The Swedish Cinderella Who Went From Royal Mistress To Royal Wife | Karin Månsdotter

[@TheUffeess]

A French envoy described King Erik in the following way: "The King of Sweden is a very handsome prince, well-built (they had to cut off his feet so he could fit in his coffin) and remarkably talented and handy in everything. Apart from his mother tongue, he speaks excellent German and Latin and fairly good French. He is very much at home in history, great mathematician and quite a good musician. He understands very easily what is presented, answers aptly and quickly, and finds great pleasure in conversing with those who understand how to speak of high and important things. Quite often he contradicts, apparently to learn better know their resourcefulness and judgment". Unfortunately, he suffered from mental illness and is considered one of the worst Swedish kings, partly due to his wars and general delusions. Then it should be mentioned that Finland was then part of Sweden and Karin was well treated there.

[@RavenIdril2966]

Was he a victim of inbreeding?

[@BobUikder-ig4uq]

I love the beautiful thumbnail images you use! Considering there is a depressing lack of portraits of nobility and even royals from these time periods, I love seeing AI art bring a face to these people that we will never have an image of. It’s really pretty and makes watching the video so much more enjoyable

[@areiaaphrodite]

I like this story. Unlike other royal mistresses who were conniving, manipulative, and constantly scheming, Karin seemed like a rather sweet, somewhat innocent young lady who just wanted to find a good man, get married and be a good mother. I don't think she ever imagined or even really wanted to be a queen, but she was quite gracious with her title and seemed to truly love her children and her husband, despite his erratic behaviour. Bless her heart ❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Absolutely this! She is often called the 'Swedish Cinderella', and I think it's such a good nickname for her, she is definitely the archetypal fairytale princess. ☺ I would say 'except for all the violence and murder', but very old fairytales did have that, so.... 😂

[@tonyaharmon1383]

Me Too!!❤😊

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

​@@HistorysForgottenPeopledoes she have a biography?

[@kimm.8800]

It is lovely to hear someone not Swedish talk about this story! The English and French royal history is famous, but other countries have many dramatic royal stories as well, and this one have always fascinated me. Her dramatic life is made for the screen! In the end, she did live a happy life in Finland, (then a part of Sweden) were she was quite respected. During the great peasant rebellion of the 1590s, the rebels refrained from attacking her estate.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you! I was so nervous, especially with trying to pronounce the Swedish words and names correctly! Karin's story is such an interesting one - as was that of King Erik, too. And it was nice to hear she at least had a happy ending in Finland on her estate, although it was a little sad that she was so distanced from her son by that time.

[@kimm.8800]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Yes, her son was simply regarded as a potential political threat by her brother-in-law the king, who never wanted to see him in Sweden again. She was not able to see him again until he became an adult, and by then, they were strangers to each other. But she did have a close relationship to her daughter for the rest of her life: Sigrid lived by all accounts a good life and are described as a dutiful and loyal daughter, who often visited her mother. Karin also had the company of members of her own birth family living with her from time to time. In summary; while people did put their nose up in the air a bit about Karin (she was no gentry, her father was a soldier and she worked as a waitress and then a madiservant) and found it strange that the king Married her instead of just keeping her as a mistress, she was not personally disliked. What made her such a cinderella story was her very "low class" commoner background, but that was essentially the only bad thing people had to say about her, which is rather fascinating, and does say something about her. She was no political threat to anyone: she had no relative or family that were able to get involved in politics, she was completely dependent upon Eric and her only political importance was the influence he gave her and her ability to give birth to legitimate heirs by him. When he was deposed and she was removed from him, she had zero political value, completely harmless and therefore everyone treated her with kindness.

[@RavenIdril2966]

I'm glad erik didn't have an evil stepmother.

