Outrunner vs Inrunner Part 2 ** Detailed look at the differences with Holmes Hobbies *FLUX GAP**

[@heavyrc136]

I do t know why, but when it comes to bearding out about things like this. Mr. John you are one of the few I actually want to listen to. Thank you for the wealth of knowledge.

[@jerrodarndt4012]

Good video, always learn something from your videos! It's great hearing all the technical stuff from someone who is a " motor snob" I always take your knowledge and apply it to my crawlers! Keep it up!!!!! Please!!!

[@joker510714]

I really love these technical videos please keep them up

[@justinomarino]

I think a video on out-runner maintenance would be good. What kind of cleaner would you suggest? I don’t have any out-runners. I feel like WA is not the state to have motors that are open to the elements (most of the time we are 50%+ RH). But, maybe if the maintenance is not too bad.

[@JPGrc]

You explained the topic very nicely. Thank you very much.... And nice shirt

[@patrikmoller3643]

Educational as always, we need more videos like this, not only from you but experienced people in the hobby taking their time to share their knowledge and help new guys understanding it better. How well does an outrunner survive if it meets water sand and mud? Asking for a friend 😁😁

[@HolmesHobbies]

If cleaned after, no problem

[@patrikmoller3643]

@@HolmesHobbies okay, I've had brushed motors jam while driving, I've learned to appreciate motors that doesn't have exposed coals sinze they seem to cause less issues. You didn't mention how the flux spacing affects the drag brake?

[@HolmesHobbies]

@@patrikmoller3643 more flux gap area, more drag brake

[@patrikmoller3643]

@@HolmesHobbies I'm sorry but I don't fully get it, I think I do but I'm still not sure, I've always been told that a brushless motor need a sensor to be able to have a decent drag brake. Do you simply just lock the motor in place to keep it from moving using the Flux area? 🤔

[@DESOUSAB]

Mine went into the deep end of the pool for about 30 seconds. No issues.

[@soma_rc]

Very interesting. Now go on about that pole count. And maybe also the turns vs kV. 🤓

[@johnroddy931]

Great video taught me something I didn’t know this time

[@RCJesus420]

Great visuals and explanation. No questions here, you've taught me well through our conversations. lol

[@pieterweerdhuizen4379]

This is AWESOME 👌 👏!!! Now...how about getting te control on the out runner motor? I mean...an inrunner can be sensored (I guess done by PWM) how does this work with the out runner motor? Also there is this thing called FOC technology...how does that work? Thanks for the great video!!!

[@bbeckers24]

Yeah, so I know what KV is, but what exactly controls the KV, what makes one motor a 2700kv and another 3300? And if the can is so much longer on an inrunner, why is the rotor so much shorter, I get the diameter difference, but I couldn't visualize the length. It looks like the inrunner should be able to have a longer rotor to make up for more of that gap area. Thanks for the videos.

[@HolmesHobbies]

I've designed my outrunners to be as short as possible. The inrunner by design needs more room between screws and stator, and also has the extra inavoidable length of the rear bearing, and also sensors if it's sensored.

[@addamsegal]

Kv comes from the windings and magnets. Over time magnets with become weaker and the Kv will actually increase. The longer the stator, the more torque it will have.

[@bbeckers24]

Thanks for the extra feedback.

[@jakemurphy1838]

Love these kinds of videos!

[@rc-daily]

I never had an issue with heat until I got the cm mini v2. Everything seems to get hotter with them.... so much so I had to swap out a cm mini for a micro x at beat the creek to run trails with my v1c1

[@johnrobholmes]

Turn sine power to 5. That's the next vid releasing soon

[@rc-daily]

@@johnrobholmes I have to get the programmer thingy and then watch the video. Other than the heat its a killer esc!

[@kevinbenz8647]

I'm running a scx10ii and looking to go brushless. Looking for something that won't overheat on long trails in florida heat with alot of hills and get a little more wheelspeed also. Wondering what hh motor esc combo you would recommend as I havnt found many videos on good setups for mostly trailing and not super worried about technical crawling.

[@tomlucasrccrawlers9108]

I always looked at it as the outrunner having leverage with the active part being further away from from the center of torque(pinion)... Like a pipe on a wrench effect. But your explanation works too. Hahaha

[@johnrobholmes]

Same explanation of why , different method of getting there.

