Horror or Not? (Dead Meat Podcast

No gods this week but chaos. Chelsea and James debate whether a slew of movies are even horror in the first place.
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MUSIC!! "U Make Me Feel" by MK2

[@jorboii]

"Horror isn't a genre, it's a feeling" - Wes Craven

[@JordanWheeler1999]

Ha? Interesting. Yes it's a feeling buuuuut. It's a horror genre, so you have to put your vision to life. And also any other genre would be a feeling too do to, you have feelings or see things come to life

[@relyesss]

@@JordanWheeler1999 we do not care

[@JordanWheeler1999]

@@relyesss "we" you mean you, but also apparently you do care enough to respond? 😁😂🤣😉

[@Uncle1278]

This is maybe the genre called actually: creepy and scary things!

[@JordanWheeler1999]

@@Uncle1278 its called: suspense/thriller

[@xarenanotmyrealname4134]

You should do a collab with 'Ask a mortician" maybe do a list of most realistic death's in TV and movies to most unrealistic or something to that effect.

[@tonyabrookes9931]

Great idea!

[@andrealegrand6392]

Yessssss

[@JerKur18]

Awesome idea.

[@WYIN98]

Yesss she's awesome

[@dexterdahmer]

Half a million dollar idea 💡

[@timschulz3714]

James and Chelsea mentioned how "existential horror" terrifies them the most nowadays. I'd love to see a full podcast episode of them discussing the different "angles" movies use to scare us, the different types of horror, difference between horror and terror, and how their fears or horror reflex has changed over time. For example, when I first watched the matricide scene in Night of the Living Dead I was about 13 and honestly thought it was funny anyone could find that scary. Watched it again at age 30 and actually gasped after it was done, I had forgotten to breath because my heart was seized with terror.

[@KrisKrisKrissy]

I think perhaps a differentiation between Se7en and Silence of the Lambs is how the victims were treated in the story. In Se7en we don't know them as characters, but as horrifically killed bodies. In Silence of the Lambs we spend time with Catherine, we meet her before she's taken, we follow her as she's in captivity, feeling her fear, and we are invested in her escaping. Even in slasher movies where you might be cheering for characters to die, they are characters that you follow and see them in danger. The only character you follow in Se7en is the cop, and you don't feel like he himself is in danger of being killed by the villain. So even if there's creepy imagery, it doesn't feel like a horror.

[@ollieno971]

Very good point

[@stepharoth]

In crime dramas, I'd also argue that there's a sense that the danger will be resolved once the crime is solved. But because of Hannibal being so beyond the confines of the law, that danger is always present. The ending of that movie feels more like the ending of Halloween than any crime movie. Hannibal is a boogeyman in a way that crime drama villains are not.

[@rhyllwalker8052]

That argument absolutely backs up my view (of course you said it first). Also the protagonist in Seven is never in danger himself(none that he is aware of, Jodie Foster's character is in danger for a short time when she goes in without backup and then the lights go out but he can still see her.

[@slay.interrupted]

*Spoilers* I think u could argue that he did end up that he and his wife are victims

[@MK-hh1vo]

Your explanation is exactly why I feel *the opposite* ! Se7en is the horror because there's a lot of random, interestingly gruesome murders and we're not as concerned with the victims as we are with the way they died. Silence of the Lambs is a crime drama because it was more about studying the criminal, getting to know the victim, life as a new FBI officer, the relationship between the cops and Hannibal, etc, etc, plus there wasn't much gruesome stuff happening,, some, but not much. It was actually kind of a twisted soap opera.

[@alexsam1643]

Patiently waiting to hear Chelsea say "and we are married and we like to get scared together." ❤❤❤❤

[@TrekBeatTK]

First one after the wedding should be “and we just promised to get scared together forever!”

[@jakefollensbee]

I would predict "we're husband and wife"

[@jackbebrin5364]

Why’d I think they were married all this time tf

[@An0nymous_L0gic]

you are not alone : )

[@lexcaliber]

chelsea’s wedding dress better be splattered in blood and james suit should look undead

[@carleighgrace5381]

"I took arts classes, I'm here for chaos" -Chelsea Rebecca I found a quote that finally defines my life ladies & gents

[@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5iZeYhqodJ1hac .

[@cha-cha3277]

“Some podcast hosts just want to watch the world burn.”-Me

[@aidan6471]

@@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch you absolute weeb

[@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch]

@@aidan6471 how loud was it

[@MtBroon1]

R the one

[@killerklown94]

Counterpoint to the point of the Jurassic Park theme not sounding horror. The Poltergeist theme.

[@jourdynne27]

This is a very good point!!

[@TrekBeatTK]

And don’t forget how beautiful the Cannibal Holocaust theme is!

[@kieranhayag9107]

I dunno, the Poltergeist theme has always sounded kind of creepy to me.

[@kieranhayag9107]

@@TrekBeatTK The Cannibal Holocaust theme is creepy when you understand the context. Without it, it just sounds like a song you'd hear at a family-style buffet.