[@kimm.8800]

@@RavenIdril2966 That is true, he did not. He had two stepmothers. First, his father remarried Margaret Leijonhufvud. She was by all accounts an intelligent, kind and capable person, a trusted political advisor of his father, and a good mother to both her own children as well as Eric. Secondly, Eric's father remarried Catherine Stenbock. She was younger than Eric and he may never have actually viewed her as a mother figure, but by all accounts he was fond of her and liked her as a person; since he was not married for the first seven years of his reign, he let her play the role of first lady of the court, referred to her as "My Dear Lady Stepmother" and apparently trusted her on some critical moments of his reign. By all accounts queen Catherine was a reserved, careful and tactical person who manouvered herself through court life quite successfully.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Will Erik's mother and stepmothers be part of the series?

[@beth7935]

Wow, what a dramatic life! A lot of it was very hard, but there was happiness too, & after her poor childhood she lived in luxury- even after Erik's death, which is often not the case for a royal mistress. She sounds like a very kind & decent person, & Erik was very lucky to have her- the entire country was, since she caused no problems, & actually improved things by caring for Erik & minimising the bad effects of his illness on everyone else. It's adorable that he drew a portait of her! I've never heard of a king doing that, & it's a very appealing little picture, & very well done. It'd be lovely to have lots of portraits of her, but the fact that the only surviving one was drawn by him is beautiful. Brilliant to hear a story of royalty outside Britain too! I loved the Nelly Gwyn video- who doesn't love Nelly!- but I'm at least familiar with most English royal mistresses, & I loved learning about someone I've never heard of, & about Mediaeval Sweden & one of its monarchs- the only Swedish monarch I know about is the fabulous Christina (who'd be a great video subject herself!) I only knew Erik as one of Elizabeth I's many suitors, & I did NOT know the dude ended up marrying his "commoner" mistress! Or that he had such a serious mental illness- stories of monarchs with mental illness always make my heart hurt, cos I have bipolar, so I feel for them, knowing how horrible it is even with modern medicine, but I also feel for their families & countries, cos I also know what a horrible impact it can have on others, & the extent of that impact with a monarch is mind-boggling. (I do have to add though, people with a mental illness are usually far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators, but it's obviously very different when they're a monarch, as in Erik's case). Also interesting to hear that Svante Stenssen Sture was Governor of Estonia, & Karin was sent to a castle in Finland. I've been trying to learn some Eastern(ish) European history, but I know so little that even such an unsurprising fact as "Estonia & Finland were part of Sweden in the 16thc" is a significant addition.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I agree that it's a shame there aren't more portraits of her, but as you say, it's so sweet that the likeness we do have of her was drawn by Erik. Especially as we can't really know what their relationship was like, but he does seem to have genuinely cared about Karin and loved her, whatever that looked like to him. And the fact his family liked her also says a lot, I think! 😊 And you're right about Erik and his mental illness, although to play Devil's Advocate, I think it feels a lot like his paranoia was worked up by those who benefited from it (like Persson), and perhaps his violent tendencies were encouraged. Not to minimise his violent actions, but I think they certainly wouldn't have been as bad had some people not urged him on, perhaps. And yes, the Estonia/Finland' thing is so interesting! Even more interesting is that Estonia voluntarily put itself under the protective rule of Sweden from fears of being attacked or invaded by Baltic German states. I think it stayed like that until the early 18th century, if I remember correctly.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Such a shame the media isn't interested in the Scandinavian monarchies.

[@beth7935]

@@lilacgirl-z8w I swear the media are only interested in Henry VIII's 6 wives, & it drives me nuts. I'm bored to tears with them, & I love it when we get to hear about someone totally new! I don't know much about the Scandinavian monarchies- I have a bio of the fabulous Christina of Sweden, & that's about it- & it'd be awesome to learn more about them.

[@RavenIdril2966]

I would love a tv series of mad king erik.

[@tonyaharmon1383]

​@leeannproctor2966 I'd Rather Have It In Her!!❤😊

[@celiajenks9885]

I find these stories fascinating ever since I signed up on ancestry with our family dna. Through much research learning my DNA is English,Welch,Scottish,Swedish,Finland French& Germanic then doing much research discovering we are ancestors were royals in all of the countries. It's nice because since they were royals we can trace our history back hundreds of years further than most people who weren't from royal lines.

