5 Terrible Trains (That I Wish Weren't) | History in the Dark

Sometimes you wish things were different. Sometimes you see a locomotive and you are hoping the best for it. Then it disappoints you. Repeatedly. Such is life.
0:00 - Intro
2:08 - GE P30CH
5:16 - PRR Class FF1
7:52 - Baldwin 60000
10:52 - PRR Class K5
15:13 - PRR Class S2
🚂 Further reading 🚂
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_P30CH
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyl...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyl...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyl...
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#trains #railfan #top5

[@HistoryintheDark]

So, due to a grievous error that I cannot tolerate as it spreads misinformation, I have elected to retract today's top 5 and reupload it at a later date once the corrections have been made. To compensate for this issue, I have made NEXT week's Top 5 available for all of you right this second. My apologies for the confusion.

[@wolframxx5580]

No worries, at least you actually acknowledged the mistake unlike many others would.

[@evangaines2303]

No problems bro

[@bdub215]

i knew i wasnt crazy when i saw two videos in a day.

[@mynx_uk]

no worries, how about, trains that apear in music videos, eg, KLF last train to trancentral, Queen, Break through. just for starters

[@laserhawk64]

Also you left out an entry in this one, I think. "All of British Rail's diesels that sucked!" :P

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

Honorable mention in my case: Baldwin Dr-6-4-2000 Sharknoses

[@zaho87]

The Sharknose... he mentioned the Sharknose... I want the Sharknose... GIVE ME THE SHARKNOSE NOW!!!!!!

[@mortensen1961]

@@zaho87: Uh, what's a Sharknose?

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

@@mortensen1961It’s a style of streamlining with an angular and sharp appearance, that appeared on locomotives such as the PRR T1’s and Baldwin’s RF-16, among a few more.

[@drtrack4856]

BP-20 for the win!

[@alexhajnal107]

@@mortensen1961 Angular streamlining. What's special is that the top of the nose juts out above the bottom. Hence the name.

[@mityace]

The low speed consumption was apparently true of all turbines. The giant GE gas-turbines built for Union Pacific had the same issue. i.e. They also burned as much fuel idling as they did doing 50-60 mph (80-100 km/hr). Since Union Pacific was out west where there were long runs with few if any stops, UP was able to get some use out of them. Not surprisingly, they were still trade in after about 10 years give or take.

[@Austin-cn8vh]

Even warships had the same problem with turbine engines. When direct drive was involved they just could not reasonably run the turbine at anything other than max speed. It took reduction gearing to make turbines true powers emerge in terms of ships. This now gives me this terrible mental image of a turbine driven Shay.

[@NitroFury]

PRR has a habit of making experimental Steam Locomotives.

[@williamclarke4510]

That's how you learn.Experimemt and learn.

[@lucasgeesey4719]

Experamental trains in general. if theres a wired train PRR will probabply give it a shot. -sorry my spelling is so bad

[@00Zy99]

Juniata is another name for Altoona in Pennsy railfan nomenclature. The city of Altoona is located along the Juniata River. So the official name of the shops is Juniata, which is what the plates say, but the Juniata shops are located in the city of Altoona (or is it just over the town line? whatever). But, yeah. If you go to Altoona station and stand on the bridge over the tracks, you can look North and see the main erecting shop just around a bend. There are more shop buildings across the tracks from the station building, no longer in railroad use.

[@pras12100]

Another interesting video. On the other side of the pond a couple of multiple-unit suggestions: The APT (class 370) . If only the prototype had worked well and there had been a class of these in service. The Blue Pullmans (class 251). It would of been interesting to see what would have happened without the ride problems.

[@ChrisCooper312]

The APT was a classic British Rail failure. Rushed into service before she was ready. Trying to many new things at once (the hydrokinetic brakes could have been avoided). Too ambitious (aiming for a 155mph top speed when even 125mph would have been a big improvement). Cancelled due to politics before there was chance to get them working. Oh and let's not forget the great British press that loves nothing more than to talk down the country and it's achievements.

[@poowg2657]

I remember seeing pooches DIT (Dead In Tow) all the time on the front of Amtrak trains tucked in behind running E units.

[@AlcoLoco251]

I'd say an honorable mention would be the FM Trainmaster. They were excellent engines that didn't have any mechanical or operational issues. They were the most powerful locomotives of their time and could do literally anything. Their downfall was their unique prime movers that require a specific way of performing maintenance on it. This method wasn't liked by shop crews and they were pushed off as low priority by most shops.

