Hoovie Says He's Selling His Ford F150 Lightning Due To Terrible Winter Range... But...

[@ouch1011]

Hoovie selling the Lightning is the best thing he can do. All he’s been doing as “part owner” of it is making click-bait videos to fan the flames. He’s intentionally misusing it in order to “prove” the ignorant beliefs of EV haters and enrage EV owners, both of which lead to views and “engagement.” He and a couple other goons filmed an entire series of “Car Trek” doing the same thing, where he bought an old Model S with a bad battery, did a garbage “fix” to get it back on the road, then spent the entire episode complaining about it because it still had a bad battery. Using the Lightning properly might/would show that EV trucks are very useful and would work well for many ICE truck owners, and that doesn’t fit into the narrative that he wants since a significant portion of his audience is anti-EV. Facts be damned if they don’t lead to more views! He, like many other KZbinrs, is making content aimed at those at the bottom of the barrel, which KZbin seems to be quite happy to reward.

[@toyotaprius79]

He's going to plateau and drop in views eventually like everything on KZbin. But Hoovie is a trust fund kid, shouldn't worry about him other than greed

[@davemoore5222]

Hoovies channel is an ‘entertainment’ channel, not really a ‘motoring’ channel. And when the entertainment stops people will stop watching. However there will be more people arriving to replace those who have left. Add to that the number of people who forget to ‘unsubscribe’ I think that his numbers will continue to rise, though probably at a lower rate. Is his the type of channel which KZbin would secretly unsubscribe people from, as I have been on more than one occasion? I never subscribed and stopped KZbin offering the channel to me after the Lightning/towing FUD. Looking at the number and types of cars in his ‘garage’, he really doesn’t need my ‘views’ and ‘likes’. I’m still subscribed to TE, though - always entertaining.

[@garydmercer]

@@toyotaprius79 How do you know this? Not a very nice thing to say.

[@keenanjeff]

When used properly even the pro has more than enough range for most (95%+) people to daily. If you are road tripping stopping for 20 minutes every 100 miles to DC fast charge and stretch your legs is also not a big deal and a good idea even in a gas car.

[@toyotaprius79]

@@davemoore5222 Yes to all that. But the impact of disseminating bs knowledge is the end result.

[@jbbevan]

Nikki makes good points (as usual). I've driven 3 EV's over the past 7 years. Loss of range in the winter is a physics thing and not confined to any particular brand. I live in Utah...decidedly four season in climate...it is supposed to be -16 degrees F. next week. Before I retired I worked in Texas and had the longest (in miles) commute of my 51 year career...about 45 miles each way. BUT had I had my Mach-E back in those days...even in Winter...I would have made the round trip easily by charging every night. I rarely drive over 65 mph because I think that is the best trade-off for energy consumption...I drive in the outside lane and have after driving 100K miles in EV's completely avoided the wrath of fellow drivers who always have plenty of room (at my left) to drive as fast as they want. Finally, I think the frosting on the cake for the EV is "pre-conditioning". To be able to start my car from my iPhone with the garage door down (due to no fumes being produced) and get into a warm car 15 or 20 minutes later is the BEST winter driving experience I have ever had. Not going back to the ICE age any time soon.

[@juergenschoepf2885]

Yeah, heated seats and steering wheel plus nice and cozy warm interior all with the garage door closed and no neighbor complaining about engine noise is one of the biggest benefits in winter.

[@denniss1211]

I live in Montana. I also drive around 65 due to gas mileage (36mpg) on my 2021 Subaru Forester. You don't pass many others at that speed where the limit is 80mph. Yes... I do burn fuel by remote starting via my Apple and have a nice warm seat.

[@ZipZoomZip]

While all brands lose some range in cold weather, some brands lose a lot more than others. Tesla vehicles, especially the newer ones with heat pumps, consistently are the most efficient in cold weather.

[@jbbevan]

@@ZipZoomZip Yes, my screen reports that 17 to 20% of the power goes to heating...so heat pumps would obviate that somewhat...but they also don't put out much heat, i.e. heating is a slower process. My screen also reports that about 5% of the degradation is "due to outside air temperature." So I totally agree but the rest of the story is that whichever way you go there is a compromise. Personally, my need for range in the Winter is greatly diminished, so the fact that my range goes down with the need is no big deal for my circumstances.

[@BufordT]

There you go using things like facts and logic to prove a point. Thank you!

[@toyotaprius79]

She was one of the original debunkers 🔥🔥

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@toyotaprius79 Debunkers of what? Because I'm pretty sure that for debunking in general, the first ones happened before she was born.

[@Re5ist_ance]

As they say .. never let "facts" get in the way of a good story 🤣😂

[@10lawngnomes37]

In today's episode of FUD Busting: Nikki gives the nicest possible breakdown of a man-child trying to complain about the expensive machine not working the way he thought it would when he hasn't read the maintenance manual and is trying to post-hoc justify getting something more suited for his ego instead

[@jmckey]

I'm honestly really disappointed in him. I was subscribed to Hoovie prior to the last troll anti-ev vid where he towed the most non-aerodynamic vehicle possible because I found his style charming and light. A good break from some of my more educational and tech content I sub too. But after this channel pointed how bad he clearly made the Lightning look on purpose to where he couldn't have been that stupid just on accident, I was done. Un-subbed. Too bad, b/c I did enjoy most of his stuff. But I won't support someone who trolls and misinforms against a technology that will literally make the earth a more viable space for my kids to breathe in decades from now. Fuck him.

[@fonkenful]

Bingo

[@xiaoka]

The worst part is he has read the manual. And the does the opposite.

[@patmclean1951]

He does this for views! He self proclaims it’s dumbest automotive channel on KZbin. This done by design. There is always people looking to hate ford amd the electric vehicle. Again on purpose.

[@ruststar]

He is a moron, funny and entertaining but a moron nonetheless

[@MartijnterHaar]

In Norway, the world's biggest EV market, of course is known for its tropical climate. It's just like how EVs seem to catch fire all the time... in the USA and nowhere else. I do have to say the advice to keep your EV plugged in during cold weather creates a problem here in Amsterdam, where most EVs are mostly charged on public street chargers. Keeping your vehicle plugged in longer than strictly necessary to top up the battery makes you a 'laadpaalklever' (literally: charging pole sticker) and is considered very bad manners.