[@tonyaharmon1383]

Awesome!!❤😊

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

I want to see more Swedish history.

[@Visplight]

It's kinda sweet how everyone decided that they weren't going to be overly misogynistic or classist about things, and were like "nah, theoretically possible she used witchcraft to seduce him, but also we don't blame her for any of the bad things the king did - that's all on him. She's actually pretty nice."

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's really weird, isn't it?! Everywhere else in the Western world, the word 'witch' was enough to make queens quake with fear of being hauled out the castle by a mob, but no one really did anything about it this time. I think it's probably down to the fact that Karin wasn't a threat in any way; she wasn't going to take the political world by storm, she wasn't going to go mad with spending, and she wasn't even going to try and get lucrative posts for her family because they weren't nobility.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's also possible those same people said, "Well, she's made her bed...." raising their eyebrows at her choice. "It's not who I'd seduce with witchcraft, but there you go!"😂

[@kimm.8800]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople She was never publicly accused, but whe know from preserved letters of the time that people theorized that she may have been using a love spell to get the king to marry her. That was mainly due to the fact that everyone was so astonished that he married a commoner rather than a princess or a noblewoman; it was a question of her class, but it was nothing personal really. It appears no one at court actually disliked her as a person, which does say something about her. /Swede.

[@RavenIdril2966]

Johan was a terrible brother and murderer.

[@kimm.8800]

@@RavenIdril2966 He did murder his brother, yes.

[@King_Steffon_II]

What a stupendous episode this Sunday night! I particularly enjoy these "commoner to Queen" episodes. In the series I'm writing, in book one the victorious young emperor marries not one, but two commoners, twin daughters of a powerful peasant priest. So THANK YOU for these episodes 🙏🏾

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome, I'm glad you're enjoying them! 😊 And your series sounds really interesting, it's great when real life inspires art.

[@RavenIdril2966]

Didn't Karin have the same effect as Anastasia did for ivan the terrible.

[@crocodiledundee8685]

What an extraordinary life & thankfully she was treated kindly after her husband was dethroned. Shame about her son though 😔

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It really was sad! They obviously saw him as a huge threat to the throne. Even after that point, he was lined up to marry the daughter of the Tsar of Russia, but it was broken off as he went a bit mental being able to finally live in luxury. He did end up with a small amount of land somewhere, but not what you'd expect as son of a king!

[@anneliejr]

Great video, though I wouldn't exactly call Karin’s a Cinderella story… The “romance “ sounds a lot better if one, as in the video, skip the very first meeting between Erik and Karin. Now it is quite difficult to know the truth as Erik did his best to “clean her up”, getting her an education and raising her status to one suited to be his mistress but the version I heard many times wasn't as consensual nor as pretty in the romance department. I am Swedish and the version I learned was one where Erik first spotted her in the streets when she was only about 13, captivated by her beauty he decided then and there to make her his mistress. He was the reason she was brought out of poverty and given an education at first working for a nobleman and then for his sister. She was groomed to be his mistress long before being aware of it herself and it still leaves the question whether she ever had any choice in the matter or simply made the best of her circumstances. The best one can say about Erik in that version is that he waited till she was “old enough” before taking her to his bed.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Cinderella only in the sense of a rise from being a commoner to being royalty, certainly not the romance part of it! 😂 And you're absolutely right in that it's very icky that Karin was still a young girl when Erik saw her. At the time, girls could canonically get married when they were 12, but it's still uncomfortable for us, even if few would have cared at the time. At the very least, there would have been an enormous power imbalance between them. The sources that talk about Erik first seeing her in the square come much later (in the 18th century, I think) and seem to have been romantic fiction, so I didn't include it, but you're right in that it's another part of the story that built up around Karin and Erik.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Whatever her age was she made like so many others the best option opened up to her. Thank God erik wasn't like henry viii.

