You really make a good point. No $200 watch will ever be "as good" as a $10,000 watch, but if you can get 95% of the way for 2% of $10,000, then THAT is an outstanding value. It really demonstrates the high cost of having the very best. You pay an awful lot for that last 5%.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
That's a really sound analysis 👍. Indeed, it's the law of diminishing returns, and indeed the more you pay the less you get for every extra cash
@gregtolley34554 ай бұрын
My point has berm that most of the difference now lies in movements so partner with seagull on an upgraded st2130, and then you have a $400 watch that would be a legit Swiss alt.
@etebol4 ай бұрын
This is the best way to explain why Chinese brands have a place on every collector “with a limited “ budget box. Thank you for giving me ammo against my snobby friends who only own “one” watch. 😊
@Marty46504 ай бұрын
@@etebol Everything in life is like that. A $200 million house in a lot better than a $2 million house, but a $2 million house is still a pretty nice house. And BOTH could be something you really don't need. Even if I had the cash, I would never want to wear $20,000 on my wrist. The people with real money don't flash. Only the pretenders do that.
@etebol4 ай бұрын
@@Marty4650 I would have to digress with the last part of your comment. If I had a ton of money, which I don’t, it would certainly allow me to get a $10k watch. And by getting it I would not be pretending, I would simply be able to wear that El Primero or JLC that are my grails, and in that be able to enjoy a fine piece of horology. Let us not forget that most people don’t know enough about watches to distinguish a $10k watch from a $1k, a pretender would be better off spending all his/her money in a luxury vehicle, not a watch. Thank you for sharing.
@the_9ent4 ай бұрын
There are so many other brands. Please do a part 2.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
If there's enough interest in this one I will 😉
@kobusvanrensburg40924 ай бұрын
It comes down to the Rule of Deminishing Returns. The first 80% of "quality" is relatively easy to get to. However once you need that final 20% the costs escalate exponentially.
@adk79624 ай бұрын
Thanks for taking the time to put this together. The fact that this video would not have been possible five years ago means the consumers are the winners. All the brands you mentioned are terrific. Seestern falls under Sugess, but they have some excellent values. Baltany is essentially the Ali King of Vintage style IMO, and lately if you’re looking for an excellent value homage brand, Watchdives is a consideration. Thanks again!
@ListenToPowerViolence4 ай бұрын
San Martin is one of the best watch brands out there full stop.
@vladimirkofman69904 ай бұрын
From my personal experience Proxima quality is absolutely impeccable, their watches with PT5000 cost about the same as San Martin with an NH35 and I will take a well regulated PT5000 over an NH35 any day and twice on Sunday.
@ernestbeckley4 ай бұрын
Personally, I would not put much emphasis on originality. I say this for two reasons. First, the AliExpress brands are the kings of copy/paste. This is what they are known for. I don't really expect them to be original and I'm not sure I want them to be. Second, if I want originality at a reasonable price, I'm more likely to go to microbrands like Erebus or Islander, or to big brands like Orient and Citizen. If you take originality out of the equation, Cronos moves up next to San Martin. That being said, when it comes to value, I agree 100% with your assessment of Steeldive/Addiesdive and Pagani Design. Even if they are not the best quality, if you want a nice, affordable watch, they are great choices.
@thegorn4 ай бұрын
I'd agree with all of this except for PD - too many QC issues to put them down as a great choice.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thank you very much for your constructive comment. I wanted to reward originality although I have it a lower coefficient because I do believe it's something very important, and 8t may allow for an Aliexpress to really go mainstream and add value and influence. San Martin is headed the right direction but they still have a long way to go.
@Jorgie0004 ай бұрын
Wouldn't say Islander is origin either, Mark basically makes homages of SKXs, Monsters and other Seikos. Improved upon but still homages imo.
@frankyz0074 ай бұрын
Thanks Olivier for these Aliexpress bargains... Always great deals and hard to resist!
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Glad you like them! I know you are a fan of San Martin. Cheers my friend and happy Sunday
@AvroBellow4 ай бұрын
I can't agree with your assessment of Pagani because every Pagani I own is an absolute banger!
@karlsenula94954 ай бұрын
Seestern?
@caktaylor4 ай бұрын
I'm not sure I agree with the way you criticized Boderry for being inspired by Tudor with the Admiral GMT while calling the Voyager "something that was quite original." The Voyager is essential a copy of the Bertucci A2T (even the odd 4 o'clock date wheel and the 22mm lug width) but with regular spring bars instead of the Bertucci's fixed spring bars. I don't think that counts as originality.