[@Dallen9]

The problem with the PRR S2 was more of the fact that it was 1945..... and the turbine system was pulled essentially from a scrapped liberty ship. She's actually the most successful steam turbine ever built outside of the only steam turbine locomotive that's still around. Again when the Diesel electrics came out the writing was on the wall post war and the S2 to remain relevant needed a MUC system. So when they started the big transition from steam to Diesel she was on the list with the oldest to go when she finally went in for maintenance. She ran the entire time after 1946 without taking a trip to the shop for anything more than a tire change. She used between 11-17% more steam at slow speeds after her final tune up before she was ran into the scrap yard. I believe she ran on the trail blazer route alongside the S1 the 6-4-4-6 duplex.

[@michigandon]

Liberty ships were powered by reciprocating engines. Victory ships were turbine-reduction.

[@haweater1555]

5. Both the GE P3OCH and the GM SDP40, with 6 axles, were hampered by the spec that called them to be able to be converted to freight service should Amtrak fail. 4. They are indeed 2-6-6-2 wheel arrangement. The outermost large "wheels" next to the leading axle are not drive wheels and don't touch the rails. They serve to connect a shaft to the side rods that drive the traction wheel axles. On the middle of the shaft is a gear which is driven by the motors above up in the carbody. 1. Like other direct turbines, there was a separate smaller turbine engine unit just for operating in reverse. Turbines cannot run backwards and a geared reversing transmission was impractical.

[@aj3751]

I wonder if Lionel or any of the other scale model corporations would consider making a Baldwin 60000? Lionel especially has been jumping into the whole fantasy paint scheme thing. This locomotive, painted in a myriad of class 1 railroad schemes, would be AWESOME

[@JChristiansenLuckythebrony2222]

Giving that locomotive the chance she never got in real life in model form is the best idea for a fantasy scheme ever and every model manufacturer should do it!

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

Perfect for a Lionel starter set with 027 curved track.

[@aj3751]

@@MustangsTrainsMowers Or as a scale engine

[@KH990j]

My pick would be the GE E60. When it was used at Black Mesa it was a heavy hauler. This locomotive would have been more successful had electric lines been more prominent in the US. I also wish Amtrak would have resolved the derailment issue with these. They look great in that Heritage II theme. I also like their boxy shape similar to the reason you like the P30.

[@michigandon]

In some Alternate Universe, the MILW Management was smart enough to NOT abandon Lines West, and E60s are hauling freight through the Cascade Mountains even as I type this.

[@KH990j]

@michigandon they may have been replaced by now. Black Mesa, the longest user of E60s, discontinued the use of E60s in 2019.

[@Eric_Hunt194]

The Pennsylvania Railroad is the new British Railways... One for "part two" of this "if only they weren't crappy" thing would be the British Rail Class 180- lovely trains to travel on when they aren't catching fire or throwing a piston out and dumping oil all over the East Coast Main Line- which unfortunately they usually are!

[@MrCateagle]

I'll have to disagree on the PRR. They had a lot on this list because they experimented a lot to work on improved locomotives. In some ways they exemplify Edison's 10% inspiration/90% perspiration rule of development.

[@steven8417]

Bought my MTH "Big Liz" in '08 - and I still have her. One of the most badass loco's in history. It's a crying shame she was scrapped 😢

[@lucasgeesey4719]

I built her in Minecraft and in my would she is being used as a School house so better then being scraped. Big liz may you be known for gennerations to come

[@tidepoolclipper8657]

Honestly, while the F40PH is one of my big favorites, I also wish that the GE P30CH didn't fail. Especially as these were less likely to derail than the SDP40F. An honorable mention I want to provide is the Pennsylvania Railroad class T1. To some extent, I wish that that diesel locomotives weren't already at the beginning stages of domination and that the mass produced versions were as good as the prototypes.

[@Sigil_Firebrand]

I feel like the PRR will be a running participant on these lists, like how BR is on the bad trains list. Cause they had a lot of often great, but strange, ideas. Great video either way, and good points!

[@Gearz-365]

Big Liz is one of those locomotives that wasnt necessarily bad, she was just way ahead of her time. I'm sure if they actually preserved her instead of scrapping her, she might've actually been a success, even in the modern world

[@pilsudski36]

Ding! Right on the money.

