Why I no longer use a VPN (most of the time) and nor should you

[@kkiwirocks]

Mullvad being raided by Swedish and German intelligence services and them finding absolutely nothing was the best advertising they could've asked for.

[@HE-162]

Yep. I was team Mullvad long before the raid, and that was the icing on the cake

[@kornelobajdin5889]

I just bought it last week after the raid. Speeds depend from server to server. But payment is easy and quick. 5e a month. At least I know its private activity. Which is reassuring.

[@Lawliet734]

"Mullvad being raded [raided]..."

[@justanormalguy144]

Yeah, but can you 100% trust what they say?

[@kkiwirocks]

@@Lawliet734 thank you for the thoughtful contribution. fixed.

[@PhaseControlDNB]

Tom Scott did very good video on this topic. The funny thing was that the video was supposed to be a sponsored video by a VPN provider but since it was way too honest, the advertisers kept asking for changes and he ended up refusing to work with them. He then published the entire video without cuts (of course censoring it when he mentions the name of the VPN).

[@Befevered]

That was a great video!

[@enbycharlie6287]

Gay pirate assasins

[@Dodi-jf2jj]

@@enbycharlie6287 is that what gpa stands for?

[@RafaelMunizYT]

@@Dodi-jf2jj gorilla pounding ass

[@siringc]

@@Dodi-jf2jj yes

[@TheUberKevlar]

This is not why you shouldn't use a VPN but it's why you need to research the VPN that you do use, understand what a VPN actually does and when and how it is useful, what it can and can't do, and use something that is recommended by Infosec and privacy experts. I use Proton because (while it may not be perfect) their companies privacy/security model and ethics are of a lot better than most others out there.

[@marinawolf]

Same here, Proton is great.

[@GoalWalker]

Which AV to use with Proton on Windows?

[@biscuit715]

I've never found a good antivirus. Ublock origin to prevent pop ups and unwanted redirects on the web, and common sense about what you download, is the best antivirus. If I have a reason to suspect a file may be dodgy I'll run malwarebytes, and delete it straight after because AV popups are just adware. @@GoalWalker

[@Taxevader-gk9ms]

using a VPN also puts you in a smaller crowd so if someone is taking data from it you're more noticeable

[@melwoods-ml7nc]

and privacy laws in switzerland, where proton is based, is one of the best.

[@KarlRock]

My dad in New Zealand asked me if he needed one… that’s when I realised their advertising had gone too far. He’s the last person who needs a VPN 😂

[@rigierish3807]

I wouldn't necessarily say most people don't need them. Having some privacy on the internet, which is and should be a major selling point of those kind of services, is beneficial to everybody. So in that regard, it's great VPNs do get some kind of attention, especially for the ones who are privacy conscious but unfortunately, the major selling point we can see in most promoting videos isn't always around that, if not ever (at least, from what I've seen so far, except on rare tech privacy oriented channels like this one).

[@johnkeo358]

Karl you don't use one while you're abroad?

[@warholinteractive1526]

Used to be the “14 prying eyes”‘coalition of mass illegal bill surveillance that corporate interests and their blatantly obvious government embedded corruption is exposing itself nowadays with everyone talking about this stuff so much, remember when this want a thing? Now look at the mess this patriot act has created, saw it coming from DAY 1 Now I think it’s called the 5 eyes, Canada, US, British, Aus, NZ and I’m sure others who try to remain unnamed like Germany among others and Japan, all spy on us and others ON BEHALF of allied nations, so Japanese are spying on Americans based out of Texas where Toyota dominates the auto market in the country, and how many other spots? BMW manufacturing in the Carolina’s etc Catching the trend? Pharma involvement, big insurance too, basically one in the same (ask a PI attorney they’ll tell you the same thing, definitely with some booze in them too)

[@juupaju889]

@@rigierish3807 I completely agree with you, Rigierish. Privacy on the internet is indeed a crucial aspect that everyone should be concerned about. Virtual Private Networks (VPNs) can play a significant role in safeguarding our online privacy by providing a secure and encrypted connection, making it harder for third parties to track our activities or collect personal information. It's encouraging to see that VPNs are gaining attention and popularity among privacy-conscious individuals. However, you raise a valid point that the marketing focus of many VPN providers may not always revolve around privacy. While some VPN companies do emphasize privacy as a selling point, others may prioritize factors such as streaming capabilities, fast speeds, or bypassing geo-restrictions in their promotional videos. It's important for users to research and choose VPN services that prioritize privacy and have a proven track record of protecting user data. As you mentioned, there are tech privacy-oriented channels and resources available that provide in-depth insights into VPNs' privacy features and recommendations. Ultimately, promoting the importance of online privacy and encouraging VPN providers to prioritize and highlight this aspect in their marketing efforts can benefit both individual users and the broader online community.

[@rigierish3807]

@@juupaju889 What I'm afraid of, and that's what I think most VPN companies realized, is that most people, even if they say they want privacy, aren't willing to do the extra work to have it, so you have to sell another thing to them that they are willing to pay for and as a secondary value, you give them privacy. But you always have to put it in the background and not as the primary selling point, which is sad because it confirms people don't put they money where their mouth is. But if that's what it takes to increase everybody's privacy, I guess I'm all for it.

[@larion2336]

I don't know what other magic people are expecting VPNs to be able to do, but for me all I want is for them to obscure ISPs I visit, protect me from legal bs when using torrents, and occasionally bypass geo blocks. For that it is very helpful. If you're the average grandma that just gets online to check her emails or something, I'd agree they are useless.

[@svicidellvma]

you clearly don't know what you're saying. "Obscures ISPs I visit". An isp is an internet service provider. Aka the people you get your internet from. Stop tryna act like you know what you're saying. A vpn doesnt protect from legal issues when torrenting. Your isp can still see the files on your hard drive and DMCA strike you. I know this for a fact because i've had emails from my ISP.

[@insquared1868]

it's a free packtloss removal when u have bad routing, truly a magical thing this vpn is xd

[@svicidellvma]

@@insquared1868 that's logically flawed.

[@RoyalFizzbin]

I think they are decent when hopping onto the hotel Wi-Fi. People in my experience are WAY too comfortable with open Wi-Fi networks. They don’t see them as the minefield that they so often are… or can be. So for that, sure. A VPN is good.

[@larion2336]

@@RoyalFizzbin Yeah, that too.

[@cenewton3221]

There is no such thing as complete privacy nor is there complete security when connecting to the public network. I use a VPN much of the time with the understanding that I'm trusting my provider to do what they say. I recognize trusts are broken sometimes. Still, for the most part, I'll rate my privacy as being much better with the VPN than without, even if it isn't 100%. I equate it to why we lock our doors at night. Clearly a skilled & determined thief/criminal could make it into someone's house if they are determined enough. At the very least though, it's about keeping honest people honest. Not much we can do about everyone else other than remaining aware, observant & diligent.

[@panama2468]

Absolutely well said 👌🏽

[@delanescott7872]

this is such thing as complete privacy thats why the dark web exist. take a wild guess who invented the dark web? yup the govt. they knew that was the only way to have privacy is to take the digital back roads.

[@jensv874]

Using your own DNS server, HTTPS, and proxy hopping (or a VPN) together creates a robust privacy setup. Each method covers different aspects of your online activity, from DNS queries to web content and IP address masking, providing comprehensive protection against tracking by your ISP or other entities. For even more anonymity, consider using Tor or adding multiple layers of proxies/VPNs.

[@taetrrtot6205]

​@@jensv874 would you mind explaining what each of these are?

[@I_Evo]

Lets be honest, VPNs are being sold to us in advertisements as security/privacy applications because the real reason most people I suspect use them, to get around geo restrictions, is probably not seen as a good corporate look for these companies.

[@georgekerscher5355]

​@@Unknown_Genius It probably has to do with there being no specific law/restriction against lying; considering it's not as though the United States has the most robust laws when it comes to the Internet.

[@wininets]

Most vpn traffic is abusive traffic, not human or legit traffic, and increasing its getting blocked. Nord is owned by bunch of criminals, with foreign government connections. If they force their DNS then are monitoring everything.

[@DDoubleEDouble]

@@georgekerscher5355 In most developed countries (and many many other countries, too!) there are definitely specific laws that make lying about a product or the capabilities of a product illegal. This is particularly true when it comes to food products (eg. lying about the ingredients in a product etc) or building materials (eg. lying about the make-up or strength/grade of a product). This type of law is pretty standard to all products sold in shops or online stores.