[@OnlyRodion]

@@kieranhayag9107this comment made me go look up the film and watch it blindly, I am in complete shock now holy fuck

[@bilbo_9942]

I died when James was wondering if hotel transylvania was a horror

[@cassandraspoelhof3752]

No. It has horror monsters but it’s definitely just a comedy.

[@Parscuit]

DeadMeat James - "Ichi the Killer's plot is NOT one I wanna do on Kill Count." SpookyRice - "I already gotchu, fam."

[@nina__serafina]

I ended up watching his video and now I can't sleep thank you

[@willhuey4891]

dead meat would get demonitized to hell and back if he did a kill count of it.

[@DerMoerpler]

@@willhuey4891 Also it probably wouldn't be a fun Kill Count since about 70-80% of that video would have to be blurred

[@darkhymnsfromthecoldnorth]

Im 2 years too late. Silence of the lambs is definitely horror. The scene where Hannibal brutally slays the police in his cell, and removes one of their faces and wears it over his own...that's just one example. Manhunter is much less horror, by design. It's a Michael Mann crime thriller.

[@kieranhayag9107]

7:11 David's death in Shaun of the Dead is seriously terrifying, and it remains (at least to me) one of the most gruesome deaths in any zombie film.

[@dippin4dots]

Coraline best children's "horror" movie, we need more horror movies for kids so they can dip their toes in the genre without being traumatized from gore or jump-scares.

[@filmfangirls9163]

Funny story, when I worked in a movie rental store, we would play all sorts of movies on the tv, but it had to come from the kids or family section. We would play Addams Family, Corpse Bride, Nightmare Before Christmas, even Beetlejuice during Halloween. But the minute Coraline was put in, we could have an angry parent storm over to us and demand we turn it off. It always baffled us!

[@timothymenard4946]

That shit still traumatised me anyways.

[@stupidchannelwithstupidvid8750]

Jump scares aren’t traumatizing, fanf is loved by kids, and that’s all jump scares.

[@duckstep647]

Coraline scares me I don't blame reply #1

[@bernebelmont1857]

I mean, would it really? the implied eye goring was pretty AAAA

[@SledgehammerHorror]

Fangoria caught a lot of shit for putting Jurassic park on the cover when it came out, and I personally believe there’s enough horror scenes in it to classify it as a horror. Love the this/that convos you guys have.

[@MoonDoggie82]

by that logic though how many horror type scenes need to be in a film to classify a film as horror genre? What's the cut off?

[@SledgehammerHorror]

@@MoonDoggie82 for me it’s in the eye of the beholder. I’ve always considered Ghostbusters as a horror comedy. I don’t think there’s any way you can realistically put a label on what it is or what isn’t a horror movie, that’s the fun of it some of the things that scare me may not be scary to you. Somethings I consider Horror may not be considered Horror in your world. I don’t think there’s that one definitive thing that makes a horror movie a horror movie. You can’t say death, because there’s a death in Bambi and the lion King, you can’t say jump scares because there’s a jump scare In Pee-wee‘s big adventure during the large Marge scene. For me personally, horror is the hardest genre to nail down

[@jourdynne27]

I would like to take a moment to recognize how much time Chelsea puts into the podcast, whether it’s a research-heavy deep dive or a creatively goofy game, it’s a lot of work for one person and she does a great job 🤗

[@jimmybrown4205]

Agreed 👍

[@krystina8458]

All the love for Chelsea!

[@filmfangirls9163]

Yes!!

[@evildeathcuddles886]

Chelsea: I don't think space travel automatically means scifi Me: Yeah, Apollo 13 isn't -- Chelsea: Like, Star Wars isn't scifi Me: oh. no.

[@JC_Cali]

That's where she instantly lost half the audience lmaooo

[@Blossom_Screen]

@@JC_CaliI think it’s because science fiction is first and foremost an exploration of advancements in our own earthly technology and based on earthling innovation and exploration. Starwars takes place in a galaxy far far away (harkens to “a kingdom far far away”) that has nothing to do with earth or “earthlings”. Therefore it has a strong case as a fantasy franchise.

[@TheHopelessFan]

starwars is a fantasy epic painted with a scifi brush.

[@evildeathcuddles886]

@@TheHopelessFan in other words, sci-fi

[@TheHopelessFan]

@@evildeathcuddles886 Its written like a fantasy was my point.

[@karrotakun3581]

The real horror of Joker is S O C I E T Y.

[@damianprock1650]

It fits well into the killer clown category just like the *House of 1000 Corpses* trilogy, the *It* movies, and even *Terrifier*

[@deathmetalantichrist1115]

We LiVe In A SoCiEtY

[@damianprock1650]

@@deathmetalantichrist1115 exactly

[@damianprock1650]

@Miguel Messina so does *Joker*

[@damianprock1650]

@Miguel Messina neither are some of the other movies James reviewed on the kill count

[@Shardai_smith]

For Jurassic Park: my mother took my bother when he was 8 to see it in theaters. She always says that it was marketed as a kids movie, super fun and light hearted. When she took my brother, he was so terrified he kept leaving "to go to the bathroom." It was only afterwards my mother realized that he was actually terrified. I on the other hand have loved that movie since I was 4.

