Horseshoe Curve Minor Derailment on July 31, 1991

In the summer of 1991 the Railroaders Memorial Museum had the Horseshoe Curve visitors site closed for renovations and installation of the funicular. Dad and I didn't know this so we were pretty disappointed when we showed up on the evening of July 31. We decided to poke around a bit anyway so we went through the tunnel and parked about 1/4 mile away out of sight on the old siding alignment and walked in to the backside of the curve. At about 7:30 PM a loaded slab train came pounding up the hill from Altoona, but something didn't look right. It turns out that the lead truck of the first gon was on the ground shooting sparks and popping out pandrol clips. We were able to flag down the helpers and they got the train stopped short of MG Tower, where it would have torn up the plant pretty good. The scanner chatter verifies what happened. That's my dad hustling up to the helper crew to tell them what happened. The rear end crew was pretty grateful and gave dad and I the nickel tour of the helpers. Later after we hiked in to MG the brass hats not only let us stick around, they treated us to some spring water in MG Tower! By then it was too dark to get video of the set out gon, but the wheels of the lead truck didn't have any flanges left on them. Note that in my exuberance I misidentified the SD50's on the head end as SD60's in the video.

[@Conraildan]

that was a classic roll by inspection, good job guys! This is one of the advantages that the tower operator was for and is obviously a disadvantage now.

[@formidable38]

Those SD40's on the back sound f****n awesome!

[@cp256]

Yes, a Pandrol clip is the squigley spring clip that holds the rail to the ties. Dad and I had a lot of great railfanning trips. I miss him a lot.

[@sitsia3808]

sad..

[@longwhip]

We derailed like that and was only pulling 300 amps and could not feel it on the ground. I happend to be pulling out of a siding and saw the cars sliding up toward the mainline right toward me...right behind the power consist they would not have known anything until they hit the first crossing and it would have took a chance RE-RAILING...nice video!!

[@cp256]

A gon is a gondola, an open top freight car that is loaded from above. Helpers are extra locomotives, usually added to the front or rear of a train to help lift a train up a hill or provide extra braking power when going down a hill. The nickle tour of the helpers just means we invited into the cab (operating compartment) of the rear set of locomotives. MG is Mid Grade tower, roughly half way up the hill from Altoona to Gallitzin, where trains can switch tracks. Still there, but closed.

[@donconklin1770]

Nice work and olden day catches! Good on you for telling the helper crew

[@desertfoxx1823]

whoa that was awesome.......great job of you guys catching the prob and letting the pushers know

[@fireshorts5789]

Kinda sad how if that happened today, they'd probably spend more trying bitching you for trespassing on the tracks than they would for thanking you. Railroading sure was more friendly and laid back.

[@bryanleikheim9631]

ALTO did NOT have a good day that day. The radio speaks for itself.

[@NOVARailandWeatherEnthusiast]

28 years later, a major derailment happens on the curve

[@zigman8550]

CSX RF&P Guy-Another derailment AGAIN 2 weeks later on 7-26-19

[@Goetterdaemmerung86]

Another derailment just happened a couple hours ago, not major but there will be delays.

[@tropicalties3806]

Good Catch guys! We need guys like you line side to give us inspections!

[@cp256]

They seemed to believe us. Normal stop, was going so slow uphill that all they had to do was throttle back and set enough air to keep the train from rolling back too much. We decided to head forward to MG Tower where we knew they would set out the bad order car. It was several hours before the train cleared the plant at MG.

[@parkyhobo5688]

Always nice when a railfan can save the railroad a little money by helping out...

[@southgatetrain]

Great video! I wish there were still some Conrail locomotives paint around!

[@Hanksabutt]

Are you sure? I thought they were all gone...

[@bodymanruss518]

I wish the same,..my Dad worked for Conrail for over 30 yrs. I sure do miss him,....would be nice to see an old Conrail engine.

[@ksrailfan1008]

Even 28 years ago they were smart enough to use pushers that most likely prevented a much larger wreck

[@canadiantimberwolf1]

You know,it is amazing how a simple decision too take another route and stay can bring such events. Amazing and with all these cameras out there is is only a matter of time that stuff like this is bound too happen. In this case you were able too get the attention of the crew. At some point it will happen that someone sees a real derailment or train car collision. I just pray that who ever does, is NEVER in a position too get caught up in the wreck. Just always becareful....everyone.

