Hold Conditioning: Gun Dog Delivery Without Forced Fetch

[@erikcihlar3144]

This channel is so underrated honestly why isn't it at 1m subs?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

We sure wish it did! We have always said our following isn't big, but it is deep. Thank you for the support Erik!

[@NWRefinishing]

Love how this guy pauses and explain things properly imma subscribe

[@CCOREY5]

Off topic..but the video quality, crispness, colors, light and shadows, and setting in a barn…is just beautiful! Like a Dutch Master painting!

[@chrisroyster784]

I have a older dog who has been force fetched and will pick ANYTHING up now, but my pup I have now i want to try the no e collar or force fetch route just to see and I will be using this method, good stuff.

[@crazyracer933]

Just watched this with my 18mo GSP. Very inspiring to see a GSP on the table and show the reality of patience it takes. Looking forward to starting our hold training now.

[@laurenhynes3572]

I just used this method on our LM who has not wanted to hold anything. We couldn't decide what method to go with, but this has been so amazing. I am so proud of her. She is holding all sorts of objects. Thank you so much!

[@breluedtke3810]

I guess I thought this was force fetching. Now I’ll need to go find more videos. Thank you for this. Full of good repetition for someone like me.

[@thatonedog819]

So did I?

[@Dealerschoicegifts]

THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT VIDEO, I HAVE A 6 MONTH OLD LAB THAT I AM DOING SOME OF THE BASIC WORK MYSELF AND AM STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT WITH THE HOLD AS HE IS A VERY SPUNKY FELLA..WATCHING THIS AND YOUR SET UP HAS BEEN FABULOUS, I AM GOING TO GET MY HUBBY TO HELP ME TRY TO REPLICATE THE CONCEPT FOR ME

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad it was helpful!

[@wildtrophyhunts300]

Finally, a great video with a great narrator. Excellent footage. Thank you for posting this video

[@Gunner662]

and excellent audio.

[@katanddawg]

I felt that miss, and I almost wanted you to call it and redirect, but she pulled it out. Loved that! Great work!

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thank you for the support!

[@Viewsonic61]

Fascinating video guys. Mesmeric at times. I’ve never seen this kind intense training to hold a retrieve before. Makes perfect sense to enable to move forward though. Thanks for posting.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@andrewsait3946]

I have a 7 month old Lab whom i have taken a different approach with by not getting on retrieving too early and have noticed from my previous labs his basic heel,sit and general focus is far better than i have achieved previously. I have recently given him a couple of Dummy ( sorry from the UK) or bumpers to retrieve and yes he spits them out!!This is by far the best process i have seen in correcting this issue and is explained brilliantly , know the 6 + weeks starts here !! thanks DBH . Dru from UK

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

I like initial SILENCE instead of background noise of "Hold,Hold,Hold,Hold,Hold". Silence allows the dog to figure out that not chomping results in release and praise. Background noise of "Hold,Hold,Hold,Hold,Hold" may teach pup to ignore the command or interpret "hold" as allowing chomping. Later "hold" only once, "drop" only once at key instants in time. In general repeating commands erode the impact of commands to background noise.

[@lynneann9166]

This was so good. Finally got hold conditioning and my dog is responding to your method. I don't train my dog with treats either. Thank you.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

thank you for the support and let us know if we can help in any way!

[@chadlefevere8647]

I like what you’re doing. Don’t know why it took me so long to find this.

[@petersimon3066]

I like your style of getting the right result.

[@ryanmichaelhunt]

such a great video - truly so much value here. By far the best video I've seen on this concept that is so vital for your dog.

[@adriennel.9050]

Yes, it should be fun for the dogs. Truly obsessive, high-drive retrievers don't require shock collars to fetch anything you throw. If they're properly introduced to retrieving early on, the behavior becomes self-reinforcing pretty quickly. If I have to FORCE a young dog into retrieving, or into obedience, instead of relying on his innate drive + positive reinforcement, doesn't that mean he's a less naturally gifted dog than the one who doesn't require compulsion? Thanks for the useful tips.