[@DDoubleEDouble]

@@Unknown_Genius Yup, you’re totally right about the law not having caught up yet. Part of the problem is that the general public are unaware at the untruthful advertising and so a big enough fuss hasn’t been made yet. Once this happens, the issue will start to be taken more seriously. Another part is that these companies aren’t fully lying, they’re telling half-truths (whilst also using clever wording/phrasing.) This is currently allowing them to use specific loopholes in the law (at least in the UK/EU, I’m not 100% that this is fully the case legally in other countries as they have different laws)

[@I.____.....__...__]

The worst part is that the VPNs KNOW that bypassing geo-fencing (in any way) is specifically against the TOS of pretty much EVERY site and service and grounds for suspension, yet they still tout it as a main-selling point, knowing that it's going to hurt the people they're trying to convert to customers. 🤦 Also, do they think Netflix, Disney, etc. are going to just sit around while VPNs help and encourage people to break their TOS, often naming them specifically? 🤨

[@xntumrfo9ivrnwf]

Mullvad was recently raided and from memory, the cops basically walked away empty handed because Mullvad really did store nothing

[@alihorda]

Or they paid the police and they walked away 😅

[@EnderElohim]

@@alihorda if they able to paid the police to make them walk away well more power to them XD

[@fitybux4664]

Is there a way to know that the cops don't plant some employee there that installs some software onto their server to record things that shouldn't be recorded by a VPN provider? (Correlating IP to traffic.) Any VPN provider can have this happen at any time.

[@alihorda]

@@fitybux4664 I don't think they have the resource or motivation to do that. All vpn companies sell our data to gain profit, without exception, they are just not that open about it. Whether you trust your isp provider or a vpn company is up to you

[@lokelaufeyson9931]

@Trump Is The Messiah mullvad is a swedish company, its not a corrupt and ugly american company. Its a major difference between the 2. Your name tell me that you wont listen so i wish you a good day.

[@lanzer22]

Network engineer since 97. I used VPN when I wanted to spoof my IP for pretending to be in another country so I can download some foreign apps. There’s so little security benefits that it doesn’t justify for the performance hit at all. The web is safer than you think, and the best security is to learn about the best practices you can do for yourself rather than to rely on one company to somehow do it all for you. Using a password manager for example. VPN doesn’t handle anything when some company gets hacked and your password is now shared with thousands of hackers.

[@HomelessShoe]

When it comes to security, you're totally right, but that is not the problem. Some people value privacy, you know. I personally don´t trust vpn services, so I run Wireguard on a raspberry pi with a 4G(I use cash prepaid)/Wifi router (I can turn on Tor mode if I want) attached which can be easily (re)deployed anywhere. You can stack it with multiple layers, but it is obviously more expensive and it doesn´t do much good in speed performance xd. I also make often use of TOR (slow af though) on my devices and virtual machines (and that sort of sandboxing tactics), redirecting my normal phone calls via VOIP, using two phone numbers to prevent contact tracing (one for internet use such as 2FA and one for my social circle), I make use of degoogled smartphones (at the moment Graphene OS ), using open source Password mananger and so on (you get the idea).

[@leenevin8451]

What if a government agency request data from your isp?

[@jimbojumbo-os1np]

The web is safer than you think is a dangerous mindset and exactly the thinking thats causing the massive climb in scams and hacks particularly with the elderly and genz. At least with a vpn you get security against doxing and reduced isp spying, which is important in any country located in the 14 eyes. A password manager is a single point of failure and worse than just excrypting a txt doc given they arent vulnerable to javascript exploints as some password manager enjoyers found out last year. Best place for passwords is the way we did it in the 90s and thats on a piece of paper and changed semi regularly regardless of if theres any reason to suspect a leak.

[@Metoo-c6g]

problem with simple address's is its ona known routing table... and those who know how to manipulate it have never needed a company to do it for you. perhaps learning some basic hacking methods would surprise most engineers. :-)

[@l30n.marin3r0]

What if for whatever reason I want to tunnel traffic for several users on the same server through different IPS? Sure, the internet is safe, the world is a very safe place if you just stay at home and never go out. You will also never fail if you never try! Why would I want to do that? Because I want to, because I have a computer and I like messing around with it and it's very interesting to know all the things that one can do with it instead of just clicking the screen and rot away watching shorts or instagram reels

[@hakonsoreide]

The reason Nord VPN is everywhere is not because they're necessarily the best at being a VPN, but the ones that are the best at marketing and that pays the most influencers to flog their wares. I don't worry about privacy, but I've needed a VPN to watch Norwegian tv now that I live in the UK. NordVPN actually worked great for this. I had another VPN before, the name of which I can't recall now, that didn't give me enough bandwidth to watch live tv, and I think at some point it also got IP blocked by the streaming service I wanted to use. I don't have a VPN now, but I might get one again.

[@nemtudom5074]

Its not even that they are good at this, just that they spend obscene amounts of money on paying any and all influencers. 'best' hardly matters when literally everyone is telling people to use your services.

[@JamesScholes]

You don't even need to pay for a VPN. There's literally dozens of VPNs you can use for free in the Chrome Extension store.

[@lakedawg2462]

The fact the used Mark Rober is a huge red flag in my opinion, he is the next generation of Bill gates (Population Control Activist)

[@flagmichael]

I have Nord VPN because I tried it on a YT deal through one of my most trusted creators and found it to be easy, convenient, and affordable. After 34 years in IT Field Support for a Fortune 100 company I wouldn't connect without a VPN. Even in our own homes we are subject to sniffers in cars driving by or parking nearby.

[@nemtudom5074]

@@flagmichaelAnd yet you're using a service that spies on you. Nord and the like are not to be trusted.

[@jamindavey]

For Australian users: All ISPs are required by law to track every website you visit, maintain the data for 2 years, and hand that information over to any government agency that requests it without informing users about the request. VPNs are not obliged to do this. Even if they were pressured by the government to hand over data which they say they don’t have, they would not be legally obliged to remain silent about it by Australian law. Additionally, if an Australian is accessing US servers the additional latency from using a VPN isn’t noticiable compared to the trans Atlantic lag.

[@nehpranatospsy5668]

wow thats dystopian, but prop the same as in us

[@Jidarious]

It isn't. In the US ISPs are not required to log anything at all. Whether they do or not is mostly a financial decision. Large ISPs that exploit your data and use it in some way probably log it, and smaller ISPs that wouldn't see much of a monetary benefit from logging your data probably do not. In every case ISPs in the US do not have to supply information to the government without a subpeona and they typically wont. That said there have been cases in the past of ISPs allowing surveillance (infamously AT&T let the NSA monitor most of their data). Source: Network architect at an ISP, 20+ years in the business.

[@nehpranatospsy5668]

@@Jidarious I respect that. May I ask you what you think about whonix and tails? What do you think is the safest and anonymous way to surf normal and dark web?

[@PeterKnagge]

lol, my comment got auto-deleted about that big brother is watching & censoring the entire world, including you. The ironry...

[@PeterKnagge]

Release Julian Assange. Totally innocent & held under authoritarian false pretences. Wait until the little green men come for you.

[@mark99k]

Like many others, I was talked into using VPN and still do, but the ridiculously obnoxious scare tactics in VPN marketing is souring me on the whole thing. It's reminiscent of antivirus offerings in the infancy of the consumer-level Internet (1990s), where you'd hear nothing from the AV all year until a week before your renewal, when it would suddenly, but consistently (and loudly), claim to have stopped a serious threat.

[@activ8me3]

Fully agree. Very unpleasant. Antivirus offerings are still the same (mostly lies) as in the 1990s though. And VPN companies are in majority conducting their business in a shady way.

[@dm5129]

I used to have VPN service. But I am not so sure it is the best option anymore.

[@Wolf-ln1ml]

As much as I love KZbinrs being able to get some support from companies, I don't think I've ever seen/heard _one_ ad that didn't at least massively overstate the usefulness of whatever was being advertised (up to being ads for outright scams like that Scottish Lord/Lady title thing...) Frankly, by now, I see such ads as a _warning_ to _at best_ look into other products of the same type, but to stay away from that company...

[@grumpy-dad3701]

When you are getting paid a shit ton of money. These influencers will sell out in an instant.

[@supremelordoftheuniverse5449]

Raycon earphones is one of them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6rdfoabq9WHaKs

[@janthran]

i bought a pair of sennheiser earbuds for cheaper than a pair of raycons.

[@kelseybrexit5224]

Especially if it’s a known scam. So many KZbinrs I stopped watching because cmon! You expect me to believe a 3 million followed channel not knowing they’re advertising a blatant lie 😑

[@MemTMCR]

​@@janthran damn. normal price or sale?

[@natec1]

Yep. For the average user, these commercial VPNs really don't offer much of anything other than a bit of added latency lol. They're good for accessing geo-restricted stuff and that's about it. I use a VPN to access my home network and I use a certain no-logs service for when I need a random IP. That's what I use them for, and that's way more than the average internet user needs.

[@jayspeidell]

It's basically a subscription fee for The Pirate Bay.

[@redpilljesus]

Surfshark hides KZbin traffic from Cricket so I can watch in 4K when it normally throttles me.

[@brentsummers7377]

Sites such as CNN Go will give an 11 minute preview of their service if they think you are based in the USA. And I think a lot of the BBC is blocked unless you have a UK IP.

[@d_trich]

@@jayspeidell if you're torrenting without one, every other peer will see your IP address. That means a company can harvest them easily and publicly.

[@josiahbrown7258]

Yeah I never got everyone advertising the privacy that hard. It's possible that a given vpn is private but again that is based on the customer trusting them to not access their data. They are preying on people who don't understand how the internet works. If you want to access region blocked content or similarly subvert the internet, sure. That's what I pay for. But otherwise using a vpn fulltime is rough. The latency can be unusable and I have tried many different ones with similar issues. I just cringe when even big tech youtubers have these ads advertising security and privacy...

