The Extinction of Experience: Christine Rosen on the Impact of Technology on Society

[@matias.salimbene]

Brilliant conversation. I enjoyed every minute of it. Thank you. I didn't know Christine, thanks for having her. I'll will check her podcast.

[@shmachable]

I agree with so much of what is said in this conversation. However, this stay-at-home mom who was raised by a stay-at-home mom bristles at the line "a lot of waisted talent in those kitchens." Raising children is certainly not the only important way for a woman to give meaningful contributions to the world. But if that was the primary way in which she contributed to the world we say her talent was waisted? My view is quite different. It is beautifully expressed in this quote from Neal A. Maxwell: "When the real history of mankind is fully disclosed, will it feature the echoes of gunfire or the shaping sound of lullabies? The great armistices made by military men or the peacemaking of women in homes and in neighborhoods? Will what happened in cradles and kitchens prove to be more controlling than what happened in congresses? When the surf of the centuries has made the great pyramids so much sand, the everlasting family will still be standing, because it is a celestial institution, formed outside telestial time." Not all of us have the opportunity to form our own families or to stay at home with our children we adore. But anything you do to strengthen your own family or the families around you will not be effort waisted. Ever.

[@patredoski5809]

Wish I could give you a million thumbs up!!

[@dub47usmc]

I took a “Meaning of Life” philosophy elective in college about five years ago and one of the principal texts of the course was Nozick’s thought experiment of the “Experience Machine” and it has stuck with me ever since. Love to hear it mentioned randomly and to hear discourse about it!

[@tomburroughes9834]

I remember that point by Nozick: a reminder of what an astonishingly acute philosophy Nozick was, and how good Anarchy, State and Utopia was as a book and takedown of egalitarianism and most of what governments do.

[@LumenMichaelOne]

Brilliant discourse on an increasingly, important subject. Thank you Uncommon Knowledge ... 👏👏👏

[@VytisMaleckasBrunius76]

So charming! Feeling Human again. Thank you Christine!

[@cmiksee1932]

I suspect that the post-iPhone generation will limit their kids’ screens as they realize just what was been taken from them. So pleased to see Christine here on such an important topic. Avid listener of both this show and the Commentary podcast.

[@ropeburnsrussell]

Thanks for interviewing Christine, she is a very smart person

[@robkocol5664]

So many young people lack conflict resolution skills. Instead, they opt for conflict avoidance.

[@meredithchildress8001]

I'd love to watch a debate between Rosen and Andersson! I agree with Rosen but can't help but express my own disappointment at being older with lots of experience and even wisdom that nobody wants to hear. The last few generations think they know everything that's important to know and don't need me to tell them anything. I have been encouraged by my grandchildren to write down my life experiences, but I have the impression it would never be read. I enjoyed this video as I like all the videos on Hoover. Thanks for the intelligent conversations.

[@vvh1094]

Wonderful conversation.

[@vestrock8378]

One of the best interviews Peter Robinson has done. I enjoyed every second and it's the total truth that she has written about in her book and spoken about in this interview

[@kekewilliams5017]

Wow! That was a fantastic, thoughtful interview. I am excited to get Christine’s book

[@nmills5203]

Great discussion, the shame is we've lost the ability to communicate. I travel to London by train and as an older commuter I see first hand that people never take their eyes off their phones and talk to one another. When I strike up a conversation, and I do it everday, you can see their faces light up and a smile as if they've not spoken to another human being in months.

[@yolandaphillips7511]

Wow 😮 I thoroughly enjoyed this talk. Thank you!! Waiting in anticipation for the book’s release. 🙃

[@gerardkiff2026]

What whole we do without Peter! Glad to see my generation stepping up to the plate.

[@danielhall3105]

I watch the Commentary Magazine online podcast daily with various mixtures of Jpod, Matt, Seth, Abe and Christine. It's nice to see and hear her "long form" in this interview with Peter. This discussion reminds me of "The Education of Henry Adams", which book I read as an undergrad way back in 1970. Though born in 1838 Adams felt that he had somehow missed the 19th century altogether and was thrust directly from the 18th century into the 20th "with his hand on the lever and his eye on the turn in the road". The change in the rate of change. From Google's AI smarty pants we learn; "In calculus, this concept is represented by the second derivative of a function, which measures how the slope of the function (the first derivative) is changing." My father was born at home on a dairy farm in Western New York in 1927. There was no electricity or phone at the farm. He served at the end of WW2 and went on to a very successful career as an electrical contractor. He had a bag phone in his car which he never learned to make outgoing calls on but could answer it just fine. I suppose we'll adapt. 😃

[@Kyzyl_Tuva]

Christine is brilliant. Loved her book and I listen to every episode of Commentary everyday (just wish JP would let her talk more 😊)

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

Heidegger raised all these issues over 60 years ago. He described technology's grip on our practices as the 'technological understanding of being', which disrupts and marginalises traditional practices. He finished his last interview with Der Spiegel with these words: 'Only a god can save us now.'

