Funny thing is as a taxpaying citizen who works for a living no one has ever come up to me and asked me if I have some place to go.
@U.s-epa Жыл бұрын
Right? 😂 instead we're taxed up the butt and nothing ever gets better.
@CsJ-y6g Жыл бұрын
With every pack of cigarettes and every bottle of booze. Every tank of gas and every consumer item purchased, homless people ARE paying taxes.
@U.s-epa Жыл бұрын
@@CsJ-y6g eh not really in Oregon because we're mostly taxed from property abs income.
@CsJ-y6g Жыл бұрын
@@U.s-epa WHAT I CANT BELIEVE IS THAT YOUR GOING TO RULE YOUR ARGUMENT OFF THE WORD MOSTLY.....LOL
@U.s-epa Жыл бұрын
@@CsJ-y6g sweet reply bro
@ReedsBeans Жыл бұрын
Glad our homeless committee is basically an overpaid clean up crew
@jzen1455 Жыл бұрын
We just need another committee to oversee the homeless committee.
@ReedsBeans Жыл бұрын
@@jzen1455 🤣
@thefelonattorney Жыл бұрын
Where will they go? How about back to their home states for a start.
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
You mean Oregon. That's where they're from.
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
Yeah, legions of drug addicts arrive in Portland, and they've never paid one penny in taxes to Portland or Multnomah County. Compounding the problem, are the hordes of illegal aliens who migrate to Portland because it's a sanctuary city. That's a formula for bankruptcy.
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
@@karlabritfeld7104 Officials in many towns in Idaho and Montana put their drug-addicted riff-raff on buses to Portland to get rid of them. Until recently, Portland allowed drug use in public, and this was very appealing to people who wanted to spend all day getting high, instead of working for a living.
@htas6888 Жыл бұрын
Did all these people live in a place in Portland at one time and then lose their house or apt, homes they owned or rented.. Are all these homeless really from Portland and surrounding areas? it is hard to believe that it can be true.
@thefelonattorney Жыл бұрын
They have mostly come from out of state
@GalacticTradingPost Жыл бұрын
keep advertising your social services and hand outs. red states look clean because they bus their losers and crazies here. look up homeless relocation program, every state has one.
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
I grew up on the coast of oregon came up here with a girl almost 2 years ago and havent had good luck so im out here as a resident of oregon
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
Yes they are from Oregon. Go talk to them.
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
@@thefelonattorneyyou've asked them personally?
@03PaK Жыл бұрын
Sadly deserved. People in Portland just shrug off these issues. I’ve dealt with these people in real life and they defend this saying “housing prices are too high what else can they do”.. it’s such a lazy excuse for this activity.
@johngillon6969 Жыл бұрын
Housing prices are always high. i bought my house in 1989 and worked two jobs my wife worked two jobs. we put down 20 percent cash we had saved from each of us working two jobs. Not sad. that's the way it is done. You work and are productive and buy a house. most of the homeless i have asked have lived this lifestyle over a year. some seven or eight. In life we all do what we do best. these homeless feel the victim and use drugs to avoid looking at their lives. The Vietnamese work hard and buy houses for the family and then buy houses for each of the kids. You don't see any Vietnamese homeless. You ever wonder why?
@truther001 Жыл бұрын
@@johngillon6969 Many homeless have had horrific, dysfunctional childhoods and never lived normal lives.Also, the mentally ill have no place to go. Government and non-profits embezzle the money that should be going to the homeless.
@johngillon6969 Жыл бұрын
BALONEY, Most of them prefer to live under a tarp because they don't want to face the stress of working for a living. Don't want to get up early . People like YOU tell them it is not their fault, so they fancy they are victims, which gives them an excuse to behave in an anti social way. If it were up to me i would bring back the chain gangs, and make vagrancy a crime like back in the Good Old Days.@@truther001
@guddsitizen402411 ай бұрын
Yes the state does extort humans. They take everything they under the guise of creating a solution to a problem they sometimes create. Nothing will stop a person who benefits financially that is so far removed from responsibility and morals
@surelyyoujokemeinfailure7531 Жыл бұрын
When the NE 33rd drive camps get cleared, the residents all move to Springwater/82nd. When Springwater/82nd gets cleared, the residents all move to the woods near NE Airport Way/138th. When the woods near NE Airport Way/138th get cleared, the residents all move to Rocky Butte. When Rocky Butte gets cleared, the residents all move to Marine Drive. When Marine Drive gets cleared, the residents all move to NE 33rd. This shell game costs a lot of money, lets the city say something is happening, and doesn't accomplish anything.
