Exploring Mycenaean Greece - Culture, Kingdoms and the Historical Context of the Trojan War

[@utsteinproductions]

Ancient cultures have always fascinated me. The fact that we have anything from them at all is amazing.

[@HistorywithCy]

I'm with you on this! Thanks for watching!

[@ano03030]

@@HistorywithCy Survive the Jive. Dan Davis History. Thuletide.

[@troymcclure5612]

Ĺĺĺĺĺĺlĺĺĺlĺĺ​@@HistorywithCy

[@nishensemble]

The best historian of our age. Cy.

[@HistorywithCy]

I don't know about that but honored and humbled that you think so! Thanks so much for the support and for watching!

[@randysavage1]

​​@@HistorywithCyHonestly your one of the most thorough historians on youtube, you try to add multiple contexts, and you give different possibilities on stuff where's there's missing pieces. No one's unbiased but I can't tell you try not to. Thanks for the hard work

[@kkupsky6321]

My wife loves his voice. It worries me… I never shoulda said “let’s lay down and listen to cy”. 🦄🦥💃🏼🕺🏼🙉😎

[@kkupsky6321]

Jkjk. I started talking about Linear B and she went right to sleep. I love it tho.

[@rheinhardtgrafvonthiesenha8185]

I love when he does the voices. I think it’s Sargon himself lol

[@TravelingDude420]

Cy, you truly have stepped in to take the place of History Channel for me. I just love the way you narrate and the flow you have to telling history that makes it come alive. However much careful planning you put into these videos really shows and is supremely appreciated.

[@phdtobe]

Absolutely. After The History Channel ran out Nazi documentaries, it morphed into the ridiculous.

[@Weedwizard600]

My people’s ancestors 🇬🇷💜🇬🇷

[@HistorywithCy]

Then you are from one of my favorite countries in the world... definitely my favorite in Europe! Thanks for watching!

[@Weedwizard600]

@@HistorywithCy history with Cy!!!!! you keep me sane during my night shifts man so thankful for your videos!!

[@heartonfire583]

@@HistorywithCywhat would be your favorite in the world?

[@HaimAlon]

😂ð​@@HistorywithCy

[@simoncrawley7430]

@@Weedwizard600😊😊😊

[@kephrekhtheunbroken7510]

So good to see so much detail in each city, must have been really tough to find info in such detail, thanks!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, I have a lot of b-roll from Mycenae, Tiryns and Pylos that I might just make short, separate videos on those places...or maybe something like a walking tour so that those of you who haven't been there can see what they're like. Thanks for watching!

[@cal2127]

​@@HistorywithCy would love to see them. also if you could do a deep dive on the terraforming done at gla. gla is fascinating

[@adambabbs2055]

I would just like to thank this channel for the important content it offers. Informative and doesn't waste everyone's time with deceptive re-enactments, which are never adequate. Instead we are shown actual artifacts, with labels, along with the archaeology and locale. Graphics are of low quality, but that's almost the point. Thanks.

[@7Pendragon]

I totally agree. It’s perfect!

[@jackdaly8908]

You have no idea how much I needed this, doing my classical civilisations gcse either this year or next, and I've been looking desperately for a reliable and interesting video on the mycenaeans.

[@HistorywithCy]

Glad this was useful. GCSE on Classical Civilizations sounds really interesting, good luck!

[@PathsUnwritten]

"What grand and majestic name should we give our new city?" "GLA" "Oh, I think he's puking"

[@sizanogreen9900]

"Nah, he isn't puking. He is a literal genius. Henceforth we all are the citizens of *GLA!"*

[@HistorywithCy]

😂😂😂

[@eamonwright7488]

@@sizanogreen9900Making GLA Great Aegean!

[@sarahrosen4985]

The 3 founders of Gla: we'll use our initials! It will be so cool. Or Tourism board of Gla: we'll create this 3-letter combo trademark for our city. It will be groundbreaking. Meanwhile, present day: what a weird name. Now, back to Mary Beard's book on the Roman Empire: SPQR.