[@nathanngumi8467]

Very engaging, looking forward to reading the book!

[@asdisskagen6487]

This interview is extremely timely; these days I find myself more and more alarmed by the state of society and the diminishment of competence at all levels. Hopefully, sufficient numbers of people will wake up to this threat and change course.

[@reginamemoriesforever-vc8ql]

It’s a pity that people today always need to calculate their words, the guest kept saying “i am not a fear monger”, “technology is useful in many ways”,… Stop cushioning!! If technology and most specifically social media is harmful for humans, we should just be able to say it and have a discussion!! If technology makes less humane, less intelligent, less competent in interpersonal rations etc… Then technology is actually not that good! Let’s stop compromising our thought and speech, let’s just say things as they are. The guest is fully entitled to her opinion especially when she brings research to support her points. There’s absolutely nothing that can compare or come close to real human interaction and relationships.

[@janetmary862]

How do the tech companies know who is under 16 so that they can restrict access? The only way is for everyone to have a digital id - facial recognition? Then everyone online is identified. That sounds dystopian too.

[@DanishAli-nz3ks]

Mind boggling chat... Stay blessed ❤

[@lannyfaulkner6697]

Rich food for a hungry mind! Thank you for this!

[@bethanyc1647]

Wow. Fantastic convo. I'm a millennial with 4 kids hoping to find my "amish" group as my kids grow up!

[@PieterHanja]

Great conversation!

[@benjamindover4337]

Great discussion

[@literaturecomealive]

Great discussion, thank you. I wonder if "character-formation", however, though central to proper education, isn't something secondary in itself, ie, arising from a notion of the GOOD? Which is, in turn, based on the truth of things? Can't wait to read the book!

[@mcnallyaar]

Solid Gold.

[@kabaduck]

I thought this was about the acquired lifetime experience of somebody versus technology instead of just the experience of interacting with a human versus technology.

[@neotao9]

As we watch this on a device

[@mulen-x8u]

Thank you! It seems to me in generally there are three approaches or reactions "on the impact of technology on society": moderate prohibition (conservative way), total regulation (authoritative way), and natural evolution (democratic way).

[@aodh_séamus]

Interesting interview, thanks. I'm enjoying the book. Also, Christine is a babe.

[@lesliecunliffe4450]

“The human body is the best picture of the human soul.” (Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1953, Philosophical Investigations)

[@DanSme1]

Six Stars ⭐️ ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

[@ahhammouti3928]

Mr Peter Robinson in your program those quotes aren't only quotes given specificity& category to the progrm not only acdemic maneer given references not only trees that hides the forest but few ones are the monuments i appreciate the program the quotes tenageer a competition about the famous quotes 🙂🙂🙂

[@deanvanlaarhoven1413]

23:12 perhaps the two of you are not conservative enough. For both of you to agreeingly laugh at the thought that there was a lot of wasted talent in the kitchen is for both of you to ignore the fact that the first and best and highest call of a woman is to be tending to her home and her children and even homeschooling perhaps in addition to being industrious in many ways that also can earn her money from home. To say that because she's at home is wasted talent is to not know The good godly calling she has been given to support her husband.(Period)... and enable him to successfully leave the home alone with her. Surely neither one of you is to this extent ignorant.

[@ahhammouti3928]

Mr P Robinson given my opinion about the program as aamateur it's normal end of the year, many revues given personality book film of the year etc knowing that a program 60 mn requiring more than 10 hours🥇

[@rogermenendez4052]

And yet, spirituality is making a big comeback.

[@ahhammouti3928]

Mr P Robinson speaking about the competition at school the succesful dreamer 2011 has few anecdotes to tell you we know each other since a long time 🙂🙂🙂🙂

[@deanvanlaarhoven1413]

31:03-33:40 THIS GIRL IS ON FIRE 💫💯🔥🔥🔥🔥🌟🤩

[@unfgreen]

“Listen to your pediatrician” No! They created mass peanut allergies

[@tomburroughes9834]

Peter Robinson is spot on in mentioning the lack of focus on family and faith in this election. (I am sure there are exceptions.)