[@ralphmiller9503]

That number two dog is awesome

[@DeniseAtkinsonSteffe]

Nice video. Approach is so different from the force fetch methods of toe pinch or ear pull.

[@SpanielshuntingtrialingNZ]

A very good teaching video, i enjoyed not just the technique but your understanding of each dogs temperament. You have a new subscriber..

[@jeffdillon870]

Hutch is a good lookin dog! Similarly, I have a high energy brittany and will be working on this method with him now that he is 14 months. And seeing you work with something other than a lab was very inspring.

[@DrDaleHubbardPhD]

Use positive reinforcement for correct behaviors !

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I think it’s always finding a balance between pressure and praise. Thanks for taking the time to watch out vids. 👍🏼

[@DrDannyLopezz]

I am going to start this on my Brittany. He is 8 1/2 months and retrieving pretty good but does not retrieve to hand. He is not a "retriever" naturally but he loves to fetch and bring it back. Thank You for this video. NEW SUBSCRIBER

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thanks for the support and let us know if we can help in any way. This process is designed to clean up the retrieve, which it sounds like you are looking for. Be patient and don't rush!

[@ELLISRUGER8]

I did this with a two year old lab and she has never looked back since. I also followed on by doing it with 7mnth old pup. For both dogs it only took about 5 sessions (food was used for reward). With steadiness a very good stay and a very god recall it created a simple path forward. I walk the bitches to heel with the dummy held until requested. Its a game changer, it means the presentation is perfect when combined with a good recall etc. Moving forward I will always always get the foundation work of recall and stay sorted to a high standard and then incorporate hold conditioning before I worry about presentation on return. Thank you Dogbonehunter great video. I dont know much about force fetch and never want to. The older bitch was jumping on to the table herself after two sessions :)

[@danielvaldez9826]

Your videos and techniques are the BEST! I used the Dog Bone: Puppy Training, First Things First, and has helped me and my standard Poodle soo much!! She is retrieving pretty good (@ just shy of 7months) because of you and this Hold Training has helped us take a huge step forward!! I am inspired by your handling mannerisms and attitude is exactly what my personality and Poodle's temperament need. Thank you very much!!!! The Bella Be Good series is Great too!

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Daniel, thank you so much for your support, and please let us know if we can help in any way! -Jeremy

[@dogstar8871]

I have pointing dogs - field trial / hunt test dogs - we do hunt for training - never want them sitting - will see how this works without the dog sitting

[@TheSleepyHunter]

Thank you for showing this process in such detail!

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mikehelm8030]

Great video. Starting this process tomorrow with my 14 month old Drahthaar.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Let us know if we can help in any way!

[@mikehelm8030]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore Delayed update, but here you go. I followed the direction in this video to the T! In 6 weeks only missed one day and cut one session short because I wasn't being patient. My dog is extremely stubborn and she's the first bird dog I've had. So we're learning together. It took her around 1 week to tolerate it, 4 to 5 weeks to willingly hold, and 6 to 7 weeks to fully comply. Even after that it is a work in process, but she is so much better than she was. She will hold anything I give her and is 95% proficient at her holds. We practice nightly on our walks/training sessions. Great instruction! So glad I found this video. The premise of this video to get your dog to want to hold rather than have to out of fear of a thumping is right up my alley. Keep up the good work.

[@waynethebarber1095]

A very nice video, and you are a very good trainer. You are so calm and easy-going. You work the dogs so well. I will be getting my third lab soon. And I want to train this one more then my last ones. I like the hunting skills just to work my dog. Watching you work I am getting so stoked to train my new dog. When you were holding there head up, I felt my head lifting up too.... I will be watching all I can of your videos. Thank you for teaching us how to train our dogs. If we don't know how to train, we can never train our dogs. Thank you again....

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thank you for the support!

[@ScottHillOutdoors]

Glad I found your video ..... Starting hold conditioning on my 11 month old CBR

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad to hear Scott, let us know if we can help in any way

[@amysfishingadventuresforki6300]

Super stuff I have a puppy on the way look forward when she gets to the age to train her like the way you do 👍👍

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Let us know if we can help in any way!

[@jpaleblue]

I'm watching again.

