CECILY NEVILLE Duchess of York (2). The woman who survived the Wars of the Roses/The mother of Kings

In December 1460 CECILY NEVILLE, Duchess of York was facing the greatest crisis of her life. Though now remembered as the woman who survived the Wars of the Roses, her survival came at a cost and after the Battle of Wakefield on 30 December that year, her husband (Richard, Duke of York), second son (Edmund, Earl of Rutland) and brother, Richard, Earl of Salisbury all lay dead. Her eldest son, Edward, Earl of March was about to go into battle against Owen and Jasper Tudors and Lancastrian forces of Queen Margaret of Anjou, the wife of Henry VI. Cecily meanwhile was in London, potentially facing exile or death if Edward lost. In this video from History Calling we look at what happened next and at how Cecily went from the disgraced dowager Duchess of York to the mother of Kings Edward IV and Richard III. We’ll see how she reacted to key events in the ongoing Wars, including the seizing of the crown from Henry VI by Edward; her son George, Duke of Clarence’s betrayal of his older brother; George’s execution on Edward’s orders; the brief reign of her grandson Edward V and the decision of her son Richard, Duke of Gloucester to take the crown from his nephew (which followed the disappearance of the Princes in the Tower). We’ll also look at how she reacted to the final fall of the Plantagenets, when Richard was killed at the Battle of Bosworth in 1485 and her granddaughter Elizabeth of York became the wife of Henry VII and the first Tudor queen and at the final years of her long life. Throughout, we’ll look at the many royal scandals the Duchess of York lived through, the relationship between Cecily Neville and Elizabeth Woodville, the daughter-in-law she never wanted and the personality of the woman known to history as ‘Proud Cis’. If you’ve ever wondered, what were the Wars of the Roses (or indeed what was the Cousins’ War, which was the name this conflict was originally given), Cecily’s story is an excellent entry point into this complicated saga. This is the second video in a series on the women of the Wars of the Roses.
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WHAT HAPPENED TO EDWARD V AND RICHARD DUKE OF YORK
• WHAT HAPPENED TO EDWAR...
THE LIFE OF HENRY VII (part 1)
• THE LIFE OF HENRY VII ...
THE LIFE OF HENRY VII (part 2)
• THE LIFE OF HENRY VII ...
BUY OR RENT:
Britain’s Bloody Crown Presented by Dan Jones (2016) [Documentary covering the Wars of the Roses. Historically accurate] amzn.to/2TPep8i (US LINK)
The White Queen (2013). [Depicts the story of the Wars of the Roses from Elizabeth Woodville’s point of view. Gets the broad strokes of history correct, but definitely not completely accurate] amzn.to/3dm7kBL (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/2VcbQO5 (US LINK)
The White Princess (2018). [Covers the marriage of Henry Tudor to Elizabeth of York. Again, gets the broad strokes of history correct, but definitely needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.] amzn.to/3ftrmNt (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/3C1NLdl (US LINK)
The King in the Carpark (2013). Documentary about the discovery of Richard III’s skeleton in 2012. amzn.to/3C0loMF (UK LINK)
READ MORE:
J. L. Laynesmith, Cecily Duchess of York (Bloomsbury, 2017) amzn.to/3EjW4Bp (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/33QBb4h (US LINK)
Amy Licence, Cecily Neville: Mother of Kings (Amberley, 2015) amzn.to/3ppivke (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/3FDHINu (US LINK)
Michael Hicks, The Wars of the Roses (Yale, 2012) amzn.to/33O5w3A (UK Link) or (US Link) amzn.to/3FZrZaV
Phillipa Gregory, The Red Queen (2011). Fictionalised account of the Wars of the Roses told from Lady Margaret Beaufort’s point of view. Read for fun, but definitely don’t get your history from this. amzn.to/3rgXYfz (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/2V8IQa3 (US LINK)
Phillipa Gregory, The White Queen (2011). Fictionalised account of the Wars of the Roses told from Elizabeth Woodville’s point of view. Read for fun, but definitely don’t get your history from this. amzn.to/2PlPztQ (UK LINK) OR amzn.to/37bO9YK (US LINK)
THUMBNAIL: The Carolle in the Garden, Flickr, British Library, Harley 4425, f.14v, no known copyright restrictions (detail)
NB: Links above may be affiliate links. This means if you make a purchase through one of these links, I earn a small commission. It in no way affects the price you pay.
Creative Commons licenses used see creativecommon...

[@HistoryCalling]

What do you think the highlight of Cecily’s life was? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE too.

[@English_Dawn]

Probably retiring to Berkamstead. Mentally scarred but safe. Like Icarus she had flown close to the sun but unlike Icarus got out gracefully. :-) She saw the rise and tragic denouément of the House of York. From Raby to Berkhamsted, who'd have thought it? Much obliged. :-)

[@donnicholas7552]

Very interesting conclusion of her life. I'm amazed she lived throughout all this intrigue and backstabbing happening around her. and wound up with her lands and property intact....and herself too!

[@robertdudley4017]

This remarkable lady was mother of two Kings, but she also knew loss and many deaths of her family.

[@Jason.cbr1000rr]

Not dying and avoiding arrests for b.s stuff.

[@English_Dawn]

HC. Just a piece of trivia. I think technically I am correct in this. Which female portrait is the most numerically widespread in the World? Mona Lisa? Got any ideas? It's Dame Cecily's daughter Elizabeth, Henry VII's Queen! Unlike the other three which I think are fictional her portrait is on a pack of cards. Pretty sure she is used for the Queen of Hearts, it could be the Queen of Diamonds but am pretty sure (99%) it's Hearts. Have a nice day! :-)

[@CassiBlack]

It is so refreshing to have a KZbinr do history videos with such a deeply researched subject. Going the extra mile to confirm your sources with primary sources makes my historian heart flutter! I have spent the last 2 weeks watching all of your videos and enjoyed them immensely. The amount of research you must do every week seems daunting but absolutely worth it in the end!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you so much. Not all the videos entail as much research (you might notice that after I do a longer video, the videos in the next week or two are often a bit shorter to compensate), but the Wars of the Roses are definitely pretty hard core and that's why they're not all appearing at once and will instead be spread over a few months.

[@obsessivefangirl5055]

Thank you so much for this very detailed, in depth researched biography fo Cecily. Come to think of it, literally every single woman directly involved in the Wars of the Roses, (Elizabeth Woodville, Elizabeth of York, Margaret of Anjou, Margaret Beaufort, Anne Neville, Isabel Neville) and of course Cecliy all had such fascinating lives. I suppose they are overlooked in history as they are over shadowed by the six wives and two daughters of Henry viii. Nevertheless, they deserve more credit.