[@douglasfreer]

I would consider the original horror just because of the way it’s set up with a haunting theme over the opening, the way the opening is shot, a worker getting killed by a raptor and the intense music when it happens. Then it’s relatively calm until the trex scene and from then on it alternates between showing the beauty of the dinosaurs and how dangerous they are. The Lost World I could make an argument for, but mostly for the San Diego segment and the long grass scene. Otherwise it’s more action. 3 is not horror at all. World also isn’t horror. Fallen Kingdom though goes more the route the original does. While most claim World is a remake of 1 and FK is a remake of LW I’d say the reverse. I mean you start out with that terrifying dread with the opening, it goes calm for a while but once it gets to the mansion it becomes scary again thanks to the nephew and the indoraptor.

[@nateds7326]

It's amazing now non horror movies can still kind of feel like horror movies. Personally Dunkirk and Whiplash left me more tense than 90 percent of horror movies I've seen.

[@a.t.v3519]

I agree

[@jongon0848]

War films in general can be terrifying. Films like Come and See and Saving Private Ryan have some horrifying scenes in them.

[@jongon0848]

It's funny u mention that because I remember in 2019 feeling disappointed with the horror films that came out that year but the Spahn Ranch Scene from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood had me on the edge of my seat the entire time.

[@a.t.v3519]

JonGon Productions Yeah, the most horrifying movie I have ever seen is Full Metal Jacket

[@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5iZeYhqodJ1hac .

[@ZeebouSpace]

The Hunt doesn't feel like a horror for me, because it feels like a John Wick-like action movie, it's also pretty comedic too, and it's not horrifying either.

[@TURNABOUT_FITNESS]

To me it feels like a movie that in the 90s or early 2000s would have been horror purely for the gore but these days you get that kind of stuff in a lot of action films. It never did anything horror wise to push itself beyond that unlike Battle Royal does

[@willhuey4891]

the hunt was more in line with the most dangerous game as in the hunting people for sport scenario.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Purge is more thriller and action in my opinion

[@makenapatterson7985]

agreed

[@codybarlik4524]

I think the content is more action, but the concept itself is more horror

[@jimmybrown4205]

The Purge is horror. The sequels, not so much.

[@kogn5338]

@@jimmybrown4205 yea my thoughts exactly

[@licittofficial]

The first purge I'd say is still action thriller. Only because they have guns and ways to defend themselves. Remove the weapons and make the family completely helpless, then it would be horror

[@malks2500]

Chelsea was really out there going "Let Them Fight"

[@coachgoltzbizpro23]

James: Animation is NOT a genre. Brad Bird: *Applause*

[@russelloats]

You guys really need to talk about horror scenes in non horror films, just so you can talk about the coin toss scene in No Country for Old Men.

[@natalie_the_ratalie]

that would be a great episode! they should also include when Frank N. Furter kills Eddie in Rocky Horror Picture Show, the boat scene in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the end of Parasite… there’s a lot

[@salmonsdontdie4952]

My goodness, there are so many tense, creepy scenes in that movie. When Josh Brolin returns to give the man water, and notices a 2nd vehicle on the hill next to his own 😳

[@kermitlovers1039]

that movie might be able to have a kill count. its so gory and scary!

[@PatDurkinMusic]

Inception, when Leo is with his ex wife and she suddenly looks up at the camera and there's a crazy music stab

[@joshmulcahy1097]

@@natalie_the_ratalie The end of parasite didn’t scare me but when you see what the child saw on his birthday coming up the stairs. That shit is fucked

[@ashleywilliams4665]

I need a relationship like this: just being able to sit and talk about something your both really into, and respecting each others different opinions. Also, I’ve literally never met anyone who is as into horror movies as I am besides Dead Meat and all the meaties!

[@deadheadwannabe6874]

I know what you mean

[@hannahmcmurray1791]

I wrote my dissertation on this subject through a fine art lens but talked a lot about horror films and literature, the conclusion I came to was that an idea that connected anything that could be put under the horror umbrella was a lack of agency, in your decisions, body, fate etc. It's such an interesting genre with endless possibilities.

[@Kvile-zx4sk]

I think horror is kinda like what the Supreme Court said about porn, “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it” Jurassic Park, monsters eating ppl. Horror Terminator, scary robot slasher. Horror T2. A good sci fi action, with slightly horror elements The rest of the terminator series, sci fi. Action. Not horror Silence of the Lambs. It’s a crime drama, but it’s shot to unsettle like a horror. Horror Robocop. Sci fi. I do not feel it’s shot in a way to terrorize Upgrade. I only saw the kill count but I would say sci fi. The questions it raises it about tech and how we let it take us over The Purge, home invasion. Horror The rest of the entire Purge series, action. The kills are all or mostly gunshots. Joker, a study of a mentally disturbed man. Not horror

[@damianprock1650]

Not according to Mr Rogues, *Joker* clearly is a horror movie by commission, especially since it fits with the killer clown aspect, he said it was a mix of *Taxi Driver* and *American Psycho*

[@Kvile-zx4sk]

@@damianprock1650 I see nothing horror about it. It was filmed like a horror killer. The murders were more action style kills then a horror Villian.