[@sizanogreen9900]

at least you could pronounce "Gla"@@sarahrosen4985

[@ROBERTGOTSCHALL-j8u]

My tour guide in the mountain view at 2:20 explained that the two peaks represented cattle horns. She went on to explain the old Greek culture here, but I'm only now understanding what she was talking about.

[@therobn]

Great stuff as always! Better than any other history channel available 😀

[@Boatish]

I dont know how Cy does it. He keeps it interesting and entertaining in this one as always, his passion just bleeds through into it. Good work!

[@matthewwagner7140]

If I become a teacher, I may use your content, it’s well presented, well organized, and has a TON of valuable historical information. Keep it up Cy

[@Kariakas]

So happy to see new upload, now to sit back and enjoy.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!

[@edgrundy8739]

Thank you Cy! I've amassed so many hours watching your Mesopotamian videos and more that at this point, frankly, it would just be a bit rude of me not to tell you that you're the bees knees of a KZbin Historian! Fascinating content, passionately curated and lovingly presented - much thanks from the UK!

[@Oshidashi]

Thanks, youve become one of my fav history channels over the years

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, appreciate the kind words and glad you like the content. Thanks for watching all of these years, means a lot!

[@GLeibniz1716]

Ah the Mycenaeans: wonderful, alluring, enchanting and, to this day, enigmatic. Their civilization is utterly unique- thanks for this ep. on a chilly Sunday night! Be safe.

[@HistorywithCy]

Agreed. I had so much fun researching and making this video and will do more Mycenaean-related stuff in the future. Thanks for watching!

[@ionelghiorghita688]

​@@HistorywithCyI'm looking to find out as much as possible about the Europe and especially south eastern Europe history and I really enjoyed to see that someone separated the Mycenaean history of the Greek history. Actually the Greeks coming in the area are the beginning of the end of the Mycenaean civilization. There were two different kind of culture. Where ever the Greeks came, they found there the pelasgians which seems to be the south Thracians or similar people and we know this from Herodotus. We know also that the last isle conquered by the Greeks was Lemnos and the Greeks said that the Thracians were the original people of it. Iliad is also saying that the Trojans called to help them some Thracians being rhem relatives. The Greeks were a civilization of wars/conflicts, authority and domination property of the land, slavery, patriarchy and people control. The Minoan and the Mycenaean culture were exactly the opposite. The same process of destruction happened when a similar culture as the Greek one, the Indo-European one came and destroyed the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture. The same, again when the Rome a culture derived from the Greek culture raised up, the Etruscans culture, matriarchy, no war weapons, no authorities, no slavery, was destroyed. So I think that a few important changes made the Europe and all the world to be what it is today, a jewish culture and hegemony world. The book "A new history of the humanity" reveal the last of this changes, when the Europeans invade and conquered the North America territories and in that book is a good description and understanding of this process of the cultural changes.

[@ion6248]

@@ionelghiorghita688 You re seriously uneducated

[@the_clawing_chaos]

Do I have an hour and a half to watch a video on Mycenaean Greece? Hell yeah!

[@lostboy8084]

You literally have been my go to for History ever since History Channel stopped showing actual History it is hard to find long videos featuring History. And fun fact yesterday I was looking at a recommended article saying that Minoan and Mycenaeen share common ancestors due to similarities in DNA they both descended from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean but Mycenaeen people who are share DNA ancestry with the modern Greeks have an additional ancestry of Caucasus and Iran northern steppe populations.

[@WildVoltorb]

I recommend Ancient Americas channel, they have a very similar style but it's all about ancient america. Fall of Civilizations it's also amazing. Covers ancient history from all over the world but they post only once every six months or so. One of my favorite channels is Religion for Breakfast on the topic of history of religions

[@lostboy8084]

@@WildVoltorb will check it out

[@lostboy8084]

@@WildVoltorb Subcribed to them

[@nicolelaw4469]

I was like "only 10,000 views?? how, this is gold!" and then I saw "posted 13 hours ago"

[@jayb-wickorsnow5956]

Yo you are a legend bro your videos always are top notch with detail of primary evidence and great narration of old texts. Your one of the best history channels on KZbin 1000%

[@turcoscopianogloubastardov6162]

A big mistake that almost every non-Greek does: Homer , originally, didn't write about the fight between the Greeks and the Trojans. But between Achaeans and Trojans. (originally: Αχαιοί τε και Τρώες ....). For some reason foreigners, non- Greek Historians/translators, translated it wrong since ever ..... Because Homer was Ionian Greek from Miletos, next to Troy, he knew and he considered Trojans to be Hellenes (Greeks), with the same Greek names (trojan Paris was also called Alexandros) same Greek habits, architecture, worshipping the same Greek Gods .... I'm looking forward for a non-Greek historian to distinguish and referre to what Homer exactly originally wrote.

