What is the best designed 30 caliber rifle cartridge? Part 2:

[@mannybarroga1878]

Settled on the 308 win and 300norma in the end

[@tomlarue654]

Well, we totally agree so far. I’m enjoying this series for sure.

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks Tom!

[@fedup3582]

I still have my 300 WSM, my 300 H&H mag, my 30-06, my 308, my 30-40 krag, and my 30-30. Each has served me very well, but truth be told, if I had to settle for just the 30-06, it would do everything I needed just fine. Thankfully I don't have to do that, yet.....

[@edwardabrams4972]

The 30-06 was good enough for Teddy Roosevelt it’s good enough for me! Also the 300 wsm holds the 1,000 yard record if I remember right in a short action is pretty awesome too!

[@hopefulballistics]

Well said!

[@fedup3582]

People seldom mention the magazine capacity when discussing the 30-06. Lets say you were chasing a brown bear. Would you feel better with a 30-06 with a bit less recoil, thus easier to shoot accurately, and 5 rounds in the magazine to back you up, or with a 300 RCM or even a 300 WSM, with more recoil and only 3 rounds in the magazine to back you up? 🤔🤔🤔

[@bkb5668]

The .300 rcm out preforms the saum and the wsm in a short barrel you need a 24” or 26” barrel to get the same bullet speed in the saum and wsm. I own a few .30 cal. from .308 win. to .300 rum and my favorite all around is the .300 rcm. The .300 rcm also was offered in longer barrels (24”)and when using the same powders it out preforms the saum and is identical to the .300 wsm using a few grains less powder. I think the wsm is more available for ammo and rifles. The superperformance powder and 150gr. Sst bullets from Hornady is what I used to test the rifles. Thanks for the videos

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks for watching

[@ronlowney4700]

😃 You Made 3 Very Important Points/Observations: 1.) Asking What Was The "Intended Purpose" Of The Cartridge Design? 2.) The Importance Of Neck Length (A Topic For Future Discussion). 3.) That The Case Design And The Caliber (Bullet Diameter) Can Help Determine Whether The Case Design Is A Good Design (The "Right Balance")? I Also Agree With Your Picks, Because of Your "Reasoning" (Logic), Too! 😁👍

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks Ron!

[@ronlowney4700]

Thank You! 🙂

[@fedup3582]

If they were going to create the 300 savage, it would be the 308. The 300 savage was created for the savage 99. When the 308 came out, they modified the 99 so that it could take the 308.

[@hopefulballistics]

Ok

[@showtimeridershouston6054]

I agree with all of your picks. Great content keep it coming

[@hopefulballistics]

Thank you for watching!

[@larrygabbard4896]

During the peak of the ammo shortage, I traveled from Arizona to Missouri to Alabama stopping at Bass Pro,Cabelas and Gun Stores on the way. I saw lots of 17 cal and 300 RCM . I don’t think people know much about that cartridge.

[@hopefulballistics]

Interesting

[@utahlakewaterfowlassociati996]

i own all you speak of and im very happy with the .300 saum, ive killed six elk with it and they never went more than thirty feet and dropped, the gun i have in ruger m77 synthetic stock in nickle stainless, its light to carry, very tolerable to weather, and abuse, its now my go to gun, 7mm mag was my next choice which use to hunt with.

[@hopefulballistics]

That’s cool, thanks for the comment.

[@Blong243]

Good to learn new things and this is a neat way to compare cartridges. Keep them coming.

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks Ben, I sure will

[@glenoh88]

Got to look at everything, including mag capacity and actual powder burns in short barrels etc. Times have changed, short barrels are a big deal now, I won’t hunt backcountry or in the mountains with a rifle over 20” in barrel length. Folding stock + short barrels are huge because of suppressors, designs have to be super efficient with powder burn. 30-06 is way old tech, RCM and even 7 SAUM were way ahead of it’s time.

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks

[@BornAgain2019]

The 300 RCM has the same outside case diameter as the belt on the belted magnums and uses the same rim diameter and hence the same bolt face as the belted magnums instead of the larger dimension of the WSM. With the dimensions of the RCM you get an extra round in the magazine vs the WSM. The advantage of a short mag is to give magnum performance in a compact package. If you are going to equipt it with a 24 or 26 bbl to equal traditional magnums you might as well just go with standard and magnum length cartridges that utilize long heavy bullets better than short action cases. My 300 RCM gives me hot 06 24"bbl performance in a short compact package which is not a bad place to be with a hunting rig. I have both and also the 300 WM with a 26" bbl. Love them all.