[@rudiservo]

I think the worst threat to security is mobile devices connection to a "free wifi" or 4G, because the router is the phone, hopefully a self hosted full route VPN will protect a mobile device, a lot depends on what you have (IDS/IPS NGFW), but I think it does provide at least some level of protection, hopefully from zero day issues.

[@deersakamoto2167]

Tom Scott did a good video (with lots of views) explaining why the messaging around VPN companies (and "influencers" like Mark Rober parroting them) are incorrect/misleading

[@toetertijd]

After that video many VPN companies changed their ad reads because they were even more misleading then they are now.

[@justincenter4061]

The gay pirate assassin Tom Scott?

[@sudokode]

​@@justincenter4061 double scoop of vanilla Tom Scott

[@firehawk128]

Funny enough Tom eventually did a VPN ad. I can't remember for which company though, but it was a "I was away from England and used a VPN to get access to something" use case.

[@Andruspl]

@@firehawk128 I also remember Tom explicitly stating "Nord never suffered a data breach", which is technically true, but they did have a major security breach... and didn't tell anyone for 10 months in hopes of sweeping the whole thing under the rug. Definitely not the industry standard, and very bad look for the company.

[@rationalbushcraft]

You don't need cookies to be identifiable. There are browser fingerprinting techniques that looks at other things to identify you.

[@rizean2]

Saved me from having to add this. To be clear vpns don't stop finger printing.

[@Hasblock]

@@rizean2 I mean, it's better than having your browser finger print you AND having cookies

[@griffydz1789]

Add to that 0 day vulnerabilities on hardware maybe?

[@LeifNelandDk]

@@Hasblock vpn does not block cookies by itself.

[@mikaelhellsen4454]

How do I obtain this fingerprint as a webserver?

[@coolorphans]

3:28 "There's no way for a website to know it's you if you clear your cookies" lmao

[@Disaster3nby]

why

[@_clownworld]

@@Disaster3nby fingerprint

[@thelasttellurian]

I think of this like this: In order to connect to the internet I have to either trust my ISP company or a VPN company (because if you use a VPN and SDNS all your ISP knows is that you use a VPN). Now there is a risk with the VPN I have researched for days and many security sites agree that it can be trusted - is, in fact, a government honeypot that is used by millions for the last decade and has not been caught. On the other hand, I know for a fact my ISP shares all of my data with my government, no court order is needed. So I choose to use VPN because then they have to work with the court of another country in order to get my data which requires too much effort from them. It's not perfect or riskless - there is no such thing as living risk-free - but it's the lowest-hanging fruit theory - unless they have a strong suspicion of something very bad, they will not go through the trouble and risk burning forever this VPN in my country.

[@tumultoustortellini]

@Trump Is The Messiah Who said he's breaking the law? If privacy is such a bad thing to want, give me your credit card number, date, funny numbers on back, and your ssn. Bet you won't

[@misakamikoto8785]

Or just use a work computer at work and log in as a local account...

[@majorgnu]

As if the law, as it is currently written and interpreted, is the only thing you have to worry about. Data lingers with changing laws and regimes, and not all such changes may have qualms about persecution of people for previously legal things. You think a newly installed neonazi regime would hesitate to use data collected by the previous regime in a persecution of their scapegoat minority of choice?

[@asdfssdfghgdfy5940]

@Trump Is The Messiah Once when I was contesting something with my network provider (Optus lol), the person said, out loud, on speakerphone while I was in public, my phub search history and how disgusting it was. That was enough reason for me to use a VPN.

[@MoosyPineappleMan]

@@asdfssdfghgdfy5940 The Australian telecom experience in a nutshell.

[@darpmosh6601]

The people in countries that ban websites for political reasons will and always will use a VPN to get past these unfair restrictions. It is an overstatement to say "nor should you". The people of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, China, South Korea, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Kazakhstan, Iran all need to use VPNs to get to the free internet.

[@sucyshi]

They have to be drastic to get views, but those people probably make up less than 0.1% of this videos views. Also, I've been to a few of those countries, and as a tourist I ran into none of the restrictions; only some American shopping websites themselves blocked me (ie. Target's website). And I didn't want to be in these countries so I was basically browsing the internet the whole time. If a tourist isn't going to run into these blocks even when googling why certain aspects of the country is shit, then the average citizen probably will not, and the ones who need the VPN will _know_ why they need it.

[@darpmosh6601]

@@sucyshi UAE, China, and Turkmenistan are very drastic. You can't even browse Google and KZbin and basically many Western websites in China. UAE is a Muslim country, so they will be banning stuff. Turkmenistan is basically the North Korea of the Middle East.

[@michaelbarrett7327]

You forgot Canada. I can't even link local or global news on Facebook, and worse is on the way due to frightening new legislation that really puts no limits on censorship and media restriction.

[@aaronchrusniak1169]

South Korea?

[@darpmosh6601]

​@@aaronchrusniak1169 Yeah. Apparently the SK government bans some websites.

[@Scriptッ]

8:35. Thats where the answer is. Once again, thank you SponsorBlock

[@AidenRKrone]

The only time I've ever legitimately needed the services of a VPN was in 2020 when I was torrenting literally thousands upon thousands of gigabytes worth of movies and video games for my home multimedia setup. If I hadn't used a VPN for that, I'm sure I would've been slapped with dozens of copyright violation notices by my ISP.

[@omahanprabla3058]

I thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[@Wabbelpaddel]

Lol. I do it to keep myself safe from salty islamists who could live kilometers from me inside my region and perform machete acrobatics.

[@ChrisGoldie]

This is why im getting a vpn. I have a few things i cant even find on the internet anymore from my heavy torrenting days. Perseveration is a must at these times

[@hydra70]

This is one of the biggest use cases for a VPN, but obviously VPN providers aren't going to advertise it.

[@jasonsmall5602]

I wouldn't call that "legitimate"

[@Leo-sd3jt]

One of the worst things about NordVPN is that when you're using it on your PC, it opens up your browser to login. Thus if you have your browser set to remember open pages then NordVPN's client launching the browser will send traffic through a public network before you even get a chance to sign in. And speaking of China and other places that might be blocking VPNs, the fact that you have to use a browser to go to their web page to login is insane since it allows for access to be blocked by blocking the login page. A while ago there was another vpn company called ProXPN. It would login into the vpn via its vpn client but then the vpn client would reach out to the company domain to download a list of server IPs over an http connection. It was so badly designed. And the worst part is that it would clear out the existing list before any new connection so if the domain was blocked on your current network then it would just not work. It's weird how bad the vpn companies think the whole thing through.

[@hivemind514]

while nordvpn site is blocked in russia, and pretty much non of their vpn servers ended up working for me after february 2022, i can confirm that login page still works since i continue to use nordpass

[@tptwk]

I'm traveling to Europe next month and thought a VPN would be a good idea after so many travel blogs recommend a VPN. I searched youtube for Surf-shark to see how it works and noticed almost every video was practically a commercial for Surf-shark or some of the other known VPN's. There was no real peopleI just professional you-tubers. I was about to purchase the 2 year subscription, but after scrolling way way down, I found your video. Thank you for sharing this information. I will not be giving them my money at this point. Keep up the good work!

[@TravisNewton1]

I agree! I have hated these ads when they first started rolling out and even more now. They're very misleading. Especially for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. When it comes to VPNs, I roll my own. For a while, I just used a Wireguard VPN on a virtual firewall I have setup in my data center (I run a hosting company). Lately, I've started setting up a Headscale VPN (Tailscale, but the server-side component is third-party and reversed engineered Tailscale control server). So I really only use VPNs now for their intended purpose: to connect my device to a network it needs to access. I really only use the full tunneling capabilities when I'm on a network I do not trust - such as an AirBnB, hotel wifi, coffeeshop wifi, etc. And that's all you need it for.

[@resolveseed6913]

@@je4350 they have other things to do

[@JacobZigenis]

@@je4350 No part of that is illegal, what are you talking about?

[@competetodefeat4610]

Your spare bedroom does not count as a hosting company...Let me know when it dries out behind those ears son.

[@imshaunnurse]

​@@competetodefeat4610 doesn't take much to set something like that up for one device to run through

[@electricjuice5627]

Also Mark is an engineer, not an IT guy per se. I think we shouldn't expect him to know the intricate details of how a VPN actually works. I believe he was just given a sponsorship script to read.

[@Rov-Nihil]

That text he spoke is pretty much the copy paste all VPNs have for their sponsorships

[@danielyoung_]

KZbinrs have a level of responsibility to verify their claims, including in their sponsor reads.

[@Tao_Tology]

Buuuuuuulllllllshit. Rober _specifically_ sells himself as a) a smart guy b) a trained and experienced engineer c) a 'let's work out how this works' He 100% knows the flaws of vpns.

[@niqqaplz9648]

@@Tao_Tology money talks

[@Tao_Tology]

@@niqqaplz9648 'Dirty cash, I want you. Dirty cash, I need you o-ohh'

[@vital1114]

hey man just wanted to let you know, I think a lot of people click off a video whenever they hear something like "please stay to the end." that means I'm going in knowing I probably won't WANT to stay till the end, so I'm not gonna waste my time in the first place.

