Hone Your Cylinders Correctly. Enough Bogus Info!

[@chubanderson1765]

I put 8 new pistons in an LS1 with approx 40k on the block, and used 400 grit sandpaper to lightly rough up the cylinders, and I have never had rings seat in so well in any engine I have done. The engine burns virtually no oil, even better than when it was new. The reason I did that was because I didn't want to pull the engine out of the car, and it was too awkward to use a hone. You haven't lived until you know what you can get away with.

[@outlaw4972]

Bro you just gave me so much hope. I'm currently doing the same thing to 1996 Silverado with a vortex and everyone keeps saying it can't be done but I'm happy to see there's someone else that did it and had good results.. so you just sanded down the cylinder and slapped the Pistons back in?

[@chubanderson1765]

@@outlaw4972 thanks, try make somewhat circular motions with the sandpaper. The main idea is to just take the glazed or shiny surface off the cylinder. You don't need to sand too much. 400 grit sandpaper should be good. Always make sure the expander ring (the middle piece) in the oil ring is always in properly, with the ends butting up against each other, before installing the piston. They tend to jump over easily, and then there will be oil burning. Only thing, the less wear on your cylinders, the better the results. My block was low mileage, so there was no noticeable wear.

[@playsportfun3356]

LOL... let that oil filter earn its money. I love it!

[@dmur612]

(How to) hone your cylinders correctly: Bring it to a machine shop (from a guy who OWNS and RUNS a machine shop). Shocker...

[@robspear03]

Ikr.

[@bencrosbie]

This video straight up wasted my time

[@rustymustard7798]

Yeah lol, just got my Lisle 15000 and was looking for tips on what honing fluid to use. There isn't any local machine shops in my area, there was one guy with a home shop but he hasn't answered the phone in weeks.

[@limabravo6065]

Look man I know you’re trying to help but take a step back and realize that most of the people doing this and other jobs at home are doing it because they want to and enjoy it and they don’t have the money for a machine shop. So instead of telling people to just have someone else do it, why not be happy that people are still interested in doing this stuff and show them how.

[@PerformanceEngines]

But they do have the money to buy or rent a hone that is the wrong grit and wrong rings that do a half ass job. You can enjoy doing something all you like, but if you're doing it wrong then you'll be kicking your self and bringing it to a machine shop and paying twice. I REDID 100's of jobs and listened to the remorse for not bringing to me in the first place. I've said it before, if you have to watch a KZbin video to see how in many cases to hone cylinders WRONG, maybe you should think twice about building your own engine. Next thing you'll be trying to rebuild your Quadrajet carb by your self with out the right tools.LOL Yes I did own a carb shop50 years ago during the Qjet hayday. Redone 100's of Qjets LOL

[@limabravo6065]

@@PerformanceEngines / not knowing what you’re doing and screwing something up is pretty well par for the course with anything. And you do know that a hone is like $20, & an ls1 ring and bearing kit is about $70 on amazon? (Federals not Ching changs). And you’d be paying for the bearings, rings, etc... at a machine shop. Look there’s nothing wrong with having some work done, & hell I’d love to just jump onto summits website and order whatever crate motor I want but that’s not likely to happen. When I was younger I couldn’t afford body shop prices so I taught myself paint and body work, and now I can turn out a paint job as good if not better than what you’ll find coming out of most shops. Point is if people want to do something especially something with their hands then they should be encouraged and pointed towards resources (like KZbin videos) that can help them, & not discouraged by some tool saying “Just Hire Somebody”. Fail, screw up, learn, get better

[@Mystic-Matt]

Could not have said it better myself

[@jimmurphy138]

@@PerformanceEngines I think it's safe to say that anyone looking at KZbin videos on engine rebuilding fall into three groups: 1) Someone who WANTS to learn how to rebuild an engine, 2) Someone who HAS to learn how to rebuild an engine. 3) Someone who just enjoys seeing how other people do things. It would be interesting to know which one of these groups you pissed off the most by telling them they are not as smart as you and can never do what you do? As for me, I fall into all three groups, and you have hit the trifecta.

[@PerformanceEngines]

@@limabravo6065 Ya, failing and screwing up on engine rebuilds is not a good learning tool. Most people that I know personally, have done that ONE time and said enough. They now leave it to the experts. If you want to become a hobbyist engine rebuilder you need to do a lot of reading and getting schooling just like anything else. Also a lot of specialized tools. I was in the auto repair business before starting a machine shop and even doing an in frame requires equipment.

[@sonofsteve566]

most of us (men like me) are not building show cars we are just keeping our truck up and running. plus waiting weeks for machine shop is not acceptable. my grandad told me if you can't buy it it cash, or fix it yourself you don't deserve to own it. A man to the old timmers!

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

There's nothing wrong with using an expanding type hone to 'remove glaze' and minor scuffing of the cylinder and help 'faster ring seating' and 'recondition the cylinder wall'. That's what the factory manual for my 1963 Rambler American, and other manuals of the era say. They go on to say that if the cylinder is tapered in excess of .004 it should be trued (made round again) with the rigid hone. The expanding type hone only follows the surface of the bore/cyinder, so it will recondition the surface but not the shape. So with simple logic and reasoning, you can conclude that 'an expensive trip to the machine shop' is not always necessary.

[@cryangallegos]

Was going to make a similar comment. I work in aviation maintenence and even aircraft engineers have us use a flex hone in some cases (not in the engines of course). At the end of the day, specs are specs. If the walls are true and in fairly good condition, then you likely CAN get away with the diy approach vs $1000+ Obv a machine shop is preferred, but again, you're trusting that shop to do the job right as well.