@NYGOLD3 ай бұрын
The Sugess ST19 movement's history can be traced back to 1961, when the Tianjin Watch Factory purchased equipment from a Swiss manufacturer, Venus, including machinery and blue prints for the watch 175 calibers. So you are basically getting a Swiss movement for around $100. For this reason alone Sugess should have been on top of the list. As far as originality they are into making homage watches so your not going to get many original options.
@brucecoleman74124 ай бұрын
The only things I can see that would affect your list is the size of your bankroll and the style of watch that you want. I have some of each brand except Proxima and Cronos. Tandorio is a brand that you should have included. They have excellent value and are some of the least expensive for what you get. I bought a Serica copy for under $100 USD with a PT-5000 movement. It’s the only PT-5000 watch I could find for anywhere near that price. If your cap is $100 Pagani and Tandorio won’t disappoint for what you pay.
@owenlaprath41354 ай бұрын
OH HAIL Tandorio! I really really love my Pilot Diver watches!
@goldfools54454 ай бұрын
Yes agree. Baltany is making a name for themselves, with more unusual homages. Same with IX&DAO. The list wouldn’t change though.
@fattmatt2004 ай бұрын
One argument about Ali express watches is being on a budget you can purchase several watches to rotate instead of just a single mid range seiko, and most will have the same movement inside.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
That's why Value has twice and even 4 times the weight of the other criteria 😉
@wngimageanddesign95464 ай бұрын
Pagani Design quality is far better than stated as of late. Significantly improved. I own 17 Paganis. Only 1 disappointed and it was their bracelet. A Jubillee version with the wrong end links for a Yacht Master homage. It has been their bracelets that has some quality control issues. Their AP, Omega and Rolex homages are superb.
@balthazarbeutelwolf90973 ай бұрын
I think, for a tier list we needed a bit more diversity. Forsining, Merkur, Parnis, Skmei, Wwwoor, Lige, Olevs, Winner, Lobinni, Starking, Reef Tiger, Cadisen, Carnival, Bobobird, Moonbiffy, Specht, Soki etc. When taking the whole range of Ali brands into account, Pagani is way better than D-tier, as there is so much stuff below.
@funkywoozy38664 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video ! So if I want the cheaper watch i'd go for Pagani Design, if I want a chronograph i'd go for Sugess, if I want a diver watch i'd go for Addiesdive/Steeldive, if I want a titanium watch I'd go for Boderry & if I want your pick for value & originality touch & I'm ready to spend little more money i'd go for San Martin as if I want to be different to others Aliexpress customers i'd go for Proxima ? And that's best Aliexpress brands to go for ? Or just the famous ones ? What about Seestern, Berny, Baltany, Cadisen, Tandorio, Steelflier, etc. ? Coming on another video of the type ? I like the way you've chosen to implemente a coefficient to your notes. Is originality the most important or value ? Cause those brands are all into the hommage stuff. I would say value is the best, then quality. But I understand someone's prioritizing originality. And I agree catalogue is last. Catalogue is a parameter to improve for the brand itself not customer feedback. PS: I totally forgot about Cronos, why should I pick a Cronos watch ? I am still wondering wich watch I want to buy, one of those Aliexpress brands or a Casio. For now, Casio still winning in top of my wish list.
@Man_Ray78Ай бұрын
San Martin has raised their prices more than other brands in this inflation last few years. I think that's just what happens when you get this much hype and recognition among the watch-nerds, and they have been very powerful in giving KZbin channels and influencers for reviews, since the pandemic. I got hooked around 2021, but still only got the Sub Retro Diver SN004-g, earlier edition with printed dial and still love it! And my Proxima PX1701 39mm ( I think it's Christopher Ward Sapphire homage) in orange and blue, just might be my favorite watch! I love that case and how niche they are.
@Man_Ray78Ай бұрын
I just value the feeling the watch gives me and knowing that it's not a cheap copy of something popular, and Proxima gave me that with PX 1701. Equally, with the 38mm bond retro diver from San Martin. They both feel great.
@ulig124 ай бұрын
I agree with all your ratings and reasonings, very thoughtful indeed. Why didn’t you include two of the big hitters of late, Baltany and IXDAO?
@rickybest0074 ай бұрын
Many brands were missing, for example Baltany and Seestern. We are waiting for a more complete video.
Bodery are in no way original, the voyager is basically an automatic Bertucci, who owns the patent for the case.
@sharpe88884 ай бұрын
Yeah that's an odd one
@stuartthornton30274 ай бұрын
I doubt too many people will admit to that one, the Boderry field watch has one of the ugliest cases I've ever seen.
