Ep. 128 - Reduced Recoil Reloading

[@yukon4545]

Is Hornady manual #12 going to publish reduced loads?? Like Speer has done for decades. 🤔

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

Maybe a caveat but my doctrine is to always research the propellant which most fills the case capacity then select the starting charge Mass and take note of the that powders specific density burn rate on a chart from competing propellant manufacturers to always be in the game .......as the chamber firing count increases you test and increase propellant mass slowly over time up to tbe maximums until the rechamber or rebarrel life. In this way you live the best life experience and are ahead of the Yahoos and your always cross referencing published information which is essentially where the industries compete. There all good but you verify. In the high technology games I've experienced; referencing the original published information through the revised information is where you find the holy Grail. Hope this hits it's mark 👍🏿

[@texpatriot8462]

Please change the next Hornady Manual to include case fill numbers. When I want to download velocity, I still want a reasonably full case.

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

@@texpatriot8462 Yep, it would be prudent too keep reloaders apprised of more than just " Compressed", but I'm conditioned to interpellation and research after so many years. My friend Mick, M.L. McPherson created value added Metallic Cartridge Reloading manuals which are very useful but not quite exhaustive. Maybe a good start and much better than the canned tuna revisions.

[@KrisKendall-io4hm]

This was a great episode not only to understand your factory reduced recoil product but as a reloader what we can do. So thank you again 👍

[@hornady]

We're glad you liked it!

[@RonJon4922]

Ive been working on replicating the fact reducded rounds for 308. Using h4895 at 38g pushing a125 seiarra. Fair results so far gives a little "puff" at the end, easy on ears and nice groups. No pressure signs. Been needing this podcast!! Thanks guys.

[@Iscariot18]

Torus is the word you're looking for to describe the donut shape. And that Trailboss load procedure is fantastic, jotting that down.

[@brentkimball8866]

Nicely done men. Finally some sympathy for the ammo world. My dad put me behind 2 boxes of 30-06 180g at 14 yo. Flinch city USA I’ve asked elk hunters since for options to get into hunting. The most common advice. Oh Dude, elk requires 300 win Mag. Yada yada only hit trophy at 600++ Your a woos At 62 I’m still fit enough to walk miles thru dense forest at 10,000 lapping the kids but gun world bravado chase. Great new trend.

[@dwightdhansen]

We need Trail Boss back!!!!

[@tripplebeards3427]

Took away the funnest powder! Never grouped worth a darn in any bottle neck chambers for me but in straight wall pistol calibers it's super accurate in my rifles and pistols under 50 yards. I only have 3 jugs left. Bought then 2 years ago for $19 each.

[@atairuy]

Ooh that’s it, you forgot to print the reduced load label in the 7prc ammo boxes

[@gettyt8775]

I reduce my powder charge in my 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot about 2600 fps for PRS matches. Specifically to reduce recoil to help keep my sight picture in my scope. Great topic. Everyone always goes the other direction.

[@doylethorn9251]

In my '06, I changed from a bonded 180gr to a 150 CX. Same or better terminal performance with less kick.

[@darrellh1840]

Thanks for another awesome podcast Seth and team!!! When I saw the title, I knew I had to watch this one as I’m working loads for a new to me .308 range plinker. Very good information as always! Keep these podcasts coming! Thanks again!

[@hornady]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@mckimmym]

Everywhere you look, everywhere you go There's a heart (There's a heart), a hand to hold onto. Everywhere you look, everywhere you go There's a place, of Somebody who needs you Everywhere you look.

[@hamspud35]

I always appreciate your podcast. I didn’t make it to Dallas, but I’ll let you know that your products are my go to. Right now I’m working up loads for 140 FTX for .357. It will be used in neighbors Henry for Mule deer hunt

[@texpatriot8462]

I am so happy about this episode. I don't need to shoot full power loads from my 280AI to kill a whitetail.

[@jfess1911]

A5744 is another powder that can be used for significantly reduced loads. IIRC it can be loaded to less than 50% case fill.

[@45-70Guy]

Most of my handloading has been forncalibers where factory ammo is either one extreme Hot or slow. 44 magnum factory was hotter than necessary for practicing and loading a 240g bullet at 1000-1200 fps is great, at 900 fps it’s even nicer for plinking. 45-70 with a 405g at 1500-1700 fps is all I used for years for hunting and never thought it was under gunned. Catering to your personal level of what’s manageable is a huge benefit.

[@jeffroginsky4695]

I like 7gr of Trail Boss behind a 410gr MBC HiTec Lead Bullet in my 45-70. Very quiet and brass shows no sigh of over pressure.