[@randy1ization]

thats how it was done for 80 years.., then the ball hone was invented and now its said to be better,.,is it really, ? the goal is to keep some oil in the cylinder. what will do this better? tiny groves cut horizontally on the walls of the cylinder or vertical groves? does the crosshatching have other purposes? or did we all just jump on the ballhone bandwagon and profess that this is the best way to go.. I dont know, but the ball hones are expensive. sometimes marketing leads folks to believe they have something better when its really not. I have honed several cylinder with just a 3 stone spring hone and it always worked well. after abt 15,000 miles most of the grooves from a ball hone or tri stone will be mostly gone . older wrenches know this, but younger ones just think the ball hone has always been the standard.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@randy1ization Your right. The stone hones are much better than the ball hone. Problem is that most people in this generation don't think, they just follow.

[@randy1ization]

@@OldCrowsClassicCars yep, I can recall rebuilding an old honda single motorbike engine, and the manual instructs to roughen the cylinder up with 400 grit sandpaper.. thats it.. this millenial generation thinks that the most expensive stuff is better. they never question the WHY. or HOW.. They see some poser on a tv show who was given everything by sponsors, telling them its the best and they yank out thier credit card and order it. the crosshatch pattern makes NO sense to me. it will actually hide low spots in the cylinder because the balls arent uniform and will touch the low spots.. you could have a low spot, or taper and you wouldnt know it.. BUT HEY IT LOOKS COOL.. also an easy was for a half assed machinist to hide shitty work..

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@randy1ization couldn't agree more. And good point about the cross hatch. Some people just want to be smart asses and just over complicated things that are actually simple.

[@John-nc4bl]

High-performance engine shops use a profilometer to scrutinize cylinder wall finish, formerly referred to as “RA” (Roughness Average). The sophisticated electronic tool features a diamond-tipped stylus, similar to the needle found on a vinyl record turntable, that drags across the surface measuring the distribution of peaks and valleys. A profilometer provides modern, defined descriptions of cylinder bore finish that include “RPK” (Reduced Peak Height), “RVK” (Reduced Valley Depth) and “RK” (Core Roughness Depth), which is based on both the “RPK” and “RVK” measurements.

[@ladamyre1]

The first engine I rebuilt was a Buick 350 with 135,000 miles on it out of a '68 Buick Special (Skylark body). The plastic teeth coating on the cam gear had broken off and starved the 3-4 crank throw seizing the crankshaft. I had the block dipped, put in new cam bearings and a standard rebuild kit: gaskets, main & rod bearings and cast iron rings along with a new crank. I used a borrowed dingleberry hone for a 4" bore (the Buick 350 is a "square" engine, 3.8" bore and stroke) to put a 30 degree cross hatch on the cylinders. The Buick 350 had a full skirt piston and those things slapped like hell until it warmed up and quieted down, but after that I swear the thing had a good 25 more horsepower than it did stock. It would chirp the tires at the shift (the tranny was a Super Turbine 300, basically a single case 2-speed Powerglide) and I put another 35,000 miles on it before I sold it. So it depends on what you're working on and what you're trying to accomplish. I spent about $200 on what was basically a junk car before I started (this was in the early 80's) and got another 35,000 miles out of it and had a mild hot rod to boot. If I'd tried to do that dingleberry thing on a Chevy 350 with half skirt pistons it might not have gotten out from under the shade-tree I did it under. lol

[@northgeorgiapumpcompany1124]

Some guys don’t know or won’t admit that a proper flex hone job is about as good as a finish on a cylinder wall as you can get hands down. Now this is assuming that the cylinder is round and still in good condition.

[@PerformanceEngines]

Ya, because we all know cylinders don't weaR OUT AND PISTON COMPANYS ARE JUST WASTING THEIR TIME.

[@harryharry3193]

I can tell you...that Ball Hone is fine. In fact, its been proven many engines have picked up power by just running that flex hone through it and reassembling it. time ticket at the track proved it. absolutely agree, if you are going to put new pistons in a engine.....bore and hone it at a machine shop. alot of technical things....clearances....etc.......... as for piston rattle....that has to do with material and expansion rate. Many toyota v6 engines -have piston rattle when cold. after a little heat gets in them, they quiet up. 200--300k miles...yup-still running.

[@funone8716]

Are you sayin my cousin Bubba is doing it wrong with the emery cloth wrapped around a beer can?? Well shoot.....

[@blackbeard0074]

😂😂😂clown lol

[@cliffcorbitt9494]

yea my wife likes to use her finger nail file to get it to perfection : )_

[@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731]

@@blackbeard0074 Clown? what are you taking about? If you were stranded on a desert island and had to repare a downed plane I bet you would be wondering around the island looking for a cylinder hone.😂😂

[@tomcarpenter700]

@@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731 I know I wouldn't, I got too much Smarts for that, If there wasn't a stranded Machine shop around, I would use A-sharp rock

[@xtra729]

As someone who hones 8 hours a day 5-6 days a week, I can tell you that honing is an art. Honing is pretty easy to pick up, but if you're not properly instructed you can damage your part pretty easily. I would not recommend having the first thing you hone to be an expensive part, if you're deadset on doing it yourself practice on something else first. I hone airplane parts myself and I'd be hesitant to hone a car cylinder because it's a different technique. I don't hone for the surface finish, but to remove material to get a bore to size for production pins

[@janveit2226]

I totally agree. There are so many "experts" addressing" this issue and recommending how to actually destroy an engine.

[@lynskyrd]

On my Harleys- you can deglaze with a regular ball hone if you're just seating a new set of rings. Gramps is absolutely right as far as fitting new pistons- for that, a qualified / reputable automotive machine shop is the ONLY way.

[@dooby1445]

Maybe if you’re a retard.