@robertsmelker26144 ай бұрын
@@stuartthornton3027 bertucci and their straps actually work really well.
@TheFelicityWildcams4 ай бұрын
Agree with most. I think Proxima should be on a similar level to Cronos. They have some good value with enamel dials and top customer service but not very original designs.
@IskraRASM4 ай бұрын
I prefer Próxima, Baltany and Sugges
@youpluman4 ай бұрын
i apreciatte your job, usefull tierlist. Will love to saw there Tandorio and Baltany brands. Cheers!
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thank you! As others have requested, I think I will have to do a part 2 with other watches
@markomarinkovic34184 ай бұрын
San Martin is the best watch! You forgot Seestern, Octopus and Baltany!
@mumohammad4 ай бұрын
Seestern, berny , ix&dao, baltany. Especially berny offering insane value for the specs they offer.
@magnumbrown4 ай бұрын
no militado? seems you missed quite a few
@brunocordellier25864 ай бұрын
You’re very tough with Pagani Design because they build homages like San Martin ! Even if there is no originality for the design, the value is one of the best on this chinese market ! I love San Martin watches but for the same price you can also buy some Citizen or Orient… A matter of opinion ;-)
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
And you make a great point! I only believe San Martin are a bit ahead because they do make original designs and have been building on them quiet a lot lately
@kentuckygreg47254 ай бұрын
Like to see some different movements on Aliexpress watches. Tired of all the seiko movements. Won't spend 200 or 300 for a San Martin with a nh35 movement.
@abdullahjaufer29383 ай бұрын
Exactly
@TheSerbianGАй бұрын
Interesting take on Sugess and Cronos and San Martin. I have a few Rolex homages from all three and I am very impressed. I have San Martin Sn0017 hulk, Cronos Pepsi gmt, Sugess Daytona Le Mans. They are all great but Sugess stands out more than the others and most likely closest to the original. Incredibly comfortable to wear. But it comes at a premium price. On this sale I decided to also get Hruodland Pilot turbine, Sugess Top Time but the blue version, Sugess black sub (sellita movement) and Cronos Smurf PT5000 movement. Now need to figure out how to receive the packages without wife noticing… 😂
@HorologiqueАй бұрын
Hello and thank you for your take. That's an interesting point! I haven't tested the Sugess, now I'm curious! I hope you make it alive 😂
@karlsenula94954 ай бұрын
Steeldive/Addiesdive/Steelflier I have the following: Tuna, 1970, Blancpain fifty-fathoms in bronze, W10, the dune dial Addiesdive etc. Pretty broad range.
@MojoWatches4 ай бұрын
Excellent comparison of some of the best from Ali Express. Only thing I disagree with is your rating of Cronos. Owning the BB38 and Explorer 39 homages, I think their quality is excellent for the money. Based on my experience they are on par with Sugess and deserve B tier overall. Great video Olivier!
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! I actually agree with you on Cronos quality, they are practically equal to San Martin, it's the other criteria that drags them lower on the score. Cheers!
@Mystery_Man844 ай бұрын
It puts me in a good mood when I hear this gentleman say San Martin(San Makhton)😂
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
😂
@Balaji_G3 ай бұрын
More Realistic rating San martin Quality-8.9 Originality-4 Catalog-5 Finishing-8 Lume-8 Value-5 Addiesdive/steeldive Quality-7.5(for watches above 60$) 5.5(for less than 60$) Originality-2 Catalog-5 Finishing-7(except for some rough edges on their bracelets) Lume-8 Value-8 Sugees/seestern Quality-7.5(seestern) 6.8(sugess) Originality-5 Catalog-5 Finishing-6 Lume-5 Value-6 Boderry Quality-6.5 Originality-6 Catalog-2 Finishing-6 Lume-6 Value-7 Pagani design Quality-6 Originality-1 Value-9 Finishing-6(on most watches) 4 (on a couple of models) Lume-2 Catalog-8 Proxima Quality-7 Originality-3 Catalog-3 Finishing-7 Lume-7 Value-5 Cadisen Quality-5.5 Originality-2 Finishing-5 Lume-? Catalog-1 Value-7 Baltany Quality-8.3 Originality-1 Catalog-3 Finishing-8 Lume-7 Value-7 Lobinni Quality-8.5 Originality-8(could be 6 because if some swiss and german markings, i dont care though) Catalog-3 Finishing-8 Lume-? Value-6.6(very good but a bit pricey still less pricey than san martin though ) I don't have watches of any other Chinese brands Tier list San-martin - A-tier (Best quality in aliexpress tied with baltany in my opinion not that great of a value atleast where i live could be also B-tier because of higher price but quality is very good so A-tier in my opinion) Addies/steeldive. - S-tier (i have 6 addiesdive watches, all of them are great one was dead on arrival but replaced promptly, could be B-tier because of their logo but i don't mind it) Sugess/seestern. - B-tier(all of their chrono's