[@English_Dawn]

HC mentioned a name obliquely, Margaret of York Cecily's daughter. She was in Ludlow castle and was captured by Queen Margaret along with Cecily and Cecily's youngest sons George and Richard. They were taken to Coventry and I think Kenilworth. Of all the York women Margaret was probably more "hands on" than any. Her time was yet to come. She was married to Charles the Bold the Duke of Burgundy, the last Duke of Burgundy. The Duchy included Belgium and the Netherlands and was the most advanced part of Europe and possibly the wealthiest court. It wasn't enough for Charles the Bold, he wanted to expand into Lorraine and Switzerland. When the York boys were in exile they stayed with Charles, Edward IV's brother-in-law. Sadly Charles was killed trying to expand his Dukedom. This left Margaret of York, Edward's, sister probably the richest woman in Christendom. She had a stepdaughter by Charles the Bold's first wife. The stepdaughter and Margaret had good relations and Margaret brokered a marriage with Maximillian I, the first of the Hapsburg rulers of the Duchy. Margaret had fallen out with the increasingly independant cities of Brussels and Ghent and moved her court to Mechelen. When Richard III was king, in his will he nominated one of the De la Poles, the Earl of Lincoln as his successor. After Bosworth De la Pole and the remaining Ricardians like Lovell went to Margaret. As a financially wealthy woman and trying to unseat Henry VII she bankrolled rebellion.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it. I'm working on Margaret of Anjou at the moment (or rather I'll be getting back to her once I've caught up on some comments here on this video!)

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, the Duchess of Burgundy was very interesting too (as was the man behind your username, though I suspect a lot of people don't know that much about the Popish Plot).

[@dianetheisen8664]

Obsessivefangirl: don't forget Elizabeth Woodville's mother, Jaquetta ( unsure of spelling).

[@lyndsaycrawford]

@@HistoryCalling the popish plot, Titus Oates. The one that between 1678 and 1681? Or am I thinking of something else?

[@naomiskilling1093]

I feel like Cecily is so often overshadowed by the other women in the Wars of the Roses, particularly Elizabeth Woodville and Margaret of Anjou that she deserves to have some time in the spotlight. She was a phenomenal woman and a great survivor.

[@English_Dawn]

Maybe because the first two were Queens and left more of a mark for posterity, for example they were both foundesses of Queens' College, Cambridge. Margaret was born to rule if needed, just like her aunt, Elizabeth against the odds played a role at Grafton Regis to liaise with Edward and ensure her family's elevation much to the chagrin of "old money" as would later play out. Cecily was first and foremost, as you say, a survivor. That and her fecundity seem to have been her main traits. She doesn't seem to have been a stateswoman of the same calibre as the Margarets or even that of her daughter Margaret who ruled probably the wealthiest state and with no little skill after the death of her husband in Burgundy which included the Low Countries and post-Bosworth would entertain survivors like De la Pole the Earl of Lincoln her brother's nominated heir and Lord Lovell. Through the resources of Burgundy she would foment rebellions against Henry VII including Stoke Field in 1487. She also was instrumental in arranging the marriage of her step-daughter to Maximillian I. There is a good dvd called WOTR A Bloody Crown that highlights the background, sadly the death of Kemp the Chancellor, Jack Cade's rebellion and the causes, the major players with family tree and the political developments.

[@HistoryCalling]

She really was. The other two women are great as well of course and I'll be doing videos on them both in due course.

[@josmith2031]

any one would be 👍overshadowing miss peg 😘

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling And Elizabeth Woodville 's mother, too? I hope.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@dearoldbiddy1363]

"The Yorks were dysfunctional to their core." Reminds me Henry II, Eleanor of Aquitaine and their children.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yup, that's for sure. Hopefully at some point I'll do videos on them.

[@edithengel2284]

Same family, so I guess it's not surprising. I wonder if families at every level of society were as brutal to each other as the extended royal family was in those days. And whether it was the same elsewhere.

[@johntshorter]

Funnily enough there’s an old rumour that the spectacular military successes and often savage internecine struggles associated with the Plantagenet dynasty (and thus its descendant houses, Lancaster, York, and Tudor) all stem from the family’s supposed satanic blood inherited from Adele of Meaux, the reputed Demon Countess of Anjou, a great grandmother to Geoffrey of Anjou - who was the second husband of Empress Matilda and the father of the eventual Henry II of England. I’d love to see a video on the biography of this medieval nobel woman who apparently flew out of a church window when forced to take communion, never to be seen again 😅 🧙🏻‍♀️🧹😈

[@edithengel2284]

@@johntshorter Their descent from her was supposed to be the reason for the stupendous rages of the male Plantagenets. I suspect there aren't enough sources of information about her to create a video. It might be interesting to mention if HC ever does a video on Henry II.

[@mariavi33]

I can't even imagine how strong she must have been. She went through so many horrible events and lost so much of her family, including 10 of her 12 children, yet she kept going. Hopefully, her granddaughter becoming queen and knowing that her descendants would still become monarchs gave her some satisfaction

[@sarahwatts7152]

This is one of the things I find so hard to imagine - the cold hard pragmatism you have to have as a royal at such a time, mixed with the profound grief of losing children. I'd also hate to be 80 at that time - I would have virtually no peers in my age group...

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I think she was one tough cookie too and I hope seeing her descendants still on the throne (even if in an unexpected way) gave her some peace.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@a.munroe]

Thank you so much. Cecily is one of my favourites in the Wars of the Roses, actually Cecily was a strong contender for my daughters name :)Your work is wonderfully done and very much appreciated ❤️🌹

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Audrianna. Hope it brightened your day in Canada (you're in Canada right, or did I just get confused?)

[@a.munroe]

@@HistoryCalling it absolutely did, it makes my "me time" so great. I love that you remember too! Thank you

[@HistoryCalling]

No problem. I seem to recall getting it wrong a few weeks ago and thinking you were in the States, so I tried to make a mental note of Canada going forwards :-)

[@emilybarclay8831]

It’s incredible that this woman lived to see the birth of her great grandchildren Arthur and Henry VIII. She must have known one of them would be king, and although she died when they were only 9 and 4, she must have been proud of how, ultimately, it was her family that won the throne

[@elisabethhopson5639]

Thank you History calling, another well researched and interesting vlog. I almost feel like we are being treated to a Uni lecture as the content and assessment are really excellent. Cecily certainly was a survivor, unlike her sons and grandsons, however who knows how much heartache she suffered with the brutal actions of those all around her. Difficult for any of us alive now to comprehend how strong women, royal women, had to be in those days. Any sign of weakness and you were dead. Many thanks again, can't wait for the next one.

