Holy Paladin FAQs - Season 1 TWW

[@EllesmereGaming]

Thanks for watching everyone!! My full UI is now on Wago packs, check it out here uipacks.wago.io/pack/ellesmere For those of you interested in the HPS Parsing build, here it is: wingsisup.com/tww-talents#the-virtuous-martyr

[@Cyballistic]

I don’t see Merciful Auras explained as an option on the bottom of the Spec Tree talents on the website like the rest of the options!

[@EllesmereGaming]

@@Cyballistic Fixed! Ty for catching that :)

[@Cesarwcm]

bro, i was checking your stream as i always do, and saw you use "Algari healing potion" as an emergency healing, but wanted to share that you can use also the "DarkMoon Firewater" (2.5 to 2.8 mill healing, depends on Quality) and they don't share CD, so you can heal with both in case of emergencies, ty for the teaching, i hope my info helps.

[@DoctorTako]

Ellesmere is truly a gem. I swapped to Holy Pally for TWW and have been waiting for the videos! :D Thank you for the content you put out since I’m too monkey brain to figure out all the information that you share!

[@meeher6558]

So you are the man behind wingisup!!!! I was waiting to see if you would ever update the builds. Can’t wait to try them out in mythics after work!

[@LamentaFortuna]

I have been wanting to swap out healers this expac just to play something new and I decided to swap out playing Druid for Paladin. I really appreciate that there is someone like you in the community who understands a class and will talk through why you do certain things versus others. I'm pretty logical by nature and knowing why is really important to me, even in a hobby setting.

[@brianfairchild4665]

This is only the second video of yours I watched and I appreciate your level headedness.

[@puertorizzle06]

Man I've been watchign so many hpal videos figuring out talents and playstyles and still feel lost as a returning player but this video made so many things clear. Great video, great job explaining.

[@mavrrick]

Great content as always. For LotM, your perspective definitely makes sense for efficient raids. I wonder if it's the same for my casual guild. We're doing normal raids, eventually some of us in heroic raids. I feel I currently get a sizeable chunk of overhealing on me from the other healers in our raids. With that already occurring, why not let that overhealing go to the absorb, and I only occasionally have to drop an EF on myself for that purpose.

[@thecellhawk]

Elle, you are one of the reasons why I am proud of being hpala main.

[@movntn]

I’m sold! Excited to experiment without lotm and virtue for prog ❤

[@OzzyM]

What a great summary! Thanks! I wanted to get back into more healing this expansion rather than only tanking.

[@tommydiva7238]

Excellent guide. Really informative and explained. You have helped me heaps with Hpal.

[@lWreyl]

Something I love doing with Avenging Crusader in 5 man content is using Beacon of Virtue right as I'm using Avenging Crusader and just getting this massive AoE burst for those first 8 seconds. It can push up healthbars pretty quick.

[@Ross-fo2vw]

Ellesmere is the goat! You always make superb content and we’re here for it! Have you tested flasks? That one with random stats seems interesting but I generally take the haste one :(

[@jordanrundell9962]

Great Video elle, and so glad to see you back on hpal!

[@kirankumar-mt4if]

Awesome guide, do you throw the beacon on tanks in raid? Who are the optimal people to place it on?

[@EllesmereGaming]

Generally only brewmaster for tank healing, otherwise just throw it on your squishy ranged dps (hunters, evokers, mages, etc)

[@zekebeilharz5759]

Great to see the specific Hpal content!

[@Givejordr]

I ended up in a 5 man melee group in a heroic yesterday. It was so satisfying

[@stevenkopp4185]

Amazing Video. This answered so many questions that I had. Thank you

[@milklizard]

This has been so helpful for me. Thank you first off. A question I have is when you are running Faith over Virtue (I have been running Virtue in Heroic this week and it has been trucking my mana) - do you generally stick it on 2 targets and forget, or do you actively change the targets as the fight goes on? Thanks

[@EllesmereGaming]

Generally I stick to 2 targets but it can be fight dependent.

[@Tashamet]

The best guide ever! Ty

[@tmbricks6713]

looking forward to your next Holy Paladin video

[@RealAndyOriginal]

Answered a lot of my questions Ty.