[@tonyaharmon1383]

​@@lilacgirl-z8wAgreed!!😊

[@crystalmeier6579]

I'd love to see a movie/mini series of this!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think there was one (quite recently-ish?), but it was only shown in Sweden, sadly!

[@RavenIdril2966]

Here here!

[@tonyaharmon1383]

​@@HistorysForgottenPeople How Sad! Would You Know The Name Of It?❤😊

[@tonyaharmon1383]

Me Too!!❤😊

[@anna-carinroos1356]

Karin rests in Turku,(in Sewdish Åbo) Finland. And Erik in Västerås Carhedral, Sweden.

[@tondakremble6660]

Great story. I had never heard of her before. The doesn't seem to be much Swedish history. I wish for more!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 There's definitely a lot more Swedish history I'd love to cover, especially around this period/family.

[@beth7935]

Look up Queen Christina of Sweden! Literally the only Swedish history I know, but an amazing story- she was Queen Regnant a bit later, & with no spoilers, she was an extremely strong-willed & unusual character with an extremely dramatic life, & she caused quite a bit of scandal in Europe.

[@tondakremble6660]

TY Beth. I will absolutely check her out.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

As someone with Swedish ancestry it's interesting to heard about that part of the world. Hope you plan on doing more Swedish individuals.

[@kimm.8800]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople As a Swede, I can tip about princess Cecilia Vasa and queens Catherine Jagiellon, Louisa Ulrika, queen Sophia Magdalena and queen Hedvig Elisabeth Charlotte!

[@altinaykor364]

so many real life Cinderella stories throughout the world😁and yet rarely includes fairytale-ish happy endings or pure and legendary love stories💔Karin's situation with Erik seems one of those really really messy ones, because he was mad and paranoid, and that creates a question or whether was he really in love with her, or obsessed or, very messed up in his mind! and we don't know if she really loved him or not, because although she did protect him and was his anchor but, I'm sure it's really hard for any woman in this world to be such a refuge for a man who gets more broken as the time progresses. even if we can be sure that she did loved him at first and cared about him until the end, but the burden and pressure she must have felt is undeniable! and if in a relationship, one of the partners has some mental instability, there's always doubt if the love is real or not! but these nonsense doesn't make the story any less epic to me, as much as it's tragic💔💗

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're absolutely right, so few of them seem to have an actual happy ending in the way we would like. And as you say, we don't even really know what sort of relationship it was. As Karin was so dependant on him, I would even consider it might have been rather an unhealthy relationship, sadly!

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

I agree the real life cinderellas had more hell than bliss.

[@RavenIdril2966]

Cinderellas with no family really got railroaded in my opinion.

[@funtimefoxy6136]

She reminds me of Elizabeth Woodville, but her fate was even more tragic than Elizabeth’s, and she had to endure many hardships and tragedies. It seems Eric loved her a lot, but I guess she wasn’t as maligned as Elizabeth was. But she had quite a sad ending as her enemies dethroned her husband, she had to remain in exile, and her children were pushed aside and made illegitimate

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're right, there's definitely some parallels between her life and Elizabeth Woodville's, but I suppose ultimately Elizabeth had the confidence of nobility/royalty that Karin never had time to develop. ☹

[@pendragonsxskywalkers9518]

At least her children were spared and well-cared.

[@nocturne7371]

My syster is named Karin after her. Also in Sweden I think even small kids know about Erik XIV and the Pea soup. It's such a tantalising thing for kids since Pea soup and Panncakes iare the traditional Thurday food in Sweden, still to this day.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I didn't know that! Thanks, I love knowing little facts like that. 😊

[@tonyaharmon1383]

Thanks For Sharing This! Didn't Know Until I Read This!! Have A Great Weekend!!❤😊❤

[@jacquipeoples6147]

Can i ask if the "up to date" artwork that you use, are these actual paintings of what they looked like? Maybe im being daft 😂 buf if so the women were stunningly beautiful!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

No, those are AI images - I do try to make them more 'normal', but as Midjourney uses images from the internet, and the majority of those images are edited and touched up in some way, it's difficult to make it do more ordinary people. But I do keep trying! 🤣

[@jacquipeoples6147]

Well you've done an amazing job doll!!!