[@SykeusOne]

As a fellow Norwegian, loads of us can't plug in at work or at home. Plenty nice if you have. But that have not been the option the last 3 places i been

[@darkwingscooter9637]

People generally don't have a good concept for how much milder Europe is than the US. Sante Fe has colder winters than Oslo. The mean January minimum for Minneapolis is about as cold as Oslo's record cold. Not comparable, I'm afraid.

[@lesbendo6363]

You hit the nail on the head! Most people do not realize how much they get screwed by gas or diesel vehicle efficiencies. The gas stations are just around the corner no problem! Good video! 🇨🇦

[@Scypher0th]

but most ppl need a vehicle that can start and drive ever single day of the year and not have to worry about freezing there fingers off in -35c in winter because there vehicle wont turn the heater on for them....

[@AudiTTQuattro2003]

I watch Hoovie's channel because it is entertaining and informative about cars I would never consider owning myself. I watch your channel because it is unbiased and fact based content, while also entertaining.

[@toyotaprius79]

I tried watching Hoovie's channel for a while a few years ago. His content is rather general, to put it politely. Frankly, he was a big dish of boring, affluent and unfunny, which detracted from the cars' info of his videos. I would say that's what Jay Leno's garage is for, but he doesn't do any car dirty for attention..

[@davidmccarthy6061]

I actively ignore his channel!

[@danharold3087]

The large oil and auto corporations have subliminal messages in Hoovies videos! How else can one account for public onion.

[@JohnnyZenith]

More fool you. There are fantastic car channels out there, including this one. It just shows you can be totally substandard and people will still watch you.

[@slavko321]

Not everybody is as discerning as you.

[@Hans-gb4mv]

Haters gonna hate. It's clear he's a petrolhead not interested in EVs or work trucks for the common work man.

[@Species-lj8wh]

A few years ago I bought my wife a 2014 Ford Focus Electric. Yes, its a BEV. It has 23kw battery and being 8 years old its only lost about 10 miles of range. It lives outside in Idaho. But after a few adjustments in my wife's habits, she loves it. That being said, Yes if you use the cabin heater range goes down to about 30 miles from 65. If you drive more than 65 MPH it really sucks power. But You cannot beat that it was only 10k. And every morning its fully charged.

[@fafner1]

Some years ago, I did an experiment with the Volt I then owned. On a cold day (near freezing, cold for the Pacific NW) I bundled up and drove it in all electric mode without turning on any heat. I found my range was substantially the same as in warmer weather. As Nikki points out the battery will self-heat after the first few miles, so the main energy loss from driving in warm weather is the use of the heater. I was initially skeptical when I learned Tesla's used heat pumps but have come around to thinking it is something all EV's should have. Until then I compromise in my Bolt by wearing a coat and using the steering wheel heater and the bun warmers.

[@toyotaprius79]

If only Ford bothered to produce more than the bare minimum for compliance evs

[@heathwirt8919]

@@toyotaprius79 If only you had a clue.

[@paulgracey4697]

After sampling Hoovies Garage some years ago I dismissed him as a biased commentator not worth my time when reviewing EVs. You have confirmed it here. That said I do think such general automotive reviewers who buy the vehicles they cover so as to impute that no promotional fees were received for the effort, (including the vaunted Consumer Reports) have to finance new purchases partly with the sales of the older subjects of their reviews. That he makes it seem the logical thing is just part of his brand.

[@OntoBunny]

Kudos for supporting local businesses. And I hope future models of the Floof-150 use a heat pump.

[@toyotaprius79]

And a price cut

[@OntoBunny]

@@toyotaprius79 💯%

[@stevey_z]

Omg thank you for bringing up block heaters here in n northern new england most trucks need to be plugged in overnight in winter i use this fact to fight anti ev arguments

[@thetj8243]

I really liked the "tangent camera" when I first saw it on a Joe Scott video, but you and Kate bring this artstyle to a whole other level 😀👍 keep up the good work!

[@transportevolved]

Thank you! Joe is awesome and we’re happy to call him a friend - Nikki.

[@RyanWilliams222]

OMG, Transport Evolved and Joe Scott are friends? That makes me so happy! 😄

[@toyotaprius79]

@@RyanWilliams222 👀👀

[@RobStevens64]

Hoovie does literally everything wrong in these videos. I mean, there isn't much more he can do to gimp the truck and make it perform poorly. Which makes you ask if he's doing it intentionally _for the content_. He calls it the dumbest car channel on KZbin, so it makes you wonder why anyone takes him seriously in the first place. But him being "dumb" is clearly just an act. That said, Hoovie doesn't like electric cars, full-stop. He's complained about every electric car he's ever driven. For a guy who buys broken cars, you'd think he'd appreciate something a bit more plug-and-play, but he doesn't ... he likes the sound and the feel of gas, so he's pre-disposed to not like electric, and he's more willing to put up with quirks of gas cars than he is electric.

[@r1chardbwrn]

It’s been -4C over the last few days, our Renault Zoe 40 kWh has been around 100 miles of range. Short journeys on fast dual carriageways and preheating from the battery are the reasons. Plug in and use the comfort timers on the car for preheating make a huge difference to range.

[@danparish1344]

I’ve found that out too. When my 2019 Model 3 (pre efficient heat pump) drove without being pre heated, it got about half of the range it normally does when the weather was -5 Fahrenheit.

[@Scypher0th]

hahahah -4c....so summer weather then? ill trade u for the -34c right now and 4.5feet of snow...lets see how well your ev does then...oh and no garage or shop to park it in....

[@jackcoats4146]

Good job Nikki. Yeah, that guy is just going for click bait.

[@USUG0]

the guy has just realized from the previous towing video, that it is much more profitable appealing to foxnews-like viewers, by bashing EVs.

[@toyotaprius79]

Dopey **anks?

[@RonRattie]

Clickbait videos drive engagement, the secret to KZbin success for some without otherwise good content.

