Hoi4 BBA - Best Occupation Laws?

Hello there. Which occupation laws should you use in BBA now that civilian oversight got nerfed into the ground.
google sheets: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Twitch.tv/71Cloak

[@sosbabe2804]

Italy players rushing to this video after Ethiopia boarded the train in multiplayer lol.

[@Reeceumms1814]

Yea that happens more than you think, I still get mad when the mission to pacify Ethiopia pops up

[@AssassinAgent]

TBH, I've pretty much always used the basic cav template with no support equipment on secret police.

[@SMGJohn]

Just make a 2.40 IC light tank and put one mill on it, you almost never run out unless you are major blitzkrieging everything but then you also can afford 5 mills on it.

[@marecare223]

Work for me also

[@s0lsticefr4]

glad to see a guide on this

[@arjunmuruganandam3373]

Agreed

[@carter3329]

Does IC stand for Income Cost?

[@hikmetazim]

@@carter3329 İnstruction cost probably

[@Ugnep-sw9ng]

I usually just do local police force cause it's the cheapest in terms of manpower. Works well enough for majors, you just have to do secret police or Military governor for specific countries like Poland/Benelux. The main issue is just lacking guns for garrisons for minor powers. It's usually better to puppet as a minor since now you can get their civs and resources through the new mechanics.

[@marthvader14]

Why secret police or Military governor for Poland and Benelux? Which new mechanics?

[@Ugnep-sw9ng]

@@marthvader14 no new mechanics just those countries have focuses they take that make them have more resistance. So local police force usually doesn't quite cut it.

[@chutzzy]

@@marthvader14 he meant war reparations and local resource rights options in new peace deal.

[@Thorium_]

I'm convinced 71cloak knows more about this game than paradox does

[@giahungnguyen6334]

Wait you haven’t cover Liberated Worker and Local Autonomy. I suppose LA is an even more extreme version of Civilian oversight, but what about LW? Should I choose it over Local Police force?

[@redvorno]

Liberated Workers is basically similar to Local Police Force but it gives you 20% more factories and 30% more resources while requiring slightly more garrisons (which also receive extra damage). You would get slightly less factories then Harsh Quotes initially, but as compliance builds up you should get more factories as years go on. If you can go for Liberated Workers, the definitely pick it

[@dionelshani1083]

Liberated workers is by far the strongest occupation law

[@dudugardus343]

Liberated workers its the best occupation law so far,except the italian colonial police or turkey special law,i forgot the name

[@giahungnguyen6334]

@@dudugardus343 turkish one is reconciliation

[@Link9058]

always go liberated workers if resistance stays below 25%

[@MichaelBrown-ri8wl]

Great Video, I do think it is missing one thing however. For the allies who start with a lot of their colonies at 70% compliance civilian oversight is very useful for getting that compliance high leading up to the war and it doesn't cost you much due to the already high compliance.

[@Erealista300]

Compliance doesn't need to be applied equally everywhere; if you just give a separate order for the colonies such as "civilian oversight" or "local autonomy", the video still applies the same way to conquered territories.

[@alexmannen1991]

the diminishing returns of compliance increases with compliance so having secret police at start to 5-10 switching to local police to 20 then going civilan seems best.

[@pubcollize]

Civilian Oversight could be useful if you already have high compliance for whatever reason.

[@bombidil3]

I use it if you start with the tiny, high compliance Pacific nations that Japan occupies. You can quickly get them to form a collab government, which sets them up to start the generic focus tree. It's just kind of fun to watch the 21K population of Mariana Federation have 4 Civs, 4 Mils, and 3 Dockyards. Highly efficient workforce!

[@not-askaven2990]

I always just do whatever keeps resistance below 25 or local police so after watching the video, I am surprised how well martial law did, local police at peace to build compliance and martial law at war to clamp down on resistance seems like the best option I think, with Quotas being for a big industrial center unsuitable for mass deployment

[@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding]

You should have done a test with a prince of terror advisor to see how it garison damage reduction chamges the factories gained.

[@PadaV4]

It shouldn't change the factory count, only the manpower/equipment losses. No?

[@carter3329]

Does IC stand for Ice Cream?

[@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding]

@@carter3329 Yes.

[@carter3329]

@@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding Thx! thought so

[@liborkozak8938]

Yeah, I would love to see the cost-effectiveness of collaboration governments against high compliance and puppets with war reps and resource rights too.