[@tuikkur.5655]

Karin is still called Finland's only queen. Greetings from Finland and thanks for the video! ❤

[@TheMimis11]

She is only ”Queen” Finland has.

[@t.r.luxx1311]

OMG, IVE NEVER BEEN THIS EARLY FOR A VIDEO!!!! IM SO EXCUTED TO SEE WHAT I'LL LEARN TODAY!!!! ❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I hope you enjoyed it! 😊

[@RavenIdril2966]

Are their any surviving portraits of Karin so I can see for myself how beautiful she was.

[@kimm.8800]

@@RavenIdril2966 Unfortunately, there are none left that was made during her life time.

[@MichelleBruce-lo4oc]

Hi, awesome live history video. I enjoyed it. How are you and Mallard, your cat doing? I'm doing well. My cat Benjamin says hi to you and your cute cat Mallard. He's doing well also. Have a great day. See you next video 😊

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I'm doing okay, just chasing my own tail doing all the things that still need doing for Christmas! Mallard is chilled out as always. I'm glad to hear you and Benjamin are doing well. 😊

[@RavenIdril2966]

Do we know now what king erik suffered from.

[@Pbav8tor]

They truly loved each other. And didn't have the Hapsburg jaw. A sisteenth century Megan and Harry. Same kind of turmoil.

[@tonibarrone854]

Very interesting! I never heard of her before thank you introducing a new royal queen. I like the small but brillant gems of history. Does anyone know what caused Erics insanity?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Someone with more in-depth knowledge of Erik hopefully will come along, but as far as I'm aware, it seems to just be one of those genetic things that occurs in some people and not others. His siblings don't seem to have shared his madness, but I do think some of Erik's paranoia was definitely stoked by those who found it useful (like Persson).

[@thomashunt6123]

Kah-rin, not Corin. What awful narration!

[@RavenIdril2966]

Swedish monarchy had a juicy past just like Britain and France.

[@jenniferbowen2081]

this was good one of the other ones thats tied to this family that well i think would be a good video on is catherine stenbock in fact there are a lot of others in the family too that would be good to do videos on as well.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Catherine Stenbock I think I would love to cover at some point, definitely! 😊

[@lfgifu296]

How would you order England’s (later Britain’s) Queens regnant from favourite to least favourite? Tbh I need some time and have just come up with the question, so I’ll let you go first☺️

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Okay, this is a big question! And I'm assuming, as much as I like her, that Jane Grey can't be included in this lol. Empress Matilda is my favourite - yes, she was never crowned, but I still count her as a queen regnant. Especially as twice her father's courtiers swore allegiance to her. Despite how many people think I hate her from the one video I've done on her, Elizabeth II would be next! I think she was a formidable person, and she did a good job in an extraordinarily difficult position. While she was cruel at times, I think a lot of it comes down to making herself very lonely for various reasons. Queen Anne next - she endured a hell of a lot, but she never lost sight of herself and her opinions on things. She was also the first monarch who really recognised that to remain a successful monarch, she had to acquiese to Parliament and involve herself in it. Mary I after that. She did some terrible things once she became monarch, but looking at the whole of her life it would seem Mary did a lot of good as well, and she tried to care about people. I think her upbringing and events that happened to her twisted a lot about her, and I have sympathy for that. I think Elizabeth II is next. I don't really want modern monarchy, but I do think she was ultimately a nice person who tried to connect with other people. Having said that, the very act of being modern means I've never understood how someone can be a monarch and spend vast amounts of money while their people struggle. I'm not sure anyone believes kings and queens are chosen by some higher power the way they once did. Queen Victoria is after her. She was fairly capable as a queen, and the British empire grew during her reign, but she was not a nice person. She was alternately an overbearing mother or a cold one, and she was apparently rude and nasty later on to many people. Mary II is last, but in all honesty, she and Victoria are joint last! I think she wasn't a good monarch because she rarely voiced her own opinions, instead bending to what her husband wanted, and she actively gave up her crown to someone who clearly would rather have taken it altogether instead of sharing. She also turned her back on her father and sister, mostly because of a dogged idea that she had to acquiese to her husband in all matters.