[@tanyavs1]

Hoovie's video and responses were coming up on my homepage and because I wasn't fully aware (this is my first winter with an EV), when I saw the range cut in half, not gonna lie, I was worried. However, it turns out the range is not a good way to gauge how the car is doing. I had a friend come visit and I ended up with range anxiety the whole time because of Hoovie-like videos. We spent precious visiting minutes sitting a charger that I would have never done had I been alone. We had loads of battery power to go around town and I KNEW that because I had spent enough time with the car to make a more educated guess on range than what the dash was telling me. That weekend with my friend was enough to show me everything I need to know about my EVs winter preferences. If I can figured it out in a weekend, I believe others can too!

[@cadude145]

I saw the original video on his towing experience and it did not take me long to realize the problem was due to a loose nut behind the steering wheel. My father, God rest his soul, used to have a saying he said "son it's better for people to think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." Hoovie has now, removed all doubt. Perfect example of an Id-10-t error.

[@benbrown8258]

It frustrates me that videos like his are the first ones that pop up on my friend's (and niece's husband's) youtube searching instead of yours. (Picture my head exploding in frustration!) Gosh, my ancient i-miev gets better range in the winter even without pre-conditioning. I Do rely more on Japanese culture techniques ie Katatsu -like techniques, heating of my bottom half using the seat heater covered with a light lap blanket, that increases winter driving comfort. Simply asking Are there ways to get the best mileage possible, would make a big difference. Better yet tuning in to this channel!

[@joeclutchless1944]

It’s not called the dumbest KZbin channel for nothing. He always delivers.

[@desertdan100]

In fairness you both make good points and some things that are a stretch. In the Midwest the wind is always blowing and you are always heading into the wind at some point. That makes it a good place for renewable wind energy. It also is a wide open area with a lot of space or miles between towns and cities with substandard charging infrastructure. You have talked about this in your own videos , so I know you understand that. People in the area are not used to how you need to work with EV operations. So he was checking all of the boxes for worst case scenario. Nowin your defense and being in agreement with a lot of what you are saying. People need to learn more about their vehicles and how to use them. I grew up on a farm and operated and repaired Diesel trucks and equipment. If you own and operate a Diesel powered vehicle and try to treat it like a gas vehicle you are going to have issues. In the Winter in the Midwest you need to plug them in during cold weather to heat up the engine block and you need to run anti gel or cold weather additive and a winter blend fuel mix. Same thing with your Electric truck. If it sits outside in the Winter, you need to keep it plugged in and condition the batteries before you leave and turn on the heating system before you leave while it's plugged in. We call that common sense. If it is cold out and you drive 70 mes an hour into the wind you are going to use up energy at a higher rate. If you live in the Rural Midwest spring the extra money for the long range version of the Vehicle. I want to say Duh! , but that's not very nice so I will say educate yourself before buying. I am a truck guy and have been trying to get this across to people that at this point in time an Electric truck isn't for everyone but things are improving as time goes on. I want an Electric truck myself but the F 150 Lightning can't fill my use case but there are trucks on the way that might be able to. I am actually considering buying a Canoo version pickup to use most of the time and switch to my heavy duty pickup just when I really need it. I don't want 2 pickups but at this point I don't have a lot of options. I think the Canoo truck is a better fit than the Lightning for many use cases and a truck like an Atlis XT is better to do the things that my heavy duty truck does now that the Lightning can't. There is no perfect tool but there is the right tool for the right job or use. Cheers and keep up with your videos. You are helping to educate a lot of people.

[@skydivekrazy76]

Thanks for this. Dispelling the FUD is necessary. Sad to be the case, but people need to learn. And you teach them with class... I'd be kicked off KZbin for cursing at the poor little tykes! 😏

[@banovsky]

LOVING THIS CONTENT!!!!!! My dream EV content is Transport Evolved x Bjorn Nyland watching other EV content and simply reacting & debunking as you go… You like that shit?

[@toyotaprius79]

A man can dream. If you've watched TE long enough you would've seen the videos they did with Robert Llewellyn years ago

[@toddfraser3353]

A question for other EV owners. After getting my EV, random folks just go to me and first ask me if I like my EV, then go on telling me why they are not going to get one. (Often filled with the general FUD facts). I just want to say to them "just don't get one then!" or if I am feeling more sarcastic "sure I just spent a lot of money on a new car that is drastically different than my old car, without considering if it would work for me or not. Because I am just an idiot" granted I am usually too polite about it. But it is really annoying.

[@toyotaprius79]

Imagine having a Prius back in the 2000s

[@databeestje]

Indeed, when people ask about range I usually just say 140k km (~87k mi). Which is ofcourse total bait, but some of them get the hint. The other question was if you can charge it in the rain, seriously? Yes.

[@BixbyConsequence]

My favorite are the ones who are compelled to explain to me: "Electricity has to come from somewhere". Thanks for the tip.

[@rp9674]

I was basically called a liar, "they don't tell you the whole story"

[@toddfraser3353]

@@BixbyConsequence They seem to think the only reason to get an EV is for the environmental benefits. Not because it is cheaper to operate, much more quiet, faster acceleration and often with a bunch of cool features that are not practical on ICE cars, because you kill the 9v battery, or kill yourself from the gas fumes.

[@iMcWatch]

would love to see the range of a diesel F150 on 2.5 gallons of diesel which equates to about 95kWh

[@davemoore5222]

Especially the way Hoovie drives 🤭🤭🤭

[@toyotaprius79]

That's about 3 gallons in energy equivalent. So 55-70 miles range? 😂🤞

[@toyotaprius79]

@@davemoore5222 30 miles 10 mpg

[@keyoke69]

Who cares. No one drives past a gas station when they only have 2.5 gallons in the tank.

[@davemoore5222]

@@keyoke69 Precisely, and only a clown with an anti-EV agenda drives past a charging station with only 30 miles remaining. Although I thought this comment was comparing range per 95kWh between diesel and electric in an F150. Diesel giving 30 ish miles with electric giving 160 ish miles.