are good but many people are saying their movements are broken after a couple of years, but mine runs fine after 2.6 years of regular use, seestern s434v2 with blue dial and gold crown and st2130 is one of my favorite watches) Proxima. - C-tier(have the meteorite dial px1702 with the hangzhou movement, the movement is good but i thought i liked the design don't like it that much, least worn watch of my collection)quality is not great but also not that bad Boderry. - B-tier (i have both voyager and urban, voyager is fine great value for money but the non skeleton urban is great, design is not for everyone, but i like it, also has a crazy hangzhou 7200 movement the second best decorated of all my watches 28800bph and also has an crazy power reserve of nearly 3 days Cadisen. - C-tier (Have their miyota 9015 dress watch, very slim case, nice design good value for money) Pagani design. - S-tier (have more than 10 pd watches, every single one of them is good, especially brilliant for the money, especially the pd1723 air king salmon dial, crazy watch for the money cheapest pt5000 watch, brilliant dial color but they should've kept the long old version's seconds hand) just like casio , pagani design is god tier) Lobinni. - S-tier (have their micro rotor and one of their dress watch with 7m01 movement best decorated of all of my watches even better than tissot prx, and any other stupid seikos(king seiko with 6r31 which costs 5x the money of this watch, while it lasts 3 days at 21600 bph, 7m01 lasts 3 days with 28800bph i dont know how long 7m01 will last though but couldn't care less since the movement costs 60$, I'd buy a new one and swap it, great build and finishing) Baltany. - A-tier (really high quality watch, very well built doesn't have the best specs for the money but still good, especially their mechanical bronze dirty dozen watch with titanium back case)
@H0kram3 ай бұрын
That's well put together! I think San Martin is getting much better in the originality department. I can see them departing from the Ali brands at some point. If they build a much better website, which would include a native english speaker for the translation. I'm surprised for Proxima, but I don't own one. It just seems that their flagship Christopher Ward case is very well made.
@badic21004 ай бұрын
how about heimdallr watches ,they make awsome watches.
@franknovak57042 ай бұрын
When buying cheap (inexpensive) Chinese watches in the general category of those discussed here, I don't really care about originality. If Cronos, for example, started producing watches that looked more like Xeric offerings, would that put them in a higher tier? If a watch brand made original, crazy-ass looking watches for next to nothing in price, but with the quality of hot, steaming garbage, I guess that puts them in a higher tier. C'mon, man.
@HappyMusicalInstrument-wl1qn4 ай бұрын
Proxima and Wise are my top choice. The Proxima Tuna with that silver dial and 7 day circular calendar is just awesome. With it's mono block case that thing is a beast. Wise has that new chocolate GMT polished like a boss that just jumps out at you.
@thegorn4 ай бұрын
What about Baltany? They are worthy of A-tier, because they are above Steeldive and as good as Boderry, who get A-tier status.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Yes they might be there and I rate their stuff really highly in my videos but I don't think they have enough offers yet
@johnskiadas94084 ай бұрын
Maybe not a big catalog yet, but quality and price above everyone that you mentioned in my imo
@HSalamista4 ай бұрын
I was looking for Baltany, a bit disapointed. Thx
@redbarchetta8782Ай бұрын
I own a few Sugess and Seestern watches now. Even got one of their new aventurine dial tourbillon watches. Originality isn't their strong suit, but they do put some nice watches out. My 11.11 watch is the Seestern s456 GS homage for under $200. Not an exact copy, but pretty close still.
@RustyShackleford-mq5dq4 ай бұрын
What....... No Baltany, Aragon, Phoibos, Spinnaker?
@mercster4 ай бұрын
ROFL... I went to comments to tell you, Your mic is too low bud! But then at 0:05 it zoomed up and blasted me out. 😂 Thanks for the video.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Sorry about that. It's a brand new mic though because people were complaining about my older one....
@mercster4 ай бұрын
@@Horologique LOL, no worries. Not sure it's the mic, just a glitch in the recording.
@Boggsy.4 ай бұрын
The Boderry Voyager, their flagship, seems to me just a Bertucci watch with lyre lugs. I don’t know that I would agree with that 7 for originality. Nice little watch, though.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
They are releasing some other stuff that's pretty original (that I know of)
@Boggsy.4 ай бұрын
@@Horologique that’s fair. I’ll have to recheck their catalogue.
