History is a Weapon 2 w/ Matt Christman: Why There's no Labor Party in the US

[@DNorbs7]

Love listening to Christman on basically any topic. Great talk. 👍

[@ryandenis7667]

man as someone not as educated as these two they make it easy to understand while giving knowledgeable info. FEEL BETTER MATT

[@pranays]

Empire creates artificial scarcity to gain cheap labour and soldiers through poverty and desperation. India, Scotland and Ireland have not had famines since the fall of the British Empire. The empire was full of Scottish, Indian and Irish troops and labour. During every famine in the British Raj, India was producing more food than any other nation and the food was shipped out of the ports while the locals starved. Also in Scotland and Ireland the forced over production of a single crop left them vulnerable to mass crop failures. similar to what happens in the sugar colonies like Puerto Rico and Fiji today.

[@pranays]

Great episode!

[@BeyondFunction1]

Famines are rarely the result of natural scarcity. They are not about lack of food, but rather lack of *access* to food.

[@refoliation]

Yo Jaimie pull up that chart about 18th century nail prices

[@Confucius_76]

that would be a boring episode. the problem with socialism is that the details are fucking boring and so are left to technocratic elites to work out

[@TheJonnyEnglish]

@@Confucius_76 anything that has to do with running the economics of a country is boring. Whether fascist or communist there's still balance sheets and cash flows.

[@fishingsouthwestflorida1586]

This was great more christman talks are needed in 2023

[@mobybongo]

I'm here from a Bad Faith podcast on Jan. 25, 2021 and I liked what Sean KB had to say - so I searched and found that he had a conversation with Matt Christman (and I'm a big Cushvlog fan) - I have to say, I've heard some great interviews with Christman and "Useful Idiots" and Katie Halper, etc., however, in THIS interview with Sean KB, they are clearly very comfortable with one another and so the ideas flow very freely - EXCELLENT WORK - thank you!

[@HFWoP]

1:13:36 Not acid...cancer. Matt was very on point by mentioning integration. Like cancer, capitalism co-opts its surroundings into itself. The landscape is not destroyed by it, the landscape BECOMES it.

[@simetry6477]

Certainly like the Jamesonian plea to imagine a future, along with strategy and tactics to get there. To replace neoliberalism without falling prey to nationalist, isolationist, techno-imperialism.

[@matthewdavis3014]

Outstanding work fellas

[@gg2fan]

This is fucking excellent and deserves far more views, amazing work

[@TerantQ]

I love how they're thinking about Hell on Earth in the feudalism section here 4 years before making it

[@tigerstyle4505]

The US had an incredible labor struggle that was extremely violent and revolutionary. It was a beautiful example of how Marxists, anarchists (there was little to no difference then as anarchists joined C/SP's and were Marxists technically anyway and Marxists were more focused on direct action and organizing and they largely both advocated the same tactics) and even less radical elements could function as a unit and effect real change. From what I can tell all ended with the rise of the USSR (which caused rifts and gave reactionaries an example to point at), the US socialist and communist parties adopting Leninism, aligning themselves with the Soviet Union long after many had abandoned hope for the revolution and purging the members who didn't tow the line which is probably the single thing that caused the most fracturing and hyper sectarianism, a sustained and all consuming propaganda, misinformation, sabatoge and destruction campaign that became explicit in 1919 with the First Red Scare but that started long before and continues to today with fascistic myth building/maintenance, distraction, culture wars and class collaboration. It's amazing because the bloody and frequently brutal struggle didn't seem to be the main factor. It was sectarianism and other internal conflicts that made it to where even people of identical ideology couldn't agree on enough to function, multiple wars that drained the proletariat and lumpenproletarian classes, examples of what was happening in other parts of the world where CP's had seized power and all the conflict, starvation and violence filtered through reactionary propaganda, quality of life increasing dramatically right after a time of soaring patriotism that even caused the most ardent revolutionaries the world over made shit calls (WWII), the fear of losing said victories of the New Deal and quality of life increases, and a concerted overt and covert effort to brainwash people from birth and dismantle organs of worker power via the state, which seems highly unconstitutional. There's just so much that lead to the US worker movement dying and much of the working class and poor population taking on very reactionary views and identifying with the state and capitalism. I think Chomsky and others have documented the phenomena well in the concept of "totalitarian 'free' societies". The US culturally functions something like a cult and follows the B.I.T.E model pretty goddamn brilliantly lol. But that cultural totalitarianism, the dominant realism and ideological shift played and undeniably massive role in both the decline of class struggle and party politics. But as far as why there was never a major party I guess it's largely due to the fact that the worker movement was much more focused on direct struggle and less with party politics. I think it's pretty clear that a left/worker party never would've really had a chance to begin with given the power dynamics of the US state and how city and state level was much more successful despite the odds. There have been dozens of em and they never went anywhere. If they had they'd likely be just as corrupted by their element as the European parties. This was mad interesting 👍✊👊✌

[@polywags]

Holy shit this is a great talk. Good shit bois

[@patrickholt2270]

This is something I've wondered about for years and years, the more I've learned about the extent of socialist traditions and working class militancy in US history. I'm curious you don't include Longism and Teddy Roosevelt and the Bullmoose party in this account. Where do they fit in, or don't they?