[@English_Dawn]

Generally their gender saved them even if they were suspected of plotting - Lady Margaret Beaufort re-the Buckingham Rebellion. Her husband Thomas Lord Stanley had to stand surety for her. Her previous husband sadly killed after injuries sustained at Barnet possibly had to do a similar thing. She was at the fulcrum of the enemy court but nothing, absolutely nothing, would she let stand in the way of her son. One third of the nobility perished during the WOTR. Practically all male. The dark days of females and the axe, sword in Anne Boleyn's case, were to come under the Tudors. Even the stuff of nightmares when Margaret Pole, the mother of Cardinal Pole and 70 years old was chased around and chopped at as she would not kneel. Horrendous! :-((((

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Something totally different next week, but I hope you'll like it too :-)

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling I am sure I will! It's not the Kirk O'Fields gunpowder thing is it against Darnley! ;-) Maybe with your propensity for things Stuart and Scottish and to be topical it's not the sad demise of James I when his escape from murderers was thwarted when his escape route was blocked due to losing too many shuttlecocks. Government Warning: Badminton can damage your health. Funnily enough referring to Lady Cecily it is interesting she didn't feel like she had to take up the veil like her daughter-in-law and the authorities seemed quite content to let her reside in Berkamstead. In fact Lady Margaret and her seemed cordial and when Lady Margaret moved into Collyweston were almost neighbours.

[@eldelflowerwater]

This was awesome- thank you, History Calling!

[@josephc9963]

I would love to see a video by you investigating Henry VI's death. Between him, the Duke of Clarence and the princes in the tower, there's certainly no shortage of mysterious deaths in the Tower of London from this period.

[@HistoryCalling]

I know. It's certainly got a violent history.

[@dailythebigcheese]

I really love these videos, other then being entertaining you take it seriously and wont lie or use murky sources to make a better story, you take your sources really seriously and i heavily respect it!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Yes, I am a stickler for sources and while I would never say I'm above making a mistake (because no one is and I also have to turn the videos around very fast which can lead to the odd oversight), it'll never be because I knowingly used a lousy source, or couldn't be bothered to look up a better one.

[@AnnaB939603]

Wow, what a life Cecily lived. I didn’t know she was the grandmother of the Princes in the Tower though. I wish that mystery could be solved. It’s sad to know that Cecily might have known their fate and not been able to save them. Thank you so much for these videos. I look forward to them all week. I can’t imagine how much work it must be to do all the research. It’s very much appreciated. Can’t wait until next week.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Yes, the Wars of the Roses are proving to be a bit of a slog, but I think it'll get easier as I go along and get more and more familiar with all the different people and events. I wish there could be some resolution to the Princes mystery too. It's something very different next week, but hopefully you'll enjoy it too :-)

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling I seem to remember something about a 'trial' of King Richard III and the Princes in the Tower. Anyway, he was exonerated of that accusation. Anyone else hear this?

[@tiffcat1100]

It’s not so much that the videos are long as that you pack so much into them! ❤

[@ns-wz1mx]

what an amazing life, and so long for her time. it shocks me her lands and stuff were never stripped from her! just thinking about all the changes the world went through during her life and how she got to see it all and be involved in it, blows my mind! great video!!🙌🏻

[@HistoryCalling]

I know. I find it remarkable how well she was able to do under all these different regimes as well. She seems to have been able to stay (more or less) in everyone's good books. She must have been very diplomatic.

[@ns-wz1mx]

@@HistoryCalling oh absolutely!! i have a lot of new respect for her now 🙌🏻

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling And a fast talker!

[@nancyM1313]

Thanks for part 2💌

[@stephencarrillo5905]

It's amazing Cecily survived all the intrigue and betrayal which seems to have been omnipresent during this period. Richard certainly adds a whole new level to an errant son; what a brazen ingrate. The amount of research required for this bio seems daunting, but your videos demonstrate how well you're up for the task. Thanks for taking us on another fact-filled journey. BTW - "Sarcasm" - Love it! Until next week, be well.

[@HistoryCalling]

Haha, yes I decided last minute I'd better explain the sarcasm as not everyone always gets it! :-)

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@AnnaAnna-uc2ff]

Thank you.

[@mariamanasewitsch2977]

I absolutely LOVE your channel. There are SO MANY people to cover but I’m glad you’ve done Cecily bcuz, like Margaret Beaufort they were women, doing extraordinary things in a time of great upheaval. Absolute fascinating.

[@English_Dawn]

What did Cecily actually do? She was the victim of bad decisions by her husband and her sons rather than a protagonist in her own right. The York's were dysfunctional. Her husband and brother bit off more than they could chew with Queen Margaret. Edward married against her wishes. George, possibly her favourite was, well GEORGE. As for Richard and her grandsons? Her daughter Margaret was the only one that got political but it didn't end well for her either trying to unseat the Tudors. The Lancastrians seem to have recognisised Cecily's passivity by allowing her to function normally at Berkhamstead.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Maria. Margaret Beaufort's videos will be along in due course as well. :-)

[@tstuart7333]

Many thanks. I have really enjoyed both episodes with regards to Cecily Neville. A great and remarkable age indeed to achieve for the times. A woman with enormous history albeit, good, bad, happy or sad.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Yes, she's an interesting character, even if not as famous as Margaret Beaufort and Elizabeth Woodville.

[@straingedays]

TGIF. Begun to always look forward to your History Videos They are so well detailed on Famous and Forgotten names Plus, your voice is exceptionally soothing & relaxing for me

[@HistoryCalling]

Ok, I had to Google TGIF, but assuming I got the right definition, I'm glad it's Friday too 😀 I'm also glad you find the videos helpful and relaxing :-)

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling TGIF, you got it right, indeed 👍.

[@kazoolibra7322]

I have been anticipating this and you did not disappoint!! Wonderful video, delivered with enthusiasm.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. It was quite the slog researching and putting together this video (and the first one last week), so it's nice to know it's appreciated and enjoyed :-)

[@kazoolibra7322]

Loving the work you are doing, HC

[@Birdie252]

I could listen to you for hours !! You put history in a simple language that sets the imagination flying !!!

[@deborahbrottmiller2948]

So interesting thank you.

[@laughingrightback]

Your work is excellent! Thank you very much.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you too. Glad you enjoyed learning about Cecily. :-)

[@theladydeirdre2173]

I have so much respect for the work that you have done! I have been deeply entrenched in my own families genealogy for years. Apparently Cecily was one of my 15th. Great grandmothers I cannot imagine the pain that these women went through. Thank you for giving them a voice and life in our present day.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@wendybond2848]

Fascinating, thank you.

[@katiewersell5149]

Love your videos! I appreciate the time you put into them ❤️ Also, you have an incredibly soothing voice 🙂

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you so much :-)

[@BeHappy-ky5ft]

I really enjoy all your videos. The Tudor and Tudor connected ones are my favorite. Keep up the great work.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. More Tudors in a couple of weeks :-)

[@wellingtonsboots4074]

Thank you History Calling. That was fantastic, What a life. Hard to find a highlight with so many ups and downs. But what strength she must have had. Just wonder what she must have looked back on in her later years with Henry Tudor in power. Must go and find Laynesmith's book.

