Does Science Point to God? Eric Metaxas and Stephen Meyer Discuss

Bestselling authors Eric Metaxas and Stephen Meyer have a free-wheeling discussion of science, faith, and God during a special episode of "Socrates in the City" taped live at the 2022 Westminster Conference on Science and Faith in the greater Philadelphia area in April 2022. Meyer is author of "The Return of the God Hypothesis: Three Scientific Discoveries that Reveal the Mind Behind the Universe." Eric Metaxas is a radio talk show host and author of "Is Atheism Dead?"
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[@richardbristol452]

Dr. Meyer’s work has literally changed my life. I’ve read all of his books and have been fascinated by each of them. My library has expanded far beyond his works, but I always return to him for my foundation. Dr. Meyer has been instrumental in the restoration of my faith.

[@nikkivenable73]

Are his books pretty accessible to an average mind? I’m not a scientist and I detest math but I’m absolutely fascinated by this subject.

[@sanjitmaurya862]

N in

[@ferrisbeuler8657]

I agree completely, Richard. I'm still too read Return of the God Hypothesis.

[@ferrisbeuler8657]

​@@nikkivenable73 I would say it is. I did study genetics at university and I'm also a computer engineer but my teenagers also read it. Start with watching videos on Signature in the Cell. Then the book will be easier to read. 😊

[@colinthomson5358]

I think it was written for the lay person. So, you will probably need to have an above average IQ. And if you read books, any books, then you are smarter than 40% of people. If your reading involves classics and plenty non-fiction then you should be good to go!

[@gordonicus4637]

Common sense come full circle... I'm with you all the way Dr Meyer.🙂

[@dantheman909]

Stephen's work has given me so much more confidence in my faith and in science. I send your books to all my atheist friends and it makes for a great conversation starter. One friend of mine has even come to believe in God (after years of debate and discussion), partly due to the work you've put out, and also Jordan Peterson, John Lennox, James Tour, and Frank Turek. Please don't stop pursuing this wonderful calling God has placed on your life. It's such a blessing to the Kingdom.

[@SuperMaranatha1]

Without education we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously. - G.K. Chesterton

[@abdelw]

Why be a Christian? It does not mean any sense. Islam is a much more logical step forward. The numerical aspect of the Quran is pure exctasy for scientific minds.

[@michaelbabbitt3837]

Great perspective. I came to Christ through apologetics and people like Stephen Meyer exemplify the best. And I love the others you mention. Such great illuminaries who point to the Living Source of Illumination.

[@tonymaurice4157]

Abiogenesis fails

[@jw2442]

Don't forget The Holy Spirit's work in drawing your friend to The LORD

[@pattieasterday6739]

I always enjoy listening to Dr. Meyer. He is brilliant but remains humble and respectful at all times. He is also able to explain mind bending concepts and truth in an easier to understand way. As I look through the Hubble photographs while reading Psalm 104 my perspective on our Creator is magnified! Thanks for posting this video!

[@donnylastella9441]

My question is simply why are they horrified that there is a God. And don't they know just how incredibly, wonderfully we are made...in His image. Then add how much he loves us...enough to inject himself into his own creation and show us this immeasurable love. What a glorious mighty God we serve, hallelujah. Oh let me add that without his holy spirit dwelling in us who believe this world would probably not exist anymore . No one can measure the depths of his Grace and mercy he shows us just by keeping everything in it's place,the world spinning is just one example. Thanks gents for this conversation. God's blessings always ✝️🤟💪🏼🔥🔥

[@imafeltersnatch7634]

Why would any one horrified of something that doesn't exist? Sounds more like your personal fears

[@thedynamicsolo4232]

@@imafeltersnatch7634 Of course we cannot prove a negative, but tell me where it all started before the beginning? You have a supernatural force or aliens. You really have no other choice. Can you be intellectually honest here? You present an ad hominem against Donny, but you pose no cogent response.

[@pamwren6866]

Because they don't want to admit the possibility that they might have to submit to the moral judgement of a supreme intelligence.