[@damianprock1650]

@@Kvile-zx4sk then you haven't seen *the Devil's Rejects,* *3 from Hell,* the two sequels to *Sleepaway Camp,* etc

[@Kvile-zx4sk]

@@damianprock1650 I have in fact seen all those movies. And I still do not feel that Joker is a horror at all

[@damianprock1650]

@@Kvile-zx4sk well then you're just lost, even the Tim Burton movie about Sweeney Todd was a horror movie yet it's a musical, besides, Joker still counts as a horror movie since it's in the category of killer clowns

[@jzakary1]

If Joker is horror, then so are films like Taxi Driver, and Natural Born Killers.

[@ryanhutchinson4467]

Yeah, I don’t think we could count that one without also having to count movies like First Blood. It’s a thriller about a mentally unstable man who loses his sh*t, but that doesn’t make it a horror movie.

[@Partypooperfanmade]

silence of the lambs as well.i consider that more of a thriller.joker is defintley not horror

[@MidnightPhantom]

@@Partypooperfanmade well, it technically is horror at some parts. For example, some of the scenes make you feel super tense .

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

The score in Taxi Driver was by the legend Bernard Hermann who also wrote the iconic Psycho music, some of the cinematography feels ominous and tense and the final shootout scene doesn't come close as shoot em up like an 80's action film, it's a actually rather shocking and disturbing.

[@mooliciousmaul6514]

Yeah but the difference is that Joker is good

[@ArbyButNotTheRestaraunt]

I know some people give you guys a hard time about the podcast just for not being a kill count, but I love the podcast. Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this, it brightens up my week!

[@NostalgiaMan]

But you both have Simpsons shirts on so you should all be fine.

[@MrSnuggieMaple]

Maybe

[@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5iZeYhqodJ1hac .

[@kermitlovers1039]

i know you

[@MrSnuggieMaple]

@@kermitlovers1039 yea everyone does

[@kermitlovers1039]

@@MrSnuggieMaple lol just trying to be funny

[@briannacherrygarcia]

I love hearing you guys talk about Crimson Peak. The funniest thing to me is in the director’s commentary, the very first thing Guillermo says is “This is NOT a horror movie, it’s a gothic romance” and I remember him emphasizing that at SDCC, and for HHN. Again so funny to me since Universal wanted to promote it as a horror movie and the whole time Guillermo said otherwise but still did every interview with a smile. I could talk about this movie for hours, I love it.

[@Robbity]

Hearing James say that animation is not a genre is just so awesome.

[@eviea.1653]

Maybe the real horror was the friends we made along the way.

[@axelnilsson5124]

Is this a meme?

[@axelnilsson5124]

@@timo9533 no wonder

[@jasonvoorheesfordbd4297]

Maybe

[@spidey8375]

Who likes when James picks up Lucy the cat its adorable

[@iheartbusterk82]

Lucy sightings are why I watch rather than listen to the podcast.

[@halfcampaign5419]

Me

[@j0k3rlaugh34]

Lucy is so adorable. I totally agree.

[@ohjeezriles]

Lucy wants to say hi!

[@thegoldeyjar]

What an adorable kitty cat!!!! James and Chelsea are super lucky!!!!

[@theshaun6371]

A Bird approves of this video.

[@Chromastic]

Lol

[@IsaacCanongo]

Lol 😂

[@clamp7123]

Nice

[@gokue6998]

Sick

[@xdevildeadlyx7650]

Thank you bird.

[@ImaNecron]

Hey I was mentioned! Also, I think the Indo-raptor scenes from Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom get pretty horror-y. I like it, and I appreciate where the crew tried to push the film. Though I'm assuming the higher ups wanted the reigns pulled a bit, to keep the wide appeal up.

[@JurassicKM]

Fallen Kingdom also has that overall tone of uncertainty and dread throughout, which really lends to the horror atmosphere. J.A. Bayona, IIRC, is a horror director, and I'm glad that after JP3 and JW, he was able to really bring that angle back to the series. FYI, I don't consider the original JP a horror film, but horror is one of the key elements to the overall picture.

[@nateds7326]

"space travel my be a sufficient standard for sci fi" Apollo 13 dude

[@nelliethesleepingbeauty]

For me, movies like Midsommar, The Invisible Man (the remake) and Hereditary is more psycological horror to me, i feel scared in my mind about what I'm witnessing; but not nececerily in my body and my being. In a way, psycological horror is way different than normal horror like The Descent etc.

[@rioranger5268]

still horror though. I mean, i agree but imo psychological horror is a subset of horror as a whole genre

[@Xelltrix]

I think for something to qualify as horror, it's primary motive must be to inspire fear/dread/suspense. If something's primary motive is humor, and it has horror elements, then I guess it would depend on the ratio. Like, Scary Movie... full on Parody of Horror and not really a horror itself, but Scream? That is a self-aware Horror without going too far into the humor that it removes all the tension. Cabin in the Woods I would say would fall between those two, definitely skewed more towards the humor side but serious enough that I would still classify it as Horror, even if it's very light on the scares. I think intent is the biggest factor there, like no movie ever really scares me anymore, but if they intend to scare you, then I think that is important.