[@SqueeberDeeb]

Oh wow. I'm really going to enjoy this! All of Cy's videos are incredible. Excellent narration, the maps/footage of the different locations just make it all a treat to watch.

[@sunsetsunrise207]

You’re amazing man the quality is unmatched

[@Aijia_Vance]

Cy, Ive been looking for consolidated information on mycenae for a bit now. Very glad youve made something

[@HistorywithCy]

Awesome, I hope this helps! Thanks for watching!

[@traitorfang1416]

Just started and I arleady known I am going to love this video. Can't wait to binge this all in one go. Good stuff mate! keep it up, really loving your series on the ancient Egyptian dynasties.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much, really glad you're enjoying this and the other topics. Working on the next Egypt Dynasty video and hope to have it out next month. Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!

[@DthBakesh]

As a history teacher, I am insanely grateful for that titanic work. Will use parts of this video when would be teaching my students Mycenaean civilization

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, I'm really glad you enjoyed it! I also was a history teacher for a short while and wish we had covered the Bronze Age in more detail. If there's anyway that I can help you (books, sources, presentations etc.) please don't hesitate to send me an email. Thanks for watching, appreciate it!

[@christinadegand7634]

Very good documentary. Clear and explicit . Well done .

[@stanleystudios5186]

A splendid surprise to be sure!

[@HistorywithCy]

Enjoy!

[@terminator324343]

One interesting thing about the Tudhaliya letter to the King of Amuru, the title Great King of Ahhiyawa was actually crossed out by the scribe, potentially meaning that the Mycenaean States were beginning to decline at that time, causing them to lose their status as equals to the Hittite Kings.

[@ufc990]

I really need to hop on patreon, I feel like I owe it to you. Since discovering your channel about a year ago I consistently watched your videos every morning while shaving and in the background until I exhausted them about 4 months ago. My house seems different without your voice there so it's always good to see when you've published new work. The quality was great as always, my interest lies primarily in the Near East but I am always impressed by the consistent quality you display and your ability to digest and pass on information. Masterful.

[@paulking54]

Fascinating and extremely detailed research. As a student of Ancient History it really helped me to pull together lots of threads of information that hadn't been connected. It's nice to see Mycenae again, been about 30 years since I went there with college. Thanks alot CY,top notch.

[@anitapollard1627]

Just yesterday, i was pining away about when is Cy our History guy ever going to give us more of his awwesome hard work and botta boom botta bing! Here's Cy the History guy 😁 with what looks like a well waited for epic!!! Thank you Cy!

[@Andy_Babb]

Another excellent video. Look forward to watching the rest tomorrow

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks and hope you enjoy it!

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Never stop reading the patreons, I live to hear Pastafrola.

[@HistorywithCy]

Always fun for me to read...thanks for watching all the way to the end, appreciate it!

[@julians7268]

It is just mind blowing to me when he pulls out the texts, 57:51 for example where Arnuwanda is straight replaying Maddu's F up for him, from over two and a half millennia ago like they were just some tweets on X or something!?! There should be a class in school where kids just get to hear the voices of our ancestors. Hear them speak of their issues, their concerns, their treachery, and triumph. It would be awesome. Also, i wish there was a website that would catalog all the available texts in a single place. I bet AI will one day make tremendous advances in these documents. Especially considering how so many of them remain unread and not deciphered.

[@kaarlimakela3413]

❤ At 24:50 zoom in, everybody, on the roof of that vault. The details!

[@HistorywithCy]

Amazing... can you imagine what it must have looked like just after it was finished? Incredible stuff! Thanks for watching!