[@TMully]

Great video - looking to try HPal in War Within!

[@Achilla_PR]

Fantastic video! Thank you for being so thorough.

[@Tayberries]

Great video. Is divine toll now just a talent now to get a quick wog or lod? Or should be saved for particular interaction… thanks again

[@Devonwilliams-zd1kc]

When you have 4 set you can get the stack bonus fast and if you have all the correct talent procs to make holy shock hit 3x (rising sunlight) it also works for them from toll

[@rakeNerino]

Thanks for the video, great takes. Quick question though: I usually summer on the highest dps in my raid since it convers the 12% into healing. Isnt it better? Thanks!

[@13JasonCastillo]

Is the ideal combo to prism > use 2 holy power spenders > wings (via awakening or avenging wrath), since avenging wrath will extend the duration of current Dawnlighs? Or just prism into wings and then spend holy power

[@KC-py5vq]

I love hpal, but man do i hate having to actually aim light of dawn instead if it just being a smart heal. Why i prefer m+ as a hpal and not raid

[@apollyon2578]

This was a fantastic video... How am I just finding you?

[@governmentghost01]

Awesome, great video

[@gypsiey1437]

Thank you for this !

[@ce8539]

Really funny (to me) interaction with LotM, i was running an icecrown transmog ahnd mount run, heald valithria with holy shock and had a 150 million heal absorb on myself LOL

[@murrayfallen1424]

Super helpful thank you Ellesmere!

[@xSintex]

The amount of people on pally and warrior boards going "HOW BAD WAS THE NERF???". Well its a flat nerf, so it was exactly that bad, which is not at all.

[@Gabriel-cf3bw]

Great Video!

[@Zapgg]

About LotM. For m+, having a more powerful HS to save players sounds like a pretty safe pick, no? Was your comment mostly about raid?

[@josephhuapaya6466]

Thx man, amazing video

[@OldManDoom]

I dumped Light of the Martyr a while ago because I hated having that stupid absorb on me all the time I am glad that really good HPal players are thinking the same thing and it wasn’t just the noob not understanding the real benefit. Get rid of that dumb talent

[@shazinjaved3672]

Welp look at the logs almost everyone is padding hps with lotm lol

[@DayaSportsPer]

The King!

[@milda877]

Thanks for the video ❤ a question: did they change the way you could precast holy light before your virtue, and it would transfer that initial HL into virtue? Because I cannot seem to be able to do that anymore

[@EllesmereGaming]

You can do it but only if you holy light someone other than yourself. Doing it on yourself was broken in dragonflight.

[@Kwispy]

Hi! i just have a quick question that i cant seem to figure out. im using heal bot to heal. I cant figure out how to get my dawnlights to show up on my bar, as well as my eternal flames. any tips would be appreciated

[@evan_3714]

As someone who really enjoys lightsmith but wants to do some mythic plus what do you think my realistic cap would be without trolling people? Thanks. Returning player from cataclysm.

[@Devonwilliams-zd1kc]

Play what you want and have fun who cares man no need to be sweaty meta slave 💯

[@-dubu]

You can generally get within 1 key level of the cap on off meta builds, but if you’re a returning player your personal skill will cap you long before that. Don’t worry about it and play what you like and try to learn as much as you can :)

[@OneHundredProof]

So a couple things... 1. Warcraft Logs DOES now show the healing absorbed from LotM talent as negative healing. 2. This talent is highly dependent on the player. If you are openly Holy Shocking max health players, well you're dumb anyway, but yes this talent will be a problem. 3. If you are playing this talent as intended to be played, you can add effectively double the healing that the absorb is taking away, so it IS an effective HPS increase. Example: For instance, LotM added about 30M to my holy shock healing on Heroic Broodtwister while only creating 16M in negative healing absorbs. So the net is a positive 14M healing) and that is not even counting the passive benefit Bestow Light provides when you are under 70% health, which isn't huge, but did add another 1.5M healing in my case on Broodtwister. So overall the talent doubled the negative effect creating a net positive outcome. I could be missing something, I will admit, but from looking at the logs it seems this talent is highly effective for progression content when the raid is getting slapped, but will become less effective the further in we get when your raid is generally safe through fights.