[@frankunderbush]

Great to see an analysis on this. I definitely changed up my strat to do harsh quotas/forced labor for places with high resources and factories. For games of any reasonable length they're generally worth it imo

[@markusz4447]

Someone thought like that some 80 years ago :/

[@DartXL]

Thanks for the video and the insightful analysis. There are several other ways to reduce resistance, such as using intelligence agents. This can be combined with laws such as Civilian oversight if you need to increase obedience. This combination came in handy when I played for Ethiopia, which had a shortage of rifles.

[@tagus100]

I mainly stick to Local Police Force by default, and use Civ Oversight for things like Ethiopia (to complete Pacification of Ethiopia mission). I might start to do that Martial Law for states with low factories trick. Thank you!

[@RobinMeineke]

Should have compared the lost IC to the gained IC from factories. Pretty sure gain from harsh quotas make up for the losses many times. And as you said factories now are worth way more now than in 2 years.

[@RomanLavandos]

Thanks for the video. Always was interesting to see why occupation laws in mods was an easier choice than in vanilla HoI4 😅

[@therustler30]

Come back brother, your hoi4 videos are without a doubt the best

[@trevorburgoyne]

Isn't liberated workers (for communist countries) just a better version of local police force since you get extra factories up front while still getting decent compliance gain? I'd be interested to see how it compares to harsh quotas

[@terralp2062]

Liberated workers is the best.

[@TheMelnTeam]

You need significantly more garrisons, and those garrisons take more damage. However, the gains are very noticeable, so unless you're scraping every last manpower you can manage and flush with production (usually only a mod situation), liberated workers is often the best occupation law choice. Garrison damage is still negligible if you have a light tank + MP support setup, especially with compliance.

[@dutchrjen]

Civilian oversight is very good if at peace with compliance above 20% (or really about 25% when you get the police force reduction). When at war it's still good if compliance is over 50% and the owner is not in exile. If the owner is in exile and the compliance is over 75% then civilian oversight is good.

[@anderarmould]

So.....have a 40 width heavy tank division template for Moscow, Paris, Warsaw, and 40 width horse everywhere else.

[@thefakeslimshady4306]

I think that it would be an awesome idea for you to talk about what changes you would make to the game that would make it better in your opinion.

[@VarenvelDarakus]

dont forget spies are great to use for resistance supression paired up with civilian oversight combo , same as collaborative government , civilian oversight in its "alone" is not great , but paired up with 1 spy on resistance suppression and 1-3 collabs its powerful but save them for big countries , for germany that would be ether france and russia , or Poland France and Russia , even if you do it just to 60% , or 75-90% if you get lucky crits(use preferably spies from nation you do collab , higher crit chance) spy resistance suppression seams to work besy when put on nation capital it is a bit painful you leftout local autonomy and workers(communism occupation law) as communism has best occupation law. you could easily switch Germany to "communism" using console commands and do same tests with these 2 laws

[@Jacmac1]

This is funny because I started setting it on Secret Police only because it seemed to be the only one where I could set it as the default and just forget about it. I sometimes go in and make adjustments, mostly I just leave it alone.

[@darthbob8428]

you should have added in manpower gained from complaince etc, because that can replace some of the losses so it would be interesting to see if that changes any results, e.g. local police force getting much better becasue manpower saved is much higher

[@bendereus1198]

Love these videos!

[@rocketjumper1380]

you talk about how martial law would be useful in regions with no factories, but it's worth it to consider the fact that if you get compliance up, then you can actually PUT more factories in those occupied spaces. This is especially useful for mid-late game when you're running out of space to put factories due to the amount of civilian factories constructing. Wouldn't compliance, to some degree, be more worth it? By the way, great video, I can tell lots of effort went into it, and it's a huge breath of fresh air to see something as comprehensive as this. Keep up the good work

[@Swbossdestroyer]

i havent watched th vid yet but i usually use secret police then when they have around 20 compliance i switch it to local police force and wait for the compliance to grow some more and then go to civ oversite

[@SonofAlbion]

Things I didn’t expect to learn from this video: they you can set police level state by state. Great stuff as always: well done sir! Side/ linked note what is the best strat to optimise compliance growth? Civilian over site and just take the costs come peace or war? The reason I asked is I’m planning to do the Maccu my day achievement and the changes to compliance in BBA means making the collaboration government in China (and India) take a whole lot longer now.

[@zacharysilver911]

For the Macau May Day achievement you need to release Macau as a collab before you add any of China so it’s actually not that bad since it should start with higher compliance.

