Edmund Fitzgerald: "Don't Allow Nobody on Deck!" P-4 with Captain Darrell Walton

[@skruloos1]

I never tire of Capt Darrells commentary.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both! Thanks...HMM

[@shawndavis8438]

It's always an honor and a privilege to hear Captain Darrell's stories. The propeller blade coming off and causing the fence rail and the two vents to come off is very interesting. Maybe the blade could have caused damage to the hull as well. One thing is certain: they don't want anyone to find out because of liability. Plus, I think the Coast Guard knew they screwed up. The Morrell was a 60 year old ship when it sank, and the Bradley was only 46 when it sank. The Fitzgerald was only 17 when it sank. So, something tells me that the Coast Guard and the Insurance company are hiding the truth. It has more to it than the ship being a memorial site. Like I have said, this whole Fitzgerald tragedy is very similar to the MV Derbyshire tragedy. Anyway, thank you for posting this, Mr. Don. I always re-watch the other Fitzgerald videos. Keep up the great work

[@bluerazor7049]

Exactly, but with Oglebay out of business, it's a matter of time before the truth surfaces. No matter what, the truth will always come out.

[@jamesmccarthy5086]

Actually the Bradley was only 31. But still very young compared to how long lakers should last!

[@shawndavis8438]

Ah. My apologies for the mistake. Thank you ​@@jamesmccarthy5086

[@amyk.labonte1364]

I suspect that the design of the ship was an important factor in this too

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, Shawn. Leave to Capt. D to come with new information on the Mighty Fitz. Thanks for your important feedback and your support. HMM

[@Outdoor_Carnivore]

Well done! Every year, I look forward to your documentaries. You are not only keeping the memories of the Fitz and her crew alive, but you and Captain Darrell are bringing new theories to the table!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...we really appreciate you. HMM

[@cynthiaroper3127]

Another great conversation. Thank you! I have been obsessed with the wreck of the Fitzgerald for decades! Captain Darrell is a wealth of knowledge!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Capt. D. is legend! Thanks Cynthia! HMM

[@firewalkerp]

Thank you again for another in this series. I could listen to Captain Darrell for hours…

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both! Thanks for watching...HMM

[@chuckg6039]

Thanks very much guys for continuing this series. I really enjoyed watching this one. I'm at the point where I've given up trying to figure out exactly what caused the wreck. In my mind, it was a combination of many factors. Of course, there was a root cause, and no doubt there were contributing factors. Captain Darrell hit it right on the head. If the Fitz wreck helps improve today's safety....which we know it has, then that is what gives me peace. Thanks again fellows.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Chuck; thanks for your feedback. I believe we'll never know definitively what happened to the Mighty Fitz, no matter how many times she was dived on...but I sure have my theories! Happy holidays to you and Jen! HMM

[@robertayers9424]

Thanks again! A part of me enjoys the conversation and a big part is full of sadness for the loss of life. The lives that were changed because of it. Thanks to you and Captain Darrell for the continued quest for answers!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I understand completely what you're saying here Robert. It's painful every time I dig into the stories of the Mighty Fitz. Thanks...HMM

[@Brotherbenz22]

My favorite time of the year! I love the insight both you and Captain Darrell have. I learn so much from both of you as Great Lakes captains. I am in my fifth season as a deckhand working towards becoming a Captain, and have crewed on the Jet Express, Goodtime III, Nautica Queen, and now the Goodtime I, the knowledge both of you have is amazing. I bought both of the books Captain Darrell recommended and can't wait to read them. Thank you both for all the work you have done in our industry, and for this Edmund Fitzgerald Series.

[@darrellwalton938]

Keep studying and always be true to yourself and you will make a”Great Captain”! Thanks for watching!

[@Brotherbenz22]

Thank you Captain Darrell, that means a lot. You are very welcome!

[@lincolnw8194]

Every year, over 3 million people visit Arlington cemetery. How many people visit the fitzgerald a year? 0. Every year, 350000 people visit Lincolns tomb. How many visit the fitzgerald? 0. Every year, 1.8 million people visit Pearl Harbor. How many visit the fitzgerald? 0. All those previous places are all gravesites, yet you can freely and respectfully visit all of them. Doesn't that seem odd? It's almost like someone is trying to hide something. And what's stupid about this whole law that bans diving, captain Darrell himself, isn't legally allowed to dive on the wreck if he wanted to visit the grave of his uncle. Him as a surviving family member isn't allowed to go visit his uncle if he wanted to. Now that's beyond ridiculous. I understand that they are down there, but people aren't there to disturb, there only there to remember.

[@BobG-t2h]

More than 0. The Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum (the memorial site for the Fitzgerald) has over 100,000 visitors every season. And on the anniversary of the sinking (Nov 10) a memorial service is held at this museum, including ringing of the bell by family members of those lost.

[@lincolnw8194]

I actually meant at the wreck directly. People going down to see her.

[@BobG-t2h]

@@lincolnw8194 Well, you can't. Not legally. At the request of the family of the Fitzgerald's crew, you need a permit from the Canadian government. Otherwise it is illegal. The other problem is depth. For divers who dive for a hobby it is more than twice as deep as most are rated to dive. To do so requires special equipment, support equipment and training. This could possibly run over $1,000,000 for 1 visit, for special diving equipment, or a mini sub, or a robot. And lots and lots of lighting. It is pitch black down there. Sunlight can't reach it.

