Hollywood Animators Try to Save Their Jobs...

[@sebastiantrias1529]

My advice for these animators is to abandon Hollywood, and try create your own Indy projects.

[@EldritchErik94]

Some of those animators will fail, because they are not talented.

[@bradleyharris774]

They can try and most of them will fail miserably because they lack the skill and talent needed to make a product people would actually enjoy.

[@KaeMcSpadden]

Or working remotely so then they don’t have to move.

[@CircuitReborn]

​​@@bradleyharris774 thats why they need to do what Hollywood or Disney did...gather a large group of people to make a studio. Don't try to solo it with a small team. If you can, bring in some people a big industry fired for not sharing their world view. Thats how Dreamworks started. Spite.😂 Also,do start your studio in California. Maybe a state with potential to grow instead.

[@aarons6907]

​@@EldritchErik94then they fail and it is a good thing.

[@ItBeHowItBe47]

To be fair. It doesn’t seem like Hollywood really understands human emotion right now either

[@Cubeytheawesome]

I agree. I felt nothing watching Inside out 2. They could have tackled something that is an actual problem, like teen depression, but instead it’s just someone hanging out with new friends. Also why did they scrap Shame?

[@Poptart_Prime]

@@Cubeytheawesome Because they have no shame

[@marryodina]

​@@Poptart_Primegood point

[@Clint52279]

I got a few chuckles, however, at about the 20 minute mark the anthropomorphized emotion schtick went stale. My 14 year old daughter loved it, though, and I had a good evening being with her.

[@ASoberBear]

I cant believe we went from Treasure Planet, Prince of Egypt, Anastasia, Atlantis & Lilo and Stitch to activist branches we have now. I do not recognize the land I grew up in and all we get is disdain from creators while protecting PDF files & bully activists. They deserve everything they are getting.

[@Fenrir72]

Those woketurds were always imbedded! Linda Wolverton something something. Look her up!

[@MrKlausHeisler]

Yep & agree! They should have stayed out of Woke & Left politics propaganda.

[@dogg-paws]

That's a peculiar set of movies you picked... I would've gone further back to the early-mid 90s for my set of examples.

[@Slitheringpeanut]

Have you been under a rock??? Did you now know of Adventure Time's viral infection of the industry?

[@dogg-paws]

@@Slitheringpeanut That doesn't take anything away from his point. In fact, it strengthens it.

[@googleisevil8958]

The issue always was Hollywood, not animators. Animators for years thought if they made it to Hollywood, they were set for life but never realized that Hollywood is just a place. The future should not be written by Hollywood but by indie animators and their fans. The internet offers limitless protentional for success. We don't need Hollywood.

[@ChiefGore429]

Who's a good indie animator?

[@mrconroy4672]

The problems are going to be more realized as time goes on. Investment firms aren’t going to leave them alone. The people writing the scripts need to take bigger risks lest they fall out of favor.

[@gamerboiiiiiii]

​@@ChiefGore429by skill, or holy christian uwu mc animated content?

[@RokuroCarisu]

Anything that seems "limitless" is an illusion. To see the limits of the internet, you only need to look at who owns the platforms and who writes the algorithms. Your potential for success is in their hands.

[@ChiefGore429]

@@gamerboiiiiiii Any

[@RagingGoldenEagle]

It'll be just like the film actor's guild. They'll get their demands met, and the 1/3 of them still employed in a year are gonna love it!

[@RakieemF]

Yup

[@coreywong6229]

We call that forced natural selection. Yeah it sucks and I hate to say that.

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

A third seams very hopeful honestly. There is going to just be a ton of layoffs if things keep up the way they're going. I don't honestly know who's going to be safe except probably people who have been in the industry forever and or nepotism etc. It's gonna be a straight-up bloodbath.

[@efraimgarcia7876]

It's always the way these strikes seem to go. The ones going back to work get better conditions at the expense of leaving many, many others without work to go back to.

[@moglet12345]

Except that no one will get hired and AI will do their jobs, which is honestly well deserved

[@0Demonheart]

Animators in California would have better luck trying to form their own little studios and making animations for whoever is willing to pay them or make their own original content and try to be successful. Also they should consider getting another job to pay the bills because animation will not make enough money.

[@BlueBD]

They would have better luck leaving california. The pay would not be such an issue if they dont live in a place where you need extremely high levels of pay just to afford a 1bdr studio

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@BlueBDalso us Midwest artists need some love!

[@linusgustafsson2629]

I think the issue is that everyone wants a stable income. So unless someone is paying the indie team while they work, it won't really be what people want. Even if the animation gets really profitable afterwards, what is important for most people is stability in the present.

[@0Demonheart]

@@linusgustafsson2629 The problem with the film industry and animation industry is that these industries are usually only profitable after the project is finished. Which means many of these studios and companies have a rough time getting started while preexisting studios and companies already dominate the industry and have the money to make quality content. While new start ups and indie creators have to take chances and animating or making films is expensive so it basically requires a second or third job especially in California. Crowdfunding and things like patreon are basically how many passion projects are being made and I believe content that gets crowdfunding is a testament to how much people want to see that content. Meanwhile these existing studios have steered away from taking risks or creating new and original content and instead they just want to line investors and CEOs pockets.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@linusgustafsson2629 that makes sense. I’m pretty sure most animators would have no problem doing their stuff without major corporations keeping them on a leash if they didn’t have to worry about rent and insurance.

[@gloriathomas3245]

I personally known people who works in animation and have been asked to relocate to Spain, France or Singapore to maintain their jobs. And yes much of the animation jobs these days are done in France or Spain, case production for the Mario Bros movie was largely done in France.

