Was Oliver Cromwell a hero or villain? | English Civil War

In this video Professor Justin Champion grapples with the difficult question of whether Oliver Cromwell can be regarded as a hero or villain.

[@anonymousAJ]

0:45 If you're fighting the Antichrist, you can't have a boxing match, you have to win Lots of monsters thought they were fighting the Antichrist

[@mariussielcken]

The pope thinks he's the placeholder for Jesus. That's what anti-Christ mean.

[@syang1116]

Professor Champion was no more in June of 2020. Rest in peace.

[@funshoagbalu577]

Sad to hear this 🖤

[@mortalclown3812]

Darn...I just discovered his work. Way too young to pass. RIP

[@h.j7469]

his views definately need to be said now in 2022, we are living in a period where grey figures are considered evil always.

[@amirahim8357]

R.I.P

[@olivercromwell1599]

I don't like that you even considered I could be villain.

[@cromwell.is.awesome]

Based cromwell

[@ATLmodK]

Should have treated my ancestors better. First you killed off most of them then you exiled one of my direct ancestors into slavery in Barbados. Yes, slavery. When Charles II came to power he outlawed slavery, but left the Barbados slaves with no way to fend for themselves. The lucky ones became indentured servants and that’s how my ancestor came to Massachusetts.

[@geoffboxell9301]

@@ATLmodK Bonded Servants with a time frame on the bond is not slavery. You are buying into an Irish myth designed to deflect slavery blame away from black chattel slavery.

[@aaronpandey]

i think so u created this account to just comment onthis

[@tialia9387]

we don't study about heros in history but about persons who chancges and determinated the history.

[@kevwhufc8640]

I don't think anyone studies heroes in history class. A hero = firefighters are heroes every week. Nobody writes about them .. Cromwell wasn't a hero , He determined history, made himself lord protector of Britain until he died. Hd was really horrible man And a hypocrite .

[@Mermaid404]

CROMWELL WAS AS BAD AS HITLER!

[@Mermaid404]

A lot of the Irish records were distroyed in 1922, most of them being about Irish slavery. However most of those were saved in The Irish personal records and family bibles.

[@darrenjamieson9711]

Cromwell was a man of God who created The Industrial Age. Anybody who puts him down is an ungrateful traitor. He was the first prime minister. He was asked if he wanted to be King but said, "No". The only man in history ever to be asked this question and to accuse him of being some kind of antichrist for saying no is an absolute insult

[@darrenjamieson9711]

@@Mermaid404 Didn't look like it to me when they rudely opened his grave!

[@lukejefferies7155]

Professor Champion would have been an amazing teacher to learn under. I wish I had the opportunity. RIP.

[@MuddieRain]

“Lord Protector is but another name for King, and you're a cruel one.”

[@thunberbolttwo3953]

The king was just as bad.

[@jBread28]

​@@thunberbolttwo3953Whataboutism

[@Borodino1812god]

RIP Professor Champion

[@MrZZooh]

Basically Cromwell influenced the founding fathers. Interesting.

[@malcolmabram2957]

Cromwell had a significant impact. Indeed he was reproved by the King's Privy Council in 1630, which had a huge impact on him, which led to a significant change of direction in his life. He for a while considered going to the Colonies in America.

[@darrenjamieson9711]

@@malcolmabram2957 The King imposed Window Tax leaving Cromwell as an odd man out, but Cromwell had friends who paid for an army for him( The Cavaliers), and The King was defeated. This created The Industrial Age (notice the word trial in indus-trial)!

[@Mermaid404]

Taught them it was ok to murder and enslave people in their own land! He was a tyrant!

[@guslatcham1443]

I'd argue it was much more Leveller's and Lilburne's rhetoric that influenced the founding fathers and early US constitution. Male suffrage and freeborn rights were key tenets to both ideologies, whereas Cromwell couldn't have been more opposed to entire male enfranchisement and religious freedom.

[@johnalbent]

Indeed. I read that some historians call the American Revolution the Second English Civil War.

[@malcolmabram2957]

This period in English history is fascinating. It is a mumbo jumbo of ethics, where it is almost impossible to come up with a moral conclusion.

[@EdMcF1]

The Clubmen and the Woodbury Declaration!

[@gamingwithslacker]

Ahh , that sounds fascinating. Could you recommend some good books on the period, please ?

[@malcolmabram2957]

@@gamingwithslacker 'Cromwell our Chief of Men' by Antonia Fraser is probably the best, gives a balanced view, though has a huge amount of detail. A long read.

[@gamingwithslacker]

@@malcolmabram2957 Ah, thanks for this. I shall check it out.

[@OsFanB94]

"It happened. And you need to understand why it happened." If only people were smart enough to understand this.

[@stephenwalker850]

Just another British war criminal, right up there with thatcher and Churchill

[@stephenwalker850]

An imperial project - orange crap then , if only peepul were smart enuff to understand this 👮🏻‍♂️

[@twanderson7756]

Does that apply to the (Irish) Scots invasion of what became Scotland too? @@stephenwalker850

[@Nakeethus_Hunter]

Given how parliament is these days, we need another Cromwell An immovable parliament is more on obnoxious than a immovable king

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

Discord Another one who will hand over England to the Jews?

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

Karl Pilkington For about 400 years or so, though you’re right.

[@whitewolf4851]

@@collectiveconsciousness5314 I understand your point but I dont beleive Cromwell was that smart to know it.

