Hops In Kettle vs. Hops In Stainless Spider | exBEERiment

Hops add bitterness, flavor, and aroma to beer, and as brewers we want to get the most out of those precious hops. For years, Martin has boiled his hops in a stainless sleeve, but would he be better off tossing them directly into the kettle? To find out, he brews two pale lagers side-by-side where everything is identical except how he adds those kettle hops, then he serves the beers to tasters including special guest, @TheApartmentBrewer, to see if they can tell a difference between these hopped-up brews.
RECIPE: share.brewfather.app/kEe5ejLQ...
INGREDIENTS
Epiphany Craft Malt: www.epiphanymalt.com
Atlantic Brew Supply: www.atlanticbrewsupply.com
Yakima Valley Hops: yakimavalleyhops.com/
Imperial Yeast: imperialyeast.com/
EQUIPMENT USED
Clawhammer Supply 240v eBIAB System: www.clawhammersupply.com/prod...
Spike Brewing FLEX+: spikebrewing.com/products/fle...
SUPPORT BRÜLOSOPHY
Patreon: / brulosophy
Affiliate links: brulosophy.com/support
CONTACT: [e-mail]

[@giulianopizzo2860]

This exbeeriment needs to be completed with an IPA or something with significantly more hops. Would love to see the results!

[@GentleGiantFan]

I agree. Seems a bit inconclusive to me. Can you do the same exbeeriment with a highly hopped beer like an ipa?

[@tomasbeha1645]

Came here to throw that exact comment, this was pointless. Doing a beer with THAT low IBU while doing a 60 min. addition makes it even more so... Should've done a NEIPA.

[@keithpoolehomecoffeeroasti489]

Nah an IPA has too big a flavor with hops coming from all directions including dry hops, fruity yeast etc, I don't think anyone could tell apart when hop volume is on 10 out of 10.

[@jeroprueba]

i agree

[@jonthebeau4653]

Agreed there's not quite 1oz of hops in the boil for this recipe not enough for the experiment.

[@TheApartmentBrewer]

Thanks for including me in this exBEERiment! I had a great time tasting those beers you sent over and it was fun to work together on this! Despite the results, I think I'll continue to skip the hop spider. I still think there's a boost in hop character in beers where more hops are used. Cheers!

[@jonathanwilliams1974]

Would like to see this in a west coast or a NEIPA. A spider here is very challenging as it could fill up with hops quickly, but it dies keep a cleaner product in the fermenter. Would like to see if there is a discernable difference.

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

There’s no fooling you even with a measly 22 grams of hops! Thanks so much for doing this!

[@importanttingwei7747]

A❤0😢🎉🎉 5:21 5:21 5:21

[@importanttingwei7747]

​@@jonathanwilliams1974🎉🎉o😂on 89

[@pv4669]

This confirms the Brülosophy experiment from 4 years ago where an IPA (Slipper Check IPA) was brewed. Participants were unable to reliably distinguish the beer made with the kettle hops added to a hop spider from one where the hops are added directly to the boiling wort. I’ll keep using my hop spider. Easier clean up, yeast washing, etc. Thanks for the video Martin.

[@TheBruSho]

After my first few brews on the Clawhammer I decided to toss that bazooka screen and now I kind of do both in spider and not. Usually only into spider if its a large hop charge. Have no idea if it made a difference but I like to think it does haha. Great vid!

[@Eagle1846ytown]

I never use a hop spider anymore. I recently brewed an IPA with 5.5 oz of hops in a 3 gallon batch, had no issues, and it won first place in a local competition. Plus, hop spiders are a pain to clean.

[@bradleybarth9939]

Great video! I enjoy the branching out to other collaborators

[@seanjbuttigieg]

I've been thinking about buying a Hop sleeve forever, thanks for this experiment

[@ElementaryBrewingCo]

I’ve been adding hops without the sleeve for a while now as well. I just don’t like cleaning the hop spider, cheers Martin 🍻

[@scottw9412]

I'm sure putting beer in the mail was done for cinematic purposes only.

[@Evols1]

That was fun. Thank you!