[@RCRitterFPV]

would be cool to see a comparison against a UAV motor say a 7" 2806.5 or 10" 3115... big boy drone motors but they probably are more similar than the more popular 5" 2207 or 2306; what do they give up for the power to weight ratio. mostly... I guess the shaft can go out either side.... how does that work?

[@knappsterk7414]

Which motor and ESC would be the best for summer heat?

[@coreyhalverson2126]

Have the color changing lights on the shelves always been there?

[@gvchevy7807]

Anyway you could put a video together for a motor esc combo for somebody who does alot of uphill and downhill walking and crawling along the way here and there. My sidewinder 4 and revolver classic overheat while walking im going to throw the fan back on to try and help it out.

[@HolmesHobbies]

You want the same wheelspeed? Is it the motor or esc?

[@gvchevy7807]

@@HolmesHobbies sorry i didnt see you replied. The esc gets very hot to the touch once it shuts down the motor is warm. You can put a finger it for about 5 secs then its to hot to hold your finger on. Its in a wraith 2.2 with battery relocation to the front. Stock gearing. It takes it about 30 mins of uphill walking pace and the esc overheats. The revolver i have is the 1950 kv. It was id say a 80 degree day here in california the last time i ran it. Its been 2 weeks now. I did plug the fan back in but havnt ran it yet.

[@KevinRCMan]

A question I do have about the out runner motor; from what I can see on the backside of the revolver is open up and looks like fan blades. Is the backside of the V3 shaped to act as fan blades for some extra cooling?

[@RC_Ira]

Very cool video!💥💯👍

[@HolmesHobbies]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@RemedyTalon]

So lets compare say a puller pro stubby 2200 vs 2700. Using the smallest available pinion on both, is it "better" to have a 2200 run at a higher average throttle percentage compared to the 2700 run at a lower average throttle percentage since you are using "more" of the 2200's available kv? Will this make for a more efficient setup? I go on very long trail hikes with my rig and are looking for the most efficient setup.

[@HolmesHobbies]

Yes, it's always better to use more throttle than less, on the whole. A 2200kv at full throttle will be more efficient than 2700kv at part throttle due to esc efficiency.

[@HolmesHobbies]

Or even better, use the 2700kv with more geardown so you use as much throttle. More torque, power, drag brake, efficn

[@RemedyTalon]

@@HolmesHobbies Thanks for the replay. The original plan was to run a 2700, however even with the smallest available pinion, it will still be much faster than really needed for 95% of my trail driving. Maybe the 2200 is just what I need. I'm currently using a Crawlmaster Pro 13t which is roughly the same kv and works great for me. I'm still not even convinced I even want a brushless system, you did so damn good with the Crawlmaster Pro.

[@uberKHAOS]

When is Holmes Hobbies gonna make some motors for the SCX24??

[@kenneth_jensen]

Great explanation 👍🙂 Do you know if a waterproof outrunner exists? 🙂

[@HolmesHobbies]

They are all waterproof if you don't let them sit and rust after. I designed mine to run in mud without slinging a magnet. Just gotta care for them after.

[@kenneth_jensen]

@@HolmesHobbies sounds awesome. Think I'm going for an outrunner on my Gladiator or would you recommend another motor? 🙂 I was wondering about another factor of those outrunners. I guess the housing (that spins) also have something to say when it comes to it's weight. Just like a flywheel on our 1:1 cars. If you have a heavy flywheel, you probably have more torque. Have you experienced with that? 🙂 BTW...I'm an engineer. So I'm a like a sponge, when it comes to tech, electronics and software 😀

[@brandondunham8040]

What about running in water and muddy areas. As well as snow. Would outrunner be okay? Or is and inrunner better choice

[@OkNoBigDeal]

You look “court appearance” fresh!

[@hellofromsoutheastalaskarc7517]

Hello from southeast alaska

[@themountain59]

???...that is Canada 🤣

[@ekpauly]

So the outrunner is better…. So when are the quiet plug and play outrunner ESCs going to be available? I run nothing but Holmes brushed motors in my crawlers, but i think its time to switch to an outrunner. I just hate the noise and want plug and play installation.

[@laserbeam1620]

You should make a 550 Revolver for the crazy people like me!!