[@hunted_man4035]

Collective Consciousness I‘m surprised people throw still that much shade at jews. You would think that with acts of terrorism, Islam would be hated more.

[@whitewolf4851]

@@hunted_man4035 You have no idea what you are talking about.

[@craigkennedy865]

Cromwell accused Charles I of being a tyrant.He became one himself during the 17th century and interesting how the monarchy returned under Charles II

[@williamwoods377]

Charles was the legitimate head of state & there is no evidence to suggest that most people were unhappy with his rule. Cromwell & his supporters were vicious bigots. They had no right to run the trial farce & his execution was murder. The welcome which his son had at the Restoration & throughout his reign showed what peole thought about Cromwell's dictatorship. The great tragedy of the Civil War was that it solved nothing - the great breakthrough was when William & Mary took the throne.

[@malsmith1618]

Ask the Irish ☘️

[@realhorrorshow8547]

If you want ill-informed whinging about fantasies of 400 years ago. If not, do your own research.

[@artisaprimus6306]

The professor stated something ive always believed. We shouldn't apply modern day ethics or standards to people of the distant past. They were products of their times with certain norms we might find outrageous. I'm American, but ive often wondered how Oliver Cromwell is viewed today.

[@wrightplacewrighttime.5834]

He'a a mix, though he acted with conscience in his military and political actions. I agree with Professor Champion regarding the Irish conquest - it was genocide by any standard. But then in the context of the era, it was normal. And he didn't ban Christmas, and condemned the extreme elements/actions of the Protectorate troops in establishing "godly" order. The New Model Army was his idea largely, and it featured social mobility and not just the nobility being officers.

[@kevwhufc8640]

He banned drinking at ,Christmas, he said it was popish idolatry behaviour. Christmas was a time of celebration, decorated trees presents, drinks & fun He banned all thst . Christmas to him sax just another day , go church pray go home reach a book & go bed. The man was the biggest hypocrite going. Killed a king so he could ban parliament and become king himself in all but title , instead he called himself Lord protector, he wore ermine and a crown ( look at his coins he commissioned) looks just like a king. He even named his own son to be his heir. Another thing he said he would abolish...but he didn't. When he died everyone wanted a king back , bc it had been 10 years of oppression under Cromwell. He employed Witch hunters , loads of innocent people died If you drown & died your not a witch If you float you are a witch & was burned.. He encouraged extremist puritan psychos , when king Charles 2nd was brought out of exile All the puritans all ran away and left England & went to America bc after Cromwell died they had no protection for thd awful things they did And the people were wanting revenge for all the raping The murders ( killing witches that wernt witches) the torturing The blinding of one eye , & all the other psycho punishments for ridiculous things they accused people of. (all done in gods & Cromwell's name with his blessing. Awful 10 years, an awful liar hypocrite that Cromwell was,

[@wrightplacewrighttime.5834]

@@kevwhufc8640 he didn't ban Christmas

[@kevwhufc8640]

@@wrightplacewrighttime.5834 ok you tell me what he banned You believe you know more about it than me explain, explain why everyone says he banned xmas . He was anti catholic anti Pope anti idolatry.. which includes anti Christmas. He didn't believe it to be jesus birthday ,, it wax just another day at thd church for Cromwell.. But I'll wait for your explanation ... Generally people disagree yet they dont give an answer of how it really was. Let's see if you reply or disappear when you realise your wrong & I am right . Are you American or British? Bc usually its yanks claim to know more about British history than people like myself who are from England .. ....I'll bet a fiver you don't reply with an answer

[@wrightplacewrighttime.5834]

@@kevwhufc8640 look i don''t know you. don't force random strangers to answer you. it's a fact he didnt' ban Christmas. that was done before he became Lord Protector or even had any real power. be gone fool.

[@kevwhufc8640]

@@wrightplacewrighttime.5834 aww boo hoo , am I really FORCING you to reply, wipe your face & dry your tears you snowflake. You have fingers, you have internet data Google who banned xmas & read it for yourself. 1644 parliament banned xmas festivities 1647 Oliver Cromwell ordered the long parliament to pass an ordinance abolishing the feast of Christmas,, making it illegal to celebrate xmas. But I've already told you all that . Charles had no power in London in parliament after the civil war started. Cromwell had all the power , Charles was a dead man walking a couple of years b4 he was decapitated. Try reading the full story b4 crying on & on about other people being wrong.

[@ADClarke]

0:28: did he? The October Revolution was against the Provisional Government not the Tsar.

[@AvvocatodiTito]

The provisional government was furtively restoring the old tsarist aristocracy, and Lenin, during the russian civil war, fought the white movements, which were the last but deadly remnants of tsarism.

[@halorecon95]

@@AvvocatodiTito Most White troops were provisional government troops. Only a minority were in favour of Tsarist restoration. Also, I love how we still view Tsarist Russia as being a backwards, oppressive regime. Eventhough they had already abolished serfdom and the Russian economy was the fastest growing one in the world, already having overtaken France in 1910 and GB in 1913.