[@hopefulballistics]

I appreciate the comment

[@fedup3582]

300 savage vs 30-30. A number of attempts were made to create an "improved" cartridge to replace the 30-30. Give it more performance. The 30-30 AI, the 307 winchester, and the 308 marlin express. All three basically gave performance similar to the 300 savage. The 30-30 remains, the 30-30 AI, 307 win and 308 marlin express fell by the wayside. 🤔

[@johnt34aus]

You hit the nail right on the head in the 30-06 v 300RCM comparison. Referencing the Hornady podcast the 300RCM would not see the light of day except for the lawyer's demanding royalties for each 300 WSM produced by Ruger! I have a 300 RCM and it is the 30-06 Ackley in a short action. The 20" barrel length is becoming more relevant now with the suppressor trend! It does not do the velocities claimed except when using Superformance powder but then again the Hornady'Superformance factory loads shoot terribke in my rifle. The other thing in the RCM is the freebore! They didn't develop the PRC or Creedmoor chamber philosophy and optimisation yet.Was all about speed at the time. As a result freebore is n the Weatherby range. Don't know if it's a Ruger thing but a 168TTSX can't be loaded in the neck and touch the lands. The other thing that should be discussed in a hunting rifle context is feeding in a BDL type mag. The RCM being slimmer feeds the best IMHO the WSM the worst

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@davewinter2688]

When the 300 Savage was introduced it did match the 150 grain 30-06 military loading of that time at 2700 fps. It worked great in the Savage model 1920 which was a slightly modified ‘98 Mauser action and THE FIRST short bolt action and first light weight could be called mountain rifle. OTOH not really fair to put it against 30-30. Big difference in operating pressure and strength of the rifles it was designed for. 300 only detuned today because of lawyers at SAAMI. Hand loaded to its real potential with modern powders in Savage 99 or any good bolt action it gets very close or even equal to 308 Winchester. Hornady SuperFormance is a great round in a 99 IF you can find it. Happy hunting boys and girls!

[@kylemartin832]

You're on point like always happy Friday 👍🙏✌

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks, Happy Friday!

[@rockylavigna5977]

I confess I am in the group that knows absolutely nothing about the 300 RCM . I like learning new things, thanks

[@hopefulballistics]

Your welcome!! Thanks for watching!

[@fedup3582]

"The 300 savage did not acheive the goal of producing 30-06 performance." Well in those days, a 30-06 was pushing a 150 gr at @2700 fps, and the 300 savage basically accomplished that, at that time.

[@hopefulballistics]

“Basically” is relative. It’s never matches the 30-06.

[@fedup3582]

@@hopefulballistics it produced the 2700 fps with a 150 gr which was the bar at that time. Since then, factory ammo has been backed off a bit for the 300 and the 30-06 has been improved with better powders and loads, so it attained it's goal at the time, but the performance bar of the 06 has risen since.

[@fedup3582]

Actually, the 308 win would come closest to comparing to the 30-30 and 30-06. It can be chambered in light and handy lever actions and carbines to take on the role of the 30-30, and also closely compare to the performance of the 30-06, yet it kicks more than the 30-30, and it still lags a bit behind in performance compared to the 30-06, and while it has become extremely popular in its 60+ years, it still hasn't replaced either in their two different roles. 🤔🤔🤔

[@hopefulballistics]

I agree, the 308 has carved its own niche.

[@ReloadingWeatherby]

Come on.... we all knew you would pick the 300 WSM over the 300 SAUM. 30-06 vs 300 WSM will be a tough one for you. Your next video is bound to offend some. I don't see the 300 Win mag going far.

[@hopefulballistics]

I think some will be offended in every part from here on out

[@fedup3582]

The 30-30 and the 30-06 were each designed for different purposes. They have created literally millions of each which the people happily bought up and used, and now, well over 100 years past when each of them were produced, both are still extremely popular, both are still being produced in new rifles, and both are still performing their roles very handily, despite all the newer, "improved" 300 savages, 300 short magnums, and 300 super magnums. For the average hunter, which is well the majority, would these newer, "improved" cartridges really be all that much better for what the 30-30 does, and what the 30-06 does? Seems like history and popularity might say otherwise. 🤔🤔🤔

[@hopefulballistics]

Two great cartridges. Especially 30-06

[@anonymousf454]

This was great. Did you do this with the 338's, and 358's?

[@hopefulballistics]

@@anonymousf454 no I haven’t

[@anonymousf454]

@@hopefulballistics It'd be a lot cooler if you did....😂😂😂

[@ratdaddy7774]

The 30/284 was supposed to be be the 3006 in a shorter package but failed to deliver the velocity of the 3006 with heavier bullets seeing it seems to be similar I wonder what the RCM will do with 180 gr and higher? 300 savage was always better than the 3030 when you consider Winchester when the released the 307 they tried for the best of both worlds and actually approached the 308 more than the 300 sav however neither the 300 sav or the 307 won popularity against the far more inferior 3030😢

[@hopefulballistics]

Good comment, I appreciate it

[@jmgates09]

300 WSM!!!!!!! SHORT ACTION 4 LIFE

[@hopefulballistics]

It’s a good one, for sure!