[@HolmesHobbies]

Revolver classic, can't make any longer without rotor crashing issues

[@paulclancy2404]

Man this exactly what I wondered comes to not using ourunners..in anything but crawlers

[@paulclancy2404]

Still don't get why o.r better for airplane ✈ because more torque density and smaller .? You said because too many parts on in runner

[@RemedyTalon]

@@paulclancy2404 out runners are used in airplanes and drones because they are so light.

[@HolmesHobbies]

Outrunners are used in Drones and planes because "nice" gearboxes are expensive. In Drones, it would make the prop sit too high as well. For high performance planes like pylon , hotliners, etc... the higher performance is still a geared 4 pole inrunner. But it comes at a size and weight penalty, so it's a balance of wing loading and ballast too. If the geared inrunner can be used without extra counterweight and we are pushing for world records, it's still the better choice.

[@paulclancy2404]

Thanks I got it makes sence my swamp boat is very simple and light 👌

[@KaiSyversen]

Can you mount a smal fan on the outrunner to get more airflow over it, to help heat transfer? on a UAV the props help with cooling, I am in now shape or form educated enough to say that this is a viable sollution, But a thought to present. I am aware that a small fan will increse the mass, and potential snag/damage hazard, compared to effeciency of the cooling effect. and there will be less cooling on lower rpms. What are your thoughts on a small/turbine fan mounted on the back of the barrel to move more air over it?,

[@HolmesHobbies]

you could, but it's also noisy

[@KaiSyversen]

@@HolmesHobbies not too noisy if the blades are less agressive. Perhaps ribs in the case to increase airflow?

[@simoncycling6685]

If you connected the outrunner from another source would become an alternator.. example connected the shaft to another and ran it would it produce voltage....or attached wheel could you get regen power ...

[@bbeckers24]

Are you thinking regen under braking, or adding a motor to the system to create regen while running. I don't think the first would work at this scale, and defintely not for crawling, and heat would be major issues for bashers/racers. The latter would use more power than it would create. Otherwise you'd be a trillionarie if you could create perpetual energy at any scale.

[@Ronh83]

I have a puller pro 2700kv and a copperhead esc in my Phoenix. Did my first long trail run and I noticed the motor was running very hot, so hot that I could not touch it. This was on a very easy trail for the Phoenix since it just was a test run. Put a pinion size that Josh (Harley design) recomended for it with that motor (cant remember what it was), and Im running on 3s. Did the same trail with my scx10.3 early bronco that have the original firma 40 esc with a 550 crawlmaster sport, and the motor was just slightly warm and the esc was pretty much cold. Why is my brushless system so much warmer? Can it only be the gearing that is wrong? (Have to check my pinion in the Phoenix).

[@johnrobholmes]

Pinion, or maybe pinion mesh

[@themountain59]

@@johnrobholmes ..or maybe the ESC has an issue 🙄

[@andyaux09]

Might explain why you’d want better torque density

[@justinomarino]

So? I’m sure it Will vary from motor to motor, but what is the usual “sweet spot” or “power band” (what ever it is called) range? Example; from 75% to 90%, or does it very so wildly depending on kv, size etc, that it is useless to think in those terms?

[@HolmesHobbies]

In terms of max power, its when unloaded rpm is loaded to 50%. So unload speed 1000rpm, loaded down to 500rpm. In terms of efficiency, it's normally peak around 5 to 10% of max power but design plays a large role of this

[@tpbutcher]

So 🤷‍♂️ what motor for a 1/8 crawler ?

[@ryurc3033]

Thought I had entered the wrong code in my way back machine, and went too far. At first I thought I was watching a video from years ago....

[@RCRitterFPV]

yeah... would love to see a brain dump chat with you and with someone you respect in brushless engineering.

[@Oper8or]

Another great vid man. I gotta ask, do you shave just to piss off the wife like I do or is it simply because you get tired of it?

[@beleg1437]

Like

[@tobydyes]

Is the OutRunner motor waterproof and what's the max weight

[@HolmesHobbies]

They run in water as long as they are cleaned and dried after. We have guys running the 1000kv revolver 540 pulling 35lb tow rigs.

[@tobydyes]

Thank you for responding

[@themountain59]

What is it with all the folks asking for "waterproofed" stuff?? Do we run submarines?

[@vicdez]

lol.... tq density

[@darkhorsegarage9623]

Wow… the face!

[@biagiomattiamoro1844]

...But why can't outrunners reach high speeds?

[@sjoerddejonge4080]

Holmes bought a razor or his wife wouldnt let him in bed anymore 😅