[@AvvocatodiTito]

@@halorecon95 "Provisional","tsarist" and "white" troops were basically the same thing. They were armies run by aristocratic officers who wanted to defend the privileges of the aristocracy. Kerensky thought that he could control these reactionary elements, but they didn't respect him (see the Kornilov affair). Whatever flag the white officers were grasping, they wanted obedient lower classes, conquests abroad and, of course, their palaces untouched. Russian backwardness was evident to all politicians, from Miliukov to Stalin, and is evident to historians. For instance, russian railways connected north and south, but not east and west. There were few industrial centers, and the 80 % of population was composed by paesants. As for the abolition of serfdom, it was more formal than real. Paesants had to pay for their "emancipation" and the best lands were given to the nobility, thus initiating a new kind of servitude. Lastly, tsarist oppression was undeniable. See, for instance, the repression in 1912 against workers in Lena, the censorship, the Peter and Paul fortress, the Katorga or the Okhrana.

[@rabiaali3052]

No that is not true

[@rabiaali3052]

He is all right

[@equusquaggaquagga536]

“Your pretended fear lest error should step in, is like the man who would keep all wine out of the country, lest men should be drunk. It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon a supposition he may abuse it. When he doth abuse it, judge.” ― Oliver Cromwell

[@h.j7469]

As somebody is English, he's more of a hero to me, but not without dark moments. I suppose Stalin is similar to Russians, its a complicated relationship.

[@paulflynn6169]

Say that to an Irishman

[@h.j7469]

@@paulflynn6169 I have heared the violence was pretty typical for that period and Cromwell had his moments where he thought it wasn't good and wrote a lot of sombre letters saying it wasn't good.

[@h.j7469]

what he more did in england was good

[@rajkamald684]

​@@paulflynn6169Irish is not English

[@2Muchpjp]

Why cant I find anything on the Cromwell Edict of 1653?

[@anonanonymous2128]

I think many people are missing that because cromwell was from the 17th century, many acts that would seem fine to him would be horrid and cruel to us. That's not excusing what he did, however, it ends up landing more insight into the why on the way he acted. When you judge a man like this, it's important to go by both the standards of today, but also the standards of the time the person was in.

[@darkloom3919]

Not really. Genocide is Genocide regardless of the time or general mindset

[@anonanonymous2128]

@@darkloom3919 No, genocide isn't genocide regardless of mindset, an example being the spanish conquistadors killing the natives of the new world

[@b.m.t.h.3961]

​@darkloom3919 No its not. It depends on the era someone lives in.

[@rabiaali3052]

Thank u

[@lilliemay8712]

This realy helps me with homework

[@keyopronin4134]

"Oliver Cromwell" the U. K. Needs you in this day & age.

[@Michael-pn5lp]

Who are the hidden Edomite enemy within you can't mention, who opened up the floodgates ? Wake up ! "So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." (Isaiah 59:19). , , .. .

[@manimoney1313]

This was super awesome to watch. Apparently I’m a direct descendent of Oliver Cromwell but had never really dug deep into who he was until just recently and it’s fascinating to learn about one of my ancestors like this. It probably explains some of my views and beliefs since they line up with a lot of his haha.

[@whoifwhat]

your cousin

[@2_protects_the_1]

WTB a Oliver cromwell in Australia in 2022.

[@oliverdavies6057]

Who else here for school?

[@HolyNewBendy]

Lol me

[@aaronpandey]

@@HolyNewBendy me

[@ianhillman4007]

Wether he was a hero or villain depends entirely upon which side of the fence you stand.

[@zenonlopezwallace568]

Right is ríght, and Wrong is wrong, no matter what people say, If in your heart its wrong, Then it is wrong. Cromwell was like stalin a class 1 bastard. Hope he burns in hell for ever.

[@BolshevikCarpetbagger1917]

I say Cromwell was both.

[@slouchestowardsbedlam9612]

I don’t think of him as either all good or all bad. He was a catalyst for change.

[@cryptozoomauler5505]

The irony is that it was an englishman, St. Patrick, who converted the irish to catholicism from paganism. Then, later on, they told the irish to change their religion again to what they wanted it to be. The irish basically told them to get lost. Unfortunately, the British came to conquer.

[@MrTaytersDeep]

“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.” Batman!

[@you7219]

😂

[@eaglesfan226]

I read on Wikipedia Cromwell inspired the fascists. He even banned Christmas.

[@simonlaw9234]

Cromwell was one of the greatest men in history.

[@ragnapodewski4694]

He was a fanatic and his capital sin was to believe in the possibility of human purity. I'm Lutheran, nnot Reformed and I know my sinfulness.

[@oriain81]

I can't really judge what he did in Britain. His actions and that of his new model army in Ireland was nothing short of war crimes. In the end he became no better than the king he destroyed.

[@darrenjamieson9711]

Cromwell's army were called The Cavaliers. They were civilised, and created civilisation. I think you are weak for using a dead man for a scapegoat!

[@Meaocb]

@@darrenjamieson9711 He murdered 40% of the Irish population

[@darrenjamieson9711]

@@Meaocb What when they died of famine due to poor farming techniques?

[@Meaocb]

You're autistic

[@swaglad9728]

@@darrenjamieson9711 oh kiddo you haven't a fucking clue do you Cromwell wasn't around during the famine And the famine was a genocide The English starved and forced the irish to export the food

[@kevinh.2244]

Wonder what this man thought of the people tearing down all those statues around England and in North America.

[@johnweber4577]

I guess it depends on whether we are talking about Oliver Cromwell in absolute terms or controlling for what he represented in his day which was something fairly radical.

[@thisguy976]

Oliver Cromwell was partially responsible for a genocide of over 300 thousand people.