[@TheAntifada]

Good question: They fit more into the big-P movements of Populism and Progressivism, with the social bases being independent farmers and middle class reformers respectively. Williams J Bryant/TR/Long were reformers in this mold and while they operated adjacent to - and sometimes overlapping on various policies with - the working class movement (represented by the Socialist Party and Knights of Labor, AFL, IWW etc) they were of a different kind with different horizons.

[@patrickholt2270]

@@TheAntifada I know there's a lot of contingency involved, like the fact that the Dems were moving the the left under Roosevelt at the same time that Long was building his anti-capitalist, class struggle, redistributionary rival party in Louisiana, so there was no way to unite his movement with most of the left to replace the Democrats nationwide the way he displaced that party there (when it was the party of segregation and landowners locally), with leftists elsewhere being sucked into Roosevelt's orbit, but it still seems like a great tragedy that Long got assassinated when he did. As for middle class reformers, they were able to contribute to the formation of socialist mass parties in Germany and Britain, in the form of the ILP, who were way to the left of the trade union funded former Liberal MPs in the Labour Representation Committee, despite being disproportionately made up of doctors, clergymen, teachers and librarians, and having strong memberships in conservative strongholds like Eastbourne, and in the form of Lasalle's utopian socialist ADAV. Indeed, the July 26th movement was overwhelmingly middle class to begin with, before Guevara and Raul Castro brokered the alliance with the Popular Socialist party once the revolutionary war was under way, practising traditional Latin American strongman politics with a Blanquist strategy. So I don't see a hard boundary on class lines when the ideological and policy goals are congruent. But in general, speaking as one myself, unless your middle class smooth-talkers are self-conscious and consistent class traitors to their own class, like Tony Benn was, they can't be trusted.

[@deanc9453]

+

[@frankmaybury5292]

My brother had a good number of those Civil War cards growing up.

[@Xxx_EvilSmurf_xxX]

I think Pinkertons has a heavy hand in blame.

[@Akutabai5]

I think Matt just made it clear that Civil War reenactment nerds are history cosplayers. Matt found his anime in the Civil War

[@coreygolphenee9633]

At least his anime taught him about a place where he actually lives

[@steampunkgeneration]

@@coreygolphenee9633 Wisconsin?

[@gilbertcarter2375]

Matt had a panini prism Robert E Lee rookie card

[@Mortimer13]

Love this discussion. Could you do something to your mic setup or your levels? It's really hard to listen to this podcast you two constantly switching from being super loud to super quiet because you moved your face away from the mic.

[@simetry6477]

I hate rogan but i would listen to it if felix is on.

[@Confucius_76]

that's because you probably have very narrow interests. i would definitely watch felix on rogan tho

[@simetry6477]

@@Confucius_76 Really I am not narrow in my interests. I think joe plays the false neutrality game, and doesn't have the balls to have an opinion while making balls just a game of endurance to pain and pain infliction. Balls. Those things there only to impregnate.

[@simetry6477]

@@Confucius_76 To be honest I just watched a Rollins interview there. I also am conflicted about Rollins.

[@simetry6477]

@@Confucius_76 balls. Edited go fuck yourself and pat your back on lifts as people go starving. Also listen to rebel music kzbin.info/www/bejne/ani8dIicfsyrj7M

[@Confucius_76]

the fuck you talking about? that song sucked btw

[@michaelm.3694]

I would like to apologize for my previous comment. I just took way too much cbd and i'm out of my head. That's no excuse though, and I will recommit to self work. The insurance company I work for has a great mindfulness program and I will seriously look into it. thanks

[@michaelm.3694]

I'd like to apologize again for not continuing to listen to the podcast where they discuss that. I've been up on kratom for two days and am looking for an app that can help me

[@TheAntifada]

sounds like you should download kratomr from the app store

[@rrrrrrrachel]

Who's 'the boss' they reference as the opening music fades in? I can't make it out

[@Sorrac0001]

Bruce Springsteen

[@rrrrrrrachel]

@@Sorrac0001 ah ty!

[@zed6095]

Chapo in da house!

[@ebbtides]

This rocks

[@MrKYT-gb8gs]

Hey what's the episode where they talk about 70s movies? What one was interesting.

[@08Biatch]

episode 17 with Matt Christman and Virgil Texas. Movie is called Blue Collar

[@MrKYT-gb8gs]

@@08Biatch nice. Just listened to it yesterday thanks

[@mrpieceofwork]

@1:22:00 That's called "Skynet"... not a good idea.

[@michaelscomicscorner2584]

What book is Matt is talking about from 1906 at around 45:00?

[@tomrobbins5242]

A mystery? Violence

[@tomrobbins5242]

And white supremacy

[@jaxw1453]

o7

[@joachimmacdonald2702]

The uk Labour Party is no longer a workers party.

[@rosaluxemburg1670]

💜💜💜💜💜💜💜😷✊

[@minivergur]

o7