History Primer 151: US Colt 1877 Documentary

Special Thanks to Kurt House and Russ Withem for access to their research notes and Daniel Michael, Curator of the Cody Firearms Museum, for his assistance!
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
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Additional reading:
candrsenal.com...
Colt’s Double Action Revolver Model of 1878
Don Wilkerson
A study of Colt’s New Army and Navy Pattern Double action Revolvers 1889 to 1908
Robert Best
The 1877 Colt Double Action Revolver
Ed Buffaloe
Standard Catalog of Colt Firearms
James Tarr
Colt firearms from 1836
James E. Serven
Revolvers of the British Services 1854-1954
WHJ Chamberlain & AWF Taylerson
Canadian Military Handguns 1855 - 1985
Clive Law
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animations by Bruno!
/ @baanimations3689
Snail Mail/Contact us at:
candrsenal.com...

[@rodrigodepierola]

Man, I've watched "telenovelas" with less complicated drama than the Colt-baby one.

[@danielkorladis7869]

I'd watch that telenovela

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

Sam Colt’s baby mama drama was just wild.

[@smackarel7]

Bruno deserves some extra praise for that animation because holy crap is it complicated.

[@444mopar]

Yes and as the owner of an 1877 I was very pleased the animation was depicted correctly. The only part they didn't really touch on is the top of the trigger has a roller on the top which interacts with the flat spring that tensions the trigger. That roller tends to wear flat over time causing the trigger not to reset when released.

[@gunsbeersmemes]

My Great Uncle Verson Pickett, out of Jacksonville Florida, carried his personal Colt Thunderer, in .41 Long Colt, in the Spanish American war. I have it, and the hand sewn, hand stained dark blue canvas cartridge satchel, my Great Great Grandmother made him, since he had to bring his own ammunition with him.

[@genericnpc6379]

thats awesome, you ever shoot it?

[@1972glm]

Do a short video on it. would love to see it and the extra accoutrements

[@dukefanshawe6815]

Amazing!!

[@jakeroberts7435]

Thats a keeper, I've got one also, my Great grandfather was a Major in Cuba, he was in the Ohio National Gaurd, we've got his 30/40 Krag. My brother has it, its supposed to pass down to my son.

[@Lemonjellow]

My Great Grandfather served in the Spanish American War also. He was a volunteer out of Indiana. He never made it to Cuba though. Not enough boats and by the time they had boats the war was over. He spent most of his war fighting malaria in Florida.

[@johncoffin9354]

There seems to be a whole category out there: Popular guns with bad reputations. Unpopular guns with good reputations. The 'Lightning' seems to fit both.

[@classifiedad1]

You really have to wonder about how bad the competition was for this to be as popular as it was.

[@Charon-5582]

I am really loving these revolver videos. It helps that these are basically unregulated here in canada because they are antiques and not many people own them... it is seriously a breath of fresh air though not having to do the pistol transfer stuff.

[@JerryEricsson]

Over the years that I carried a sidearm as part of my job in law enforcement, I often carried a Colt. My first firearm purchase was a Colt Trooper Mk IV. She was a fairly good gun, however she let me down when I was in the police academy and I had to finish with a loaner M$P Smith as the trigger broke. I sent it to Colt and it was repaired with a wonderful trigger job to boot and the gun served me for nearly 12 years at which time I switched to Semi-auto. For off duty, I had a Colt Diamond Back .38 which was one of the best wheel guns I ever had for accuracy and smooth action, I loved it. I owned several M1911A1's a couple were Colt, one was mil surplus and now I have a little Citadel for a carry gun. I also had many Star BM BMK and PD models and an original Colt AR-15 shorty that I carried in the squad car when we were called to road blocks, or if I was called out for armed entry to homes or buildings. It replaced the mini 14's that I had over the years, but I have to admit, I did like the action on the mini 14s better even though I carried both a M1911A1 and M-16 in Vietnam depending on if I humped a AN/PRC 77 radio or not. Now I still have the old Astra DA 45ACP that I carried for the last several years on the PD, I liked the double stacked magazines and always wanted to carry a .45 because I believed in the round and always heard guys bragging that their 9mm would expand to almost a .45, my reply was "Mind starts at a .45 and if she expands all the better!