[@uhlijohn]

Churchill never saw a war he did not like or want to be involved in....the old dipsomaniac.

[@joellaz9836]

uhlijohn Churchill didn’t like Cromwell because his ancestor Winston Churchill (born in 1620) was a royalist. “Churchill was a fervent Royalist throughout his life. He fought and was wounded in the Civil War as a captain in the King's Horse and, after the Royalists were defeated, was forced to pay a recompense fee of £446 (equivalent to around £44,600 in the present day).”

[@uhlijohn]

@@joellaz9836 I can't disagree....John Churchill probably was a Cavalier and fought for King Charles....the dunderhead! He could have kept his head had he bowed to the superiority of Parliament but chose to make a foolish stand not knowing Cromwell and the roundheads were prepared to cut off his head! And what did UK get eventually? A German minor prince as king! WTF? What were those idiots thinking of? To put a boob like George 1st on the throne and he could not even speak English!

[@kevwhufc8640]

@@uhlijohn wasn't just George the German either , before the germans The British government got rid of the legitimate king James 2nd & then gave the British crown to the Dutch prince William of orange !?!? All because of religion.. James was catholic & William was protestant ... Absolutely mental...

[@kevwhufc8640]

@@fredbarker9201 William and queen Mary were invited to take the throne because they were protestant , parliament didn't want James 2nd because he was catholic and we didn't want more religious wars. I don't know much about modern history but apparently William and Mary were good monarchs.

[@fredbarker9201]

@@kevwhufc8640 you are correct. My point is that the empire would never have been so dominant with an absolute monarch at its helm (unless you’ve a man of Caesar or Napoleons calibre) I believe Britian became the world superpower thanks to the glorious revolution

[@nealmcgloin2984]

All i know about Cromwell is this ? Richard Harris played him really well in the film and alec Guinness was super as King Charles Ist. 😊

[@jgm22]

Ask an Irishman

[@markcorrigan3930]

No

[@johnbowkett5920]

Ask a Protestant Irishman ! ☺☺☺🙂☺

[@JG_1114]

I was told that this guy is one of my ancestors... I remember back in the day I was ashamed of that because I remembered reading how he penalized the Irish Catholics at the time so I felt awful about the possibility of being connected with him... but it’s only recently that I have been hearing about another part of the story around him

[@giovanni6636]

Anyone who’s against Irish catholics can’t be all bad

[@davidlittle7182]

Mad how a professor can talk about 'the British Nation' 1 minute into this

[@davidlittle7182]

also, if he was fighting Catholicism, why did he invade and occupy Protestant Scotland?

[@eliasharrison9782]

@@davidlittle7182 He invaded Scotland because the Covenanters had declared Charles II king and threatened to reignite the Civil War. You should read about Cromwell’s largely positive view of the Scots, even in light of their treachery: he saw them as fellow instigators of Godly rule and members of the Elect. There is a reason why Dundee does not have the same resonance in Scotland as Drogheda or Wexford in Ireland; it was not a war prosecuted against the antichrist, or genocidal as some would call the conquest of Ireland, but one borne out of political expediency and as such the occupation was a peaceable one. The most contentious element of the occupation for Scottish Presbyterians was Cromwell’s relatively lenient religious tolerance among the Godly, shattering the covenanter’s enforced religious uniformity.

[@davidlittle7182]

@@eliasharrison9782 Can I just stop you at "Scots, even in light of their treachery"? Also it's lovely to see apologists explaining that invading a weaker neighbour as being justified because they wanted to chose their own monarch. Your 'it wasn't as bad as Ireland' reasoning is very LOL, and you speak of Presbyterians as some sort of protest contingent rather than the national religion of Scotland that Cromwell interfered in (somehow now being framed as some sort of mercy mission). Lastly, you do know that Dundee and Dunbar are not the same place? 3500 POWs died and 400 transported to the Americas. "as such the occupation was a peaceable one" tho, aye

[@eliasharrison9782]

@@davidlittle7182 The Scots were being treacherous when they broke the terms of the Solemn League and Covenant and invaded England in 1648, having previously been in alliance in with the Parliamentarians. Your mention of invading a weaker neighbour is ironic given that it was the Scots who invaded England multiple times during the Civil War. And yes I do know that Dunbar and Dundee are different places; Dundee was the most significant siege during the Cromwellian invasion of Scotland and as such makes the best point of comparison with Drogheda and Wexford (both also sieges in the conquest of Ireland).

[@davidlittle7182]

@@eliasharrison9782 tell me you don't understand the Covenant without saying you don't understand the Covenant. It was literally a pledge for Presbyterians to help their English allies militarily, then (according to Encyclopdia Britannica states) "When Oliver Cromwell and the Independents gained control of England, they had little sympathy for the Presbyterians and ignored the covenant". Isn't it ironic you think English revisionism justifies occupation of Scotland with made-up treachery?

[@martincooper8611]

Just about sums up the world today - 'hero or villain'. In terms of maturity the human animal is at the very bottom of the ladder. We have actually regressed in time to the point where an entire world hides under the covers at the onset of a virus. What a truly disgusting coward the human is.

[@davemi00]

Cromwell did single handedly what our founders did together, Overthrow Monarchy. And like G Washington refused to be made a King.