[@Exlayer-pk8hy]

I would rather quit all together than be forced to move to france lmao

[@thegiftedfire3470]

The outsourcing issue is really bad

[@andersbodin1551]

France is a nice place

[@Tallacus]

Well Illumination Pictures has always been a Parisian studio so...

[@buda3d2007]

@@andersbodin1551 if you live out in the country sure, any city ill skip. Paris is unlivable unless you live in a palace, but even then maybe not as much.

[@masonr1666]

The truth is, it is getting harder and harder to have a home [housing], let alone a table, and food to put on that table. If people don't have money, they can not put money in things that are not the necessities. How does someone earn an income, if all the jobs have gone overseas, or have been eliminated through technology?

[@halafradrimx]

And switching to an UBI system will just make inflation worse.

[@matthewsmith2362]

I think that exactly the hr point The bankers that run this globe and certainly the west are intentionally squeezing the middle and lower class. People need to understand their way of life is what’s at stake. We are going to see a real life decline in our standard of living. In a few more years auto insurance will be 500$ a month minimum A million for a starter house in the US. So on and so on

[@yrevra2407]

The struggling middle class really is truly a problem that goes hand in hand, CEO's have to stop using 'inflation' as a shield to stay rich and for the future lower costs to keep the middle class healthy. While creatives, need to kind of fall back on a combination of using local galleries, connections, and online Independent Projects. Honestly, we could be seeing fresh ground so to speak for the next 'Walt Disney' to emerge, but first it's going to be a bit of a Dark Ages scenario at least for the Art Market. Now may be the best time to write-create a 'personal project' to later expose and share, and make profit off of.

[@HenriFaust]

Why not use tools instead of giving up on learning new things? Nothing signifies the death of creativity like rejecting innovation.

[@Dayz3O6]

most them are woke thus not selling , also they vote for these liberal policy that lead to inflation

[@Meleena2218]

it's a sad state of affairs. I graduated from my animation program in 2020 and then went right into my video game animation and development program and graduated in 2022 and haven't had any luck. It's even more disheartening when I ran into my old prof (she has been in the industry for years and her work is amazing) and she is having no luck getting a job either. It's very bleak. The industry will--and should--collapse. The monopoly the giants have on it is too much and its toppling over. I have hope that it will lead into a new age for the industry, even if its just small like indie studios for a while. it will definitely be a dark age for a bit.

[@mr.goodboi2780]

I agree with this. It's going to implode, and that's okay. Empires fall, but new ones are built. Hollywood's downfall was all trying to be Netflix and telling the audience to go fuck themselves quality be damned. And so they did. A lot of great work and artists got burned in that, which sucks. Time to start over. They will be teaching this in business and economic textbooks years from now showing how the Industry imploded due to chasing trends. Disney, Universal, Paramount, Warner, etc could have carved their own niche, but they couldn't see beyond the horizon, and the artists also did not create their own unique works, whether due to corporate politics or grander politics. A match made in hell. Sad.

[@marryodina]

​@@mr.goodboi2780especially disney

[@MaztRPwn]

The animators need to learn from channels like Devil Artemis and Otaku Versus. They can be fine without Hollywood working for smaller studios or forming their own.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

I mean, look at Battle for dream island. That practically started a freaking genre.

[@kevinbyrne4538]

Animators are heading for extinction. Striking during a recession -- while studios try to save money by sending animation work out of the country -- is not a good idea.

[@JamorrisTyson]

Yeah in a recession animators is already a tuff job to get into and make a living in they want to get paid more because they also are in a recession

[@narcosis1507]

thats why the act of outsourcing should be taxed

[@LegendOfTheFLame393]

​@@narcosis1507trust me they probably are gonna get taxed

Also, the problem with only really focusing on residuals and AI, and downplaying outsourcing overseas. The suits will take their exact words of the requested contract, and give it to Korean, Chinese, Indian, Filipino, etc. studios.

[@marryodina]

Every country

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

The top three reasons the industry is the way it is in no particular order are: 1) Over hiring during covid and over hiring in general. 2) The calarts / woke takeover of animation in general throughout the industry. 3) AI. And everything related to it's proliferation including but not limited to outsourcing. There are plenty of more reasons for the current situation but these are definitely the main ones.

[@Hypernautz]

Good luck to them outsourcing more Jobs. I work in the animation industry. They cant even afford to outsource to China or Korea anymore its too expensive. Everytime you outsource, you are giving them the tools to develop their own animation. The better they become, the more bargaining power they have on the table.

[@doughauck57]

My daughter is one year away from graduating with a degree in animation. I would very much like her to get a job and get paid. Yes, like all college kids, she wants to work at an indie start-up, but the adult in me says maybe 1 in 1000 graduating animators is going to start off at an indie studio. So no, as much as recent Hollywood fare bothers me, I don't want to see the big animation studios fail, and I don't want animators to wind up on the street.

[@chenchen6150]

Japan and foreign animation industry ate their lunch and have good reputation to the point even the existence of certain artificial the demand of real people animating based from consumer demand still stable.

[@marryodina]

That includes Canadian animation

[@killeryhiltons8499]

They too send their work outside like Korea and Philippines smh.

[@chenchen6150]

@@killeryhiltons8499 then it is still qualified as foreign animation industry ate their lunch by work their project.

[@MudkipWithShades]

Glitch Productions shows you don’t need Hollywood anymore. They should inspire us to go indie and make our own animations that isn’t filled with messaging trash.

[@subjectnivleis7572]

Make your own Hollywood to rival the old

[@dogg-paws]

Time to separate the wokesters from the entertainers. I'm all for it.

[@numbuh1507]

Didn't Meta Runner had a lesbian kiss in it? And you're telling me Glitch Productions isn't woke?

[@MudkipWithShades]

@@numbuh1507 If it’s intended for children, it would be.