[@MikeB3542]

"Horrified" is hyperbole. Scientists have been conditioned to look for naturalistic explanations for physical behavior, be it planetary motion, electricity and magnetism, chemical reactions, geologic processes, the weather and climate, and the development of life on Earth. And so far, that conditioning has been fruitful. Naturalistic explanations of physical phenomenon have proven not only to make accurate predictions and explain what we see, it leads to the right sorts of questions...questions that deepen our insight. The trouble is that doesn't give God much to do...there is simply no evidence that He and his angels (nor the devil and his minions) intervenes in the world. If He did create the Universe, he seems to have gotten bored and moved onto other projects. Let me turn this around a bit. I would posit that the reason the religiously-minded are horrified by Evolution is that it implies that this world has had death and disease, pain and suffering, predation and parasitism, EONS before anything resembling homo sapiens showed up. That these things are features rather than bugs. Which is to say that man isn't the cause if a "fallen" world. And without the Fall, there is no need for blood sacrifice to atone for sin. No need for a Savior. (Which isn't to say that the teachings of Jesus have no value.)

[@JonHuhnMedical]

I suspect pride plays a big part as well. Note the smug condescension used by so many.

[@donnaratke3627]

Both Eric Metaxas and Stephen Meyer have done an excellent job of delving into this subject and offering evidence to support the concept that science does indeed point to God.

[@MrDoyle07]

Stephen Meyer, among others who are coming along too, with his deep connection to sophistication of truth is truly a gift to all people who refuse to see what we know as life as a product of a mere weaving of random chance.

[@elizabethriordan4355]

Amazing conversation! So appreciate the ability of both of these to speak so eloquently and with so much humor. This was a joy to listen to.

[@bobcirba2626]

Meyer is a hero of mine, and he has been one for decades. He is on the same plane as James Dobson, Tucker Carlson and Thomas Sowell for me

[@joshuarowe4453]

I so appreciate Eric’s humor

[@kenjohn487]

Eric makes the session fun, Stephen makes it interesting ... great combo

[@drchristopherjsernaque]

Excellent to see Dr. Meyer and Eric Metaxas again! They are both excellent presenters. I have had the honor of meeting Dr. Meyer and he is a large-hearted and brilliant man. May God bless him and his loved ones.

[@PixelsofLight]

Meyer with wisdom and eloquence, Metaxas with wit and a knack for drawing deep answers out of his guests. Thanks for sharing another great interview.

[@ronaldmorgan7632]

Love these two guys. I always learn something. Can't wait for the feature length film.

[@Genesis-ij7hf]

Excellent interview! Brilliant Eric Metaxas and Stephen Meyer! Really enjoyed the whole program! Thank You Discovery Science for posting this video!

[@IndradhanuSingingHeart369]

I absolutely LOVE Socrates in the city and am very grateful to be a member of this growing community.

[@xandercrofts]

I love Stephen Meyer's humility and compassion toward those who still hold to a materialistic world view. A person defending what they've believed for years is naturally gonna feel a little resistant to evidence against it. Most, I'm convinced, don't continue to press their cases with conscious dishonesty or evil. They're just biased like we all are and want what they've believed to be true. Though what they put forth may sometimes seem like nonsense to us, we have to remember that what we put forth may sometimes seem like nonsense to them who struggle with believing in the supernatural. Let us not grow mocking toward those who struggle, but rather let us be grateful that after a time of darkness in the history of science, God now seems to be using the same tool to point to Himself again ❤️

[@attackhelicopter-up3dh]

I have the same feelings for you my friend, its sad to see people believe in a god. But i love you!

[@mikelabor7688]

What a great interview! An ellipse has "two centers", which is twice as perfect as a circle. . . I recall teaching young kids about "order and life via brute chance over time". "Picture a fleet of huge cargo planes, circling the plains of India. Keep tossing bricks out the door, until the brick "automatically" stacks itself into the Taj Mahal. . .

[@josephtucker9612]

I use what I have learned from Stephen Meyer and James Tour as a conversation STOPPER with atheists.

[@hgillung]

Yes indeed. Well said

[@higiniomorales459]

"But the heavens talked back", very true and king David said something very similar once in Psalm 19.

[@obeddanielbenjamin6947]

Wow those backrdrop, lighting and seats onstage are looking fantastically beautiful!

[@georginacollymore4474]

This is amazing, it just adds to the truth of Jesus our creator. It's such a shame more people don't know about these 2 men. I become a christian several years back now. And of course it was Jesus that chose me. But scientific evidence like this helped me in my journey to faith. God keep blessing these two men. 🙏

[@BCSTS]

I do not see Jesus as Creator, but as 2nd Person of The Holy Trinity ( God the Father/Creator, Jesus the Son, and The Holy Spirit ) 3 persons in 1 God.