[@milohdd]

I've always felt that if a company (like Nord VPN) is spending all that money on marketing constant sponsor spots then its probably not investing very heavily in the product itself, just like Raycons which are actually just cheap rebranded generic earbuds at a significant markup.

[@insu_na]

To be fair: running VPN services is incredibly cheap. I want to found my own ISP, which is why I was looking into methods for raising funds, and one of the easiest ones is to start a VPN company. The operating costs are near zero, but you get a decent income with a large enough user base, and the costs don't scale linearly, they actually increase increasingly slower with every new user you gain

[@roycedot]

That makes no sense. Marketing allows more revenue which means more capital to spend on the product, team

[@valegory]

I think renting out a VPS from a trusted, privacy-centric company outside the 14 eyes and hosting your own VPN from it is the best way to be more certain of no web traffic logs being kept, since you're the one setting it up and operating it. Wolfgang's Channel has a good tutorial showing how to set this up

[@colt5189]

Can you recommend a seed box for downloading torrent files to?

[@SupernovaSpence]

@@colt5189 bruh 😂

[@jimmypatton4982]

How are you getting your traffic into your setup? This only moves the onion out one level. Presume the server your renting is in the center of FBI agency and you get the picture how hard it is to rely on single service.

[@riley3269]

No because then you are just offsetting the initial problem of an ip address being tied to you. All traffic from that address is tied to you.

[@laztheripper]

@@riley3269 Which is fine, that ip won't have the same physical location as your home and if entities start pinging that ip, or even compromise it, it doesn't affect your home connection. Plus you actually own the server you're passing all your data through, and you can implement sniffing tools to get rid of ads or use it as a firewall, or analyze traffic of different sites you go to. It being one layer is fine, just add more layers if you're that worried, or get a vps with multiple static ips. Anyway the main way sites track you is cookies and you're still sending them when using a regular vpn, so yea.

[@josiechaney9010]

You answered EVERY question I had about VPNs… but couldn’t seem to get answers-thank you!!!! 💕💕💕💕💕💕

[@bsenka]

In Canada, now that the feds have passed a new internet censorship bill, I'm never going to use the internet for anything without a VPN (I use PIA, not Nord). If nothing else, it circumvents the ever increasing instances of geolocking. I'm just not going to put up with "this content is not available in your country" or "this content requires a subscription in your country" (even though it's free everywhere else) any more.

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

Yep, C-11 is censorship on steroids. I'm sorry you now live in a totalitarian hell state. Turdo is a bastard in more ways than one.

[@RichyRich-eo9uk]

Yep, fellow Canuck here. Trudeau will not dictate to me what I can and cannot watch or throw a bunch of inferior canadian content into my algorithm.

[@GENKI_INU]

What kind of new internet censorship bill did Canada pass?

[@dfs-comedy]

@@GENKI_INU Canada did not pass an "internet censorship" bill. That's just hype from disgruntled Conservatives.

[@alextaylor8776]

@@dfs-comedy Ok there Liberal, please educate us “ conservative conspiracy theorist on the truth as your freedom loving king Trudeau sees it.

[@person880]

A major issue with not using a VPN is that your regular IP address narrows you down so close to where you live, and it changes infrequently. Every website you visit knows there are only a handful of people in the world living in that area. With a VPN, you can have a different IP address in a different location as often as you want, and tons of other people will reuse the IP address you were using, meaning each IP address is useless in any attempt to identify who the user might be. The VPN company may or may not be trying to use your data against you, but your ISP definitely is using your data against you!

[@hojo70]

I am assuming you mean "using data against you" to mean that your ISP can tracking your browsing habits and sell non-identifiable aggregated metrics to marketers. However if you meant that you were committing online crimes for which the data could be used to convict you, well, I guess you might deserve it. The latter doesn't apply to most of us so who cares.

[@zuzuspetals9281]

@@hojo70You will care one day because to our governments none of us are innocent. Eventually they will come for you too.

[@nightowl9519]

​@@hojo70Everyone commits crimes whether they know it or not, that is the whole point of having inflated law books

[@GonePh1shing]

That IP also belongs to your ISP, so if someone that had your personal details (e.g. You get doxxed) they could pretty easily launch an attack against you. This includes SIM jacking and SMS 2FA interception if your cell provider is the same as your home internet provider.

[@antuanperez426]

@@hojo70🤡

[@mindtheprivacy]

Aún, your work is so valuable in an ocean of liars, people selling for a quick buck and click baiters.

[@bobjohnbowles]

You mentioned using a VPN in China. Basically as a foreigner who wants to maintain social media contact (gmail, FaceBook, KZbin, etc) with anyone outside China it is more or less essential. Ten+ years ago I discovered the hard way that the GFWC was smart enough to detect a VPN connection and shut it down unless _you_ were smart in how you used it. I am pretty sure that given the advances in supercomputer power in China this even more the case now. Interestingly, nowadays super-cheap VPNs are available in China, but you can bet your boots they are back-doored, so it depends on your use case whether you want to risk using them.

[@I.____.....__...__]

Yup, using a VPN is literally illegal in China and the CCP can and does clamp down if they want.

[@Iceman96051]

I think TOR has always been much more recommended to use in insanely restrictive companies. Also, China forces every company they own to forfeit anything they want from a company at any time, I could guarantee those companies have all the usage stored. Like you said, it's a pretty high risk there. I think they can tell somebody is using TOR but it more becomes a question if they want to waste time to figure it out

[@harikyoki]

I was wondering if any in china are able to access content that is normally banned. or if they download/upload torrents

[@lijiang5600]

@@harikyoki I just spent 2 months there. You can access almost everything with a variety of VPNs available(Funny enough Nord is not one of them). Every government monitors internet traffic, China may be more aggressively doing so than most others, but if you're not doing/searching/spreading anything illegal, they don't really care if you use VPNs.

[@bugsygoo]

​@@harikyokiI'm watching this from China, using a VPN.

[@TophinatorStreams]

I really appreciate the nuance expressed here. Legitimate reasons to use a VPN are still respected, but going blindly in on a service I know next to nothing about VPNs other than ~~SECURITY~~ and ~~GETTING AROUND NATIONAL BANS~~, so if I got one for that reason, I'd also want to know the downsides, too. Everything has that dark-silver lining to it and you can actually sell more product this way. I think you made shopping for a VPN more effective and that's why I appreciate this video! Great work!

[@TheSkyweasel92]

One use case is to allow you to share your mobile hotspot connection unthrottled with other devices. When using VPN your usage won’t count towards your limited “hotspot data”

[@ko-Daegu]

Would u explain this more ? I didn’t fully voted who’s throttling your hotspot ?

[@PatrikKron]

On some phones the hotspot did not work when I used a vpn on the phone.

[@onebacon_]

@@ko-Daegu some carriers restrict hotspot usage (which is very stupid). When you use a VPN it "turns on" a NAT on your phone so that the carrier doesn't know of the hotspot

[@msas6020]

​@@onebacon_ I never knew that was possible. Thank you!

[@wolfsquared]

Yes, Verizon has unlimited data on phone, but hotspot is limited to plans gig limit for full speed. Then it throttles hit spot to slow speeds.

[@tobias131314]

Nice video Sun, appreciate the depth and nuance, and challenging the status quo where VPNs are so often touted as a magic cure-all with no downsides (often by ‘tech’ KZbinrs). One thing not addressed in the video is your privacy from the perspective of the individual websites that you visit (which can read your HTTPS traffic since they are the intended recipient). Without a VPN, you will usually be connecting from the same IP address (your home network), and so even when you are not logged in the website will be able to correlate all your traffic into a detailed profile about you connected to your IP address (e.g. every page you visited / search you made on the specific site). Wondering if you had any thoughts on this since the video focused on ISPs and VPNs as bad actors, but didn’t address the websites themselves. Thanks once again for the great content, need more KZbinrs getting into the finer details like this!

[@toetertijd]

Depending on if they really want to know who you are they could do browserfingerprinting which works even without your real IP address.

[@seraphina985]

The problem there is that there are a lot of ways for a website to still identify you regardless, modern browsers are extremely complex and their many features leaks a huge amount of data about both the browser and the local machine that can be used to identify it. There are browsers that are designed to make this harder but there is a limit to what you can do without actually killing the valid functionality that those functions exist to provide in the first place. Short of completely turning off all running of server provided scripts of any kind which will break basically every website there is pretty much no way to completely prevent fingerprinting. Also making browsers resistant to fingerprinting is a double edged sword since this in itself requires the browser to behave unusually and that is additional entropy that can add uniqueness to the fingerprint so it just becomes an arms race to create counters to the counters.

[@jamesready5]

This “privacy” theatre does nothing for if you go ahead and set up your PC/laptop, still on an admin profile, or your mobile device with your actual name and information. It’s the logging in with an actual identity that gets you. If they don’t actually know who it is, they can collect all the cookies, browser info, font settings, language settings, etc they want. The key is, the information big tech is collecting needs to be correlated to an actual person for the profiling and relationship mapping to work. Otherwise the data they sell to your government about “user x” is useless. That’s the end goal of privacy. To make it as if you are living life person to person, paying cash, voicing your opinions about anything, all without it being tracked and used against you.