[@HistoryCalling]

I know. I like to think her son Edward being King gave her some peace after the losses she suffered at Wakefield. Yes, Laynesmith's book is good and actually not too long as these things go.

[@Ozymand1as1]

Whomever you describe in your videos, you have a remarkable ability to sift the facts and tell their story with clarity in an engaging manner.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. It's tricky to do sometimes and of course there are things I have to leave out for reasons of time and to make the videos flow better, but hopefully everything crucial is in there :-)

[@gaylegoodman9097]

Thank you so much for this very informative video. I just found & subscribed to your channel today. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Looking forward to viewing more episodes 😊.

[@stephanietaylor8003]

I love your videos! Thank you for another two on Cecily. ❤

[@melieflynn-hayes7996]

She went through so much loss i hope she is reunited peaceful with her husband children and grandchildren.

[@robertdudley4017]

Wow HC, great research and so indepth thank you for all your hard work. 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

My pleasure! :-)

[@OkieJammer2736]

Simply outstanding. 🎉 Brava!

[@English_Dawn]

Thank you so much as usual and for doing all the research. Glad that Edward had his father's and brother Edmund's bodies returned to Fotheringhay and they lie with family members.

[@HistoryCalling]

Not at all. Yes, I like that they ended up buried together too.

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling Glad you have discovered the High Middle Ages. History is great but this period is on another level. Renaissance, a great leap forward in architecture like the Perpendicular style, music, particularly church, a lot of which survives and art like the Ghent Altarpiece by Jan Van Eyck. This is the background upon which this period plays out. Literature like the Book of Hours and plate- articulated armour of which English armour had it's own distinctive style. It was common in England for knights to fight on foot and specialised leg-foot armour was required. Many funerary alabaster monuments accurately reflect this. Look in any old church. For women it was the age of the "wimple". The most elaborate headresses were to be found at the Burgundian Court but the English Court as depicted in your vids was not a backwater. Have you heard of the Paston Letters? The Pastons were an East Anglian family of this period, were Lancastrian and clashed with their neighbour the Duke of Norfolk. Lady Paston has written a shopping-list of materials so her husband can purchase on her behalf. Apart from all the coronations, battles etc it shows the domestic side that was undoubtedly taking place. You say Owen Tudor was killed at Mortimer's Cross. Technically he wasn't. He was captured, taken to Hereford and the next day sadly executed. A similar thing happened after many battles. The Duke of Somerset was captured at Tewkesbury and executed the next day. John de Vere the Earl of Oxford's father and brother had been executed by John Tiptoft, Earl of Worcester. Later the roles were reversed and the Earl of Worcester was executed by the Earl of Oxford. It was this vendetta that made the WOTR so soaked in blood. So it is so good that Edward made a family mausoleum at Fotheringhay though he and is queen are buried in St. George's Chapel, Windsor. Thank you for having a look at this period. It is oft overlooked with people in a rush to get to Henry VIII & Elizabeth. Are you going to do a profile some day on Prince Rupert of the Rhine and of Canada?

[@susanwilson4589]

Thank you very much for your time & efforts in producing History is Calling. I started watching it to get a more accurate account of what happened, after watching: The white queen, the white princess & the Spanish princess all on Stan… I have really enjoyed learning more…. THANK YOU 😊

[@susanhepburn6040]

Thank you very much.

[@HistoryCalling]

You are very welcome :-)

[@FandersonUfo]

among other things Cecily was the youngest child from a family of 22 children - and she gave birth to 12 children herself - omg

[@HistoryCalling]

Yup, no effective birth control back then, that's for sure!

[@FandersonUfo]

@@HistoryCalling - it must have been exhausting for the ladies - raising live stock almost - oh dear - 🛸👽

[@English_Dawn]

Yes Ralph Neville the first Earl of Westmorland and with Henry V at Harfleur etc had sired various children a senior branch and a junior branch of which Cecily formed part. Wakefield is shrouded in mystery but it is likely Cecily's brother, husband and son were set up by her other relative John Neville. John Neville was from the senior but poorer branch. The Lancastrians had formed up by the Humber. The plan was for John to go to Sandal and be "reconciled" with Richard Duke of York and his other Neville relatives and promised them troops. This was a trap. His branch had always been loyal to Henry VI. As the troops arrived it looks like Richard went out to greet them. More Lancastrians stood in ambush in a nearby wood. Sadly it didn't end well for Richard Duke of York, his son Edmund and his brother-in-law Richard Neville Earl of Salisbury who was captured, taken to Pontefract seized by a mob the next day and executed. John turns up again at the Battle of Ferrybridge a Lancastrian ambush were he faced his relative Richard Earl of Warwick the latter being injured by an arrow as he tried to escape. Edward then ordered another of Cecily's other Neville relatives, Fauconberg, to ride upstream and try and find a crossing and interdict the returning Lancastrians before they could reach the main force. This they did at Dintingdale were sadly John Neville was killed.

[@mariavi33]

And she outlived 10 of them

[@themaltesepenny3504]

Reading the extraordinary fecundity of the York family including Edward IV I certainly think various medical theories about Henry VIII's breeding difficulties, possibly due to hereditary blood disorder from Jacquetta - may be true.

[@HistorySkills]

I enjoy watching your videos and seeing how your channel has grown. It keeps me motivated to keep working on my own. Keep the great content coming!

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, absolutely do keep going. :-)

[@dianetheisen8664]

What is your channel about? Oh I know history as your name implies, but, what history? I love ❤ Royal History (not just British). Very interested.

[@nathanfisher1826]

Thank you! Very well done!!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Nathan. She was quite tough and time consuming to research, so I'm glad her videos are done now :-)

[@nathanfisher1826]

@@HistoryCalling some day I will get back to England and mabe try and do some research on my family there. I have a date, a ship, a mother’s name and a son’s name, but the father is listed as sea captain

[@Ozymand1as1]

@@HistoryCalling Very glad you referenced Joanna Laynesmith's work. She is a colleague of mine.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@WhoDaresWins-B20]

Another excellent broadcast. Thank you.

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome :-)

[@jenniferstone2975]

The Holbein drawing featured in the video is of Sir John More, Thomas More’s father.

[@bevinboulder5039]

Another great video! I didn't know much about this lady who should have been queen, but she lead an amazing life managing to make it to 80 despite all the children that she gave birth to. Can't wait to see your report on Margaret Beaufort. The White Princess did a total hatchet job on her, so I'm looking forward to hear about her from a more neutral source.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. I'm looking forward to Margaret B too. Currently working on Margaret of Anjou, but MB will be up after that :-)

[@anthonycalbillo9376]

Wow, it was a very busy and tragic period of History.

[@HistoryCalling]

Sure was. I'm working on Margaret of Anjou at the moment and it was pretty crazy for her as well.