[@watermaine]

I sometimes like to see what is out there on dog training videos. Now, I am just a regular backwoods hunter, not a fancy dog trainer. I have to say, this is what I have been doing for the past 40+ years with all my Chessie's, and you are so right on this. I always thought this is the norm for teaching dogs to retrieve and hold game, until, that is, when that "FORCED FETCH" craze started. I will not stoop to that nonsense, it is the lazy way as far as I am concerned. I start from the first time I throw a sock to the pup. Understanding and getting the dog to enjoy the retrieve always work better. And doing it this way, you can teach the dog to hold the bird without chomping it so hard that the dog is chewing it to pieces. This is the first Video I have seen that I really like and agree with on this subject.

[@michigangundogoutdoors9234]

Also a proud Chessie owner don’t think I’ll ever own another breed

[@randystern7870]

You are my new best friend!! Hahahhaa. I feel alone on another planet with ff being SOP in the USA. It is nothing more than instant gratification in the USA. Just that.

[@Jsebs]

Nice approach, I love it. Thanks for Sharing... I'm right in it with my 7 m.o Lab and it's going smoothly!

[@colbymcghee9693]

I’m glad to find someone with old school training every dog is different but you fill in a lot of questions I might have

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thank you for the support Colby and let us know if we can help in any way

[@michigangundogoutdoors9234]

Thank you for your knowledge my pups been doin great got her the same time you started Bella be good series it’s helped in so meny ways keep filming we’re watching

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

thanks for the support!

[@taylorbrogan9927]

So glad I found this video! I have been using treats as a reward but I quickly realised that he was spitting the item quickly anticipating a treat. Feeling hopeful now to try this.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thank you for your support Taylor and best of luck in your training!

[@pattymcewen6215]

Great information, thank you. How does reinforcing the hold command help with blinking on birds in the field?

[@gillawty6439]

My dog will hold the dummy no problem but she ducks her head when I go to take it. She has resistance. The retrieve item is everything. She's just three and it started happening at about 13 months and I've tried different things recommended to me. The frustration is when I see the videos that I have of her delivering during her first year She was happy with her head up.

[@christopherrobinson972]

Good work

[@nicklausmisiti5204]

Great video. Im on day 4 with my draathar of this and your videos have been very helpful. One issue im having is my dog is holding the dowel but very softly, like he almost just balancing it on his lower jaw. If I go to grab it without giving the release command I can just slide it around in his mouth.

[@riccicasadecalvo2473]

Thanks for posting! Such a great video and is easy to follow on what to do and what not to do. Thanks for sharing!

[@jockconyngham5487]

Thank you for a very substantive video. I learned a great deal and appreciate the different techniques for different dogs. My question: how does your DVD/download on hold conditioning differ?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

It is one and the same

[@jesuspaz3133]

Very good video. I'm learning the right way. Thank you very much keep up the good work

[@ralphmiller9503]

You’re an awesome trainer!’n

[@jrjohnson9965]

Learned alot watching your videos. Thank you

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad to hear it!

[@mikeminnick30]

Great video!

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@frankcambra1727]

Best Force Fetch I have ever seen in 50 years! Good Night Walters....... Good Night CRTA and your bleeding ears trash! Excellent! Please give me more instruction. Whining? Hand signals??

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Pleaase feel free to check out the rest of our page, we have done a series on teaching handling called Cody Go Back. This series is located under the playlists tab of our page. We also do a number of different series and videos that you may find valuable. Thanks for the support, we realize there are lots of ways to train dogs. Our hope is to give people the information to do it without using what we feel is unnecessary force, such as collars and force fetch.

[@chrisranyner4890]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore in future series could you title each video with the main idea to differentiate each video of a series. It helps in search later on. Love all your stuff. Just finishing up hold conditioning.

[@JordanSmith-fg6if]

What if there was a way to make the process of holding an item seem like it was the dogs idea, making it all an extremely positive association?

[@MrGcantrell]

I failed to teach this to my 18 month old lab and I can attest to it WILL come back to haunt you. He likes to grab the edge of the bumper or throw rope and sling it around and when I throw multiple bumpers he'll run to one, either leave it there or pick it up and go to the next one. DO NOT SKIP

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Don't think it's too late, you still can do it, but now you have habits that you will have to reverse. Let us know if we can reach out in any way!

