Honey isn't the only problem

[@theDMLair]

👉 Get Lairs & Legends, the Secret Art of Game Mastery, and more on the DM Lair Store! thedmlair.com/collections/hardcovers

[@daviddeen]

If it helps, I think Waystar was crowdfunded in good faith. I got paid to write a fair portion of content for it, and they had released multiple projects before (some of which I also contributed to). It doesn't make sense to me for them to pay for writing if they knew it would never see the light of day. I think Penny Dragon grew too fast, overextended themselves, and fell apart trying to make too many projects in the end.

[@zarathudoo]

Very happy to support your channel through the Kickstarters, and my kids last month completed the "Lost Temple of Bukir" adventure from Lairs & Legends. They declared that Dragons had "divorced parent energy" and were torn deciding who to help against the others...until the end. With over 140 Kickstarter projects backed , I have only 2 turned out to be scams. Sure there have been a few mediocre projects, but the Critical Hits more than offset the Failures.

[@qwertsgamingchannel7504]

I lost a lot of faith in Kickstarter after backing the flat Acrylic minis, because they're currently something like 18 months behind fulfillment, but the creator is posting somewhat regular updates telling us what's going on... I think they're actually going to ship, and that's encouraging. But I'm very cautious backing kickstarters anymore where I don't know who I'm funding. I backed The Dungeon Coach at the very highest tier I could afford because I trust him, but for a lot of others, the risk is just too great. Spending $100 now to buy a product a year and a half from now is less appealing than it might seem. =) Great vid, Luke!

[@GrandOldDwarf]

I love how upfront and honest you are, as well as the majority of other TTRPG KZbinrs. You are all keeping it real in the world of imagination!

[@matthewscorner2990]

Similar to your own process for accepting Kickstarter sponsors, I have a system that I would try to abide by if I got sponsors if I got into content creation. Step 1: Decide whether or not the product or service is something I cah actively use. Step 2: Background/public opinion check the company. Past drama, claims, other brand deals they've had, etc. Step 3: Actively test the product or service for a prolonged period of time to decide if I like it. Step 4: Negotiate contract terms, include a clause allowing me to pull out with no consequences should any negative press about the company come to light.

[@ultimatewitcherfan6677]

You’re absolutely right, Luke. When KZbinrs are considering accepting a sponsorship/backing a kickstarter, they need to do their due diligence (do their homework) and vet these people/businesses/companies/kickstarters. They need to make sure the sponsorship/kickstarter is legit before accepting/backing it. I know most of these are legit anyway, but some are not so it’s best to vet them thoroughly instead of just taking the risk and getting scammed.

[@TroyKnoell]

Thanks for your advice. I backed your 1st Lairs & Legends Kickstarter. This was my first Kickstarter and, I think you ruined other Kickstarters for me. The books are AMAZING! But, what's even more impressive is how well you and your team kept me informed thru the entire process. Other Kickstarters I've supported don't communicate even 25% as well as you guys did. Because of that experience I trust your recommendations. However, I won't hold you responsible for the sellers mistakes or shortcomings.

[@eclectic_nerd]

I supported a kickstarter, and while the physical product had massive delays, the pdfs came out in pretty good time. People weren't happy, but the product did finally come out. It's a tough one to judge.

[@ShugoAWay]

The bad kickstarter stuff is the least of the bad sponsorships, with that at least the risks are laid out that kickstarters often fail, the worse ones are the nord, shadow legends, gfuel stuff

[@LordOz3]

Kickstarting turned out to be a huge lesson for me - from the creator end. What we expected to take 9 to 12 months has stretched out after one problem after another, both within the project in in life. We're closing on the finish line, but I feel bad about taking so long. I know that if I ever do another project, I'll have it ready to go before going to a funding platform.

[@yellingintothewind]

It's a good idea to delay funding until as late in development as you can, and then to build in as large of a buffer time as you can on the advertised delivery date. The _general_ rule for novice project management is take all your estimates and double them.

[@SilverScribe85]

The only D&D related Kickstarters I pay attention to are the ones that involve books, specifically new campaign settings or creature manuals. Granted, I don't have the means to go on these and add funding myself but I still like to be "in the know," as they say. Moving on, I'm surprised that some of these books that get fully funded have yet to earn a place in bookstores. An example I can give is the Field Guide to Floral Dragons, which not only got fully funded on Kickstarter but someone did a campaign here on KZbin based around the book

[@tscoff]

I’ve backed a few projects on Kickstarter and I’ve had good experiences so far. There’s only one that hasn’t been fulfilled, but it is still in progress and there is regular communication about the status. However, I don’t think any of the projects have been delivered on time, they’ve all been late. I’m fine with that though since there’s always been communication about the status.

[@Lrbearclaw]

"One Hundred Years og GameMastering advice"? Wow, Luke, you look AMAZING for your age.