[@ben67890]

or rather they did what Cromwell did. only it worked better there because they could rule with mob mentality

[@davemi00]

ben67890 - This is the 1st Time I’ve Ever said this to a Comment, You have made the Most interesting Reply, ben. Most interesting. After we lost the States Funding the Federal Government in 1913 and we were Enslaved by the IRS to pay the Debt of a Fed Reserve Bank that had True Independent Power to Create Money, Control Interest Rates and Fractionalize Loans to Banks. The MOB has learned to Give us “FREE STUFF” that they Loan to us and we get the Bill for it, while that Creates Inflation that Depreciates our Spending Dollars, that they leave in our tiny pockets. And, you Said that All in 1 sentence - Genius ben, absolutely Genius !! 😂

[@Prideace93]

And don't forget, he declared himself as Lord Protector (same as King) in the end after Civil War

[@davemi00]

@@Prideace93 - Yes Cromwell did.

[@tooreal3022]

King in all but name

[@B00bik]

What he fighted for? Disunity of church and religious zealotry. Law and order that he broke and ruined? State that he pushed into civil war? Kingdom he unlawfully depeived of a king? What good he did? Fought for pairlament that he stuffed with his supported and finally disolved because it was useless, and make himself a king in an image of octavian but without support of public. British Sulla but worse. Because Sulla's legacy lead into reforms of roman state into roman empire and cromwellian were just lost years.

[@eugenebell3166]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, we base that opinion in part to what we are told, and in part to what we want to believe ourselves, because we weren't actually there. I have just read the book by the celebrated Irish author Tom Reilly entitled :Cromwell an honourable enemy. It was a real eye opener in which he dispels many myths of Cromwell's cruelty in Drogheda which is were most of the popular criticism of Cromwell is voiced. I recommend the book, especially for the closed minded.

[@Mermaid404]

I dont need a book my Ancestor was kidnapped and sold by him! That tells me all I need to know. He was 10 years old!

[@galoglaich3281]

Eugene Bell Whether drogheda happened the way most people believe doesn't absolve him of anything he was still responsible for the loss of a third of the population and laid the building blocks of the protestant ascendancy and it turn causing the conditions of that lead to the famine.

[@whoifwhat]

he tried hard please people but when he saw he couln't turned bad !

[@malcolmabram2957]

If you are a leader you will please some of the people all of the time, and please all of the people some of the time, but you will never please all of the people all of the time.

[@jordanthomas4379]

to answer the Lenin question at the start, Yes Lenin was a villain, for sure he brought down the Romanov dynasty and helped end 600 years of Tsarist oppression, and after doing so he ushered in something far worse.

[@russischergrenadier5377]

It wasnt even him that overthrew the Romanovs. He overthrew a freely elected Constituent Assembly, where the majority were socialists and the bolshevik party were second. But it didn't fit them, so they overthrew it by brute force and imposed such a brutal tyranny, never really seen before in history. So, he is an utter scumbag and now is now burning in hell.

[@G.P.Telemann4261]

Complete bollocks, the average Russian lived far better in the Soviet Union than under the tsar

[@MidnightRambler]

Just a driven English patriot

[@nancygee1156]

He was my direct ancestor . I support what he did.

[@brainbiter4267]

Nancy Gee that Demon is burning in Hell forever Worst scum to ever walk the earth!!

[@darkloom3919]

you support the genocide of innocents?

[@ruairiwaterford18]

Idiot

[@interestpart260]

It’s healthy, though takes a balanced equanimous mind to view our ancestors in truth, outside of our genetic connection to them. We carry the burden of their inheritance.

[@wantanamera]

@@darkloom3919 If they are Catholics, yes.

[@dr.leftfield9566]

It does depend on personal opinion but as the learned man says he was a man of his time. As a military man his success for me was ending the war by any means at his disposal. Would i have provoked and participated in Regicide when i was in more or less full control of the military?. No. There were options. Would i have again mainly for the reasons above acted so brutally in Ireland? No. If Ireland was so problematic for whatever reason it could have been controlled economically that can be just as destructive without shedding blood. But i do have a 21st century mind.

[@abehambino]

Well, you have a 21st century mind, and the benefit of hindsight. And both those things have developed they way they because of past experiences. We will also perhaps never really know how much of what these atrocities were done in good faith. It’s rarely as simple as the Final Solution, and a lot of times things escalate to a point far beyond what was originally intended. Case in point, the English Civil War. Do you think either side started out wanting that kind of bloodshed?

[@anthonyburke5656]

If he had confined himself to England, he would be one of my heroes, but he didn’t, so, he remains one of the “could have” people

[@pennyawful861]

Lenin did not free the Russians from the tears. The February revolution overthrew the Russian empire. Lenin overthrew Russias first ever democracy and replaced with a communist dictatorship.

[@DanielRyan84]

I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to find someone making this observation. Overthrowing the Provisional Gov't is a little different from forcing the czar to abdicate. But again, Lenin surely ordered the murder of the Romanov's so maybe that's what he means!

[@Mr.Patrick_Hung]

The so-called provisional government of Russia collapsed on its own. Lenin, just gave it a bit of a push. He had more popular support.

[@patricklamshear6662]

We need Cromwell now.

[@darkloom3919]

I think the Irish would have something very different to say about that.

[@zenithuae4799]

@@darkloom3919 lol ya

[@eaglesfan226]

@@darkloom3919 Yeah. He was England’s Scrooge. Aside from the holy war, Cromwell banned Christmas.

[@TechTins_Projects]

Cromwell's story has also greatly suffered from revisionist history in the 17th century by ruthless monarchist censors.