[@jtee9548]

Uuuuh - thought 5744 was discontinued! Another commenter said he used that. It works great, I still have some from twenty plus years ago. Made reduced 270 win loads for my niece in an ultralite rifle. A tiny light weight Weatherby, yes Weatherby Ultralight, in 270 Winchester. They came out of Atascadero CA if I remember right, BRUTAL recoil! Barely tolerable with a brake on the wispy barrel😁 Nice video, well done.

[@jtee9548]

Got to watch out over reduced loads, lol! I used to compete in cast bullet rifle, reduced H4198 loads set the shoulder back & neck wouldn't seal in the throat - Brass looked hilarious, with the neck OUT of the center line of the case!! I ended annealing, FL sizing then using expander mandrel to get cast bullet neck tension exactly where I needed it. Lapua Brass - 22 grains of H4198 behind a 180gr in 30-06 and 20 to 22 grains behind a 163 bore-rider in .308 both did this. The 308 was a relatively hotter load so did it less. The 30-06 brass was comical but accurate out to the required 220 yards. Metallic silhouette, rifle offhand but on the full size pistol course. Reduced loads only, cast bullets only and they couldn't cause target damage. Some of the animals shooting Trapdoors in 45-70 & some other more ancient big bore calibers had to mellow out the loads, they'd cause a tiny bit of damage.

[@doylethorn9251]

I replaced my Trail Boss load in my 45-70 to 5744.

[@jtee9548]

Thought 5744 was discontinued?!!

[@donkeene1948]

I have had good success in using H4895 for reduced "target" loads. Using their formula of 60% max charge weight for a specific bullet as the starting load works well for punching paper at 150M max range. If the velocity or accuracy is not to your liking, the charge weight cam be increased from the 60% starting load. Trust me this is not my go to hunting load.

[@michaelwilson9986]

Hopefully you have been working on reduced load n even Subsonic for 3006 n others. N with more than 1 powder. Hodgdon has been doing some. I recall shooting light loads of IMR 3031 n others growing up. I would love some 125 130gr 2700 fps for the 06 Makes for a great light recoil hunting load.as well as plinking.

[@Ranar14]

Would be rad to see some people's personal rifles for comps/ hunts and explain why they chose those. Really want to see Mile's PRS 6arc build. But in terms of low recoil loads W231 5.1gr + 200gr for 45ACP can make some rounds that feel almost like nato spec 9mm

[@Patrick-xd8jv]

The softest limbsaver pad is a huge improvement

[@johnpew6846]

I've used H 4895 for reduced loads in my 300 Weatherby for years. I can plink all day with a reduced load of this powder, and accuracy is excellent; however, I only have about two pounds left, and I can't find this stuff anywhere. I hope Hodgdon didn't discontinue this power. H 4895 is one of the best.

[@FightingTexasAggie]

I'd love to see some more reduced loads in the hornady reloading manual. Especially for dangerous game calibers.

[@CLAWN76]

Love the information…I’m new to this. I ask about commercially produced subsonic ammunition outside of .300 Blackout or the .338 ARC? .308 would be nice in a bolt action. Suppressors are becoming increasingly popular and in common use. Is it possible in the future?

[@kensmith8832]

Usually, ego is the biggest factor in the recoil, as pride is all about how extreme you can go. It is like the compound bow community that has people that shoot a 70 LB draw with the lightest arrows they can buy. They have fast shooting arrows that do no damage. Rifles are about hitting the target, not spray and pray with your eyes closed. If you don't shoot further than 150 yards, you don't need a 30-06. But most deer hunters don't shoot further than 50 yards, so they only need a pistol round. I have found a 40 S&W works best for deer. The low recoil also comes with less hearing damage.

[@RonJon4922]

Here i was worries about going to low, the 60% rule brings me down to 25.6rn of h4895. Cant wait to try that.

[@chuckbrubaker-go9yg]

I feel the monolithic bullets are perfect as long as you aren't trying to go to long of a distance. You can go a couple bullet weights lighter and still plenty of penetration.

[@hypervdm]

I download my 180gr SST in 3006 for Impala and Wartog else they dig a exit would I can fit my fist in. I live in an area that has open patches surrounded by forest, so most shots is sub 100m, but I can't let that animal run. I'll never see it again if it hits the forest sections. SST for the win.

[@MrHuntermikey]

My friend uses the 180 SST with his 300 WBY for moose and deer. Works awesome .

[@anthonyrstrawbridge]

Yes! 😊

[@Dad_with-boys]

I shoot a reduced load in my 22-250, it has virtually eliminated odd fliers while tightening up the group size. Not to mention the reduced recoil making it a rifle my 11 year old likes to shoot.

[@SigmaBallistics]

sounds like you should just shoot a 22 lr or a 22 mag instead lol

[@davecollins6113]

Unfortunately, Hornady does not have much influence over what the powder mfgrs crank out for retail supplies. I've used Green dot, AA9, SR4759, AA5744 for various cast bullet loads, AA5744 lists a lot of reduced jacketed loads for a large number of cartridges. There is a lot of this sort of stuff people like Hornady can't really address properly, just due to the nature of the business.