@methus57 Жыл бұрын
ALL of these people have been offered clean, safe, heated housing in shelters, but they refuse to go because they don't want to live by any rules.
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
My Guy, lemme just say that you sir/ma'am, are clearly misinformed! As a 33rd homeless resident, i myself HAVE NOT been offered any type of help nor alternative! Some people dont have anyone... and things are hard on your own, but why would they want to take what little we have at a time of year like this it could be deadly. Sometimes people should offer a hand rather than an opinion i believe! We'd be a much stronger existense together!
@zoom1490 Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991as someone who was homeless until 2 years ago here in portland, i gotta say it's on you. Regardless if you're a homeless youth or someone in your 40s. You know you can always call 211 and have them tell you the possible shelters you can go to. But i agree with the guy above you, even if you did get that assistance, it sounds like you'd find a reason to not accept it
@johnoliverio8729 Жыл бұрын
Spot on! Absolutely Spot on!
@justiceforall007 Жыл бұрын
I disagree with you assertion that shelters are "safe". Having been to shelters when I was homeless and in a domestic violence situation as a woman and with my kids, I can tell you that shelters are only as safe as the background checks performed and the people allowed in. Unfortunately, a lot of people in shelters continue to use, drink, and engage in criminal behavior. If you're a straight person and not a felon, being in a shelter can be what I'd imagine prison to be like. I think being safe and in one's own car, tent, or RV would be a much better alternative.
@melissacarterpresley5786 Жыл бұрын
@methus57, you have clearly had a lot of practice saying things that you know are not true.
@rogerstephens8019 Жыл бұрын
Clear it out and make room for new migrants from South America !!!😮
@PapagenoMF Жыл бұрын
At least the migrants from South America aren't all mentally ill or drug addicts and will actually work for a living.
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
Portland is a sanctuary city inside of the sanctuary state of Oregon. So, "Viva los homeless illegal aliens!" 😆
@joeatunderground8714 Жыл бұрын
This reminds me of the Wack-a-mole game in that the ones popping up and getting hit are not the homeless. The ones doing the striking are government officials and the homeless. The major difference here is at the cost of millions not coins. Who is paying for all of this?
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
The root of the problem, is that Oregon is very lax on prosecuting people who use drugs in public. For that reason, Portland in particular, attracts drug addicts from all over the state and the country. Because Oregon is a sanctuary state, hordes of undocumented people have been adding to the misery created by the domestic drug addicts living on the streets for a long time.
@DerBingle110 ай бұрын
Too many people make too much money of the homeless situation. The status quo is just fine with the powers that be.
@btfup Жыл бұрын
The lady said "try not to be angry" Tina Kotek and Ted Wheeler suck.
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
At least ppl won't vote wheeler back into office
@forgottenman8629 Жыл бұрын
maybe so but before them there are Portland/Valley/State leftists who 'placed' them into office...
@geertaerts977 Жыл бұрын
Neither the city nor PBOT are interested whatsoever in moving RVs away from poor neighborhoods, because then they'll end up in rich neighborhoods where city council and PBOT executives live. If they were, they would have long ago placed concrete "Jersey" barriers in the useless blacktop next to 33rd and solved the problem instantly. All the city and PBOT want is for the RVs to continue moving from one poor street to another nearby poor street and back again. The "cleanup" is only to make it look like the city and PBOT are doing something.
@forgottenman8629 Жыл бұрын
that's exactly right, this is kinda like mandating that 'only' certain classes of folks pay taxes while others do not. When bums are 'placed' into hoods including West Hills, Lauralhurst, Alameda, and Eastamoreland -- meaning camping right smack on 'their' parking strip or sidewalk so they too can clean up daily, we 'all' will then witness the end of this plague...