[@DAT240Z72]

That noise or clatter can also be from forged pistons. Even brand and perfectly sized forged pistons will do this. By design a forged piston is greater clearance to accommodate the expansion don’t heat

[@yogibeer9319]

Old school gear heads like that are why this country 🇺🇸 is the greatest on earth

[@blackbeard0074]

🏁🇺🇲 life in the fast lane

[@ColonCrusher]

Pass, I’ll do it myself. You know how mad I’ve been paying a machine shop to do work that wasn’t right. I’d rather do it 3 times learning each time than ever get screwed by a machine shop again. Don’t get me wrong if I need it bored over sure. But if I need it honed no thanks I slowly learned to use measuring tools over each build I’ve done and I’ve only gotten better and become more equipped. Do it yourself you’ll only have yourself to blame. Fun fact my first rebuild was a 22re and I only used plastigauge. 10 years later that little bastard drove the 350 Chevy that slapped a piston against the head back to the machine shop that rebuilt the short block.

[@spencermaiers8322]

The comments that imply that he is a machinist, just desperately looking for money right? Therefore just take it to the machine shop. Brilliant. Now I'll be rolling in the dough he thinks as he rubs his greedy little hands together. Outrageous. Do you commenters work for a living? If so do you just do it free? Probably not. Maybe some of you are even gold bricking. Definitely ego problems. This dude is trying to help share knowledge. If you don't want to invest into tools, take it to a machine shop is probably wise advice. The intimation that he's a machinist that is trying to "scam you" with a fair voluntary exchange if you just so decide to take your engine to him is absurd to the max. I'm sure the grocery is scamming you for that gallon of milk if you don't have a cow in your back yard. Older tradesmen can teach us a lot and we should listen once in a while instead of patting ourselves on the back as being all knowledgable and perfect with perfect knowledge and everything that I don't know is a scam. Surely he'll retire on that few bucks for a hone. Unless he did it free (what a scammer!) Best

[@gregparham5877]

gotta love it .... I would sit and listen to this old timer all day , i'm in this delima right now with my 6.7 diesel , scratches , toss up of machine shop VS myself my 500lb block isn't going in the ole ladies trunk for the trip . LOL but i wish this guy was around my place I would toss the block on a dolly and push it to him ... WHY because he has probably built more freakin engines than half of these knuckleheads making thier smart comments combined .. and spent more time in an engines than most have even been outta mommies tummy... keeping it polite ! lol To the Master a question ...... If you read this . i had a turbo explode . 2011 6.7 powerstroke. common problem the shaving got into 2 cylinders and small scratches . can a Moron like me LOL hone these out i am mechanically inclined and capable. BUT i have never Honed a freakin BLOCK like the other expecrts on here obviously have may times... I have no way to get the block to a place for honing... at the moment anyways

[@hanzelalvarez4032]

man this videos are to help ppl to avoid machine shops you re taking everyones hope

[@PerformanceEngines]

avoiding a machine shop and therefore expert help can be the worst think you can do..If you have to rely on KZbin videos' in order to know how to do something as important as properly honing a cylinder then you should do some serious studying. Most of these videos' are WRONG and will lead to extremely shorted ring life.

[@eddieshabazz5603]

Sir I fully understand what you're saying. But u are fully competent in measuring cylinders and pistons and proper clearance issues and u measure and the cylinder is still true than there is absolutely nothing wrong with freshening up the bore with an actual tri stone attachment with the right grit and put proper set of mahle rings on ( which i without a doubt agree with u sir) i mean ive been doing that for years and actually just did it yesterday. I personally find it most successful and helpful when i change my rings way before they're needed. I've always had extremely even wear and i am able to prolong the trip to the machine shop which of course will always come someday its inevitable. By the way great video but why show a ball hone in your garage should've shown the real one. Cheers and please dont think any of this is meant in any ill manner

[@timheslin9185]

Thank you for putting forth your effort and knowledge to share with us.

[@BrockJaden]

What did he share??? Yeah take it to a machine shop cause I own a machine shop... Thanks for sharing...not...

[@Defundemorats]

To answer question why not do it right? I rebuild used boat engines and hone them out myself because the engine's going to fail in some other way ,long before the cylinders/rings wear out, because of a less than absolute perfect honing job.

[@randy1ization]

what was used before ball hones to get a proper job ? ball hones havent been around that long.,

[@PerformanceEngines]

Ya, I bought my first one when the salesman came through to our shop in 1970.

[@pauljanssen7594]

You can actually buy a Dingle Ball to the size you need 30 40/50 bucks on the internet.

[@PTucker0864]

Before I saw this video, I already ordered several items from Summit during my in chassis teardown of a 1985 Dodge 318 truck engine. Crusty damn engine....oil was never changed...don't know how many actual miles on it. Bores had no ridge, just shiny. Top ring looked like moly. I measured the bore taper/out of round etc.....still a good standard 3.91 bore. I bought the BRM 320 to deglaze, and some standard sized Hastings plasma moly rings. Crank is good so I'm doing standard sized Clevite tri-metal rods and mains also. I regret trying to remove that rope seal rear main seal though....what a PIA! Had to drop the crank a bit, converter and bell housing bolts to get the upper half out....I bet it wasn't even leaking....should've left that alone! Bought a set of factory casting later model closed chamber heads with larger SS valves from Indy Cylinder Head. I smoothed out the bowls and re-assembled....the casting slag in the exhaust bowls was horrendous! I purchased alot of new parts for this refresh....damn near an inframe rebuild....not my first rodeo, but first attempt without a machine shop. It is funny.....Summit Racing had plenty of 320 grit flex hones, but the 240s were mostly sold out....lucky for me...lol.

[@greensakaar1431]

He didn’t touch on bogus info and said nothing about how it’s done.