[@animezilla4486]

​@@numbuh1507just because it has a lesbian kissing that doesn't automatically make it woke people really don't understand the definition of the word

[@1MoreSonicRobot]

Put studios in the 49 STATES THAT ARE IN THE UNITED STATES! The US is a big country you could find cheaper methods within the borders of the US.

[@BlueBD]

That's what i keep saying. Most of this work is already outsourced outside of the country... So why is it that they cannot leave California either? A huge part of their complaints is that they cannot afford to live in the state. Well, why is the studio hellbent on staying in that state anyway? why not move to Colorado? Louisiana? New Hampshire? Montana, etc etc. If they can Pay people in Vietnam and India for the same work they can pay You in Wyoming where the cost of living is significantly cheaper. Decent Internet is available in most places these Studio's do not need to remain in California anymore.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@BlueBDwhat about Illinois and Michigan?

[@mr.goodboi2780]

THIS!!! They should havee studios in Florida, Minnesota, New York, Texas, Michigan, Oklahoma, Colorado, on and on and on. Why they have to continue to try to fit in Burbank is ridiculous. Spread out the talent, the shows and movies will be fresher that way and have more of a unique identity.

[@BlueBD]

@@Cubeytheawesome im just giving examples. Literally Any state is equally as viable as the other, there is no reason for these studios who do not have any direct interaction with production to need to work in LA/California. Artists can work basically anywhere.

[@callak_9974]

@@Cubeytheawesome Probably because typing out the name of each state would take too long.

[@mr.dccomics9018]

Long live the 90s...the greatest era of western animation.

[@dogg-paws]

It feels great to be raised during the Renaissance Age of Animation. I will always look back at it very fondly.

[@mr.dccomics9018]

@@dogg-paws yep. We had the best era.

[@purplespeckledappleeater8738]

In the 1990's I was still watching Scooby Doo and Johnny Quest and the Flintstones and Looney Toons from the 1940's-1970's. The early to mid-2000's was kind of an extension of the late 1990's. The early 1990's just seemed like the death of the 1980's.

[@mr.dccomics9018]

@purplespeckledappleeater8738 true. Culture in general peaked in the early 2000s. It seems like the 2010 and 2020s Culture stopped and has been nothing but failed remakes.

[@carlfromtheoc1788]

The Pandemic showed that people can work remotely - which includes animators. Back around 2015 there was a panel at San Diego Comic-con by this dude who was using his iPad and a couple of Adobe programs to do coloring for comic book panels. He noted withj a decent internet connection he can work from anywhere in the world. Things have moved forward, so doing animation work should also be done in a similar manner. As for outsourcing to North Korea, if knowingly done can incur the wrath of the US Attorney General. Technically, the USA is still at war with North Korea, with just a really long cease fire agreementy in place - so technically, aiding North Korea could be considered treason.

[@ChaosAngelZero]

Hayao Miyazaki was also anti-computers and anti-digital drawing/inking/painting, and yet Studio Ghibli moved on and adopted all of those technologies anyway...

Yeah, that's a good point. AI definitely seems inevitable. I do think there will still be SOME hand-drawn work in the future, but inbetweeners will be AI.

[@mperlatti]

The Animators have zero sway… This job can be done anywhere on the Planet….

[@js5072]

I don't think you guys understand how union strikes work. 1) it's not asking daddy for a new pony, it's the villagers with pitchforks and torches asking prince John to stop being greedy. 2) Unions protect from outsources, the fact that Disney did a secret outsource should have been grounds for striking. 3) "just start your own animation studio" oh yeah, you're basically saying, "if poor, why not rich????" What money do they have to do it? They gonna get a loan and now risk not their jobs for being competitors but now get a debt when they are animators not writers???

[@mangadud]

@@js5072 Finally a comment that makes sense

[@matthew.stevick]

Business is business. No one is owed anything. You have to earn your keep. Things change and you have to adapt, this goes for all industries and things. Economics.

[@ggt47]

Sort of glad now COVID ruined my changes at animation college.

[@Launchpad05]

If these animators were smart, they'd sue The Federal Government, and China for f*cking up the country.

[@zillauniverse7208]

Same

[@Mojaveknight17]

Sad reality rip cartoon network

[@garthoostveen741]

it's actually the end of woke animators at Hollywood is done but the new generation of animators as independent is just the beginning

[@Seras99]

Twitter people tried to paint spindlehorse as some villain of the studio all for outsourcing so yeah. I can see that. They don’t like Vivziepop just because she paid way more money to her animators than what Hollywood animators usually do. 😈

[@gtxxx8023]

remember Hollywood & other companies is making AI to be woke

[@AndrewColomy]

Good riddance. I’m tired of Cal Arts, Tumblr chicks, and queer stuff 90% aimed at women.

[@johanroyce6324]

Sometimes the old world must be destroyed for a new one to be born from its ashes.

[@mrconroy4672]

I wouldn’t put much trust in the indie space long term since they are going to be as left leaning.

[@LuigiTheMetal64]

If they are great animators, they do not need Hollywood. Led Zeppelin never need Hollywood as the band are already talented musicians.

[@JamorrisTyson]

Not in a world where you need money 💰

[@dinorpg]

you can be great, but not financially well off, which could create barriers to being noticed in the animation world.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Alex Hirsch would probably do season 3 of Gravity Falls if Disney wasn’t so stingy. Let’s not forget, he has beef with the Standards and Practices Department

[@amber_b1723]

But for animation, to be successful you need to know like 10 different softwares (that are now introducing AI that you can't avoid) that all have expensive subscriptions on expensive tablets that are industry standard. You also need to be a “jack of all trades” and get paid shit for it to be competitive enough for employers. Also many employers want you to have BFA in animation and sometimes a BA in computer science to even consider you for the position which will barely pay back the debt you acquired from the education. You can be talented as an artist, but doing it on your own takes a lot of time and accepting a lower income and it forces you to be an animator, writer, director, producer, and advertiser to your own work. A lot of creatives have to sacrifice creating in order to have other side jobs to pay the bills, so the time to advance one’s skills increases and they may be continuously behind the new developments of the animation industry.