@dubester19823 ай бұрын
Its actually an improvement in a lot of respects, unfortunately
@Zonediver4 ай бұрын
One of my best watches i have is the Heimdallr SKX007 Monster (€ 145.-) The Lume is way better then on my both San Martins and the finish is excellent. A big disappointment on the other Hand is the San Martin SN007-GB (62MAS 39mm) This Watch is "unfinished". Plain Caseback, unfinished watch base, unpolished ultrasharp edges and no drilled lugs. The second San Martin, a SN047 (Captain Willard) has exactly the same problem... They can't do case bottoms!!! Sharp edges everywere! These are all potato peelers 🤣 And now the quality surprise: The Proxima PX1711-1A This watch is the best i have seen so far from all Ali-brands. The case finish is excellent and "way" more better then San Martin. And yes, you forgot Baltany 🤣👍 By the way: My most "bullshit watch" is the Seestern 62MAS v3... thats the biggest shit i'v ever seen 🤣 Everything on this watch is missaligned and the support is non-existent 👎 I would never buy a Seestern again...
@Tcgscrub3 ай бұрын
No heimdallr in the list?
@Valvey7894 ай бұрын
Octopus Kraken/Baltany is a quality brand. got a lot of those.
@sharpe88884 ай бұрын
They are! I can't deal with the large Octopus logo but I love Baltany
@dunderhay91694 ай бұрын
Interesting thoughts. I find I'm most interested in Baltany and Berny these days Militado making some great budget pieces too.
@HORIZONTIMEPASSIONEOROLOGI4 ай бұрын
I have the boderry sea turtle in bronze.. the new 2024 models are 200 meters water resistant compared to the previous ones with only 100 meters.. I am very happy with this watch it is the watch I chose for this summer
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Good to know. How's the bezel rotation?
@HORIZONTIMEPASSIONEOROLOGI4 ай бұрын
@@Horologique the rotation of the bezel is normal, it doesn't have an excellent noise but it is very precise with its 120 clicks and has no play in positioning, furthermore the bezel is also made of bronze
@owenlaprath41354 ай бұрын
How can rank all these pedestrian companies without pedigree, and completely overlook Tandorio as the emperor of Chinese watch making? Their quality is not even a matter of doubt, but their true historical significance and current status as OEM for Rolex, Patek, Audry Mar's Piglet, and other Swiss con artist companies, sets it apart from the rest! Mind you, their history got deliberately wiped, since Swiss-Italian Luigi Tandorio ended up as a crown witness against Goehring in 1945, because his small (so small, it was unknown outside Switzerland) Swiss watch company had made Flieger watches for the Luftwaffe, and he insisted on a permanent home in USA, which they gave to him. Mind you, to this day, there are rumours about how they managed to make so many watches in a 5 person shop, more than 18 thousand of them in 7 years, and there were a lot of trucks in the neighbourhood, that had watch deliveries fall off the back and were never found again, but that's a different story. From there it went a wee sideways, because his son Johnny Tandorio, became "Don" Tandorio in Brooklyn (but that's a different story, knowaddameen?), and Don sort of made a family tradition out of going into witness protection in 1968 himself. So Johnny "Don" Tandorio then settled in Hong Kong and took his daddy's watch factory tools with him, so Tandorio got established in China! 27 years later, the now senile "Don" Tandorio eventually took a scuba-dive in the Bay of Hong Kong without his air-tank and could not come up again, because the quick release on his concrete dive-boot weights got stuck, so his grand-kids took over the then still fake watch factory in 2005. In 2027, not having other income after Don's witness protection money ran out, they quit making junk just as a cover, and switched to selling quality watches that fell off a ship straight from the Swiss Alps! When those ran out, they used the money to buy Japanese second hand tools from an accidentally burned out factory in Shinshu. This is, when they came to the attention of the Chinese FBI, who arrested them all. Since the Tandorio factory was however already established and had made some deals, they kept the name for the now state-owned company, to catch more crooks, and eventually ran it as a clean operation, producing high quality watches, that are now well respected. These are the watches we can now buy on AliExpress as "Tandorio", run by good honest Chinese business people and watch makers. So, you see, there is a rich and interesting history here. ADDENDUM: Luigi Tandorio 3rd bought the company back in 2013 and has improved the quality of Tandorio. It is all true, I swear! (I am NOT crossing my fingers behind my back!) (This is what happens, when you allow your child to watch too much television!)
@violinmke4 ай бұрын
Say what now ?
@err0ifyАй бұрын
Lower is better?
@kirkatkins21404 ай бұрын
I strongly disagree on your rankings. I think both Proxima and Chronos quality is better than you give them credit for. And, you missed even ranking some higher tier brands such as Baltany.