[@seraphina985]

@@jamesready5 Depends exactly what the buyer wants, if you want to sell something or figure out the best way to manipulate voters etc the advertising profile of everyone using the internet in the target area will do the trick just fine. Not to mention of course this all assumes that you never at any point sign in to any site that is affiliated with the same ad network ever. If you have done that even once ever your fingerprint has a name pertinently attached to it too which will then be useful for more direct and manipulative interventions.

[@seraphina985]

@@jamesready5 Indeed, another area I think people fail to realise how much of a problem it could be is in say targeting a dissident group for more intensive monitoring and deanonymisation efforts. If you can identify the statistical similarities between known members of the target group you can search for similar patterns in others to flag them as a target of interest. There are ways for government entities to deanonymize a lot of things some are time consuming, expensive, or both but if you can narrow down the target pool these efforts become easier to fund. Also helps with efforts for more traditional infiltration techniques if you better know the profile of the sorts of people that these groups usually attract you can create a more effective bait persona for your infiltration agent.

[@hilohahoma4107]

Dude you are the info goat on this Sun, when you mentioned Mullvad I was like YES!!!!! Nailed it.

[@Tinisha-m4h]

100%! Mullvad, AirVPN, HoodyVPN are the only ones I would ever trust

[@111yegreS]

Sadly, in some countries, where there is a heavy government censorship or external sanctions that block some of crucial services, it is not an option to not use VPN almost all the time. And sadly it is not limited to China, that was used as an example in this video. Many countries have this issue, to lesser or bigger extent. So for millions of people using VPN is not a priviledge that will improve their privacy or something, it is a crucial part of using web. The problem with VPN ads is that they are mostly targeted at customers from the countries that are doing fine without VPN.

[@hivemind514]

The vpn providers that actually work in those restricted countries do not buy ads from popular youtubers, thats for sure. I'm not even able to pay for nord from Russia, but they do keep asking me to renew :)

[@111yegreS]

@@hivemind514 That is true! Meanwhile, Mullvad that was mentioned in the video, not only accepts crypto, but also gifted, i think, 10k free 1 year subscriptions to Russian users last year. Sadly, part of its servers are now blocked by Roscomnadzor, but only part of them :)

[@PeterLawton]

Whenever I hear of heavy censorship in a country, I think of it as an indirect admission of government failure. Such a govt is telling the public that it is doing a good job, but the reality is less in some way(s), and the govt doesn't want people to know.

[@mikehh8020]

My ISP likes to slap me on the wrist for DMCA stuff when I don't use a VPN for certain activities. They've temporarily shut my internet off multiple times. With a VPN, I haven't had that problem.

[@lokelaufeyson9931]

Dont step into the water if you dont want to get your feets wet. .. cant walk on the water like jesus did..

[@ChrisGoldie]

@@lokelaufeyson9931 downloading a video or song that is no longer available anywhere cause the company left it in the vault is not walking on water. Its damn near preservation at this point 😂

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

Yep, my ISP spies on me, so yeah I need a fucking VPN.

[@lokelaufeyson9931]

@@ChrisGoldie If they turn off the internet and look at what the customer is doing with the internet, its over the limit and far over the limit. Change ISP is my only advice. My isp dont give a f*ck what im doing with my internet when im using it daily. IDK if usa have a messed up system that allow monopoly but where i live its illegal since a few years back. We have our corrupted ISPs here aswell but their only customers is the dead generation (the elderly, the retired and the tech zombies). If you show a blatant fake lawyer paper to them they will give you that persons entire life story from birth to that day.. I dont use those trash ISPs.

[@lokelaufeyson9931]

@@ANonymous-mo6xp tell them that you look at alot of pron and you dont want them to look at your internet history. If you can you can tell them that you watch everything between mormon pron and BDSM

[@MrVvulf]

I've always viewed VPNs as just one more company keeping track of my data, and charging a fee on top of that. Tinfoil hat? Possibly, but any industry which advertises so aggressively isn't in the game for ethics and privacy. They're like bottled water. There are occasions where it makes sense (portability, convenience, surety if visiting strange area, etc.), but tap water is objectively the better option because the laws governing its quality are more strict.

[@gonzoGnostalgic]

Not if you live where I live-just in regards to the tap water thing. I buy bottled water because my town's tap water tastes like dirt. We get an annual 'Water Report' and the samples contain the maximum amount of legally allowable arsenic and lead, which tells me the numbers were fudged and they rounded down. Decaying or outdated water infrastructure all over the U.S. also leeches metals into the water, and there have been fatalities in my state due to waterborne parasites living in a city's main reservoir.

[@jamescollins8397]

Since using a VPN for general surfing, product searches & shopping, I've found that I'm am no longer getting targeted advertising; also, my search results are no longer specifically related to my search history.... for that reason alone I will stick with using a VPN.

[@Fattydeposit]

Snowden revelations also revealed that TOR users are basically put on a 'suspicious' list by the NSA too. That in itself killed my interest in using it.

[@Zeetana1]

So they succeeded in scaring you into submission/to not even try. At this point it doesn't really matter what you use, anything they don't like will put you on their list...

[@XanVicious]

@@Zeetana1 straight up lol. Real life criminals do way worse than you think, I don’t expect you to know but the drill scene in the US is a great example of cops not really caring until it’s too late. As long as you don’t move like someone like Kay Flock or King Von you should be ok.

[@LiEnby]

So what you connect over the plain internet instead? Lol

[@jacobwood7080]

Lol like your not on the list regardless

[@johnnydoe00]

I'm pretty sure they also cracked TOR, besides, anyone who asks questions is probably on a list anyways

[@kavianrowghani5085]

The random door opening at @4:05 had me thinking someone was coming into my house downstairs 😅

[@HotTakeAndy]

Haha I haven’t read any other comments mentioning that; it got me too!

[@animationmann]

NordVPN is basically using Non Informed KZbinrs for False Advertising and get away with it. Many asked me if NordVPN is worth it i personally recommended Mullvad for their Activism and NO AFFLIATES for anybody shows how good they are.

[@redpilljesus]

There's nothing wrong with affiliate marketing. ESPECIALLY when it's a quality product.

[@mikaelhellsen4454]

If your not in a dictatorship, selling drugs, or are a pedophile, you don't need a vpn

[@animationmann]

@@redpilljesus Affliate Marketing Influences the Opinion no matter what. It will influence guaranteed you saw it with all Shady Websites that do not recommend mullvad because of that.

[@redpilljesus]

@@animationmann you argue for my position No affiliates, no influence.

[@petersvideofile]

You are the first guy who I've seen actually acknowledge VPN's are a honey pot and probably quite afew have back doors for 3 letter agencies. I don't see why more people don't just spin up a VPN every time they need one using a VPS host.... As soon as your done for the day you just delete the VPS. I mean I know that the same 3 letter agencies could be running a journaling file system on the VPS hosts to keep every single file system change, but it can't be any worse than using a VPN.

[@jaydouglas8845]

The government needs more time and resources to monitor everyone on the internet and what every individual is doing. Contrary to popular belief, the only organization that conducts that kind of surveillance is the NSA, and even then, they generally have to obtain a warrant from FISA.

[@jimjimgl3]

When Mark said @1:20 "I've been using this service myself..." and "they really are the best at this..." Rober did a classic eye-contact avoidance move which makes me think he might be stretching the truth when he gave us these lines...

[@transient_]

The main reason for me to use a VPN is to circumvent geo restrictions. The problem with the VPN I'm using is that it doesn't work with all websites and it slows down the speed of my connection. So, yes, I often don't use it.

[@Wabbelpaddel]

I use it to harshly critique islam and tilt islamists really hard, even some kilometers near me. Got me countless death threats, but the VPN saved my arse. Any time I'm on YT it stays on.

[@JohnSmith-fe1id]

Not to mention many VPN companies that claim they will never sell your data end up just being bought out by larger conglomerates specifically for the data they’ve collected.

[@Woodlock970]

We have a federal agent on our hands...

[@colinmunro3158]

For people who plan to use Tor, there are a few Linux distrobutions that use Tor for all of their internet capabilities. The easiest to use is probably Tails but it's not a one size fits all scenario. Which secure Linux distrobution is the right choice largely depends on what devices you need it to work with, and your overall use case. For example, Tails is currently incompatible with Apple Silicon (ARM) based macs as well as the last few generations of Intel (x86) based macs.

[@TheChayxxx]

Alot of these issues apply to TOR as well. Its been widely known that traffic can be snooped and correlated if the bad actor knows what they are doing.

[@LeeirahBrashka]

Use a VPN is you use TOR 😂😂 any link can be a honey pot on TOR.

[@brekkoh]

fwiw brave has Tor built in

[@trappedcat3615]

​@@TheChayxxxTraffic correlation is probably not an issue for people with moderate threat levels, and it's only an issue if one leaves crumbs of personal info on low traffic sites.