[@GothMoth-pz3ce]

I probably couldn't survive the quarantine without Dead Meat. Entertainment and seeing others live is what I really do need.

[@Fitness-iw4ie]

Truly is a vibe this channel

[@mikeywise3411]

i would call the first jurassic park “stealth horror”. the opening hints at things to come, it captures you into a false sense of security, then BAM! the horror begins.

[@cupofcait]

I remember the jurassic park commercials being focused entirely on the T-rex escaping scene. The water shaking, the eye dilating when the kids shine the flashlight into its eye... they leaned HEAVILY on the scare factor

[@dazeyrays]

"i'm here for absolute chaos" is my motto in life

[@emmalogan4476]

if hunger games was directed/ executed differently it would count as horror. surprised how many movie premises u can read that can have so many different tones and ways to execute them to make them into any genre.

[@JewelTalks25]

Yeah it's all about how things are shot and edited

[@ollieno971]

Yeah honestly I think an r rated version of the movie where the characters are actually played by actors their age and not 30 year olds, and it more like gritty and explicitly shows the awful stuff that happens would be really interesting and cool and I think be a more accurate portrayal of the point of the book,

[@NostalgiaMan]

The Purge? Now that is a super grey area I think

[@MrSnuggieMaple]

No not really is Horror Thriller

[@jimmybrown4205]

The original movie is home invasion like The Strangers so it counts. The sequels, though...

[@EyeEatRizzLordsForBrunch]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5iZeYhqodJ1hac .

[@filmfangirls9163]

It is! Im on the side of them being Horror because of how psychotic and demented the villains are and how it leaves me feeling so unnerved.

[@ashleywilliams4665]

The first one is clear horror imo but it does become a little grey (just Political really) but I’d still consider the franchise and series as horror.

[@mireyas28]

32:46 James pulled out a “honey” it’s getting real 😂

[@blueraine8705]

It's so funny whenever he calls her honey in that tone. So sweet and hilarious.

[@amandalepre]

"Jurassic Park was marketed to kids" So was Gremlins

[@xBloodxFangx]

Technically a lot of "not for kids" movies were. Like Robocop, Aliens and Terminator having toy lines that were purely for kids.

[@tenchu7661]

Horror movies: Doesn't scare me My dad: Stands behind a cornor Me: *Fuck this shit im out*

[@zkyrus1873]

Did someone say corona?

[@frmad9329]

@@zkyrus1873 close but nah

[@ravenforshee1046]

Hotel Transylvania isn't a horror movie in the slightest. It's a kids comedy flick with the Universal monsters acting as the main and side characters. It's actually really good and genuinely funny!

[@lexysue9556]

i will never stop screaming about the silence of the lambs for sure being a fucking horror movie. this is the hill i will die on thank you. 😂😂😂

[@snnnaaaaaakeeeee4470]

It's more of a thriller than a horror IMO

[@nicodeguyoh66]

listening to yall got me through the pandemic, the podcast has grown so much in 3 years, so proud :')

[@ndsketcher6445]

"I didn't take philosophy classes. I almost flunked out of math. I took art classes. I'm here for absolute chaos." Hard same. Had to take "math for art/ humanities majors" and still barely scraped by.

[@matthewream1309]

Just want to say how much I appreciate your research and effort put into the podcast Chelsea!

[@prosenfi2]

Am I the only one who’s digging James’ stray hair on his forehead? It’s giving off a strong Outsiders/Greasers vibe, and I’m all for it!

[@samm3335]

This is personally in my opinion the best podcast ever. I also think this is the best KZbin channel

[@psycane8462]

On James asking if there is any film involving space travel that does not at least somewhat count as sci-fi, I think Apollo 13 fits the bill pretty solidly. Unless you REALLY stretch the definition of sci-fi, I don't think that movie counts. Also, totally agree with Chelsea that Star Wars is more fantasy than sci-fi and I was very happy to hear someone else say that because I've been arguing that for YEARS

[@briocheswag6781]

Sorry, me again... But if Coraline counts as horror, then I say Monster House is also horror. Even if I mostly laugh my ass off at that movie, the house is definitely terrifying. Constance is a monster... that's also a house. And by supernatural means actually.

[@lailabase331]

Monster House almost traumatized me as a kid. I’d say Coraline and Monster House are both children horror movies, the line is different than rated r horror movies.

[@musicjunkie3333]

It’s good that James brought up the “kill elements” as a qualification for horror because if that was the case, I could consider Kill Bill or any Tarantino film as horror, which they don’t.

[@NovastarDoughnut]

Dead meat pod is one of my favourite podcasts/things to listen to. It's got real nice chill vibes and fun topics.

[@YourAveragePlayer432]

James saying that animation isn’t a genre makes me smile so much

[@deandrewalker6978]

All I want in life is a group of friends to discuss horror films with the way Dead Meat does.

