Hornady Shares All: New .338 ARC - Everything you should know!

[@BattleChemist]

HOLY CRAP!... I haven't seen Jason in a year+ and he has lost a LOT of weight! GOOD JOB, BROTHER!

[@DanielInfrangible]

From Hornady’s website… Subsonic op pressures: 30k psi Max psi: 52k psi

[@NShooky]

Bolt gun with a short barrel chambered in 338 ARC sounds interesting!

[@TrashAnyway]

Uintah precision will be offering 11" and 16" bolt action uppers.

[@Maxx_Rockatansky]

Howa Mini Action!

[@cornfedchris1]

Coming from a subsonic 300blk enjoyer, this cartridge is very interesting. If it’s even slightly cheaper than 8.6 that’s a win in my book since you don’t need an entirely new large frame ar10 to run it. Cheers Hornady

[@essaarif7941]

Prices for ammo are out and it’s already cheaper. 175gr is 1.2$ a round and subsonic is about 1.7$

[@Maxx_Rockatansky]

Best and most informative 338 ARC video to date. Well done.

[@JerryWDaviscom]

I am impressed. A brilliant design that also makes the firearms chambered for it better. I want, 12.5 inch. Dream round.

[@Ratkill9000]

I'm glad that PSA will be offering rifles in .338 ARC right away.

[@timjohnson8390]

PSA is garbage

[@mmorin92]

The next question is, how much is the ammo going to cost? Affordable/available firearms is only half the equation

[@ethan5.56]

AAC is supposed to work with hornady to come out with some loadings

[@RcB_1985]

Aac ammo is announced they will produce it ​@@mmorin92

[@RcB_1985]

​@mmorin92 it won't be cheap with a 300+ gr projectile but but it will be quite and prolly fun to shoot

[@tonyturner487]

Do a segment on the 338 spectre

[@JRShirley]

I wouldn't make an assumption that subs are going to be most of the ammunition bought for this caliber. I'm interested in a short cartridge with a lot of throw weight, with better SD than .357 magnum.

[@higgenbotham]

You really should interview Discreet Ballistics and Bryan Litz who were also involved in testing to get a more complete and accurate story on this development process with 8.6 and the twist.

[@aplong1911]

This was a fascinating and informative conversation, thank you guys for taking the time to do this!👍🏼😊🇺🇸

[@TedintheShed]

Algorithmic commentary

[@Militaryarmschannel]

Thank you, sir.

[@rurouniad]

Algorithmic sarcasm algorithm tag @tedintheshed

[@hopewilliams6705]

So kinda 338 Spectre with Hornady backing it.

[@jamesphillips4599]

It will be a smash hit just like .30 Super Carry. Oh….

[@brendanseanhenning5304]

...and in a more common bolt face diameter...

[@ToastbackWhale]

Yeah turns out the at having industry support and SAAMI specs matters.

[@greenchef6]

@@jamesphillips4599 Federal was the one backing 30 SC.

[@fluffywarhampster]

​@jamesphillips4599 nah it's definitely gonna be big like 224 valkyri...oh

[@TheAirSofterblaster200]

I wish they would have announced this a few months ago. Built a 10” 350l for deer hunting recently for suppressed deer hunting. I would definitely “rebuild” that pistol into a 338 arc

[@JayMac-gh1kx]

Top show as always keep this up n rolling out 😊 top info on the KIT and gear 😊

[@SimplestUsername]

37:00 considering that they're partnered with PSA to build 338 ARC weapons, I'm surprised that he didn't immediately say they're making ammo too.

[@moshedayan9049]

I haven’t been interested in any new cartridge until now. Plus PSA is involved, I will be getting one.

[@bluepunk182]

Love this format of video! Thanks MAC!

[@ADRay1999]

Really interested in their new Backcountry defense ammo their coming out especially their 44 magnum variant Muzzle velocity: 1620 Muzzle energy: 1398 Maybe a bit exaggerated but damn look at those numbers

[@westvirginiaminer3046]

Im interested in a short bolt gun in 338 arc. I got a Ruger 300 blackout Predator and love that little gun suppessed

[@e.l.robbins5614]

338 arc is better for subsonic use. 8.6 blackout is better for supersonic use, but I only want 1, and it will be the 8.6 blackout. 8.6 blackout will get saami approval and in a little more time the subsonic accuracy and consistency will get better. Hornady has the advantage with ammo technology. Hornady should get busy perfecting the 8.6 blackout and get it saami approved, and start selling the damn ammo. It’s about making money. 8.6 and 338 arc are too damn expensive for AR platforms for most people. I got a Q fix.