[@albaneincowboy183]

Oh I wish I knew you were working on the 1877. My father currently has 4 in his collection and probably has repaired a large number in his life time. I have plans to go to Hartford this summer and start my research, while he goes to Cody and look at what they have in their collection.

[@TheWerewolfdark]

apparently people who shoot 38 long or short colt like to use winchester 148gr hollow base wadcutters, either the smokeless 38spl loads or using the bullets to load their own. You'd have to research it further but I hope it's of help.

[@Lisztomaniac1022]

I own a reproduction of the thunderer by cimmaron specifically the nickel plated with faux ivory grips or as Cimmaron calls it their "Doc Holliday Model". I'm not too big on blingy firearms but after I saw Tombstone in theaters. I loved doc Holliday from that movie and his shining revolvers. And when Cimmaron came out with it I HAD to get it. It's one of my jewels in my collection.

[@RonJohn63]

42:25 The amount of smoke shooting out the side is amazing (and horrifying). 1:14:14 Gold Five: "Stay on target."

[@RichardGoth]

18:00 Thanks for the ergonomic explanation of why the Webley Mk I and VI are better than the Marks II, II, and IV. A great exploration of an under-rated firearm!

[@brian8152]

I'd love to see an episode on the Smith and Wesson .32/.38 top break revolvers

[@adaw2d3222]

von Oppen sounds like an invaluable employee for Colt.

[@Ben_not_10]

I’ve also noticed even modern S&Ws have the issue of if you don’t fully release the trigger you can just index the cylinder without cocking the hammer

[@timvaccaro8350]

They could have called it the Platypus, given its unique combined SAA/God-knows-what look. I think I need one.

[@jwv5540]

I never knew colt made a double action black powder wheel gun. thanks man

[@xgford94]

MIKE BELIVEAU just did a video on 38 LC , great timing

[@billybrown3036]

Awesome as always

[@ashleysmith3106]

You need T shirts printed with Othias's appropriately mentioned guns with "Institutional Momentum" beneath !

[@alexhemsath6235]

This week, on The Real Gunsmiths of Hartford….

[@SlickSixguns]

Crazy colt story

[@EDSKaR]

52:44 Mae learns to dual wield.

[@tenofprime]

Been sick for 2 weeks and what a nice thing to find on my return to normal brain working (I tried watching the early access version last week but my brain was to fogged to follow it.) The most entertaining bit was the Colt family drama, I think he might be an honorary European royal with that many scandalous events.

[@aaronporebski9502]

I also use a double plum shape with an extendible tip

[@aaronporebski9502]

(my sincere apologies and thankyou to the C&Rsenal team for another high quality, informative and entertaining production)

[@davidbrennan660]

Classic child’s cowboy pistol minus silvering and over the top cast engraving.

[@BMLA00]

Nice, love revolver’s. Hope you guys can do a video on the Mauser zig zag one day!

[@Texas_Red_01]

52:50. Mae sets new standards for "dual wielding". :-) And looks so cute while doing it!! Hahahaha! :-)

[@bradfordperry5997]

oss (as in "floss") -we-go. I always die a little inside when I hear non NY folk pronounce our place names. lol

[@davidbrennan660]

Old Wheel guns interest me strangely....

[@LewisSkeeter]

It is a seriously sexy revolver.

[@patrickwentz8413]

Now that we have that charming little gun taken care of can we do the Model 1911 please???????????

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

He has said he’s spacing out the episodes leading up to the 1911 because he doesn’t have loaners lined up for the last few prototypes. I’m guessing it’s still months away.

[@johnalogue9832]

Little did I know *Colt* history was more dramatic than most *cult* history...

[@alejandroramosrios4217]

Colt m1878 fronter

[@davidjernigan8161]

I don't know that it is American exceptionalism; Americans used a lot of firearms, so with the large demand there was a lot of opportunity to make a dollar. This let a lot of people to put forward new developments of which the best usually succeeded.

[@johnkilcer]

Great video guys. But its pronounced (Oss-we-go) by the locals.