[@lfgifu296]

⁠@@HistorysForgottenPeopleoooh boy I love your answers, always so detailed! Solid choices! Tbh, I’m still not sure of my own order, so I’ll just give my thoughts on them by order of reign hehe (but my least favourite was Mary II, for sure) Empress Matilda’s reign is one that puts me on the fence- a coronation was, at the time, necessary, and Stephen was recognised as King, in spite of deadass fighting to sign the oath first💀. In any case, if one chooses to count her reign, it was remarkably small and tumultuous, so I can’t say much about it. As a person, though, a formidable woman, huge admiration for her, despite all. Mary I- you know what, I’m playing devil’s advocate for this one, because her faults are known to all (and exaggerated, too). She lived a miserable life, and (and this is the part when I get virtually stoned to death) her religious policies weren’t that different from those of Elizabeth’s early reign. Elizabeth wasn’t necessarily tolerant, she employed a don’t ask don’t tell policy, while most of the Marian Martyrs were very vocal in their criticism of Catholicism. Also, (and I have yet to check this, so sorry if I’m wrong) I think Thomas Cranmer repented only after the 80 day period he had to do so. Does this make it all good? No, of course not, I’m just saying ”Gloriana” and ”Bloody Mary” were not that different in regards to religious policy as many like to say. They were different in diplomatic success, true (may Philip II be damned), but I think she genuinely wanted to be a good Queen, as evidenced by her weekly hearings of people’s complaints. Elizabeth I- oof, so many mixed feelings: yes, she defeated the Spanish Armada, but kind of brought it upon herself with her founding of “privateers” amongst other things. Her religious policy was what I described above, and in later years it became nasty indeed. But there must be a reason even the POPE recognised her potential and said that “were she only a Catholic, she would’ve been our greatest friend” (the Pope’s statement about her gives me chills ngl). Personality wise, I think she never had a chance- lass was the daughter of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII💀- but let’s not include that. Mary II- a beige Queen. Not even the fashions in her court were good😭. For real though, she betrayed her father and was happy to push her sister aside for that arse of a spouse. Had she ruled alone, I don’t think she would’ve been a good Queen at all, she seemed more interested in other matters. My least favourite by far. Anne- also betrayed her father (and she lived in England, so there’s no excuse that she really believed Mary of Modena wasn’t with child) and spread misinformation regarding that whole affair. She seemed to be driven by her personal interests to a certain degree, and I don’t like her much as a person. Her childbearing record is absolutely devastating, though, no one should ever had to endure such a thing. Victoria- she was a figurehead, but, I think, a good one. The people generally liked her, and the British Empire reached its zenith (not good from a moral point of view, though). As a person, she was very selfish, though I’m sure she loved her children, but, having had a cold mother herself, wasn’t good at showing them affection, and often disregarded their feelings and preferences in favour of her selfish needs. Elizabeth II- again, a figurehead. A nice lass, maybe. The face of the Monarchy, for sure, and, I think, what held it together. That being said, I agree with what you said in regards to her living in luxury while her people starve (though, sadly, they all do that). Gosh, this one took a while haha :)

[@beth7935]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Fascinating answer, thanks!

[@beth7935]

@@lfgifu296 Fascinating list, thanks!

[@lfgifu296]

@@beth7935 thank you! Feel welcome to share your own thoughts :)

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Was her husband really insane or just ahead of his time and his courtiers betrayed him?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

No, he definitely had mental health problems - it sounds a lot like it was played on by some of those around him though, and that probably made it a lot more extreme than it should have been.