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling Yes, her relative Louis XI was astute. Margaret's aunt had ruled in her own right so if Margaret's husband was temporarily umcommunicative it was natural for Margaret to intervene, which she did at Coventry for example where she called a Council pre-Blore Heath and the Yorks weren't invited. She had the Duke of York's number that early! Just after 1st. Alban's when it was still about "counsellors" and not the crown! Louis XI, the "Universal Spider" had rebelled in the "Praguerie" against his own father Charles VII but had become reconciled with him. But in your vid as king as you mentioned he had seen the advantage of a Margaret and Warwick alliance. The York boys had indeed earlier been in the Duchy of Burgundy though outposted for political reasons in Uttrecht I think, which formed part of the Duchy of Burgundy. The friendship forged by Philip the Good and Charles VII at the Treaty of Arras was past it's "Sell By" at this date and his son Charles the Bold was looking at Lorraine and Switzerland at this stage. Louis, who was now king, was looking at the Duchy of Burgundy, particularly Picardie etc, Tournais etc. The York's were inexorably drawn into the Burgundian ambit, at least while Charles the Bold was alive but kept at arms length at not at court. Louis XI seemed genuinely drawn to the Lancastrian cause has was Charles VIII is successor. It is an interesting point that during Louis's reign there was much destruction and they came upon the grave of John, Duke of Bedford in Rouen Cathedral. John had been, with Humphrey his brother, Protectors of Henry VI. Previous to Richard Duke of York's tenure in Rouen where Edward and Edmund were born John had overseen English possesions dying in the castle of "Joyous Repos'" at a relatively early age, no legitimate children and was buried in Rouen Cathedral which interestingly also houses the heart of Richard I Cour-de-Lion. Louis was asked should the grave be desecrated. Louis to his credit said no and that John had been such a thorn in his father's side he deserved some French soil.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@imanbell]

Fantastic video, can't wait for the others!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Working on Margaret of Anjou at the moment! :-)

[@tracymac1111]

Thank you for these wonderful biographies. History, particularly medieval British, is a passion of mine. Even though I have spent years reading these histories, I never grow bored. I appreciate your efforts to bring our complicated history to us in such lyrical yet clear readings. I look forward to many hours watching your content.

[@Jason.cbr1000rr]

Man i love your voice and accent sooo much!! "Henreh deh ethh"!! 🤣 i love it. I also hope your face matches your voice, as in pretty just like your beautiful voice/accent. 😍

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you very much :-)

[@pattifriend6676]

I enjoy these very much. The disruption is the interjections (and in this one there have been many) directing to another video, and then another. Perhaps add those all at the end or in the notes, so there's continuity of this very complicated series of events on a topic which you evidently know and understand well. As it is, seeing it from Cecily's generation, is really a very good approach to understanding these warring brothers and nephews.... thanks!

[@jackieprasek179]

I am absolutely addicted to your videos! You have a calming voice and I love the actual facts! Great work.

[@davidlancaster6941]

Awesome! Really a great conclusion. Thanks so much for bringing this to life. The photos are engaging and spice up the telling. Another jewel. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and skills. Lvya

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome :-)

[@waverider8549]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. Your research is remarkable, the story is well written, and your voice and narration are superb.

[@HistoryCalling]

Wow, thank you :-)

[@gaiawolfwitch]

Thank you again for a beautifully constructed video 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

My pleasure 😊

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@freedpeeb]

Thank you! I have so enjoyed the videos on Cecily Neville's life. She must have been a formidable woman!

[@HistoryCalling]

I think so too; a real survivor.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@alisonridout]

Great video. Alison

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you :-)

[@debbiejohnson6146]

Your research is outstanding. Cecily's life would have been a very different outcome if her son (Edward iv ) had not won that battle. I would imagine one of the most tragic moments of her life must have been her Son Edward ordering the execution of her son George. Cecily certainly lived in an era of if you were not on top you were running for your life. I think one of the most fascinating women from this era is Margaret Beaufort. I am so looking forward to that video. The politics that Margaret played would make today's politicians look like schoolchildren.😉

[@English_Dawn]

Edward won his battles, all 5 except perhaps not Ferrybridge if you count that. It was his forte. He showed magnanimity to his foes were required Bishop John Morton the Chancellor and the Duke of Northumberland, so he was not the total debauchee he is made out to be but could also be ruthless when needed. George on the other hand seemed malleable especially to Warwick. He seemed to have more lives than a cat yet still despite being hugely wealthy, caused problems for Edward. At one of Edward's battles, Empingham a.k.a. Lose-Cote Field he had Lord Welles executed in front of his own son then defeated Welles jnr in battle Inside Welles jnr's helmet was a letter incriminating George and Warwick. They had stage-managed the whole thing! Got Welles to turn up with his army and in the midst of the battle they would both turn on Edward and defeat him. They both scarpered off to exile. Edward would wear black armour to appear more ominous. However during a lull in the fighting at Tewkesbury 17 year old Edward Prince of Wales in his first battle was a match for him when they fought a duel and give as good as he got until they were both pulled apart by their respective sides and is one of the great if''s if he hadn't probably been murdered as a prisoner after the battle what king he would have become. He seemed equal to Edward. You are spot on with Lady Margaret Beaufort, totally loyal to her son, she was only 12 when she bore him. Her husband was dead by then of the plague. Three of her uncles, the Somersets, had been killed or executed fighting for the cause. Her relative Cardinal Beaufort had been an adversary of Humphrey Duke of Gloucester brother of Henry V and a Protector of Henry his son. Gloucester was for the War Parry (Hundred Years War) whilst Cardinal Beaufort was for the Peace Party. Her second husband sadly died of his wounds after Barnet. Her third husband Sir Thomas Stanley had been earlier married to one of Cecily's relatives and as such had been at Blore Heath though by all accounts not taking part but his brother Sir William Stanley did. Lady Margaret survived Sir William's part in the Warbeck rebellion against her boy. She had a priest liaise with her son in exile and tipped him off with an hour to spare to escape Richard III's clutches in Brittany. Also the same priest engaged Polydore Vergil to write an official history and ensure the narrative we get today his her narrative and that of her House. A political operator of the highest calibre and excellent spin-doctor. She outlived her son and administered the coronation of Henry VIII. She named herself "Her Lady the King's Mother" dressed equal to the Queen and only walked half-a step behind. Her son, his queen and Lady Margaret one Christmas were nearly killed in a fire at Richmond Palace. Sheen Palace had been a royal palace next door and Richmond had been built but Richard II after the death of his queen had been left to fall in a bit of disrepair. By all accounts Henry Tudor was the last to leave just as a blazing roof timber came crashing down. Greenwich Palace was used until Richmond was repaired. Lady Margaret certainly had some narrow escapes but speaks volumes for her fortitude. 🙂

[@HistoryCalling]

I'm looking forward to researching and creating the Margaret Beaufort videos too. I'm working on Margaret of Anjou at the moment, but MB will be up after that. Yes, Cecily's life was really on a knife edge after Wakefield and I can't imagine what it was like for her having one son kill the other, then the remaining son possibly (I think probably) have her grandsons killed.