[@mitchharpur]

Just fantastic….love it love it love it. Thank you for taking the time to have these conversations. They are gold.

[@petervang8127]

This is definitely worth a second and third listen. God bless both gentlemen.

[@dennisboyd9557]

God’s Word Is The Light Of Truth Some men find it, & their eyes are open, others deny it & live in darkness

[@pamwren6866]

Thank you, Eric for bringing these ideas to the broad audience of the internet!

[@ultramarinechaplain88]

I really hope in the near future, they could get hugh ross, stephen meyer and william lane craig together just to have a nice 2-3 hour discussion. That would be incredible

[@winston9505]

Two of my favorite thinkers and authors. Thanks guys! I enjoyed it immensely!

[@cliffhoelzer6895]

One must remember that God exists, not within our universe, but outside our physical universe as the creator. God therefore can fine tune and reach within his creation to change, modify or use processes to move it in the direction God wills it to be.

[@thedynamicsolo4232]

Can you expand on how you know God is not with us in this Universe?

[@mileswebster7651]

Really inspiring and entertaining! Thank you 🙏 ❤

[@suburbangorilla5515]

Thank you! Thank you!

[@bradabar2012]

I bought both of their books today, on kindle, so it's good to see them here talking on stage.

[@paulanelson1629]

God gave us the intelligence to to discover all HIS CREATION and define it.

[@RodMartinJr]

When sitting in *_calculus_* class, first year of college, the professor presented us with the graph of a function's derivative which was profoundly *_simple,_* but with one electrifying peculiarity. The graph consisted of a line with a hole in its middle. The line consisted of all points on the *_x_* axis (where *_y_* = zero), except where *_x_* = zero! At that central position, the value of *_y_* was no longer zero, but plus-or-minus *_infinity!_* At first, I did not understand why this *_discontinuity_* was so personally important to me. I suspect that, to most of the class, the graph appeared imminently boring. Something inside me rejected such a characterization. In fact, all the hairs on the back of my arms and neck stood on end with such ferocity that they itched. A few weeks later, I finally understood what the *_Holy Spirit_* had been attempting to tell me on that evening's class. The parallel meaning -- the metaphor -- was that for every value of *_ego_* except zero, the individual has *_zero power over physical reality._* But, for the individual with *_zero ego,_* they have *_infinite potential power over physical reality._* I realized only years later that this was a description of the *_"narrow gate"_* described by Christ. And this matched what I had experienced 17 years before that night in calculus class -- three miracles on Wilshire Boulevard, in the broad light of day, that shaped the remainder of my life. There is a mathematical connection between us and creation and it involves three values which have an uncanny connection with one another -- zero, one and infinity. REFERENCES: *_The Logical Christian_* (hardcover) *_The Science of Miracles_* (hardcover, paperback, ebook) *_Four Elements of God_* (hardcover, paperback, ebook) *_Perfect Zero_* (hardcover, paperback, ebook)

[@johnsteichen5239]

This special incite into special obscure knowledge is called Gnosticism I think

[@higiniomorales459]

Not quite, it's just a simple revelation granted to him by the Holy Spirit because of his understanding of calculus. It's not contradicting scripture, it's just helping him see a certain verse from a different perspective in a way that does not violate it's meaning. Gnosticism is: "a prominent heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partly of pre-Christian origin. Gnostic doctrine taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit."

[@michaelsheets6823]

Their discussion presented an intriguing perspective on the argument, and it is evident that science does give proof for God's presence.

[@noideer4865]

It is an interesting phenomenon that the truth is beautiful. Thank you for such a beautiful conversation.

[@lvvonschill9772]

Worth my time and effort listening to this discussion.

[@louisemcleod458]

Metaxas and Meyer's conversations have been both illuminating and motivating.

[@IntellectualPhysics]

Between the universal law of " Irreducible complexity " coupled alongside the universal dynamic of " Fine tuning " there is no question whatsoever whether a Supreme Intelligence exists and is undoubtedly the fundamental catalyst regarding life as we have come to know it in this day and age. Nathan Barnes: Intellectual Physics

[@vladtheemailer3223]

Irreducible complexity is not a law. Fine tuning is an argument.