[@KittymoreJoy]

I wonder how inbred his family tree was. Very sad that such a talented, intelligent man who could have the potential to be an good King, but derailed by his mental illness and those who took advantage of his condition , abusing him and for their own benefit. I feel for a girl, who was the obsession of an unstable man, put into a shark tank court and trying to keep his moods calm. A woman with a kind heart, strength of mind to deal with situations not of her choosing with integrity and I suspect a hidden shrewdness and adaptability that people may have underestimated how intelligent she really was. Given a castle and holdings , she increased productivity - not the meek, malleable peasant of an obsessive man. It seems people liked her genuine warm personality. She was nobodies fool. Her hardships and pain did not make her bitter and I admire this little known Queen who had to navigate such challenges. Thank you for shedding a light back in history on a “Woman of Substance”. In my books. ❤❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's not often that someone pops up in history who is both famous (or infamous!) and is also a warm, kind-hearted person who doesn't ruffle many feathers, but Karin definitely seems to have been one of those people! I agree that I think a lot of people wrote off her intelligence as well, when you look at how well she ran her estates in later life, and her understanding of court life which she picked up quickly. I just Karin was also good at playing up her 'innocent' side when needed, haha.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Inbreeding was a great tragedy no doubt about it.

[@RavenIdril2966]

​@@HistorysForgottenPeoplewill you being doing any more Swedish royals any time soon?

[@jaclynroth1440]

While dramatic it’s a heck of a lot civilized than the stuff they pulled in England at that time.

[@marycaine8874]

And both pale in comparison to Russia.

[@Zebraarehorsetoo]

This reminds me of ‘remarried empress’ rashtha

[@lfgifu296]

Well I did plan to be here at seven, but yesterday went to sleep at 5 am, so let’s just say the “small nap” took a tad bit longer😭 Fascinating woman- ultimately a bit of a sad story, the result of ruthless and insane men :/ Plus, he didn’t have a wife, so no one suffered (I say, not having watched the video yet) from their adultery. Have a nice week all :)

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Yes, it's nice to find one where there was no wife - just a shame about the bloodthirsty madness! (There's always a catch... 😂) It is a bit of a sad story, but I suppose one way of looking at it is that she did better in life than she might otherwise have done. 😊

[@lfgifu296]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople yeah there’s either a wife or ripe mental illness🙄🙄 Gosh darn it one can have nothing 😞😞

[@janettelouden4967]

Wife’s of Kings and women associated had ill fates…. What did they think…… they would be special and would not be put to death or imprisoned !!!! Power ! 🤷‍♀️

[@keenoled]

Not a bad job with the pronounciations! And I never thought of Gustav Vasa as Gustav I. Hah. Of course he is.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much - I'm always nervous it will sound like another word altogether! 😂

[@aFallOutGirl]

around 2:42 there is a mistake. you say danish crown, instead of swedish crown. Erik was not king of denmark xD else I like the video!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'll fix it and put a note in my description!

[@alexandernordenskjold5739]

As a swede i,m pleased you can maybe make a video about Axel Oxenrstiena an aother forgeten but importet person. I noticed that you still have some troble the the sources not allowing you to show them. Gustav i is a funind father of my country but Erik xiv is seen as an idiot

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

There's definitely a lot of other interesting parts of Swedish history I would love to do a video on! (Catherine Stenbock is certainly on my list). Thanks for the suggestions, I'll add them too. 😊

[@krooks6367]

did i get this right that you said she belonged to lower gentry - that is not correct, she was of low birth. Erik XIV did´acknowledge his bastards and two of my friends is ascending from these ladies called *frillor*. . There is new knowledge about the way Erik killed Sturefamily. But you have to be able to read swedish to have some fun out of it.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Yes, she is generally thought of as being a commoner, but because there are uncertainties over her early life, some historians believe she 'may' have been lower gentry, which is how I worded it.