[@GM-md5ss]

Down loading a 7mm or 300 mag for close range whitetail to 7mm08/280 or 30-06 velocity, save some meat along with some powder

[@joshtrauger3088]

agree miles. i shot 7600 which is lighter then 760. i hate it but love it

[@wagon9082]

Good video

[@hornady]

Glad you enjoyed

[@jfess1911]

I have spent most of my life in the Carolinas and few of my friends who hunt have shot at an animal over 150 yards away. Nevertheless, many dream of a "trip out west" and some end up with magnum rifles that they dislike and don't practice with that often. So far, at least, none of the guys I know use reduced recoil loads, but they make sense. I wonder if the 277 Fury will escape the stigma of "wimpy loads" since the price and barrel life difference between the all-brass cased lower pressure loads and the hybrid cased full power loads are significant. It will be interesting to see if the Fury gets seen as a dual-purpose cartridge.

[@MrCclimeGo]

An easy easy way to reduce recoil is simply using a lighter projectile. For example ; in my 300 WinMag, the difference between a 150gr and 208gr is equivalent to falling off a chair and falling off the roof. I run both at max charge weight.

[@claywynn4507]

Another example of "reduced performance" is maintaining subsonic muzzle velocity to get the full benefit of noise reduction via suppressors. An example would be Hornady's Cat. No.# 90287. How did you arrive at that configuration. Your 147 gr config in the Hdy Manual says COAL 1.1 inches for the 147 gr XTP bullet. But, the #90287 congif. used measures 1.082 inches. (ref. 9mm Luger data).

[@A60363]

Good timing! I just submitted an email requesting downloaded 6 Creedmoor for PRS shooters. We need more options for off the shelf 6mm cartridges in the 2750-2800 fps range

[@mckimmym]

6mm ARC with a 26” barrel.

[@A60363]

@@mckimmymarc requires a different bolt/face (that’s OOS for my action) and might be a tad slow. Would be great to have a standard .478bf option in a common chambering.

[@mckimmym]

@@A60363 I’m running 112 Match Burners and 108 Berger boat tails above 2800 fps with cfe 223 and lever evolution in 6mm ARC in a 26” barrel. As for bolt face I’m running a savage 110 so I was able to swap boot faces from a magnum to ppc. Similar story with Big Horn actions.

[@jjgriffin3275]

SO GLAD Preston said 6ARC, i shoot it out of a 16" AR but with full house loads going 2850fps, but the rifle does not move, i believe bc the Muzzle Brake on it is the PA Hypertap brake. the rifle is your standard 16" AR with NO weight added. so yes muzzle brakes make a huge difference. Same w the Ruger SFAR i have shot, that brake they have on it from the factory makes shooting a 308 AR10 like a pussy cat.

[@jackofalltrades375]

Since 2022 there's a new kid on the block that has similar properties to Trail Boss. Reload Swiss RS14. Don't think it's available in the USA, but the brand belongs to Nitrochemie, so might make its way over there eventually.

[@MrCclimeGo]

Spring? I started summer last month in Florida 🤷🏼‍♂️😂🤙

[@Boosted86]

I’d really like to see some load data for the 255gr subX in 308w and also how fast can we shoot the subX ? Does it have issues at higher speeds ? Luckily I’ve got a fair bit of trail boss and absolutely loving the 190gr subX in 308, comically silent !

[@splitpin1764]

Hodgdon has subsonic load data for 308 win with 190 gr sub-x using 13.3 grains of H4895. Im running this powder in .223 and find it works for any load i want.

[@TonyArion]

Why does a 6.5 creedmoor Hornady custom die after resizing not fit into cas egiage?

[@Patrick-xd8jv]

I have not seen H4895 anywhere for 4 years

[@SimonHergott]

Would love to know what powder is being used in the sub-x rounds. CFE-BLK? Why the secrecy?

[@laserbait]

It's not a canister powder that you can buy off the shelf. Hornady buys literally tons of custom formulated powders for their loadings. Most ammo manufacturers do this as well.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤷‍♂️ What Happened To Your Reduced Recoil Ammunition Horneday? I Don't See It On The Shelves Anymore? 😬

[@WayStedYou]

Speaking of this, why is your .243 custom lite 87 grain listed as an SST? it seems to just match an 87 grain Vmax since the 95 grain SST is .355 B.C and the 87 grain Vmax is .400 just like the lite load.

[@MikeStJohn-du5ue]

Not sure why Trail Boss no longer available but it one of the best powders for me. Reduced loads in 45-70 and 30-06 and also my 38-40 and 45LC.

[@DerekJones]

'Circumstance performance optimization'. Anyways. Experienced reloaders have known about this for ages. Hopefully newer shooters listening to this get all the appropriate information and take heed.