[@stump3514]

This will kill the 8.6 BLK before it even gets popular. Sorry

[@bozackdakilla7846]

Currently shooting a hard cast lead 312g 8.6BO subsonic. You can literally hear the spin as it goes down range.

[@jameshagerman7681]

This one has caught my eye, this in a light weight little bolt gun like a mossberg MVP or Howa Mini should be phenomenal.

[@davepayne2024]

A 1:5 twist in 300 bo should only be used with subbs. Most of your concerns are based on potential bad decisions.

[@bluepunk182]

"they're fine with their 22 TCM or whatever they're on to..." I feel attacked. 😅

[@soylentgreen7074]

I was getting pissed and kept pausing the video thinking my dogs were fighting(playfully, they can get wild and knock stuff over) and bouncing off the walls. I was like,”what is that slamming and banging noise?”. But I eventually found out it was Tim’s hands hitting the table lol. 😂

[@theblishknovk]

Excited about this cartridge.

[@rogerlittle354]

Love my banish 46 works well on everything from 9mm to 6.5 cm so far. next test 450 bushmaster

[@ravissary79]

Fort scott never made sense for 8.6 "Tumble upon" =/= mix with overstability. Low twist helps tumbling on target. High twist mitigates it.

[@martinroskres1297]

An you now understand why us old loader used grits as a filler in 45-70 cases

[@lukeflaugher5334]

Awesome podcast Mac!

[@thalo215]

"Laughably quiet." I'm sold.

[@dylankroll]

This will stick unlike 8.6. SAAMI really did a number on them lol

[@MehulKamdar]

Should a 1 in 3" twist and monolithic bullets at subsonic speeds become the norm for high powered air rifles? Add polygonal or sinusoidal rifling with this twist and silencing and there might be a great overall second option for the 338 caliber... No need to worry about ATF silencer licensing too with a high powered air rifle. Just speculating in the hope that a great conventional technology finds it's way into another area of hunting (and possibly personal defense, in air rifles) guns.

[@shaunharvey1112]

I was happy to hear how well the 36m worked with it just bought it for no particular cartridge guess I’ll find another Grendel bcg and wait patiently for the barrels and components just worried about expansion with the sub-x in 300blk expansion is spotty and this 307 is going the same speed in the arc hopefully there was some bullet construction updates

[@dylankroll]

Also this round has been around. 338 spectre. 338 razorback even. Hornady just scooped it up and commercialized it

[@whiskerbiscuit99]

Isnt that the point? To standardize for load info etc???

[@georgewhitworth9742]

@@whiskerbiscuit99Yep, people just like to say "they were the first" or "I discovered it before it was cool" or whatever.

[@mikereimus8879]

Great video information thank you

[@rustyking2728]

Sounds good. But lets get the twist rate faster on this guy, and ill buy.

[@X-ForceBro]

Since you guys did this ground up you sure made it a 9mm ark That could just use 9 mil suppressors

[@2Amend4Life]

Ruger will be offering this soon in the reasonable priced AR line up.

[@retirednobaddays456]

I have asked for more content on the 6mm ARC over the last few years but you seemed to have ignored this round. It looks like you have finally realized the potential for a new military rifle cartridge the 6mm/.338 ARC combo. If you want to see cheap ammo for both, get the military to adopt them. Maybe start a "write your congressional representative" to stop the adoption of the 6.8?

[@GammaRayTrae]

I’m not interested in this as a AR but as a bolt gun as long as it lives up to its claims I think this has a lot of promise. Small action Howa Mini in an MDT Chassis with a carbon fiber barrel, I’d be more than happy to take something like that out hunting

[@leonardjanda6181]

Nice to see Jason 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@sethperry1323]

This will be the first sub sonic I'm going to get into! Very interesting for sure...

[@calangel]

The claim that monolithic aren't as accurate is bogus. Cutting Edge bullets have been taking long range titles for a while now. No need to distort the truth to sell your products, hornady!

[@garrickr5084]

Proof says they are going to offer 12in, 14.5in and 16in barrels (Jan-2025 release) for the .338 ARC. I would imagine a good happy medium would be that 14.5in barrel despite the 16in official rec. length from Hornady. I sure hope the .338 ARC works well enough with 12in or 14.5in barrels. Shorter is better because this caliber is made for a can.