[@SonofAlbion]

@@zacharysilver911 I know but they nerfed starting compliance and compliance gain a lot in BBA: hence my question on compliance growth

[@markusz4447]

just had to quit a game as germany because I was losing like 2k guns a day from occupation and that obviously messed my plans up quite a bit. Your video will come in handy, thanks!

[@timhand3380]

Yes, it grinds guns. Keep increasing factories on guns to max the production growth. Use local police, except where over 25%resistence use military governor until it drops to 15% resistance is just a good rule Set Up Collab govts, absolutely massive starting points to compliance can use local police to start.

[@timhand3380]

It's a one way street too, once you start bleeding it gets worse. Overproduce guns, and don't swtch to higher tech unless your sure you have enough. Local police uses least manpower, also, a temp fix is Focus resistance suppression, put MP in cav garrisons expand garrison template so support equipment doesn't go red too, but you must get it under control.

[@deilusi]

I like secret police as it have that benefit to intel, not sure how much it matters, but I feel like it does a bit, with la resistance. what it does not take into account is your trash. Your garrisons can utilize trash tech, early mechanized, interwar tanks that are too slow/weak for you. that IC cost, its important to see if it's IC you want, or is it IC you have and would throw away otherwise.

[@pasanaator9874]

You should've also tested out local autonomy to see if the faster compliance there is worth the extra resistance

[@liborkozak8938]

I would love to see the cost-effectiveness of collaboration governments against high compliance or puppets with war reps and resource rights.

[@soldieroffortune308]

Hey Cloak, you alright? You've basically gone missing for 2 months.

[@TheMelnTeam]

The light tanks save manpower a lot faster than they save IC, and if you're running mods that grief your manpower options like kaiserreich or others where you can't use puppet annexation to get more, that might be top priority. Collab + 25 light tank with MP support can make a lot of regions of the world net you positive manpower for taking them, unless your war casualties are bad. Another very important thing about these laws: your up-front costs change a great deal if you complete a collaboration government. 45% is preferred, but even 30% is an immediate -15% resistance target...it's like having two years of local police force, at the cost of the spy time/tiny equipment cost to do the collab. No occupation law can match it in terms of IC savings, and 30% compliance is higher than the resting point for some of the laws, which you'd probably be less inclined to use if you build up the compliance already. Prince of terror is always nice when it's an option.

[@saopro21]

I think all they've done with this update (and I think this is really stupid) is just make collab govs EVEN more OP than they already were. Axis without doing collab govs used to be a detriment, now it's straight up unplayable.

[@Link9058]

i usually just leave default on military governor and then change individual regions to whatever gives the most compliance while remaining below 25% resistance

[@Helldiver5n23]

all i use is base cav template w/ local police during no war and if at war, i swap it to military gvmt

[@bombidil3]

Something you might have overlooked. Local Police Force takes *_-50%_* garrison damage, meaning you have a relatively small garrison with a huge equipment loss discount if I am understanding that correctly.

[@mavfin8720]

Don't forget, if I read it right, once you get to 25% compliance, local police force is built into it, so I've always stayed local police force till 25%, then switched to civilian after that. But, that depends on resistance, of course.

[@iandomorocks6731]

When are you coming back @71Cloak?

[@Timonen76]

I use 3 garrison + 3 armored car + 3 cavalry and MP. Armored cars are cheaper than light tanks to produce.

[@Drazja]

I thought I had heard that the size of division template doesn't matter just the composition. They only pull the size of Garry needed . And what about armored cars?

[@stormsand9]

If at war I just stick to Martial law. Keep those losses down, and that resistamce down!

[@thomads3890]

Have you noticed how severely worldtension has been changed recently? Yuge-o-Slavia or even conquering a single neighbouring country is basically impossible now O_O

[@SonofAlbion]

I did Hugo salvia yesterday. You don’t need to work around WT you need to work around what garuntees you have and lose. You are basically on the clock around demand Sudetenland.

[@MrNicoJac]

I think everyone has spare IC, right? I mean, even as a minor, you'll want to get better guns, so you'll probably have some older guns to spare at all times. Good to know that Local Police Force will be the way to go for me :) (with martial law for annoying provinces that do not have many factories, haha)

[@Niaggro]

Hey 71Cloak, any plans on trying WA Mod at any time? :) Id like to see you beating China

[@vanagonwarfare1692]

If your already using armored cars, might aswell use them in your divsions

[@TheMelnTeam]

Using armored cars at all is a mistake

[@XmXStuka2]

I detest. 2.4 cheapest light tank (inter war) is really great choice. Pit one line on 1936 and you get enough if ur major. Its not cheapest ic wise but works well with military police and cav

[@johngalt5166]

I found that 50 width armored cars with MP’s work pretty well, I always have an excess of armored cars so maybe it’s just me 😅

[@blahmaster6k]

The light tanks he showed give the same suppression as armored cars, more hardness, and are cheaper. Don't use armored cars unless you don't have the no step back DLC for the tank designer.