[@yellingintothewind]

To be clear, the major issue with Established Titles isn't that the titles are fake. As you say, _that_ bit is pretty obvious, but as a gag gift could be fine. No, the major issue is they claimed they would plant trees, -but when pressed, could provide no proof they ever did so.- The rest they disclaimed in the fine print, which _doesn't_ really cover them, given the way they advertised, but at least protected anyone who took the time to investigate. Edit: Per BobWorldBuilder's comment, ET _has_ paid for trees to be planted, and is listed on Trees For The Future donor roll. The problem is ET implies the trees would be planted in Scotland, but the trees actually end up in Africa.

[@Lycaon1765]

I would say it wasn't obvious though, since a lot of ad reads for ET said stuff like "you can add your title to your driver's license because this is totally real!!" and basically said the opposite of it being a gag gift.

[@yellingintothewind]

@@Lycaon1765 Obvious if you read the fine print on their website. Obvious if you know anything about European nobility. I agree that much of the overt advertising around it was intended to confuse the issue, and dupe the unwary.

[@BobWorldBuilder]

So I have zero ties to ET at this point, but this is part of the misinformation spread by the ‘expose’ that blew up. Yes, ET asked sponsored creators to mention 1 or 2 tree planting orgs. So at the time, I visited one of their websites, and ET was one of their biggest donors. It was that easy to validate the tree-planting claims, but that one guy just said the opposite and then millions of people believed him without doing the simple google search.

[@yellingintothewind]

@@BobWorldBuilder Thanks for the feedback, as it prompted me to go review the whole situation. Scott Shafer overstated his claim that they don't plant trees. Both One Tree Planted and Trees For The Future have confirmed that ET has paid to have trees planted. The issue is ET regularly implied, and in a few cases outright claimed the trees would be planted _in_ Scotland (with one facebook advert even claiming the tree would be planted on the "novelty" plot itself). One Tree Planted does not comment on numbers or locations of trees, but Trees For The Future has confirmed _all_ of the trees planted via ET went to Africa.

[@MrJerks93]

​@@yellingintothewindTo be fair, I'd rather have the trees planted in Africa. The thought that the tree would be planted in the 1' x 1' plot of land you purchased isn't necessarily realistic.

[@sanjaraejour9632]

Thank you for this video. It's important for people to know the work you put into sponsorship stuff, as well as the importance of communication for creators who have crowdfunded.

[@Actrazorflactem]

Oh you sneaky git!. you were just waiting to drop a plug of your own product the whole time. Truth be told, I've bought a fair bit of the DMlair content, and it's all bangers that I often recommend to other DMs, especially newer ones who need the help. Take a moment to personally say "Thank you Luke, your content helped me tremendously when I started a few years ago. I probably would have gave up if it weren't for your advice."

[@agilemonk6305]

Thank you, Luke, for both doing this video and for how well you handled the topic. Love and blessings to you and yours ❤️🙏😊🇺🇸

[@briandixon9140]

Love the lore behind your sponsor recommendations. I could have done without the Waystar reminder though. I also am someone who got duped by it.

[@guitarmuser6150]

Sounds like the real lesson to learn here is that kickstarters are a gamble. Do so at your own risk. I'm no gambler. I made my own TTRPG system. Took me about a year. My players love playing it; I love running it. Only cost me my time (well, some paper and ink too) and the only thing I put into it was love for the game. 8-) Keep on gaming people. Do it your way, it doesn't have to cost you much if anything at all. ;-)

[@MrGBH]

Honey goes deeper than that Even if you never were sponsored by them, their method of stealing affiliate link commissions means that if any viewer wanted to purchase something you did advertise, Honey would get the credit for it. Meaning that you probably lost money to Honey anyway

[@pyhriel]

Yeah. That's a thing I was thinking about recently. How insidious and dirty Honey is. The more it is distributed the more it takes away from every creators. It is so scummy.

[@chevaliermalfet4538]

I'm here to learn about being a better DM and player... if you want to pump cereal, headphones or wallets to keep that up and pay the bills... that's how the business works. Can't see how I could hold you more responsible for those products than the quality of the worship piano lessons in the ad that popped up before your video started. Caveat emptor. Happy New Year!

[@murgel2006]

The second Kickstarter I backed did not fulfil and it was not the last to fail. Sad but, that is life. On the other hand, there are several that are LONG overdue but keep giving updates and very valid reasons why that is the case such as "Skyraiders of Abarax" In the end, you can be disappointed but much more often you receive something that matches your expectations.

[@ChrisHarperBooks]

That shirt is awesome. I know it has nothing to do with the video, but that's all I could think throughout the entire thing. I'll watch a second time...I promise I'll pay attention better!

[@doctorlolchicken7478]

I don't support kickstarters where the promises and ambition seem to exceed existing products, or where the people behind the kickstarter haven't demonstrated that they can deliver the product on their own. Just because someone worked at a company that had a good product, there is no guarantee that the individual can do the same thing on their own.

[@wizardsofthetower3802]

I have had my share of KS, they never produced the promised product. And from my understanding in KS, you cannot get a refund. I have also seen major companies COUGH COUGH CATALYST GAMES.. that while they come through, they have had a few KS that are going on 2+ years past the promised delivery date. BUT, that said, the issue is not the company itself, but China and the manufacturing. Every time you back something either in KS or Backerkit, it is a gamble of the Horses.