[@AB1138-]

Nah go for 12" they state you lose very little. 20-30fps less supers, 3-5fps less subs. Shouldnt have gas issues but you may need a pistol length gas system

[@niospartan]

Whats with all these arc cartridges? Instead of coming up with even more cartridges to take up production space, it would be nice if they devoted that space to top demanded ones and make them cheaper. I miss when 556 was sub $7 a box.

[@georgewhitworth9742]

This^

[@coreymerrill3257]

" new" ... the .338 spectre has been around a few years now and does exactly the same thing . Problem is it's proprietary and only a few places make ammo and barrels , and only one place has uppers or full rifles. The 180-200 grain supersonic .338 spectre has just a little more " power" than a 170 grain .30-30 wcf and carries it further. Especially with a 16" barrel. The spectre uses standard 9mm suppressors. It also subs with 300+ grains. Is 2.25 " oal. Cutting edge,maker and hammer all have great bullet choices for the spectre . It uses 6.8 spc mags (5.56 mags work for low cap mags,like for hunting) and a 6.8 spc bolt. Southern ballistic research has a 1 moa factory guarantee for their uppers and rifles with sbr factory ammo. It's also quite affordable to get into compared to the 8.6 with ammo being competitively priced with other small frame rounds like 6.5 Grendel.

[@Bran_Nuthin]

Interesting cartridge.

[@texasranger24]

Hey, could you do a video on the Adams P2 aars vs Ruger Sfar vs POF Rogue di vs POF Revolution piston? I would really love to know which one of the new small frame .308 rifles is best, or best for your money. Plus maybe the Roam and Vseven magnesium AR-10s for good measure.

[@SimplestUsername]

12:00 The appeal of the 8.6 blackout's twist rate is that it make the round extraordinarily efficienct at transferring energy to the target. The added energy the 388 ARC provides over 300blk doesn't matter if the bullet goosenecks through the target, which is a real problem with subconic loads.

[@erik100mark]

8.6 blackout a short action cartridge. it's going to have energy and range. It seems that this round is a slight bump over 300 blackout in a AR-15 platform. if it delivers it would be a good option. I agree the twist rate is what make the terminal ballistics in the 8.6 better.

[@SimplestUsername]

@erik100mark from Hornady's numbers, they're claiming 50% more energy in Subs vs 300blk (which checks out.) Also, many 300blk sub loads tend to pass through their target with tumbling or expanding, only transfering about half of their energy. So, I believe there is a lot of room for this round to out perform 300 blk I found in one of Hornady's promotional videos a brief clip of a supposed sub sonic 388 ARC balastic's gel test. It performs performed like good super sonic load, like 5.56 out of a 16in barrel. Though, I really want to see independent Balastic gel testing. I suspect it was actually a supersonic load they mislabeled. Who knows..

[@EvilWiffles]

@@SimplestUsername I agree, not sure why there is such hype for .338 ARC when you have terrible projectiles that are known to be very unreliable. The benefit of .300blk is still there with solid copper expanders that are MUCH better at energy transfer. They are just expansive, which is fine since these aren't plinking rounds. There gel test of Sub-X was pathetic though. It tumbled more than anything. Not sure I'd rely on tumbling for hunting, personally. Might as well just use FMJ rounds if you're only going to tumble and barely expand.

[@erik100mark]

@@EvilWiffles We'll have to wait and see when the cartridge gets into the hands of people testing it in the real world. An unbiased review. I will say it's Hornady's prerogative to hype it. They want rapid adoption of it. That being said if it is adopted we can see other manufacturers make other projectile types. Keep in mind that 300 blackout took some time do this. I have shot Hornady's offerings in 5.56 and 5.45 and it is true that they are consistent. I have a upper ready to receive a barrel and I have on the fence on building a 300 blackout upper. I have two AR-15 rifles in 5.56 and I defiantly don't want to chamber that in a 300 blackout upper. I'm actually looking into this round but the cost is high because you need a new bolt and mags. Also the cost of ammo is over a dollar a round and I don't want to hedge my bets in hopes adoption and prices come down.