[@raymarshall6721]

​@@lincolnw8194I think most of why diving has been forbidden is because of relic hunters. Just like the titanic, the USS Houston, etc. People will take bits and pieces over time and basically pillage what they can

[@lincolnw8194]

​@raymarshall6721 yeah that's definitely possible.

[@JL-yl8gd]

Love Captain Darrell videos. Can’t wait to watch it all.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Excellent! Thanks...HMM

[@AppalachianMountaineer1863]

Always love this time of year to hear more from Captain Darrell on the Fitz and the Great Lakes

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You and me both...thanks. HMM

[@phillipgarrow2297]

I'm a certified welder for a military contractor people don't realize that over welding is bad it makes the joint to stiff it will crack instead of flex continuous stress cause metal fatigue. It will eventually fail

[@DonAbrams-hq7ln]

Makes sense: iron weakened by stress and corrosion could have broken her keel as the pellet load shifted by the head.

[@herbertmichaels2841]

So doesnt that mean the 70 year old ships out there are dangerous

[@bherylkuebler986]

​@@DonAbrams-hq7lnher keel already had 'issues'...hmmm

[@darrellwalton938]

Most of those ships were “Riveted”!

[@phillipgarrow2297]

@darrellwalton938 the fitzgerald was welded and made in modular pieces the first of it's kind and it's sister ship was the last one made like the fitzgerald and the last one made at great lakes engineering works . It seems like OlgebayNorton was more is more interested in making money than safety screened bulkheads are lighter than watertight bulkheads there isn't much strength in them. Changing freeboard to haul more cargo than ever designed to haul . In the long run 29 people lost there lifes because of it corporate greed

[@p.k.5455]

Another great day with our two favorite Captains!!! Thanks gentlemen! May you both have Fair winds and following seas!!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I'll take those fair winds and following seas...thanks again p.k.5455. HMM

[@tmayer0009]

Sooooo my first question is will there be a Part 5 to this History Mystery Man? Thanks so very much for sharing your stories of this mystery, always look forward to seeing more of them and listening to you and Captain Darrell Walton. Only 2 more days until the memorial service and bell ringing in honor of her and her crew. Keep them coming please 🙏

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again tmayer0009. Yes...the 5th is published. And, I sat down with Capt. D. again last week. We'll also have two more coming yet this year...6 and 7. HMM

[@greggrauscher34]

It's nice to know that after 49 years the Fitz and her crew aren't forgotten. I said a prayer for the men that were lost and their loved ones this past Sunday. Like usual Capt. Darrell brings up many good points. Of particular interest to me is how he theorized that the increased load lines caused (what us racing people might describe as) handling problems and the Sault lock wallbangings are proof of that. Also interesting was how even getting to close to shoal (not even just grounding on it) and the resulting pressure could have damaged the hull and/ or even blown the vents off. Thanks again for another great video guys. I look forward to Part 5 and beyond!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks my friend; I sure appreciate you. HMM

[@greggrauscher34]

HMM thank you for your kind words. i appreciate you (and the great content you put out) too!

[@matthewedwards5146]

This is awesome. The Anderson is tied up next to my office this morning. I got some great photos of her unloading sand for the new Bills stadium.

[@Spike-sk7ql]

That is so cool. I seen that ship one time out on Erie. It's an amazing sight!

[@greggrauscher34]

I'm hoping she's back in Buffalo soon. I'm not familiar with that area. If i drive down to see her, is there an area I could park and walk close enough to get a good view of her/ take photos?

[@matthewedwards5146]

@@greggrauscher34 She’s right across from River works right next to the road.

[@critterscute3642]

That is a spectacular honor, especially with the anniversary tomorrow.

[@greggrauscher34]

@@matthewedwards5146 thanks. If/ next time she's back in Buffalo I'll have to go greet her.

[@rogerozdarski2935]

Thank you again HMM and Captain Darrell. I've learned so much between you two about boating and the dangers. Till your next video.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Roger...sorry it's taken me so long to catch up. HMM

[@mp-ov9dh]

Cant get enough of these, all super interesting.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks so much! HMM

[@MarcMullo]

Thank you Captain Walton for this important content, I just came across your channel on this Remembrance Day Eve from Ontario, Canada. All ship sinkings are tragic; this one is so very sad.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Marc; we appreciate your support. HMM

[@jasonshipman4735]

These videos are always amazing thank you for taking the time to make them

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch them. HMM

[@tylerbuckley4661]

To the crew of the fitz rest in peace you will never be forgotten

[@jamesmadden9080]

Another awesome segment! Very thought provoking. Please keep them coming!!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, James...will do. HMM

[@Karrpilot]

A few years ago, I was at the maritime museum display. Complete with the bell from the ship. The curator told me that one of the deck hands pointed out to the captain, a number of broken hatches that should be repaired. Prior to departure. Supposedly the captain told him that the repairs will be done at the end of the shipping season.

[@staciasmith5162]

@@Karrpilot I remember hearing that it wasn't seaworthy. So many companies run those ships on a shoestring budget.