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling Sad life though it was and a bit at the extreme end but it was the lot of many noble women. One third of the nobility (male) perished violently either in battle or executed. During the WotR women generally got a "free pass". Loss of freedom and/or property was their penalties. The Countess of Oxford was allowed to stay on. There must have been an awful lot of widows and mothers without sons, women without brothers. Let's look at the Woodville girls. Lots of them, cornered the market in eligible batchelors with their sudden rise up the nobility pecking-order. This meant girls in established families had less choice. Take the early Mowbray Duke of Norfolk, died and left one child an 8 year old girl. Sad about the loss of her father but she at 8 was one of the wealthiest heiresses in England. This and child-bearing was the lot of 99% of noble women. Queen Margaret was exceptional. She was never far from the battlefield, literally. She had a direct input on military matters it would look like. Ordering Lord Audley and Lord Dudley his lieutenant to intercept Salisbury at Blore Heath. I think she did this personally. I believe she was perhaps half a mile away or something like that watching from a vantage point. Same at Tewkesbury when she and Anne Neville were reputedly in a neighbouring Convent. Could you say Cecily, or any other of the York women were like that? Margaret had to do that, sadly Henry VI was often not as political as he could have been. He was taken prisoner many times. She had to fill the breach but was equally fitted to filling the breach. Story is when Henry VI was re-captured by his own side at 2nd St. Alban's two knights had be given the task to guard him by the Yorkists and Henry personally promised them no harm would come to them. Margaret ignored that and asked her son what should become of them? The young prince apparently saying they should be executed. Basically overiding the kings promise. Don't know if her grasp of English was that great or English nuance but she never missed a trick. Ended as we know in poverty with a relative, a widow and son-less. Sad end but she has left a mark on history. It is one of the great "if's" if she had let her son and her forces join Warwick before Barnet what might have happened. Instead she really didn't trust Warwick and left him fight Edward IV alone. He almost won. If he had Margaret's forces with him as well then it could have been rather different. Instead Edward was able face split forces. This would be tragic for Queen Margaret, the Lancastrian forces and not least Anne Neville, Warwick's daughter. Rather a sad life Anne had. Lose her father, weeks later lose her husband, marry one of the victors, become Queen then lose her son then die young. Life must have been compressed for people in those days.

[@akschmidt2085]

Today's politicians don't look like school children to you anyway?😜

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@sassylillady1740]

I love history. I am new here and since I have found you, I have been enjoying your channel so much. Thank you for all the detail and time you put into each video. Your topics are all well known things I know already, but you have a wonderful way of refreshing old and known dusty topics with the truth in your research. Well done!!

[@scottobryant9733]

Thank you!

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome! :-)

[@melissajackson79]

These videos are so awesome for a history lover like myself.❤

[@amywebb4586]

Really enjoyed this because she was such an important figure in her time but so little is known or discussed about her. I spent most of 2020 and 2021 on a War of the Roses deep dive of fictional and non fictional works but never got around to Cecily before I had to take a break. If there are any contemporary sources of her being "Proud Sis" I feel like that was used as a tongue in cheek nickname. Her family would hit the highest of highs only to go down to the lowest of lows that probably some mean spirited harpy started it as a way to make fun of Cecily.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I'd love to know where that nickname came from. I didn't have much time to research it, but perhaps there is some source out there that would explain it.

[@Nightbird1914]

Thank you for a most interesting and informative video. I subscribe to several other history vlogs but yours are most beautifully done and researched thoroughly with accurate pictures. I was struck by how old Edward IV looked in the coin and his profile quite unattractive although other images as the youthful king show him as handsome but from what I have read he did enjoy his food, drink, and women which probably hastened his early death. Cecile Neville was indeed a survivor and a force. I would like to hear more about her interaction with Margaret Beaufort after the marriage of their children to one another. I need to look back to see if previous done.

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Yes, Edward did enjoy the food and drink a bit too much and it somewhat spoilt his looks, even though he was still only in his early 40s. I don't have anything yet in previous videos about Margaret and Cecily interacting after 1486, but if something good comes up while I'm researching Margaret, I'll add it into her videos.

[@dianetheisen8664]

Both Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville were reported to be very attractive, yet in these pictures 📸 they are far from it. Of course, I know that people's views on attractiveness were different from ours today, but, still....

[@dianochka5432]

There exists a letter to Cecily from her youngest son while he was king, which indicates a cordial, indeed affectionate, relationship, although the formality of expression typical of the time makes interpretation difficult.

[@stephenhunt2806]

Two excellent and informative videos. Where do the battle maps come from?

[@onagaali2024]

I still think Richard III did have his nephews killed in 1483. He had much to gain from Edward V's death. That must have wore Cecily Neville's conscious and psychological side down to know the possibility that her son might have killed her grandsons, outliving her children, and seeing her whole monarchial crest annihilated through war, executions, and sickness.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I find it hard to imagine Richard didn't have anything to do with the boys' deaths as well, though I know that view wouldn't make me popular with his supporters. I've just never found the evidence convincing enough to persuade me it was anyone else though.

[@dianetheisen8664]

@@HistoryCalling Wasn't there a 'trial' of King Richard III? And wasn't he exonerated? I'm not saying that he didn't have anything to do with their disappearance, just asking if you had heard of a 'trial' done by Richard's supporters.

[@sarahdon3165]

Thank you so much I adore History and these videos are brilliant. There very informative and they was you covey and express ❤️💕❤️

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Sarah :-)

[@dianetheisen8664]

Great follow-up to part one. You know your history!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. I'm definitely getting to know the Wars of the Roses a lot better than I did before, that's for sure :-)

[@azariahisrael5632]

Thanks for the video. Cecily is my 19th great grandmother. I decend from her 3 ways that I know. Via Princess Mary Tudor Brandon and her daughter Francis Brandon Grey. Via Margaret de la Pole and also via Margaret Plantagenet Lumley illegitimate daughter of Edward IV. The Neville's are from Northumbria and decendants of the real Uthred the Bold. The Neville are also decendants of Geoffrey Chaucer author of Canterbury Tales and father of English literature.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@edithengel2284]

I wonder how the Nevilles descent from Chaucer. Chaucer had one son, Thomas, and I think, a daughter who was a nun. Thomas had one daughter Alice who married William de la Pole, 1st Duke of Suffolk, and they had one son John de la Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk. He married Elizabeth Plantagenet, daughter of Cecily and Richard, sadly none of their many children are known to have had issue. The sons were soldiers who died in battle or were executed or entered the church. One daughter became a nun, the other daughters married but left no children. So I can see why Chaucer's great grand children had a pair of Neville great grandparents (Cecily's parents) but not how anyone named Neville descended from him. We (and a million other people) are cousins. Descent from the Plantagenets is almost universal among people descended from English ancestors. Many Plantagenet descendants were among the very early New England colonists, so many Americans descend from the Plantagenets.