[@ovalwingnut]

You've got some nice 'guns' there, Mr.Winston. My hat is off to you. Oh, and yes, thank for that GR8T information!!! You RoCk!

[@stevetalbert2727]

If the Cyl. wear is a little excessive and you don't want to have it bored then cut the ridge, lightly hone it and use cast rings. They seat quicker but do not last as long as moly rings. What this man said is right. It depends on your budget. I have done ring and valve jobs many times without removing the block. It's up to you. One other thing is newer engines have much narrower rings with less tension and they have a tighter piston clearance. Choose your own poison.

[@mitchcoop1]

I agree that a machine shop with something like a CK-10 should do the work . *** If you can get them to do what the Ring manufacturer recommends ***** I gave them a print out of hone spec.s for my total seal rings and they ignored it. I payed a good buck to get my block (S.B. Chevy) Torque plate honed, and they admitted later (After engine was smoking on Dyno) that they used 600 grit instead of 320-400 grit finish. I have assembled many engines and know how to clean and lube cyl.s before assy. Note: Leak down was less than 2%, all that oil must have helped total seal rings do the job. The did not fix problem.

[@larrywoodward8612]

Nice 55 , that's our favorite car!

[@bomark2002]

Guys, why Mahle piston rings? What are they made of?

[@asaflores43]

I have a 2011 ram 5.7 hemi st the engine was sitting in the rain so the Cylinder walls got rusty i tried honing but it to far gone so I was thinking of boring it over to fit a 0.020 over pistons the question is can i keep the same 5.7 crank along with the stock camshaft lifters I'm not looking for more power then it already has stock i seen people put 6.1 crank when they go oversized to 0.020 i cant return the 5.7 crank i bought so thats why i was wondering

[@willknight1005]

Thanks for the vid mate! Appreciated from Australia 👍

[@justingeraldi2304]

I have nothing but respect for this man,,everything he is saying should be treated as the gospel. Old people like this are a dying art. Not too many people nowadays fix anything,,everything is just replace.. His comments are 100% correct. Really liked the comment of how he has worked on 100's of blocks over the years and 90% didn't need to be machined.. I think too many people pay a machine shop for stuff that is not really necessary

[@oldgregg2057]

Hmm, remove the block from the car and haul it to the engine shop or just hone it at home with a decent inexpensive tool? I appreciate that a shop with a machine could do a much better job but are they going to come pull the block for me? Forget that.

[@PerformanceEngines]

I'm going to edit this and put a picture of my 12 or more Brush Research ball hones. I have them from 3 1/4 to 4 1/2 in different grits as well as small ones for wheel cylinders and lifter bores. I still have the first one I ever bought for a 4" SBC bore. At today's prices they would cost $-500 +. They are for deglazing and establishing a proper crosshatch for ring break in. If you you know what you are doing they work great.

[@khizerhusain5237]

Good day sir Sir kindly tell me how we measure cross hatch angle of cylinders head

[@markmarquez7348]

I have a question ? First do you work on motorcycle engines . I have a 07 cbr1000 and the cylinder section is connected to the top half of the case is it possible for you to bore it

[@markthegunplumber8376]

I agree it's prudent to take the engine to an engine shop and have an expert do it with the correct tools. But, that being said when I have to wait 6 weeks for a shop to tank a block and remove cam bearings and pull the frost plugs and make some measurements that I already knew because I have the Dial Bore Gage and Micrometers and they tell me it's going to be another 6 weeks to finish the job and they haven't even started my heads yet. I pick my stuff up and go home and do it myself. The tank job was crap and didn't even remove the paint or rust they removed the frost plugs with an air hammer and put gouges in the block and then get butt hurt when I don't want to wait 1/4 of a year for them to do the work and whine and complain about having to torque plate the block like it's going to take a week to put them on and take off. I spent $235 to have the crap work they did kind of completed and will save a ton more time and money doing it myself. Been 20 years since i rebuilt it last and over 100k miles and i'll do it again. This isn't brain surgery folks it's just a large air compressor and unless your wanting big HP gains it's way easy to do and if you want to add HP it's cheaper to buy Alum. heads and a cam and lifters, manifold etc. than to have a shop work over a set of cast heads for a minimal gains. Unfortunately we are a throw away society now and due to high labor costs it's cheaper to buy new than to rebuild in many cases. If you need an engine completely rebuilt you'd be money ahead to buy a crate engine or buy an engine from Blueprint engines with all new parts and block and a dyno sheet. You know your screwed when you take in a set of Vortec heads and the guy says "there are only 2. kinds of Vortec's those that are cracked and those that will be" and by the time I work them over it will be the same price as a new set of NKB alum. heads from Skip White. With some basic tools and knowledge on a 350 chevy you can have a 350HP engine easliy and with some more money I went with 430hp and didn't have to wait 3 mos. Heck, a guy can buy a new 4 bolt L-31 Vortec crate engine with a 100k warranty for $4600 delivered to your house in a week or 2 or you'll spend 1/2 that just on machine work alone on the block and heads and hard parts and gaskes will be alot more. Is honing with a 3 arm hone or a ball hone perfect?. No, but in most cases it will get you by alot cheaper and faster than a full blown rebuild from an engine shop. We as a society need to get back to learning to work on our own stuff and keeping more $$$ for ourselves. As a farm kid in the 60s and 70s we rebuilt quite a few tractors and truck engines in the barn on a dirt floor with the help of JC Whittney and they all turned out well and ran many more years with an old arm hone and an old electric drill. For what the engine shop wanted to do the work I bought the few tools that i didn't have like a cam bearing inst. tool etc. and a used old Sioux valve grinder and a used old Black and Decker seat grinder and a new digital torque wrench and did the work myself and now have an extra set of Vortec heads to use or sell.