[@MrGcantrell]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore thanks, yes were working on it now he's making great progress! this off season we'll be working on hold conditioning, casting and blood tracking

[@mqauggies]

Great Video....I am starting to do this with my 9 month old lab but she won't willingly accept the dumbbell. She holds it decently when I do get it in there but I have to open the mouth for her to take it. How do I correct that?

[@jbender1024]

Great stuff!!

[@scottieweaver63]

While you were talking it seems she was trying to get to the dowel. If they are lunging before you’re ready to give it to them, do you go ahead and give it or do you reset them until you’re ready to give it

[@nabeelalqsous5725]

Phenomenal video!! Thank you so much

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thank you for the support!

[@matiaswilliamcosta7207]

i usually start with my thumb ,so they learn to apply the right pressure and then move to dummies and so on. I don’t want the dog to hold its retrieve too tight.

[@infinger2006]

5:00 - smart little girl nosing the leash off the hook..

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Yes she was!

[@ian-pm3xk]

Wow this is such a great video! So my 3 year old golden has always been a bit mouthy, but now I’m noticing her getting worse and really “chomping” on bumpers and dokken dummies. I want to put a stop to this before next season. I always avoided force fetch because she is a very soft dog and it just seems too harsh. We will be starting hold conditioning tomorrow morning with all this extra time we have on our hands now. Any tips on how to keep her from chomping the dowel rod/bumper? She has always sort of chomped a bumper as she runs back on a retrieve, but it does seem to be getting worse. Will this just dissolve as we continue with proper hold conditioning? Any tips to help with this chomping would be appreciated.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Yes, hold conditioning will help to remedy that issue. By following the process from start to finish you will see the change, provided you're consistent. Step 1 will be elevating the dog, which takes away some of their confidence and freedom, and at the same time will typically allow for them to better focus on the task at hand. At that point is when the mouthing or chomping haas to stop 100%. Going forward with each step, there must be zero tolerance for that behavior. if you are consistent with this, after many repetitions that becomes the new norm or habit.

[@craigwebb1207]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore Sorry to message an old comment. I'm hoping your still active on KZbin. If the dog starts chomping, what do you do? Ask for the dog to release it with the command (we also use dead) ? Or something else.

[@roomofzen]

Thanks much for this video - do you have any tips/videos on how to transition back to the Retrieve once you have completed the Hold Conditioning Process? If you had a dog that was spitting and taking laps BEFORE Hold Conditioning process, how do you re-introduce the retrieve once Hold Conditioning is solid? Thanks!

[@robertheinzelman9212]

Im about to give up and get rid of my dog. Its become frustrating ,he wont take the dowel,he wont sit and stay,he wont recall consistently He seems uninterested , no bond , no eye contact or very rare, always avoiding me doing victory laps..Im at the end. If i could afford to send him away for training he would have been at a trainers a month ago. I feel ive failed and that maybe this dog is just a dud as well. 7 month old chessie. If anyone can help me before i give him away i would appreciate it

[@freshmojito]

Very helpful, thanks for recording this! Not touching the top of the head is so obvious, but I've never thought about it before. I realize reinforcing with treats likely leads to spitting out, but: does it make sense for a dog to do certain exercises with treats, others with alternative rewards? Would he understand that the rewards have the same value? Or do I have to completely take the non-treats route?

[@deputyphotography]

My dog does when on when retrieving birds spits out do all above and will hold

[@lordzlomek]

Awesome video. I've got one question - what's a good age to start hold conditioning and how would you start off with a puppy to condition the early and wake up their inner retrieving drive? I guess putting a puppy on a table would be a bit too much pressure for them? How would you encourage puppy to take & hold things?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

We actually did a podcast on just this question that should give you a more in depth idea of when to start hold conditioning with your dog. I'm attatching a link below... hope it helps! dogbonehunter.com/podcast/37/when-should-i-start-hold-conditioning-ep-101

[@genner-vincenthodgson5177]