[@potatosurfing6779]

i love you mae ; )

[@colbunkmust]

It's almost like Colt and Berdan were having a competition to see who could be the slimiest dude in the gun industry.

[@BogeyTheBear]

19th Century industrial magnates were hardly known to be paragons of integrity and virtue. The _weapon_ producers among them were never going to be the exceptions to that fact.

[@tenofprime]

What is scary: this is just the stuff we know or are pretty sure they did. How many bodies did they succeed at hiding?

[@rotwang2000]

I've had bosses who considered giving up your life, health and free time was the absolute minimum effort in a job. I had one or two who had that longing look in their eyes hoping that I would finally admit to them I wouldn't require them to pay me any further, but that I would pay for the honor of working myself to an early grave for their pleasure.

[@colbunkmust]

@@BogeyTheBear But in the case of Berdan and Colt, it isn't their business actions that make them slimy.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

2022: *Laughs in modern gun industry*

[@vicarus2728]

Only Othias could explain the importance and advantages of certain types of grips for different actions by bringing a damn saw.

[@HB-622A]

I'm disappointed that when Mae was giving her opinion on the saw's grip she never specified whether she'd bring it into the Great War.

[@jessebianchi2631]

maybe an episode on that saw? it looks like it has a story to tell.

[@nerdlydood]

an antique one no less...

[@catfish552]

Yeah, great way to show both why they called it a "saw-type" grip, and why it's good for the gun.

[@bubbajones5905]

Saw handle pistol stocks date back to the flintlock era, and are fairly common on percussion muzzle loading pistols.

[@Mjdeben]

Glad to see that not listening to customers is a proud Colt tradition going back to the 1870's

[@Job781]

Customers are always wrong.

[@arya31ful]

@@Job781 "We are the ones making your stuff, of course we know way better than you." Colt, or maybe HK

[@AlexKS1992]

The only customers that Colt (and HK) care about is the government. They don’t care for us peasants.

[@rodan2852]

Ahh what do they know?

[@Grimmtoof]

That story about Colt’s wife/mistress was crazy! I’ve said it before but I’d love to see a few episodes where you just go through the stories of things you can only just touch one normally. Like the full history of an arms company/inventor or the details of a war.

[@StrangelyBrownNo1]

Oh mate that’s my dream too - a full background of some of these characters would be incredible.

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

SHHHH! Let everyone think they're junk so I can have a fighting chance at getting one for a decent price.

[@AM-hf9kk]

That animation really makes me wonder about anyone that says revolvers can't fail... Seems to have even more fiddly moving parts than any semi-auto.

[@SlavicCelery]

Revolvers can absolutely fail. So can Glocks. Anyone maintaining that anything will never have any issues, is full of it.

[@jacobmccandles1767]

I have had both revolvers and Glocks fail.

[@TheRealWilliamWhite]

The difference IME is when a Glock fails you can remedy it in the moment, Revolvers not so much.

[@kalebbrown93]

Revolvers when designed well usually do not fail. But when they fail you might as well throw it away if you’re in a gun fight

[@randymagnum143]

@@TheRealWilliamWhite you can replace a broken extractor or striker in a moment?

[@scipio10000]

Who needs soap opera when we can read about Samuel Colt and Hiram Maxim?

[@seymoarsalvage]

1:10:05 as someone who has carried a 2nd gen Colt SAA in 45lc and hates double action, and has never even seen or heard of most of the guns y'all cover until I subbed, I can assure people that y'all do NOT do American exceptionalism 😂

[@wesleygay8918]

As someone that has always loved classic American revolvers, this show has done a great job of making me want to expand my collection.

[@ryanrosenblum2552]

I can only say to reach out to Mike Beliveau that man is a walking, talking encyclopedia on the 38 long colt and other guns of the old west

[@jimwestberg4771]

My god i want SOMEONE to make a modern repro of these....

[@Tornado1861]

Diamondback Firearms recently came out with a scaled down, double action, 22LR version of a SAA. It sort of looks like one, if they would make an appropriate birds-head grip.

[@jimwestberg4771]

@@Tornado1861 that's a step in the right direction, but I need me one in 38 special.

