Historic Windows: Restore or Replace?

[@MaudSTL]

I am renovating my 1903 full masonry home. It has 33 windows, so a high percentage of the house is glass. I have had my 121-year-old windows restored and weatherstripped. They are all glazed with putty, although not bedded in silicone as you demonstrate here. In my younger days, I burned all the old lead paint off the outside, and fortunately most sashes and casings are varnished on the interior. Abatron is your friend. I have had wooden storm windows custom made for the front elevation, but plan to build the rest of the storm windows using a Kreg tool and dowels. If you protect your prime windows with wooden storm windows, you can really extend their life. There is nothing like old growth wood.

[@BrentHull]

Amen!! Thanks for sharing.

[@kleediker1]

Your videos have been so helpful in learning how to restore the windows on my 1890 New Orleans center hall cottage, but I’m originally from Dallas. I found out you restored the windows on my Dallas high school, Woodrow, and I’m so glad Booker T has you as well! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@BrentHull]

Nice, yes, loving those projects. Thx.

[@lizzapaolia959]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise. It would be nice to see a few large window companies to follow your lead. Besides vinyl windows being unattractive, improper installment is a huge issue. The installer's use the wrong spray foam causing the window frames to bulge. The money they charge to install the vinyl windows is unbelievable. 95 percent are installed improperly. We've noticed all types of improper installment. Happy Easter too you and your family 🙏. God bless 🙏

[@BrentHull]

Thanks and Happy Easter.

[@janderson8401]

I recall reading in either Fine Home Building or Journal of Light Construction that the energy savings from replacing single glazed windows with insulated glass windows were so small that it would take twenty years to recoup the expence.

[@pcatful]

A Brent is fond of pointing out, the area of windows in most houses is small in proportion to the total envelope area and it's very unlikely that window energy savings will be what manufacturers like to tell you. What we need is more people versed in refurbishing old windows.

[@BrentHull]

My research says 40-120 years. Its redunkulous

[@MaudSTL]

A number of years ago, a study called “Measured Winter Performance of Storm Windows” showed that properly tuned and weatherstripped historic windows combined with storm windows rival vinyl replacement windows with insulated glass in energy efficiency.

[@beverlyboys73]

Love your passion and content. I restored all 37 windows on my 1916 craftsman. Got pretty good at glazing. I found bondo to be a pretty good wood filler that lasts.

[@BrentHull]

Well done! Thx for sharing.

[@SpanishEclectic]

Such good information! Homeowners need to hear something besides what window salespeople are telling them. Sadly, my 1931 house has metal windows from the 1970s, so we'll have to do a replacement. With the special curved sashes, and multi-lite diamond panels, restoration is the way to go if at all possible. Your shop is amazing; it's exciting to see such a professional process devoted to restoration.

[@BrentHull]

Thanks for watching.

[@flybyav8tor]

Yall have to restore them. We bought a 1850s farm house in VA and the previous owners got rid of all the original fabric including windows. We got some 1830s 9/6 original everything that we fully restored. Wavy glass in an old house in the morning is magical.

[@BrentHull]

Agreed! 100% Thx.

[@nonamuss9991]

Good luck finding someone to restore them! Called and called. Everyone just wants to replace!

[@BrentHull]

It can be hard, but its worth it.

[@andrewschafer8986]

It is for sure a specialty trade. And you have to be willing to incur the high cost of restoration. If you think 1200-2500$ is expensive for a new window. You can’t afford to restore historic windows. Brent knows this.

[@theplaceiputmyprojects5498]

It's cheaper than replacement where I am, though I'm lucky to have a great local craftsman.

[@vickynoname9860]

​@@andrewschafer8986Currently doing it ourselves.

[@TomNeedell]

I bought my 1890's Victorian in Buffalo specifically because most of the original windows were present. Including all stained glass and leaded windows. The light refractions from the wavy glass and the morning sun through the stained glass are magnificent. I shudder to think that this house would've lost all that if some flipper got to it before me.

[@BrentHull]

100% Thanks for sharing.

[@eh_bailey]

Brent, I love the preservation and I have gained much more appreciation for these windows from your videos. Question: When you have historic windows like this, is it okay to have 2x pane storms or is that a no-no from your view? I am thinking about options to have best of both worlds for thermal/sound as well as historical value. It seems like the storm would extend the life of the window, and I am trying to do more than single pane because of highway noise.

[@BrentHull]

Watch my other window videos. I address that very issue. Thx.

[@ladydiana2905]

Fantastic content. Thanks for making these videos!

[@BrentHull]

Glad you like them! Thx for watching.

[@billk8780]

Brent, Granted your caustic dip gets rid of 95+% of the old paint. However, please be mindful of lead-bearing paints and use appropriate respiratory protection. Great video, once again!

[@lizzapaolia959]

Excellent advice 🙏

[@BrentHull]

Noted. Thanks.

[@mothanwrdz]

Would the lead not have been left in the tub with the paint?