[@garrettshuck3246]

Definitely need to do this test with some form of a heavily hopped IPA. Using an ounce or two hotside additions is rare

[@BEERNBBQBYLARRY]

Nice side by side comparison. I gave up on hop socks and spiders years ago. Much easier brew days, and have never noticed any difference except for recipes with large hop bills whereupon I did notice the difference having to add more hops in the spider to make up for it.

[@drmdcaud]

One of the biggest changes/improvements to my more heavily hopped beers was ditching the hop screen in the kettle. My beers were much much more flavorful when I made this change. I don't know how much of a difference it makes with the bittering addition, but it makes a world of difference for flavor, aroma, and whirlpool additions.

[@CallowG]

I only used a hop spider for bittering hops and then added my aroma hops to the wort. Never used a hop screen. I also noted that cold crashing the wort then racking off the hops didn't really do anything to the taste or clarity. Racking during fermentation and the magic ingredient (time) cleared the beers just fine.

[@Les2point0]

Cool experiment! I think doing a lager is a lot more conclusive of a result than a big IPA

[@Mark_Wood]

That's awesome. Not surprised the differences were insignificant. Maybe try again with a more highly hopped recipe?

[@SteveD826]

I’ve chatted a little with The Apartment Brewer about this - the additional equipment for whirlpooling homebrew, while perhaps fun to have, is not at all necessary. Just run sanitizer through your chiller while you manually stir the hot wort for 2-3 minutes with a sanitized stainless steel brewing spoon/paddle, then lid the kettle and let it settle for 10-15 minutes. Drain the sanitized cooling line, sanitize the kettle spout, and transfer slowly enough to chill in a single pass. I’ve done a dozen or so batches this way with the same crystal clear wort you get with the added equipment, and my plate chiller has never clogged, despite using as much as 8 oz of hops in a 5-gallon batch.

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

That’s good to hear that this method works with a plate chiller too.

[@Karjakumpu]

Nice video. I stopped using sleeves on late additions and whirlpool but use it on long boil. For me it's convenient and it reduces mess. But I have brewed IPA and just dumped all the trube and hops in fermenter. Ferment with kveik and packet in a week. No problem at all. Less mess and easy brew day.

[@nsmith1388]

One thing that could change is if you're fermenting in the same vessel you brew in. I brew in Mash and Boil all in one kettles and I can ferment in them. I use hop screens mainly because I think it would dramatically throw off my flavors. But... since I have 2 M&B's, I'll give it a go and see what happens. Thanks for the inspiration!

[@jcbrew]

I look forward to a Brulosophy exbeeriment with actual statistical significance. So far the hit rate feels like 5% or less. All one has to do is read the title and feel safe in concluding that it didn’t matter. I still enjoy the brewing content in general though.

[@dudestewbrews]

Great video Martin. I too had watched Steve's video where he talks about not using the hop spider and wondered how much of an impact it really makes. I'd be curious to see if an IPA or something with more hops makes a difference too. For now I'll stick to using the hop spider for big hop beers but maybe ditch the hop spider for those lightly hopped lagers/pilsners. Cheers!

[@seanrowland1670]

Martin and Steve, thanks for answering this question. In my case I have a plate chiller so free throw hops are a no go.Also, bazooka filter clogs in no time if you throw hops into the kettle. Maybe repeat the experiment and brew a high IBU IPA and see if there is a sensory difference between the two methods.

[@sandlinds]

Nice test and interesting results. Agreed, a hoppier beer may make any differences more obvious. It'd be interesting to apply these same methods to a Holiday Spiced Ale to see if more cinnamon/citrus/clove character comes through to the finished beer. I just made one using a screen, and the "spent" spices were still very aromatic when the boil was complete. PS: Hi Martin's Mom!

[@ianlaker9161]

Nice to see Steve on the show. You two are my favourite homebrew KZbinrs from over the pond, even if one of you came from my part of England! I face the dilemma of whether to use a hop spyder or not everytime I brew. Do I just chuck in the hops (usually pellets) and risk gumming up the false bottom or use the screen and spend ages waiting for it to drain all of that captured wort? Tghesedays I usually opt for the former as I think the utilisation is better and if I'm gentle with the ball valve I usually don't get a stuck run-off.