[@FossilStudios316]

Oh, new sponsor lore dropped?!

[@euanthompson]

The thing that makes honey so weird and gallows funny is that the consumer wasn't scammed, the promoter was. The advertisers were scammed. The thing that makes it actually funny is I took one look, realised something was wrong, and when this news article broke I guessed what they did before watching the video. Techtubers who should have known better got scammed in a field they are supposed to know.

[@lun1tar]

Can I ask who you use to print your books? I’m just starting out with producing hard copies and am looking for reputable places. Thanks in advance!

[@Scott_Burton]

While D&D creators generally didn't get swept up in the Honey issue, they may have still been impacted. Many do have affiliate links that generate part of their income. Honey, being used by a viewer/audience member could snipe those affiliate links.

[@israelmorales4249]

As always a very good advice, thanks Luke and DM Lair Team

[@jierdareisa4313]

I do really love ALL the DM Lair videos!!!! ❤

[@skarkatrongard2344]

Thank you, Luke!

[@jwmmitch]

yeah, the thing that sucks is you need to make money. If someone offers you money you have to have enough privilege to discover a reason to deny that sponsor. Some youtubers make enough money to be picky, others have to take every penny they can get. I think this is less than ideal, but there's no blame

[@bamboozledgreatcrowd8982]

Kickstarter needs to be more responsible they allow unfulfilled projects by companies to kickstart other projects before fulfilling the first one. This should not be allowed.

[@leeterryjr]

Everyone makes mistakes, and you are only human, but I feel like people seem to forget that funding a kickstarter essentially funding a business. Even if the business is not a scam, it could still flop, and you should never invest anything that you can not afford to lose.

[@leatherguru8904]

Stopped doing KS, tired of waiting 3 years for 5 ttrpg's to get off their ass and make stuff. So, nope no more scams for me. And yes, if you didn't do it like Kelsey D, not for me. She had her stuff ready to print, not ready to think about it.

[@Iophiel]

lolz, when is a scholarship a sponsorship

[@YawdroGaming]

Mo' Honey, mo' problems. If more creators did more due diligence, they'd probably be in a better position. Even still, bad things happen and there's a lot of sneaky people out there. I'm not holding it against you.

[@PleasantSkulman]

I'm not a big Kickstarter user but I find TTRPG stuff geenrally reliable, especially as I normally only get PDF tier stuff so shipping normally doesn't pose a problem. Kickstarting board games? Iffy. Video games? Hell no!

[@MetaGrave]

Vagabond's Guide to Dalriada is having similar problems. Penny Dragon Games just took the money and ran off. It was funded quickly and made a LOT of money. It only recently got a (non-)update and it was a big nothing sandwich. Not gonna lie? It soured me on crowdfunding, even if this was an exception rather than a rule in my crowdfunding history.

[@SteakZ86]

It's the same company, if I remember rightly they had a bad actor within or related to the company do a lot of damage to the website/socials and a other stuff. As someone else said somehwere they probably went too big too quick but at least there was an update for Dalriada Along with Dalriada and Waystar, Petero's Tome of Adventure is another one from them where at least the PDF was released but no physical products yet although they did aim for this month with them based off an update in November.

[@NemoDtwenty]

If you are a person who believes you can buy the title Lord or Lady, you deserve to be liberated from part of your money.

[@demonic_myst4503]

While seem obvous to you established tittles did try to have people pose it iff as a real lord which is the problem with that

[@yellingintothewind]

One of the major concerns with that is it _is_ still illegal to pose as fake nobility in the commonwealth. As an outsider, I have _no_ idea if they actually would enforce that against tourists with a mostly-harmless gag. But the implications of exposing your customers to that kind of liability without letting them know...

[@TomNelsonBlueRider]

I've had mixed results with kickstarters. But I factor that in when I'm evaluating if I want to invest. $20 for an interesting one shot that I can give to my players from somebody I've never heard of? Ok, sure... that's about the price of a pack of smokes and I'll sacrifice a box of coffin nails for a chance to give my players an interesting session or something that I can mine for ideas for our regular session. More than that? it needs to be somebody that I've given to before and that I have faith will deliver (Like Metis) or somebody that as I look through their history I can see has successfully delivered in the past.

[@NemoDtwenty]

In general, if a kickstarter doesn't have a pdf done at least, I don't give them money. I can always buy the book later. Sorry, but if you don't even have a framework yet, Im not sending you money. I like supporting independents, but I had to work first before earning the money, so should you.

[@ebonstar3800]

Thanks for the info

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

Wow you're lucky you even get a chance to get a scholarship

[@bobmangm9883]

I gave my money to a Russiam Oligarch to help get oil out of Russia and I'm still waiting to get my money/oil.

[@Alive_I_Guess]

First! Or, well, second, after the pinned comment.

[@PHJcz]

🙂👍🏻

[@PatRiot-le7rd]

I think Mann Shorts had a Honey sponsorship, and now that channel is dead, so. Anyway, I love The DM Lair's content!

[@Cyber-Riot]

🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧

[@GuyUnderTheBridge]

Downvoting for BLATANT click-baiting.