Hornby Black 5 - Fixing Problems and Old vs New

[@alanbarker0901]

Forget the about the engines for a moment... what about these Black Five songs! Awesome work Rob. 😂

[@goarmysleepinthemud.]

Thanks for this. I am definitely in the market for a Black 5. The more I hear about the new one, the more I am looking for the older version.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

If you can find an older version (but not too old) for a good price then I'd do that. Or wait until these get reduced, I can see them coming down in price before long.

[@MichaelDavies-pg8td]

Older one for me and i love that tune 😊👍

[@stephenmarshall9574]

The old black five is a lovely model. I fitted mine with a zimo sound decoder which transforms the experience. Also I fitted firebox glow. It’s only a couple of pounds from Roads and Rails. All in all it’s the same price as the new one but it’s DCC sound fitted.

[@andrewdonald2770]

I have done something similar using a loksound 5 decoder, full disclosure, Train Mania in NZ is doing the fitting for me. Can't wait for the loco to arrive.

[@OOElectronics]

As well as model railways, I am also interested in music production. This was really creative and high quality - great work!

[@andrewdonald2770]

Thanks for the "honest and frank" review - clearly the older model does have better performance - glad to see, as I am awaiting the arrival of my refurbished "super detail" version. I am surprised that Hornby's QC system allowed "dirty" draw bars to be released, especially given the importance of the electrical connection. The most basic of statistically based sampling should have picked this up prior to packaging and release in the factory. I have built a number of radio controlled model warships (from scratch) in 1/72 scale, almost OO scale, some up to 2 meters in length. I have to say, I am a firm believer in the "scale view" of models. Looking at a moving model, from a "normal" viewer distance, smaller details such as the difference in whistles, "disappear". Different of course if one doesn't "play" with trains and locos, but just stares at them on the shelf. As yet I have not been able to find a time machine, except the blue police box, anywhere on the net, for sale. So I guess, expensive today is just that, expensive! I guess You Tube is infected by rivet counters just as much as the hobby is. No the hobby is not dead, but the rivet counters sure doe their level best to "slow it down" .

[@LittleWicketRailway]

The radio controlled warships sound impressive. Where do you sail these?

[@andrewdonald2770]

@@LittleWicketRailway We use various locations where there are dams/pools and the authorities permit the use of RC model ships. Because of my personal location I had to travel large distances which is why I eventually sold my boats and trailer and switched to model railways.

[@Samstrainss]

The old one is pretty good detail wise not gonna contest it but limited over what members of the class it can represent. Comparison is only really fair when considering this availability of a variety of options going forward which cover so many possible variations found in the real thing, not to mention this round of tooling has provided the caprotti examples. Unintentional problems in manufacturing aside this tooling does a much better job of representing the whole class and that's a really good thing to have overall. It isn't even comparatively that pricey for a new just released tooling, that old one is the 2002 tooling(plus whatever minor updates) so lets hop in our time machine to compare things. 2002 it was launched with a price of £81.50 back then the minimum wage was £4.20 an hour now we are gonna take this as a base line because hornby aren't in charge of taxation or the cost of everything else in the economy and it would be ridiculous to suggest it were so but that's the legal minimum you were worth per hour back then as an adult this means none hornby controlled factors aside you needed to work for about 20 hours to have your new tooled black 5. Fast forward to today, new black 5, list RRP at launch for the base model with none of the DCC faff or sound? £229 while our labour input measure gets us £11.44 per hour at a minimum for an adult. This means roughly 21 hours none hornby controlled factors aside. This model is basically no more costly at launch than the old one was at launch. It's not really any less "value for money". Is everything else costing more these days? Yup, is this? Actually not really. Might be time we stop this charade about new models suddenly being more costly than they used to be because well, it's simply not backed up by the facts. It's people wanting to avoid politics internalising external financial forces and expecting the hobby companies to take a hit in the pocket because they've taken one elsewhere. That's the charitable explanation, in case of Sam it's more likely purposefully misleading to cause drama and stoke the fires of his youtube channel that funds his hobby.

[@LesPaulDavis]

Worth watching just for the song. Nice work. 👌🏻🎵

[@marcdempsey5850]

Great video Rob and what a sound track🤣🤣 Awsome. Well it’s again the older super detail version, hunt around and there are few for about £100 in very good condition, major saving and when moving around the track pulling rolling stock not going to notice the extra features for double the price… Think the jury is out. All best Marc from Leighton Buzzard

[@martinpattison1567]

I still have two of the tender drive models with different numbers. Strip down the Ringfield Motor's, clean and check all parts, and rebuild. Two reliable Black 5s. They are steam gala day running only as the theme of my layout is LNER. Martin. (Thailand)

[@PalmersPhotos]

When can we get your songs on Spotify? Your reviews have got something the others just don't. Looking forward to the next one!

[@stephendavies6949]

Nothing wrong with adding your personal findings/opinions to Sam's. When considering parting with £200+ for a loco, this punter is grateful for all the balanced and informed views he can get. Right now, I'm going to stick with my Super Detail version, but may well be tempted by a future early BR logo example, should the price become a little more palatable.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I think the price will drop. They're not selling out as far as I can tell.

[@leswindeler]

Hi Rob. I just commented on the other video about the Black 5 regarding the centre motion being out. Take a look to see what I saw. You can see the difference when running the two alongside each other. Cheers.