[@nh1662]

Switching from a hop spider to the hop stopper 2.0 kettle filter has drastically improved my hoppy brews, more refined hop flavor and aroma 🍻

[@Beerjunkieguy]

I've not done a side by side but have repeated recipes doing this both ways and for me, there's no difference I get. However, I do stir the hops in my hop sleeve very often to make sure they are getting their hop love into the wort.

[@djscottdog1]

Use the hop spider on your outflow easy to wash the outside of it.

[@59apachestepside]

I recently made a NEIPA and decided to also ditch my hop screen for my boil addition (something I don’t normally do). My only kettle addition was a single 12 oz dosage of Calypso & Lemondrop (15 gallon batch) that went free into the kettle after bringing the temperature down to 175F. Instead of whirlpool it with a pump, I vigorously mixed the kettle with a spoon and stirred into a vortex and let it be for 20 minutes before transferring it over to my fermentation vessel while passing through a counter flow chiller. When the kettle drained, there was a huge mounded cone of hot matter beautifully collected into the middle of the kettle and it appeared that minimal bulk vegetal debri was carried over. Fast forward to dry hop day, I tasted the beer for the first time and was upset with the results as instead of juicy/aromatic/smooth hazy, I tasted a harsh/bitter/almost listerine like flavor(I think I blame the Calypso hops for that). In an effort to salvage the beer, I proceeded with a 2 lb dry hop charge that definitely added a fantastic punch of aroma as well as variations of flavor too. In the end, the beer ended up with a unpleasant to me bitterness factor that just wasn’t what I intended to achieve. I think the main issue was the amount of time the hops sat on the beer while transferring to the ferm vessel at around 175f extended too much bittering. In my case, I probably won’t free whirlpool hop very large hoppy beers in the future and stick to my kettle screen for those situations.

[@chamiboy1]

great video

[@TheGingerBrewers]

Hi Mr Brulosophy, can you tell me why you didn't use a protofloc tablet to stick together your matter in the whirlpool? Interested to find out your thoughts on them. Cheers.

[@davec4955]

I like the choice of the style of beer (low ibu). I would like to have you use a much lower alpha hop to increase the amount of hops in the kettle. 🍻

[@NWsmallbatchBrewing]

Nice choice on the el dorado

[@yonagwy5826]

I always freeball my hops. Just whirlpool it and let it settle. it just takes a few more minutes. I've never really thought about flavor impact. But then again, you'll get more surface to surface contact.

[@Randel1966]

Grest content. Yes, I wish you did a heavy hopped ipa to see the difference.

[@josephcaliguire9245]

If you're concerned with utilization and flavor, have you considered tossing all the hops in and recirculate the entire batch back into and through the hop screen after your cool down period prior to transfer? It may help capture and remove a lot of that organic matter and may help oxygenation as well.

[@richardmarzec9136]

I use a hop sleeve when using a lot of hops. Otherwise i run the risk of getting a stuck pump. Also, i get more yield because there is less hops and trub.

[@CrazyAboutVinylRecords]

I have reached the point where I really don't care if there are differences in the finished beer. What is more important to me is to have clear wort coming out of my brewing system with zero pump, drain, or chiller clogs. I have not had a good experience with false bottoms and other solutions/techniques that are aimed at managing hop matter. The only guaranteed way to get the result that I require is to use a hop spider.

[@chadlorraine2910]

When you said there would be a special guest appearance at the beginning of the vid, I don’t reckon you were meaning your mum, but I think it would qualify 😃

[@JoeGraves24]

Here it is

[@JimP226]

I just rewatched this and it would have been great to do a test (if possible) to measure the alpha acid or other content to see which had better extraction.