[@EllesmereGaming]

Can you link me your log? I'd be happy to further look into that but your numbers have to be off :( Here's a breakdown of LotM math: Lets say my Holy Shock hits for 200,000 naturally. Light of the Martyr at MAX stacks will buff that by 35% (70,000) so it now hits for 270,000. Then it will take 30% of that and apply that as a healing absorb to you. 30% of 270,000 is 81,000. So while your Holy Shock was buffed by 70,000, your healing absorb was 81,000 which ends up being a healing loss even if you get FULL value from the Holy Shock (no overhealing at all). If you get any overhealing from Holy Shock the value of the talent plummets significantly into the negatives because it's already a healing loss even when getting full value from it.

[@henryzhu9290]

Just adds up some simple math for LofM, and it's basically what Ellesmere replied above. Suppose you are always over 70% of your health, w/o considering overhealing, then this talent gives you 1.35*0.7=0.945, a net decrease of 5.5% of holy shock. If we do consider overhealing, let's say an usual amount, around 20%. Then this latent gives you 1.35*0.8*0.7=0.756, a net decrease of 24.4%. It's just a meter leech to spend two talent points into LofM.

[@partydean17]

While I'm sure most here don't need it, if you're going to talk about a talent/ability, like when comparing Beacon of Faith vs Virtue, could you just hover your mouse over it for us noobs go get a reminder? Thanks! Enjoyed the insight

[@etiennegoujon5868]

Hey Elle, just another question, Barrier of Faith is that underwelming ? Holy Prism is really the only go to ?

[@EllesmereGaming]

Yeah barrier of faith is just not good enough compared to prism atm. Hopefully it gets buffed but in its current state I don’t see any builds running it

[@Blacknotpanther]

I think dropping lotm is mostly for the highest end content like big progress mythic raiding and m+. Which the majority of the ppl here dont do anyway lol

[@OneHundredProof]

It actually doesn't have anything to do with the level of content, has to do with the group, but Ellesmere is way off on this, not sure where he is pulling his math from. He tends to get raiding stuff really wrong though. He is more of a M+ player. Look at the Holy Paladins in Method, Echo, Liquid, they are all playing LotM. It is very effective during progression when the raid is getting slapped (no matter what level your team's progression is at). Just don't be casting Holy Shock on people above 95% health and you'll be fine. The effective Holy Shock healing added was double the absorb shields for me on Broodtwister just as an example.

[@Synesthesia-r9]

I thought the healing absorb from LotM only applied to Beacon of Light (like the tooltip suggests), it's not a general healing absorb. Meaning you can heal yourself normally, but beacon healing on yourself is negated against the absorb.

[@Cyperbunk1]

Great vid

[@Froomies93]

The LOTM the Talent says it only effects beacon healing? Then the any other healing would not even proc that shield and go directly through it to your health? Am I miss understanding something, but to me it reads as it is only a heal absorb for Beacon healing?

[@mia92baer]

I don't understand why there are 2h-int-weapons in the vault for holy spec when they do not make any sense to use (as we cannot use SotR anymore then). It eats up a valuable slot in the vault which means I have less valid options to choose from.

[@Retalin_]

Thank you!

[@MrPersson94]

Do you always cast holy prism on enemies or do you cast it on friendlies for damage in aoe?

[@jhk9626]

I have a question. Darkmoon ascension is on a crafted weapon which is lower ilvl than a myth weapon at full ilvl right? Then once you get a myth weapon, do you ditch it and get a new embellishment or is the crafted weapon more powerful than a max ilvl weapon?

[@EllesmereGaming]

For raid you’d stick with ascension , but for m+ you’d drop it once you got the mythic weapon and run m+ embellishments instead

[@jhk9626]

@@EllesmereGaming thank you! I'm on my way to craft one right now. I've been saving my spark to see which embellishment is the strongest:D

[@slickftw]

I don't find LotM that big of a deal because of all the constant raidwide healing going on - I rarely have to deal with the absorb it's taken care of by the raid. I like having my holy shock doing so much healing personally but I can understand why some might decide to drop lotm

[@CsStoker]

I may be stupid but I still can't manage how to heal properly with the new holy paladin in raid, can you make a guide or post some examples in how to do that?