[@Aster_Risk]

Same. I have my husband and that's it. :/

[@jasonhunter2819]

You guys might watch Amanda The Jedi's video on Promising Young Woman because she loved it and she really describes it in a different way to make it make a lot more satisfying

[@heywoodjablome7535]

I’ve found that in terms of movies that border on horror/thriller, I’m more likely to accept it as horror if the actual events of the movie is more fantastical or less likely to occur in real life (or at least the way it’s presented), which is why I consider The Silence of the Lambs horror, and Fatal Attraction even more so.

[@zaneh5802]

I love James he’s an amazing person

[@jourdynne27]

And I love Chelsea, she’s an amazing person, too!

[@DrewTheChild]

Hopefully he ain’t exposed for nothin 👀

[@loganwittlief6215]

@@DrewTheChild this is a very 2021 way of thinking lol

[@Lucian.08]

I love both of them

[@adamwoolston253]

Difference for me on Terminator vs Robocop: In the first Terminator, the murder robot is the antagonist. It’s very much a slasher. In Robocop, the murder robot is the protagonist. This simple difference completely changes the tone of the violence and fear we feel towards the murder robot. Hence why the Terminator sequels feel less like horror movies than the first one. Robocop is more similar to T2 than the original Terminator in that regard

[@SlightlyMiscalculated]

Since beginning working from home this year this podcast is one of the few things keeping me sane lol. Thank you so much Chelsea for all the work and effort you put into it, it's such a pleasure to listen to and I greatly look forward to it every week!

[@k00pa]

I know I'm three years late, but I do think there is a necessary condition for a movie to be a horror movie, and that is intent. If the filmmakers intended on scaring you. Not whether you think a movie is scary, but if they wanted it to be. I don't think that Thirteen Ghosts is scary, but it was intended to be, so it is a horror movie. Conversely, because I have thalassophobia, I get a bit uneasy watching Finding Nemo, but it's not a horror movie. This puts a lot of franchises in a weird area where, to me, the first few Friday the 13th movies are horror, but the subsequent sequels aren't, because I don't believe they intended on scaring you, they intended on displaying boobs and blood for teen date nights. Looking at the example of comedies, an unfunny movie can be a comedy if they intended on making you laugh. That's my philosophy anyway.

[@tjfrizzi5965]

Best parts of this Podcast are when James looks to Chelsea as he SLOWLY "suggests" what he thinks is Horror to catch her reactions!

[@Leakampff]

"I took art classes, I'm here for absolute chaos" 💀 me too.

[@ajhughes7321]

With JP the uplifting scenes and score expands the dynamic range between hope/despair and shouldn’t count against it being horror as the central intention

[@louise9158]

Hearing James call Chelsea 'honey' at 32:47 has me audibly 'awww'ing each time I hear it.

[@Mello_nation]

Henry being so firm as horror to Rebecca is strange always felt like just a crime thriller to me.

[@tylerrothe3046]

Anything can be horror if you’re chicken enough

[@IsaacCanongo]

E

[@xdevildeadlyx7650]

Nice

[@taylorester2658]

I remember when I was a little kid I was terrified of fragel rock

[@aimeewilson4505]

I haven’t finished the video yet but if CATS (2019) doesn’t show up on this list, I will be shocked.

[@rioranger5268]

@Miguel Messinamaybe ruin andrew lloyd webber's reputation by adapting one of his plays into a truly disturbing existence. I mean, i get the whole ruining andrew lloyd webber thing, because that guy sucked. But why did they have to do it like that?

[@guy11568]

@@rioranger5268 what was wrong with Andrew lloyd webber

[@seantds619]

@Miguel Messina it tried to make as many people as possible want to die simultaneously

[@marcovangraan1066]

Sorry to say it Chelsea but Star Wars is most definitely sci-fi😂😂

[@ghristophermyers666]

Science fantasy technically

[@Monolith64]

@@ghristophermyers666 gtfo

[@Monolith64]

I’m actually super confused on how she thought movies about people flying through space and on different planets hanging out with aliens and robots isn’t sci fi.

[@ghristophermyers666]

@@Monolith64 Nigga sci fi is grounded in real science. Star wars only has some of that, the rest is space magic and shit

[@TrekBeatTK]

No way, I’m totally with Chelsea. Star Wars is space fantasy. Science fiction needs a science basis. Tooling around with mystical energy fields and vaguely defined terms like hyperspace don’t say sci-fi. Just like you wouldn’t say Lord of the Rings is historical fiction.

[@cheyannelaliberte2731]

So I have a friend who is about to graduate from an art program. And Chelsea just summed her up perfectly. "I took art classes. I'm here for absolute chaos"

[@haileyashton4580]

As I was watching this, I kinda realized I think my personal distinction of what makes a horror movie is like the idea of a "scary camp". Specifically when talking about true crime not being horror, I think it's because it's too grounded in reality (especially Zodiac since it's based on true events). Even the most grounded and stripped down horror movies (I'm thinking the Strangers) have elements of weird campy horror (like the strangers wearing ~creepy~ masks). I guess a lot of it comes down to the intent of the film, like is it shot in a way that wants to broadly scare the audiences.