[@dethpuck]

Awesome as always Nikki! This is my first winter with my EV. So far its not been that bad.

[@davidwillims2004]

i suspect that there are lots of things we do (without even noticing that we do them) for an ICE vehicle. just because not doing them ends up with problems later with them. such as having to have a engine heater, or not checking that there is coolant for the engine. and many others that just have become just how you drive the vehicle

[@davemoore5222]

As a long time electronics engineer some of the best ‘repairs’ in the 80’s & 90’s were those of audio equipment where the owner couldn’t be bothered to read the instruction book. 🤔🤭

[@Muppetkeeper]

I haven’t had time to watch the video, but for info, this week in the UK the weather is -2°C, which is cold for here. I noticed that my diesel van dropped 5 miles per gallon fuel efficiency.

[@davidhuber6251]

Great video. The side benefit of preconditioning your car while it's plugged in is that everything inside is warm. I often turn on the heat/preconditioning half an hour before I go anywhere if its cold. I love getting into a nice toasty car when its freezing out. The regenerative braking works better too, even if you don't really need it because it's slippery out and you don't want to brake hard anyway. I did the math and it cost me 35 cents to precondition my car for half an hour on a really cold day. (cold for Portland anyway) On the days I forget to precondition it still drives just fine. I just use the brake pedal a wee bit more.

[@davidwillims2004]

and ICE (and i would guess EVs too) are less efficient the faster you go....

[@steveurbach3093]

The manufacturers need to really work on a more flexible UI that is condition aware. Preheating (by timer) the Cabin uses the normal setting which can be pricey at some utility rates. It need 1 or 2 set points (Never let below x, warmup to Y). Also, overnite charging needs a optional Start/STOP time (expensive rate kicks in) window, rather than just have at 100% by x time. Your Fords guess-o-meter is a step in the right direction. (I stopped using mine and now use % after getting scared with 16 Mi (and 30 from a charger) only to see 50% SOC

[@rp9674]

A smart charger might help. My EV only has a charge scheduler and I have a dumb charger.

[@polo3433]

As leaving the charger plugged in is probably the biggest reason of the range drop it is a short coming for EVs. Several garages can’t fit a full size truck. So leaving it outside without being plugged in would be more common than you think.

[@heathwirt8919]

But certainly not in Hoovie's case he has a huge garage. And a power cord can be plugged into the EV while it's outside.

[@lizburgess4398]

Thanks! We've been trying to find out how to precondition our Bolt EUV on the forums. We heard everything from "Just use the remote start," to "You can't." I wish Chevy had walk-through videos or something.

[@transportevolved]

If you have remote telematics you can! And you can do it with the remote too.

[@lizburgess4398]

@@transportevolved Thanks!

[@gregculverwell]

I can leave my IC vehicle outside and 'unplugged' wherever I like for as long as I like and guess what? The range is unchanged. Also I don't have to fiddle with screens in order to know how far I can go on a 'charge. I agree with Hoovie.

[@cjabe756]

Thanks for this video, I love how you and your crew believe in facts and proper comparisons. You guys are awesome.😊😊😊😊😊

[@bobvittengl8116]

My trip in my 98 kWh Lightning yesterday was 408 miles , started with 7 degree F and 39 miles of range , used the NY evolve chargers at Stewart’s ( three 150 kw plus one 350 Kw at each site , and also used the EV go chargers at the Auburn Mall . The quick splash and go works great. Today went skiing to Killington and back 150 mile trip , temp in 20s with wind. These vehicles are awesome. Once my home charger is in , I will wake up to a full tank. The DC network is a work in progress, but getting better everyday. Just think of charging your car like you charge your cell phone , all is good. Nicky , Keep up the good work in getting to the truth, way too much FUD out there

[@AWildBard]

awesome!

[@anthonyzhang4918]

Pick up truck vs SUV talk did a great, realistic midwestern normal winter drive test. Driving 200 - 300 miles on a weekend is very common, especially during the holidays (hell my regular commute is 130 miles). It’s definitely doable in the lightning, but also definitely takes longer due to running out of range, having only one charging station on your 200 mile trip, and having to wait an hour there in order to charge up. Now in an R1T, with the bigger battery pack, you’d probably have a much better experience. You can make it to your destination without charging and charge at your destination for 24 hours or so.

[@joevwgti.]

Thanks for presenting a reasonable response, with an extremely enjoyable amount of info balanced with sarcasm.

[@usa-ev]

Hoovie had Ford's list telling him exactly what he had to do to set the truck up for failure to make his video.

[@elinicfurniture6860]

The electric energy generation from gas or coal is also only around 30% efficient, plus heat losses in power lines, so the argument that combustion engine uses part of that unavoidable energy loss for heating in winter is quite valid :-)

[@ab-tf5fl]

My experience with a Bolt is that there is no one answer for what percent of your range you lose in wintertime. Between one day and the next, I can get very different efficiency numbers, depending on whether it's 20 degrees outside or 40, whether I'm doing short city trips or longer highway trips, whether there's snow or ice on the roads, and what temperature I have the heater set to. Losing 50% of range is something I have observed in a worst-case scenario, however, that only happens on short city trips, where range doesn't really matter much to begin with. When you're on the highway, the energy consumption of the heater becomes small relative to simply moving the car, so the winter range penalty is much less.

[@tobychristian4741]

Hoovey is perfectly entitled to not be happy with the lightening. Just because he's not using all the little tips and tricks to maximize its range doesn't make him wrong. I am also getting fed up with the crappy range on my e2008 in the Uk cold weather.