[@johngalt5166]

@@blahmaster6k o shoot I didn’t know they had the same suppression 😭

[@cc0767]

have you also tested for the communist occupation law, liberated workers? I remember that beeing pretty good from Remans original video on occupation.

[@agentchunk55]

What about no garrison? Seems like everyone forgets that's an option

[@TheMelnTeam]

It removes compliance gain, which hurts. However, if the place has no factories, it could make sense...except that the resulting resistance will spread to nearby states. In practice, it tends to not be a useful law, though you could use it to empty your garrisons into a manpower pool if you need some RIGHT NOW, at non-trivial cost in the near future...

[@dirkalpha3895]

Can you do a video about tanks after the latest change please?

[@edwardrichtofen611]

I ALWAYS use civilian. Especially if I play Italy against the allies. Or the Soviets. The extra compliance gain plus the compliance gain from your national focus, lets keep you snipe shit of the allies, like colonies ^^

[@Strait_Raider]

What was the rationale behind Civilian Oversight being the old meta? I had always read that Harsh Quotas was the only useful occupation law for meta chasers with the exception of niche cases for forced labour because of compliance growth being so slow and wars being largely decided in the first couple of years.

[@zoroasper9759]

Because the garrison damage was never substantial enough to cause you any serious repercussions; you still get a lot of compliance on civilian oversight and that is extremely good in terms of factories and resources so it used to be worth it

[@Adriaticus]

If it's below 10% I use local police force and if it's above that then I use secret police.

[@Bruh-ff2tw]

Would you be able to make an updated Germany guide for BBA?

[@dashua1735]

I think you should make a video on the ideological occupation laws too. For example, Fascism has Brutal Oppression and Communism has Liberated Workers.

[@giahungnguyen6334]

I believe you can still use Civ Oversight if you have high collab, can’t it?

[@aidan7169]

Civ/Local-Autonomy is good once resistance bottoms out

[@alexmannen1991]

the meta is using harsh quotas on specific states with factories not the entire country. its great on netherlands and belgium that have 12+ its pointless in eastern poland with 2. i feel they made all the different laws more pointless now.

[@rottencheese1825]

Maybe you should invest in Eastern Poland then

[@al.bay24]

Will you continue making videos after a new dlc?

[@intell7919]

I like your videos and they will be better if you add some quiet music

[@subashchandra9557]

Hey cloak. I'm trying to calculate the exact number of days needed to research both the Fighter 3 and the Engine 3 such that they complete on the same day, or as close to that as possible, but plugging the Ahead of Time research numbers into the equation doesn't really make sense. I was wondering if you had any insight into this weird calculus going on.

[@panagiotisalexandrou4354]

Great video but how about local autonomy/liberated workers? How does it compare vs these results?

[@blahmaster6k]

Local autonomy will basically be the same as civilian oversight, but the losses and compliance will drop off/ramp up slightly faster. Most of the losses occur in the first year for both. In the short term they're practically the same but LA should be a bit ahead after 2 years. Liberated workers is just better local police force.

[@gegemuller]

Can you do fleet in being vs base strike again?

[@alexmannen1991]

whats the meta on how manu factories should a state have to use harsh quotas

[@tsawsum9351]

What about if I do a collaboration government and start with high compliance?

[@71Cloak]

Then you won't have much in the way of resistance will you. At that point maintaining compliance and having it grow will benefit you most which means you should pick civilian oversight or local police force.

[@unclemestor]

How does the Liberated Workers (Communist only) occupation policy fit into this?

[@firemochimc]

It's a good middle ground, I always use it.

[@TheKonkaman]

What about libarated workers law?

[@tsawsum9351]

What about liberated workers?

[@jaxkommish]

This channel is the Tumblr of Excel spreadsheets, and I am loving it

[@MrNicoJac]

Wait, cav or light tanks? Have armored cars been completely nerfed? (after sorta being introduced _just_ for occupation stuffs, lol)

[@haukionkannel]

Armored cars are good, but... You only use them to garrison. You need the development to make the armored car that would be more useful elsewhere and producing armored cars is not cheap. Cheaper than the light tanks I think. If you have infinite resources, infinite production and infinite development. The armored cars would be the best option.