[@kevwhufc8640]

Suffered how ??

[@kevwhufc8640]

@Henry Pollock you have chronic* heart disease , seriously ? If so I hope you get better asap .

[@kevwhufc8640]

@ThoughtCrime what a thought provoking intelligent reply 🙄

[@kevwhufc8640]

@Tech Tins Cromwell story is under exaggerated if anything. Nobody talks about the atrocities he & his parliamentarians did . Supposed to be fighting for a parliament and ended up making himself king in all but name. .

[@johnbowkett5920]

@@kevwhufc8640 Bullshit !

[@jamestreacy1]

Oh next questions should be is stalin a hero ? Asking if cromwell is a hero is like asking if stalin is a hero. They were both cruel tyrants who did atrotious things and you could argue that they were men of their times but that doesnt justify their actions.

[@BolshevikCarpetbagger1917]

Both were cruel men, this is true. But Oliver Cromwell was at least a revolutionary and took an uncompromising stance against the feudal order that which he overthrew leading the English Revolution. Joseph Stalin on the other hand was nothing but a bureaucrat, and a virtual zero in the Russian Revolution.

[@jamestreacy1]

@@BolshevikCarpetbagger1917 true but Hitler also took an uncompromising stance against the wiemar republic and treaty of versaille and he is rightfully seen as one of the most evil rulers in history.

[@jiashan1909]

0:20 Was Lenin a hero or a villain? the educated Russian people, that I met, told me - as I was born and grown up in Germany: "Be grateful! You had just one of them. But we had two of them!" To make it clear: They meant Hitler vs. Lenin & Stalin.

[@mauzki-]

Stalin is no where near comparable to Lenin, Lenin was authoritarian out of necessity but intended to loosen that as Russia developed and even wrote to not let stalin take his place before he died. It also must be take into account stalin for all of his wrongs never had that as intention it was aimed for the greater good (no matter how bad that actually went originally) where as Hitler from the get go wanted to kill minorities.

[@mauzki-]

@Based Eagle so intent doesn't matter? Some nurse giving dosage of medicine and killing a patient is the same as a dude killing someone in a school shooting?

[@mauzki-]

@Based Eagle The worst of events that happened under him where incompetence and disorganization following from this half way feudal and capitalist state He generally improved the lives of Russians and set a foundations to further show this, the first country to legalize homosexuality, removing any process that let the law arrest gay people for being gay, he legalized abortion, solved the homeless crisis and ensured education was provided to every person in Russia, he stopped the vodka industry controlling Russia (as they had under the tsar) The times he was authoritarian is because in his eyes he had no other choice and was in the aims of harm reduction and protecting the will of the revolution. Their wasn't these invasion's nor purges under Lenin or the mass gulag system we saw with Stalin. Any invasion that happened was after him. He fought so many fundamental problems with Russia, and no purge, gulag etc was under Lenin.

[@ciaranoconnell4783]

@@mauzki- You're either lying or don't know Russian history. The Red Terror, the creation of concentration camps or gulags, the constant use of violence to carry out his objectives and/or brutally murder any opposition to his ideology all happened under Lenin's watch and he actively advocated it. Lenin created the Emergency Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage or Cheka for short. This was the first secret police in Russia which was nothing more than a gang of psychos and thugs who went around murdering hundreds of thousands of people based on nothing but hearsay, rumours, bloodlust, settling scores against anyone they didn't like, etc.....Lenin never once tried to rein any of it in nor did he lose any sleep over all the innocents that were savagely murdered at the altar of his poisonous & horrific ideology. Lenin called for the murder of Kulaks everywhere if they resisted because they were supposedly boarding food. Trying to make out that mass deaths and evil under Lenin only came about as a result of ''incompetence and disorganization'' is one of the most brazen, lying communist apologist pieces of propaganda I have ever seen. Lenin was one of the most evil and worst mass murderers in history where only Stalin, Hitler and Mao can be said to have been worst. Attempting to blame it all on Stalin as though the evil only started later on under him is pure bullshit. Stalin murdered millions because of paranoia and he was a psycho. That, at least is a reason, as to why. But Lenin had no excuse. He would have murdered the same number that Stalin did if he felt it would have gotten him his perfect communist utopia. That's cold blooded evil with no excuse, a true cultist in his beliefs, not some mental insanity like Stalin definitely had.

[@fredbarker9201]

@@ciaranoconnell4783 Napoleon is so much better than all those 20th century leaders and I hate when people try and put him in the same category (I know you didn’t even mention him, just making a point)

[@chrissystewart5400]

Gosh I don't know what to think I recently found on my maternal ancestry goes back to his sister ... so he then is also related by that... I honestly don't like what I read about him ... but I can't change history can I . No one can rewrite history it is what it is .

[@EdMcF1]

The speaker completely discredits himself by referring to Lenin as freeing Russia from the Tsars, he didn't, the monarchy had fallen before the Bolshevik Revolution, and Lenin was a bloodthirsty murderer far worse than any Tsar.

[@shtony2717]

I agree. The moment he started with that I did not take him seriously.

[@JScarper]

I completely agree. The moment someone says something inaccurate, they can't possibly be correct about anything ever again. It's just physically impossible.

[@himathsiriniwasa7646]

Cringe

[@zenonlopezwallace568]

Like cromwell

[@lucabrasi4990]

You are right. What gives him away are his follow--up comments on Churchill. Typical left-wing "historian". Deliberately picking bits and pieces so he can distort history. Funny how he puts Churchill on that "spotlight" in yet, casually refers to Lenin as a mere liberator of the people.