[@shaun4bigblocks993]

KZbin recommended me this video and I am never too old to possibly learn something new so I clicked it. Notice he talks about the precision required by molly rings- which I agree with? Here is my 40+ years of experience tip. Even though cast rings don't last as long, they are forgiving and like a rough hone. If you are hand drill honing, use stones and stick with molly. It works out great for guys who "actually" do it- not guys like this guy who never do it like that but tell you it won't work- the same guy who benefits from machine shop service sales (cough, cough.) Molly lasts longer, but you can probably re-ring your engine 10 times over with cast rings yourself before you would spend as much as the machine shop price for a precision molly hone- and catch problems earlier with more frequent tear downs and opportunity's to polish the crank. Watch Uncle Tony's videos and save a fortune. This poor guy has blinders on from to many years of mundane repetition. He is the poster child for the saying "#Learn How To Code..."

[@shawnkelley9007]

Absolutely correct information. Information I would expect from my late grandfather. He rebuilt engines back in the 50s, it was his advice, knowledge, and patience to teach the job the correct way exactly the way you did. Well done sir, and you are correct, bring it to your local machine shop if possible

[@NotOldYetGaming]

50 for 4 cylinders???? Shoot. Its a 100 bucks a cylinder.....a CYLINDER....in CT.

[@whiplashmachine]

Damn! Been doing this for over twenty years and never heard that much a hole. 30-40 has been the standard.

[@doogeerugged89]

well I'm working on a Frankenstein build for my 2.0 focus. AND the idea is street performance that can daily if wanted to... I suppose it would be a good idea to mic the pistons I plan on using my Fowler bore gauge to mice the cylinders .. just to learn.... but I'ma do a hone with a drill and call it a day with new rings I got off of EBAY... boie.. if anyone was wondering which ones they're called Hastings

[@builderpj]

Mostly because there's no machine shops anymore. The machine shops in my area are all closed down

[@MrBlackbutang]

The last machine shop honed my block 300 grit for Molly rings. Not good.not in the pnw!

[@brandonleon795]

Can I deglaze with a 120 grit ball hone and install new moly rings? Will they seat on a 120 bore finish?

[@PerformanceEngines]

No, but they will wear out almost immediately

[@bigred1247]

Well sir my cylinders are removable big diesel engine and do mine and it works for my application..when I'm not pulling the sleeves I have no choice..

[@joescheller6680]

easier said, hey kind of hard to drag my old h tractor to the hone shop, doent even have a top ridge, only pukked head because it was cracked, debating on doing the rings or just putting new head on.

[@ArcadeJason]

i just bought new standard size pistons to bump up the cr had 50k on the motor so i am hoping for the best . question is i bought cast rings what are the benefits of moly ? pros? cons? (sbc 350 59cc chambers +6cc pistons ) also considering a 100hp shot of nitrous in the future what should my ring gap be?

[@PerformanceEngines]

every engine made sense the mid 60's has had moly rings.(diesel trucks run chrome) They are far superior to anything else. Cast iron rubbing on cast iron equal accelerated wear. Many engines with as much as 300k still have the cross hatch with moly. Back in the 50's it was common to rebuild engines that ran 30w non detergent oil every 50,000 miles. They usually had to be bored 30 or 40 thou over. I think it is wrong to even sell cast rings. Run your top ring gap at about .022 and the second at .020. You,ll be safe even if you put a 150 hit in.

[@2secondslater]

Rule of thumb is 4 thou ring gap per inch of bore for a standard NA engine, forced induction or nitrous motors require more gap, best to refer to the ring manufacturers specs.

[@dirkadirka5395]

Where's the torque plate on that block being honed?

[@Mountain-Man-3000]

Don't question him. He knows everything!

[@mitchcoop1]

Post Note: Oh yes, I checked piston to cyl. wall clearance. they did get that right.

[@LatinDanceVideos]

Makes sense. Once all the disassembly work done, take block to a machine shop for proper machining. Generally cheap. Only time it’s tempting to manually hone is if you are going to sell the engine soon, even then, it’s dodgy af and not recommended.

[@ekimmilc]

For those with the knowledge to understand when a shop is needed, go for it. For those who searched the internet for their confidence, TAKE IT TO THE SHOP! Information about engine theory, is like political conspiracy theory. Statements made and ignorant people believe it. There is a right and wrong way to do your own work. But when it’s beyond the capabilities for your equipment, you need help. If your at the end of your years, and just want another couple years service out of your car. You can probably get by. If you want to get a couple hundred thousand miles out of you efforts, it needs to be precise. It needs to be clean, and it needs to be compatible with your driving style. I watch videos to see what kind of crap is being fed, and I can’t even find a video about simple intake installation, without the person passing on misinformation to someone in need of the truth. Be careful people!

[@muckman5509]

can you do a video comparing both with a machine shop vs a home job?

[@robspear03]

Doubtful. How else can he overcharge...

[@muckman5509]

@@robspear03 I just mean if ya going make any kind of statement about anything, you really need evidential research to reinforce your statement. Otherwise its just speculation. He shows zero evidence as to why you shouldn’t do it at home and only has a demonstration of a machine. He needs to show evidence.

[@lpburke86]

Well of course a machine shop owner is going to say pay a machine shop to do the job. What a waste of time to even make this video.

[@PerformanceEngines]

just to be clear I own 17 various size Brush Research ball hones. They do a great job. I HAVE HONED MANY BLOCKS ON THE CHEAP FOR CUSTOMERS WITH THEM. It's pretty false economy to rent of buy a hone when you actually don't know how to properly use it. Most everyone can benefit from doing it properly or if they are unsure, have a shop do it.No drama there.