[@retrogamelover2012]

I guess that's what replicas are for. Kind of like with the P2.

[@Doll.The.Solver]

2:08 ah yes the GE P30CH, the forgotten absolute trash counterpart to the EMD F40PH, now the P30CH was the complete opposite of the EMD F40PH, as in, the P30CH, would constantly derail and try to kill its occupants, always had engine fires, and even the windows fell out on it, while the F40PH was insanely successful, did high speed intercity mainline express service despite its original purpose being for only regional service, and being absolutely fantastic and amazing, surpassing all expectations for it, and was by far the most successful and famous Amtrak locomotive to ever exist, the F40PH is still on service on other railroads to this day!

[@adensrailfanningproductions]

buddy the video hasnt even started

[@fanofeverything30465]

​@@adensrailfanningproductionsPatreon

[@adensrailfanningproductions]

@@fanofeverything30465 my bad

[@fanofeverything30465]

@@adensrailfanningproductions Never mind

[@MrCateagle]

Along the lines of the PRR's P-5a(modified), it would be interesting to see a FF-1(modified) with a streamlined steeple cab. The PRR is likely on this list often because they were willing to experiment on locomotive designs.

[@MrCateagle]

Note that the P-5a(modified) was developed after an accident involving a P-5a box cab and a stalled cement truck on a crossing.

[@MRTransportVideos]

Just a little "what if" question - do you think Big Liz would have been successful if she had been built as a smaller 2-4-4-2 unit, producing a bit less tractive effort? Would that have made her more 'manageable'?

[@williamclarke4510]

I have heard that Baldwin president Samuel Vauclain was on the Franklin Institute's board when it was donated.

[@JBofBrisbane]

Strictly speaking, as Big Liz was articulated, its wheel arrangement was 1-C-0+0-C-1, or by Whyte notation, 2-6-0+0-6-2.

[@JChristiansenLuckythebrony2222]

12:42 the Juniata Locomotive Shop is a part of the Altoona Works complex.

[@Marc_von_Hoffrichter]

Cheers mate, thanks for the video.

[@Hogger280]

The 60000 failed because of the water tube boiler, not the running gear; the UP 4-12-2 proved that.

[@reidthenavyengineproductio7002]

American Steam Turbines: Dinosaurs of the Rails

[@roguerailroader4132]

You know I’m surprised no narrow gauge engines pop up on this list, at least the ones I have watched.

[@joshjones3408]

Big liz was that a fat joke 😆😆😆😆😆 big chungus girl friend 😆 great video 👍👍👍

[@Brickticks]

Poor Whoosh. Could be worse, at least you could try building a Lego rendition of her. Anyways, I gotta go, I got Lego locomotives to run, and just a couple days ago I rebuilt and overhauled my custom diesel switcher. So I’m gonna go stare at that while my Super Chief does track cleaning laps. Rockatoa, Brickticks out!

[@shimesu443]

So you're saying that GE... screwed the pooch? I'll see myself out.

[@trainglen22]

Wow, who would have thought that the Pennsylvania railroad would be like British Rail.

[@amtrakproductions-mx9ib]

Please do more best trains and add the JNR class D51 2-8-2s, they were built between 1936 and 1951, a total of 1194 were built, and today 174 are preserved

[@joshjones3408]

Y'all are the reasons y this content remains.... making me snort Zoloft 😆😆😆😆😆 no really Great video 👍👍👍

[@SPACE_NERD_2009]

I'm surprised that no ALFRED E. Pearl man

[@blairterry9435]

Here’s an idea. Do a video on New York Central Hudson 5344!

[@micoasters]

A history in the dark video, coaster idiots, canobie coaster review all In one day? My night is set!

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Poor old Pennsy ... the only rail operations which had no duff locos were the ones which never did anything of note. It's a bit like NOT throwing ANY undewear at the wall in case some doesn't stick!!!

[@DrFruikenstein]

The S2 should've been a hybrid of sorts. If the pilots could have been either electric, or powered with smaller turbines along with a compound throttle sending steam to the smaller turbines first, it wouldn't have been so inefficient at slow speeds. Nevermind the fact that it would have failed anyway due to being almost impossible to maintain from being so complex. But the inefficiency would have been cured, at least.

[@POTC_Oscarandfriens]

PRR is the new British-(REDACTED)

[@andrewrife6253]

I wish the triplex locomotive was more successful. It ended up being used as a pusher on mountains with good results but couldn't keep steam pressure for long.