[@BrandOops1]

The joker is more of a character study than a horror movie

[@guy11568]

I think that if silence of the lambs is horror so is joker

[@casinodertoten721]

@@guy11568 I wouldn’t say so. The way silence of the lambs is shot definitely intends to scare you. The way Joker is shot intends to just show what society can do with some people. But anyway I love both movies no matter which genre they have.

[@chiefzombie9184]

Joker struck me as a psychological horror character study just by how much it disturbed me personally but it's definitely really close to the line.

[@ollieno971]

@@guy11568 they are completely different movies

[@abysssun4979]

@@chiefzombie9184 no its not.

[@StarbaseAce]

I saw the movies Hereditary and Eighth Grade around the same time and hands down Eighth Grade affected me more. The car scene alone scared me more and stayed with me longer than Hereditary did. I still joke that it was a better horror movie. Nothing is scarier that going back to your middle school years.

[@FilmsLessExpensiveThanPrimer]

Annihilation is one of the most impactful science fiction movies I've seen in so long. Just listening to the music makes me feel so uncomfortable and the whole weird/intense vibe of the movie comes back.

[@chadwynn57]

RoboCop is the scariest movie ever, imagine dying and still being forced to go to work

[@TheMarionick]

Horror is horror when it scares you. That is what a horror movie is supposed to do.

[@lailabase331]

I get that but some horror movies make you more uncomfortable/anxious than scared. For example, Child’s Play doesn’t exactly scare me but I’d most definitely still call it a horror movie

[@4leafclover133]

James and Chelsea are amazing! Thank you both for the awesome content. Your podcasts and the kill count brightens my week!

[@licittofficial]

I'd say a horror movie necessity is: a life threatening situation that the protagonists are initially unequipped to deal with or combat, directed with the intent to scare the audience

[@mattspurlock6526]

the problem is that first part is literally most genre films. and the second part, most movies, even horror don't only have an intent to scare audiences. Sure it's a big part but there's story telling, character development, pacing, entertainment and that doesn't always come out as only "scaring the audience" because by that definition you can make the argument that some of the harry potter and lord of the rings movies are horror movies.

[@licittofficial]

@@mattspurlock6526 most movies with life threatening situations give the protagonists ways to fight back, to put them and the antagonist on equal terms. Horror films dont do that, the protagonist is just either trying to survive or escape because fighting isn't an option. if they do end up killing the villan its usually the very climax of the film in a final act of desperation and they get lucky. As for the intent of scaring the audience. Romance films are directed with the intent to make the audience go "awww" Drama films are directed to make you cry, comedy films to make you laugh, action films to make you go "fuck yeah, that was awesome!" Horror films are directed with the intent of making your audience jump, scream, feel uneasy, tense and make them go "well... im not sleeping tonight" I see what you meant by the harry potter thing, but they all have magic to combat everything so that scratches out rule number one and number two, the scariest thing in harry potter was that time homeboy turned into a shark in the lake in goblet of fire. No other scene is actually scary

[@TURNABOUT_FITNESS]

Raw (the French erotic cannibal horror film) doesn't put the protagonist into a life threatening situation though and it's definitely horror. In a similar vain The Lighthouse only puts it's protagonist in a life threatening situation right in the climax. I feel a more accurate horror necessity would be: the film makes the audience fear for the well being of the protagonist(s). That way it includes fear for mental stability like in Raw and fear for what might happen despite no apparent danger like in The Lighthouse.

[@jongon0848]

I've always separated Thrillers and Horrors by circumstances. Thrillers I usually associate with realistic and crime driven films like No Country For Old Men, Se7en, and Silence of the Lambs.

[@luismarioguerrerosanchez4747]

Right? Silence of the Lambs have scary moments the story calls for it, but there aren't any cheap jump scares and it plays very straight with the police investigation stuff. That being said, having potrayed a reality so convincing gives you an ever greater eary effect when you see Hannibal walking among the the society being a fucked up killer could walk by your side.

[@Heritage367]

I always felt that RoboCop was Frankenstein for the '80s, where instead of a 'mad scientist' bringing someone back from the dead, it was a greedy corporation. That being said, tonally it feels more like a parody of 80s action movies and comic books.

[@ZimMan2]

I agree most older r*pe-revenge movies are pretty dodgy, but I'll always stick up for Ms. 45.

[@klcpesan]

There is an instagram account called horrormoviestills and every so often the do a "horror or nah" on their story and its so interesting to see what movies people say are horror or not! Another great episode!