[@mikefisher474]

I wish everyone understood this. I live in a historic district full of 1920-1930 tudors and the houses with vinyl replacements (even though not allowed) just look horrible. 90% of the windows in my neighborhood are steel (Detroit made Fenestra) which are restored pretty much the same way (no wood rot!). A major downside is they are harder for DIYers as the weight is super heavy and really makes it necessary to do while still in place (third floor windows are no fun). Companies charge thousands and thousands per window to take them out and restore them. It will take me 5+ years to re-do all of mine, but the only cost (besides my time) will be putty and paint :)

[@BrentHull]

Awesome. Good luck.

[@debluetailfly]

Ripping the old windows out of a house (or other building) is like tearing the sol out of a house. I lose interest in a house once the windows have been replaced.

[@BrentHull]

Agreed! 100%

[@Timmakesmusic]

Fascinating video and great advice! Keeping original windows in historic buildings where possible is definitely the way to go. We recently had the original Victorian sash windows in our apartment building restored. They'd been badly neglected for decades but were still in good enough shape that they could be restored, and with a bit of care they should be good for another 100+ years. They have gorgeous stained glass in them too which still looks beautiful after over a century. I work in an expensive modern building that's not even 15 years old. The windows are already falling out and they're having to replace huge sections of them at great cost. It's crazy. I know it's a cliché, but they don't make things like they used to!

[@BrentHull]

Word!! Thx.

[@tylergillihan6307]

My vintage Red Devil glazing point driver is priceless to me. I'm sure yall have some of them around the shop?

[@BrentHull]

100% although if you use a sealant you don't need as many glazing points. Thx.

[@ryansoo4000]

Hi Brent, great video! At minute 1:35 you show a window frame that has rot in the lower left corner that has actually created a large hole in the bottom sash. Could the damage in this one corner have been caused by design conditions around the window (poor flashing, rain splash-back from a nearby porch roof, minimal roof overhangs, etc) rather than the quality of the wood itself? If so, do you alter the way you rebuild the window frame in any way to compensate for a more “exposed” location on the house?

[@BrentHull]

That window was a replacement window that is about 10 years old. They used the wrong wood and thus is failing. To your question, yes I would alter the design to accommodate something like that. Thx.

[@Sylvainhomeimprove]

It's amazing how well new window marketing as worked. People think its 100% return on investment

[@BrentHull]

I know! Its the biggest lie going.

[@evanasher9035]

Hey Brett! I am in the process of renovation a 1915 Colonial with 47 windows! We are keeping and restoring all of them. I am curious about one of your points related to the sealant during the glass setting. Based on the books I have ready they recommend a small bead of glazing to set the glass. then you do the full glazing on out the outside. What are your thoughts on sealant vs glazing for the initial setting portion of the process?

[@BrentHull]

Thanks. Both are good. My problem with glazing is how hard it gets after time. When it is hard it allows in air flow and sometimes water. It is a small detail but I think a good sealant like lexel from Sashco is best.

[@rodeopenguin]

What is your formula for the lye bath? I need to refinish and reglaze a few windows in my 1906 Virginia house.

[@BrentHull]

I'll check with my guys.

[@robyarrow9690]

I had the privilege of working on the windows at Salubria in culpeper Virginia. It’s a 1757 home that was remodeled in the late 1870’s. It still retains it 1870’s windows. There was stabilization work performed after the Virginia earthquake in 2011 as well as chimney rebuilds. My son and I worked on the windows fixing and reglazing them. While some work was performed in the 1950s the owner of the time ran out of money and abandoned project partway through. The window should be very little signs of rot blazing head failed. So all we had to do is pull the pain of glass from the sash, pull out the old putty, sand, prime and reglaze, and the windows have functioned as new since.

[@BrentHull]

Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

[@flybyav8tor]

Awesome! I live just outside Warrenton! My wifes uncle has bans full of old material in culpeper if you ever need original material for a project.

[@robyarrow9690]

@@BrentHull the fun part is the house has never been restored so it retains all of the original architecture joinery. As well as one of the closet doors upstairs has the original 1750s paint on it. any good part about the earthquake taking off the chimneys was there able to document how the roof and chimney connection was originally made. They found that the the pine shakes were just pressed into the mortar joint between the bricks. Remnants of the original roof still remain in the border, as well as original shakes the had fallen into the attic, which was inaccessible until they had a cut an opening to access the attic to assess the damage to the roof from the chimneys falling on it. They were able to do dendroconology on the ridge beam to get an exact felling date

[@jrholliday7]

Hey Brent, awesome video. I’m curious what your thoughts are when it comes to these original historic windows and their energy efficiency? Obviously we all would like to preserve the windows, but they’re certainly much less efficient when it comes to thermal performance. Are there any strategies to add a gas layer or additional panes to increase thermal efficiency?

[@BrentHull]

You need to watch my video on "Why to save historic windows" it explains the math and challenges of efficiency. Windows only account for about 10% of the energy loss in historic buildings. There are better ways to make our houses efficient. Thx.