[@josephknaak9034]

I think the new Henry revolver with the birds head has a similar look but has a swing out cylinder.

[@thomasmorgan9768]

Oh thank God, that x-ray diagram is going to be so useful. I've been trying to fix mine for months.

[@beargillium2369]

Gunsmiths exist for a reason, don't be the next Baldwin.

[@thomasmorgan9768]

@@beargillium2369 LMAO you think I've got that kind of money? Joke's on you, it works now.

[@beargillium2369]

@@thomasmorgan9768 so you have the money to buy the gun but not to have it serviced... Joke's not really on me, that's your poor decision I could gaf

[@beargillium2369]

@@thomasmorgan9768 ps "that kind of money" ?? How much do you think gunsmiths charge? 😂

[@beargillium2369]

@@thomasmorgan9768 so do you have an actual old original Colt gun or some trash replica you bought from a yard sale for $59¿ 🙄

[@SonOfTheDawn515]

22:52 so Colt has always lagged behind, made horrible sales and design decisions and generally upset their followers. Nothing new under the sun, huh?

[@TheEvilmooseofdoom]

Not at all.

[@danschneider9921]

I will be honest here- after being teased with a couple episodes on Colt autos, in the hopes of getting to the much anticipated 1911 episode, I was prepared for another interesting, but admittedly less "gripping and sexy" weird English revolver installment. But this, well I will take this with a big 'ol smile....

[@sheldonm9840]

As a man whos favorite gun is a 1877 lightning, this is a long awaited and much appreciated episode thank you c&rsenal

[@birdkiller776]

Idk how he can bring out a handsaw and NOT light box it. Frankly I’m disappointed…

[@gungriffen]

I wish Uberti or Pietta made these. Even if it used a more modern lockwork system and chambered in 38 Special.

[@joelmclamore1898]

I agree,an a Webley too.😊

[@TheWalterKurtz]

I'm 63 years old and since adolescents I've thought the '77 and '78 were just flimsy half hearted attempts at modernity. I didn't know the military of the empire that the sun never set on and Sam Colt's "nephew" were involved in the plot. This is the makings of a mini-series. Only the BBC could do it justice.

[@elliottsmith7855]

elliott smith How about a show on the Colt Bisley model? Love the integration of the history of the gun itself and !its times

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

I came for the guns. Left with a Maury DNA show.... 🤔 "Sam Colt, the tests are in..... You are_____."

[@BumroyV2]

God, I love the videos that delve into stories of their designers. It's history and celebrity gossip all in one.

[@pinnedthrottle7690]

If I remember correctly, the thunderer was popular with Billy the Kid and Doc Holiday.

[@TheEvilmooseofdoom]

Yup, they got mentioned. :)

[@scribblerjohn1]

The story has it that Bonney had very small hands (hence his dexterity with slipping out of handcuffs) and had difficulty getting his thumb over the hammer spur of a SAA. With the Thunderer, all he needed to do was pull the trigger.

[@Primarch359]

Colt's life is peak crazy dude.

[@ribbit876]

Every time I go looking for one of those the prices are crazy. I can't imagine what they are going to be like now . Good episode

[@fasdaVT]

Remember a single dollar a month is enough

[@claytonalexander9105]

i wonder how the Lightning Frame size compares to the 1862 Pocket/Police. It may be the solution to Birdshead on smaller Pockets frame's.

[@danishpuma]

Mae ready for the Victorian zombie apocalypse with that gun and saw combo!

[@itatane]

Considering William B. Franklin's war time performance, it's not surprising that he was a little slow on the uptake and that his arguments were... Lackluster.

[@scriptonite2182]

Oh I wish someone would make this in 327 Fed. Hay Ruger !

[@williamlloyd3769]

Modern society doesn’t have anything on historical family scandal. What a story!

[@josephknaak9034]

Well Hunter Biden is a pretty messed up story

[@hockeytownluv2012]

Webley's are better... come at me bro

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

You mean like the RIC? Or what? The military top breaks came after this

[@Roflcopter4b]

Of course they are? They're a much later design.

[@nothim7321]

I should hope so.