[@kristopherartillironjones3442]

The movie sunshine is definitely a sci-fi adventure that turns into a total horror movie when the captain boards their ship from the other starship

[@calvinallen3424]

My criteria for horror movies is that there needs to be: A sympathetic victim (usually the main character) Threat of immediate or inevitable death A sense of isolation (either literal or figurative) of one or a group of characters And a sense of helplessness where the character(s) can't choose to leave the situation or can't get external help I feel like a lot of what you guys consider horror have these elements

[@RalphSnackshi]

Hi James and Chelsea, sorry for the long response but I freaking love this topic! This exemplifies what I love about horror which is that it can’t always be easily defined and is inherently subjective. I remember once reading a book called ‘Cut!’ which was a collection of essays by various horror writers about horror, and one of the essays, by John Skipp and Craig Spector was sort of touching on this topic. They were essentially arguing that every story is driven by two primal emotions: fear and love and if you boil any movie down to that level, than any movie can be a horror movie. As an example they used the movie ‘Amadeus’ and how it characterizes Salieri’s envy and obsession with Mozart as monstrous, ultimately driving him to madness, and therefore not far off from a more typical monster movie. You’re free to disagree but I always liked this approach to analyzing horror and movies in general. Also I’m glad ‘Jurassic Park’ is part of this discussion. While I’m on the fence about the movie, I would definitely argue that Crichton’s novel is absolutely in the realm of horror. Not only is it more violent but it presents the message of ‘don’t mess with nature’ in a much grimmer way than the film. Absolutely none of the wonder and awe that Spielberg brought to the film is present in the book, it’s probably closer to a Carpenter movie in tone. In case you were curious, here’s Siskel and Ebert’s review where they actually talk a little about how it was promoted: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqjHp4mti9qCf5I Anyways, great episode as always. =)

[@redscorner4324]

For scary procedural shows, a good one that was on for awhile was Grimm. There's six seasons of it and I'm not sure if it's streaming but I know you can find it on DVD at FYE.

[@gabeellsworth9027]

it's on prime and it is a great show, would love it to get kill counted.

[@THAudioVisual]

Hey James and Chelsea. Y'all rock! :)

[@uzielyanez5975]

No..... I ROCK!!!!!

[@filmfangirls9163]

You rock!

[@uzielyanez5975]

@@filmfangirls9163 no.... I ROCK!!!!

[@filmfangirls9163]

@@uzielyanez5975 you rock as well 😂

[@uzielyanez5975]

@@filmfangirls9163 thank you lol you know I'm just playing right?😂 Idk man am like that sometimes. 😊

[@oliverdervis3879]

Eyes Wide Shut, Requiem For a Dream and Mulholland Drive fall into that category for me of movies that are not horror films but are scarier than most movies classified under the horror genre.

[@AndrewCARNBORN]

I feel like the first Terminator is kind of horror, but from the second one onward it's definitely action

[@editsome6552]

It's the same with alien

[@airconditioner_]

@@editsome6552 no

[@editsome6552]

@@airconditioner_ yes

[@edgydemon946]

NO IT'S NOT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ACTION

[@CondorCrow]

Definitely a fun video to watch, with a topic that I sometimes question as well. A movie that I see some people consider horror, which kinda confuses me, is The Crow. I get it has gothic imagery, and he’s going around killing people, but I feel like it’s an action/fantasy movie instead of horror. Would love to see another video talking about more movies on whether or not they’re horror!

[@ndsketcher6445]

Okay now that I know about Chelsea's feelings about Promising Young Woman, I'm just imagining her super hyped and sitting down to watch it in that Midsommar outfit like "Yeah let's fucking get these assholes!" only to get more and more pissed off as the movie goes on.

[@IJohnSmith]

What do you guys think about these: Dead Ringers (1988) Spoorloos (1988) Safe (1995) Cure (1997) Lost Highway (1997) Eyes Wide Shut (1999) I’m Thinking of Ending Things (2020) Horror or not?

[@Ryan619107]

On the last podcast, they both agreed that I'm Thinking of Ending Things (the movie, at least) isn't horror.

[@IJohnSmith]

@@Ryan619107 I certainly think its horror. Surrealist existential horror! What do you think?

[@Ryan619107]

@@IJohnSmith Yeah, I agree. My first watch, I was getting horror vibes from the start up until the ballet scene. Just because the conclusion defuses most of the tension doesn't mean that tension wasn't there for 90% of the movie.

[@True-Sea-Turtle]

A Turtle has swam across many oceans. A Turtle has traversed many dangerous paths. A Turtle has encountered many deadly sea creatures. A Turtle has put its own life in danger just for the sole reason of being able to certify this podcast with a Turtle Badge Of Approval.

[@Chromastic]

Lol

[@jackattack2421]

Oh my god I’m so early on a turtles comment, it’s an honor

[@GothMoth-pz3ce]

Neat.

[@IsaacCanongo]

Lol 😂

[@jasonvoorhees310]

I loved this discussion. I think all these films have elements of horror, that's the great thing with film. This was my favorite podcast, thanks James and Chelsea✌😁 Perfect example: The Terminator Sci-fi action with slasher elements.

[@Ridiculous__Nicholas]

I love your guys relationship. It’s beautiful that you guys share this love for horror and can enjoy doing this podcast together

[@markbasilejr9808]

i did take philosophy and I do differentiate between sci fi (hard and soft) from Space Opera and Star Wars is a Space Opera. S.O. has space as the setting but no science or basis therein.