[@stevenmajor9513]

Er what? Cromwell didn't prove you can run England without a King. On the contrary. Why do you think Charles 2 came back? Why did they offer Oliver the crown? I found that comment very poor.

[@RogerJJSmith]

Agree.

[@lilliemay8712]

I do not study or do homwork or learn about hearos

[@Oprey22]

That's evident!

[@robreke]

was Lenin a hero or a villain? Give me a break dude. a villain to the nth degree. I can't believe this has to be explained to anyone

[@Oprey22]

Then you need to get around a bit more. For example in parts of India communists hold power and quite a lot of boys are called Stalin and Lenin.

[@robreke]

@@Oprey22 useful idiots

[@kevinrwhooley9439]

Cromwells Britain seems to have been as much a democratic republic as modern day Iran is. In that it has the veneer of being democratic republic when in reality it was a theocratic dictatorship.

[@ciaranoconnell4783]

The fucker banned the celebration of Christmas. Nothing more needs to be said. That's straight up theocracy.

[@JEJAK5396]

This dude just said Lenin was a hero.

[@josefespinosam1196]

Villain

[@Jodonho]

This guy is an expert in excusing the most abhorrent behavior.

[@Jodonho]

@Richard Grover learn to write and people might take your opinions seriously.

[@donbarzinitut]

Collective Consciousness Capitalist bankers you vermin.

[@JosephsCoat]

Comparing Lenin to Cromwell? The ideological fuel for the two were polar opposites. And the end goals, one wanting to restore order while the other wanting to destroy order, makes the comparison laughable.

[@douglaspearch3813]

Of course he’s a hero - beheaded the monarch :-) Ended feudalism and brought in the new world.

[@jennifermoriarty2188]

He became a dictator ...and would not let people have fun

[@douglaspearch3813]

@@jennifermoriarty2188 Nonsense there were other forces at play - Just look at what happened to him when the rich manoeuvred themselves back into power. We have the beginnings of modern democracy because of him.

[@johnmeskill2015]

When I saw the news that Queen Elizabeth II had died, I was wondering if Prince Charles was going to take a different name as king. He became Charles III.

[@douglaspearch3813]

@@johnmeskill2015 Yep the other two were deposed - Hopefully, it'll be third time lucky and no more royalty anymore.

[@johnpaulveaney3745]

Selective History.He hasn't a clue

[@stephencross1230]

was you there? Have you studied history at PhD level? Or just another moron of KZbin?

[@charlieoscar09]

Shame he sat on the fence

[@jBread28]

'Fighting the antichrist' Wut

[@bytheway1031]

Oliver Cromwell 🎂 25-04-2023

[@EarthGirlTerra]

Dunno, fellah. Are Andrew Jackson and Adolf Hitler considered heroes by the Amerindians and Slavs, respectively?

[@Cybernetic800]

They must teach different history in England I think then again if you committed some of the crimes they did here for 800 years you wouldn't want to talk about it. Cromwell killed hundreds of thousands of Irish, yet the guy in video saying he was a man of his time. You could argue the same for Hitler or Stalin. He was evil whether it was today or 200 or 2000 years ago!

[@EarthGirlTerra]

@@Cybernetic800 excellent point.

[@honkerhonkersson9694]

@@Cybernetic800 war is war, and lets not forget about the Irish protestants that got massacred by the catholics years before Cromwell arrived. you reap what you sow! This dosent mean i support the atrocities that happend against the Irish catholics. i condemn the atrocities committed by both sides. But you need to take both sides into account. Instead of blaming it all on Cromwell, let's instead see it for what is it. Years of bad blood between both religions in Ireland. Years of corruption and sabre rattling by the catholic lords of Ireland lead to this tragic event.

[@justinshin2279]

Villain, saved you some time

[@andrewattenboroughtwothumb4697]

one of my ancestors fought against Cromwell

[@riva2003]

Just for the sake of fucking up king, he is a hero.

[@kirbyculp3449]

"An Arrow Against All Tyrants", worth reading.

[@BolshevikCarpetbagger1917]

In my opinion Oliver Cromwell was both hero and villain. He was a revolutionary who brought England out of the dark ages and into the modern world of industry and commerce; and founded the English Republic. Although a vigorous fighter against the Vatican's tyranny, Cromwell took it to the extreme resorting to anti-Catholic bigotry and killing many innocent people in both England and Ireland.

[@paulflynn6169]

'The Vatican's Tyranny' Shut up .No Catholic King chopped off his Wife's head.

[@bsands116]

Monarchy can not stop lying about him, so he was a great man.

[@finallythere100]

Villain. But I wonder what Jesus decided....

[@babyhercules9875]

Personally, I think that anyone who rebels against an unconstitutional monarchy is heroic, but history teaches us that all heroes are human and therefore imperfect

[@Funnybriton]

This man is an cromwellian apologist

[@GlazedInfants]

what a lad

[@winifredodonnell6893]

Don't have be Irishman to know what wrong or right anyway he remembers more then anyone else

[@MrLee192Gversion]

He was necessary. Basically.

[@davidwatte4673]

You’d have a highly different opinion if England was under irish rule at the time and we had a leader causing such atrocities in your country , wake up

[@Mermaid404]

Right!