[@shaggaroo]

exactly this... samples should/could have been sent out for analysis

[@ColoradoBrewTalk]

Great video as always! I agree that a pale ale or IPA would probably show the difference better. Might be something I have to tackle. - Mike

[@Marshall_Brulosophy]

We've done it! YT doesn't like links in comments, so I'll leave you with the actual article titles that you can search on our website in case you're curious to look into them: Impact Filtering Kettle Hops With A Stainless Mesh Filter Has On An American IPA Impact Filtering Kettle And Dry Hop Additions With A Muslin Bag Has On A Rye IPA

[@ColoradoBrewTalk]

@@Marshall_Brulosophy Excellent! I'll have to check that out, and I appreciate the link!

[@markm5722]

A IPL or cold ipa would be interesting to see the differences

[@josejavier1104]

Agreed on your semi-final point. It would be interesting to see the results or experiment with a beer that has a significant hop bill. Maybe a SMASH?

[@rogeliomoreno1441]

Hey Martin. Frist of all, great content!! :) Second... where did you buy your whirlpool arm?? Thanks!

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Thanks! Clawhammer Supply sell them.

[@drebourbon7616]

I usually stir my hops around in the spider.

[@alanward5477]

What size mesh would you recommend on the hop spider Simon?

[@countzero1972]

LoL .. Hi Mum! Great video.. subbed. Thanks

[@MATTW3R]

Need more hops.

[@jabien]

An IPA would have been a much better test bed for this. I would shoot for ~50IBU and no dry hops. I'd have to think about whether a hop stand makes sense here. As the experiment stands, I'm not sure much could be taken from the experiment or results.

[@Bobotrucker]

I did my first all grain today and added hops right into the pot.. but when I transferred to my fermenter I noticed hops and other substances in the bottom of the pot? Wasn't sure if I should add "some" of that to the fermenter or not afraid I would lose some flavor leaving it out..I chose to leave it out, I hope that wasn't a mistake.. Any opinions would be helpful

[@peterwells4424]

I skipped most of the brewing bit for the results. Then saw there were virtually no hops in the beers anyway. This needs to be tried with a big hop schedule to test a hop spiders efficiency. If I brew a beer with a small amount of hops I use a spider. If I use a lot I throw them in the kettle...

[@niklastrippler1053]

I'd think you would first chill to drop hops and trub out of suspension, and then whirlpool to collect even more in the center, and get cleaner wort.

[@CelestialHeir]

Yeah like most comments have said, great experiment but would love to see it on a beer with more hops. Just brewed up the pliny the elder kit from more beer and wow are there a lot of hop additions! I didnt have a spider, so i bagged them all in muslin bags. I kept wondering the whole time if this was a mistake or not. Awesome job though!

[@Marshall_Brulosophy]

We've done it! YT doesn't like links in comments, so I'll leave you with the actual article titles that you can search on our website in case you're curious to look into them: Impact Filtering Kettle Hops With A Stainless Mesh Filter Has On An American IPA Impact Filtering Kettle And Dry Hop Additions With A Muslin Bag Has On A Rye IPA

[@BohumirZamecnik]

It might be a fairer comparison with a bigger amount of hop matter, succh as 100g.

[@pdubb9754]

When you said you were making an IPL I was thinking India Pale Lager, not International Pale Lager. You might be on to something that you alluded to at the end, that the results might differ with a hoppier beer. We sometimes see some pretty big late additions in our hoppiest beers, so maybe worth focusing there?

[@mattwilson5383]

Oooooo USPS gonna be mad! lol I always use UPS and call it Hot Sauce when I ship to friends

[@Tomtiburon]

You had to do it with a pale ale recipe, maybe a SNPA clone or so... your IPL has not enough hops 😢 but thx for the video❤

[@gregbush8573]

@2:56 I notice you're boiling on the non-sleeved side at "208f" vs the 212 expected, while at boil that's no concern, I wonder if you're confirming mash rest temps via a separate thermometer and ensuring your rests were at the same temp. Haven't watched to the end yet, but an observation I made in case a difference is seen later, as this could affect body and hop perception.