[@lv7603]

Expensive labor and the risk of hiring activists instead of animators.

[@gloriathomas3245]

@@lv7603 animation have been moving out the US decades now. I don't know where you get stupid argument about activist.

[@zeogold]

​@@gloriathomas3245 Because it's the activists that pushed the industry to this point with their bad writing, crappy characters, and bashing fans of the franchises they're ruining.

[@metalspinda9594]

@@zeogold THIS

[@Skitskl33]

@@zeogoldThat's the fault of the Ceos and executives because they are all activists too. They want their workforce to reflect their ideology.

[@vladline1882]

Part of the problem to a hiring and upper management. Most activists. It's a rot that drives away costumers

[@TheChristianPsychopath]

I could see using AI for inbetweens, which tends to be the more thankless part of animation, but I'm not tech savvy enough to know how well it would work.

[@anthonyklecha6002]

The funny thing is that tweening is already done automatically in literally every computer animation program, 2 or 3 dimensions

[@feedfancier]

AI is a blight, corporations are base humanity at its worse. The only save available is to make interfaces that offers unregulated instant communication and instant monetary transaction. That way the audience would seek out the artists and the artists the audience without the decadent managerial elite.

[@zackzeiler2594]

Filmmakers/actors/animators - you do not need hollywood

[@CdrChaos]

It's long past time for entertainment to LEAVE Hollywood. It's not sustainable to live in Hollywood while you're the working class of the entertainment industry. Go to a smaller state, make an indie studio in a cheap to rent office building somewhere and make animation for a fraction of the price.

[@VPWedding]

Technology does not replace jobs. Greed does. Give a bunch of artists or craftsman better technology and they will produce more things or better things.

[@willythemailboy2]

Of course technology replaces jobs. That's the point of it. Getting more or better from the same or smaller work force is the entire idea. People just bitch that it's "knowledge" jobs now instead of digging mines or building roads.

[@Hedgehobbit]

Letting a small group of artists make "more things" is putting other people out of jobs.

[@willythemailboy2]

@@Hedgehobbit Aggregate demand isn't going to go up much. People are already watching content and playing games at the rate they can afford to, so making more content isn't going to increase total industry sales. One franchise may eat another's viewer count, but in total it's not going to go up much. That means higher productivity per person means the industry will make the same amount of content with fewer man-hours. Some of that will come from shorter working hours and less OT for everyone, but most of it will come in the form of lower headcount.

[@gouravchakraborty9801]

Too late, Anime industry is destroying Western Animation industry as of now

[@LuigiTheMetal64]

If Japan can stay Japan. Even those "sushi rolls" with the rice on the outside in the US suck.

[@tigervalley62]

Going to be real honest, Japanese animation has also become extremely corporate in the last decade. Extremely risk averse and formulaic to the point it's actually hurting the artform in my humble opinion. There is a reason why the creator of Code Geass for example came out and said that it's impossible to make a show like that today. Still these are minor in comparison to the woke capture of their western counterparts, but it's not a healthy nor sustainable industry either. Nevermind the fact it's a borderline sweatshop industry that pays its animators below the legalised minimum wage in Japan.

[@dogg-paws]

If we can get an anime film to beat Inside Out 2, then we might actually be getting somewhere in bringing an enormous change to the animation industry. But that's not the case. What can we do?

[@LatitudeSky]

​@dogg-paws That's really tough because it would require an anime company to step back from a lot of the things they know how to do, in favor of a simple, dumbed-down plot and other elements that parents expect from something like a Disney film. There would need to be song segments and merchandising and parents would have to buy tickets to something they don't know. The Japanese studios tried it with Little Nemo, which flopped, and the Sanrio Unico films, which never got traction. The Japanese studios are happy making domestic content and few of them have particularly cared whether anyone else sees it. They don't want to try to top Hollywood, in other words.

[@gloriathomas3245]

@@gouravchakraborty9801 so explain me why why many anime studios are facing closure, Madhouse being the latest.

[@zachpulido5972]

Fitting that Steven Universe is the thumbnail, since I would argue that was the beginning of the end for western animation. Focusing on more on a small group of older animation fans and making shows focusing on boring concepts. That or annoying comedies that are made to distract toddlers for a few minutes.

[@Dam-a-fence]

Spaghetti Westerns were because of the high monetary costs in Hollywood. Cheaper in Italy and Spain, and Tunisia, just make sure the Libyans know about the sandcrawler this time. You'd think, the struggle could make Skynet less possible, but you'd also think that the beer can get itself one day. A.I. is equal to nicotine, it creates the problem it solves.

[@thefantasticretroreviewer3941]

No matter what Animated TV Show and/or Movie is (depending on who likes it or not), you can still tell that EVERY SINGLE ANIMATOR IN HOLLYWOOD always try to do their Job, no matter what the results is or how much of a struggle it can be

[@williamdrum9899]

The Virgin Pendleton Ward vs. The Chad Don Bluth

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

Both chads axtually

[@RandomAmerican3000]

3:46 Neither do modern day Hollywood writers.

[@domm6812]

I miss the days when there were hand drawn masterpieces being made like what Don Bluth produced. If you've never seen The Rats of NIHM, then treat yourself and go find it.

[@SilverSidedSquirrel]

The Secret of NIMH

[@anthonyklecha6002]

@@SilverSidedSquirrelSame difference

[@danieloutloud9151]

The only thing I do know is anytime I see anything done by AI it has a weird glow and shininess that is very creepy and unnatural . AI cuteness also is , somehow , way off .