[@69ricsko]

So if i understand clearly, u can build haste crit in both scenarios?

[@ranzort]

Great stuff

[@Kyo1085]

after the removin of daybreak i can't full up the group in m+ anymore.. wich is the best way to full your party when all is taking much dmg?

[@Entariiljc]

In regards to martyr is there no consideration in raid for the fact that there's usually 3 other healers healing along side you? it's not exclusive that the paladin is the only one that can clear the absorb and with the overhealing that occurs between all 4 healers does it not work out that it's still good to take?

[@xXxiLoOvEwEed420]

If u think about it its still an hps loss, if not for u then for the unfortunate gamer that has to heal that absorb off u

[@OneHundredProof]

That's not relevant since it is still negative HPS, but Ellesmere's math is wrong on the benefit of the talent. Yes you do get some negative from the healing absorbs, but the additional holy shock healing effectively doubles this, so it is still in fact an effective HPS increase to talent LotM. This is why all the RWF guild's holy pallies are taking it. They don't make stupid decisions...

[@Entariiljc]

@@OneHundredProof surely it’s a factor no? There’s so much damn overhealing in WoW right now that at some point the amount of other healers you have makes the absorb basically nothing?

[@jamesgrafton8606]

Mt goat

[@gruncleiroh5525]

Kinda new to holy and really enjoying the lightforged crusader build, but when you use "dont overcap holy power" im not sure if inside my avenging crudader wings the better spender is wog/lod for their healing power, or if shield of the righteous is actually better hps to get back to crusader strike faster. Im also malding every time I loot a two handed int weapon....

[@EllesmereGaming]

SotR is definitely never the move for hps, it’s great for damage but ya in the situation you mentioned, using WoG/LoD is definitely the better choice for healing

[@EllesmereGaming]

And ya the 2h looting is crazy blizz gotta take those off our loot table asap

[@JennyBrown-wq6jh]

How horrible is the Mana-Lined Slab Slicer? It dropped for me in an 8 delve using a map, so currently sitting at 610ilvl. I know I would lose shield of the righteous. It looks like it specifically drops for holy pally. I guess I am just confused by this drop.

[@EllesmereGaming]

Yeah for some reason blizzard still has 2handers dropping for hpal. Been a problem for a few xpacs now. You can use it in raid since you never SotR in raid, but I definitely wouldn’t in M+

[@RottieTV]

nice this was helpful

[@LazyLautrec]

Hey just swapped to HotS after using lightsmith mostly and the bottom part of suns avatar doesnt make sense to me. It says using wings will apply 4 dawnlights but everytime I pop wings it just gives me 1 tether? am I missing something in the wording?

[@EllesmereGaming]

Regular wings activates 4 but Awakening only activates 2, and sometimes that can go on yourself which will not create a beam, but rather radiates the healing/damage within 5 yards of you instead

[@LazyLautrec]

@@EllesmereGaming ahhhh ok I was super confused trying it on the cleave targets in town and was only get 1 beam and was super confused.

[@Michaelkayslay]

So blessing of summer. I cast on myself. Pop wings and it does damage?

[@fuzzypockets]

It converts your healing into damage that is directed towards nearby enemies

[@Michaelkayslay]

@@fuzzypockets so am I right? Or am I not understanding it ?

[@fuzzypockets]

@@Michaelkayslay You wanna cast it on yourself, then pop wings, then do as much healing as possible. The more healing you do, there more damage the blessing will do

[@Michaelkayslay]

@@fuzzypockets perfect . Thanks I get it now :) thanks big boy

[@TylerWalker-c7h]

Am I the only Hpal running melee wings? Its much more fun imo and feels like a great cooldown.