I didn't realize that I was doing this, but with my cats for different reasons. Not teaching them to hold stuff, but teaching them to read my tone and posture and emotions. I've always loved cats, they were extremely easy to understand and relate to, but it's only now that I'm an adult that I can teach them to not be anxious, to read the room and understand what's happening by following my lead, and to trust the right animals and people to approach. All by eye contact and context clues. They don't even need voice commands, though of course verbal reassurance helps get the point across better. Raising kittens by myself and constantly employing these methods has given great results. To me great results means they are the happiest cats I can help them to be, condiment but curious and a safe amount of caution. Didn't hurt that their mother was naturally a cuddle bug. Just by emotionally being clear with them and putting all my emotion in my eyes they thrive with understanding and love. I'm not at all looking to train a hunting dog, but I am looking to help an Australian shepherd puppy adjust to suburban life with a visually impaired owner after being with a not so well adjusted family. So I thought I'd study up on dog psychology and body language, I'm delighted to know that most animals(especially common pets) read emotions very well as long as you show them with a purpose. I'm thinking of having her help me with household chores like picking up sticks and putting them in the fire pit or helping me find something when I drop it so retrieve and hold would be great skills for her to learn. Now I just need to learn more about dog body language, and a whole bunch of other stuff lol

[@marccharron5138]

What kind of leash is that and where to buy

[@cjmooney3641]

Thanks for sharing your methods! I am training a 6 month old lab retriever who retrieves objects (bumpers, big and small canvas dummies, wooden dowels, bird dummies) to hand with near perfection. She already pheasant hunts and points birds in the field incredibly well, but I can't get her to retrieve an actual dead bird (shot or thrown). She just sits there and chews on the bird. Even if I take a dead bird and throw it in a retrieving session setting, she still cant connect the bird with a object she needs to retrieve. Any advice for transitioning retrieving objects to retrieving dead/wounded birds?

[@Woodywoodzzz]

Tape wings to a bumper.

[@chuckpugsley759]

@@Woodywoodzzz go to water retrieves with small softer bumper, not canvas but soft knobby. start with short toss like 5-6 ft from bank, dont make her heal or sit, this needs to start as fun bumpers. quick teasing moves in hand then toss very close, make a game of it. then back up as she is getting out of water to make her chase you to give you the bumper. good luck!

[@clarkeboyd372]

What would you say about a dog that will hold a canvas dummy or a bumper or even a bumper with duck wings taped onto it but won’t hold a real dead duck? If you put a dead bird in her mouth she resists heavily and then spits it out as soon as you let go of it.

[@kritikamalrava1]

❤️❤️ thanks

[@andrewpenrose7538]

What age do you start most your dogs at with hold conditioning? I have a golden retriever that has been doing good with his basic retrieves with some occasional drops at my feet. He is currently 6 months and a couple weeks old. Thanks!

[@gusbuster8068]

How long did it take to get the gsp better at hold? My almost 3 year old GWP is mouthy and drives me nuts!

[@DrDaleHubbardPhD]

Where is the reinforcement for correct behaviors?

[@Manuelgarcia-lo7tu]

Can I train a catahoula dog to search for deer sheds or can you just train a labrador retriever?

[@habibullakhan584]

Good Good Good

[@bsherfey20]

What if the dog doesn’t want to take it or continuously tries to spit it out?

[@samanthamiller9701]

how do you correct chomping?

[@haydinnino1926]

Problem I have with my pup is he drops the dummy a few feet away from me every time on a retrieve or does a victory lap and lays down to play with it. Seems like hold conditioning would be a great fix, only he’s pushing 4 years old. Is it too late?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Hey Haydin, sorry for the delayed response. It seems I missed your comment some how. To answer your question, no 4 years is not too late. As long as the dog has a baseline understanding of the game of retrieve, this process is meant to clean up the delivery which it sounds like is something you are struggling with. Let us know if we can help in any other way!

[@jamiesonpetroski8545]

My dog acts as if it's a punishment and isn't excited about it no matter what

[@whysoserious86]

Why not work on the force fetch and the hold at the same time?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I don't use force fetch, instead I use this kind of hold conditioning. I end up with very good results without needing to use the force fetch methods.

