Efficient Spey Casting: Part 5 - Why short Skagit heads aren't Skagit heads (They're Scandi heads)

[@cevisuals]

Peter - what you're describing is what OPST has already done with their Micro Series Commando Heads and tips as far as I can tell. They aren't true Scandi setups - more of a hybrid Skagit and Scandi is how it appears to me. I'm delving into Single Hand Micro Skagit and have to say learning how to spey cast with these short rods (7'6" to 8') has not been as easy as using longer two handed rods, but for those situations with no backcast room, especially on smaller streams while hiking here in Western Oregon, nothing can compare to OPST's Micro Series Commando Heads and interchangeable tips. I may be inaccurate in my assessment but for the kinds of waters I fish here, these heads and tips make my fishing experience on these smaller streams more enjoyable. I rewatch your Single Hand Spey casting videos almost daily and wanted to say thanks for that series

[@hooked4lifeca]

The concept has been around a long time as Guideline marketed their DDC system in both single and double hand versions. They were a sink tip setup and the belly section could be a floater, intermediate or an S3 sinker. The intermediate belly section got the most use in my kit. Tips ranged from floater to S4/5. Match the S4/5 tip to the S3 sinker belly and we have a triple density super sinker. The belly sections were custom cut so we could buy one that was too heavy for our rod, then cut the rear section back to get the right weight. That would give us a super short sink tip setup.

[@regularSenseAppeal]

What a fantastic video. Had to laugh when you pulled the loop on the model and it turned out to be tethered - yet at the exact same time I went "AHA so that is what happens!"

[@lassilehtineva3967]

Weird combo I used last season 13' 8/9 rod + 250gr Commando head + 18' 12g 4D sink tip from Guideline. Works well with classic underhand cast and transports 4"-5" scanditubes with no effort.

[@aaronwilliamwallace]

I have done the same thing myself. I bought a 390 grain Airlfo Switch Streamer (integrated Skagit line) and use 15ft Airflo tips on it. Personally I would prefer 12ft tips as extracting the 15ft ones on close quarters is difficult but it works well (wish Airlfo sold the 12ft tips they sell with their Rage kits separately). I use it on an 11ft 8/9wt Shakespeare Oracle Switch.

[@hooked4lifeca]

The Switch Streamer is an underrated line. It's great for tight quarters as we don't have to worry about getting the running loop in the guides.

[@academicmailbox7798]

Charles, the cast part of the equation is one thing. The fishing the fly part, is what we do as anglers.

[@academicmailbox7798]

So correct me if I'm wrong. I see what's going on here. What's going on, is that the 'fishing fly' itself. Is going to operate somewhat different in water conditions. Where the 15 foot length sinking tip is 'working' the fly. As opposed to the 10 foot length intermediate attachment is working the fly in the water. You can have the same swinging wet fly. That is not going to fish the same way. In terms of it's speed, overall behavior or position in the water column. Because you're working with a different tip attachment in the two cases.

[@academicmailbox7798]

So basically, what doesn't change in both cases. What does not change is the Switch rod. It's the same switch rod. What does not change is the cast. And the fly at the end of the line. For sake of argument. It is the same fly. What does change in the rigging. Is the tip attachment. It goes from fifteen foot sinking tip. To a ten foot intermediate. And while the difference might be subtle. It could also add up to be significant. In terms of fishing an entire day on the water. And depending on water conditions. The reason I'm sensitive to that I guess. Is that I spent a couple of years fishing various densities of 'full sinking' fly line. In order to teach myself to become accustomed. To the difference between an intermediate full sinking line. A slow sink, full sinking line. And the 'faster' types of full sinking line. And I'd have to conclude. That all other things being equal. The density of line that one is using (I'm talking only about my own 'single-handed' setup's). All other things being equal. The different densities of full sinking lines. Play an enormous part, in how the angler can fish differently. On the same stretch of river.

[@academicmailbox7798]

What I notice with the first set-up, it is around 520 grain weight as you say (and that probably matched up to your preference of using that 'eight weight' switch rod to fish with). The second setup was not too different in terms of overall weight. Around a 530 grain set up. Only a difference of 10 grains. However, in order to change from 15 foot sinking tip. To 10 foot intermediate tip. You had to do a bit of maneuver there. In order to come up with a system overall. That operated 'the same' from a 'casting' point of view. However, it would operate a bit different from a 'fishing' point of view.

[@academicmailbox7798]

And I can understand that. I often took two or three 'single' handed fly rods with me. When fishing a stretch of river closeby. And I purposefully rigged them with different line densities. For example, on one occasion I might have fished the piece of river with an intermediate rod, a slow sinking and a fast sink. And I purposefully denied myself the use of 'sinking tip' lines or full floating lines. For the past couple of years. In order to fully get the time to experience. What these full sinking fly lines could do. Or not do. Bearing in mind too, that my 'fishing style' would have evolved over many decades now. By using only full floating line systems. And sinking tip lines. Make no mistake about it. I had always assumed that a 'sinking tip' line system. Was adjacent or similar to full sinking line systems. And that assumption was the first thing that was shattered. When I first got my hands on full sinking lines. And used them inter-changeably with full floating and sinking tip lines.

[@academicmailbox7798]

It's only when you really fish with a full sinking line for a while on a river. You understand how much of an innovation, the sinking tip system is. Having said that. There are instances where a full sinking fly line. Can enable the angler to 'cast' backways to normal. The full sinking fly line can enable the angler to make short upstream casts to places. The angler may not have casted to before. The water current affects a full sinking line much less than it would any floating, or sinking tip line system. And the other thing that was interesting to me. Was that full sinking line systems. Could be used to fish from 'dry land' versus wading in the water. In total, what I learned from using full sinking line systems. Is it changed dramatically the way that the angler has to look at their water. And how they approach it.

[@christiancherry1377]

Are you familiar with the Loop SDS lines? Or the Guideline ULS? Guideline is making lots of compact scandi bodies now. I use them on all the trout spey I do here in Oregon. Thx for another great video! You've made a huge difference in my fishing.

[@hooked4lifeca]

I used to be Guideline pro staff back about 15 years ago, but I haven't kept up with their product lines. Then they had the DDC system which was available in both single and double hand versions. Sounds like the same thing in a newer version.

[@christiancherry1377]

@@hooked4lifeca Used a Scout for snake rolls today in your honor!

[@jaaron2834]

Hey there,… been watching your videos for a bit … glad to see how you explain various lines … whereas when I’m at the casting pools… I find that the people that are supposedly helping you ,… I find that they are a bit disingenuous and not really helping you … these individuals tell you only parts of what you inquire about …. Hmmmmmm… isn’t that interesting…? I’ve found your videos are well explained and very helpful indeed….! Thanks 👍😎🤙

[@lesterma1608]

If you were to use mono running line what lb weight would that be?

[@hooked4lifeca]

Lighter heads would be around 30 lb. and for heavier heads between 40 and 50lb.