[@hockeytownluv2012]

This was in Europe competing with Webley designs

[@joakimblomqvist7229]

I'm totally sold on this channel! Man, that's an extensive chunk of history and tech! Mae adds so much doing the shooting experience part and reflections on that! Great work, you guys. Never stop!

[@maxswain69]

The Colt drama was movie quality and gun porn very entertaining!

[@randalljeffs7272]

This was a particularly great primer. Wearing my T-shirt with pride. Thanks!

[@Tadicuslegion78]

I'll sing you a true song of Billy the Kid I'll sing of some desperate deeds that he did 'Way out in New Mexico long long ago When a man's only chance was his own forty-four When Billy the Kid was a very young lad In old Silver City he went to the bad 'Way out in the West with a gun in his hand At the age of twelve years he did kill his first man

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

I love these revolvers. Thanks for doing this video. I love the animation very helpful on its workings.

[@swj719]

Othias: "a reliable man stopper" Mae: "*sounds*" Was I the only one that was... Concerned by this? 😂

[@Thunderous117]

Anything with sam colt is always a trip 😅

[@greyareaRK1]

So, Colt had to up their game to compete in the UK, which forced them to produce a better product that sold well in the US.

[@DBxCooper]

Well, it’s been quite a while since this video came out. But I finally got my .41. I’m a Billy the kid fanatic. Mine is a 2 1/2” shopkeeper model. It’s ser# is 31108. That makes its manufacturing year 1881. I have a question regarding firing this guy. For the record, I may never shoot it. At most a few ceremonial shots. For god knows what reason. Anyway, the only ammo I’ve come across is smokeless. I bought it. I know the world says not to shoot smokeless in it but I figured maybe a person good at reloading can use the smokeless cartridge. Disassemble it and put black powder into it, then reassemble? I’ve never reloaded anything so maybe I’m way off thinking it’s possible?🤔. Ignorance isn’t a crime😁. Or is shooting smokeless fine? The gun is in pretty excellent condition

[@jakesamson5489]

I want a repro of these so bad. I don't even care about having a nickel quickdraw SAA unless I can go full "I have two guns, one for each of you".

[@deniskozlowski9370]

Great video. I've always been fascinated by these peices. Hopefully you'll do some additional percussion revolver videos.

[@minisforerbody]

Say what you will about the mechanism, history etc. it’s easily one of the coolest sounding pistols you’ve ever covered I think 😬

[@bhoward9378]

The Cody Firearms Museum rules. Though to be fair, it really should be called the Cody American Firearms Museum. I spent a long weekend there last summer. Be sure to visit the Cody Dug Up Firearms Museum next time you're in town.

[@danielkorladis7869]

American exceptionalism really pisses me off. I wouldn't have watched dozens of episodes of your show if I thought y'all were doing it. You've been (justifiably) harsh on a lot of decisions of American designs and also ordnance department decisions (see recurring character Gen. Crozier).

[@dennismason3740]

Dude how did you and Mae meet? If you taught algebra (i hate algebra) I'd watch it. Please do an awkward re-enactment of youse twose meeting. You'll double the views. If you taught marine biology I'd watch it. I like marine biology and no the vagueness is not lost on me.

[@armadagunshow]

Recently bought one, your video is complete and absolutely excellent

[@bwest8372]

I got a lighting, thunderer, 1873 Remington and peace maker. I wanted the Billy the kid guns

[@Guillermo90r]

Have you guys thought of doing something similar to Small Arms Primer but centred on cartridges?

[@KarltheKrazyone]

Rootn' and tootn'!? And for only a buck? Well I'll be a ding-danged plinker's uncle! But legit folks, the trials, and travails of the production of this here show puts the best of daytime tv to shame, might as well give a little to help them keep the drama to a minimum because it seems that no matter the best efforts of humans and guinea pigs, they do not make what they deserve to tell the history that needs to be preserved.

[@Disinterested1]

I really love listening to you two great episode as always and thank you for sharing best wishes

[@davidtuley5898]

Does anyone know of a good gunsmith on the west side of the states who works on the 1877 ? On ours the hammer won’t lock for half cock or single action. It does work for double action.