@theonlychinailikeiswhite2582 Жыл бұрын
Give them a bus ticket to Washington DC
@thesecurityguardchannel Жыл бұрын
Add architecture that prevents rv’s
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
This can be solved with low income housing. The money the city is spending right now to clean up the city could instead be spent to fix up some old motels or abandoned buildings. Take a nominal feel from all low income recipients, hire a caregiver, pay for administration and upkeep, give these people some dignity. Cause what the city is doing now is not working. All the nasty judgemental comments don't help either. It's just spreading hatred.
@SonofHardrada Жыл бұрын
When 95% of them are drug addicts who have NO desire to better themselves low income housing isnt going to solve shinola. Wake up!
@ChicagoBeaver Жыл бұрын
What? Homeless people playing the victim? We'll get your life together and get off the streets. Stop whining, jeez
@ronaldnelson4370 Жыл бұрын
If you are out there down and out it will not always be like that things will start looking up eventually
@seannash46958 ай бұрын
What if you have a mailing address and your rv runs, is registered and is insured and you are licensed? Then what? Targeted anyway or will there be any kind of recognition of humanity? I myself have already gotten the old "you can't park that eyesore in my noseyhood" and quickly responded with "you can't bark that earsore at me in your noseyhood" leaving him to call the police and be gravely disappointed by the same police when they told him to mind his own business. Intolerant of intolerance? Kinda has a ring to it don't it.
@guddsitizen402411 ай бұрын
The people who live in Clark county are one phone call away from being homeless. One health care emergency from being homeless. They feel like they’re safe but the state needs your money and access to you children’s future to sustain themselves and their control on the cities they corrupt. When men create laws to benefit certain groups they will create a moral and “legal” system to support themselves
@CsJ-y6g Жыл бұрын
IMAGINE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY SPENT TO CLEAR BOTH SIDES OF 33RD, GIVEN TO THE ROADSIDE ESTATES, IN AN ATTEMPT TO BETTER EVERYBODY'S LIVES. NOT SURE WHY IT HAS TO BE AN ASSAULT. IM GUESSING ITS COSTING A LOT.
@christophermozeleski7149 Жыл бұрын
Maybe they can get there shit together and move back in with family or friends.
@capncaptain1594 Жыл бұрын
Many of them have burned their bridges with family, friends and jobs.
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
@@capncaptain1594agreed sadly
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
What is so disrespectful is your assumption that many have burned bridges and or lost the family the have due to being untrustworthy and or deceitful, but some if us were adopted and the family that brought me up kinda just wanted goodbye when I was 16 and could care less about someone who isn't there blood some times people have no one to turn to for help
@capncaptain1594 Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991 I used the word MANY. I think you assumed I used the word everyone. I am speaking from lived experience. Please read before you respond. Don't be disrespectful. Merry Christmas.
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
@@capncaptain1594 You are right I apologize I did read it as if it said everyone. However for you to make an assumption like that is unfair and categorizing. Like I said I live down here and a major issue here is mental disabilities and lack of care and or help for us all due to speculation because everyone has to have an issue with something and the way this is looking to be handled is downright disgusting and not the answer. No disrespect to you just putting my opinion out there. You have a Merry Christmas.
@ohlordy2042 Жыл бұрын
Portlanders really amuse me. That mystified look on their faces when they peer around and see what 20 years of voting for "progressive" politicians has done to their community. It's quite hilarious.
@boossersgarage3239 Жыл бұрын
sure jan.
@johngillon6969 Жыл бұрын
So blame the victims. You have no idea who this poor woman voted or here political view.
@ohlordy2042 Жыл бұрын
@@johngillon6969 90% of Portlanders have voted for self righteous, virtue signalling "compassionate progressive" local and state politicians for over 2 decades now. That is undeniable. So, my chances of being wrong about this "victim" are pretty low. I'm prepared to apologise, and empathise, if she is a genuine victim. That is, one of the handful who have consistently voted for sensible moderate politicians over the last 20 years. I'll remain amused until proven otherwise.