[@lpburke86]

@@PerformanceEngines And let me guess, you were born with the knowledge, and no one ever taught you anything, right? I get so tired of you fucking boomers acting like teaching someone to do what you know how to do is such a waste of time. Why does the millennial generation not know how to do anything? Because of assholes like you that say the correct way to do it is to pay some boomer to do it for you. Your generation fucked up the world that your generation complains about.

[@hudsonww1]

@@lpburke86 Calm down. This man is just saying if you want it done right go pay to have it done, if you want to do it yourself you run the risk of fucking it up. You should relax man, this is an informative video.

[@lpburke86]

@@hudsonww1 Its an informative video that provides no information. You realize how stupid that is right?

[@hudsonww1]

@@lpburke86 I got some good info, I watched it and took notes!

[@1967davethewave]

Hey, what is that 4 bolt main Pontiac block setting there?

[@superduty4556]

That's a damn good question.

[@zCLUTCHzx]

Damn that’s the most badass video I’ve ever seen

[@jons.1002]

Work smart not hard and do it right the first time. Thank you sir for the advice

[@davidb5952]

Machine shop near Buffalo NY wants $800 to do a 4 cylinder subaru block oversize.

[@roaddoglv]

I wish I could get a V8 machine honed here for $75. It’s twice that at a general auto machine shop and more toward $250 for a hone from a performance shop. Back 10-15 years ago I could get $10-12 a hole but those days are gone.

[@smokeymcpot992]

Well not so much dude look at it a different way cause you know every once in a while you come across an old timer such as your self that farts dust and shit left an right that hasn't quite realized the $ ain't worth hardly shit anymore so they feel like their bending people over charging a more typical rate. Those guys even tho they fart dust n all that are kind of cool not breaking the bank on the peeps so, I suggest you just fart around town a wee bit longer and look for dust clouds and you have a good chance and finding yourself a fair deal partner. 🤠. What I say is what I know.😐

[@robertj9141]

Plateau honing?

[@michelle-lz8tg]

saying just take it to a machine shop really isn't that informative...a lot of smaller towns no longer have even one shop available.

[@terryenyart5838]

It's not rocket science. Have decent measuring equipment and bore to within. 005" of final size and hone to fit each piston. My custome pistons all measure within .0004" of each other. Those are Ross pistons made to my specs. Different depth valets depends on the application. Forced induction high HP engines need a bit more oil as well as lower ring height. N/A engines require a higher ring pack and less Valletta depth. Cross angle drain-back is between 40-50 degrees. Torque plate boring & honing is the way to go. Hot honing is not something I have tried yet.

[@jimcatanzaro7808]

Everyone has a opinion factory rings work just as good I had a olds 307 with 450k on it and never burned oil Just changed your oil and don’t beat on it or overheat the motor run a oil cooler or a triple core radiator

[@ianmcwilliam1753]

i dropped off my bmw bare aluminum v8 block and disassembled aluminum heads to a local "very reputable" machine shop to get cleaned and degreased only. when i picked them up someone had used a drill with wire wheel and reamed out the cylinder head`s hydraulic lifter bores/recesses and all gasket surfaces (DOHC - Camshaft over hydraulic lifter design) which left a huge crosshatch pattern in a previously perfectly smooth surface. I should`ve taken pics before dropping everything off for proof. The shop tried saying it was caused by abnormal wear patterns (after all, bucket lifters do rotate ) .But damage In all 32 lifter bores? Nah. I shielded the bores when using valve spring compressor. its odd, not one vertical scratch though.... plus lifters were unmarked. i`m betting they gave the task to the inexperienced young shop sweeper and he was too much of a pussy to own his mistake. I`m just glad that i made it very clear - DO NOT HONE OR TOUCH THE ALUSIL CYLINDERS... Ultimately , they were able to polish 95% of the scratches out but still would`nt admit fault. all that stress for 400.00 . At least lifter bores are still within spec. Next time ill watch them in person doing the work.

[@hermanbotha1449]

hand fit a loose ring in the cylinder , then place a cutout of cardboard using the piston to trace the circle, then place the cardboard disc ontop of the ring you placed. Now use a flashlight shi e from underneath , and look from above , you will obviously see the light shine through the end gap wich is normal , but if you can see any light shining through in between the piston ring and the sleeve then it mea s that gas wi also make it throug... I do this on. nervous risky honing jobs so that I only remove material until theres no light shining through. Im sure this will help the STDIY (screw that ,do it yourself!!!) And for mister " send it in to the shop or else im going to start crying and tell my momma " 1. you have to remove your block . 2. you must clean strip everything off , and they are full of shit at the engineering shops , you cant rock up with a gunky greasy carbon dripping block , they refuse to touch it as they dont want any of that shit blowing around the shop getting into everybody elses stuff... nope. then they charge you money you dont have . and you sometimes wait long , then they hit you with this" it could not be honed so we had to bore it to xxxthou oversize." at that moment your life is ruined , buying a set of pistons was never imagined. plus oversize rings are more expensive than std coz they don't sell as fast... now ive gotta assemble my block again , and now I need a gasket set aswel and most like some stuff got broken when you tried to remove it for the engineering... So leave the men , if an engine has blowby in a of its cylinders , then re-ring and home honing it , even if 1 or 2 wont seal 100% , the results will be a much better engine than you had, no oil burn and much more compression... besides , depending on the engine and its intended use , up to 10 % or more in some high performance engines , is considered acceptable. and if a manufacturers spec in a manual says 10% they actually mean 15 or so , coz they trying to scare you from the absolute limit in case its breaks down and they look bad... Final word. Im a private mechanic and if it comes to a customer car then I agree with old sadness In this video. do t take chances , they are paying for it anyway , and while that stuff is at machine shop , you have time for something else I. the meantime... but if its my own then I will hone it with damn emery tape wound around the sponge from my car washing kitt and a dowel stick in my hand drill if I must...