[@EvilWiffles]

@@erik100mark Hornady's other offerings in calibers you mentioned aren't Sub-X, and they are supersonic, easier to make expanding ammo for. 338 Arc is going to be just like 300blk, no one is willing to fork over more money on worthwhile subsonics and instead rely on Sub-X with awful performance. Then they'll ditch it because subsonics just aren't performing and wonder why. You either buy proper expanding ammo for your subsonics or you don't use subsonics, period. These aren't plinking rounds.

[@randalljeffs7272]

Great video. Interesting cartridge

[@otterconnor942]

8.6blk with a progressive twist, 1:8 to 1:3 would be interesting to test

[@mrshort2379]

heck yeah Ima future fan of the 338ARC. I hope it is everything Hornady says it's going to be and more. looking forward to building a platform for it

[@jbcaptain11]

Did not mention cast bullets and pistol powder for 338arc

[@MrNikkoz]

Here me out I think I just figured this out, they forced the SAAMI spec in 1:8, so that they can sell cheaper leadcore bullets at the price of 8.6blk's monolithic core.

[@EvilWiffles]

Yea, that's exactly why. It makes no sense to me since Sub-X is the most underwhelming ammo. I guess .338 ARC is more about tumbling then expanding. I'd prefer reliable expansion over inconsistent tumbling personally. Sub-X just doesn't expand much, so whilst you gain added weight from .300blk 220gr, you're using cheap garbage "expanding" ammo that can't really effectively dump energy on target unless its tumbling. So you might as well just use regular ol' fmj.

[@ryanhutchinson3550]

I still think they need to switch the barrel trust rate to 1:5 or 1:7 for lead for

[@DrDIII]

I was really, really excited about this cartridge until this schill jumped on it. Super funny how MAC makes the argument that fast twist rates are potentially destructive to suppressors until (tiny Tim) Jamie brings up the Sig MCX and MAC diverts immediately. This channel is so full of $$hit

[@ryang8040]

The biggest challenge for all the ARC cartridges is that there isn't a pmag for them.

[@georgewhitworth9742]

Eh, who cares.

[@chriscarnes87]

I’d rather see more subsonic offerings in standard calibers, than new niche calibers being offered. We can’t even get a steady supply of subsonic ammo to begin with.

[@ravissary79]

They already make a subx for 300 blk, 350 legend and 450 BM, though they don't sell extremely well. Standard twist rates have trouble stabilizing bullets in these cartridges unless they're shorter than what's possible otherwise.

[@chriscarnes87]

@ I’m talking about 556, 7.62x39 and x51.

[@ravissary79]

@@chriscarnes87 why would you want a subsonic 5 56? It's ballisticaly just a 22. Just shoot 22. A company does make a subsonic 5 56, buy it doesn't cycle and the bullet weights are still far lighter than is useful at that velocity, so maybe 70 gr. I've heard of people loading 90gr, but that's potentially dangerous in a firearm with a can, because 5.56 bbls aren't designed to stabilize a 90gr 224 bullet. Subsonic 308 is already out there, some companies do make it, but again, it doesn't cycle gas guns without heavy modification. And it is only sending bullets you can already put in a 300 blk. Subsonic 7.62x39 might be the only one of these 3 that I've heard can cycle a gas gun, but it's still borderline and less than ideal. It makes far more sense to create a product that works in a useful manner in a package purpose built for it. Barring that, the components exist to roll your own, and many of those components are made by Hornady.

[@gunnaraw]

@@chriscarnes87Subsonic 308W was discussed on the Hornady podcast. They are not going to do it because it is hard to find a load that is subsonic regardless of barrel length.

[@boyscout399]

​@chriscarnes87 the problem there is reliability of the cartridge for both feeding and cycling. If you keep the same bullet shape and size but lower the charge you can't cycle the gun. If you keep the charge but do like a 110gn 556 then it won't feed properly. You really do need to design a round from the ground up with this super and sub option mentality

[@SgtBumper1976]

It would have been nice if the was at least a picture of the cartridge

[@JasonHolloman-n9l]

Why wasn't the 458 SOCOM brought up in this subsonic AR15 hunting platform conversation???

[@killacamfoo]

Q is pissed about this cartridge lol. they had a chance and went 1/3 twist instead of something like 1/5 or 1/7 and that oddly led to this coming to market with proper support.

[@tortol4847]

1/3 twist looks cool in ballistics gel but it really limited the cartridge in terms of bullet tech. You can't use just any bullet with that twist rate.