@johngillon6969 Жыл бұрын
Sheer baloney so you are talking out your A** now. no election has ever won by 90%. think you might try a little to stop being such a rabbid hater.@@ohlordy2042
@SonofHardrada Жыл бұрын
They arent very bright.
@LordLoMR211 ай бұрын
I went to highschool with the second guy they interviewed. He was always doing drugs during lunch time in the back of the school with stoners. 😂
@maestrovso9 ай бұрын
Measure 110 made it the city of paradise for him. Undoing it will have zero impact as they created all these hopeless hard drug junkies. These can't live by any rules or social norms, let alone holding a job.
@josephtrudel1816 Жыл бұрын
Love to see portland getting the just rewards of being a sanctuary 'city'
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
Yeah, they're also feeling the effects of allowing public drug use. You let people shoot up and smoke hard drugs wherever they feel like it. Then hordes of homeless illegal aliens turn to drugs when they figure out that they can't make it in America. What could possibly go wrong?
@jesushappy692 Жыл бұрын
Drugs.
@rahulbosebose1 Жыл бұрын
Where they should go? Is that a mystery? Should go to where they belong jail.
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
This right here is the absolute prime example of what's wrong with this situation, u are criminalizing us for being homeless!?! So because I'm not as fortunate as some and have had lots of different events in my Life that left me alone and somewhere I don't know many. I belong in jail cause I don't have anywhere to go huh? You would rather pay yo house me in jail, instead of taking that money and helping with low to no income housing! I mean how bad is it to offer a helping hand in lou of criticism and or assuming we are all bad people! This isn't the answer!
@rahulbosebose1 Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991 Being homeless is not a crime.. abusing public parks and walkways making them dangerous for public use .. and doing drugs all day is criminal. And such junkie criminals need to be prosecuted to give them tax paid free housing in jail.
@SonofHardrada Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991 The problem is that the 95% who are p.o.s. drug addicts whi are robbing us blind screw it up for the rest of you.
@joeatunderground8714 Жыл бұрын
I asked my youngest daughter, “If you had a magic wand, how would you fix this?” She replied after some thought, “I have no idea.” What does that ………imply ?
@witchywoman7311 Жыл бұрын
Do something different this time, clearing them without a plan is insanity. Just doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is insane. Get some apartments ready first.
@PapagenoMF Жыл бұрын
Maybe they'll just move back to California?
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
Portland's homeless problem has been building up for decades, in large part because they are a drug-friendly city that allows people to get high in public. Even though Portland recently changed their ordinance allowing people to use hard drugs wherever they want to, it is too late for law enforcement to deter or reduce the problem. Portland and Multnomah County will be stuck with this homeless problem for decades to come. You cannot be "that permissive" of open-air drug use for such a long time, attracting hordes of drug addicts from all over the country, and then expect to be able to get thousands of drug addicted vagrants clean. It doesn't work that way. A word to the wise.
@launanisbett1051 Жыл бұрын
This is the true Issue Making me so Upset I was HOMELESS 5 yrs!!! Never once did I leave trash, or needles, or stay up all night, and blast music and Blow up propane tanks !!! I had my Dog and we picked up after myself Everytime I used anything with trash not only that I picked up other people's trash too cuz I believed and still do in leaving this world better then I even found it ❤🙏❤🌍❤ I even got sober on the streets hardest thing iv ever done and once I lost my precious dog I went to shelters and into programs that help you if you are sober i was sober last 2 yrs of being out there and i just want fo help anyone i can , but these drugs out there now afe so much worse and destroying there minds even worse but i still go out once. Week with my church just to love on the homeless and help with resources and food and just know they are loved and there is hope❤ but I will not stand here and see how bad they are treating this earth with all the trash is mind-blowing i never thought this was possible 😢 if they cared one bit about having a place to park or tent spot they would clean up and be quiet at night time i mean seriously just those 2 things alone would of changed everything people yelled at me and didn't even let me insist just because i was homeless i cleaned and did everything to not effect any one but those people dont care and dont appriciate or be thankful for anything and the trash ill be there after helping clean up too cuz its so wrong to do what they have done i can't feel bad for them anymore i had none of what they have but i was better to this world and it was no ones fault either not those precious neibors this woman deserves peace ill help fight to give it back to here i dont fight for people doing these horrible things to eveeyone else its so wrong prayers up for them but its there own responsibility to pick up trash and give darn respect its awfull so good luck
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
See this is another post that tries to put all us homeless in the same hate category, i live here on 33rd and i dont have garbage all over my spot, nor do i leave needles blast music at night and or start fires, but im sure you all heard but didnt listen when they said that the reason people are downhere is because the city decided this was the best place for us homeless and now they wanna just sweep thru and take everything! i mean i been here almost 2 years... but we arent all crazy doped up messy firestarters some of us are just people who have let the hard times take a tole on them....