@Tyrone27143 ай бұрын
Interesting vid. Hopefuly the success of the orginal models will result in a turn to orginial design across aliexpress as a whole
@Horologique3 ай бұрын
@@Tyrone2714 thank you! Yes hopefully
@Donbasian3 ай бұрын
Son Mahton
@ccooper87854 ай бұрын
May be just me but the aliexpress links are not working here in the UK
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thanks for letting me know. Which one specifically?
@hootonhootАй бұрын
Sugess GMT BB Pro is a great homage - definitely not a fail👏
@SenerS104 ай бұрын
If you buy Pagani right time, you can have great value. They sell some models under 50 dollars, that were previously 100 or more.
@jaydub95094 ай бұрын
Nice review! Based on my limited experience, I generally agree. Two thoughts come to mind. First, I wonder if the Addiesdive sand dune watch could be considered an original design, since as far as I'm aware, the only really similar dial on the market is by San Martin, they are not identical, and I'm not sure which came first. Second, do you think there is any value in including customer care as a rating in your scheme? One could assume that all of these brands are alike in that regard, but I had a great experience with Red Star, while Boderry has been less than stellar so far (jury is still out).
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Hello and thank you for your feedback! Believe it or not I really thought about including Customer Care but I really haven't had to use it yet (weird right?) and with no experience I couldn't include it. I could ask you guys, but that might take a while...
@casteltheghettomonk43924 ай бұрын
Pagani quality 3 but san Martin 8 😂😅 you cracked me up , ya hate on Pagani cause they make a lot of homages Addiesdive and pagani have their own original desighs
@pr4photos4 ай бұрын
You should add Octopus to the list. As good as San Martin, and in some ways better
@Jason-hv4eu4 ай бұрын
Good video! I almost agree. It is hard for me to put Boldry on the same tier as San Martin.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thank you. I understand, but under the criteria I chose that's what it gets...
@AlexanderB.4 ай бұрын
The Proxima PX1703 is everything but an original design. It's a Zodiac Super Sea Wolf homage. By the way, I suggest next time you consider customer service as well. And what about Baltany?
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Yes you are right, but they really put their own spin to it: different case, different bezel insert. I was really considering to include Customer service but I believe all Chinese brands are equally lacking here, so there's no point in that
@watchcollector19682 ай бұрын
I always get a chuckle from the comments, you missed this brand and that brand. Before you know it you have 30 different brands. For the complainers, why don't you spend your own money and buy them all and make your own video?
@Horologique2 ай бұрын
THANK YOU 👍👍
@ciprian69484 ай бұрын
When it comes to sugess the panda is copied after a Hamilton and the lightning bolt is copied after a Breitling
@clementayache23412 ай бұрын
Bonjour à toi. Avant tout merci et bravo pour ces vidéos instructives sur le monde de l'horlogerie. Je me permet de commenter cette vidéo en particulier car je tombe de haut en voyant tes notes et ton classement concernant Pagani Design. En effet sur plusieurs vidéo de ta chaîne je t'ai vu vraiment parlé avec enthousiasme de certains modèles (PD1701, PD1690 thiffany, daytona hommage etc) au point de me laisser tenter et d'acheter 2 modèles que tu as présenté et fortement conseillé en insistant sur la qualité des matériaux. Encore une fois j'ai conscience du rapport qualité/prix et je n'attendais pas plus de ces modèle. J'en suis d'ailleurs très satisfait et ce sont mes seuls modèles aliexpress et entrée de gamme. Je possède du seiko, tissot, hamilton, orient et 2 tag heuer par ailleurs. J'ai donc pu les comparer en tenant compte du rapport qualité prix que tu évoque dans cette vidéo. Mais quand je tombe sur un classement ou tu met la marque carrément en catégorie D (souvent associé à la catégorie poubelles dans les tiers list) je trouve que cela n'a aucune cohérence avec les autres vidéo ou tu parle de cette marque avec plus d'objectivité en de franchise. J'ai l'impression claire d'avoir été berné par tes vidéos presentation de certains modèle en voyant comemnt tu considère cette marque en la comparant aux autres cités dans cette vidéo qui pour la plupart n'ont pas le rapport qualité prix de Pagani. Déçu donc de ta conclusion sur cette marque et du classement. 😢
@Horologique2 ай бұрын
Bonjour et merci pour ton retour. Je te remercie beacoup d'avoir suivi mes conseils et je me répète, côté rapport qualité prix Pagani Design est imbattable. Sauf que depuis peu il y a plein d'autres marques qui sont arrivées qui nous donnent une meilleure qualité pour à peine plus : Steeldive, Baltany, Militado entre autres. Dana ce paysage je ne peux pas mettre Pagani bien haut, même si je conseille encore vivement certains de leurs modèles, et notamment l'hommage delà de la 11.59 qui est juste merveilleux pour environ 50 euros et là je suis sûr que pour le prix on ne fera pas mieux. Mais en effet, j'ai sans doute été trop sévère avec Pagani qui aurait mérité être une note au dessus (attention, dans ce classement la note de Pagani ne veut pas dire poubelle)
@clementayache23412 ай бұрын
@@Horologique merci d'avoir prit le temps de me répondre et de préciser ton choix. Rassuré de lire que tout n'est pas encore à jeter chez Pagani.