[@Spino8336]

so.. i know u guys want that healer make DMG but i play in pugs and i cant do dmg bc everyone needs more healing.. is there a build or so where i can focus on healing and not DMG : /

[@tylerchapman8856]

I am also capping on holy ppwer so u have to spend them on yourself to heal the heal absorb

[@MihoNightwalker]

Why veneration? That thing is so bad. Can you show us what % of your overall heal does veneration make?

[@Schnaqer]

Why does hpal always seem to catch stray bullets when it comes to balancing?

[@rhettdepol4629]

Dude I just can’t get over the clunky feel of hpal. I want to like it, I just can’t

[@MrDareius91]

feels like we got fuckd abit more with the recent nerfs...

[@Pallywagz]

Unfortunately with raid leaders only going off of hps logs, martyr is necessary if you want an inv. Lol

[@EllesmereGaming]

There are plenty of top parses without light of the martyr. It definitely gives you a boost but not significant enough that you can’t still parse well without it.

[@Pallywagz]

@@EllesmereGaming good to know!

[@OneHundredProof]

@@EllesmereGaming I think your math is off man or maybe I am missing something else? Warcraft logs now shows the negative effective healing of the talent and the increase to Holy Shock (as long as you aren't blasting full health targets with it) can more than double the negative of the absorb. If it's so bad, why are Joki and Driney running it? I feel like they don't make dumb decisions... Looked into my own logs, the LotM buff added almost 30M healing to my Holy Shocks and the absorbs were only equal to -16M healing. Plus I got an extra 1.5M from bestow. If I am wrong, can you explain your math on why?

[@avstzn]

if beacon of virtue replaces beacon of light, does the talent beacon of the lightbringer even do anything at that point considering everyone is technically a beacon? O.o

[@EllesmereGaming]

It ensures that everyone gets full mastery value while beacon is active (cuz the person with beacon gets full mastery value)

[@maxxramas]

any idea why when i proc infusion or divine favor my flash / holy light icons don't glow? using standard blizz ui

[@EllesmereGaming]

Try checking your spell alert opacity in the settings

[@EllesmereGaming]

Wait actually yeah I think by default they don’t glow. Spell alert opacity is the animation around the character. To make them glow I use a weakaura, it’s part of my packaged UI but I can upload an individual one, I’ll add that to my todo list

[@maxxramas]

@@EllesmereGamingthank you!

[@baneinei2467]

does anyone know where dawnlight goes when used with light of dawn?

[@EllesmereGaming]

It goes on a random person that was hit by LoD, doesn’t seem to be any logic for which it chooses

[@ala-th3ln]

My wrist hurts playing hpal, it's like i'm playing poe using a build other than rf. I'd rather play rshaman, hpal is too intense, and not in a good way.

[@EllesmereGaming]

This happened to me last night in raid lol the apm is definitely very high relative to other healers

[@AlwaysJipped]

Think the 6% hit was justified or blizzard just seeing lotm logs?

[@Magnus-W-O]

He kinda addresses this in the end of the video. The 6% nerf is not going to change hpalas spot in the meta and the spec still feels good to play. My personal assumption would be that the aura nerf was more so warranted currently because of the Dawnlight bug that doesn't reduce the healing beyond 5 targets,(not lotm) and chances are once blizzard fixes that bug they'll buff Dawnlight to compensate so our final output will be similar.

[@Akihito_Kanbara]

99% of people won't even notice a 6% decrease. It's barely worth mentioning.

[@jonathanwynne6925]

I wondered the same.

[@H3yPshot]

See I'm lvl 79 505 ilvl a throw out a heal on my pally the bar doesn't even move

[@saeedrajabi739]

Thank you elle, every second of this video was great, 🫡

[@Faiythe]

What you said: "LotM is a trap, it's only good for logs, don't take it..........BoF is viable, place it on the most endangered people" What I heard: "LotM is a must, take it every time with BoF and then place a beacon on yourself"

[@tylerchapman8856]

Light of dawn should be baked into shield of ritcheous

[@fnankran]

Ive always thought that it should be this way.

[@ohsnappyrogue]

Blessing of seasons is easily my most hated talent. I hated it back in Shadowlands and guess what ITS STILL GARBAGE.