@htas6888 Жыл бұрын
What do you think that city, county, state, federal government should do to eliminate homelessness and people living on the streets in terrible conditions?
@htas6888 Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991 it seems that there is help available, what do you think people like you need to get off the streets and stay off the streets?
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
@@htas6888 honestly I'm not in politics and my opinion on what government should do is help people when the fall so we can ride up together and be stronger idk. People think a handout isnt something that helps people but if your on the other side of the hand out... It can be life saving...
@fredrickriffel5845 Жыл бұрын
Come to Bloomington Indiana they have everything you would want. Free stuff
@spankyssurprise1361 Жыл бұрын
Bloomington is becoming a cesspool.
@johnoliverio8729 Жыл бұрын
@@spankyssurprise1361 Perfect!
@rogerstephens8019 Жыл бұрын
I happen to know that CHICAGO is in bad,bad,bad, need of homeless and illegals ! They are building tent cities there for anybody, yes that is right ,ANYBODY !! DON'T BELIEVE ME ?? Watch TV !!!!😅
@Scorch102811 ай бұрын
Drug addiction leads to homelessness. Don't use drugs.
@dolores2318 Жыл бұрын
Get a job
@DerekJensen-m3q Жыл бұрын
Lower housing prices and people will be able to find a home but that will never happen when you make 20 something an hour and all your money goes to bills and taxes
@greybeard3368 Жыл бұрын
Most aren’t willing to work, even for $20 per hour and lower house prices. They’d rather do drugs.
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
Then get a roommate like I had to when I moved to a new city
@PapagenoMF Жыл бұрын
That one dude looks like a normal size Peter Dinklage.
@amybaby04 Жыл бұрын
You get what YOU vote for. 🤔
@moss787 Жыл бұрын
Did you vote for making corporations richer? I bet you did there, kiddo.
@PapagenoMF Жыл бұрын
Trump never solved it.
@dons3073 Жыл бұрын
No man stay away from delta park
@pondmaker Жыл бұрын
Drugs are the problem...
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
As a 33rd homeless resident, i myself HAVE NOT been offered any type of help nor alternative! Some people dont have anyone... and things are hard on your own, but why would they want to take what little we have at a time of year like this it could be deadly. Sometimes people should offer a hand rather than an opinion i believe! We'd be a much stronger existense together!
@maxmotors9497 Жыл бұрын
You’re not a resident.
@maxmotors9497 Жыл бұрын
You require a legal address for that. Figure it out. Why are you there? That’s what you need to answer.
@orbscorbs Жыл бұрын
The homeless inflict themselves upon us. They want everything given to them; they work for nothing. The majority of homeless are addicts. You don't "help" them by enabling their addiction.
@amber190 Жыл бұрын
I hope you weren’t for the idiots that are running our country now and who would rather leave us homeless and house all the illegals coming into our country who should be shipped right back out
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
Many people are just mean and uncaring. My how their opinion would change if suddenly they became homeless.
@dons3073 Жыл бұрын
Why lie it’s a sin
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
Go to a shelter or tiny home
@i_luv_hecklefish Жыл бұрын
Yes, they do have to go somewhere. ❤
@lisahorstman1797 Жыл бұрын
So sad that folks have to put up with this crap!😢
@U.s-epa Жыл бұрын
Honesty don't care. Time to leave, forcefully if needed.