[@whysoserious86]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore I figured that out as I watched more of the video lol. This is an interesting method. I've only known forcing.

[@timadler7195]

Where can I get a training tab like you are using in the video? I'm not have much luck searching online.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

You really don't need anything special, just a short strap tied into a hitch will work as long as you can get it off.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Otherwise, I believe gun dog supply has them here: www.gundogsupply.com/search2.html?query=steady+tab

[@clayturpin2558]

So I have a question. My dog won’t even take it for more than about 2 seconds. Not sure what to do

[@fredboswell3016]

Do you throw retrieves during this training or wait like FF until dog is fully Hold Conditioned?

[@chasehamm4467]

At what point do you move from the dowel to the bumper etc? And when do you think about the dog moving from the table to the ground? Is it when they hold confidentially for a full min or something else you're looking for?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

There is zero influence on the process measured by time or number of repetitions. Instead, its when you feel the dog is ready you take a step forward, which the dog will show you. The purpose of the dowel is to avoid a negative connection to this process when starting out. A-lot of times, dogs won't necessarily like this process when starting out, the dowel is used to ensure that if there is a negative connection, it's not with something I want them to like and retrieve Ie. the dummy. Once we get past that and I know there is no risk of a negative connection from the dog, we can begin to switch objects as much as we want. Prior to moving on the ground, I have the dog move on the table. Prior to moving the dog on the table with a dummy in its mouth I have him move on the table without the dummy in its mouth. Same goes for on the ground. Instead of taking large steps and having an issue, take smaller incremental steps so the dog does not have an issue, and back up if he/she does.

[@howitzeroutdoors]

What if my dog always tries to spit it out. Or won't even allow it to be placed into her mouth? Should I attempt to excite her a bit to get it in?

[@AikawaMartialArts]

Just incase some millennial watches this🤣🤣..... never walk away from the table with the dog tied.

[@brockroy2000]

Would you recommend doing this before any bumper retrieve work?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

No, I always try to develop as much good early retrieve as possible. If I do a good job with it, hold conditioning is a very easy process. “Hold” helps get through a lot of potential issues that we can run into with a retriever.

[@kylaconner2359]

My 15yo son just got his 1st hunting dog. It’s a GSP. Can this be used with him as well? Being he isn’t a retriever breed.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Yes it can!

[@martynvenner1134]

Hi there, I’ve been doing hold conditioning for a couple of weeks and I have made huge progress, I have to prize open his mouth before my dog with hold it but he is holding it well now when sitting. The problem comes when I get him to walk, he spits it out immediately. Do you have any tips on how to overcome this please.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Take steps back, don't rush. At any point in this process if you run into issues the answer is to take steps back. Put the dog back up on the freezer, the dog will tell you when he/she is ready for the next steps

[@Wrath__-mz1lu]

@DogBoneHunter my dog want willingly grab the dowel how do I fix that?

[@anthonypixley5123]

I have a 14 month old chocolate lab, and He is a retrieving machine. Only issue is that he likes to crush bumpers and I’m getting him into hunting so I’m worried he will destroy a bird. Do you have any suggestions? I have done some force fetch and he is doing great for his first week and reason I started it was to stop the crushing issue. Thanks in advance

[@chadguerin3586]

Where do you get the dog training DVD at?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Hi Chad, we offer a series of training DVDs on our website at www.dogbonehunter.com/dvds/ Let us know if we can help in any way!

[@dobermaninthewoods3060]

Can a doberman do this?

[@andrewschuller5588]

Is it okay to still practice retrieves while hold conditioning?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

No, while in the process of hold conditioning we stop retrieving completely until we are through the process.

[@mattnordahl1700]

How long is a table session and how many sessions a day?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I don't measure anything in time. The length of a session is based on how the session goes. Some are as short as a couple of minutes, some are ten to twenty. Number of sessions a day are not as important as a level of consistency in general. I have done two sessions a day in the past, some dogs can handle it, some dogs it seems to be too much. Its all in reading your dog.