[@jtq69]

Yep 28 years later but a much bigger wreck. Clean up was lightning fast and efficient. Says a lot for Hulcher and NS MoW.

[@jaeFFCC]

Oh man! a precise moment! Terrific!

[@Snakeytown]

Nice video! Credit to you and your dad for letting them know and for them for not being jerks about it....

[@cedericocosantorini8013]

Crystal clear info. Thanks a lot! I thought the nickle tour meant they invited you on board a unit while moving the train back up to MG Tower, but no, you hiked the way up if I'm not mistaken, while the derailment was being fixed somehow...

[@Boss302fan]

Well said Wonkawillie. I miss my dad as well. Go look at some trains and think of him. He'd be proud.

[@BenjaminEsposti]

Lucky, that could have turned out much worse! I've heard of derailments happening where one set of wheels drag for a couple of miles before finally coming apart and derailing the rest of the train.

[@freighttrainsahpassing9790]

Good of you to help out !!

[@b3j8]

I can't believe that gon actually stayed coupled and the rear truck on the rails w/that much train plus the pushers behind it! Most times it would've derailed and w/the pushers still moving the rest of the train forward, things would have piled up right there!

[@railseast]

Simply amazing catch, great job notifying the crew, fine work guys

[@joestrainworldvideos3977]

Fantastic trains. Super video. 👍👍👌👌👌👌

[@cp256]

Any VHF scanner that can receive 160.000 to 161.565 will be able to receive most railroad voice communications, for now. Railroads are changing to digital radios that typical VHF scanners won't be able to receive. It is a complicated subject, I suggest googling "railroad radio" for more info.

[@T1_Productions]

The locomotives in the video are still around today. 6089 is currently GECX 7316 6858 is currently NS 6712 6845 is currently NS 6703 6384 is currently NS 3344 And 6387 is currently NS 3346

[@cp256]

That's nice to know. I hadn't thought to check.

[@DASCO2136]

Not anymore. The 6858 and 6845 have been retired & scrapped in 2019. 6089 probably met the same fate, not 100% sure. 3346 was retired this year and sold to a recycling company in Illinois, presumably for scrap. Only the 3344 remains

[@T1_Productions]

@@DASCO2136 uh uh 🙄. No way

[@T1_Productions]

@@DASCO2136 6858 & 6845 were rebuilt. I think?

[@DASCO2136]

No. They were slated to be part of the SD60E rebuilds but NS ended the program in 2017. Out of the 135 units rebuilt, there were no ex Conrail SD60s included

[@SJRailroader31]

Lukily you guys were there at the right time!

[@billgoldberg5935]

Thanks for telling them.

[@cp256]

@formidable38 I have always loved the sound of helpers going away in RUN-8. No train sounds to pollute the sound of turbocharged 645's or 710's screaming for all they're worth. A great spot for that is at SLOPE by 24th St in Altoona. The GEs just don't have the right sound for me.

[@17Kristof]

Good job. Must have been awesome day for you guys.

[@cp256]

@EMDC501 I have always enjoyed the sound of helpers going away in the company notch. The 24th St overpass by the site of old SLOPE tower is a great spot for that. I have some 1998 vid from there too.

[@gunsaway1]

Some railroad crews cuss the rail fans with good reason, but these guys saved their bacon.

[@78crazyman78]

+gunsaway1 Different times id say!

[@rearspeaker6364]

+Crazyman Motovlogs second that.......

[@trainmandan05]

That guy on the SD40 was probably coming out to yell at you for trespassing until you told him about the gon. Nice video.

[@jameshenry8015]

We drove the long way around via Glenwhite Road on the back side of the Curve, over Tunnel Hill and then down Sugar Run Road where we parked, climbed up to the tracks and walked about a mile and half east to MG Tower. We would have been better off hiking there from the curve! There was a set out track at MG where the derailed bad order gon was placed and the rest of the train was inspected and sent on its way.

[@peachtree67]

Great video of the Curve and Big Blue with a derailment!