[@davidhall158]

I found that the more hops I used, the poorer the utilisation when using a hop basket. Too hard to predict. The more hops, the bigger the difference in amount of hops required to compensate. I ditched the basket and went commando. I use a Brewzilla with false bottom strainer. The whirlpool thing isn’t really a thing with my thing.

[@T_Mo271]

Might have been a better experiment with a less powerful AA hop, so you'd have more typical amounts of plant matter to deal with.

[@AndreQuirion]

Random question, do you filter the wort before measuring in the EasyDens? I've been using tiny coffee filter every time I take a reading with mine and it take forever to filter through. Wouldn't mind skipping this step. Thanks

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

I’ve never filtered the wort before using it. No problems so far.

[@jakestewart094]

Is it possible that a combination of some oxygen during canning + hop creep from more time could make this more distinguishable in the canned version that apartment brewer noticed?

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Could be. But my money is on Steve’s expert palette.

[@suburban91]

How many micron is the spider ?

[@viper29ca]

So which was which? I assume that the ones sent to Steve, he correctly picked out the green one, but was the green one with or without the hop basket?

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Green used the hop basket

[@viper29ca]

@@TheBrulosophyShow so using the hop basket imparts (albeit very slightly) more hop character overall

[@omarpadilla4739]

I dont make enough hop forward beers to justify exposing my pipes n chiller to more cruddy hop matter. As is a single rinse with HLT/HERMs water and im g2g for the next batch. Hop spiders just make sense for me.

[@JimP226]

Wasn't there an exbeeriment that showed you don't even need to strain out the hops. Just dump the whole lot right into your fermenter.

[@seriomarkj]

Hi martin's mom!!

[@peshwengi]

I might be British, but I couldn't tell what she said!

[@RJVEK]

It’s like watching a British version of Eminem brewing

[@liquidgold2735]

Redo the experiment with a super hoppy NEIPA!

[@postalbunny]

Would be more valuable if you tested on a beer that actually required a hop spider... utilization of 0.20oz was probably not hampered by the spider

[@thebrewtreebc]

Martin where can I get that shirt!

[@TheBrulosophyShow]

Thank you for noticing! It’s a home made effort

[@colkestrel]

I have often wondered what a beer would taste like with no hops.

[@justthebrttrk]

It wouldn't be beer anymore. It would be malt liquor. You can already buy it at the store.

[@colkestrel]

​@@justthebrttrk It looks like KZbin removed my response maybe because I had a link. I went to the homebrewers website and they actually have a recipe for malt liquor that does have hops so I do not believe you are correct. I might actually try making the recipe from their page. The primary difference between malt liquor and beer is that malt liquor is made with corn as well as malted grain. With that in mind there is a couple of videos I think would be interesting. Make a malt liquor and a normal beer basically the same except you remove the corn and just do more grains and compare. Make duplicate beers but leave hops out of one all together.

[@justthebrttrk]

@@colkestrel plenty of beers have corn in them. Many lagers do

[@dahe8883]

You have to understand the statistical power of the analysis you are using is very inferential, meaning that the sample size directly influences the power of the test. It's highly suspect to use only small numbers of subjects to come to any statisical conclusion. The power of the significance is low, in other words. And for any 3-way test, the probability of detecting a difference, even repeating the test, is relatively high, by chance alone. Are you using Spearman's rank? What are you using?

[@javamonjoe]

I noticed that your mom had no problems with you in a room talking to yourself. Guess she's used to it by now.

[@Zumaray]

Poor choice to do a comparison with such a small hop addition and high AA hop.

[@Audard]

Why are larger for this experiment? The sulfur is going to corrupt the hop flavours.

[@Face_Meat]

Before I see the results, I predict that there will be zero difference between the two beers.

[@na1raz]

Americans... Something that is normal in Europe they call experiment. If you would be a lil bit poorer you would know how it is to toss hops into the kettle, cause u woulnt got any hop spiders, bazookas and all of this equipment. It reminds me : When we were kids, we used to play soccer wearing casual stuff and in every neighbourhood there was some rich kid wearing original soccer team uniforms - not having any skills at all.

[@teebs6089]

poor style choice for this exbeeriment, imo