[@Maxxmentum]

Thanks, helpful

[@bobvittengl8116]

Also , Killington has 54 ac level 2 chargers available at 6 locations on the mountain , drive to Killington , ski all day , and the cost of charging is FREE :)

[@desertdan100]

I wanted to add this. Last month on a 16 degree Fahrenheit day with 30 mile an hour winds I drove a 2022 Nissan Leaf. I was looking to get my wife a new car and test drove the one I could find local on a car lot. Of course there are no new Leafs to be had in my area and the earliest delivery time is 6 to 8 months out. They wanted higher than new car price for a used std Nissan Leaf. I did not buy it after driving it. What I will say is that it was sitting outside with 60% charge on it cold. It took about 5 minutes to start warming the interior up and it only lost about 1 % charge to go 5 miles of in town traffic. I turned on the heated steering wheel and seats right away. The nicest thing about them that I did not know I was missing until I had it was the heated steering wheel. That is a wonderful feature that makes a huge difference in the winter. I had to turn the chestnut roaster off because it was too hot! Anyway , I say it is worth it to lose a little range to be comfortable and I refuse to freeze or sweat in any vehicle just to save a few miles. I was forced to deal with a VW beetle in my youth and decided that never again would I seal with that kind of crap. They never got warm and you had to scrape frost off of the inside of the wind shield to drive down the road. They also cooked the heck out of you in the summer. But they were great on gas. Who cares.

[@javiskii]

I'll try to bring some electric Ford KZbin video positivity here... Has anyone watched the latest Aging Wheels video?? He's doing something brilliant

[@toyotaprius79]

AW: The Good Hoovie

[@transportevolved]

No no. AW is so much more ;) We love him. in fact, I’m a patron of his - Nikki

[@offeraviad]

Good job explaining facts vs fiction!

[@claytonjames4779]

This is some real investigative journalism here!

[@hartoz]

Can you do a rundown on heatpumps please? I know they are better in cold climates, but are they better in hot climates as well? FYI I live in Far North Queensland, and drive an EV fitted with a heatpump.

[@lengould9262]

Heat pumps are almost always a good idea where heating is required. They work by using an electric motor driven compressor to "amplify" the heat energy contained in your natural surroundings, often capturing 5 kw of heat for each kw of electricity the motor uses. In electric vehicles, always an advantage because even when cabin heating may not be required, often the battery pack wants heating to perform optimally, and without a heat pump usually the auto will use resistance heating from the battery charge as heat, using like 5x more battery electricity to get a job done as a heat pump would.

[@steveurbach3093]

Heat pumps are great in milder climates and not so in really cold areas. As the name implies, it pumps heat from Outside to Inside. (an A/C or you home freezer is really just pumping heat from inside to Outside. Extra valves and a few other things changed to allow reversal of roles is needed. OTOH a resistor is just tungsten wire on a ceramic support (cheaper) (My 'S' Leaf has this, the next model up ($$) has a heat pump. I use the heated steering wheel and drivers seat instead of heating the cabin. And a coat or sweater if it is really cold. )

[@kaysocles]

Thank you for being level headed about the lightning, it is NOT the fault of the EV car if the users are not as mart as its technology!

[@teamsrx]

My wife has a Mach-E 4wd and when warm has a 230 mile range, in the winter in the NE that range goes to 180 miles due to having to heat the cabin and condition the battery. She drives 100 miles per day and a mixture of city and highway driving. She preconditions before she leaves each morning. When she gets home she is lucky to have 30-40 miles left. In 0 degree days she has to turn off the heat sometimes on the way home just to have enough power. For her it works as a great commuter car but whenever we go on a trip we take my truck do to the lack of any DC fast charging and the fact the cold sucks so much power out of these batteries. Ford should of used heat produced by the motor and batteries to help heat the cabin but it does not, it vents it to the outside. So yes, when the outside temp is below 20, 1/2 the range is not uncommon and this is for a small CUV. I cant imagine how bad the lightning is with a standard battery pack.

[@johnanderson9735]

Our Bolt EUV serves its intended purpose, being a work commuter, that can charge at home and at work as necessary, very well. I would have loved an F-150 lightning but I don’t think I will ever be able to find one anywhere close to the original MSRP $41K. Until range and charging speed improve somewhat we won’t be going all EV anytime soon. My hat is off to everyone in the severe winter areas making EV’s work.

[@thomaswilding8818]

you’re adding a different spin on the same problem. He discussed garaging and plugging in to extend range. Given the f150 is physically too big to fit in a standard garage, I wouldn’t expect all owners to garage and plug in every night. And didn’t Tesla decide not to manufacture any vehicles with less than 250 mile range? His claim a 150 mile range truck was impractical therefore seems reasonable

[@CoolTies]

I respect everything you’ve shared but, for the average driver, isn’t it possible all these “conditions” and “exceptions” just go to prove Hoovies’ point?

[@lyledal]

I do not know what a "Hoovie" is, and I'm okay with that.

[@NeilBlanchard]

As you mentioned, warm up times in the winter are *much* longer than in warmer weather, and the engine control computer has to enrichen the fuel/air mixture a *lot* for a much longer time. In summer, it takes about a mile to warm up enough to get to normal mixture - while in the winter, it can take about 6 miles. And sitting idling to warm it up is MUCH worse, because you are wasting ALL of that gasoline. So, a lot of short hops with cool-down between them - is *terrible* for winter fuel efficiency, in an ICE vehicle. EVs have NO driving warm up losses. All season tires have crap traction - and so they will waste more energy *slipping* vs good winter tires. All tires have much higher rolling resistance when driving on anything other than dry pavement - as you mentioned. With snow, it is like constantly driving uphill.

[@heathwirt8919]

100% correct!

[@jam206AR]

EVs just are not ready for most Americans. We need to tow and live in cold climates. Just doesn’t make sense yet.

[@transportevolved]

John, let's be fair. _Most_ Americans live in an urban or suburban environment and don't actually _need_ a car at all!

[@jam206AR]

@@transportevolved Yeah I guess ur right. I’m just thinking about where I live in the Midwest. It gets cold and pickups do a lot of work. My bad.

[@transportevolved]

@@jam206AR Thank you for the thoughtful interaction :) In the Midwest a lot of pickups are used - but as we've been discussing recently, a lot of it is because people have become used to it (and have a perceived rather than actual need) This is something I'm learning as a rural Oregon pickup owner! - Nikki.

[@jam206AR]

@@transportevolved again very true. Probably 60% of our workforce is outside with oilfield or construction type services. Maybe not all of them need a truck but most do. Darn near ever person around here has a boat. I guess that’s not a real need but more a choice.