[@DiddlyPenguin]

This was a very interesting episode . Cecily was obviously very tenacious to keep going when others would have given up a long time before. Very violent times to be alive

[@English_Dawn]

It was more violent if you were male. During the WOTR house-arrest was about as bad as it got personally for a lady - Lady Margaret Beaufort. It was grim losing husbands, sons, brothers though. One third of the nobility perished - violently. Directly a lady could lose property and wealth if her family had been attainted. A woman either fought behind the scenes politically or retired gracefully, usually to a Convent or both like Elizabeth Woodville who took vows at Bermondsey Abbey. The church was often a path for women in the Middle Ages. On the Continent Beguinages similar to Convents were very popular and many survive where women particularly of noble birth would choose the religious path instead of the deadly toll of destruction that would attend during periods in secular society. Sadly it would get grimmer under the Tudors. Being female was no bar to execution. :-(

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, she was a real fighter.

[@amyggg79]

Really admiring your work! Brilliant!

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@vernon2542]

Very interesting Hard to believe she lived to be as old as she was with her kids dying so young.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, 80 really was remarkable. I mean it would be a very respectable age even today.

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@keiththorpe9571]

I have been, for many years, a huge fan of Sharon Kay Penman's historical fiction novels, such as "The Sunne In Splendour". I find them to have been far better researched than Phillipa Gregory's "The White Queen", "The White Princess", etc. I also find they seem to not take too many liberties with historical fact. That said, however, the adaptation of "The White Queen" featured in the role of Isabel Neville, Duchess of Clarence, the most beautiful and talented Ms. Eleanor Tomlinson. I would really enjoy seeing her featured in one of your videos, as she seems, like her sister Queen Anne, to be somewhat neglected and disregarded by history. Maybe you could make that a double video...Isabel and Anne Neville.

[@HistoryCalling]

If the women of the Wars of the Roses videos I have planned do well enough and there are sufficient sources to do a good video on her, I'll come back at the end and cover Isabel's life, promise :-)

[@keiththorpe9571]

@@HistoryCalling You're the BEST!!!! Don't ever change. 😁

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling She's buried, at least her skull is with that of her husband George's in Tewkesbury Abbey. Tewkesbury was part of the Clarence Estates. Edward Prince of Wales is buried in Tewkesbury Abbey. The Yorkists behaved badly and murdered a lot of Lancastrian soldiers who had taken sanctuary in the Abbey. The Lancastrians had respected sanctuary when Elizabeth, Edward IV's queen had taken sanctuary in Westminster Abbey. Tewkesbury Abbey had to be re-consecrated after this awful and barbaric episode.

[@faytsampouri6197]

Any video by you is awesome and welcomed 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you so much 😀

[@brynntheloser9303]

Sorry if you’ve mentioned but what biography did you read on cecily? I’d be very interested to get my hands on a copy as well! I love your content 😊

[@allisonyoung3420]

Loved this and glad you are doing this series on women of the wars of the roses! One question, was she ever in Burgundy wit her daughter Margaret as was portrayed in the white princess? I wouldn't think she was there as much as the series claimed but am curious to know if she ever went there to be with her daughter? Thank you again for this series!

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome. I don't recall (off the top of my head) reading anything about her being in Burgundy, no.

[@beth7935]

Brilliant again! I so appreciate all the hard work & research you do, & that you explain the sources- & that you sometimes say it's not clear what happened. I'd heard some of these things stated as facts & I like getting my misinformation corrected! Just signing her letters "Cecily" reminds me of Margaret Beaufort signing hers "Margaret R" after Henry VII became king- the "R" was ostensibly for "Richmond", but nobody was fooled 😆No worse than English monarchs claiming to rule France tho!

[@HistoryCalling]

Oh, I love how Margaret Beaufort signed her name and as you say, she was fooling no one. Her surname by that point was Stanley! Yes, sometimes we just don't know (or maybe there's a source I can't get a hold of, so I don't know) and I find it's better to just admit that.

[@beth7935]

@@HistoryCalling Yeah, I love Margaret, she was a legend! And I don't see why she- or Cecily- shouldn't claim such high status, being the mother of the king & having royal descent themselves, even tho they hadn't been queen.

[@jmch2186]

I'm late to the party as a new sub but yes, I spotted the Easter Egg. Nice touch!

[@mcampbell6172]

Nice work

[@ns-wz1mx]

i’ve been so excited for this!! i even started rewatching the white queen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@HistoryCalling]

It's fun to watch. Not exactly historically accurate, but definitely one of my guilty pleasures :-)

[@ns-wz1mx]

@@HistoryCalling haha same here!! it makes me cringe but also i cant get enough😂😂

[@English_Dawn]

@@HistoryCalling Tried "WOTR A Bloody Crown dvd? Entry-level political synopsis of the background, major players and handy tool.

[@gina928]

Very interesting! I enjoyed your videos. Thank you!

[@HistoryCalling]

My pleasure :-)

[@annm.7176]

Love your videos

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you :-)

[@leefr76]

A video on the death of Henry VI would be interesting if possible.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I'd like to look into that in more detail. So many rumours...

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@neilsimpson3181]

Excellent presentation

[@HistoryCalling]

Thanks Neil :-)

[@Viscount3]

It's nice that you acknowledge the question I've always contemplated. What would Cecily Neville say to Richard III if the Princes went missing. Richard would have been her only son left, and the Princes were still her grandchildren, albeit via a woman she didn't like. But it's a complex situation. And I find Cecily Neville to be very mute across the pages of history. I do think that she just rode out the situation, as so many in her family died tragically. And she would have existed in the same presence as Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort as an ancestress to the dynasty. To be a great grandma today is a feat, for Cecily she saw it all.

[@Ozymand1as1]

Indeed. It seems there may have been a conspiracy of silence amongst the relations of the two boys: mother, grandmother, sisters, uncle. Perhaps they were not murdered but spirited away to a secret place of safety and the silence was to protect their whereabouts and their lives.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear how that conversation went as well. She surely must have asked???

[@Viscount3]

@@HistoryCalling Ceciley Neville: "Richard Dear, where art thou my 2 highborn Grand Princes of York?". Richard Plantagnet: "Lady Mother, our winter of discontent has been made summer by your true Sun of York, and all the clouds that lour'ed upon our house has been deep buried in the ocean's bosom". Ceciley Neville: "What in the Hell of the White Rose of York does that mean?".