[@sichuancowboy]

I used to have this opinion, then I got better. It's off the GCD, track it with a WA, and bind it to macro/clique cast such as Cell and you'll be pumping like a god.

[@Moonwired]

3:45 Nah we’re not getting nerfed into the ground because of light of the martyr, we’re probably going to get nerfed into the ground because of sheer incompetence.

[@tudorikz]

is 6% a nerf into the ground though? we are roughly 8% ahead of everybody else at the moment, so it shouldnt really bury us imo

[@Devonwilliams-zd1kc]

@@tudorikztbh x% doesn’t mean anything if you play poorly or are struggling to learn mechanics etc lol that “6%” you won’t even feel it

[@calumbir]

I really really really disklike virtue so can't play my holo paladin untill they change it. i only do m+ content

[@pfc_church]

Not sure how much you check comments but I hope you see this. I regular check your stuff and I am consumer of your content. The reason the avg healers prefer Growl is he understands the POOG mindset. Your comment about the the 6% nerf not being a big deal is probably true in a I have mastered Hpal prospective. When you make content sometimes things are leaned on to bridge the gap between good and bad. Good Vengeance and Bad Vengeance are being exposed now for example because of those types of nerfs. When you say dont worry about it the heroic guild guy who comes here will struggle to figure out how that is true but he is not HPS king on his team any more or struggles more. When you say dont worry about it that is not always true. Making guides and builds without taken into account people dont play on your level is why Growl and Dorki are kings for content at the moment. They make the dyi for wow. Your content is always been how you play the game and not for general admission players. I think you have potential for both types. Maybe its a time constraint. You only can put out what you are doing at the moment. I get it. I think you could be a good teacher. Give it a shot.

[@EllesmereGaming]

I appreciate the feedback, but I still stand by the 6% nerf being warranted for all player levels. Hpal has been dominant on the healing meters in heroic, and that’s only going to widen on mythic when raid sizes are reduced to 20man. A 6% nerf is very minor, you’ll barely notice it no matter what level you’re playing at, and it’ll keep us S tier while being balanced.

[@pfc_church]

@@EllesmereGaming That comment you made is the same comment Vengeance hunters heard or Fury warriors recently, etc. its noticed by some. that said that is not my main point. I am not saying you should change your opinion. I am saying unless you do those kinds of content it tends to swing by less then 6%. We dont have sets for the most part. HPal has a good 2set. Keeping in mind that timing placement etc of Hpal is important to that HPS. You have some just casting shock WoG and Infusions heals. wings is something they just getting used to or never good at. When you say its not a big deal that is when you using your kit successfully. It is kind of nuts to say all lvls and we including the people I just talked about, 6% might be felt. that being said the comment was not about what you said but how you give it. Let me try another alternative to that sentence. "Hpal lost 6%. They adjusted melee wings. HPS when doing standard wings wont feel the 6%. etc etc." When you watch your video it is obvious where you were putting the power in the Hpal. Wings. Holy prisms timings etc. See the difference in that than dont worry about it the 6% is deserved? That communication is the difference between your content and dorki, growl or even better Quazii. I often think you hover between being a strong wow communicator like Kalamzi and phoning in videos. I dont know if this is your day job or what effort in scripts etc you can put in. I am sure you are doing fine now and maybe you never heard this before. I am random person on the internet. If you doing fine and think its not something you want to address just ignore chat like this. Telling your watchers ya i read your note you wrong about a thing that was not the main point is not the best use of your time. Reading this wall of text is not a good use of you time. I hope you do get this far. either way I am pretty sure no more responses would be the normal here so good luck.