[@Karrpilot]

​@staciasmith5162 So are the aircraft I fly. Run on a shoestring budget. Although it does give me an edge in emergency procedures. I can figure out what needs fixing now, and what can wait

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Yeah...the company was trying to squeeze one more run out of her, all the while knowing she needed repairs. Thanks for your feedback. HMM

[@mojo7004]

Not being familiar with shipping, this tragedy has always fascinated me. I have learned a great deal from these videos. Thank you.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM

[@donnix1192]

I love your content!!! I love learning about ships of the Great Lakes, especially the Fitzgerald and Anderson. My great grandfather Albert Horswill was a seasoned seafarer, he was a crewman and survivor of the RMS Titanic.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...so appreciated. Super cool story on your great grandfather. How much do you know about him? HMM

[@donnix1192]

@ Albert was in the Royal Navy, he served aboard the Battleship Sovereign off the coast of Greece in 1901 when an artillery station exploded killing 25 men and he suffered partial hearing loss. Discharged as a result he would join the White Star Line where he made over 30 crossings on the RMS Oceanic as a lookout, quartermaster, and able sea hand. He was transferred to RMS Titanic with dozens of fellow Oceanic crew members for its ill fated maiden voyage. While he was preparing lifeboats on the deck he fortunately survived when Officers Murdoch and Lowe ordered him onto a severely under filled cutter lifeboat along with six other nearby crewmen on the starboard side. He moved to Chicago in 1913 although he never worked on ships again. I think he would have enjoyed working on the freighters of the Great Lakes. Great channel, thank you!🙏

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

@@donnix1192 Wow...this is fascinating stuff...to be connected to the Titanic this way. Amazing...thanks for sharing it here. HMM

[@TillerG7]

49 years ago today. I’m 35 so I wasn’t around when she sank, but I’ve spent some time learning about her as Lake Superior has been in my back yard my entire life.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

What a great backyard! Thanks for your feedback. HMM

[@jeremymcmanus6624]

Just got off of work! What a way to start my Friday evening and weekend! HMM and Cap'n Darrell!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Jeremy! We're glad you're here. HMM

[@jodyvillalobos357]

Absolutely love these! Both of you are awesome! Thanks HMM

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Jody...so appreciated. HMM

[@jodyvillalobos357]

@HistoryMysteryMan you are very welcome sir

[@skycvg]

The prop blade coming lose is very interesting in regard to the onboard damage and now the "Static Pressure" concept in regard to the underwater damage is really interesting since they investigated the shoal area and saw no signs of impact. Those two points are very feasible as to what really happened. Does make one ponder the possibities. Great for discussion anyway.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

It depends on who you talk to regarding evidence at the shoal site. Thanks for your feedback; I enjoyed it. HMM

[@lonewolf9390]

"Don't let nobody on deck!" “What’s that, Fitzgerald? Unclear. Over.” “I have a bad list, lost both radars. And am taking heavy seas over the deck. One of the worst seas I’ve ever been in.” "If I’m correct, you have two radars.” "They're both gone." That's the most cryptic piece of the puzzle right there. What was happening aboard the Fitzgerald at that point to where anyone would even begin to contemplate going on deck?

[@normpaddle]

Cooper said nobody would go on the deck, common knowledge it wasn't safe, people didn't have to ask. Same for all ship, it was protocol. SO, the fact McSorley said that means someone or more Than one brought up the need to go on deck!!! Why? I personally think lifeboat 1 broke lose and was slamming up agaisnt the Fitz. This would explain why Lifeboat 1 was found NE OF Caribou!!! The rest of the debris was near the wreck site...LB 1, 15 miles north!!!! That Lifeboat was probably banging and slamming and they thought, " we gotta cut the fuc#$@ free it's going to come thru the pilot house". Most likely broke off on her own.

[@stephenmcguire7801]

@@lonewolf9390 Concerning the two radars. Where were they located, and what would cause the loss of both. Wind? Waves? Submergence? Is there evidence as to the time(s) the equipment was lost? Thanks for the analysis.

[@lonewolf9390]

@@stephenmcguire7801 Not sure what actually caused the loss of both radars, but as far as I know, the radars were perched on masts directly above the pilot house. Captain McSorley was talking to the freighter Avafors sometime around 5:30 PM on November 10th to inquire if the radio beacon and light at Whitefish Point were operational, when he mentioned that he had a list, and had lost both radars. At that point, the Fitzgerald was basically blind in the water, and asked the Arthur M. Anderson to help them navigate until they reached Whitefish Bay.

[@bherylkuebler986]

​@@normpaddleOR, a crew member realized they were doomed and wanted to go and GET the lifeboat ready?

[@harpman6766]

@@stephenmcguire7801 An upcoming video will explain that!

[@scottpierce3969]

And tomorrow marks another anniversary of this terrible, terrible tragedy. . . Thanks for these informative discussions and keeping the legacy alive.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Scott. Are you the same Scott from southern Illinois? HMM

[@scottpierce3969]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Originally from Minnesota, but currently living in Colorado.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

@@scottpierce3969 Understood...thanks for the clarification.

[@genedwg6689]

Thanks again. Of to Split Rock Lighthouse on Sunday to hear about the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Still, the best theories are spoken here!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Awesome...thanks. How was your experience at Split Rock Lighthouse? HMM

[@genedwg6689]

@ the docent told the story as the Coast Guard told in the report. I figured as much, but I definitely knew more than the docent. They had a few books in the bookstore about the Fitz. It was a nice ceremony and my only change would be, get a better bell for muster. ( bad ring, but there could’ve been a historic reason for that bell ) The self guided tour of the lighthouse was nice. If you’re fit enough you can climb up to the lamp of the lighthouse. Great access.