[@paulosborne5048]

you sir, are exactly right. very good information.

[@limaroldo100]

Amazing machine

[@newwavepressure6478]

I live in NJ how much would it cost to have it done to my 1200

[@joescheller6680]

need to do something about your audio I cant here hardly anything and yes my sound is as high as it goes

[@bendude6748]

Was just thinking the same

[@danawick9817]

they want 120 a hole on a 4 cyl here ill take my chances

[@cliffcorbitt9494]

the men that know how to do it rite take hours to get it right, the key is to do it with so much gental pressure that it takes many hours per cylinder to get such a smooth bore inside that it could take a million miles plus more in the end, ring life that is.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@cliffcorbitt9494 doesnt make sense. pressure or speed has nothing to do with surface finish smoothness. The grit does. you could get an extremely smooth mirror like surface using 1000 to even 3000 grit stones.

[@whiplashmachine]

@@OldCrowsClassicCars hone pressure does effect the finish! Too little and your just rubbing and making scratches. Too much and your digging stone shards into the cylinder walls. Plus creating hot spots. Not super complicated but does take a bit of practice to aquire a proper finish. I ran CK-10's like his in this video for many years and now own my own CV-616. He talks about fixing hundreds of self done hone jobs and he is not alone, most of us in the engine rebuilding industry have fixed hundreds.

[@brotang2953]

I dunno it's not actually that hard to do at all and get more than good enough results at home. If your cylinder is really out of round or the bore is damaged severely then send it off but if it's just a tired old engine it's really not that hard. If your building a race engine that's another kettle of fish but modern materials give a fair bit of wriggle room at standard outputs.

[@FelipeCobu]

A guy with a white beard usually known what He is saying!

[@mattkaiser8984]

Look y’all, don’t be a slave to “professionals”. Take some risks, learn hard lessons and have fun.

[@PerformanceEngines]

ya, it's so much fun R&Ring engines are redoing them. LOL

[@PuredirtMike]

Hmm.I guess all you guys own a dial bore gauge and a caliper set,and file fit your rings.A good machine shop will not hone your cylinders If they are out of round,or too far out for your pistons wall clearance spec.If you hear a feint tap,tap.Thats your piston rocking In the bore until it cracks a skirt off.

[@yadielvelez125]

Hi happy new year, i buil my engine all new and the machine shop hon the cylinders, i never rand the car i only turn it on each 3 days for 10 to 15 minutes. Now im gonna replace pistons for forge pistons and new piston rings do i have to hon again even without using the car? I never took the car out of garage i only started the engine each 3 days in garage not even 50 kilometers on it

[@telabib]

what's wrong with cast rings ?

[@PerformanceEngines]

they are from the 1950's when a rebuild was required every 50k. Worst investment you can make while building an engine.They shouldn't even make them. Cast on cast equals extreme wear

[@jeffcarpenter396]

You keep knocking cast rings but I like cast better they seal up better I also like cast heads with cast valve guides bronze guides will grab a valve cast is a great wear metal

[@SealofPerfection]

The old adage "Buy once, cry once" comes to mind. Spend the money to begin with, that way you don't have to spend it later anyway after spending a little bit at the start.

[@pmd7771969]

That tool doesn't measure the bore. Machine shops charge way more for a v8 then 75. Omg

[@herockhernandez2794]

Come on man Is that all you got??? Please put more information there...

[@geoffconroy3284]

No torque plate???

[@PerformanceEngines]

On a new bore and with the finish hone

[@SassyXR6007]

Thanks mate! I was going to attempt it myself but I'll get a machine shop to do it.

[@jon-christiankaczor5384]

On my engine builds which i tell these kids I a ball hone is for deglazing and yoi have to finish hone them with a rigid hone.

[@PerformanceEngines]

The only ridged hones I see in these videos are the cheap 3 finger type that are always to coarse. A good Sunnen adjustable 2 stone and 2 wipers hone has roughing stones to remove material after being BORED over size for new pistons. Then change to the smoother (320 grit) finishing stones for the last 1/2 thousandths or so. For this hone you need a dial bore gauge for accuracy. Deglazing is all you need to do. Don't remove any medal when doing a overhaul using the old pistons. IMPORTANT clean all the carbon out of the ring grooves using a broken second ring. Visually inspect for cracked skirts and if the engine has run lean (plugged injector) or over heated have the pistons miked to be sure no collapsed skirts.

[@erikkoenig4037]

@@PerformanceEngines Where is your shop located at? I think I recognize your worker there!

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@PerformanceEngines I've seen 320 grit stones for the glaze breaker on rockauto, as well as rigid hones with 500grit stones, although those are a bit expensive, close to $200. Still, much less than what the local machine shop would charge at least around here.

[@mohdasifasifkhan9889]

Hello sir u explain good please tell me bore honing stone used which grade

[@PerformanceEngines]

I recommend Brush Research ball hones to the do-it your self er 320 grit it a good finish. I probable own 20 of these for wheel cylinders, lifter bores, and cylinder walls. You end up buying so many because the range they operate properly in is very small.

[@robspear03]

@@PerformanceEngines Ball hones? Ffs... And you "know what you're doing"....

[@gregparham5877]

Unlike the experts making comments, I want advice . I have a 6.7 powerstroke 2011, scratches on 2 cylinders .... I have no way to " get the block to a machine shop or i probably would" ball honing you say is better than stones? i'm going to do this myself . unless some mirical and you roll in my driveway with a hone machine...lol . little help I'll gladly accept your knowledge

[@joescheller6680]

if your cylinder is scratched simple honing wont work. they need to be bored with a machine. your cylinder is scored. serious.