[@EllesmereGaming]

​@@pfc_church I hear what you're saying but I also don't think that it's wrong of me to have an opinion. Your opinion is that the 6% nerf will drop hpal significantly in the standings of throughput healers at less coordinated levels of play. My opinion is that it won't. I'm not saying I'm right, but as a content creator it's my job to have opinions and explain my line of thinking. It's okay to disagree with me, but I also think it's okay for me to state my thoughts on the subject. Here is what 50th% hps logs look like across heroic raid: www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#metric=hps&dataset=50 Here is what 10th% hps logs look like: www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#metric=hps&dataset=10 And here is 90th%: www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#metric=hps&dataset=90 Hpal is actually more ahead of other healers playing at a low level compared to a high level, and furthermore if you take 6% off of any of these statistics, hpal will still be at the top of the meters, the gap will just be smaller. I use statistics and community feedback to help formulate my feedback for the average player, I don't purely use my personal experiences as I know they're vastly different from the majority of the playerbase. I combine my experiences with stats and feedback from players across all levels of experience and try to formulate my opinions/feedback and express them to my viewers as best I can based on all of that. My point of discussing the 6% nerf and telling people not to worry about it, is that players have the tendency to see nerfs like this and overreact, often causing people to roll other characters or change raid comps cuz they're worried about the affect of the nerfs. For example, in Shadowlands season 1 Hpal was considered so bad that many Hpal mains rolled other characters, only to find out that every "tier list" and content creator that overreacted to tuning was wrong, which caused a lot of issues with raid teams not having Holy Paladin players prepared. I had hundreds of Hpals coming into my chat at that time telling me stories about this and how it affected their raid team and tons of guilds had to emergency recruit and players lost their raid spot. I try to prevent overreactions to small tuning changes to prevent things like this from happening, and I try to give the most realistic and accurate portrayal of exactly where holy paladin is at strength wise.

[@pfc_church]

@@EllesmereGaming Under reacting is not a good tactic when educating people as well. You didnt need to convince me that the 6% was ok or warranted. most of that last comment seemed geared to prove it. I never said that at all but you hung up on that. None of those links hit that player based i talked about. wasted a lot of your time. I agree you dont want to worry people. That's the communication part. Look at more serious issue. covid precautions. when people at the start did not want to worry people it caused the opposite of that issue. When you communicating to people engagement is important to highlight what is important. You dont want them to worry about nerfs talk about how strong wings is if used properly. like i said. it still doesnt cause concern and focuses the audience into whats important. Its just communication.

[@sympathism]

Very, very sceptical about your takes my man. - Virtue allows you to put automatic extra hps to the people that need it, instead of contributing to overhealing like double beacon does. Youre right that it does consume more mana but in 95% of the cases it is not an issue. - because light of the martyr works with automatic self healing you get from avenging crusader, judgment, light of dawn, virtue and probably some other things, it allows you to mitigate overhealing a lot and save people from the brink of death much quicker with shock. - lightsmith, confidently, does not do less healing, and does even do more healing, if played correctly. I hit 950k hps with it during raid encounter, and 1.6m during thrash emergency situations. Bulwark healing value is absolutely off the charts. Especially with blood dk or guardian tanks with insane health values and absorb increases, it can heal one person for 3 million with one button. Not to mention, you get one too, which means insane value on your blessing of sacrifice and other self-damaging skills. In addition, doubling your holy power spenders during wings, weapon 300k healing proc and the boost on avenging crusader with the crusader strike damage talent and free sacred weapon healing is no joke either. - speaking off avenging crusader, it works fantastically with lightsmith and martyr. Double uptime on your double word of glories, crusader strike 20% damage and healing buff. Awakening with the free judgment crit also proccing anvil. Its made for it.

[@EllesmereGaming]