[@buzzofftoxicblog791]

Thank you Nikki 😊 💓

[@macbuff81]

Not everyone has the luxury of leaving a cable plugged in all night. Like folks who only have roadside parking

[@mafno9524]

Good stuff! Hoovie was a bit misguided. He was obviously moving on to the next "shiny object" (Hummer) before he even bothered finishing the second video. You guys did great and concise breakdowns of both videos without getting too salty. Keep up the great work.

[@grantlouw3182]

That video by Hoovie was just plain annoying bovine excretion, and if I was Ford I’d be seriously annoyed that he lambasted the vehicle despite ignoring their simple advice. The best part of the video was the pee stream of water leaking from the Hummer roof. Makes me wonder what financial incentives are at play.

[@howardspellman]

I did not pull a “HOOVIE”. Got better mileage under worse conditions. I Have no real complaints about the Lightning. I knew it would be an electron hog. Yesterday coming up the hill to Mammoth Lakes, which is the ski resort here in California had probably the worst combination of weather, elevation, and speed. I drove 40 miles from Bishop to mammoth lakes and it’s an elevation gain from 4100 feet to a little over 8100 feet in approximately 40 miles. I was driving with a warmed up cabin, kept an average speed of about 67 miles an hour and the temperature varied between 26 and 40°. I used 1.3 miles/ kW. In retrospect my mileage since the truck was new after almost 5000 miles is on spec. My average for that time which includes a lot of highway driving and not too much cold weather so far is 2.3 miles/ kW. Biggest problem is the electric charger infrastructure which still sucks. Just make sure you don’t let SOC get low and charge more often. I’m used to a Tesla for the last five years and I never had to think about it. With CCS charging, you have to overthink it because on average between 25% and 50% of the Electrify America chargers will actually work at any given time and I’ve even had times where none worked. Just enjoy the truck and stop reading this 😊

[@trevorbromley-palmer]

Another great video, loved the “Sidenotes” and the brief interjection from Kate (she makes me smile, love her sense of humour). Just the brief clip you showed of Hoovie was enough for me to never want to watch one of his videos.

[@pxsteel1]

You just complained about him driving the speed limit. I do not want to need to babysit my automobiles. Change the oil every few months and 5 minutes at the gas station every other week is more than enough. A vehicle should just work when you need it.

[@transportevolved]

No. We commented that the speed was high for efficiency. No vehicle is efficient at 75.

[@williamj.dovejr.8613]

I will wait while Ford works the rest of the kinks and the range is extended....I want a lightning but good things come when you wait.

[@UNIVLOCATEFUN]

You come across much better when you are outside and talking and not in some studio. Keep it up.

[@ouch1011]

Also, I think we need to look at interior heating on ICE vehicles differently. If EVs are going to be accused of using additional energy to run the heater (because they have the option to turn the heater off), I think we should say that ICE vehicles are _constantly_ using energy to run the heater, whether you want it or not. The heat for the heater comes from the fact that about 70-80% of the energy consumed by burning fossil fuels is wasted through heat. EVs have the option of not using energy to create massive amounts of heat, ICE vehicles don’t. They’re always creating huge amounts of heat, the only choice is whether some of that heat gets piped into the cabin for interior heating or if it all gets rejected to the outside of the vehicle. It’s kind of like blasting the heater in your house all year but leaving all the doors and windows open when it gets to hot (or even turning on the AC). If EVs are going to get blasted for being able to selectively use energy to heat the cabin, let’s call out ICE vehicles for constantly using huge amounts of energy to heat literally everything, even when it isn’t wanted.

[@Thanos88888]

I don't really consider -4C as "cold". Lets see some range tests at -40C as that's what I deal with for 4 months of the year. I am really looking at getting an EV truck in the next few years (realistically 10 years based on availability) and I want to know that when I drop $100,000 on a truck, it better not let me down. Will these heat pumps in other EVs work at -40C? I'm waiting for a Dodge Ram 1500 EV. I also hope that it doesn't have air suspension since that doesn't work in the cold either.

[@rolandtb3]

Winter range is an issue. Cold temperatures lower performance, traffic, head wind, snow drifts, lots of snow to plow through, road surface, terrain elevations, etc. It would be nice to have comparative data. Speed, temperature, head wind, amount of snow, 2 wd/4 wd, tire type: all season, winter, tire chains/blankets. Like you implied, how did you prep the truck for winter driving and how the truck's computer documents recent driving experiences and compensates for future projections.

[@HowardStory]

Thank You. I was wondering about heating the car during DCFC. There have been times in winter when I have cracked that heat up. My thought was that I am paying for time here not for energy used and the DCFC can provide more energy then the 2017 Bolt will use to charge the car. I will say it did seem to charge the car faster. But that has really on been 2 times so not really a good test.

[@paulavenoso899]

Thanks!

[@MrKlawUK]

I hate ‘miles left’ as a measure on EVs. But then I ignored them on my ICE cars too - they sway up and down dramatically based on previous driving history. Just look at the fuel gauge and in the case of EV - percentage. And build up a memory of ‘X weather and Y drive type = Z miles per 10%’ and you’ll be golden.

[@DogsBAwesome]

Thanks

[@wewk584]

Great video. I still am not a fan of solutions that are not factor renter/multifamily people (ie keeping plugged in when parked in winter).. but most of the information was very helpful. Enjoy the channel

[@theundergroundlairofthesqu9261]

Also, keep in note: Hoovie sells most everything, and sooner than later. His show is basically based on a nonstop churn of interesting (or stupid... mostly stupid) car purchases and repairs.

[@DogsBAwesome]

Ford did not make it easy by not having a proper heat pump, which is just a bit of extra plumbing added to the AC. Average joe's will buy one of these, how are they supposed to know to precondition the truck of a morning.

[@tonespeaks]

@Transport Evolved Excellent Video.... you hit every point right on, but..........The EV v ICE debate is really about effort. People drive ICE vehicles put little effort into how efficiently their vehicles run. Many people are not willing to give up the convenience of being ignorant about how external conditions affect the range, or that they have to be more mindful of how they drive. What is really troubling is the lack of effort some people are willing to make, to improve our environment and save money. Transport Evolved has made and excellent point about people being too fixated on range, especially when the average person, drives about 35 miles per day. There is a mindset in the Driving community that will need to change and it is a good things there are videos like this to help people understand the truth.