[@xanatax1844]

I got a VPN once, specifically because I got a job in the Middle East, and I knew about the National Firewall situation in the country I went to. 😂 This was how I first learned about VPNs being used to “teleport” your connection to another country. VPNs are pretty great for remote-access to a secure network, (their original purpose.) “OpenVPN” is free, you can run your own! it’s top-quality security! ( not at all quick, or easy, … but it is free & open source! ) 😊

[@glenvelascomi3115]

I was expecting a more tech savvy in depth approach to the discussion. But perhaps that was just a matter of preference on my part as I was begging for more. Overall it was insightful and I did get a lot of ideas from this. Well done.

[@DalePatch]

The biggest reason to route traffic through VPN is to prevent 3rd parties from gaining info from your ISP, but best practice would be creating your own VPN server in the data center of your choice. The data center will essentially become your new ISP and still have all the same privacy issues, but hopefully the data center country and policies are better than your residential provider.

[@DalePatch]

A compromise between creating your own and using a service would be seedbox providers. They allow one click VPN creation, but are at least one step removed as a provider and have reason to encourage privacy of their users.

[@HowardCooper-z5d]

@@DalePatch really? what is seedbox and how could it allow "one click VPN creation"?

[@DalePatch]

@@HowardCooper-z5d A seedbox is a server designed to run torrent software. It downloads the files then acts as a seed reuploading them to the the torrent network. Usually the companies that specialize in seedbox hosting will also have additional apps you can install such as VPN. Many provide these through one click installations but it depends on the specific host.

[@markcleveland3790]

Doesn’t matter how secure the pipe, dns, https, etc., is if your client side applications/communication methods are back-dooring info so nsa and others can readily read anything they choose! Knowing this, it’s still a good idea to use those things as it helps to prevent casual data exposure by lesser sophisticated actors.

[@LiEnby]

yes. Tor is useless if you login to facebook . For example

[@eemeli7093]

the fed posted yall

[@damian99669]

I use a vpn on my personal phone while connected to my company's wifi (I work in remote areas with no cell coverage). They have a guest access portal, but have limited what websites you can access and could possibly also see which sites were visited. The vpn gives me access to all sites and limits the information available to my company about my usage.

[@danwake4431]

same here. work blocks video heavy sites on their guest wifi. so a vpn is a big help.

[@slycordinator]

On the possibility of a VPN being a honeypot, in early 2018, Private Internet Access (PIA) abruptly shut down and wiped their servers in South Korea because they heard from a close contact that law enforcement were going to mirror the server the next day without due process.

[@larion2336]

PIA have also been court ordered to provide logs before and had nothing to give the courts. I used to be with them for several years, but I actually swapped to NordVPN just because PIA's servers (many at least) have become so dogsh*t over the years, they also changed owners in the last few years and the new owners have an incredibly dodgy reputation for the other stuff they worked on prior, so I don't really trust them anymore.

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

Nice!! PIA is who I use.

[@slycordinator]

@@larion2336 PIA has been fast enough for what I've needed it for. Though, its American servers were a bit hit-or-miss when it comes to accessing Netflix. Sometimes had to switch servers.

[@larion2336]

@@slycordinator I'm in Australia and there was something immensely ****ed with their Sydney server which was the closest to me. I would get 350 ping all day on it, meanwhile connecting to Melbourne server (further away) I'd get like 30 ping or something (but occasionally that'd be crap too). It was laggy enough to notice when loading webpages at least. I also contacted them several times over months and explained the issue, including naming the specific hosts that had high pings, they said they'd get their engineers on it to fix it etc... and nothing ever changed. That combined with the dodgy new owners eventually scared me off, otherwise I was with PIA for a good 4 years I think. For Netflix and the like I've found both PIA and NordVPN pretty inadequate, they seem to get detected a lot. But actually not that I say that, this is another thing NordVPN did better for me; I used to get constantly hit with captchas on PIA, I think all their IPs are used by bots to spam websites or something, which is why the lag and also why you get captcha's galore. I still get them now but less so. Anyway, just my 2cents.

[@phantomlordmxvi]

So they hid the data of criminals from the government...

[@blackhawk65589]

Thank you! It's frustrating explaining this to people who don't quite understand VPNs. I'm glad you mentioned Tor. Tor, Freenet, I2P are the only "safe" ways if a user wants way more security than HTTPS

[@wakaneut]

I started using it a month ago. But not for security purposes (I know VPN isn't much about internet security). My country has just implemented major censorships. Blocked many many sites that they consider "harmful" (example, yes they think reddit is "unhealthy"). Nope, this isn't one of the easily bypassed by DNS trick. I'm never into censorship, so I started using VPN just for that. I don't even use it for "overseas Netflix" either.

[@mitchellsmith4601]

We use VPNs provided by our clients’ appliances or firewalls to work on their networks. There’s usually no reason to use VPNs while browsing websites as most websites use HTTPS these days. If I’m at a coffee shop and am concerned about security, I’ll just connect to our own company VPN and use that.

[@comedianmattrossey]

Hi Sun, Thanks for clarifying this for me. I have been seriously considering getting a VPN, but from what I could tell, it didn't seem like any of them were really anything special. When I find businesses or services that are highly advertised I begin to doubt if they really are all that or if they are hype. And if it seems that they are all hype, then its for 1 of 2 reasons, being that they are really incredible, or they are all hype. You just answered most of the questions I had.

[@BF-rn3oz]

Thank you for highlighting mulvad! I havent tried it yet. Overall, I appreciate you helping the layman cut through the sales narrative.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

I remember back in Windows 3.1 you could setup a VPN with anyone else with a phone line and modem. Why it was removed in Windows 95 and industry made VPN's a service instead of allowing people to connect with each other privately over the internet is easily answered: You control a true VPN, but with a middle man they do, and with that it is only a VN, but the P (Private) was removed from the equation and is a ruse for the most part.

[@randykitchleburger2780]

I think you would be pleased to hear about Wireguard. It is as simple to set up as 10-15 lines in the configuration of each machine. On top of improved security protocols, it supports multiple peers at once

[@danielweston9188]

The windows self VPN latency time was so large it you couldn't do anything. It was removed because the architecture could not be adapted securely.

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@@danielweston9188 Well, the Windows one wasn't the only one, and you could download others, and as for the Latency, with the current speeds of wireless... it's nowhere near as bad and there's no reason it has to have a middleman who can get their filthy hands on your data, or charge you for something you shouldn't need them for! "you couldn't do anything": Yes we could, just not fast. We used it because all we had was the phone network, and with or without VPN, so it wasn't about speed, but privacy! You could send stuff of sensitive nature encrypted from person to person, and using compressed helped a little with the speed.

[@JigmeDatse]

Very good points. There *are* use cases. Some of the ISPs are really terrible. Finding ways around these issues certainly is worth it.

[@op_snooze]

Shout out to NoScript and Giorgio Maone. This is a really nice piece of software that lets you disassemble a site's scripts one at a time and prevent ads, pixel trackers, and anything else from showing up if you don't want it to.

[@zuezsz]

Do they have a app for iPhone?

[@VictorAgredaJr]

Not to mention, Nord seems so "popular" that a number of its IP's appear to be getting flagged as suspicious. I just got blocked trying to register for a prop maker forum because I was using them. Deleted, and moving on! As you say, many of the things VPN's are supposed to be for are now less necessary than ever. But Nord's popularity (or just rampant misuse) seems to have caught up to them.

[@djinn.yoga3327]

The main reason to use a VPN is to keep your ISP out of your business. EXAMPLE: We did an experiment where we wiped a computer and a TV, connected the computer to the network- internet and searched for something on the computer (not logged into any accounts), then disconnected the computer from the network. Next, we connected the TV to the network and turned it on. The TV started showing ads that were precision related to the search that was performed on the computer. This was done 5 separate times, and all five searches were reflected in the advertisements on the TV. These two devices were not connected to the network at the same time and had zero communication with each other. Conclusion: ISP is definitely sharing your information to third parties. Advertising is really a form of hypnotic suggestion (literally) where you are being preyed upon to spend money that you would be better off not spending. At the end of the day, the main thing is to cut off the mind control... and to take control of your information no matter how insignificant it is.

[@cjalmighty]

Recently I've been thinking of using the split tunneling feature in my VPN (ProtonVPN) and changing my usage of the service. I basically login to all my personal accounts on my computer through the VPN, but then I have those same accounts on my phone without a VPN, so there's not really much point of me doing that anymore. I might put Mullvad Browser through my VPN for general web browsing and my Firefox not through it for my personal accounts. Thanks for the additional insight in this video, Sun. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Mullvad Browser by the way.

[@TotallyNotK0]

Although I agree that VPN services have some misleading advertising, and most people who just simply log on, go to some websites, log into some stuff and log off should be totally fine without a VPN, there are cases (like with me), where things like online gaming (ESPECIALLY in something like GTA) can lead to someone grabbing your IP address and finding your approximate location (or worse, attempt to DDoS/DoS you), and a VPN prevents that. Especially with competitive gaming, unfortunately there's a lot of people who are willing to commit a crime over a videogame (had some losers attempt this a couple times). VPNs cause latency and higher ping, but me personally, it's a worth it trade-off, as I do not want anyone to know my location. Again, if you don't do online gaming, if you aren't using public/unknown wifi, or if you don't mind the owners of websites/services you use being able to see your IP address and find your approximate location, then you don't have anything to worry about; really just having a secure DNS provider is what you need, and make sure you're ALWAYS using HTTPS when connecting to a website, use an adblocker, prevent/disable third-party cookies/tracking, and you're good to go.