[@canadiantimberwolf1]

I know that there has been a couple in recent times with the NS _"We've hit the ground hard" and we see darn near collisions a crossings...I just hope everyone will be as careful as possible and I hope,with those who are close too the tracks as a train approaches, is never inadvertently caught up in an accident. Shoot safe and clear always...I hope too capture with you one day when i get back home too Canada one day. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2011....BE SAFE

[@9005067]

you guys did a wonderful job ,you saved lives and a lot of expense

[@robertgift]

Bravo in getting the attention of the helper crew! Thank you. Did they at first not believe you? Emergency brake application, or just a slow to stop? Did you walk back down the track to see where the derail occurred? How long to get the train moving? Thank you.

[@cp256]

@youbite1 There is some footage from in the cab of the lead helper and some nearly useless after dark shots up near the head end at and in MG Tower and of the Broadway passing the tower. Dad and I for some reason parked near Benny and walked the ROW into MG and unfortunately it was dark by the time we got there. They had set out the derailed gon at MG and the flanges were completely ground off the front truck. I don't recall if I got that on vid because it was almost pitch black by then.

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

A couple of years ago on a pizza delivery I was stuck at a UP crossing and about the middle of the train I started hearing BANG,,,, BANG,,,, BANG!!! Then saw a car pass and I could SEE one wheel with about 1/4 to 1/3 of the flange gone. I immediately called the UP 800 number on the box at the crossing and told them. They were happy a foamer called to tell them. The guy I was talking to quickly knew which train I was talking about. That’s the 3rd broken flange I have seen. It’s makes a distinct and loud noise like a Gorilla whacking an anvil with a sledgehammer and you can easily hear it over the noise of the train. One railroad employee told me years ago to call the railroad or police if you see one because it can cause a derailment. If I see one again I want to get a video of it.

[@bettyboop65340]

great job guys

[@BEANCROAKLY]

You my friend...are a Conrail hero!!

[@PRRk4s1361fan]

I just want to let you guys know Norfolk Southern has decided that they're ripping out Alto to re-align slope interlocking and the PRR Gantry Signals too not just the ones around the 17th street bridge but the ALL of them. I've already got my farewell shots but you guys might want to make your way down by this fall to take some as well.

[@robertgift]

Would be interesting to see where the wheels came off the rails, evidenced by drag scaring.

[@TheRealJRC]

If they would have made it to the interlocking at MG that would have been it. It would have been a hell of a wreck.

[@cp256]

@fizzlejibbs We were trespassing at both ends of the affair so we were plenty happy to get the nickel tour of MG and some cold water.

[@iRECKONER]

WHOA what a catch!!!! that is amazing!!!!!!! So is a Pandrol Clip those things that keep the tie alighned ? I know what your talking about just never really knew thier purpose. Sounds like a grand time you had with you Dad!!!! That is awesome!! So rare!!

[@tigermki]

i was just up there yesterday for my birthday and what not and just as we get there one of the 2 trains goes into emergency for some sort of air problem\brake problem and had the track backed up for 3 hours

[@kurt8986]

Awesome video your pops is the.man

[@cp256]

@b18cyacrxs Both of us were yelling slightly different things so I think it may have been a combination of "first car" and "front gon" is derailed.

[@Hail2Pitt412]

Excellent Video.

[@skylinrr34]

awsome video,,, just lisinin to those locomotives ful throthle, thats just amazing

[@PABackyardRevivals]

And just like that it wasn't the end 28 years later

[@haroldreardon8070]

b3j8: With the wheels on the outside of the curve, they would probably run there for a while UNTIL the train went into a right hand curve. Everything would fall apart then. The pushers are not going to cause a derailment under these circumstances because they cannot push that hard. They can only pick up a portion of the rear half or less of the train. The other thing that will cause the derailment 'before' the right hand curve is to finally have the wheels dig in and flip the truck sideways and the crap hits the fan at that time irregardless of curved or straight track.

[@guilford681]

Nice save you guys! Coulda gotten bad or could have really damaged stuff!!!

[@83dubbie]

Great catch man!

[@cp256]

@derail14 steel slabs. Dad and I went up to MG after, but by the time we hiked in it was dark. The head end got stopped about 1/4 mile east of the interlocking. It would have been a mess.

[@OhioRails]

AMAZING!

[@juvmol]

thumbs up great story great video ! also favorites

[@EMDSD14R]

you guys did good..tht could have done some serious damage...tht thing was kicking up alot of dust and sparks

[@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014]

Atleast this was before NS and CSX killed Conrail.