[@ALCO-C855-fan]

S2! S2! S2! WE LOVE YOU!!!!!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ And all the otheres too.^^

[@BlackNovember_94]

My favourite terrible train that I wish it weren’t would be the GER Class A55. It worked but it couldn’t be used after its experiment because it was so heavy for the bridges in the area @ the time.

[@neohistoryfan1014]

The PRR K5 is basically a K4 on steroids!

[@the_crystalg7111]

So, hear me out, they say Steam Turbines are inefficient because they are fuel hungry, because they constantly need steam to run the turbine, but what if the throttle, instead of connecting to a gearbox, was connected like a standard steam engine and was just how much steam you are putting into the turbine, and the turbine then connecting to gears to run the wheels?

[@the_crystalg7111]

Also add a condenser to feed some used condensed water back into the boiler and run it on oil instead of coal, because I have not heard of an oil fired steam turbine

[@mikebrown3772]

@@the_crystalg7111 Most steam turbines had condensers - but the only successful ones didn't.

[@trainglen22]

The P30CH are regrettably a bad locomotive. Thank god for the F40PH!

[@61936]

If they took everything from the 60000 and gave it 8 or 6 driving wheels it would’ve probably sold well

[@Dallen9]

Not really.... the big issue with 60000 was the compound cylinders. Compound locomotives were just maintenance nightmares. They worked out the issue with her fire box water tubes and some engines after her did get them but she was one of the last triple cylinder compounds made.

[@rannicel]

British Rail meet the PRR and became British Pennsylvania Rail

[@levidarling5107]

If you do a number 2 one of these, will you put the e2 tank engines in there for obvious reasons? Only because same scenario goes with me on these cute little tank engines.

[@StickwithBrooklyn]

Honestly, I don't know why they could have saved here until 1960 or 70 or something and then use her until the rolling stock could handle her in those years.

[@Tool-Meister]

As far as I can tell, the optimal route for the K5 was on an American Flyer toy train layout.😜. The K5 was AF’s premium Pacific from about 1949 through about 1956. Did it accurately mimic the real life version? Not so much. I have six of them spanning from the year they were introduced to their last year of production. They look great in their 3/16” scale.

[@jordandorsett3106]

2:09 Amtrakguy365 said the Pooch P30CH looks like a Good Dog 🐕

[@16jan1986]

The Danish made MY loco....1200 series

[@matthewpowell2429]

I know. The Amtrak P30CH and PRR S2 are two of my favorite engines, and ones that I wished were preserved. I even have a Thomas AU Series planned with both engines preserved.

[@michigandon]

Can't help but wonder what the S2 *sounded* like. Do any audio recordings of her even exist?

[@HistoryintheDark]

I don't think so. In fact I only know of a single bit of film of her and it has no sound.

[@atshinkansen7439]

With no cylinders, I imagine there would be no chugging sound, as with a standard steam locomotive.

[@michigandon]

@@atshinkansen7439 Of course there wouldn't be any "chuff chuff" sound. I'm thinking that, running WFO @ track speed, it probably sounded like a "muffler load test" on a stationary boiler.

[@kingofthepod5169]

Ah yes the GE U18B. Mechanically fine, user adequate, just cheaper to use an old GP7/9/18.

[@AgentSpockAgentSpock]

Well well well it look like someone have beef with the Pennsylvania Railroad

[@tobycaunt9257]

Still waiting on the kitsin stul deisel steam hybrid

[@michigandon]

Is that that Russian locomotive? He actually did a video on that a while back.

[@Amigafur]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Juniata another name for Altoona Works?

[@robertwilloughby8050]

In a pat 2.... you've guessed it...... Br Class 27! Wait a minute.....did I say sometime wrong? Am I persona non grata? Am I the misinformation leak? Help! Help!😰😈👿

[@Hogger280]

Come on now, A Y-6 or an EM-1 or a three unit Milwaukee road box cab had just as much drawbar pull.