[@danh5637]

"was lenin a hero" did you even just ask that. Wow.

[@strictlyunreal]

For people who understand history, the fact that Lenin was a hero is not even a question. On the other hand, victims of CIA propaganda have your reaction.

[@danh5637]

@@strictlyunreal CIA propaganda? Whilst thats the cutest (and most cliched) excuse that sympathisers make. You're basically saying that it's an invented lie that communist Russia was a greying miserable place to live, that people weren't ruled by force. That human flourishing, and prosperity was higher than in the west. That the prison camps were a good thing. That having a differing opinion to the regime was actually allowed and freedom of speech was widespread? That the quality of life was excellent and not i fact mired the 'proliteriat' equally in a low standard. That starving areas weren't cannibalising to survive. That it didn't actually produce the most bifurcated society ever where the party were rolling around in Limos with an abundance of food and plenty whilst the rest of the country was living off soup bones and mismanagement of agriculture because of their refusal to believe in genetics. That the destroying of incentives and theft of private business and private land actually had the reverse effect and led to food shortages. That it didn't in fact produce a regressive effect much like a time machine and instead of being progressive actually halted and reversed progress? That the few at the top who were in charge were absorbing and amassing great amounts of wealth whilst the rest of the people, who they ostensibly claimed to be doing this for the greater good, were actually living lives of despair who had to also live them silently. That neighbours weren't spying on neighbours for having 'wrong think'. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you truly believe the intentions of Lenin and his ilk were righteous and pure and things just got away from him, and he was trying to uplift his people. But at some point you have to look at facts and evidence and say this isn't working out as I planned and is producing victims instead of harmony. That its lowering the standards for everyone (except themselves) and it was actually Americas fault that an enclosed self contained state controlled system failed. Which you must accept seems absurd. If you control all of the inputs and outputs and the people are de facto prisoners in such a system, you've got to admit it seems a stretch to believe that considering the parties tight grip on everything that it would be some outside forces fault? If its prone to such a thing, that surely would suggest that Lenins system itself clearly wasn't that perfect to begin with if it can be toppled essentially by bad PR from a foreign land! Or maybe, in reality, when you destroy incentives, competition, and efficiencies you actually destroy the very motor that works in the interests of everyone. I know people who are old enough and managed to leave that system and they told me first hand exactly what it was like. And it's not the utopia you believe. And if you think it is the very same systems are still in operation around the world, and as you seem to think that they are actually great and that its just western 'cia propaganda' that is misrepresenting them, I'm sure you are either living in North Korea now and not enjoying the freedom of the west or you plan to move there in solidarity? I suspect however you're just a standard commie hypocrite, and are ok with it being done unto others but not yourself.

[@meatmachine144]

​@@strictlyunreal Good job, tovarish. You have delayed your trip to the gulag by 12 hours for your loyalty.

[@strictlyunreal]

@@danh5637 Did you just describe Capitalism?

[@strictlyunreal]

@@meatmachine144 You perfectly embody my reply.

[@acm8654]

However kills a king is my friend

[@Henry99-07]

I protest at the term ‘English Civil War’, it was instead the ‘War of the Three Kingdoms’

[@sachinvenugopal6926]

Cromwell was the Hitler , Mao , Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Tojo, Pol pote, of his time .. but kings weren't any better ..

[@AlexGordonMaoist]

Champion of the People

[@High_rise12]

The guy sent the army into parliament to arrest his opponents, he was no better than Charles the first.

[@AlexGordonMaoist]

@@High_rise12 cromwell represents a change of mindest in the popular consciousness, he begins the process of establishing the people as supreme authority. This process is still comtinuing but he established this in the European/Anglo ideological sphere

[@paullittle5200]

To an extent.Although he agressively suppressed any who opposed his political ideas,such as the levellers,but at the same time gave religious freedom to all,which is what makes him such an enigmatic person, you can't really get to fathom out his real motives, although his religious beliefs played a major part.

[@user-eq7xe3oe5d]

Cromwell was a true warlord criminal. I'm a true royalist.

[@dr.spectre9697]

Lenin was a villain. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[@MrDavidp180]

Absolute Hero

[@zenonlopezwallace568]

For Perfid Albion perhaps

[@Vagus32000]

Cromwell was as much a tyrant as Charles was.

[@itsvortex0162]

Down with Cromwell we dont claim him

[@StanleyJones365]

Who are ‘we’?

[@Mike20216]

Hero but with many flaws

[@downrightannoying3922]

i think he was a villain simply because i don’t like him. normalise being completely biased with no evidence in my opinion.

[@jBread28]

based

[@georgebardsley7129]

The man was a petty dictator

[@Oprey22]

Well, he wasn't a liberal democratic leader. They hadn't been invented yet.

[@darrenjamieson9711]

He created The Industrial Age!

[@annoconnor2735]

Evil villain, greedy murderer.

[@eaglesfan226]

Not greedy, per say. More like a megalomaniac.

[@RevdGeraldJones]

Chucky de Turd needs another Cromwell! Long live the Republic of England!!!!

[@carbonicoyster5907]

Enemy of the anti-Christ, therefore must be a hero.

[@gavinperry8433]

He lived too long to see himself become the villian..... But he is also the reason democracy exists in UK

[@angloaust1575]

He was neither a hero or a villain Just a man doing his duty appointed By god!

[@zenonlopezwallace568]

Do not blame God for this bastard