[@strikefighter0497]

When I was little and I watched videos of conrail trains I called them snail train. I think the logo resembles a snail shell

[@davidfrobel7582]

wow good vidio, i remember riding whith my farther as a kid in england on the old steamers shoverling coal in to it,,,and how they skreeched around the bends like that,,,i always wonderd how they stayed on the tracks,,,,,lol

[@butti9249]

Good job !

[@iloveRUSSIAAA]

there is a website called radio refernce and they have quit a few differnt railroads you can listen off of i use it all the time

[@488scooby]

well done lads,

[@derail14]

Good thing ya got em stopped as they would have ripped out mg interlocking in about 5 more mins, What was in those gons?

[@TheBestTrainsAreReal]

Nice work! Where i live if you are derailed you have no time to tell the train crew *cough* Amtrak *cough*

[@PRRK4Lover]

wow, i just watched this fro liek the 4th time and it still amazes me. It just makes me want to go back to the curve sooner than later.

[@cedericocosantorini8013]

A lot of jargon in your description. Silly novice's questions, if you allow me: What is/are: - gon? - helpers, with respect to the rear end crew? - nickel tour of the helpers? -What is the MG Tower for, and is it still there? Thanks!

[@ChillicotheTrains]

pretty crazy lol, very cool video

[@cp256]

Bad day for sure, different train on the east side of Altoona.

[@cp256]

@PRRK4Lover There was some rail laid down for regular maintenance as far as I know.

[@k5elevencinc0]

I miss Conrail.

[@cp256]

@BNSFandSP I feel better when there's nothing wrong and I don't have to tell them anything!

[@pwalpar]

Awesome catch, they were lucky the rest of the cars didnt derail.

[@JJRicks]

pwalpar hey pwalpar

[@NS6677]

@LycoValleyRRFan Most likely rippped it down, remember what happened with MO?

[@formidable38]

@cp256 I agree. No GE can match a turbo 645 for sound, period!

[@NSAaron]

"Charlie Sugar Extra" Even Conrail had their interpretation of CSX.

[@epiccsx]

Video of fallen flag railroads in operation, Bonus Level Unlocked +1,000,000 Foamer Points

[@NS6677]

@LycoValleyRRFan It fell apart when they tried to move it

[@adtrains75]

nice video that must have been cool!

[@cp256]

I held the scanner close to the vidcam.

[@RaisedLetter]

I bet that one of the most unfortunate trains conrail ever had

[@marioramos7254]

Brasil !!!...👋👋👋...👏👏👏...👍👍👍...

[@wafflesandcarolina9344]

Nowadays Norfolk Southern would have you arrested sadly.

[@BUNCHofxs]

you call them gons to? I thought i was the only person ever to call them that.

[@iceman977th]

Was that the same train saying they were in emergency? Or was that just a bad day for the big blue? Lol.

[@CSX318]

6779 was an SD 50 leading another train coming the other way. They heard about a derailment and went into emergency in case there was a problem ahead.

[@cp256]

@conrailqualityguy As I noted in the description at the time of posting.

[@formidable38]

@meccaturbo Yes, you are quite correct, it is my opinion. You are very observant, give ya'self a pat on the back! Well done!

[@FrasierMedia]

wow! you got LUCKY

[@derail14]

they would have tore out MG thats what would have happened.

[@slyfoxyandalifesaver]

Did anybody get the registation of that car?!

[@randomdude440]

Was the tracks at the curve originally owned by Conrail?

[@nathanvitchner4104]

How do they go about rerailing out in the field like that. Crib block? wood?

[@cp256]

+Nathan Vitchner It depends on how serious the derailment is. It can be as simple as using a frog to walk an axle back onto the rail and as complex as using one or more cranes to lift entire cars. In this case the flanges were ground off of the axles on the derailed truck so the gondola was set out until the axles or the whole truck could be replaced. I don't know exactly how it was done in this case, but it could have been as simple as using some cribbing and jacks to roll the old axles out and the new ones in.

[@nathanvitchner4104]

In the coal mine. We run em through the "right side". Like u say through the frog and they pop right back on. Lil rough on the switch . Lot easier that jacking.

[@fordlukebo]

what kind and where do you get the radio to listen to railroad operator?

[@JJRicks]

fordlukebo scanner

[@LycoValleyRRFan]

@PRRk4s1361fan What are they going to do with Alto save it are rip it down.

[@LycoValleyRRFan]

@NS6677 What happen with MO?