[@tidepoolclipper8657]

In regards to airplanes and ships; here are in my opinion the ones I wish didn't fail: Airplanes = Thunderceptor (it had good performance, but better solutions arrived), P-51H Mustang (while they were available for the Korean War, there were way more P-51D), F2G Corsair (aka, Super Corsair), Heinkel He 112, (BF109's most notable competition), CF-105 Arrow, YF-12 interceptor, F-20 Tigershark (basically a more capable F-5), XF-92A (mostly because I think it looks cool and was once going to be in a movie)... XF8U-3 Crusader 3, Arsenal VG33, B-23 Dragon, F-107 Ultra Sabre, Spruce Goose, F-16XL (understandable they selected F-15E Strike Eagle, but still), de Havilland DH.103 Hornet, La-15 (while the Soviet selecting the Mig-15 and Mig-17 is understandable, this still seemed capable on its own), Yak-141, BAC TSR-2, and Helwan Ha-300. Ships = Zumwalt (even if it can still be used as a testbed design), HMHS Britannic, HMS Hood, Type XXI Submarine, NS Savannah, SS Savannah (ironically she'd belong on a list of weakest steam ships), Wyoming schooner, Sormovich hovercraft, and ACR-6 San Diego (the only WW1 US captial ship lost). If we can include cancelled designs; Montana battleship.

[@gregrudd6983]

How about the NSW 1200 class railcars for a terrible train.

[@michigandon]

The Pooches were junk when they were new.

[@Tar171]

I have a HO Scale S2 in Tucson Red

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

Have you made a “most ugly locomotive” video? I would select that giant cab forward steam locomotive in a museum I forgot it’s number. Next would be the BL2. I used to think that the GP30 was really ugly but it’s grown on me some.

[@JackCarsonsRailroadVideos]

5:39 isn't that a 2-8-8-2 on screen?

[@crocowithaglocko5876]

No Two of the things that look like wheels are the drive shafts for the side rods

[@LehrerFamilyWest]

Convert conrail 7136 into a p30ch

[@harrisonallen651]

Poor Pooch

[@michaelosgood9876]

C'mon Darkness-- turbines are fantastic!💥💥💥

[@stephencampbell9384]

The picture of big liz would rather suggest she is a 2-8-8-2 not 2-6-6-2

[@HistoryintheDark]

Those extra “wheels” aren’t on the rails. They drive the side rods much like a steam engine’s cylinders.

[@stephencampbell9384]

@@HistoryintheDark Bloody hell, I see it now.......thought it was 8 wheels, driven from inside with a crank as a stabilizer. WOW.

[@kwproductions6737]

My favourite terrible train is the E2 class tank engines I just like Thomas and Friends ok I know they were bad designs but still

[@ashleycordery2976]

Out of all the bad British rail locomotives that could have been better from the worst trains series.... you pick nun of them.. lol

[@robertswickard8355]

Love the last comment ""SHE FAILED BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T GO SLOW "" AAAAAAAHHH !!!!!!!!!

[@sambrown6426]

Sometimes I wonder about the feasibility of a hybrid conventional/turbine steam locomotive, where for reversing and traveling at low speed, a clutch on a jackshaft can be engaged, coupling the drivers to a pair of standard cylinders, but for high-speed running, the clutch can be disengaged, and the locomotive can run off a turbine. I know that this setup is very complicated, and probably not super practical, but I wonder about it a lot.

[@Xalerdane]

Good fucking luck fitting all of that in one locomotive.

[@sambrown6426]

@@Xalerdane Yeah, I know. It would still be cool though.

[@spajdude]

Interesting topic, especially the electric locomotive. I just wish you didn't shout so much.

[@clevelandmaker386]

Alco DL 855, SD9043mac

[@obelic71]

If we are talking about REALLY bad i would include the German class 52 steamengine. Its THE engine type of the German Army and transported aprox 3.500.000 people to their deaths in death camps during the holocaust in WW2 A good relibale sturdy engine that was also used to rebuild europe after WW2 and its even in daily service today in Bosnia Herzogivina serving coal power plants! Engine 52 3789 one of the very few 100% original identical to WW2 spec class 52 locomotives made worldnews after refurbishment.. She was painted in German Army grey for several warmovies and here historic logbooks said she participated in the holocaust. Their were court cases tot get here scraped/repainted and others defending here because she was a living relic of one of the darkest parts of human history. It says enough that survivors of the holocaust stood guard and defended that locomotive so she could not be vandalized or scraped! She is still with us and i am one of the guys who wants here to thrive and survive as a witness of the holocaust long into to the furture and tell the story of a very dark painfull part of history for generations to come.

[@davidrichie9570]

Interesting material, but the delivery is annoying. Calm down.

[@jonaspierce3184]

Big Liz looks like it should be 2-8-8-2