@Lbfree1254 ай бұрын
Very good vid… thanks!
@n.d20013 ай бұрын
I think u didn’t rate the quality of steeldive / addiesdive out of 10 tho
@TomatoeOnToast3 ай бұрын
5/10
@MrDiverzija4 ай бұрын
Can we get ranking for some microbrands also?
@MilanCHE782 ай бұрын
San Martin is the most popular, but getting boring with the NH3* movement, on he other hand I realy like some of Sugess models, they use different movements, Sea Gull and Seiko, have exelent reviews, both on youtube and from buyers.
@Horologique2 ай бұрын
That's why in their new model (that I'll be presenting very soon) they are using the Miyota 9015 😁
@infinitekronos4 ай бұрын
I have to say I really do like Boderry. I have the Admiral and just ordered their Landmaster.
@jimmcmellen9864 ай бұрын
Fair assessment I think. I would like to hear your thoughts on "Bernie." They look interesting, seem to be fairly well received by Ali x enthusiasts. I have not pulled the trigger on one yet. And how about "Merkur?" Any thoughts?
@violinmke4 ай бұрын
Berny has a little homage to a Seiko 5 that has a mechaquartz movement and sapphire that is really good grab and go watch. I have a railway type Berny with the whole dial lumed that was good also. People bitch about the company name. I think the Seiko deal just has a logo.
@dirtmike62584 ай бұрын
great list ... san martin is top notnh quality and the boderry voyager watch is a thing of beauty with great specs and value
@armandtroestler36754 ай бұрын
Bonjour, Deux erreurs à mon avis: Proxima largement sous évalué car de bonne qualité et des design pas trop vus, et Boderry au contraire sur évalué car pauvre en choix et leur réputation repose sur un seul modèle. Absence de Baltany?
@petarradocaj9134 ай бұрын
omg you put proxima and pagani next to itch other and sanmartin with bodery.... you sistem is not good at all, sorry man but you are so so wrong.....
@keliacoates80044 ай бұрын
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
@sharpe88884 ай бұрын
It's very subjective
@JohanDee4 ай бұрын
I can't totally agree about Cronos (Lugyou factory) as I already own a brass model 62 mas for quite a while. It came like SM with tools and an extra wild leather armband in a flat black box. A lot of value for money. I could also order the same watch with some other brands on the dial too. And they had some other Seiko inspired models too if I remember correctly. Nowadays they have totally different models. Pagani design is like Paulareis.
@TelephoneNinja4 ай бұрын
Ridiculous assessment. You don't seem to understand what brand value means, also - why would anyone care about a brand catalogue size? PS: you seem to underestimate San Martin quite a bit and they're slowly becoming a name of their own.
@markdrum23924 ай бұрын
Be careful with Boderry. They have zero customer service.
@MikeOBrien19454 ай бұрын
I just finished getting of my AliExpress watches and will never go down that rabbit hole again. Not my cup of tea, but you guys have fun and enjoy your collections. 🥂
@motouno377824 күн бұрын
If you look at any high end watch brands catalogue now they are all homaging each other ! ! So why pay out on microbrands just because they are newer & smaller ? ?
@itusvirus4 ай бұрын
No seagull?
@AvroBellow4 ай бұрын
Sugess is Seagull.
@eurabio4 ай бұрын
Baltany!
@violinmke4 ай бұрын
I have a Baltany Dirty dozen ww2 homage w quartz that is good
@imaginekarma85824 ай бұрын
What about other AliExpress brands like Heimdallr, Hruodland, Tandorio, Cadisen, Ixdao & Ipose, Welly Merck and the other weird name brands like Feelnever, Dagger Axe, Berny, Dwayne Campbell, Sea Knight, etc. I’m sure there are many more.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
The video is already 20 minutes long...
@karlsenula94954 ай бұрын
Watches for part 2 - I would add in Seestern.