[@tabithaswartz6139]

So what you’re saying is that this is a gimmick ? Guys could shoot a 450b 458s subs and do more with less. After so many years of watching the firearms industry and how they make money. it never surprises me how they come out with stuff like this and keep people keep buying

[@ronsorrentino6207]

Welcome to capitalism. I’m not saying I like or don’t like it. But I’m all for innovation and new stuff. Buy it/don’t buy it. But what irritates me is ammunition prices, powder shortages because of a war we’re funding and shouldn’t be, but most importantly they’re not focusing on all the other shit people already have and need!

[@tabithaswartz6139]

@ damned hard to argue with that statement.

[@remington7009]

I hope remington builds a bolt gun for this

[@steveperry3538]

You can launch a 300gr steel ball from a wrist rocket, and don’t even need a suppressor🤷‍♂️

[@mattself6078]

.300 blk out uses the same bcg, and mags as ar-15. That's why it's so popular. If you want more energy, then just go 6mm arc. You'd be changing the same parts if u were to go 338 arc. So more energy argument makes no sense, and if you load your own ammo, 8.6 blowout can be very accurate. I have a 1 moa sub n supers 8.6 ar-10. And if you use the Q boombox, their ar-10 is extremely light weight.

[@TrashAnyway]

The point is more energy with subs.

[@georgewhitworth9742]

Energy with subs, dude. I'm not using a 6 ARC in a shorty suppresor host.

[@harteverett]

Welp come on and release the thing… I’m on the fence off the fence. Release the hounds!!!

[@grantensrud9185]

This really has me praying for short barrel and supressor freedom. I have no freedom now as I live in Washington State.

[@dvalinut]

I really hope it works well, but I question if the 1/8" twist will be sufficient for some 300gr bullets in really short barrels.

[@ewathoughts8476]

It seems that as caliber increases the twist stability tolerance increases. I have a 450 BM with 1 in 24 twist, and it stabilizes 395 Sub-X at 1050 fps where my 300 BO with 1 in 7 is very marginal, all at 100 yds. The 300 BO does OK with 190 Sub-X. However, at 1 in 24 twist the 395 Sub-X does not expand much. The 450 BM Bushmaster upper cycles the subs as well without a suppressor.

[@ravissary79]

I'm looking forward to gel tests. The subx unfortunately has a spotty track record, amd I want to see the improvement these guys talked so much about on the Hornady podcast. I also think it's pretty sus that when they talk about the development of this cartridge they never mention the 8.6 Creedmoor. It's almost like they had this publicly verifiable reason for why they'd develop a 338 subx in 2016-2017... 🤔

[@mastermoarman]

Whats the heaviest bullet you can put in the 338 arc? 8.6 I have seen people do 350 and 400gr bullets in

[@letsgobrandon416]

There aren't a bunch of suppressors for 338. I can think of maybe a handful, but they are all .46 call so not optimized for a low gas volume 338

[@AB1138-]

You can use 9mm cans for subs

[@joshfrisby8616]

Omega 36m.

[@OutdoorGearCorps]

No large frame platform required = win. 30% cheaper than 8.6 = win. Industry adoption from day 1 = win.

[@DPM-dp9on]

Good for Hornady, but getting a little marketing overdose. Seems like every other month they have another cartridge that is marginally better than the one they are supposedly surpassing. Getting old.

[@whiskerbiscuit99]

Your right, i mean why did ford/chevy/dodge change anything since the 50s???? Those worked just fine!! Ans smart tvs? Black and white did just fine? Radio tv worked, why did we go to cable and then fiber, what a waste. Hell black powder rifles fid the job, why make a cartridge????? If ya dont want it, dont buy it........

[@DPM-dp9on]

@ You’re a little dramatic, cupcake. However, you actually proved my point. Those examples were of significant improvements in development and technology. Very few hunters will benefit from a 7mm PRC over a 7mm Rem. No deer hunter could tell the difference between a .260 Rem and a 6.5 Creed. What Hornady excels at is marketing.

[@midwestbd7144]

Like it or not every little change is beneficial to the firearms industry. It may not be enough change to convince you to buy a new rifle but we’ve learned quite a bit by these companies trying to push the limits. I love my 6.5prc and haven’t pulled my 30-06 out of the safe since buying it

[@zippy1078]

Interesting!