[@dog-thebackwardgod]

A more apt comparison for plugging in the battery is plugging in the engine block warmer on a gas truck. Imo.

[@georgemendez777]

Hoosie did mention that the co owner does not have a level two chargerger and therefore could not use it as he originally intended to and thats one of the reasons the co owner is upset with it. I did feel the same way about the bolt I purchased I have to drive 110 miles a day and a level 1 charger was not cutting it for me and was really close to selling it but I got the level 2 installed and it has made a worl of difference for me and have since been extremely happy with both performance and fuel savings compared to my escalade. Level two charger is a game changer and do believe that no one should say how terrible an ev is if they don't have a level two in their home. And a not to add my nearest fast charger is 25 miles away and not one near work so it was really frustrating at first.

[@briankennedy3154]

Well done. All the points you made, spot on. Intelligent and respectful.

[@gabrielback5615]

I find it hilarious what you people call cold when talking about your EVs. I live near Edmonton Alberta Canada. Probably best known down south where its always warm for the West Edmonton Mall. Here we've already this fall, not winter yet, been blessed with many days of below your 0 F, with a few nights into your -30 F range. we have a forecast showing a stretch of nights upcoming with lows nearing -40 C which is the same as your -40 F. These are temps that can be called cold. These are the temps where being in a reliable, warm, vehicle is a requirement not an option. These are temps that Ive never even been able to find tests on EVs. Having your vehicle lose half its range can be not just an inconvenience, but actually life threatening. Telling us all how good the F150 is doing when its warm doesn't amount to evidence about its cold weather abilities, Hoovie's experience is far closer to believable for most users and doesn't encourage me to trust an EV in the cold. That doesn't even address the fact that over 30% of North Americans live in rentals and have no warm garage or available outlets to plug into overnight.

[@MrCvnbvn]

The EV really is not an acceptable solution for me because of what I do. If I would be able to haul ½ ton of equipment in the truck and a 16 foot trailer full of roofing. The range needs to be at 300 miles with payload. I will point out that as a carpenter I have operated lithium ion batteries for cordless tools. At one point during a colder than usual winter we had about half of the men on the jobsite had lithium batteries and the other half had ni-cad batteries. The temperature was dropping and wind speed was rising and the building was unheated and had holes big enough to throw a cat through. We started working and within 2 hours all of the lithium powered batteries were useless because of the cold they would not drive a scew and would not charge. Although I had a ni-cad battery system at the time i still had issues with changing and operating the drill. I was able to operate my drill all day despite the lack of batteries. The problem was that the lithium batteries can't operate in extreme cold climate after a certain temperature is reached. This is one point that was not made in the video. Hoovie did mention wind and the word Kansas. Anyone who knows anything about Kansas knows it is flat and windy that is probably the reason he is having issues with his batteries and you aren't. First I would point out that the partner was having issues with with getting his rounds completed in a timely manner. I know that you probably have a better climate for lithium batteries compared to Hoovie if the movie was recorded in around the same time as Hoovie. Also the fact that you did not recognize the fact that temperature is a bigger role the colder the temperature is telling me you are not considering anything that might be bad for your viewpoint. I am not inclined to consider your opinion more than grandstanding. Please do better next time.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Thanks for an interesting and fair assessment of winter range on this vehicle...not that we are very likely to see them here in France.

[@Longsnowsm]

Good video, much more balanced than your previous response to the towing mess with Hoovie. As you know the GOM is going to produce a number based on who was driving it last and how they were driving it, and other factors. Someone else jumping in and taking off driving 75mph and that is NOT how it was being driven previously is obviously going to watch that GOM estimate collapse. There is a big education problem here getting people to understand how things work. Note in one of the shots of his dash that it stated he was getting 1.3 mi/kwh. To me that tells the tale. As was noted KZbin is about clicks and content. And the audience for Hoovies is not really an EV crowd, but I am sure he knew this would make for some good content that would get the clicks and views needed to monetize the investment. Looks like it did that. Winter range suffers with the EV's and it is just felt a lot more than with the gas car since they have so much energy on board to waste. My Bolt efficiency and range has taken a significant hit in efficiency and range and I am an efficiency freak and I work to get the maximum mi/kwh I can. It hasn't stopped me from road tripping in the car and will be off on another adventure for the holiday. This winter hit isn't a made up thing, it is factual and there of course are many other publications reporting the disparity in winter range. Not only is the efficiency and range hit, but the charging speeds are impacted and it takes a lot more time to get my charge now on my stops on a road trip than it did during the summer. People will need to factor that in to the trips. Summer time even in a Bolt there really isn't much waiting around by the time you get what you need done at the stop. But I have to admit the time it takes during the winter has been very noticeable and a bit irritating. I actually feel like I am waiting around for the car. That would be my real complaint. Smarter preconditioning, and management could offset some of this. Looking forward to your observations with your own testing. I think you have pointed this out before that the truck is not the best choice for daily driver if efficiency matters. Use the truck for doing "truck things". That is what i do. I am just waiting until more work oriented EV trucks are available than the current Lightning and would like to see faster charging speeds with that truck. Ford is serious about trucks and the T3 is coming. The Cybertruck is not what I am looking for in a truck so I won't be considering anything of that sort. Love your support for local dairy and local businesses. Thank you!

[@remco6816]

Short trips drain energy because of cold batteries, but if you drive long trips this issue isn't as bad. I do not pre heat my ev because i use a normal plug. Its just how it is. Not sure how the f150 works but i dont hope its constantly warming the battery in cold weather. Seems like a waste if you are not going to drive.

[@IthacaDon]

First time viewer and I have an order in for a Lightning. Looking forward to seeing a video about winter driving and range. Great work. Thanks.