[@osvster]

If you do not have any issue with the government or basically not a very important person (even in gaming), using VPN is just an afterthought. Your location is public but you're in cafe. And that's not your home anyway. For places like China, they actually have the resources to monitor almost any citizens. Even America don't have those resouces. The benefits of VPN being the gateway to the rest of the internet world is big that it's super worth it. But this is the thing (For America), tech companies did a better job on privacy than the rest of the industry. Heck even America, you will always get the junk mail. Johnny Harris explained about US junk mail and how US "privacy" has a loophole to literally reached you. The fact that US postal service itself sell your data (address) and no outrage so far is just appalling. For US, you just protect a wall while the other wall is already broken. Also the fact that you say that people commit DDoS on video game... I'm just what? Is it that common that you would consider VPN worth it? Is it a western thing? Like Asia never got any of those so far as I can tell.

[@TotallyNotK0]

​@@osvster > "If you do not have any issue with the government or basically not a very important person (even in gaming), using VPN is just an afterthought." I've heard that a lot, but I feel like this perspective is flawed. To someone trying to hack bank accounts, scammers trying to make some money, or other people with malicious intent, your data is worth every drop they can get, whether you're some important individual, or just some old grandma. And like I said with gaming, it is somewhat common (especially if you like to do a little trolling lmao) for someone to get really heated, and pull an epic hacker-man (script kiddie) move and try to hack you. I use Discord a lot, and OH BOY, the amount of malware, Grabify links, etc. on that platform is nuts; but to put this in the topic of VPNs here, it prevents those kinds of people from finding out where I live, my ISP, my approximate location, etc., which is all information that I hold important to protect, as I'm generally a very private person online. It protects me from DDoS attacks, too, which, at least for me, is more common than it should be. > "Your location is public but you're in cafe. And that's not your home anyway." Well, in a scenario where you are in a cafe and you're trying to use public wifi, a VPN is quite essential, because all of your traffic is visible to whoever owns the wifi. It's very common for hackers to set up a fake wifi that looks like the real deal, but when you connect, it opens up your data to be stolen; VPNs are great to prevent this. It isn't necessarily to mask your location at that point, but to prevent your traffic from being looked into. Using public wifi without a VPN leaves you open to much worse than just data collection, too. > "But this is the thing (For America), tech companies did a better job on privacy than the rest of the industry. Heck even America, you will always get the junk mail. Johnny Harris explained about US junk mail and how US "privacy" has a loophole to literally reached you. The fact that US postal service itself sell your data (address) and no outrage so far is just appalling." Yeah, the US is far from great when it comes to security or privacy. It seems like they honestly just expect private companies to do that for them. This is a pretty big issue that should be addressed, but honestly, it's probably not going to be. > "Also the fact that you say that people commit DDoS on video game... I'm just what? Is it that common that you would consider VPN worth it? Is it a western thing? Like Asia never got any of those so far as I can tell." Unfortunately that's a thing. Especially since I use Discord (filled with script kiddies and people who take videogames/online stuff WAYYYY too seriously), those people are pretty frequent (a couple times since 2021, which is my Discord's account creation year). I'm not too sure if this is a western thing or worldwide, but I can tell you that hackers are everywhere, and they'll do a LOT to get your data, no matter who you are. At the end of the day, VPNs are really dependent on your use case. For me, a VPN is essential, but to the average every-day user at home, it's not really required. At that point, a secure DNS and good firewall is what matters (both matter when using a VPN as well, just to be clear lol).

[@osvster]

​@@TotallyNotK0 Oh gosh... the fact that you took a hassle for reply with this format is quite admirable though not necessary... but I'll try to keep it simple. But it's interesting to see two cultures collide with eachother... I do get VPN only for opening banned sites since Asia is not as free as the west. poking at east society, privacy is a bit of a less of concern than the west. We took small sacrifice so that the order and harmony can be upheld. It might be privacy breach but you don't get as far as DDOS to even hacker leaking your location (I can gush about this but I'll keep it here). There's also trust in website with HTTPS, local law and etc. So primary use of VPN is not for privacy anyway... I have discord since 2018 and joined East, SEA and ofc International servers... You did said gamers can be as far as DDOS and Discord are known for gamers so that is not surprising lol. For my discord experience, Eastern community generally do not get as far as those thing mentioned. Speaking of gaming, heck the Famous South East Asia DOTA server known for being the most toxic server in the world, I haven't see much of the DDOS or those hacking account. I did talk with my friends about privacy and they don't care. There's even a joke "you want to watch p*rn aren't you?". This is why VPN is mostly an afterthought. We don't experience those hack thingy, we're gernerally not super privacy concerned people and there's already lots of safety in the sites, firewall and others. VPN is considered as another barrier from a fortress and we use it for anything but privacy.

[@TotallyNotK0]

​@@osvsterI find it very interesting how things like VPNs are used in different parts of the world. I appreciate you giving me some insight on how things are in the East in regards to VPNs.Thanks for your perspective! EDIT: "you want to watch p*rn aren't you?" lmaoo they're onto you 🤣

[@osvster]

@@TotallyNotK0 > EDIT: "you want to watch p*rn aren't you?" lmaoo they're onto you HELPPPP!!!

[@themeanmachine84]

Wait, wait, wait... Cookies are not the only way a computer can be located, there are many different ways you can find someone. Just because you connect from different spots not using VPN and clear your cookies doesn't automatically mean you can't be tracked or located. Browser data is not the only thing that is stored on servers.

[@Gehrich_]

This video taught me that I've been doing it right this whole time. HTTPS, Firefox, uBlock Origin, sometimes No-Script, an IP blocker (probably useless but comforting like a blanket in winter), and an ISP that gives no fucks about what I use my internet for unless they get slapped with a subpoena. It also reminded me that the EU is trying to be the US but openly authoritarian.

[@plutonianfairy]

Sounds like a great ISP, which one is that? Also, how do I know if my ISP is pro privacy or not?

[@lussor1]

​@@plutonianfairy you cant

[@Gehrich_]

@@plutonianfairy ATT, weirdly enough. It's not a good ISP by any means, and they aren't pro-privacy, either. They just don't want to invest into actively monitoring the users in my region.

[@zuezsz]

@@Gehrich_ it doesn’t matter where u are it’s the employee or who’s behind the monitor going through your stuff behind ATT

[@44Heisenberg44]

Nice try CIA

[@bigboots6114]

dreaming

[@thijsdeclerck5775]

Thank you for another great video, I look forward to seeing more of how you have set up your devices to strike a balance between performance usability and privacy and security

[@m4rt_]

My opinion on the subject: VPNs are not, and will never be a security product. All it does is change your endpoint, which for certain situations like bypassing geo restrictions, and bypassing the firewall at your work, it can be useful. But for privacy/security, it's not something you should use. You should rather use tools like TOR, haveibeenpwned, ublock, etc. Anything a VPN can provide security wise, you can do better for free. I would not trust a VPN company that tries to scaremonger people into buying something they don't need.

[@portman8909]

VPN just makes sure my ISP can't see my porn or other sites I'm on. It also prevents anyone from snooping what content I'm watching.

[@agamertheifsend5440]

​@@mikee2725They can, there are only a handful of VPNS that don't see your Data, all these big vpns talk the talk but theyve never walked it .

[@MrEthanhines]

I'm in Canada and I use a VPN on my Android phone to get by the geofencing imposed on some apps. However since most VPN's slow my connection down and I am using it to do the job then once the apps is "tricked" into thinking I am in the USA, I disconnect the VPN and use the local connection.

[@PelenTan]

Ok. But what if I use _two_ VPN's at once? That's twice as safe, right? I wrote that as a joke, but one of the reasons I stopped using a VPN regularly was it was causing issues when I tried to log into my company's VPN. I didn't pursue why, but I'm guessing it had to do with some of the endpoints I was coming out of being flagged.

[@FranciscoCosta]

I'm someone that uses 3. ExpressVPN for my home server, Astrill for my desktop/cellphone and I also have Tailscale for backup in all my devices (and an exit node in another country in a mini-pc server)... All of them using pihole with DNS. But I live in China... so that makes sense! ;)

[@xhanderhoek5315]

I am pretty security conscious and prefer to have my data anonymized as much as possible. My Setup: Wireguard tunnel between home Mikrotik and AWS server hosted "somewhere else" Adguard Home DNS-level add blocking for my whole home network hosted on the same instance above (DNS over HTTPS TLS with custom cert) Crowdsec blacklist server updating firewall rules on my router dynamically with a large community-owned blacklist (hosted locally) Do you think the above is adequate? Or do you have any suggestions? I would prefer not to used paid-for VPN services as their "no logging" policies are suspect

[@phototristan]

LOL

[@paulfox4636]

I hate the term "influencer" because these days its used by people that should not be allowed to breed. I get annoyed these other channels that promote products for cash, when they know that the products are sub-par. Loved this video, your message was influential in a good way. Was good to hear both sides, great content.