[@pronoblewolf]

The animators should have just been giving the people what they wanted instead of trying to turn everything quite literally like how the South Park said it lame and gay

[@dinorpg]

Man, people in the comments really hate animators. As an animator I will just say, we don't decide on the story, designs, or how it's animated. We are just given a storyboard and told to get it done in a certain way, by a certain time. We don't have that much power.

[@rachelfay9582]

“Just form your own indie studio!” “Just get another job; art alone ain’t gonna pay the bills in this economy!” “AI is coming for your job and there’s nothing you can do about it!” “Animators are too woke these days, so they don’t deserve to have stable jobs.” 🙄

[@gibmeaway100]

It's the unfortunate outcome due to the blatant Animosity from lots of people working in animation that can't hold their tongues and want to attack fans of IPs they corrupted. those people being mouthpieces for the industry ensured there was a large group of people waiting for the eventual downfall. The people that were getting shat on by the talking heads in the industry actually matter now that companies can't just take out a loan from SVB or something to bankroll a bad decision, while you middle men may not have asked for this to become the situation, it has ultimately happened because the people in charge didn't think about keeping things sustainable on any level

[@beekeeper8474]

​@@rachelfay9582 😂 they told us the same thing when robots took our jobs so have fun with ai

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Believe me, most people who comment on these videos are near impossible to reason with. Especially with my belief that anyone who uses “woke” unironically is crazy.

[@rachelfay9582]

@@Cubeytheawesome I believe you, alright

[@IcicleFerret]

After the steam-powered loom was invented, members the Weaver's Guild of England rioted and broke the machines installed in their former work houses. Later, the steam engine was adapted to operate engines on rails. American Teamsters rallied against the machines, arguing among other things that the engines would put hard-working horses out of a job. Imagine my shock when writers and artists wail like the world is ending when a piece of technology evolved that could do their job! This is unprecedented! Never before in the history of mankind has technology replaced or reduced specialized labor! (I hope my sarcasm is obvious for that last part.)

[@blockmasterscott]

There’s the buggy whip industry and the elevator operators too!

[@ThatAnnalisa]

The more technology evolves, the more human nature stays the same, LOL. From telephone switchboard operators and the pony express, to cell phones and email, we've managed just fine as new innovations come onto the scene that make our lives easier, and still manage to complain the entire time. 😏

[@narcosis1507]

those people didnt have the power to poison the things that replaced them

[@orboakin8074]

Great comment. As an addition, many of the people who were displaced by these new technologies simply adopted and learned new skills to either stay and advance in theor industries or enter new ones. The main problems with these westwrn animators is how lazy they sewm and how much meritocracy and wokeness have destroyed the talent pool there.

[@TheZorch]

If I were the head of an animation studio, I'd make "No DEI" a non-negotiable keystone of every contract. They want their jobs, then they can't have DEI, they can't have Wokeness. Either DEI goes or their jobs go, make the choice.

[@PaperLigers]

Google's algorithm is already viewed as ancient technology we half understand like we're already living in the fallout universe. Even if we don't create skynet, we're definitely not making it out of the solar system before the sun burns out.

[@TheFatalcrest]

Break the movie and studio life away from just Hollywood, if we make am arts and creative scene on both coastal sides, then up north and down south, abd sit one in the mid west, we at the very least can see how these things actually make staples in different fashions.

[@rogerrussell9544]

They would have a stonger position for negotiations if they did work people wanted to see.

[@camgere]

One problem with AI is that it trains on copyrighted material with no royalties. AI can train on what makes Clint Eastwood or J.K. Rowlings great and just say "we didn't steal anything specific."

[@dogg-paws]

There should be lawsuits and maybe even arrests if any training material happens to be stolen or copyrighted.

[@RokuroCarisu]

To be fair; people can do the exact same without paying royalties. The only differences are that AI works much faster, but much less accurate.

[@RagingGoldenEagle]

A human can do that too and that's suddenly OK lol

[@velveteenv76]

As humans don't we learn/train while watching others or admiring their work also? How many books/games/movies about a Hero saving a kingdom over the ages.

[@Joepacker]

All artists train from the works of others either directly or indirectly, it is no different. Go to any art school and they teach from classical artists of the past. The first things you are taught in art class is how to COPY another piece of artwork. AI does the same thing.

[@BaconMinion]

"Hey guys, if we go on strike now, when we're seen as not being worth it, that will totally make everybody realize how much we're worth! This will in no way cause even more outsourcing and lose us even more money and jobs!" Or also, in the Bubsy voice; "What could possibly go wrong?!"

[@megatonhammer9478]

So to put it simply, AI is only a problem for people who think it's the answer to being cheap and nimble. The thing is this, AI is not the problem just like calculators weren't the problem. Being lazy was/is. The fact is simple, if corporations would care more for the quality of the job rather than the quantity of the money this wouldn't be a problem. It's very simple if you want good AI you're gonna need the people to maintain it. If you want quality animation, you're gonna need the people to draft the blueprints for it. However...you will also have to set a hard requirement that said people will have to meet. If those people don't meet said requirements then they should not employed Simple as that. Hell even entry level jobs have requirements to be thought of as job worthy. In the end, what it comes down to is this, AI is a tool and is only as good as the person who wields it. That being said, the people using it need to be well versed in it and also need to be dedicated to their craft. If they aren't then there's no need to use it at all.

[@ditzydoo4378]

Why do I keep hearing Ron's voice in the background saying, "in twenty minutes they'll be covered in war paint with a pig's head on a spike"???

[@tavvyprods1275]

It could be the January 6th riot all over again.