[@nigelduckworth4419]

I have the old model which I also bought new old stock. My main interest with model railways is that I like running trains to a strict timetable. Yes, detail is important but there are sufficient similarities for me between the two models for me to be quite satisfied with what I have. When trains are running, the detail largely disappears anyway and I nave a large amount of rolling stock I bought in the 1980s where again the detail - or lack of- disappears when running round.

[@anthonystevens8683]

Cracking tunes on this video. I think we are in the age where form takes precedence over function. The new model certainly has the better detail but maybe at the expense of the mechanism and QC. In business the plan the MO is to be make it as cheap as possible but sell it it the highest price and launch as soon as possible. To a point that make robust business sense. However launching a new product to the world clearly (personal view) before it's ready can kill it or at least put people off the purchase and maybe even the brand. Over my decades I have seen this on occasions. A launch to a fanfare ends up reducing sales when a product has been so cost reduced it's arguably no longer fit for purpose on leaving the factory but it looks great.

[@andrewdonald2770]

Agree - seems Hornby is a bit prone to pulling the trigger too early at the moment.

[@TenCJones]

Black Fives Matter! Great video once again...

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I see what you've done there... 😆

[@johnrigby7373]

Excellent review, the tender driven 5 is noticeably different. I like them both super detail against new (now that Hornby have sorted my new 5). Sam’s review only focuses on these models. He talks about the early 5 which became part of the Thomas range and was tender driven, but he doesn’t show that model.

[@NathanielKempson]

My "older" model blackfive is superb. Far better value for money if you buy it used of course.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

The older versions do seem to run better

[@samwoodward8491]

Great meeting you Sunday rob have got that book for you regards sam woodward

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Hi Sam, great to meet you too. Sorry we couldn't stick around, but we were late for a curry. Can you drop me an email ([e-mail]) with your details and I'll get in touch.

[@davew2452]

I have only bought a new Black 5, as it is the Caprotti version, not previously available RTR. My super detailed Hornby Black 5s are great and I have upgraded them with sound, bigger speakers and firebox flicker. So no need for any more, as working lights and steam are just gimmmicks IMO. You will see on a well known railway social media site a method to reduce the gap of loco / tender to 3mm. Does need some modelling skills.

[@colinhiggins1618]

Brilliant tune

[@ciaranburke3243]

Very nice rob I have the older one which runs around sweetly the new one is bad value 👍

[@ChadwickModelRailway]

Nice vid Rob.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks Charlie 👍

[@lukejackson8741]

How did you find fitting the HM7000 8-pin, I found fitting it with the speaker in an A4 very difficult to get it all to fit

[@ollychap1985]

On the new one can you turn the lights off if you fit a DCC decoder?

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Yes.

[@ollychap1985]

@@LittleWicketRailway that’s good to know 👍

[@stormbowman7148]

The noise from the motor is probably caused by using a PWM enabled controller (e.g. Hornby R7229). The reason you are not hearing the same humming when using the decoder is caused by the decoder's PWM settings being different. When running with a decoder, you can (almost always) adjust the PWM to nearly kill the humming sound. Especially on newer decoders like the HM7000 decoders or the ESU LokPilot 5 the humming sound can be almost eliminated. Your analogue controller uses fixed PWM settings, probably some all-round fits-all. Some motors will be noisy, others won't. I have seen videos where people compare controllers and interprets the noise when using Hornby R7229 (a PWM controller) to be a sign of bad quality. Other controllers (pure analogue) make no sound at all (because they do not use PWM). These are rated better quality. The assumption is wrong though, PWM is not bad quality, it is just a way to gain more control over an electric motor. If you have the Hornby HM 6000 lying around, you can do a simple test. It allows you to adjust the PWM settings, although being an analogue controller. You can easily hear the change in motor noise when changing the PWM frequency of the controller.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

Thanks for the info, interesting stuff.

[@djburland]

Wow a great song!

[@judahmac1799]

As an American modeler whos into all kinds of railroads and brands, i find it odd that lighting is considered extra detail when its been a standard ever since the days of Lionel and American Flyer.

[@RobA500]

Yep I think I’ll be sticking with my old one, not much point spending all that extra for a potentially inferior running model.

[@gingeronrails]

Was that black 5 song a commission or AI?

[@SpoolUpFan]

Still tittering 🤭

[@LittleWicketRailway]

AI generated from my lyrics, I don't have song commissioning money 🤑

[@carllawton9520]

Oh no, Sam is going to be crying again😂😢

[@LittleWicketRailway]

I promise this is all my own work 😆

[@carllawton9520]

@@LittleWicketRailway I know and you have done another great video as usual please keep up the good work. You know what Sam’s trains is like he always spits his dummy out.

[@LittleWicketRailway]

@@carllawton9520 thanks 👍😁 Sam was right to call LocomotionMotion out on using his stuff without permission, especially in that video which was pretty offensive. It's a shame because Locomotionmotion is clearly a talented and entertaining creator.

[@carllawton9520]

@@LittleWicketRailway yes you’re correct on that one but he still spits his dummy out to often

[@AussiePom]

The lighted lamps on 5200 in that position indicates a class 8 freight train of fully unfitted wagons or in other words a slow coal train ONLY. But Black 5's were mixed traffic engines. What a stupid idea of permanently fitted lighted lamps when they should be removable to show any lighted code. Just another toy train gimmick along with the flickering firebox.

[@speleokeir]

In theory they were meant to be removable for that reason. In practice it's very hard to do so, probably because the Chinese factory don't appear to be aware of that and have glued them in place.😑🙄

[@johnphillipson1107]

The new one is certainly not worth the money. Stick to the old one folk.