[@Emoji-ATTrailangel]

Thank you Eric and Stephen, for a wonderfully thoughtful and respectful powerful scientific and theological discussion on the existence of God and intelligent design of creation❣️❤️👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@mehdibaghbadran3182]

We’re here to go forward through our time’s, and each day’s we’re one steps forward, depends on the information which we reached, now in a present time ,

[@martinvannijnatten8134]

thank you both for such an enjoyable and inspirational conversation with so much wisdom expressed.

[@glennwallace1365]

What a tangled web we weave.

[@macialtenwerth1530]

Metaxas and Meyer's talk presented a unique viewpoint on how science and faith may collaborate to give a better knowledge of the universe.

[@solideogloria5553]

@ discovery science, love your content so much, please consider make all vids available for youtube auto subtitle (youtube can auto translate) so that my relatives who don't speak english can also be blessed by your great works. thanks a million

[@zac3392]

ÓRALE

[@charlesmorris8791]

Great information, thank you both very much for sharing. May God Bless you and your loved ones... Maranatha!

[@darlenecase5688]

Incredible!!! So thankful there is a God. Of course, without Him there would be nothing to be thankful for. 🤷‍♂

[@gladyssigler1918]

The argument between Metaxas and Meyer was crucial, and it was heartening to witness two men of such ability and expertise engage in such a polite and meaningful discourse.

[@suzannebernard8894]

Metaxas and Meyer's conversation was quite informative.

[@starflower9563]

Thank you!

[@tyton3]

I love my brothers and sisters in Christ. I’ll see you all, one day.

[@jocelynwehner2163]

Science points to God, and more research and debate are needed to acquire a clearer grasp of the link between science and faith.

[@samueloconner1482]

No it doesn't

[@shirleymason7697]

I’m so pleased to hear these men. Thank you.😊

[@manojranchord7336]

Oh that you would do a 'Socrates in the City' session with George Gilder concerning the application of cutting edge Information Theory to the realm of economics and society, Eric!! This would help disseminate his pathbreaking insights to a more general audience in line with the overall thrust of the ID movement toward a Theistic explanation of reality regarding creation and the creator. Modern economics is also much in need of your satirical humour of the status quo pointing to a more coherent alternative perspective and interpretation.

[@3rdFlammenwerferangriffBattali]

No joke not kidding this was an ad i got on a markiplier video. I was busy so i couldnt skip it until like 2 minutes in when i was able to click the skip button. For some reason i decided to stay there and listen to the entire 1hr and 17 min add. Never done that

[@robertmize327]

Eric, I knew you would thrive outside the city, lol. Stephen Meyer and Discovery Institute shine brightly.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

1:15:55 "Reality, What A Concept!" Robin Williams

[@09reason]

When one looks at the results of the famous "Double Slit" Experiment, reality depends on consciousness.

[@Mikmak-ni5yt]

I appreciate the humility and intelligence of Dr Meyer - Metaxis less considered responses and arrogance are one of the things that keep me from ever wanting to reconsider my associating with Christianity. While perhaps there is an order the universe which may point to a Designer I suspect Metaxis doesn’t know him/her.

[@verliejaeger2371]

Science and faith are not mutually exclusive, and science can point to a higher force.

[@libbyjames4513]

These videos are very helpful and informative for regular people like me

[@kalicorkery8274]

Their study and arguments are compelling, and it is evident that science has revealed a well-calibrated and created world, which is proof of a divine creator.

[@jessicachurch9359]

They have demonstrated how science may be utilized to support the concept of a divine creator.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

The problem with The Multiverse is, as Dr. Michael G Stauss has said "There is No Observational Evidence." Its a wonderful Theory, The writers of Stargate SG1 used it All The Time.

[@fredricthomas6654]

I don't think a multiverse is evidence against God if it was true. Because if God has no beginning or end and is an infinite being, it makes sense to have an eternal universe or multiverse...

[@dalesalazar3831]

Brilliant stuff!! Thanks to both of you for such an astonishing video

[@jounisuninen]

Faith is the gift from God, but I think that it is also great to have these compelling scientific evidences of God's creation. It's great to have this strong scientific backing in the discussions with evolutionists. Understanding that science testifies for Intelligent Design may for many be the first step in the way of meeting Jesus Christ.

[@bretloomis8881]

bBLIND FAITH IIS the essence of current origins .

[@samueloconner1482]

But there isn't compelling scientific evidence. Blind Faith is the only thing that points to a god.

[@beatrizweddle3888]

It is a delight to debate whether science points to God.