[@p.k.5455]

These really are your best work Mr History Mystery Man!!! Thank you for sharing the good Captain and his theories!!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...so appreciated! HMM

[@bigwoody4704]

HMM haven't forgotten,49 yrs Thank You for your all your efforts,

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome...thanks again. HMM

[@tommygunnz450]

33 year old mechanic here and love your videos

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Tommy...greatly appreciated. HMM

[@darlenejohnson8864]

Love to watch these videos and hear capt. Darrell. Very informative and I've learned a lot about the Edmund Fitzgerald. So sad for all those men. R. I. P.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Darlene...we appreciate your support. HMM

[@keystonepirate2534]

Great listen as always gents! This gas been a Very good season! Definitely replaying throughout the week. We appreciate y’all. Got a spot cleaned off the shelf for the autograph. 🙏✊🏴‍☠️🪕

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for all the replays! That's huge in my world! HMM

[@BodyChamp96]

When is the next episode??? We want more Great Lake wrecks not just the fitz! Capt is a living encyclopedia of the Great Lake gales and wrecks! We the people want more! Love you guys!!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks so much. I will talk to Capt. D about other wrecks. We have already done the Bradley, the Morrell, the Eastland and the Empress of Ireland...but I will check with him. HMM

[@kylemcelgunn6361]

Great videos, very entertaining. I'm in my early 30's but have been visiting Lake Superior every summer since I can remember. The Fitz is a subject I revisit every year since I bought one of Fred Stonehouse's books as a kid. I have read that it may have been possible that the forward hatch covers caved in while the ship was still on the surface. Certainly as the ship sank lower over time, the weight of the waves had to take more of a toll on her. One or two of those hatches being exposed would have lead to quick and catastrophic flooding that the ship could not survive.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Certainly possible. She was definitely sinking...I believe water also coming in from the bottom from going around near Caribou Island. Thanks Kyle...HMM

[@jamesmccarthy5086]

Thanks for sharing! The more I watch these, the more I want to learn more! One thing you guys might find interesting is how that the cook Red Burgner said how people would complain how bad the ship moved! And he said that during the winter layup she would groan like a much older ship due to her overwork. Dudley Paquette also mentioned something you guys might find interesting. Around midnight of the 10th of November, he heard Mcsorely call the Anderson telling him he had to cut back his rpm’s because of how bad the ship was working! And they were only in small seas by that time! She could’ve easily been sinking from that point on! They also raised the Cedarville’s logbook after she sank. They raised it because of Len Gabrysiak’s testimony about what speed they were going and where they were at and were able to confirm it. And for the picture you put of the Bradley, that’s the Irvin L. Clymer. When she was launched in 1917, she was named Carl D. Bradley but only until 1927, when the 2nd Bradley was built.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again, James...appreciate all the information. I believe the Fitz was mortally wounded well before it went down...and sinking well before she went aground near Caribou. HMM

[@jamesmccarthy5086]

@ especially if they had already slowed down from much calmer seas! I think the only way we’ll ever know is if the crew would’ve recorded any leaking or fractures.

[@TheBestTruckerWolfe]

Great show captain Walton

[@mjanovec]

If you look at the chart room windows, some appear to be missing (with a cord hanging out of one). I suspect the log book either got blown out a window or (more likely) got “flushed” down the stairs inside of the ship as water rushed into the pilot house, carrying everything loose with it. I suspect that water also carried the bridge crew down inside the ship. It had to be a terrifying final minute.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Certainly possible on the log book. Or, it may have been secured in a drawer under the chart table...so it could feasibly still be there. Thanks again...HMM

[@richardbevill47]

Captian Darrell: Much admiration and respect for you sir. Godspeed.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Richard...HMM

[@tjhookit]

Well damn.....I had been down and depressed, then I remembered I hadn't seen a HMM with Captain Walton for a couple months! Feeling right with the world again now!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Glad to have you back in...and thanks again! HMM

[@georgesabol459]

Get the log book.

[@bluerazor7049]

I have to agree with you, most wouldn't but I'd say that with the diving technology that we have now, retrieving the log book would be easier.

[@BonnieDragonKat]

If it still exists yo would have a hell of a time reading it considering how waterlogged it would be. I mean considering that she's been underwater for almost 50 years. I doubt you're going to be able to read the log book if you find it.

[@bluerazor7049]

I mean, they recovered a journal from the Titanic and were able to read from it after drying it out carefully.

[@RogerHanner-i3s]

Yes get the log book

[@americanmotors3631]

The thing I have with the log book is, would it have been current? I mean if the ships is previously damaged, so not at 100% health and strength?? Now it's taking a beating like it's never took before??? Would all that even be logged???? If she went down in seconds as suggested they probably weren't even even writing things down as they were in the middle of battle so to speak... Or would someone had been trying to write during all of that?!?!?

[@waynestock2006]

Thanks Captain Darrell for the book recommendation. Been listening to the trials of the edmund fitzgerald on audiobook. Its super interesting.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for checking in Wayne! HMM

[@ohnoohyeah3205]

Thanks again, fellas. Have a warm, happy and wholesome Thanksgiving!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Many thanks...you too! HMM

[@ray_s281]

I just enjoy listening to the both of you.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks kindly Ray...HMM

[@maegenyoungs2591]

Oh man look at the hatch plate bases. At 14:40 point. They are riveted on the ends but welded in the middle. If that prop had been bouncing up and down and in between the plate holds. It could have knocked the plate away from the deck. And if it had done that on. Both sides. The center would have fallen out from underneath. Once you get enough damage. There is no stopping that. I could see that possibly failing in that way

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting analysis...thanks for sharing it here. Keep it comin! HMM

[@keywestjj]

I have spent basically all of my 75 years living next to Lake Michigan in Grand Haven, MI and then in 1975 was my first year on Beaver Island. That day the Fitzgerald went down was the wildest storm that I've ever seen on the Great Lakes - I went over to the west shore and saw gigantic waves that I didn't think possible .... and that was on Lake Michigan, not Superior. God rest the souls of the 29 victims.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for sharing your stories here...super interesting. Is Beaver Island currently inhabited? Do people stay there year round? HMM

[@2er5]

Love this channel and love his stories, can't believe it's 49 years now since she sank :(

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...so appreciated. HMM

[@oldmanonthehill8858]

Great video as always! Do you have anything else coming up with the Captain ?