[@jacobwysopal5127]

Does the lie solution get rid of the haze that happens at the bottom edge of the glass. I submerged my glass in ammonia for 24 hrs and everything but that haze will rub right off. I could gave used this video 2 years ago! I just finished restoring 48 windows in my house this past December. You did a realky nice job of hitting the biggest challenges in restoring windows. Keep up the great work!

[@BrentHull]

Thanks for sharing. Yes it has for us.

[@KellyGilchrest]

I have an 1820 house that I am attempting to restore the original windows. 8 over 12. My question is if I restore them, how do I take into account the 1/4in gap between the top sash and lower sash? Also the muttons seem to be dry rotted and have shrunk (?) Would I just recreate these? Or build them up with bondo?

[@BrentHull]

Kind of depends. The sash may need to be rebuilt. If the windows are original are the very thing? 1" thick? Old windows didn't always have a checkrail and you may need to build one in. Good luck.

[@phatman808]

Do you find it better to restore or replace the frames? We're replacing our godawful failing vinyl windows with double hung windows that I salvaged from an 1880s era farmhouse demo, and it's not clear if I should build new frames (with old growth fir or something similar) to use with the sashes, or use the existing frames I pulled with the sashes which are in good shape. No serious joinery work needed to build new frames but the parts seem finicky to assemble.

[@BrentHull]

If you could get the frames as well, I would. It will save time and the old growth wood is great. Good luck.

[@cborecky]

Would the lye tank work to strip doors and trim (maybe more like a lye gutter)? I've seen soooo many historic houses in my area where the PO's at some point slathered white paint all over the old stained hardwood trim and doors and I've been trying to figure out a way to get the paint off and restore them to stain-able quality. If you've figured out the process it could be a breakthrough. What's your mixture ratio?

[@BrentHull]

The only challenge with Lye is some early doors have veneers and the lye may cause the veneers to lift. You can try some. Good luck.

[@cborecky]

@@BrentHull Does soaking the wood this way not cause it to warp?

[@MOUTHonesixtyseven]

What do you do with all that caustic soda? Does a company pick it up and about how long do you keep it before refresh? This is fascinating and something that is prevented me from addressing more windows at my house is the painstaking task of stripping.

[@BrentHull]

Caustic soda is not harmful and can be diluted with water and dumped. We have kept our current batch of 6mos. Good luck.

[@SymphonicBrandon]

I get that you've removed the sashes for restoration but have you removed the window frames or have you left them installed and will be doing some restoration for them in place? I would almost think it may be easier to remove and restore those in a shop environment too.

[@BrentHull]

Frames are left in place. It would be very invasive to remove the frames, masonry, interior trim, it is not too hard to repair the frames in the field. Thx

[@SymphonicBrandon]

@@BrentHull interesting, thanks for the response! The brick framed Victorian homes I'm used to doing this work on have the biggest problems with the frames. The sashes can be in quite good condition while the sills and bottom of the weight pockets are completely rotted out.

[@mothanwrdz]

Brent, I’m surprised that you do not use traditional linseed oil based paints on your historic wood restoration projects like windows and doors. Is there a reason for this?

[@BrentHull]

Most often it is not used because the architects have not specified it. I hope to learn more about linseed paints in the coming months.

[@wonderwoman4875]

Ohhh you all have made it hard for me. I was considering replacing the windows because I have 2 sets of wood frame outside windows-one glass, one screen. I have to pull them out each season and the glass set is really heavy and I’m no spring chicken. Luckily, there are only a few windows. I have never seen a house with windows like this. All the other historic houses around me have had all the windows replaced. Does anyone know what my windows are called? For reference my home is located in Cleveland OH and it was built in 1872.

[@BrentHull]

Nice, you have historic storms and screens. They were always meant to be changed out by season. You are lucky and have very long lasting windows.

[@Glen-d8r]

Can you give me a idea what price you would sell my window for or buy even please sir?

[@BrentHull]

?? We don't buy windows. Not sure I follow.

[@eric_on_youtube]

Why not paint while in the shop?

[@BrentHull]

Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Depends on the job. Sometimes, its easier to get a quality finish in the field.

[@ltandrepants]

Restore!!!!!!

[@BrentHull]

Amen!

[@mpers]

But wouldn’t this process cost more than buying new wooden windows?

[@BrentHull]

No, it doesn't.

[@billhavrilla7479]

Glazing rabbits were never painted, I restore historic windows for my business and we just coat the rabbits with linseed oil then imbed the glass into linseed based putty like it was done historically. Why veer off from traditional ways to use cheap silicon? All that work just to use a shortcut.

[@debluetailfly]

Except you gotta get good linseed oil. Most comes from Sweden. The hardware store linseed oil is improperly prepared and horrible!

[@BrentHull]

Noted, but that putty will grow rock hard in a few years. THis then allows air and water in. Lexel will hold strong and not get brittle. Thx.

[@billhavrilla7479]

I get that, I’m older and set in my ways and get nervous trusting new products. Sarco putty is all I’ve ever used. I do know that putty last a g long time. I still use sash planes from the 1800’s to remake any bad rail or stile, mutton or mullion. Never power tools. All repairs are done on site. Remember you just said the putty will let you know when it’s time to start doing repairs.