[@1um0]

My Mach E is also not liking when I drive it almost straight to motorway from home when driving to work. Currently it is showing 210-220km of range when I charge it to 90% at work (AWD SR tech2). The thing is of course that I don't charge or keep it plugged in at home as I or our housing company does not have sturdy enough main breakers for me to use 3 phase 400v charger and I don't want to lose kilowatts to 1phase charging if not totally necessary. lately it has been -8 to -11 Celsius in the morning when I leave to work with cold car. I use steering wheel heating, seat heater and my heater is at comfortable +20 Celsius. Usually I lose something like extra 10km from estimated range while doing it like this, but then again my consumption during this not so cold weather has been only 5kWh more per 100km than during summer. Lets not forget that I use friction tyres, my tyre pressure is about 0.1 bar less than what is recommended (for added comfort) and I tend to go to corners sometimes sideways, just because the car is nice to handle that way. All this said, in summer I got estimated range of 350km mostly, but depending on how I drove it never got to that point that I would have driven even close to 300km one day (or between charges) except a few longer road trips. My summer consumption for different trips has been everything from 16kWh/100km to 30kWh/100km (average still 24kWh/100km), but if I count all variables it is not bad as during summer I have driven speeds that I will not mention here so that I don't attract too much police interest and the car weights around 2100kg. If I compare it to my previous diesel car, it used 50-60kWh/100km average and the weight was 500kg less than Mach E, it also had less than half of the power of this car. So efficiency is lot better and could be even better with slightly higher tyre pressure and gentler driving. Sad fact is that half of the people buying electric cars don't know how to actually drive charge and use them. This has been obvious for example when seeing BMW iX3 driver plugging it into 200kW charger while there are empty 50kW ones (as it only charges 50kW max) and people that don't understand basic physics. Also it is so common that people blame the cars not charging fast if they don't know how to precondition their car or that the charger is not doing the 150kW on the charger from 0% to 100% (again lack of understanding physics). There are also people that don't really get that if they charge the car at public chargers only and drive 20km per day they will definitely not get more than half of the promised range if they warm the car each time as I do.

[@gildardo]

Love the 1440p video, great color and B rolls.

[@Thunderbuck]

I'm going to look past Hoovie's bad faith and weird use-case here and point out a frustration I've had as a Mustang Mach-E owner in a VERY cold climate (Whitehorse, Yukon, where we are expecting -30°C this weekend): Ford makes it WAY harder to recondition the battery than I wish they did. There are only two ways to precondition the BATTERY (as opposed to the cabin). You either schedule your morning departure and have the car plugged in or you set the navigation to a charging station. This is not cool. Or maybe too cool. I wish we had the ability to manually invoke battery preconditioning. Even when unplugged, though that should carry strong warnings.

[@ivantuma7969]

Since we don't have batteries with infinite energy density, as EV owners - we have to do a little more planning to make the most of current technology. I recently did an ideal range test on my 2013 Volt PHEV... matching the same route I took a couple of years ago (*except for one thing). Previously, my battery-only test loop gave me 52 miles of range (not bad for a car rated for ~38 EV-only range). This time around, I ran the same loop, approximately the same temperature and traffic conditions BUT had charged the car overnight - not starting my drive until late afternoon. This time I only managed 44 miles under ideal conditions - my guess being that the car sat fully charged - unplugged for 10 hours before heading out (and this was summer). In all fairness, without pre-conditioning and being parked outside on cold, snowy winter days with the heater running on MAX, the EV-only range can drop to as low as 23 miles. With 80K miles on the ODO, I still have ~98% battery charge capacity (2% degradation after using battery-only mode 85% of the time - in my driving the PHEV overall, I've averaged 191mpg). I still think companies and governments could have tried harder with PHEV technology (using small 2-cylinders, micro-turbines, or rotary engines as range extenders) instead of making the leap to full electrification(sorry). I do most of my driving within 10KwH's. Most people don't need an 80KwW battery for their daily commute - realistically, if you do need to road-trip every now-and-then, that little bit of gas (or alcohol) burning won't turn the world upside-down (cost-wise, it's not much more expensive than road-side charging at $0.43/KwH).

[@Paul-od9fr]

Might want to revisit your physics 101 assertion at 9:55. Maintaining something at a temperature above ambient temperature consumes more energy than letting that same something cool toward ambient then heat it to the target temperature.

[@transportevolved]

You’re right… when you’re talking long times. But if you want the cabin warm from the battery….

[@bryanferguson3157]

Great job noting in super cold climates, people have been having to plug in their engine block heaters for decades. Definitely not a new requirement for people that live in super cold areas.

[@daviddill5227]

What if you don't have a garage? What if you don't have an charger within close proximity of your parked EV on a cold morning? Two likely scenarios people have and will continue to experience over time. What Hoovie put the truck through are two scenarios I would be doing if I owned that truck. No charger to keep it plugged in and fully charged overnight. Nor do I have a garage for my car. Even if I were to condition the battery and many of the other tactics (except for not running the heater) I would still likely be struggling with keeping a lotbof the batteries energy within the battery for trips. I live in Connecticut where warm weather in Winter is not a viable option. I know you feel Hoovie did virtually nothing to preserve the battery power but if its well below 32 degrees outside is pretty screwed keeping the range at a respectable level without experiencing some sort of range anxiety that has some validity behind it.

[@Paradigmfusion]

I just learned about winter range myself, thought it was odd that I have a brand new battery and yet its been showing about 40-50 miles less est. range than it usually does.. (around 190 fully charged estimated)

[@mostlynobody517]

Hoovie lives in Kansas. Spent 4 years in Kansas while in the military. Temps around freezing are balmy in the winter, I have never in my life been as cold as I got in Kansas. The winters are brutal but his issues could have been avoided.

[@renehunt4252]

A heat pump can take heat from the air also

[@Dw-hw2ks]

Well....im's an f150 lightning owner 4 months. Average 2.5 with free charging at dealer and free fast charging 50kw. Plus, I'm a lyft driver who makes 2k month driving. My tips....slow down, drive slow, and put in the garage at night. I live in Texas, so weather that not cold. Oh, do your research before spending 90k. I'm winning free charging and making money with my truck.

[@pascalbruyere7108]

How much does it cost to leave a car plugged in winter? It’s heating up the environment?