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks...and yes...at least one more, maybe more. HMM

[@MarleyAndRoo]

WOW. I loved listening to him. What an intelligent take. 🌹

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for your support...HMM

[@MarkHolt-p4w]

Jolly great show again! As always!!. Keep it going!!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Yes sir...thanks Mark. Have a holly jolly Christmas. HMM

[@bov634]

as a Canadian, I'm in favor of respectfully retrieving the logs

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting...thanks for your feedback. HMM

[@normpaddle]

The Fitz made her last trip locking through the Soo 49 years ago today headed northbound to Superior Wisconsin

[@josephcorlett6794]

I went to high school with Captain Darrel's younger brother Kim. Great family. Darrel's older brother was a newspaper executive.

[@darrellwalton938]

Hi Joe! I graduated with your brother “Jerry” in 1966. He was a very nice guy!

[@beberle9641]

Godspeed to all the good men who went down with the Mighty Fitzgerald🙏. Don and Darrell haven't even watched video yet but I promise I will. Can't wait to listen and learn from y'all. Brian from Colorado 🤠

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again Brian from Colorado. HMM

[@almirria6753]

Even if they could recover the logbook..Could it be able to be read after all these years in the lake bottom? With the paper disgenerating by being immersed so long

[@bherylkuebler986]

I think frigid fresh water might actually preserve the Log.

[@almirria6753]

@@bherylkuebler986 I am thinking of the ink used at the time. It could have washed away. The paper could be still recovered

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Good question. There was paperwork that came up from the Titanic that was salvaged enough to read...and that's in salt water...so maybe on the Fitz's log book. HMM

[@farmrrick]

RIP sailors of the Fitz had to be a terrifying night.

[@jerlewis4291]

In the 50s my uncle worked on a Lake Boat as a wheelsman. The boats home-ported in Detroit but he lived in Buffalo, so whenever they came to Buffalo he'd call my grandma and my mom and they would go out to dinner. When this song came out my mom told me that on the ships final run one November from Buffalo to Detroit she watched them leave and went home. Two and a half hours later her brother called and said they turned back because the weather was so bad. They learned a storm was raging on Lake Michigan and it would hit Lake Erie the next day and the long fetch of the lake would let it grow and they'd likely be fighting it for 2 or even three days. The ship stayed in one more day and took on some new provisions. The next morning Indian Summer had arrived and my uncle said they had beautiful weather for the whole trip.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting story; thanks for sharing it here! HMM

[@rosemaryangela1825]

This is what I look forward to!!!! More, please

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

More on the way...thanks again! HMM

[@homessiegerson1033]

Captain, I just gotta ask: From where did you get that shirt? Is it commercially available? Btw, what does a “watchman” do on a ship? Thanks in advance and stay safe.

[@darrellwalton938]

Google Edmund Fitzgerald shirts, and numerous sites will pop up. The ones I ordered from, all appeared to be reliable. Watchmen back in my day would sound the “ballast tanks with a “lead line”. Also spot the “wheelsman” when they took their coffee breaks. Not sure what they do differently now on the 1000 footers. Thanks for watching! By the way, we usually worked, 4 on, 8 off. Not a bad way to work!

[@brettfavreify]

I appreciate your annual talk about the Fitzgerald. Unless there are smoking gun documents revealed, it'll always be a mystery. As for retrieving the log book, wouldn't it be buried under a lot of chart room debris flushed in from the pilot house, if it didn't go out the back window? Six to eight minutes isn't enough time to sort through that junk, not to mention the possibility of being entangled or having an airline being punctured. As for the wreck site itself, the Ontario gov't declared it off-limits. I think the surviving families petitioned Ontario to stop any scavenging and possible photography of any bodies.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Hard to say about the logbook. Overall, I believe you are correct...that we will never know what officially happened to the Mighty Fitz no matter how many time we dove on her. Thanks Brett...HMM

[@nate8403]

If the propeller blade was lost during the storm could it possibly be found along the route the fitz took? By sonar? Would definitely bring light to the theory of it coming loose and taking down the fence and or vent covers

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Good point. However, the Canadian government forbids anyone from drifting over the site, let alone diving on it. Thanks Nate. HMM

[@michaelnault5905]

Great seeing you guys today! I'll be attending online ceremonies Sunday.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I was there too...online that is. Thanks again, Michael. HMM

[@stynger_OO7]

First, what are they hiding, no diving, second, where is the propeller that was on deck and what is the cause of the loss of the railing while She was listing. First seems to be lack of maintenance. Fitz had 3 cargo holds, the Anderson had 5 . More probability of stress fracture. So many variables. Capt Darrell also has a vid on the Middletown check it out, HMM Thank you And Thank You Capt Darrell

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again...you're welcome. To my knowledge, the spare prop blades have never been found. HMM

[@stynger_OO7]

@HistoryMysteryMan If Capt Darrell was right about the blade left between the hatch covers if it broke loose it could easily have taken out that railing and some hatch cover clamps along the way. Either way the tragedy is still a haunting reminder of what that poor crew must've felt in their last minutes. Captain McSoreley Seasoned as he was , as Bernie Cooper said ,He thought the ship would get him through. If I was a crew member, i would've trusted McSoreley with my Life as they did. Their last minutes must have been a harrowing experience to say the least. RIP .