[@franciscorafaelmontielpale7854]

It really seems this Hollywood folk don't understand, don't they... We are entering a recession and here they are demanding what is essentially a raise... There really isn't a need to "cancel" this folks, they do it themselves. The very talent would go independent and raise, while the DEI hires will go back to Tumblr where they were found, and good riddance to those DEI hires.

[@JamorrisTyson]

Dei hires are there to help people with talent get more jobs form minorities what did dei do

[@tkps]

@@JamorrisTyson That's what it was meant to do but didn't. After the 2020 stuff they rushed to drag in any with a minority status. Talent didn't come first. HW just wanted on its books 'we have x% of y minority'. Merit matters yet HW now employs way more in its industry of those named as a minority than exists in the general population so now over represented. What they ignored re: diversity is diversity of thought, opinion, backgrounds etc. Their DEI equalled 'remove older white men', those with the experience to mentor new staff. Whilst only bringing in a single political ideology stifling creativity.

[@foxboy6145]

@tkps And idiots unqualified for their positions.

[@craigavoncheddzone1174]

​@@JamorrisTyson it,s just a ruse to lay off the experienced staff as hire people who lack in skill as to also convey a message as they tend to lead to lawsuits.

[@pittland44]

Geeky I'm with you. Why is Adam Conover the official mascot of all the Hollywood strikes?

[@vladline1882]

Remember to those activists who fights costumers... You are replaceable. Don't get a smug.

[@MrDonCoyote]

the problem isn't AI. AI has been around since the late 50s. The problem is how much faith people put into this. What we call AI is essentially just a search engine, or a network of collected information. AI doesn't have capabilities outside of this training material. So if you're blaming AI for your shortcomings, maybe the problem isn't AI. But AI is a hype word right now. It's a convenient excuse. And besides. The world doesn't revolve around you. If a job title goes bye bye, you can't blame anyone but yourself for not having a plan B.

[@veggsbacon1891]

I agree. 👍🏻

[@TheXennial79]

I went to school. Trained in VFX and animation. I eventually gave up on the industry after a year of not able to get a job. I have 0 regrets about not getting any job and changing fields. This is an absolute mess.

[@DistinctlyMeFilms]

What field are you in now?

[@dinkmartini3236]

So...the company I work for has to outsource the work I'm doing because I cost too much. I've got an idea...let's go on strike and ask for more money. That'll fix it, alright.

[@kujoredthenatty6648]

We are in another Renaissance. Artist will find another way, create their own content, and then the battle between Artist and AI will be what people feel is better.

[@wesmcinerny4524]

We must bring back talented non-woke American animators!

[@M167A1]

Human animators are a thing of the past. There is nothing you can do to prevent this.

[@tigervalley62]

​@@M167A1: Animation might never be as big as it once was in the past, but like all artforms I truly believe human touched art will always be in demand some way or another. Animation will very likely become a niche thing and honestly, I think that's a good thing......

[@wesmcinerny4524]

@@M167A1 Get lost, AI-worshiper. AI is just an excuse to be lazy and have fewer employees to pay.

[@tywren2486]

Do you know a necromancer? Because the last of the American animators that were both talented and non-woke died years ago.

[@wesmcinerny4524]

@@tywren2486 There's still plenty out there still alive. Stop being close-minded.

[@spiderham20]

I agree with Geeky about A.I., the thing is if you have to choose between it and having to look through decades of social media posts to make sure an animator hasn't said something that can get you or your project in trouble, well I think we know which one Hollywood will go for.

[@inadisguise9824]

If they go on strike, it will just push the studios to use A.I. more quickly and more often. Just to cover them not working during the strike itself. Once the studios start down that road, of using A.I. it is a oneway road.

[@thegiftedfire3470]

The only way I can see is if indie studios like GlitchProductions, Spindlehorse, and the studio behind Lackadaisy gain more popularity and beating studios that use AI. I doubt indie studios will use AI because these studios were founded by people who are passionate about their work.

Exactly. This was exactly what happened in terms of outsourcing during their two-contract-in-a-row strikes in 1978 and 1982. Now, it's harder to NOT name a show inked in Korea or some other overseas country.

[@AvarFeralfang]

Yall really need to do an opening when both of you are present, were Geeky opens and introduces Kneon. It will throw us all for a loop. To bad it'll really only work once or twice, but it would still be fun.

[@sangermain7264]

The thing is when you try to apply for positions in these studios, living in the Glendale area is mandetary, people can't attend office would be a point for them to reject your application. So when it comes outsourcing it's actually more about they want somebody experienced while being cheap. From that aspect, just thinking about currency, it's kinda impossible for local animator to stay in their chairs. But the real problem is actually pretty similar to gaming industry, is that western made animations NO LONGER MAKE AS MUCH MONEY, when your show got north Korean level profit then you got north Korean level budget. Then the true question returned to...why their product fails? Reasons are also obvious.

[@philbertius]

The biggest role I see for AI in animation is removing all the grunt work, I.e. in-between frames. This will affect the people lowest on the rung, but it also means more people could feasibly start an animation studio, since they wouldn’t have to pay so many people. Iow, more room for indies, but fewer roles on big productions. More opportunity, but less access to experience. This will probably further entrench the paradigm of niche entertainment, where everyone watches their favorite sub-sub-genres, and fewer of us have shared cultural experiences coming from entertainment, e.g. Star Wars.

[@falguard]

But, Corporate...if the AI tools can replace entire animation studios, why would we need YOU? We could make animation that we want ourselves, using AI tools at home. You're opening a Pandora's Box here that you REALLY haven't mapped out the consequences on.

[@qZbGmYjS4QusYqv5]

There's Animation Guild too? Where were they during Writers Guild strike last year?