[@raymondnielsen7125]

It's good to see such well-known people debating such an important issue, and their research and arguments are worth examining.

[@thegeniusfool]

The revision of history is amazing here….

[@annabellnikolaus3610]

Meyer, a notable Christian apologist, and philosopher have maintained that the universe's complexity demonstrates the existence of a higher force.

[@bluejysm2007]

Great discussion: The panspermia theory is an option often argued by materialist scientists because they hate to acknowledge an ID creator and a beginning of the universe which discards undirect processes, and accepts fine-tuning.

[@josephbrown9685]

@bob ketter I’ve been thinking about this. Some of these models that Stephen describes others using in an attempt to justify pure materialism sounds so outlandish and nonsensical, yet some of these very same people refuse to acknowledge the possibility of Bible miracles. They seriously entertain the ideas of bouncing universes, multiverses, aliens, etc. but for them a God who created everything is a bridge too far. It’s a gold medal mental gymnastics performance at work.

[@ZeekerPhinder]

Stephen Meyer's assertion that "the Heavens talked back" did NOT originate with Stephen Meyer. 3000 years ago, it was written in Psalms 19:1 "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows his handiwork."

[@jvt_redbaronspeaks4831]

Terrific discussion. More Stephen Meyer videos please.

[@modestamertz3779]

When it comes to scientific thinking about God, Stephen Meyers suggests that because knowledge cannot exist without the presence of an intelligent agent, some form of design can point to certain aspects of creation - such as complexity or order - pointing to the intelligence behind them.

[@zetaepsilondelta545]

There is a short and sweet answer to the question "Does science point to God?"... If one removes the fallacy which causes the first stumbling block and know that although it is spelled with a G the word is actually pronounced as Jod, then you can begin with understanding that the word is related to Jot and Dot (and the Hindi word Jyoti)... something tiny like an atom.

[@solideogloria5553]

the theory of everyting, i love that name. remind me of the steven hawking one, that one moved me to tears without invoking God. this one certainly will blow our mind if the lord is willing. may the lord bless you with all you do for his glory. amen

[@brandonstorey8242]

Science can give proof of God's presence, and faith can provide a framework for interpreting the universe's mysteries.

[@sammy_trix]

Very relevant! There's much more that ID can address in this exact time and date where biology is needing a new theory that could update or even change the old theory of Darwinian evolution.

[@feedsravens4655]

Only relevant for those that are DESPERATE to be special, desperate to be chosen because they were indoctrinated that if they are NOT the absolute center of attention of a postulated infinitely powerful omniscient being, they are meaningless. Of course such people do not notice that there is a whole "industry" (called religion) that lives in abundance from spreading this story, from telling ONLY through THEM you can get to the goal where all is great forever. And people are conditioned to swallow EVERYthing as soon as the God card is played - and pay. It is hilarious how evidence to whatever is the (currently) best explanation, but one picks the evidence which can be bent somehow to "support" the God you are to believe in. "Strangely", all over the world, that is ALWAYS the God of the religion you believe in. NEVER is the result of this evidence "oops, wrong God. Vishnu fits better. Vishnu from now on." No wonder, because you ONLY stay in your bubble, consume ONLY what is fed to you by those who live from your donations. Of course they tell you that that is all there is to be known, and you swallow it hook, line, sinker, fishing rod, and the fisherman wit his chair. Never would you look outside of your God box and see whether there is not more, more modern knowledge, instead of th conglomerate of strawmen of quotemines, outdated information and malicious misinterpretation that the professional apologists provide for you as excuse so that you can feel good. I know, you will whine why I am so mean to interfere into your bubble of constant mutual affirmation. Because I do NOT go the easy way to only go where I KNOW there is no resistance. I cannot grow with that. I can only harden my OWN position when I reformulated it constantly, when I challenge it with ADVERSE opinions. Good, fact-based adverse opinions. Interestingly, rarely ever one comes even rudimentary back with sound arguments. As if all the people had were the slogans they had been spoonfed, that make them SOOOO sure that when they believe them, they MUST be RIGHT. So you want to have Darwinian Evolution replaced? Darwin is long since outdated, he had e.g. zero clue about genetics. It is Creationists that want to make you believe Evolution is still dependent on the old man. But yes, for your Bible you need a new Evolution, a super-duper-hyper-ultra-evolution, so that in 4000 years since the flood from the few animals on the ark thousands of different species could have formed that spread all over the globe, usually leaving no trace of their way over thousands of kms, over several continents. No genetic decay from just one pair per kind, surely because God intervened in the gene duplication. Noah and his kids (+3 wives), no inbreeding in the next generation when there were only cousins to marry. And from this family - the ONLY family worth surviving, only these pleased God - that spread all over the world, as eskimos in the polar circle and as aboriginees in Australia, not a single trace of their piety in the one true God remained. Makes total sense - for a christian who is trained to think ONLY in the patterns he is told to and not even perceive there might be another way. Sad.