[@rebeccaschillinger675]

Love your videos!! Thank you for doing all the work and research! They are so well done 😊

[@HistoryCalling]

You're welcome. Thank you for watching and supporting. :-)

[@lilsteffiebeaurbest9018]

Man this is my favorite channel 👍👍👍

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you so much :-)

[@Moebian73]

It's hard to pinpoint a happy occasion in a tragedy. Being mum is a highlight for all mums...except for the dysfunctional ones that go haywire on their children. I'm sure there's true stories on bad moms out there. I rewatched part 1 then watched part 2. Great videos! :)

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. I like to think her children gave her lots of happy times too.

[@Moebian73]

@@HistoryCalling I'm remembering what day it is this week, so I have an opening free moment spot for your video. Fridays are crazy. :)

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍

[@Jemini4228]

Hiya. I was just wondering if you would be interested in making a video about the legend of Robin Hood. How much was fact and how much is embellishment? Was any of it true? I think it would make for an interesting examination of where the lines between folklore and history are drawn. He's certainly a compelling figure .

[@HistoryCalling]

I've thought about that actually and did some very preliminary research. I think the thing putting my off though was just how muddled the sources all seemed to be. I think it could be a horrendous nightmare to try to unpick :-(

[@beth7935]

I have a book that has a damn good go at sorting through the legends & history: Robin Hood by J. C. Holt. There's no simple answer, or one specific person the legends were based on, but that makes it more interesting to me. There were many records of thieves called Robin Hood (& a few other characters), & it seems like it was more this idea or character in folklore & people named themselves after it, rather than the other way around.

[@lou6012]

Thanks so much was hanging out for part two!!! You do a wonderful job

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you :-)

[@robertolds6178]

No matter how you slice it, she had a big impact on English history.

[@margheritatimeus3400]

I can't wait for documentaries on Margaret Beauford and Elisabeth Woodville (but even on Elisabeth of York). Very good job... 👏👏👏

[@nicolemaria913]

Can you do a video on Margaret Pole and her family?

[@stitcher4729]

These people could really have helped us amateur historians out a lot by varying their first names a bit.

[@HistoryCalling]

I know right? At least Cecily was pretty unusual and thank goodness for Jacquetta of Luxembourg. All those Richards, Edwards and Henrys though. Ahh!

[@stitcher4729]

@@HistoryCalling There are thousands of saints names and people stuck to the same old ones. (Granted, some of them are rather ugly.) In my father's home town, when he was growing up, the kids in every family had the same first names. He used to say the priests named them.

[@Jay-n262]

The Thomas Moore portrayed by Jeremy Northam in the Tudors was one of my characters. He was brilliant and one of the few at court that wasn't totally corrupt. The real Thomas Moore was probably quite different.

[@od1452]

Thanks.. more fun trying to understand the players in the Wars of the Roses. !! I wonder what the common folk thought of the Kingly maneuvering of the time. Backing the wrong person at the wrong time could have been costly. When someone you love does something you don't like, you really have to figure out how to deal with it. ... no matter your stance. So I can see one making their own peace with the outcome. I also wonder if these families had trouble making attachments with others because of the way they were raised ...often apart much of the time. I don't know. I find Anne interesting for some reason.

[@English_Dawn]

There is an excellent dvd that covers this period called W of the R. A Bloody Crown. The politics, the players, the background, the family tree. The unease of losing territory that they had gained due to St. Joan of Arc and a resurgent Charles VII who was crowned by St. Joan at Rheims. This meant troops who had known nothing else but war in the Hundreds Year War coming home looking for employment. "Petrol, meet Mr. Match". England riven politically by a War Faction led by Humphrey Duke of Gloucester and a Peace Party led by Cardinal Beaufort and allied to Henry VI and Queen Margaret. Sadly the death of Kemp the Chancellor and Jack Cade's rebellion were catalysts. Rival families, often local, gave further fuel. Not only the Percy/Neville fued which had ended in violence in the North preceding the the WotR but also the Neville/Neville feud between the two branches and many more throughout the kingdom. In East England the Duke of Norfolk was at loggerheads with the Earl of Oxford whose home was in Essex. In Wales there was a Beaufort/Richard Neville (Earl of Warwick) dispute over Glamorgan plus two major Welsh families the Tudors and the Herbert's. If one side chose the red rose their opponent chose the white rose. It was like an "unstoppable train". Incidents did occur if a family was disposessed or defeated where families were split up. Henry Tudor when his family was on their uppers was taken from his mother as a small boy and given to the Herbert's. By all accounts he was treated well and treated like Herbert's own sons. Sadly Herbert was executed by Warwick after Edgecote when Warwick and Clarence had rebelled against Edward IV. My understanding is Henry Tudor still a young boy was on the point of being executed but shouted he was "Henry Tudor" and for some reason Warwick to his credit let him live.

[@HistoryCalling]

Yes, I've often wondered how close family members could really be given that they didn't always live in the same household. It's such a different dynamic to how most of use interact with our families today.

[@timefoolery]

Thank you for this series on Cecily. I enjoyed learning more about her. Can’t wait for your video on Elizabeth Woodville!

[@HistoryCalling]

Thank you. Elizabeth will be along in due course, promise :-)

[@TheMawalli128]

I have one niggling doubt though… why does it feel like that during his life time, Richard of York always seemed to keep Edmund with himself and leave Cecily to Edward ? Even when they fled to Ireland and France, he sent Cecily with Edward and kept Edmund with himself in their run to Ireland? How do you read that?

[@WickedFelina]

The gold coin that is titled "King Edward IV" is not a medieval coin. Medieval coins had the monarch facing you, sitting on the throne. They were also hammered with no edge as seen in the photo. In profile, only the head is shown with no royal robes as in this one. Medieval coins also, looked similar in style. RIchard looks nothing like him. It looked too new, and nothing like I have ever seen before. Nothing like Edward IV as well. Is it a forgery possibly? This is a profile which was popular a few hundred years later. Was it a commemorative coin or, is it a king from a different country?

[@edithengel2284]

You are correct. It is some kind of commemorative coin, 1763, of gilded bronze, created by Swiss medalist Jean Dassier, in the National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC.

[@ser3589]

Was it Elizabeth's brother in-law or brother, John, that was executed with he father at Chepstow? Another great video, thank you for your videos.

[@jamestnov41945]

Fascinating episodes 1 and 2. I am amazed that this lady died at 80.

[@HistoryCalling]

I know. She did remarkably well for the time.

[@dianetheisen8664]

A ripe old age.

[@themaltesepenny3504]

Seeing the coin portrait of Edward IV and various portraits I am still puzzled by why he was considered handsome.

[@HistoryCalling]

He was much older in the coin portrait, but in his youth I believe he was considered quite the catch :-)

[@kashfiaislam9995]

Did King Edward IV's younger brother Edmund, Earl of Rutland die a virgin? 👑💍