[@westfield90]

The animators on that new Snow White need to get fired. The animation looks so amateurish.

[@kingandrewcecil348]

Agree. These crappy Disney live-action remakes are the biggest "f*** you" to animation, especially the original animated classics they're based on, period. 😤😤😤😤😤

[@thegiftedfire3470]

The animators have no control on the writing department That’s the writer’s job

[@veggsbacon1891]

Another strike?! Damn, it's like dominoes going ring around rosie and then falling down to ashes. And all because of a very overated "boogeyman." Honestly, I kinda feel bad for the animators, regardless of what they're working on. Kinda

[@rileyanthony]

The Hollywood animation dies then at least they can pick up a lot more Indy animation projects for cheaper

[@vidform]

If AI gets really good, maybe we won't need animation studios at all because we can create our own cartoons. Imagine if a parent could type in a few prompts to make a 30-minute animated show for their kid to watch before bedtime. Or you could make a cartoon just to enjoy for yourself just like people can create their own music with apps and maybe a few instruments. We'll create our own animated entertainment.

[@arantarisu_yamu2414]

Make stuff thats not DEI, woke, and pushing the message and you have a deal. Also....bring back 2D animation

[@dogg-paws]

Do you want good storytelling, characters and production values, or do you merely want 2D animation? Don't be shallow.

[@arantarisu_yamu2414]

@dogg-paws I want 2D animation but I also want these people to focus on making stuff thats good in terms of good stories and quality.

[@dogg-paws]

@@arantarisu_yamu2414 You'll miss out on an enormous amount of excellent films. Again, don't be shallow.

[@numbuh1507]

​@@arantarisu_yamu2414then support the upcoming Looney Tunes film.

[@dogg-paws]

@@arantarisu_yamu2414 You and many others will miss out on an enormous amount of excellent films. Again, don't be shallow.

[@SammEater]

I fail to feel bad for animators who worked on the most uninspired soulless animations ever like Velma.

[@BuckRussell-f3s]

When a new technology is let loose on the market, it's out and it will have its effect regardless. This has happened countless times through history. And we cannot cheer on the pros of technology without feeling the cons.

[@JamorrisTyson]

Ai should be a tool not a replacement

[@BuckRussell-f3s]

@@JamorrisTyson There are many artisans from the last 150 years who were replaced by physical machines that would agree with you. But whether it's capitalism or communism, the path of least resistance is taken.

[@z0mbi3pirat3]

@@BuckRussell-f3s Unlike physical machines the datasets that power these "ai" generative models have been trained on millions of copywritten works the AI companies have never legally licensed the right to use. Dozens of lawsuits are currently winding their way through the courts. It only takes one to go the plaintiff's way and the "AI" business model implodes. It's not a similar comparison in any way.

[@BuckRussell-f3s]

@@z0mbi3pirat3 It's exactly the same. No different than people who hand reproduced books lost their jobs when the printing press came along. Although the AI being "trained" on other people's stuff I agree with. I have been calling it "algorithmic plagiarism". And no law suit will touch this because the immense amount of wealth being generated from it will keep it protected. And right now all the the tech companies are 100% in for AI. I believe that to be more about the market push than how useful it is.

[@GrammarSplaining]

Sorry, animators, you cannot stop AI. Loom smashers couldn't stop the Industrial Revolution, and you can't stop what's coming either.

[@JamorrisTyson]

Ai and machines should be a tool to help and make all workers not just animators work easier

[@Tatian4191]

I think they’re underestimating outsourcing in the short term. AI might take your job in 10 years, but the studio is sending your job to India last week.

Exactly. They did fight for outsourcing when it first started and succeeded initially in 1978, but then they wanted ALL animation done in the US rather than 60-70% and things fell apart... If TAG goes on strike, prepare to see quiet layoffs in favor of subcontractors.

[@neotheseattledj]

You can make animated projects anywhere on earth with Internet access, why would they stay in LA where they arent wanted ? My advice to them is to move out and start their own indy projects

[@archibaldc.1833]

Are we going to see another exodus followed by a new company to sweep up the hearts of viewers? I hope so.

[@geekyphoton5584]

Adapt or die. It has always been that way, and always will be that way.

[@AL-ws5yi]

Well, good luck to them. I hope they get what they want but it doesn’t look good.

TAG going on strike is literally a suicide note for LA animation. The last successful strike they had was the 1941 Disney strike. 1978 and 1982 strikes were literally complete embarrassments. So it could very well be "Strike three, you're out!"

[@joesantos7085]

If they didn't want to be replaced they should have cared more for the customer then there message if they had they wouldn't be replaceable. And none of these writers have any lived experiences like Hemingway let them go volunteer as an ambulance driver in Ukraine then they might have a perspective worth listening to and not shit.

[@reaperbot5226]

some of the more talented people would likely be better off doing side projects of their own and uploading a trailer, pilot episode or more to places like KZbin. because if they can get enough traction some big brand might green light a full production, try to buy it or offer them work on something else.

[@TBoneTony]

I would say stop being SJW Activists, focus on making Cartoons that are made for Selling Toys. Earn your job and focus on telling good entertainment.

[@chellastation]

Either negotiating or opening up an Indy studio might be a better idea. At this point, everyone has to take risk to get back on top of the mountain. No one ever said being in the animation industry was easy 😮‍💨

[@scp2539]

ai can't be stopped, it can probably be slowed but not by the people in the industry complaining about it as a large portion of them are actively and intentionally destroying the industry by pursuing a message in the product, which is often insulting, over the quality of the product. you wont end discrimination by promoting discrimination and it doesn't matter what you change the definitions to, most people don't like being treated poorly and all it does is create resentment towards those doing it and those they're claiming to protect.