@ENScottish Жыл бұрын
Hope they'll have a place to go. Can't government open one of the national parks for them to survive?
@spankyssurprise1361 Жыл бұрын
Yeah that's it...we all want our national parks covered in trash and human waste.
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
Hell no
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
I live here on 33rd and i dont have garbage all over my spot, nor do i leave needles blast music at night and or start fires, but im sure you all heard but didnt listen when they said that the reason people are downhere is because the city decided this was the best place for us homeless and now they wanna just sweep thru and take everything! i mean i been here almost 2 years... but we arent all crazy doped up messy firestarters some of us are just people who have let the hard times take a tole on them....
@seric4546 Жыл бұрын
Almost two years of living on the streets is enough. Time to get your act together.
@scottpeterson1991 Жыл бұрын
@@seric4546 My act is surely together I assure you but because I have no job because I haven't any transportation, and I haven't any family to help me it's me my girl and or two dogs. We struggle... sometimes q telling hand does more than a criticising one! Be helpful not judgemental
@seric4546 Жыл бұрын
@@scottpeterson1991 Oh, I'm helpful but mostly to family and friends in the Philippines. Who don't have the opportunities available in this country. Millions of people are entering into this country with absolutely nothing, and they are going to pass you by. Once again I hope you get your act together.
@zsdollhaus3 ай бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIWZnYOlos9rjpI
@may-beeart7930 Жыл бұрын
You know what??? Billions and billions gone to Ukraine. A shame
@lucavenaugh1740 Жыл бұрын
I’m sorry for this woman’s discomfort, but it pales in comparison to the discomfort of those without homes. Imagine that you have no bed, no bathroom, no kitchen, and no way to stay warm in the winter. What would you do? Don’t get mad at the homeless. Get mad at the politicians who failed to plan for low-cost housing, thus creating this horrendous problem.
@TheAerialgreen Жыл бұрын
If you truly embrace altruism, why not consider opening your home to homeless individuals, allowing them access to your kitchen, bathroom, and bed?
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
I'd sleep In my car
@SonofHardrada Жыл бұрын
Imagine youre a drug addict who has been offered every opportunity to improve your life and instead you choose being a drug addicted criminal on Portlands streets because the bleeding hearts make it so easy to be a loser why would you ever clean up? Thats over 80% of them.
@TheJhndarwin Жыл бұрын
Well i will be the first to admit i made a mistake voting for trump in 2016 but if i would’ve known he was going to destroy our country I promise i wouldn’t have cast that vote. For that i apologize. So 2020 I vote Biden thinking he will fix it but after taking several readings i find i was wrong once again, for that vote i apologize as well as for 2024 my voting days are over, i am taking George Carlins advice and staying home. At least i will have something to show for it this time. Good luck all
@thefelonattorney Жыл бұрын
You didn’t vote for Trump. So stop lying dude
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
Hahahaha. I feel the same.
@seric4546 Жыл бұрын
The trump years were actually quite good. It was the democrats constant temper tantrums and insanely idiotic conspiracy theories that made those years of bummer. Now democrats run everything and the country is learning the hard way that Americans come dead last when they elect anti-American globalist elites.
@nicholasthompson7690 Жыл бұрын
@@seric4546he was a damn joke
@seric4546 Жыл бұрын
@@nicholasthompson7690 Or so you were told.
@fredrickriffel5845 Жыл бұрын
Biden is here for you
@PapagenoMF Жыл бұрын
Trump never did anything about it either.
@jefferystephen-ud7id Жыл бұрын
I hear California is warm this time of year.
@johnlerner5346 Жыл бұрын
Is that Alec Baldwin?
@tinyjones8454 Жыл бұрын
Get what u vote for
@karlabritfeld7104 Жыл бұрын
What did your vote for Trump get you??
@seric4546 Жыл бұрын
@karlabritfeld7104 Peace and prosperity, As well as four years of childish temper tantrums from those who hated every minute of it.