[@albertski28]

What do you do if he will not bite down on the broom handle? Or he wants to chew on it.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I firm up and help him understand to simply hold it. I don’t want him biting down on anything.

[@scotthovelsrud5293]

Been working with my 6 1/2 month lab for almost 3 weeks. He hasn’t held the dowel steady in his mouth for 1 second. Chomps and chomps. Never bites down hard but just moves it around. Never holds it long enough for me to count to one. I’ve looked for any kind of similar situation for help but just stumped. I started this training because the dog was putting his head down on delivery and wouldn’t hand me the bumper. Really frustrating!

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Firm up. Sounds like the dogs doing what it wants. He’s winning every time and leaves you frustrated. Likely the dog has no idea what you want. Firm up and get a change in behavior so you can tell him he’s good. You’ll be surprised how quickly to do it right when they know what it is you want from them.

[@scotthovelsrud5293]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore firmer with my voice is easy as I’ve been at 50% firm. Do I hold the dowel in his mouth by clamping onto his jaws and making him hold it until he does it himself? Or do just keep positioning it in his mouth and not let up until he holds it without chomping?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

@@scotthovelsrud5293 you will have to try and see how the dog responds. I train by the rule that I firm up until I get the desired change in behavior. From there my goals are to replicate the behavior over time with less and less pressure until the behavior is there without pressure necessary. You also have to remember that when the dogs does it, you have to let them know with praise. I don’t look for perfect, I look for improvements and let the dog know accordingly.

[@scotthovelsrud5293]

@@DogBoneJeremyMoore Success!!!!! A couple of firm “No’s” (firm but not Attila the Hun level) and Tell stopped chomping and very lightly held it still in his mouth. Did it twice to make sure it wasn’t an accident and got outa Dodge with lots of praise. Thank you so much for training me what to do. I think Tell knew all along he just needed an owner to figure it out!

[@g21rett]

How do you correct a dog that is chomping?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Firm up with both tone and if necessary, underside of the chin. That becomes 100% the focus of that session, and every session going forward until you get over it.

[@mattnordahl1700]

One of my english cockers keeps her eyes closed when dowel is in her mouth. I'm guessing that means she wishes she was somewhere else. your thoughts?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Hard to say, I have dogs that close their eyes when they are extremely comfortable, almost like they are in a zen like state of mind. Without seeing it, I won't be able to tell you exactly.

[@fireguy7004]

Have watched a few of your videos. Nice work. Very calm and consistent. But a couple of points to consider. "Retriever" is a job title, it is not a genetic trait. If "Retrievers" retrieved naturally, there would be no need for this video. What you are doing is "teaching" "hold", a primary component of retrieving. What retrievers do naturally is go get something they saw thrown or fall. It is not natural for them to bring what they get to you. If they did, again, no need for this video or your training. Second, while "hold" is essential, it does not replace "Fetch". Fetch means go get what I tell you. Its a movement command we use transfer to sending the dog on blinds. There are many benefits to "Force fetch" beyond just picking up and holding a bird. Third, Pressure or fear. When you press the dogs lip against his gum, to get him to let go, thats pressure, it causes apprehension/fear.When you grab the muzzle with both hands to keep the buck in the dogs mouth, thats pressure. Doesnt need to cause pain to cause apprehension. "hold" should not take 6 weeks. Taking so long on hold reduces time spent on higher skills. I would suggest you watch "Tri tronics Trained retrieve" for "hold". Its on KZbin. I get you don't want to use an ecollar, but there are some things I think you could adapt to your program to move along a bit faster. I get you are catering to those that oppose collars and traditional FF. I wouldn't FF a dog today with the methods I learned 30 years ago. But I would not, not, FF a dog.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