[@danielhummer4482]

Absolutely amazing that there is a free video for over an hour, covering the Mycenaeans! I’m looking forward to this!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and giving us the facts, theories, and voices of past civilizations! This is beyond cool 🙂🔺☀️🔺🙏

[@kendallbyrd9875]

Good to see a new video been looking forward to this one !

[@Numba003]

Thank you for another fantastic video! I love these longer episodes. I enjoy how the Myceneans are simultaneously mysterious and yet well-known in the historical and archeological record. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much, glad you found it useful... I like longer ones too because I feel I can tell a more complete story. Thanks for watching!

[@SIC66SIC66]

Ah yes, the well loved perfume consisting of 6 coriander seeds and 576 liters of wine

[@Language_Guru]

Thank you, Cy, for the vast amount of time and effort you expend to create these fascinating and in-depth videos!

[@crazeelazee7524]

It should be mentioned that Agamemnon's and Menelaus's father was named Atreus. It wouldn't be surprising if the "Attarsiya" mentioned by the Hittites was Atreus. After all, Agamemnon and Menelaus being both kings would imply an inheritance of a kingdom that encompassed atleast their two kingdoms.

[@TomMorrison-cc6xw]

Yup. 35,000 years later the name would be "Atreides."

[@chitzkoi]

What a wonderful achievement Cy. Well done for your efforts as always. 90+ minutes must have been a big chunk of work on many fronts!

[@TheRedneckPreppy]

Cy dropping the elbow smash with 1.5 hours of Mycenean goodness! Thank you sir and your hard work is very much appreciated.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks man, always appreciate that you continue to tune into these vids. Lots more on the way, stay tuned and as always, thanks for watching!

[@lastofmygeneration]

Your content never disappoints, Cy!!!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

[@czechthisout]

An hour and a half Cy video on the Mycenaeans? Instant like

[@HistorywithCy]

Enjoy and thanks for watching!

[@cal2127]

need another hour and a half more

[@mike8903]

Love the pacing on this one. A+

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

[@joeshmoe8345]

Thanks for sharing with us Cy Guy!

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@Priyo866]

I love the thing with the historical "King Attarasiya" mentioned in Hittite records as the Mycenaean/Achaean high king who led a large naval invasion of Cyprus and other Hittite lands ...and the similar-sounding King Atreus of Mycenae, the supposed great ancestor of King Agammemnon of Mycenae and founder of the dynasty as mentioned in the Iliad, Odyssey and the other Trojan War cycle documents. I know it is just a faded, distant memory of real events mythologized and turned into fictional literature by a series of later post-Collapse bardic poets (of which Homer was one of the last) but still, the glimpses like these from their perspective are amazing.

[@FuzzyLogic890]

Just wonderful. Thank you for this

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank YOU for watching!

[@QalOrt]

I've been reading George Nagy's Greek Mythology and Poetics, binge watching Wanax TV and now Cy's feeding my addiction for Achaean History.

[@irvingmarcovici8445]

Yet another amazing video!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you!

[@Light_spot_]

Thank you for the great content ❤

[@HistorywithCy]

You're welcome!

[@theScrupulousBerserker]

History with Cy: a gentleman, a scholar & a legend! Keep up the exemplary work & research! 🐻🙌🏼 Skål

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much, I hope to live up to your kind words in future videos. Thanks so much for watching, really appreciate it and stay tuned for more!

[@rupertmiller9690]

Excellent production quality, easily followed narration and well chosen imagery. I'd expect nothing less from Cy.

[@robijnbruinsma4489]

This is a magnificent piece of work, Cy. I hope it will be used a lot in schools.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks for the feedback and for watching, really appreciate it!

[@SolracCAP]

Attarissiya sounds suspiciously like Atreus, father of Agamemnon and King of Mycenae. You hear his name all the time throughout the Iliad.

[@AWSMcube]

Kind of like Atrahasis, from the Akkadian flood myth

[@BenSHammonds]

very much enjoy the scenery and the ruins filmed on such a beautiful day, blue sky and bright sunshine, a beautiful location !! I hope one day to visit. Have been told that in the early language the way the word Mycenae was said is as follows: mic-ken-eye, and mic-ken-eye-an

[@eviesholette]

I remembered to hit like before your dulcet tones and professional presentation lull me to sleep! Yes! Love your work, it's enjoyable and informative when I'm fully awake and soothing for when I need to fall back asleep!