[@MissTerri207]

Many thanks, gentlemen, for continuing this series. It is important for those of us of a certain age to pass on what we know, lest the knowledge is lost. ❤ P.S. Where might one find the t-shirt Captain Darrell is wearing?

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks again Miss Terri...good point of the old codgers of the world passing on what they know. Capt D. said he just Googled Edmund Fitzgerald apparel...and the shirt came up. HMM

[@adamdomitrovich710]

My late grandfather was a man of few words but every year on the anniversary of the sinking of the fitz he would talk about how he was laid up in a hospital in superior Wisconsin with appendicitis and his roommate in the hospital was the cook of the fitz

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting. Was his roommate the cook that begged off at the last minute?

[@adamdomitrovich710]

@ from my understanding yes it was the cook who begged off

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

@@adamdomitrovich710 Red Burgner...

[@garyshope8378]

We may never know what happened .Could it be the way the boys would want it. Awesome story it never gets old

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Yeah...I don't believe we'll ever know for sure, no matter how many times she was dived on. Thanks again, Gary. HMM

[@sectorz1019]

I think Cap Walton should get the other family members and make a plea to have the log book brought back up. They also should maybe leave a letter from each family member writing a small letter to there family members who passed on the fitz. And leave something that is new from this time, I say this for a reason. If they take the log book there taking a piece of history from the wreck,I think the crew would be ok with this cause it would shed more light on them and the fitzs finally moments. But also leave like maybe a new case of beer or Irish coffee something the crew would like. You take something you should leave something. Let the crew and ship know hey people still remember us and miss us after all these years. I hope this is ok to say I don’t have any family members who was on the fitz so I don’t mean any disrespect. For me I think it would be a win win situation plus since the bow is in American waters technically it could be possible

[@darrellwalton938]

Very good synopsis! Food for thought! Thanks for watching!

[@sectorz1019]

@ thank you Captain

[@Blues_Man989]

I had a thought on this.... what if they did 3D scans of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald like they did the Titanic? Those 3D scans Magellan did of the Titanic are amazing.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Great idea, except that it's against the law according to the Canadian government...and breaking this law comes with serious punishment. Love the idea though...thanks. HMM

[@riverbender9898]

A complex and fascinating puzzle that obviously has plenty of room for common sense theories. Thank you.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Can't get enough common sense! Thanks...HMM

[@riverbender9898]

@@HistoryMysteryMan Amen!

[@LHOH197]

Im with captain Darrell that i think we should be able to dive down there especially now with how incredible camera and video technology is today to get some updated hi resolution pictures and videos i think alot of things could possibly be found out especially now and would love to know for sure if the gps coordinates have changed through the years if the fitz is in what now might be American waters that's what's really interesting to me i mean its been 2 years before i was born when it went down i truly think just like the Bradley and the morrell and the kamloops the opportunity should be there to dive on what is called the titanic of the great lakes maybe just maybe some long standing questions could finally be answered look forward to more with you and captain Darrell

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks for your feedback...so appreciated. Unless the Canadian government has a change in policy, there'll be no more diving on the Mighty Fitz. HMM

[@tomhowe1510]

The door is the key to it floundering

[@patreilly1458]

If the propeller blades had broken loose the next thing to the starboard is the Starboard under deck walk way access hatch Tunnel with its hatch cover. A 2 ton Hunk of metal would have peeled the hatch clean off of the deck opening a 3 foot by 4 foot hole into the stairwell below. Then those blades would have gone over the side taking the vent covers and the railings with it.

[@rickbodi5944]

I've thought that same scenario for years, one of those propeller blades came loose, hit the vent(s) took it off, (because those vents are thick it took something more than water to knock one off) split the side open at the top of the deck and took the fence rail with it. And that gradually flooded the tunnel just below the spar deck. I think that would totally explain why he wasn't gaining anything with both his pumps going, because the pumps take water out of the hold not the tunnel, the tunnel is just below the deck, the tunnel filled up with water that could not be pumped out and the split on the deck compromised the structural integrity of the hold and began to twist apart in the wave action. (Like you can't twist a beer can, until you put a cut in it) and the rouge wave pushed it under and finished it off. RIP. 👍✌️

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Very possible scenario Pat...thanks for sharing it here. HMM

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Rick. Interesting view on the tunnels which could not be pumped out. HMM

[@rickbodi5944]

@@HistoryMysteryMan did you get the location where the Fitz was built? It's now the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club. I used to load at Great Lakes Steel all the time and I asked around about it. I almost thought it was Nicholson Terminal Docks, but it wasn't but that area was part of that complex. I also worked at American Ship Building in Toledo from 76 to 79 I can say, 3 - 1,000 footers have my welds on them. We built the mid sections here and end plates were welded on and they were floated to Lorain to finish the rest of the hulls, superstructure, engines and so forth. I don't know the names of them anymore, just hull numbers. The first one had three conveyor belts, second, two belts and the third one had only one belt in it. Used to know the names but they've been sold and traded so much I lost track. The Fitz always fascinated me, always seen it parked winters near where you parked your tug at the frog pond on Front St. Near 280. Love most of your shows. I'm pretty sure also that I drag raced that Cuda that Bruce Hudson had, just a little street race, because I used to hang out around the boat docks in Oregon, used to be able to cruise all around back there, sometimes just watching unloading ships and I remember screwing around with a car that looked like that one with a kid that looked like him, around fall time just before it sank. 👍✌️

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

@@rickbodi5944 Interesting stuff. Can anyone visit the GL Steel Boat Club where the Fitz was built? Where exactly is the frog pond off Front St? Is that where the American Valor is now parked? Bruce lived and hung out regularly in Oregon...couldn't have been too many brand new red-maroon Cudas around. Do you remembrer communicating with this person who may have been Hudson?