[@therick363]

What can ID do that the _scientific_ theory of evolution can’t?

[@scottandrebeccalaird8577]

WONDERFUL

[@mwest1207]

Scientific materialism has been around since the Apostle Paul: Romans 1:18-20

[@torrinolte8280]

Symbiotic relationships in nature alone prove creation.

[@michaelgonzalez9058]

A cell has a chemistry of combining with other cells to cooperate with one another

[@JoylieC]

Excellent conversation!

[@Nafsejhaad]

please guide, how to help understand Athiest that atoms has no role of itself creating universe.

[@mohamedgharbi759]

' We will show them our signs in the horizons and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth' Holy Quran 41-53

[@abdulazizdramani6930]

The Quran is sent down to people who think. Those gentle men and scientists out there are deep thinkers and am not surprised the direction they have taken. Certainly there is God and No intelligent person will deny this reality . There is no “Randomness “ out there in the space especially when you watch the movement of those heavy objects . May Allah be praised ❤

[@RodMartinJr]

After reading *_Kuhn,_* I was struck with the need for *_multiple paradigms_* -- the LACK of attachment to any one paradigm -- and a more fluid freedom to explore possibilities beyond the constraints of any one paradigm. Like Daniel Coyle's, *_The Talent Code,_* accelerated learning with fearless humility can overcome many of the hurdles which *_fearful attachment_* to existing paradigms has thrust upon us. Imagine not having to wait for a sufficient number of funerals to make strong progress. We could've had *_Plate Tectonics_* DURING the life of Alfred Wegener! Heck, we could've had the Industrial Revolution during the time of Plato! *_Humility, properly aimed, is a powerful force._*

[@alexaoberbrunner3307]

This was super enlightening as usual!

[@cosimocub]

in England, Netherlands today i would say the default position is to believe in a creator but not the man made religions

[@glenc5185]

0:00 Zerro 4:20 Interview actually starts 4:50 Q: Reaction to the book?

[@pontecanis]

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Christopher Hitchens

[@humanistatheist6]

Science discussion very very real

[@clintonsmith9931]

Get over the hesitating And trust in Him!

[@555atU]

Would like to know Stephen's take on Carbon-14.

[@robert_sovitsky]

Steven why were Watson and Crick Atheists?

[@robert_sovitsky]

I am asking this question not because I am an Atheist but just to clarify why they were?

[@michaelgonzalez9058]

Is where I made all parallels to work together

[@09reason]

Meyer mentions meeting Sir Francis Hoyle one of the greatest scientists ever. Hoyle computed the odds that the Universe, Earth and life came to be by unguided materials. It turned out to be a staggering 1:10 followed by ten thousand zeroes.

[@therick363]

Well anytime someone saying they did the maths for that kind of situation, I always ask what parameters, variables, formulas were used.

[@mittelwelle_531_khz]

1:06:30 _"... the beautiful physical biological world we live ..."_ So far for the joke of the day if I think of the three main branches of (only) the Abrahamic religions (not counting the numerous factions into which some of them split over the centuries), all if which currently fight fierce, bloody wars, though obviously all praying to more or less the same but still "their" - and from that perspective "true" - God for final victory and dominance over the others.

[@Bryan-fs8wz]

He said it; god of the gaps. Not only do some people assume a god is the cause of something scientists can't explain yet like the Greeks assumed Zeus was the cause of lightning before they could explain that, but then they make the reach to say that THEIR god is the right one, along with all the rules for our lives that come with it. And saying that the complexity of life and the universe demands a creator but that creator requires none is special pleading. Creationists will say that it was always there as if that makes sense, it only makes sense to them because they've repeated it so much, it's just as bad as panspermia.

[@michaelgonzalez9058]

We are in an area of a logical finetuning

[@robmarshall956]

Intellectualism will never get Tom holland or Jordan Peterson over the line because there is no cognitive roadmap to salvation!!