[@jeraldbaxter3532]

Great video! Thank you!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you liked it!

[@stefansoder6903]

This is so good! Thank you!

[@HistorywithCy]

Glad you liked it and thanks for watching!

[@JustGrowingUp84]

Excellent documentary, Cy!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@whyjnot420]

One thing to point out is that all archaeological excavation is by its very nature, destructive. The real difference between good and bad lies in how well a dig is documented.

[@derock78videos5]

so underrated brother love this channel

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, so glad you're enjoying the content... lots more on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@gregorynixonAUTHOR]

Well-researched, well presented: JUST EXCELLENT!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, appreciate the feedback and really glad you enjoyed this. More on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@Jurek009]

this was great! very well made!

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, was fun to make and thanks for watching!

[@eamonwright7488]

I love it! Watched this video 3 times now!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much, really glad you enjoyed this! I loved making it and comments like this motivate me to put out even more content for you all! Thanks again for the support!

[@damescholar]

A masterful presentation. Thank you very much!

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, was fun to make and thanks for watching!

[@TomiTapio]

Like 75 to 88% of population were food producers (farmers), before advanced 1300-1890 agriculture.

[@letterkeys4440]

right on time for my history of western civ course

[@HistorywithCy]

Enjoy and hope this helps!

[@shireencama4299]

What an impressive video!!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

[@YadinZedek777]

Great production as always

[@oltyret]

Thanks Cy. Now I have more detail to add to my daily thinking about Mycenaean Greece.

[@HistorywithCy]

Awesome, glad this was useful! Thanks for watching!

[@ThomasJJacksonVA]

Thanks, Cy. More great stuff.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, and thanks for watching!

[@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making an hour long video on my absolute favorite ancient civilization 😻😻😻🧿🧿🧿

[@SquirrelGrrl]

Absolutely top notch!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you!

[@hia5235]

Amazing footage!

[@geraldmeehan8942]

Thank you, Cy!

[@madsdahlc]

Great video. Even though that palace centers were themself cities. Remember that below there was a lover town and an outer citywall . Also historians now belive that pylos may have been fortified. But that there was a wall around the lover town . There may be more palace centers un-discovered yet.

[@HistorywithCy]

Yeah I'm sure Pylos must have had some sort of wall, just they haven't found remnants of a cyclopean one like at Tiryns or Mycenae. The stones and bricks from the older wall were probably small enough to be taken and used for later constructions as was often the case in the ancient world. Thanks for watching!

[@giorgosthoma849]

that was a great Video! Loved how you presedent the evidence!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, so glad you enjoyed it... was a lot of fun for me to research and hope to put out more Mycenaean-related stuff in the future. Thanks for watching!

[@markaxworthy2508]

It would be interesting to know how the Irish-Argentine Community related to the Anglo-Argentine community. Were the Irish also in the upper, monied tier of Argentine society? Are the Irish today essentially a middle class group, or are there poor Irish Argentines in any numbers? To what degree have they kept themselves separate from Hispano-Italian Argentines?

[@patrickotis3884]

Thank you again Cy

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@noahlogue]

Cy you crazy man you did it thank you so much!

[@HistorywithCy]

No, thank YOU for watching, really appreciate it!

[@EsmereldaWeatherwax-f1s]

Excellent work Cy, thank you :-)

[@HistorywithCy]

You're welcome, thanks so much for watching!

[@J5460-r8z]

Well done!

[@ilari90]

in bulgaria was found the largest gold caches from neolithic so maybe they traded some of the gold from north for some items from other parts of mediterranean.

[@ds-on4sm]

The Myceneans are of course not greek but Thracian(Bulgarian). There were no greeks here before 1800 BC. Linear B is proto-Bulgarian. Later known as the Glagolitic alphabet.