[@mrrberger]

Forged Pistons clatter when cold and in spec.

[@jackflash538]

Not if the forged pistons are forged from #4032 aluminum alloy. The aluminum #4032 alloy has a clearance close to as tight as that of the factory cast aluminum pistons. The #4032 alloy has a higher silicon content that gives then makes them much more thermally stable than the forged pistons that are forged out of the more ductile #2618 alloy. Check out both J/E pistons & Wiseco pistons for a pleasant surprise!

[@BrockJaden]

@@jackflash538 no forged piston is going to have as tight a tolerance as hyper pistons do.

[@Mewanrahnam575]

so much info here..

[@aaron-qe8mc]

dead set a perfection-est could do better than factory!

[@tomknud]

There isn't a machine shop!

[@Brenda-jf2pe]

Machine shop ain’t cheep, V8 $75/cyl!!! Not in 2022 try 4-5 k for molting all eight cylenders

[@Brenda-jf2pe]

Molying

[@playsportfun3356]

This ranks up there with one of the most useless videos I've watched in a long time. I enjoy failing on my own. It's my hobby!!

[@bombmanize]

I don't understand the hate.. This is helpful lol. Gotta know what you can do at home and when to send to the pros

[@T0tenkampf]

I am a big diy guy with an engineering background and the desire to do complete engine machining at home. I feel I have thourghoughly educated myself on honing cylinders and main bearing caps. Until I can find a professional hone that I can afford, the blocks are going to a machinist. You are kidding yourself if you think you can do this task correctly on the cheap for even mild builds if you have overbored the parts and arent trying to just clean up a bore already in good condition

[@bozzaa]

Click bait! I thought you were going to show us the right way to do it? Machine shop for honing? There's an old saying: A fool and his money soon parted.

[@fatwalletboy2]

sounds so low...........

[@savagenomore]

wow, rocket science....lol

[@jameslackey9695]

Notice that he is in a machine shop? If your patient and take your time anyone can hone a cylinder properly. This is just a gimmick to get you into a shop.

[@PerformanceEngines]

Absolutely untrue. It has nothing to do with patients, it has everything to do with KNOWLEDGE. 95 percent of the blocks I have seen over the last 20 years have had little on no wear. The Japanese perfected manufacturing of dense cast iron. It is noticeably harder then what American manufactures made that required over bores of 30 and even 60 thousandths. Dart, World Products, Brodix, GM, Ford and all others who offer performance engine blocks all use this process along with a higher nickel content. This has eliminated block wear. Honing is to remove medal. That increases piston clearance. That is not what you are trying to accomplish. You are trying to replicate the factory finish that resulted in the engine lasting in some cases over 300 thousand miles with 0 cylinder wear. The knowledge I am trying to pass on is that most everyone is showing way to coarse of a finish and not enough emphasis on proper crosshatch. Most people doing a in chassis over haul will have success with a 320 grit Brush Research ball hone.(dingle ball) Then you just DEGLAZE the cylinder.Then you install premium rings on properly cleaned pistons, you use the proper oil and startup brake in procedure and you be successful. Oh and hope you didn't miss a crack in a piston or a worn ring land or a worn wrist pin. It's so easy, machine shops are just totally unnecessary as are the engine rebuild classes at the local Jr. college and the worst offender, The School of Automotive Machining Tech in Huston Tx. LOL

[@jameslackey9695]

98% of people aren't building performance perfect motors either, most people are building motors that are going back on the streets. 95% of motors I've seen honed work just perfect and have lasted longer than the vehicle itself. There is always a profit tactic behind a professional business making a demo video. Usually with misleading information to confuse and discourage people from DIY projects.

[@PerformanceEngines]

@@jameslackey9695 Actually just the opposite is true. 50%of all the business I have ever done is with DIY customers. On literally 100s of occasions while cleaning and installing cam brgs, soft plugs etc. I have brush honed cylinders for customer with out charging them one penny. Just trying to help them do the job correctly when they couldn't afford all the services they needed. I have also loaned out my brush hones and spent the time to show how to properly use them. I have helped hundreds of customers by reminding them they needed to clean the ring lands. Showed them the proper way to do a DIY crank polish and especially took the time to explain the proper break in procedure.I loaned out my repair manuals so the could see head torque sequences and values. All so they didn't have to spend unnecessary money on a one time job.Just to be clear, a stock engine is meant to be machined, cleaned and assembled every bit as carefully as any race engine.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@PerformanceEngines Absolutely correct! I wish you had this info on the video, but maybe you do somewhere else.

[@OldCrowsClassicCars]

@@PerformanceEngines People that do that kind of thing, honesty, and with an intention of helping others, and not hide the solution and scare them, are rare. That's very nice of you!

[@SOLDOZER]

Dont use cast rings? Hahahaha!! It came from the factory with cast rings and I have 225,000 miles on it. This old timer is so clueless. And hone jobs at at shop are $375. Not $50.

[@caydengatewood1190]

Typical old head thought process

[@612minigun]

I've just got a 50cc scooter engine though

[@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731]

I've honed one of thos small engines with a peice of 150 grit sandpaper rigged up too fit in a drill.

[@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731]

You could even wrap a small bar with duck tape too match the bore size with a little bit of fluffy cotton between the last layers too allow the right amount of pressure and sandpaper on the last layer. Attach that too a drill and your in business. This will work I can guarantee.

[@anunentitledmotivatedmille7731]

Iv rebuild a 2014 rmz450 4 stroke. Split the cases too change the main bearings and crank. I practiced on thos little 50ccs till I got all the basics. Now I'm quite reputable.

[@timbiddle5709]

75 bucks fore hone on v8, thats funny guy here want 350 plus 100 for a torque plate