[@z0mbi3pirat3]

Considering 99% of generative LLMs, "AI", use data sets trained on almost every known copywritten work ever created it can indeed be stopped and probably will be. It might linger in some minor form but the sheer cost to operate those systems combined with massive legal liabilities and super generic outputs will crush that tech in the next few years. The "inevitability of AI" is a wet dream tech bros and investors have been pushing to pump stocks and make quick VC cash. Corporations and creators aren't going to just give up rights to their properties so AI companies can grift and use that material to directly compete against them. AI companies also don't make anywhere near enough income to legally license all the data they'd need to even have the mediocre product they have now. That's not even getting in to how most generative models let people use them at almost no cost. Once those subscription fees start to roll out it'll crash even harder as 99% of users would never pay for it.

[@scp2539]

@@z0mbi3pirat3 ​ You're still talking about AI being slowed, I didn't specifically mention it but I wasn't giving it some 5 year plan of the inevitable AI takeover. AI will be a thing even if it takes decades just like trains/cars/planes, and the internet. It does have its uses and will continue to become more useful as more work is put into it.

[@TexasSpectre]

These animators statistically by and large supported the people who legislated people out of manual labor jobs. They were made jobless and were told to go become programmers, which they often did not have the dispositions to do - they certainly weren’t given any retraining help. Check these animators’ social media posts and you’ll see it. I have no sympathy for these people. Maybe they should learn to weld.

[@devingiles6597]

Oh, man. My childhood is now ruined.

[@SheepDogg-ki1gp]

AI never goes on strike

[@JamorrisTyson]

Ai isn't gonna stop at animation it's gonna spread to other industries AI doesn't need fair wages or time off

[@hamsterama]

@@JamorrisTyson Also, AI won't dye its hair blue and shriek about pronouns.

[@JamorrisTyson]

@@hamsterama gasp they/them you may get corrected a few times the horror

[@emaldon7]

It just uses our weapons against us

[@Doomweapon66]

@@hamsterama To be fair, if the people creating the AI are the ones with blue hair and identifiers then the AI is also bound to fail (i.e. Google's Gemini and the whole thing over it never portraying huwites).

[@Hoi-art]

I cannot support the animation guild if they make it complicated to join. With out the people you would not have a union in the first place. Would it make sense to have more people join the union to gain more power over these corporations? If not then the guild itself is a waste of time.

[@BostonJon420]

I always wonder how much of any businesses sells is from employees and their family trying to support their company. Especially for businesses like Disney

[@avocadopower86]

My lifelong dream was to become an animator, with all of this its become more of a distant dream, i still draw and write but mostly for myself. Its a truly tragic time.

[@LatitudeSky]

They are crazy. With all due respect, they apparently don't appreciate that animation outsourcing was one of the first things the industry learned to outsource. It's been SIXTY PLUS YEARS of outsourcing animation. The stop-motion Chrismas specials everybody adores? Made in Japan. Every aspect of a production can be outsourced, easier than ever, and not just to people but to nearly automated systems doing the work that used to take hundreds of laborers painting cels. The other thing is that the animators have NEVER been respected in Hollywood, going back to Warner Bros. famous Termite Terrace shack. The studios do not care. Never have. And now they can almost just order a show off AliExpress.

[@tkps]

Exactly. How many people were more of less forced to start drawing with a PC/computer program over pen and pencil to get work? I don't believe it's as good but in comparison it's quicker therefore cheaper.You can't force the horse and cart to remain because cars will 'take their jobs' and we can't halt progress. Just adapt and try to make the best use of it. As you say, HW always treated animation as a second class citizen anyway.

[@jonathanenglish9146]

After the "learn to code" debacle, with fellow white collar workers in journalism, I stopped having any fucks to give with Hollywood, Unions, and the "you are ruining my profession" crowd. How about animators move to a more affordable place, start an animation studio, and try being competitive.

[@JamorrisTyson]

If they could they would they go to Hollywood to get jobs it way easier to talk about making a successful company that could challenge decades old billionaire company that it is too actually do

[@pftburchell5197]

Here’s the compromise. The studio agrees to not replace people with AI & not to ship work overseas. The Union/Animation company however, must move to a state with a low cost of living.

[@pftburchell5197]

The studios have all the power here. You can’t beat slave labor in other countries.

[@noonenowhere877]

I don’t get why they don’t just go off and make their own company. Like let’s be real unless you change who the boss is you won’t ever actually change the environment you work in. Yelling at them and then going back will just make them think you can be placated.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Well, the studios like keeping them on leashes. Both their IPs and their Money are in their hands.

[@MrBrndin]

0% interest rates are over, big conpanies are going to have to start paying back all the money they spent in the last 15 years... Executives are not cutting their paychecks. It's simple math and it doesn’t help that none of it is worth watching anymore.

[@tavvyprods1275]

I just watched the Animation Guild Rally video and while I can get behind the suffering they’re going through because of corporate deadbeats and the looming invasion of AI, I doubt because of how the speakers went at it in a loud, radical and profane manner that things will end well for anybody.

[@williamdrum9899]

Also a lot of them probably burned a ton of goodwill they would have otherwise had by mouthing off on twitter

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@williamdrum9899well, Twitter is certainly not a place of reason.

[@tavvyprods1275]

@@williamdrum9899Goodwill?

[@williamdrum9899]

@@tavvyprods1275 They might have had more sympathy from both sides but now they're probably only getting it from the far left these days

[@doubtingflock1073]

We all want things to be different. The reality is when the economy is based solely on acquisition of money the trend is always going to look to lower cost of production and increase profit. What happens to people doesn't really factor in.

[@negirno]

Whenever I hear Kneon talking about AI and/or the death of US animation I never get the impression of him gloating about it. I think he's genuinely sad about the fact that all these art forms getting automated and nothing can be done about it.