[@ellinmakedon1216]

​@@ds-on4smDreams only Dreams 🤣🤣👽🛸

[@ds-on4sm]

@@ellinmakedon1216 Only in the Greek dreams . We don't need to dream but claim it. This is Bulgarian(Aryan) history beyond doubt until the Greek pirates from Africa destroyed Mycena. They didn't need writing, let alone invent it ,so this period is called the Dark ages , means lack of culture and explains everything. .

[@ellinmakedon1216]

@@ds-on4sm maybe the whole world🤣

[@ds-on4sm]

@@ellinmakedon1216 The Greeks be like: we wuz kangs, we wuz Myceneans and Minoans:)))

[@VitorSantana-ju9ir]

Os micenios sao da mesma etinia dos gregos?

[@JeremyBaconThe1st]

The papyrus in 0:29 should be in Greece. At least we can understand what it says

[@IblameBlame]

Wasn't "Minoan Hieroglyphs" an entirety different form of writing, the oldest known examples of which are older than the oldest known Linear A texts, but which then existed alongside it?

[@AiCinemAddict]

Most enjoyable. Thank you.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!

[@henkstersmacro-world]

👍👍👍 Always great to hear from you!!

[@HistorywithCy]

And you too...thanks for always tuning in to watching these!

[@Massimo2.0-zj1qy]

I have a question: is it acceptable to assume that the classical greeks remembered at least some things from the myceanean period ((such as the names of cities such as Mycenae and Athens, the names of many gods, the anatolian etymology of some mythological characters' names, the words bronze age greeks used to call themselves with, the idea that Crete used to be powerful)? Obviously I am not saying that the Minotaur was real.

[@Rion101-w7r]

But the minotaur was real

[@Massimo2.0-zj1qy]

@@Rion101-w7r there are no remains of a giant bull werewolf thing we know of, It never existed

[@cal2127]

​@@Massimo2.0-zj1qyabscense of evidence isnt evidence of absence.

[@Rion101-w7r]

@@Massimo2.0-zj1qy Now you see how close minded that logic is?

[@Adsper2000]

⁠@@cal2127You need evidence that cattle sperm can’t fertilize a human egg (and vice versa)? Are you volunteering to test this hypothesis?

[@krapfantasy]

16:04 inventory of estate for sure. For inheritance purposes etc ofc. Still done today.

[@leminjapan]

I love how before you got into the nitty gritty of the culture, you first established its mythological and then geographical framework. THAT is how you teach history.

[@Huy-G-Le]

Flax and Hemps, you can turn both in foods, and linen for clothing.

[@carriekelly4186]

Great one thanks so much.

[@Prometheus0804]

This is good work, ty

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you for watching!

[@jameseicher6916]

Truly excellent! Thank you!

[@giorgosthoma849]

though I've seen theroies that state that Mycenean inflnce in anatolia was greater than most people think I think you showed what twe know for sure without bias and I apleadu you for that

[@cal2127]

makes sense. look at the ionian city states and ephesus. ephesus has mycenaen layers

[@calinradu1378]

From what I read the Minoans rebuild their palaces to perhaps even greater splendour after the destruction of Thira in 1628 BC. They may have fought each other or another cataclysm may have happened just before the Mycenaean conquest of Crete at round 1450-1425 BC but certainly that military action on their behalf ended the independence of Minoan Crete and caused at least a substantial part of the destruction. I believe, like many others, that a better dating for the Trojan War is somewhere between 1200 and 1180 BC. This would better correspond to the traces of burning seen in that interval at the Troy VIIa layer. The event described during the reign of Hattusili III may very well refer to an earlier Achaean attack on Wilusa before 1250 BC, which didn't destroy it and is reflected in a tale regarding an expedition of Hercules there or somewhere near. As far as I read the collapse of the Mycenean palaces wasn't a sudden event but more a slow decline, which does not exclude partial, smaller episodes of destruction. Archaeology unveiled more of a decline that spanned for may decades until the sites were finally abandoned in the late 12th century BC. This is reflected in the narratives regarding king Orestes son of Agamemnon and his descendants who reigned until the seizure of the city by the Heraclids. Pylos is an exception since there there are traces of a sudden more thorough destruction as seen in the burned tablets uncovered and the culprits were likely pirates.