[@ABeautifulHeartBeat]

Anticipate Needs & Exceed Expectations

[@lgude]

The climax of bullfight is called the moment of truth because either the bullfighter or the bull dies. Perhaps both. The moment one is born, or indeed conceived, death is a certainty. And that is as it should be.

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

47:02 What Gen z does this? It must be nice to run in such circles....Among the elite and phds

[@peterwiles1299]

Connects strongly with the psychiatrist Iain McGilchrist is saying. It’s the spiritual values of friendship, righteousness, beauty, wonderment and awe that the human condition needs to be sane and a functioning society. AI and the screen are toxic.

[@roberthumphreys7977]

There may very well be vast amounts of information available to people compared to what we had access to in the past, but I suggest that there is zero evidence people possess more knowledge and understanding than they had in the past. So far in the "information age", our population is best characterized as information rich, knowledge and understanding poor. I think the expectation early in the information age, at least, what the creators promised, perhaps sincerely (to give them the benefit of a doubt) was that eventually the population will move to the knowledge and understanding age. There is no sign of it on the horizon; in fact, quite the contrary. .

[@harolyngilles5078]

Asking the government to force the tech companies to enforce age restrictions is bad. (Not a compelling argument, I agree.) Do we make alcohol or automobile producer responsible for underage usage?

[@reallife7235]

The Robert Nozick question was asked a long time ago in the Star Trek movie "Generations". It's called the "ribbon" or the "Nexus" and Whoopie Goldberg is in the section as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmfbfaWDo96em7M Watch what Kirk says AFTER he jumps that ravine with his horse. All of AI is the very same. Much akin to Thorsten Veblen's "teetering superstructures" found in Heilbroner's "Worldly Philosophers" book. The only thing that's real in life is Matthew 7:21. It defines the Garden of Eden, judgment day and the Cross.

[@robkocol5664]

Stop being a spectator of life. It's always best to be a full participant.

[@rednose1966]

I think what you said is perfect. The classic is there’s the people they watch what happens. There’s the people that make things happen. And the people that wonder what happened. I’m definitely a doer I wouldn’t call one or the other superior. And I’ll tell you that I appreciate the videos that I see of the world at different parts of where I live and I will never actually lay my eyes on. I appreciate the beauty in the world that I’ll never see in any other way than through a screen

[@academicmailbox7798]

Why does this researcher imagine that going back towards 'family' in an age of technology, is always going to be a better thing? What social groups 'at some older age and generation levels' do with technology, and networked share platform technology, has gone largely un-noticed or un-studied. Why is that? Well, early on in social media research, Danah Boyd in early 2000's was a sort of lone pioneer out there on this new horizon (Howard Rheingold had completely a thesis on SMS text messaging and youth culture circa 2002, at exact same time as Danah had started to look at teenage youth culture and social networks). But a lot of it got focused on the youth. So why isn't it studied, the effects of these networked technologies on older age groups, in seniors for example? Because then one gets into tricky, quagmire kinds of areas, where these 'group' share systems materialized within existing social hierarchy systems, of multi-generational families. The earlier studies on youth culture (youths literally having separate or distinct social spaces or bubbles, different to their family 'real world' one, and the potential dangers of that). Nobody has really discovered as yet, the level of ganging up, bullying, coercion and group intimidation that senior citizens and retired folk now are capable of, in these 'long distance' reach types of electronic systems. The movie I want to watch is 'Grumpy Old Men : The Pandemic Edition'. These family centric group share platforms, used by retired people, older people, senior citizens. What? Did we assume that seniors were incapable of the same or worse behavior online, than even groups of teens can be? And why it's hard to study this, or even expose it. Is it normally takes 'family' drama which is already volatile enough, it puts that into the pressure cooker of a group online platform, or 'private group', and turns up the temperature to full. What's really messy I've discovered about seniors living online, is it brings a whole new meaning to 'two-faced-ness'. Aged and skilled practitioners of being 'nice', have a mechanism in this new 'share' type of world, to plaster all of your personal news, details about estates and estate planning, ownership of assets, pension benefits, health benefits and all sorts of otherwise 'private' stuff. It's now too easy to hit the publish button, share with a few dozen extended family members (along with the Christmas turkey photo, or a view of the sunset). And there's nothing one can do about it. All of your 'laundry' is left hanging out there, typed in text underneath turkey photos, and snowman pictures (like I said, senior citizenry expertise honed as only seniors can do, over decades of wrapping up 'bad' or 'extreme cruelty' in a wrapping paper of 'nice'). It was apparent during the pandemic, as we were all encouraged to create these group things, to relate to each other and reach out from a distance (a great concealment or cover for 'bad behaviors' right there), like it was 'the same' as face-to-face. And some embraced the new tech in a genuinely kind manner. Others inside families, and it doesn't require a genius normally to know who the culprits are, as families know families. Others saw this as a brand new vista and expanse, a new landscape in which to engage in super mischief. Like they had never enjoyed or benefitted from prior. Yet, whilst Boyd, Rheingold and lots of others researched trends emerging in youth culture in different countries, twenty-five years ago. This one is different, no one wants to grasp this nettle, as it involves looking straight back at ourselves. It's official in my humble view, elder abuse can go virtual, and become network supercharged. I've witnessed it, and it's a brand new departure. Plus, as existing forty, fifty and sixty year olds mature further into older age, expect it to become even more common and widespread.