[@krooks6367]

In Sweden We learn that she was a tavernwench and far from gentry. I think that is wishfull thinking thst she was gentry. And prisonguard was low looked on work. Daughter to a prisonguard was low very low

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Very cool ✨️ Like deployed 👍

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, that's very kind! 😊

[@lyndamcmullen5506]

❤❤❤

[@JuliahistoryLover]

Love this narrator, sounds like the lady on telegram who narrates the documentary of things that make you go, “hmm”

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Aww, thank you so much! I'm not that lady, but I would love to narrate actual-on-TV documentaries one day! ☺

[@ginaandseason2774]

This is a weird question but are you ebird?

[@sharonharris9782]

They sound a lot alike, don't they? 😂

[@ginaandseason2774]

@@sharonharris9782 they sure do..are they the same person?

[@sharonharris9782]

​@@ginaandseason2774I have no idea, but the minute I read your comment, I was like yes they really do. I somehow doubt it though.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I'm not (I've never heard of ebird), but I'm definitely going to go check them out now! 😂 My name's Miranda, if you check out my Princes in the Tower video you can 'see' me as I actually appeared in that one, haha.

[@sharonharris9782]

​@@HistorysForgottenPeopleE bird does reality television recaps, and you do sound suspiciously like her. 😂 Maybe she's a long lost relative??? 😅

[@julians6620]

Was he really crazy ? I suppose I must be crazy, because my first thought after hearing he ran away from royal life to be a beggar, oppose common morally corrupt ideas (besides whacking people), marrying a “common” women, and having his child at his wedding I seriously was thinking this guy was a time traveler. 😂😂

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Oh, he definitely had a lot of ideas about things that we would simply recognise as 'modern' now, absolutely! The 'crazy' part came more from the fact he seemed to not his own mind sometimes, which could be extreme anxiety or worse, and the punishments he enacted on people (such as stabbing people in prison cells). But I do think it was made worse by those around him who benefited from it!

[@1796kent]

Karin Månsdotter is your first cousin once removed's partner's great aunt's husband's third great uncle's wife's mother.

[@nazlsenay7312]

...😊

[@barbaradenicomedia114]

Made with IA is shit.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Do you feel better now that's out of your system? ☺

[@MTCali70]

Why is it, it seems all Karin(Karens) are blonde..smh..

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

To be fair, Karin had the excuse of also being Swedish! 😂

[@MTCali70]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople she was a true Karin (Karen)..🤣😂 thank you! I love your channel

[@beth7935]

AI _does_ have a default setting that "beautiful woman = blonde with blue eyes", but in this case I have no complaints cos there's an actual contemporary description of Karin as blonde with blue eyes. Which is notable- it seems like Mediaeval records are _really_ good at describing people without any mention of their colouring, & it drives me nuts.

[@Angel-ts8rc]

The obsession with portraying all these women with long hair worn down with waves is so dumb. Hair up and covered was the norm for most of the eras you cover. And not the right clothing either. Or the makeup. Also not what she looked liked, what’s the point of these ai “recreations” that use a lot of defaults and modern day celebrities for the faces?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

There are literally no portraits of her except for a very rough pencil sketch, so unfortunately (unless you like seeing the same sketch over and over) there are very few ways to create images of her without using AI. (Also fascinated to know how you know exactly what she looked like for the same reason). I don't use any celebrities for the base model, I use existing images of the person from history - what a weird assumption! AI is still in its early days, so yes, it does often create them with long hair down, etc. When I have a budget the same as the BBC, then I'm sure I'll hire historically accurate models in exact clothing. Until then, I do spend painstaking hours attempting to get them as close as possible, but obviously it isn't 100%. Please feel free to enjoy another of the free history channels on KZbin if you're not enjoying this one.

[@Angel-ts8rc]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople didn’t say I knew what she looked like… I said “not what she looked like” as in the ai creation is not her. Lots of Ai does use celebrities in many programs, not saying particular artists, but ai. My comment was more so directed at the various similar channels that do similar stuff that have flooded history KZbin.

[@mellie4174]

Sadly that's why I rarely watch this channel. I just cannot take it seriously with the totally historicaly inaccurate images. No one knows what they looked like but we do know how hair, makeup and clothing was done during these periods...