Thanks for taking the time to watch and respond. I appreciate and respect your comments and there is a lot there so I will do my best to respond to each point made. I disagree a bit with your idea that "retrieve" is not a genetic trait. Much like pointers point, I find that retrievers, retrieve. I don't train them to do that, they have it in them. I've yet to see one bred for the field that didn't which is a testament to genetic traits. I agree that delivery is not something that they all have in them, which is where hold comes into play and has value. When it comes to shooting dogs, over time we have determined what is appealing to us as hunters. A sound, reliable delivery to hand for most is a very important part of meeting our expectations in a "retriever". I look at this as polishing and shaping what they do naturally to meet my needs as the handler. To summarize, I don't train retrievers to retrieve, I do train them to deliver in a desirable way. To your second point. Whether you use a verbal command to "fetch" specifically or as I choose to do, simply line and send the dog on their name...both are achieving the same result which is the dog going to pick something up. Where I differ in my approach is I don't connect any kind of negative pressure in order to achieve that result. I don't marry up the physical pressure and pain to the verbal cue. I see what it does with dogs as far as them lunging for dummies or objects on command, but I don't have a need for my dogs to impulsively pick things up in order to escape pain or fear. In my experience and in my personal opinion, I think that approach breaks down trust and can create some attitude from the dog that erodes our connection. I am looking to grow and build trust and confidence with my dogs throughout training and I don't get that using ear pinches, toe hitches and shock collar stimulation. To your third point, I don't claim to, or recommend using zero pressure. I very much agree that training takes place using pressure and praise in a timely fashion in order for the dog to understand what we are looking for them to do. I don't have a need to use pressure commonly connected to force fetching. I also think that the level of pressure is variable and my goals are to use the least amount of pressure necessary to create the desired change. I find that I don't need to use those earlier referenced force fetch methods in order to get desired results. As far as time goes...I am in no position to tell you how long something should take you when training your dog, much like you are in no position to tell me, or anyone else for that matter what the timeline should look like. I dont' base or measure the raising of a dog on time. I train my own dogs and my clients dogs and I take as long as it takes prior to moving forward. Sometimes, we move backwards as well when needed. In the end, I can say with a lot of confidence that the dogs I work with are well prepared for both the field and home. I appreciate your recommendation, but I'm real comfortable with the pace I move along with a dog. In fact, I enjoy the process of raising them and have no desire to speed it up or get through it any faster. In fact, over the last several years, I have found that I am moving the other direction and actually taking longer with each dog I work with. It's quite refreshing and enjoyable not caring what other think or say about how fast or slow I move along in training. I really don't have a program, instead I train each pup individually and accordingly. Lastly, my hopes and intentions are not to cater to any specific group. I watch and learn from many different trainers, some of them use collars and force fetch, some don't. My takeaways are sometimes things that I like and work well for me, other times my takeaway is a clearer understanding of what I do not, and will not do. I am not looking to change the mind of those that use shock collars or force fetch and I don't hold anything against those that do use them responsibly. I personally don't have the need or desire to. My hope is to share that with others that feel the same way and are unsure on how they are going to approach their training plan. I agree, a lot has changed in retriever training over the last 30 years and you clearly know and understand that. I'm glad that you and many others don't still do things the way they once were. Thank you for taking the time to watch the video and share your thoughts. I don't pretend to think or believe that everyone should train exactly this way. My hopes are just to share what works well for me. Stay safe, healthy and positive. Best of luck in your training and God Bless.

[@srmartin109]

After teaching hold, do you incorporate a fetch command?

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I don't build in any kind of formal "fetch" command, as I have never had an issue with a dog not picking up. Retrievers retrieve, and it's very inherent and natural to them. It's the delivery that I see a need for polishing. I know that the force fetch process uses a fetch command as part of what they are trying to achieve. The issue I have, and reason I don't use forced fetch is because I don't have a need for what I consider to be unnecessary pressure put on the dog in order to have them do what I think should be 100 percent positive and willing on the dog's part. I know a lot of people see, talk about, and believe in the force fetch process, and that's fine if it works for them, I just don't find it necessary at all. In my opinion, the force fetch process is just too much pressure, and I don't want a dog responding to me out of fear and avoidance, and I don't want to be connected to putting that kind of pain on a dog. My goal is always to build the relationship as strong as possible based on trust and respect. Using this method has seemed to work the best for me over the years.

[@DogBoneJeremyMoore]

I certainly don't discourage the idea of the dog wanting to pick something up or take something from me when it comes to this process, I just don't encourage or promote the idea of them impulsively snatching an object.