[@CorpseFool]

@@haukionkannel With NSB, using the tank design shown in the video, there is absolutely no reason to be using armoured cars.

[@haukionkannel]

@@CorpseFool I think that armored cars still has advantage when dropping resistance? Small, but there is difference. And yeah. Considering you have to get armored car tech, you have to produce those armored cars. It does not make sense to make them. I did make those when playing italy, because they have entry level version ready in the beginning of the game. Not sure if it was good or bad idea.

[@SonofAlbion]

@@CorpseFool I wish the would just role it into the tank maker and stop AI Britain and Germany wasting some up IC and army XP on them

[@CorpseFool]

@@haukionkannel The tanks cost less and have more hardness than cars. Anything the car might do for your garrison, the tanks would do better.

[@timhand3380]

What? Did he say you can use different occupation laws in the same country?

[@chocola4426]

СПАСИБО БРО

[@Ecohoneybear]

Why no armored cars?

[@mapoitras]

Does it make a difference how many cavalry you have in the template. Does having 4 Cavalry reduce resistance faster than having just one?

[@71Cloak]

No. Without military police the size does not matter. With military police larger is more cost effective but that's it. The divisons themselves have no impact on resistance just the amount and type of equipment needed.

[@J1ffst3r]

Liberated workers FTW

[@yac7571]

noob question here guys: does "at war" mean at war in general or with that country?

[@kianvandenberg6364]

In general

[@MijnAfspeellijst1234]

how can we support the channel?

[@CatnamedMittens]

Lfg best hoi4 content.

[@PhilipposACosta]

How about local auntonomy?

[@aidan7169]

It's basically more extreme Civilian Oversight, so it'll probably do even worst here... That said, both laws are great if you're using it on a state with no resistance.

[@a.d.478]

Did you have enough equipment? In the australian state you were missing a lot

[@markus_gold]

01.01.1936, game was paused and guns were not distributed to garrison force

[@71Cloak]

I didn't start the test until February 1 which is more than enough time for stuff to reinforce the garrisons. I had 2 million guns.

[@CatnamedMittens]

How does a Prince of Terror effect these results?

[@aidan7169]

Due to the extra non-core manpower and lower garrison penetration, Local Police, Liberated Workers, Local Autonomy, and Civilian Oversight are theoretically a bit better.

[@xx_sogon_xx3037]

What about colonial police for Italy?

[@Mies78]

imo the best one.

[@boynistone690]

hey, is it worth to put additional machine guns on tanks?

[@71Cloak]

Sure extra soft attack for not much cost.

[@bretthuff8971]

Updated Germany guide?

[@71Cloak]

I honestly don't think it's necessary. You would only be making minor adjustments for air and mediums tanks being slightly later. Idk I'll think about it.

[@mimse6852]

What about liberated workers for communism

[@NotKnafo]

its funny how local police force require less man power but more ic and secret police is the opposite wouldnt it make more sense the other way around?

[@wannabeinfamous8690]

Using civilian oversight and local anatomy are still good idea when u have almost no resistance and some compliance during peacetime. Otherwise stick with local police force and secret police.

[@bretthuff8971]

I know it's not your normal schtick, but would you be able to make a HRE guide where you don't conquer everything while still fascist? The changes to Italy kind of sent the previous strategies out of the window.

[@gocool_2.0]

What is IC? Can someone tell me?

[@doggo422]

Industrial Cost. Every piece of equipment in hoi4 has a certain IC value that depends how hard it is to produce.

[@cc0767]

Industrial capacity, factories give a set amount modified by research etc. Equipment takes a set amount of IC to produce. Its a way to let the computer calculate the economy. You can see IC costs of divisions in the division designer.

[@SmashingCapital]

Whats ic

[@carter3329]

I know what B.C. means...

[@carter3329]

oh yea well do ya know what BBC means?

[@cc0767]

looks like classic Paradox balancing, everyone uses civilian oversight because people who want to paint the map cant be bothered? lets overnerf it.

[@carter3329]

Cool video BUT what is I.C.???? You should probably explain what I.C. stands for before using it in ur videos. That way people will know what your talkin about.

[@Aiphiae]

I absolutely hate this aspect of the game.

[@warrick1280]

Do you have a discord

[@chasemcclay1535]

You have a discord ?