[@jdslipknot]

sounds like something that a fed would say.

[@harikyoki]

I recall being able to use school internet with a vpn. for the past couple of yrs, I can't use it in any fast food joint, library, or school. any money making app will also refuse to work if they detect a vpn. the average joe like me is mostly cornered to only use their home based wifi for everything. is it me or this is occurring to make it that much easier to track what we're doing? I am looking up how to do certain things now to gain more privacy. I may be getting on in yrs but I'm willing to put in the effort. any advice or suggestions are appreciated. other than that, I'll keep on researching n trying.

[@Jakdaw]

Bear in mind that with SNI the first thing your SSL/TLS connection does is agree, in plaintext, the DNS name of the thing you're connecting to. So it's not just "IPs" that your ISP can collect (and even if it was, there's not going to be too much ambiguity as to who you're talking with compared with the domain names themselves). Still completely agree that Nord or similar are adding no value though.

[@competetodefeat4610]

Domain resonlution is not immediately required and wouldn't even be preferred. And it's hard for your ISP to see what you're poking for in the DNS when you are encrypted and not using their DNS for your lookups. This video and thread is rather humorous because it's a lot of people that think they know wtf they are doing but have not the first clue...

[@LiEnby]

I wonder why not just use a hash of the domain name instead :?

[@Arma2iwillbuy]

@@LiEnby Because the server doesn't know what domain you want to connect to? Hashes can only be read in one direction. So if the server has 100 domains (e.g. cloud load balancer) it would need to validate all the available domains to see if they match with the hash and then redirect the package to where it is supposed to go or reject. That is not an overhead you want to have for every package you receive, especially at scale.

[@Arma2iwillbuy]

​@@competetodefeat4610 agreed, one of the very first video down votes ever. I can live with bad content, but this is ignorance masquerading as competence.

[@LiEnby]

​@@Arma2iwillbuym the actual site accessed is determined by the host: http header though?

[@nouche]

One thing Nord does do is block ads at DNS level, meaning ads won’t load in even for mobile device users.

[@11219tt]

But why didn't you talk about whether or not a VPN increases privacy? We understand the VPN company can collect data, but if we assume they don't, then is our data safe front the ISP or other people??? What I'm asking is, does a VPN do what it says it does?

[@sdrawkcabmodnar]

The argument around roughly 4:00 Your IP is your identifier. The large majority of individuals have what's known as a "static" ip meaning one provided for them by their ISP that does not change ever unless certain conditions are met or it is requested that the isp change it. In a lot of cases you HAVE to ask your ISP to change it This is why VPNs exist. They do not hold you to a static IP, they also change the location to any you may request on the globe giving you not one, but two extra layers of anonymity. It's far removed from the comparison of no VPN at all and it's just simple logic. Normal user; ISP - Has all their info > Static IP logging ALL traffic to one location roughly in the general area of the user> That IP carries your identity but the ISP is your identity. VPN - Has all their info (allegedly encrypted) > Dynamic IP > IP Location NOWHERE near user > VPN is technically your identity yes, but far removed and much harder to retrieve. For someone who claims to understand the dynamics of such things, you are ignoring the simplest and most reasonable argument that disassembles everything you've attempted to construct here until you can at the very least come to terms with this. Everything else is sort of ridiculous to argue, every ISP is obligated to relinquish your data with but a simple request, they don't even go near breaking laws, and they cooperate with police whenever they can. To think otherwise is a delusion, evidence is everywhere for this. Naturally any third party that is under a corporate identity is CAPABLE of being influenced by shadow entities, that doesn't make it a guarantee and im sorry but you invest far less in a vpn than you do your isp, both in data and in vulnerability. I would actually argue that a VPN is only useless for those who do not use the internet consistently or who are proficient in computers enough that they do not need to worry about such things. But for basic users who utilize wifi connections, or are otherwise not privy to such things, it is a layer of protection and comes with useful features that will make the user more secure than less and DEFINITELY avoids a lot of headaches that aspiring internet users can utilize for safety and security as well. To make it seem like users accepting sponsorships to save people money on things they arent being made to buy is kinda weird. Especially given that you claim to hold information you don't understand

[@alexcerzea]

An static IP is rare nowadays, you can check it yourself from day to day, it's always changing, that's what's called dynamic IP, yes it's still in an area that can possible track you, but dude, if you don't believe in your ISP why the hell you use their products to begin with?

[@chriswasian09]

When you paused I swear you were gonna say this video is sponsored by nordvpn 😂 overall great video.

[@hyprvoiton]

Just wanna chime in that Nord has single handedly taken care of literally ALL popups and ads I could ever possibly run into without requiring any additional extensions in all browsers I've used. Prior to using it, I would have uBlock as well as some others and I would still get popups and ads and some sites. That alone makes me want to keep using Nord.

[@smokosish]

This video had 0 reasons to not use a VPN.

[@ThuliMzolo]

Foolish human😂

[@Gambit22003]

The info on HTTPS alone was valuable to me, so your comment has been debunked and verified as 100% false.

[@russia4biden221]

Because you are too stupid to understand

[@Fronzel.Neekburm]

No, no dont listen to ppl that have been in the industry for decades. Listen to all those influencers who have absolutely no idea how a network works. And under no circumstance should you listen to this guy, you must use a VPN, ALWAYS!!!, just try it once, go on, just a little bit, it won't hurt you, all the cool kids are doing it. And Sun, stop helping these ppl, they deserve to be ripped off.

[@Lawrd.Rivguz]

00:09 “and NORD should you” what a wasted opportunity my guy

[@JeredtheShy]

There's kinda two VPN users at this point: Those who got talked into something they don't really need, and those who are wanting to pirate stuff without their ISP knowing what they're up to. Most of the loss of security is happening between you and the website you're accessing on purpose so the VPN doesn't help.

[@mementomori5580]

Well if those are your "two VPN users", you're missing out the third kind: The users who use VPN to get around region locked stuff (like on Netflix or similar). They're not pirating stuff and they didn't get "talked into something they don't really need", so this definitely is a third kind of user.

[@yakovdavidovich7943]

There's totally a third group, which are people who want to watch the Olympics without having a big-corp media contract (e.g., cable cutters).

[@lennyvlaminov9480]

​@@barongerhardtBingo!

[@silver6054]

@@mementomori5580 Well, this is sort of pirating! Most geoblocks for things like Netflix or BBC iPlayer are because of license restrictions in those areas (e.g. in country X, rights to program Y aren't owned by Netflix) so when you "move" location via a VPN, you are cheating the rightful owner. Now whether you should care is another matter!

[@El_Nicaman]

finally someone with the balls to say it the way it is.. mad respect,

[@quantumdischarge]

Thank you for the video Sun! Can you share your opinion about services like Tailscale or Zerotier where we can tunnel things like our mobile phones through our home internet connections as an exit node similar to creating our own VPN ? This seems a lot more viable nowadays where internet speeds for home is much faster and also fiber makes it symmetrical.

[@StonedNoob]

I’m quite a noob where online security and privacy is concerned. Like I have no knowledge about this field. But I just want to use a VPN so I can access content (netflix) available in different countries and open websites from other countries or book cheaper airline tickets but doing all this while being protected from being doxed or having my data leaked. What VPN would you guys recommended? I have heard PIA VPN is good. Also, is getting into using a VPN something that requires a steep learning curve? Appreciate any help. Thank you!

[@celeriumlerium8266]

I think if you're paying for one thing and need to pay for something else just to use the first thing you should re-evaluate your life. Stop burning money.

[@SamRussell]

What do you think about Proton VPN? Thank you for clearly explaining many of the issues.

[@coolerking7427]

What do you think of Trudeau's Bill C-11 and The Restrict Act in the USA.

[@nadtz]

I've pretty much always used VPN's the way they were meant to be used, to connect network A with network B. These VPN ads are doing their job though, I've had people ask me "Should I use a VPN?" so many times I don't even know.

[@TruthQuestian78]

Appreciate the video man, thanks for the maturity lesson and how to actually use these tools. I hear that question all the time, do I need a VPN? I'm in IT, and always have to explain the things you're discussing here too people seeing those ads. We're on the same page as far as VPN usage and TOR usage go. I'm a big advocate for education over any security or antivirus solutions because you don't really need them if you do it right and just be careful, spend a few extra bucks on a decent firewall that won't Bing you over yearly licensing for modular features, etc.

[@Winning113]

what's the difference between all your traffic being routed through 1 VPN provider versus your ISP? It's the same thing but at least with the VPN there is some anonymity to what you're actually doing versus your ISP seeing anything they want. Or I am missing something?

[@djdawizz]

The ISP cannot snoop the data inside of the TLS encrypted streams that most/all of your traffic are encapsulated in. You're basically repeating his point why the VPN is unnecessary. It's an added encryption layer on top of datastreams that are already encrypted.

[@annaturquoise7114]

plain ISP isn’t better than VPN: he’s offering other alternatives

[@annaturquoise7114]

you need to use add-ons or some form of DoH