[@tacticalmattfoley]

It's so interesting that new gun owners are being steered toward cartridges with bullets seated very shallow like the 6.5 family. Imagine if modern 30 cals were designed this way. For example, imagine 300 win mag redesigned with this philosophy. What would the extra case capacity give shooters with the superior design of modern 30 cal ogive bullets?

[@kylemartin832]

We call it the 300PRC 😉

[@hopefulballistics]

300 PRC and in a way the Weatherby cartridges have a lot of freebore

[@hopefulballistics]

@Jess Hadlock I was thinking that was the case. Thanks, Jess

[@fedup3582]

Seating the bullet shallow, like in the creedmoor works well with one bullet weight, but if you use a versatile cartridge and like to load many weights and styles, the shallow seating with the heavy bullets will not be so good when you go to seating other lighter, shorter bullets in the case. It will create large distances for the bullet to jump to reach the rifling. If you like to use a broad range of bullets, you would be better off to use an older cartridge that generally has the bullets seated deeper in the case. For instance, I bet the 300 WSM would handle a 125 gr or 130 gr better than a 300 prc, because in the WSM, you would be better able to seat the bullets closer to the lands for better accuracy and versatility. Same with a 7mm rem mag and 7mm PRC, if you wanted to shoot 110 and 120 gr bullets in your 7mm.

[@fedup3582]

Ain't this fun?? 😂😂😂

[@BIGFOOT-BC]

The 300 RCM is the best, it feeds the best, enough power for any North American game, can easily handle a 200 grain bullet giving it good sectional density. Not over powered and reasonable recoil, just a very efficient cartridge. The power is slightly more that the 30-06 and is a definite improvement in design and efficiency. Many magnums are overpowered and there is no pleasure in shooting or practicing with them not to mention the increasing ammo expense.

[@hopefulballistics]

@@BIGFOOT-BC thanks for your perspective

[@MangoMike316]

😎👍👍👍😎

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks Mike!

[@fedup3582]

Create the 300 savage today, it would be the 308.

[@hopefulballistics]

Give it a longer neck and higher pressure rating it’s the 30 TC.

[@fedup3582]

Actually, if you consider, useage of the average person, history, numbers, popularity, and todays position of each cartridge, it could indicate the end result being the 30-30 vs the 30-06, with the 30-06 coming out on top. For the average hunter, the majority, that outcome shows some relevance. Let the howling begin!!!! 😂😂😂

[@hopefulballistics]

30-30 is popular and common. This is about best designed. It’s not the best designed, in my opinion.

[@fedup3582]

@@hopefulballistics design is extremely subjective. The design of the 30-30 by default, has to have good merit considering its, success, it longevity, and its continued popularity but is limited by its useage design. I did not say it was the best, but when you look at it's performance history and continued performance compared to all other cartridges, it's design apparently has good merit or it wouldn't have it's success, even after its 125 + years of competition. I do not believe it is the best, I don't think there is an absolute best otherwise there would only be one. Qualifications for "best" are going to be so subjective and varied that we will never be able to determine a "best". I think the closest we could come would be the best designed cartridge that fullfills the best average of all aspects for the average or majority of all people. If something is poorly designed, it will not produce, last, or gain popularity. If you want the fastest, that is one aspect, but it isn't the best overall, if you want the lightest recoil, same story, best efficiency, same story, etc. The one that has the best average of fullfilling ALL aspects for the vast majority of people, could be the one that overall, is the best designed. The 30-30 has accomplished this for its niche but its nitche does not cover ALL hunting. I have my opinion of which would be best based on its longevity, its availability, its user friendliness, its proven performance, worldwide, it's versatility, the number of them produced, the satisfaction of it's users, its barrel life, its cost and any other aspect you could come up with. When you average them all up, I know which cartridge would come to the surface. Nobody will agree though because everyone will be biased by their own personal wants. One will be biased towards the fastest, another towards least recoil, another towards cost, another towards availability, etc. So we will never agree, but if you judged by overall aspects, actual numbers and facts, taking the best overall average, I believe one would come to the top. And everyone would howl in descent.

[@J.JSteyn]

If you hunt in Africa, 308win is the best, American game are soft so 308win could kill anything out there. Meat damage is my main concern on anything bigger in the Americas. 30 30 is jour best caliber ever developed if you hunt at 60 to 100 yards, beyond that you are shooting at a target not hunting 😂

[@hopefulballistics]

Thanks

[@MikyBianchi]

why don't explaine the cartidge advantage in a standard barrel length instead a lot of bla,bla of rubbish??

[@hopefulballistics]

Why don’t you not watch my videos anymore and make us both happy?

[@MikyBianchi]

@@hopefulballistics You will be sure !! i don't like rubbish at all 😀