[@Perry2186]

Always wanted to try the custom lite 308win but never seen a box of it

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

Most shops don't carry such specialized loads. Try ordering them online.

[@John-sl5iu]

#InMilesWeTrust

[@hornady]

🫡

[@michaelwilson9986]

I believe you misspoke a wee bitat around 18:06 with that example on "Grandpas M70 300Win Mag. You said parphraseing been shooting 180s with x powder drop to 150 n drop x powder charges 18:07 ." Been doing this stuff a long time gentlemen.. you may or may be able to reduce X powder charges. AS lighter bullets X powder is normally a larger amount than X powder with heavier bullets.for similar velocity. Now if one can safely use X powder charge with both 180 n 150 the 150 with have less recoil.. One has to pay attention to recipes..

[@ronlowney4700]

🤷‍♂️ For Everyone To Help Calculate Your Guns Recoil: Step 1.) Velocity (Gun) = ((Weight of Bullet in grains) x (Velocity of Bullet in grains)) × ((Powder in grains) x (Exit Gas Velocity = 4000 ft/s))/ ((Weight of Gun) x (7000 grains/lb)) And Then Step 2.) Recoil (Gun) = ((Weight of Gun) x (Velocity of Gun) ^2)) / ((2) × (Gravitational Drop = 32.174 ft/s)) 😃

[@ronlowney4700]

Velocity of Bullet in Ft/s 😂

[@ronlowney4700]

And, Weight of the Gun in lbs. 🏋️‍♂️

[@ronlowney4700]

And, Velocity of the Gun in Ft/s 😳

[@JamesClark-lw6sw]

DUH...

[@ronlowney4700]

Final Answer is Recoil of the Gun in Ft lbs! 👨‍🏫

[@bryonjmordhorst]

What is the email address for the podcast?

[@hornady]

[e-mail]

[@JamesWalker-ng1qh]

I was the 309th like and it almost made me sad to take the likes off 308.

[@Greyzonecompliant]

Vote here for a 6.5 SubX bullet

[@michaelwilson9986]

All please you guy holler this one recoil light while that one kicks like a mule..talking cartridge. Shezz Far more goes into felt recoil than cartridge... Honestly do the math the Recoil of the 257 roberts n the mark2 would be lighter or very similar to your all Hypemoor.. Get some frigen consistency as your recoil foot lbs calculator dont lie. 😂😂😂

[@Greyzonecompliant]

​@@michaelwilson9986 I dont have a creedmoor. But a 6.5 Grendel and a 6.5x55 Cheers from Sweden 🇸🇪🍻

[@michaelwilson9986]

@@Greyzonecompliant I may have commented to someone by mistake.. My comment was supposed to made to Hornady when they got to talking about rough recoil with a Ruger 77 mark 2 in 257 Roberts ,A rem 760 in 270 winchester n somebody's friends 270. So you know Sir. BTW glad ya got the 6.5 sweede. One I havent played with .. wouldn't mind doing so or the 6.5x57

[@justinrush6620]

Seems like a big missed opportunity for you guys to explain exactly why underloaded (outside of the safe tested range) cartridges are dangerous. You often acknowledge people go against common wisdom and overload cartridges so I think you should expect people to also underload outside of the recommended range. From what you've said here it sounds like the only risk is a bullet stuck in the barrel which would be audibly different than a normal shot. They should also understand concepts like having a more instant burn and a monster pressure spike because the flame front from the primer can reach the front of the case and ignite all the powder at once rather than a controlled continuous burn with a full case.

[@hornady]

We did talk about that. Right after a bullet being stuck in the barrel

[@justinrush6620]

@@hornady Sorry guys! I must've missed it.

[@BitsOfEternity]

I wonder if anyone makes a recoil absorbing shoulder pad where the pad is filled with a non-Newtonian fluid. If not - there's an idea. ™ @BitsOfEternity

[@jonnyv.4025]

Amazon has a t-shirt & shoulder pad designed to mitigate recoil (though not made of the Oobleck of which you speak). I bought one after firing my first rifle (a 30-06) 5 years ago but it sounded like a much better idea than it actually was. It wasn't nearly as effective as adding a Limbsaver to the stock. Motorcycle armor made from D3O follows the same principle, my guess is that it would work really well.

[@BitsOfEternity]

@@jonnyv.4025 That's where I was going - bike armor (I have some amazing elbow and kneepads) is a great example. I have a should recoil pad, and a Limbsaver, and together they are enough to allow me to shoot my .270 WSM (Tikka T3 Lite) repeatedly without tiring (as long as I always put the butt on my collar bone, not on my shoulder!) . I'm just thinking it would be interesting to test that material in this scenario - I wonder if it would mitigate recoil, or if it would just end up being as painful as a hard butt stock...