[@simonleung2130]

Our memory are now the data in the internet

[@markalan7265]

The essence of technology is by no means technological.

[@deanvanlaarhoven1413]

31:00 " More online" does not make more experience- Is not experience at all. It is simply more voyeurism. Nothing more.

[@nounverbnoun]

Greed ruins everything. Families are unnecessary to profit. Short term.

[@EricRobinsoncav3manb0b]

Audible credit spent.

[@bernardzsikla5640]

I would argue that the feminist movement of the 1960's really did NOT help society NOR even women. A limited number of women may have had different choices but for the majority of women the choices became far worse. "Preverse and unintended consequences" regarding the feminist movement.

[@doctormister169]

I agree with the primary point of what she is saying, but she paints a broad brush in her point about generational differences- “it was all normal for me as Gen X …[but everything tumbled downhill after]”; there’s a massive difference between a 30-40 year old millennial today and a 20 year old Gen Z, I would hypothesize. I think we see a few overlapping ‘deteriorations’ but this is still an emerging issue in my opinion with no peak yet reached.

[@jesuslovesaves2682]

Human and technology frequently have mixed results. Certainly, the disconnect from nature and complete incorporation into technology is destructive to the human soul. But often when human get a new piece of technology we misuse it. 1 Enoch certainly had a point in this regard. Technology is often powerful and we often are not virtuous enough to use it wisely. The Lord of the Rings made a similar point about centralizing power. So, does’t the Book of Revelation (Rev 13 and 17/18) and the Book of Daniel.

[@maggen_me7790]

You see these kids nowadays propped up in the backseat of land rovers with screens, iphones and popcorn. When they get out they´r on a el scooter... Lazy life and entertained to "death"

[@jefflinsk8032]

Agree with everything except when religion becomes the solution.

[@craigsproston7378]

Where is her data evidence like Thomas Sowell would provide? It's just seems observational and subjective.

[@malikashiqui]

She is a historian. He is an economist.

[@ahhammouti3928]

First allow me to wish to you & to your guests best 2025 second The Extinction of Experience your program is an invitation a Praise an electrical defibrillation for knowledge and experience you and your guests are not beginners. I have at least two major testimonials related to the theme a PhD chemistry also director and a director of the electromencanical design office, that you are not dealing with a trivial theme but a theme in line with modernity that shows what that shows, the quality of your program

[@jesuslovesaves2682]

29:57 Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand Jesus advice to the rich young man to sell his possession and give them to the poor. He doesn’t understand how Jesus was more rich than Herod or Mother Theresa than Taylor Swift.

[@jesuslovesaves2682]

I know many poor people who live online and most of them are suicidal. Even young ones have their health fail, addiction to being online, porn are rampant and this online life satisfies so little mass drug use is the norm. Yet, in all that they are still unhappy to the point of desiring death. Meanwhile, the religious poor I know are extremely happy and full of joy. The spiritual satisfies more so than a material or virtual world is able. This is not to discount lack of basic needs that should be fulfilled by those with excess. But many of those with massive excess are still miserably unhappy to the point of drugs and desiring death as well. Unfortunately, many think that will be the end…