@amcc26662 ай бұрын
Boderry ripped off bertucci! Nothing original.. still a good watch, though.
@originalboondi4 ай бұрын
Ix dao engineer is god tier.
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
I haven't tested them yet, they look great but they all seem to be homages or am I missing something?
@originalboondi4 ай бұрын
@@Horologique They are homage, but the quality of the casework and bracelet is top notch. The engineer has the insides of the h link and the connecting pieces polished and brushed in a way that most brands simply ignore or dont care about. All the casework is flawless, no over or under brushing and super clean lines and transitions. The dial and hands and indices are similarly well done. I paid extra for sw200. Only fault is butterfly clasp, but same as original, not my preference. It may be a homage, but its 98% as good as the £10, 000 original for £280. Im not a big homage fan, but in this case, wow.
@RomeVamp4 ай бұрын
Merci !
@JohanDee4 ай бұрын
I missed Seestern!
@SydneyDrums4 ай бұрын
Side note.. that world map on the wall is way off. Australia is a massive continent. India is also huge. They are shown so small on that map compared to Africa & the Americas
@bonobobob4 ай бұрын
all maps are distorted like that in one way or another. australia is empty compared to europe ....it would be like having a giant cyprus on every world map
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Of almost 7 million views I have gotten on both my channels you are the first one to comment on the map! I had never noticed the size difference, it might be a camera thing because IRL it's exactly like all maps
@joostkiefte76834 ай бұрын
Proxima on the same tier as Pagani Design is just laughable. Their finishing is as good as San Martin and Cronos and way, way better than PD. Also, the use of the PT5000 is much to be preferred over the NH35 movements that SM cannot shake itself clear of.
@TXLogic3 ай бұрын
Your links are all broken as of Sep 2024.
@WillyMcCoy504 ай бұрын
Originality? I would opine Rolex has been skating on a theme that was established 70 years ago. Basically an extension of a theme realized by a design team that are no longer walking the face of the earth. And if you think of it there is not a lot you can do with a circle and a few sticks. Yes I do celebrate when a manufacturer come up with a new take on a circle and a few sticks. I have dozens. Catalog? San Martin has more offerings for sale than any three of the Big Swissies at any given moment if you exclude Ladies watches. Lately I have been impressed by Watchdives. Their Blanc Pain fathoms watch is heads and shoulders better than Blanc Pains best selling fathoms offering on the market today. I would take my Watchdives into a tense situation any day. I do wonder how Rolex would've scored on your scale. And as an aside ...... there was a Swiss watch making firm that supplied the various Swiss manufacturers with a submersible case before the Oyster. As I recall they had a decagonal caseback, greased cork seals in the crown and crown tube and enough money to but the machinery to carve the newly formulated stainless steel into watches. If you went to a Hollywood gala event, were invited to a professional tennis tournament you would have seen them on the courts or in the crowd as often as a Rolex. I would love to see one of these Chinese manufacturers homage the stainless Patek 565 with its stepless case and decagonal caseback. As always great video!
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for your take! You are right about Rolex, innovation wise people give them way more credit than they deserve. Rolex lovers (90% of all big KZbin channels) will tell you it's because their models are so great they don't need to change them and that's true to6an extent, but we would love to see some real innovation, technically and in design
@luismasanchez93674 ай бұрын
😢To me, proxima might be higher, and forget merkur-pierre pauline has a pass, but forget about seestern is a true crime!!! 😂😂
@joostkiefte76834 ай бұрын
Proxima is indeed better than 6/10 in the quality-finishing department.
@gagsy1004 ай бұрын
Great job There are other brands obviously as you know you would be there all week…
@zillsburyy13 ай бұрын
SM & WD are the best
@tschoero122 ай бұрын
WD - what"s that? not in the List
@JolynDehne4 ай бұрын
This is now my favourite watch channel on KZbin , such great content and done superbly, well done sir and I got my favourite watch at amzwatch, it hasn’t left my wrist for weeks
@muradmxd4 ай бұрын
show watches more next time, than yourself
@casteltheghettomonk43924 ай бұрын
San martin overpriced by 70-80 $
@sallivan3404 ай бұрын
Addiesdive where? 🐒
@Horologique4 ай бұрын
6:13
@zillsburyy13 ай бұрын
my titanium BERNY sinn homage is great
@replydcq4 ай бұрын
Pagani Design is S tier lol. San Martin is too expensive , maybe C tier
@orfatron4 ай бұрын
I think all these brands offer great value that would cost well above what we pay and yes sometimes the quality control is bad but... For some that have a watch addition there great ! 😂.