[@Heywhatsupmyman]

Ransom E. Cundy was a distant relative, a cousin to my father. My last name is Cundy, it’s a rather rare surname in the US, but has a high density in Michigan and north Midwest

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting. Is your dad still alive? Thanks for your interest...HMM

[@jacktfowler246]

Broke her back when her nose dug into the bottom. That's why the two sections are relatively close together. Had she broke on the surface, her bow and stern would be further apart (like the Titanic).

[@DonAbrams-hq7ln]

Did the shift in cargo cause ĥer to plummet bow first?

[@jacktfowler246]

@DonAbrams-hq7ln yes that certainly contributed to it. All that weight, plus the water that was flooding her, rocketed her toward the bottom. All the wrong elements coming together at the right time.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Understood; thanks for your feedback Jack. HMM

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Don...I'd say the shift in cargo coupled with a heavy following sea. But, I believe the Fitz was already mortally wounded...as her keel, I believe was already coming apart. HMM

[@DonAbrams-hq7ln]

Can welds and riveted plates be the problem since Fitz and Titanic were sailing in frigid H20

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I would think a riveted boat would be much more structurally sound compared to a welded boat. Rivets can twist as necessary; welded seams can't. Thanks...HMM

[@bherylkuebler986]

I had a new lawnmower that I used 3x before the welds holding the gas tank on just 'let go'...almost caused a fire! No clue that was gonna happen, as the welds looked fine.

[@skevincampbell]

Great job, as always.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Kevin! HMM

[@lyndaproper1313]

Get hold of some Great Lakes Edmund Fitz beer (or any beer for that matter) and tomorrow night at 7pm raise a glass with the toast :" Fellas it;s been good to know ya!"

[@darrellwalton938]

And it WAS good to know them!

[@normpaddle]

How watertight are the main floor cabins? Reason I ask, is the Cooper said water was going OVER the hatch crane...so looking at the image of the Fitz and her crane, that would put the main floor underwater.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

They are engineered to be 100% watertight. Thanks...HMM

[@Igloo3471]

The theory of the Fitz being smashed by the Three Sisters and breaking in two and sinking quickly is not without precedent. In 1988, there was vessel named MV Singa Sea which was a large carrier from the Philippines that left Bunbury, Western Australia bound for Cape Town, South Africa and finally onto Rotterdam, Netherlands which was broken in two by three massive waves and sank in minutes in the Indian Ocean off Western Australia with the loss of 19 men. Six crewmen had hopped into a fibreglass liferaft which broke free from the ship as it sank and they drifted for a month before being found by a passing Greek tanker and rescued and taken to hospital in Perth. After the ship had failed to make its scheduled positional broadcast, an RAAF P3-Orion was sent out to search but found nothing.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting...thanks for sharing your stories here. HMM

[@J.R.in_WV]

Does anyone else find it odd the ship is in 530 feet of water….abd there is near exactly 529 feet of ship left? I’m not suggesting anything specific here, just how strange those numbers are. Within inches of Exactly 200 feet missing / destroyed and within inches of the same amount of ship left as there is water above her. If it is a coincidence, and that’s highly likely, it sure is an interesting one.

[@darrellwalton938]

Things that make you go “Hmmm”.

[@Blrtech77]

HMM and Captain Walton, another Heartfelt Thank You and Hand Salute! Always Interesting and Informative. Be Safe Out There! HMM are you going to be at the NMGL this weekend or on Monday?

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks. No, I missed the NMGL gathering I'm sorry to say.

[@MrSchmitty61]

I sailed on the Anderson the sister ship in the 90,s what a work horse they had us doing jobs all over this ship fixing this and that scraping and painting scrubbing. While I was sailing I thought about the fitzgerald many time,s but you never talked about it out loud bad omen when you do that, what a cool old boat it is..😊😊

[@AvengerII]

Arthur M. Anderson is NOT the Edmund Fitzgerald's sister ship; Anderson was a running companion to the Fitzgerald. They're different designs and Anderson (launched 1952) was significantly older than the Fitzgerald (launched 1958). Arthur B. HOMER (launched 1959) is the Fitzgerald's sister ship, built to virtually the same design. The Homer had the same structural issues the Fitzgerald according to confidential accounts. The shipping company that owned the Homer FORBADE the Coast Guard from sailing on and inspecting the Homer after the Fitzgerald accident. NOT a conspiracy theory is that the Homer was laid up permanently 5 years AFTER the Fitzgerald sinking in spite of a refit of the Homer (identical to what was planned for Fitzgerald prior to her demise).