[@cerneysmallengines]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there a cartridge that is the equivalent of a 300 blackout, but with 6.5. Where they took a 556 cartridge and bored it out to 6.5 instead of the 7.62 that the 300aac is

[@scottfromsouthcarolina3185]

Are you thinking of the Grendel?

[@cerneysmallengines]

@scottfromsouthcarolina3185 Grendel or creedmoor.

[@ravissary79]

Not with that case. Closest thing is the 6mm max. It's a 350 legend case necked down, the reason is is it uses a 5.56 bolt face.

[@ewathoughts8476]

Magazines in a AR-15 platform in cartridges other than 5.56 have a basic problem, the mag well is just too small width wise, and can be too short to allow seating the bullet short of the donut. You need a AR-12.5 for .442" cartridges bases. Current magazines are just kludges poorly done as the shoulder stops are not placed properly and/or are the correct depth. If the magazine cannot be a true double stack in polymer the mag well is too narrow.

[@phillipk1258]

Jason - lookin good! What’s worked for you?

[@LLB984]

Put a sharp point Philips shape, hydrolic displacement. Like under wood extreme penetrator

[@Hunter-vl6ft]

Are they gonna offer dies/reloading equipment?

[@ethan5.56]

Noiiice

[@adamturnbull6157]

What powder type are they using for subs? Something like H110 or Lil'Gun?

[@sethperry1323]

I would bet the sandman would work on it! That thing is way over bore!

[@jameswhitaker1324]

20:04 Ron Spomer has mentioned multiple times that solid copper bullets perform poorly (accuracy wise) when fired from a barrel previously fouled by jacketed bullets, but will show much better accuracy when fired from a well cleaned barrel having little to no gilding metal fouling remaining. It doesn’t make sense to me, but he seems to have done enough testing that I believe there is probably something to it.

[@ashhawk7489]

I am definitely interested. Sounds like a monster CQB option.

[@chetfriday7636]

Hornady hasn't made their 22 Hornet 45gr. SP load for years... they are too busy trying to reinvent previous cartridges so they can put their name on it 😢.

[@talkingrock7011]

Low powder charges has zero effect on my 38 special with either Trail Boss or Titegroup

[@Cloture.q]

Day 3: No sightings of the USS Brittingham as of yet.

[@TomP-nw4wu]

Indeed.

[@dbmail545]

Except the 255gr Sub-X .311 pill doesn't expand for squat

[@WCGwkf]

cant wait for the....7mm arc?

[@firearmsfuelfabrication]

Im concerned about mags mainly and reliable feeding with these. 've fought with grendel trying to get one of those to run reliable. Now that giant projectile and the front rib. I'm gonna let this one age and see what happens. Plus I find it a little suspect that they submitted 8.6 blk to Sammi working with q Then suddenly retracted it and then hey we've had this since 2016 and it was shelved,. Plus their twist rate concerns me cause l've had issues with blackout stabilizing heavy subs at 1:8 now they have a bigger , heavier bullet. And it's stable?

[@Wade-1]

Looks like 338 Spectre

[@SPIN1963_]

Mt. Dew has nutrition?

[@KretinD]

Lol were all the bullets that yall mentioned that come apart hornady bullets?

[@ColeDedhand]

Another meme cartridge doomed to obscurity.

[@Ratkill9000]

@@ColeDedhand Kind of like 6mm ARC, .300 BLK, or 6.5 Creedmoor?

[@whiskerbiscuit99]

Lol youll be so wrong 😂

[@huntersmillie00]

Whatever happened to 458 Socom?

[@ravissary79]

It's still out there, but it's never had good backing. It's more expensive that 8.6 blk ammo, and it only runs single stack in double stack mags and it has aggressive recoil, too much for many people. It's like asking what happened to 450 BM when 350 legend came out... answer: nothing, not everyone wants a "ride the lightning" experience. And they probably want am affordable mainstream SAAMI approved loading that gets the job done with less recoil and more support. 458 just doesn't have support.

[@EvilWiffles]

Use to own .458 Socom. It's not a great caliber for suppressing, its got the same problem 45-70 does for suppressing. Not many suppressors on the market can effectively suppress them. Not very appealing at all. It's neat for shooting 650gr Maker expanders but people are cheap and don't want reliable expanding ammo, they want cheap and unreliable Sub-X crap.

[@patrick014]

5% to 20% increase in ammunition prices because " we don't have enough components to keep up with demand" at the same time look look here at the " shiney new caliber" also buy the new $1,500 rifle for that caliber.