[@g.55centaurosimp18]

The amount of pistol oriented episodes lately is obviously laying the ground for quite a legendary gun... *Cough... 1911 Cough...*

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

What do pistols have to do with the Swiss 1911? Plus, they already did that video

[@GunFunZS]

@@TenaciousTrilobite Sir don't be coy He clearly means the Smith & Wesson model 1911 shotgun.

[@tenofprime]

I have heard every time someone pokes him over it he adds another non colt episode to the lineup

[@BogeyTheBear]

Repro _'cough'_ ssion. Dragoon!

[@88porpoise]

@@GunFunZS Personally I am excited to see Mae with the M1911 Kleinflammenwerfer.

[@KurtOnoIR]

Sweet! I just got a thunderer a couple months ago. Everything works fine but finish is bad. Waiting on that starline brass to be in stock, otherwise I gotta try to form some, that'd be my first time doing that requiring turning a rim.

[@leonstancliff7218]

As a matter of cultural history, it was very common to name ones child after the husband's brother. It was called "namesaking" and insured that the brother would take in the orphaned child of his brother in a time when many parents did not see their children grown. Wives would name their daughters after sisters, then aunts. This custom did not end until after WW1, when life expectancy improved. At that point men began naming their first son's after themselves, then following sons after brothers or grandfathers.....

[@clanceyrussell8773]

I have an 1877 .41. When loaded the cases drag on the frame keeping the cylinder from rotating. Anyone have experience with this?

[@markjutras3773]

I’ve found considerable variability in 41 colt cases. For example, you may have to try different shell holders if you change maker of brass. So you may find success if you change brand of case. Call Buffalo Arms. They probably know the ideal solution.

[@FirstmaninRome]

I sold one of these on gunbroker, but it makes me sick to say for how much, they got a good deal, and it wasn't mind I couldn't have kept the money anyway, it was 550$ and it was almost in that condition right there, but didn't really know what it was.

[@johnjunge6989]

Othias, love the shirt, compared to your normal flannel!! Ha. How long does it take you to research these episodes? And that brings me to another question, how do you remember all of the facts? Otherwise, really enjoy your videos, like Mark's, always learn something!

[@Arbiter099]

the road to 1911 took a weird detour

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

Worth it

[@Stargun-vj1uh]

I suppose they might be covering revolver history, and now specifically some early (by Great War standards) colts, to work up to some of the other colt revolvers we have seen in the Great War, so we have context for the colt branded Browning pistols that come after. I dunno though, they may have just wanted Mae to have some fun with some wheelguns.

[@metalismedicine5499]

Whatever the reason I’m fine with it. I think these kinds of guns are interesting so I enjoy episodes on them. TLDR; great video!

[@marshmower]

I have short bread stick fingers and the only things that fit my hand are something on the order of the sig 365 L or Walther p22 and I like the 1911 because thin grip and it has a short reach single action trigger.

[@mattfleming86]

Welcome to the club. I always wanted a nice sa/da pistol, so I purchased a Cz75. Had to spend several dollars on grips and a complete trigger rework to be able to fit it to my hands. It's a great pistol now but I had to contribute significantly to Cajun Gun Work's retirement plan.

[@marshmower]

@@mattfleming86 yowsa. I looked at a desert eagle one time and thought there's no way. I was only covering one side of the grip. I'd have to hold it like a squirrel

[@SonOfTheDawn515]

Laughs in long girlish fingers

[@richarddietzen3137]

Great history! Where have I been so long from your channel?

[@cattledog901]

Gotta say I'm not loving the background music.

[@ZGryphon]

Nice to see one of these in the wild! I have a Cimarron (Uberti) Thunderer, which is an oddball hybrid of an SAA and one of these--it's a .45-caliber single-action, but has the 1877 grip frame. It's one of those guns I bought simply because it was so weird, back when I had the money to buy guns simply because they were so weird. :)

[@michaelpreston2735]

Some people in holywood seem to think that these guns just go off.

[@TenaciousTrilobite]

This is a Lightning. The one in the movie was an SAA

[@3ducs]

I'm looking forward to your video on the Colt 1878. I had a chance to buy a nice nickel plated 1878 several years ago, should've.