- Virtue isn't a smart smart heal, it does not distinguish between players that are 90% health or 10% health, it just targets anyone that's injured. This means that the idea of "automatically places hps on people that need it" is often not true. Faith allows you to funnel huge amounts of healing into prio targets that you can even change mid encounter. In Mythic especially there's almost always a few players in charge of dangerous mechanics or that are extra squishy and need heavy protection. As for mana, it's actually extremely important. Last night I was able to give all of my Blessing of Winters to our resto shaman on the last boss of heroic and it made a massive difference for his mana problems. Other healers, esp Rshaman gain a huge amount more throughput relative to us with increased mana regen. If I can let him do hundreds of thousands more hps by funneling my excess mana into him, that's WAY better than gaining some generic aoe healing from virtue when I could be doing similar hps (a bit less) with Faith. - There is no self healing aspect from AC, LoT or Virtue so I have no idea why you're mentioning these. Any of the healing that goes on you from these sources is healing that would've gone on others if you were full health. Same with judgment, although at a 50% rate, and that self healing is pretty minor. I used to be a huge fan of LotM and in fact didn't change my stance on it until recently when I was able to deep dive logs and really look at the negative impact of LotM. The reality is that if it worked the way it should on logs where it counted the healing absorb as negative healing, no one would even be talking about the talent because it would be a healing loss. Because it does the opposite to logs atm, it can be hard to visualize the negative impact. Here's an example: Top parse right now on last boss on heroic, here is their healing done with holy shock (115m) - www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CGPgxFHDd4J1ztZv#fight=70&type=healing&source=17 They had an 82% uptime on LotM, dropping it over 20 times which means being generous they averaged a 28% buff to holy shock, or 32.2m healing. The total absorbs from lotm can be found here, which was 37m: www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CGPgxFHDd4J1ztZv#fight=70&type=healing&options=34822 Every healer had this hpal as one of their top players healed, whereas on my kill (private logged, but you can check others without lotm), I was almost dead last from every healer. All these extra globals from other healers and yourself, all the smart healing that's added to you, this is all very real and relevant. You take away healing to others when you damage yourself. Imagine a warlock having Burning Rush on the entire fight to move quickly, but he has some leech so he says its fine. He may mitigate some of it, but he's still going to eat up a bunch of smart heals and make healers spend extra globals on him. The benefit we get from LotM just isn't worth it right now, especially because of the overhealing issue but also just in general. - Lightsmith does great healing but not effective healing, if you actually look at your breakdown of healing done, 90% of Bulwarks healing is on tanks because the procs always go on tanks. Just because something does higher hps doesn't mean it's the better healing option (lotm is another good example of that). Bulwark may look good on the meters, and is GREAT for tank healing for sure, but you lose a HUGE amount of AoE, spot, and burst healing power compared to Herald - AC is a fine build, and in fact is one of my recommended builds on wingsisup, but it's simply a matter of healing profiles and hps and weighing the two when it comes to deciding which is better for which situation. Overall it's no debate that regular wings has the better healing profile since it's targeted, but if AC was outperforming it in HPS there could be a meta shift. Currently it just isn't

[@sympathism]

​​@@EllesmereGaming I gotta say thank you for the thorough response. Allow me to respond with some thoughts. - For virtue, you have some leeway and manipulation on who and when to use it. Particularly, it always puts one one your target, and you will only use it during times where it is clear raid-wide damage is happening. Shifting two beacons around is not worth any global cooldown 95% of the time. - In practice, I believe that often there is self-healing from AC because your damaging holy power generators now heals 5 instead of 1 targets. You use judgment more often as the cooldown is reduced. - I have dived into LotM and im totally in agreement with you on that one. It even shuts off beacon on yourself what the hell. - I have extensively played lightsmith and the idea that you lose 'HUGE' amounts of aoe and spot healing is simply not true. It is probably less than herald, yes. But do remember, during AC, your word of glory is replicated, your sacred weapon helps with aoe healing proccing for 120k heals, crusader strike damage and healing boosts makes it so that AC crusader strike aoe heals much more, and judgment and weapon enchantment procs for 150k/250k of free aoe healing that herald simply doesnt have access to. - The logs that youve sent are very interesting, though I do wonder how many players play lightsmith AC on a top level? Or even tried to? I think it's underrated or not figured out as much yet, and therefor underpicked by the best of players. - I agree with the statement that more hps doesnt equal effective, life saving healing. Though on the other side of this coin you could argue that LotM allows you to put more healing into players that need it more than you do. In addition, bulwark takes off lots and lots of pressure to keep tanks up and running so having the room to cast more efficient group heals instead of emergency tank spot healing is actually greatly beneficial to any encounter. Thanks for the response and I appreciate your work

[@colinikeodurham9483]

Martin Kimberly Smith David Robinson Kimberly

[@SkullsnTurbos]

"We won't get nerfed to the ground because logs", next day 6% heal nerf 😂 you give blizzard too much props.

[@chubbychocobo5725]

This video was released after that 6% nerf and he addresses it at 19:07