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Super interesting...thanks for sharing your stories on the Anderson here. I can see why the Mighty Fitz would not come up in discussion. HMM

[@oldslow3694]

sorry for asking this dumb question, in rough weather where would the crew be at their work stations below deck

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

I believe, since the crew was instructed to stay off deck, that they were mostly in their water-tight bunks, if not on duty in either the engine room or pilot house. Thanks...HMM

[@oldslow3694]

@@HistoryMysteryMan thanks for info

[@oldslow3694]

another dumb question, in our newspaper, i do not remember how many days after. but a body washed ashore. at first maybe from the the fitzgerald but it was someone who fell overboard in the 1940's i wish i saved paper

[@LorrieSchlake]

I wonder if something was wrong prior to it leaving port. The Titanic had a fire in the engine room where the coal was even before it left port and the ice berg hit the side that the fire had weakened the ship.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

The Mighty Fitz definitely had structural issues long before it left Superior, Wisconsin for its final voyage. We will be discussing some of those problems in videos ahead. Thanks Lorrie...HMM

[@donmcnally9063]

Great as always Don!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks Don! HMM

[@darnielsen7145]

Was curious about something. Would like to know what Capt Darrell thinks of it. If Fitz had a list from possible ballast tank issue and did take water in the cargo hold, wouldn't the list become even more profound.?I have heard the cargo drain was in the center of the ship? Enjoy this commenrary.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Thanks. I feel like the list was already more profound because Capt. McSorley commented on it...but we'll never know. HMM

[@Acespad-v7i]

I wonder if the log book is still in the wheel house it may have gotten wash out.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

We may never know. It certainly could still be in a drawer below the chart table. Thanks...HMM

[@michealgrace3020]

How About The Sister The Homer??? Would Love To Hear Your Thoughts About That Deal Please???

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

That would be a good one. I'll ask Capt. D. about the Homer...thanks Michael. HMM

[@AaronDanieltenni]

It's said that there was a body found with a corked lifebelt on them. Then they spotted a body in the bridge, but never shown in a range of respect which is understandable. Makes me wonder, though.

[@bluerazor7049]

The body with the corked lifebelt was narrowed down to one of the wheelsman because he was apparently 6'2-6'3, that's what Capt. Darrell said in one of the older videos. There were three wheelsmen on board: John D. Simmons, John J. Poviach and Eugene W. O'Brien. The body in the pilothouse? I never heard of that before because I thought that the mates, captain and the cadet were all blown downstairs once the windows blew.

[@AaronDanieltenni]

@ interesting, thank you! Sad though… Perhaps I misread something in an article, my apologies!

[@normpaddle]

No body found in pilot house, the one found came from there. Ive seen the video. Sadly obvious who it is. RIP crew.

[@AaronDanieltenni]

@@normpaddle RIP crew indeed.

[@bobvalentine8927]

Another awesome video thank you too

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

You're welcome Bob! HMM

[@bluerazor7049]

Another great episode! It was interesting to hear and listen to all of these new details that have just surfaced after so long. My honest opinion on how she went down as of now is when she struck Caribou Island, one of the blades came loose and hit both the vents and the railing, thus causing the first signs of trouble. With that, the ship was slowly going down via the damage and the hatches that were damaged over the eyes. In the matter of a minute or two, it nosedived, the first three hatches imploded and it finally snapped in half before the stern capsized and settled on the bottom. It's interesting to think what would have happened to the Fitzgerald had she made it and beached itself. Would the damage be enough to write her off or would Mutual Life and Columbia/Oglebay give her an overhaul?

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Interesting analysis; thanks for sharing it here. Keep it comin! HMM

[@bherylkuebler986]

I KNOW I saw the Fitz on Lake Erie by Buffalo years ago. Majestic.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Awesome memory; thanks for sharing it here...HMM

[@Maclaine007]

As a life long resident of the great State of Michigan I believe our rich and important history is a vital aspect of who we are. This most certainly includes the Great Lakes as a major part of Michigan back to the times of the Native Tribes to present day.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Great post...love it! The Great Lakes maritime industry is very much a part of Michigan culture for sure. HMM

[@j.griffin]

Thank you both for your insights and conclusions! As you said in a comment on a prior video, it is possible that as the Fitz dove downwards in the storm, the cargo shifted forwards and drove her on down. I thought about that and if that is what happened, then whatever water was in the hold would have probably surged forwards first- especially if it happened catastrophically and suddenly as she was hit by those last large waves that hit the Anderson, exacerbating and accelerating such a scenario. It would seem to my inexperienced self that the force of such surging motion of water and cargo could have sprung some of those hatches open in the process… I also agree with Captain Walton about having the Hope that God will someday answer what questions we have held unanswered throughout our lives. In His Presence, it may not seem to matter as much at that point, but In His Mercy, we should find all kinds of answers,resolutions, closures and reunions far beyond our current imaginings! Fair Winds&Smooth Seas to You Both!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Very nice post; thanks for sharing it here. The load shifting forward in a following sea is a real possibility. Thanks again...HMM

[@j.griffin]

@ You are Very Welcome! Thank You Both For All You Do to Keep The Legend Alive!

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

@@j.griffin Absolutely will...thanks!

[@hambam7533]

Was on Makinaw Island this past summer at my brothers condo sitting on the porch drinking coffee in the morning when i saw i big ship going by in the straits at Mission Point so picked up my binocolors and low and behold was the name Wilford Sykes was on the ships side

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

Wow! I'd stop my world to watch the Sykes go by. Thanks for sharing your story here. HMM

[@TillerG7]

I’d really like to know what the guy in the Newt Suit seen in the pilot house in that photo.

[@HistoryMysteryMan]

It's more than what anyone publicly is willing to share...thanks. HMM