Horus Explains The Warp To Garviel Loken

Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Additional Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio - released under CC-BY 4.0.

[@plasmakitten4261]

Love how Horus actually almost guessed what Emps was doing.

[@braddorcas9363]

Natural really. Horus was a keen intellect himself, and very involved with the on goings of the universe as a whole. He'd be able to rationalize the few things that could possibly be more important than the crusade that the Emperor could be putting his attention too. It could only be 1 of a very few things, if not the only thing possible. He obviously didn't know the scope of exactly of what he wanted to do with it, but knew the importance of the warp had to be the only thing.

[@Lordradost]

From the lore so far, it seems the Emperor didn't see that far ahead, ended up in it, as his foresight was limited but Chaos could see it.

[@colbymusic-lv8rw]

Makes the heresy even fuckin sadder, christ

[@myfaceismyshield5963]

​@@LordradostHorus wasn't yet corrupted by Chaos at this point... at all. But Lorgar was and had already seen the future by this point through Chaos and the prophet daemon prince Ingethel. Lorgar had already seen the Siege of Terra and even the 40k era Imperium where the Imperials worship the Emperor as God. Lorgar was shown a lot of the future before the Heresy even started... even the aftermath of the Burning of Prospero.

[@Lordradost]

@@myfaceismyshield5963 I know, but I mean in the book this passage is from, Loken is shocked from the possession by the demon Samus on 63-19. Horus downplays it as much as he can and in doing so shares with the reader his (limited) views on the warp as the Emperor imparted understanding. Throughout the book Horus reaffirms his views on the material universe and denial of the emperian. Later, on Davin with Horus' dream vision in the Delphos, Erebus in the guise of Sejanus uses the "The Emperor is working on Grand Warp Tech" line to convince Horus he is seeking Godhood. Now, the Emperor is limited in prescience and foresight, compared to Sanguinius for instance (also see "Master of Mankind), and is working on the Webway project. Chaos can see multiple futures more clearly and have the means to plan and influence preferred outcomes across millennia. In the end, the Emperor was at a loss when the Webway project collapsed. He was then mortally wounded. Only after was he interred on the Golden Throne. The Emperial cult becomes the standard. Only after that do we elude to his Godhood.

[@johithestar414]

The most sad thing about warhammer to me is that Horus was genuinely a very nice and good guy...before the incident

[@Significantharrassment]

He was not, he was an ass that managed to hide his dumpy trumpy really well

[@ShadowFri3nd]

Motherfucking Erebus man...

[@Startbreak12]

That's supposed to be part of the point, he's a more interesting character BECAUSE he fell. My High-School english teacher taught me that "The essence of drama, is conflict. No conflict, no drama. No drama, no plot. No plot, no story." The tragedy of Horus's fall is the keystone drama of the Heracy's conflict. (More or less)

[@Mkrause762]

@@Startbreak12yeah that’s why I think bringing Horus back would be a terrible idea basically no matter how they would do it

[@mariusconstantin6057]

​@@Mkrause762even as a ghost?

[@Its_Cannon]

Just a reminder: Fuck Erebus.

[@kahunab7400]

He did nothing wrong!

[@leek.3671]

Fuck Erebus, all my homies hate Erebus!!

[@gregdaweson4657]

He did kill that one lady.

[@satsuisama98]

If I have a bolter with 2 bullets while stuck in a room with Erebus and Lorgar, I would Shoot Erebus Twice

[@talldrinkofmarmalade7281]

@@satsuisama98 I'd shoot Lorgar twice. And then beat Erebus to death with the bolter

[@spartastic4]

Such a nice and understanding guy. Man I hope that Horus is able to help Big E achieve his dream of helping Humanity thrive accorss the stars.

[@mongsenlongchar8547]

Fr manh

[@krekkaking]

Although that erebos guy needs to be sanctioned multiple times

[@HardbassSoviet]

Until he doesn’t…

[@mongsenlongchar8547]

@@HardbassSoviet bro can't be yea look at his determination to serve big E

[@keylox1]

Not if Lorgar has something to say about it

[@Aravaganthus]

"Don't worry Garvi, just because the Emperor didn't trust me on one thing despite leaving me in charge of the literal entire Milky Way galaxy except Sol it doesn't mean I'll lose my shit out of my own baseless insecurities and virus bomb the fuck out of you" "... Oddly specific, my Primarch"

[@lowbridge4080]

Meanwhile Angron towards his sons: You do realize I basically hate all of you instead of Kharn, right?

[@nikolakhizanishvili1332]

Don’t blame Horus blame lorgar or was it erebus fuck it blame the two of them also fuck magnus he did nothing wrong he had to do nothing and he did it wrong

[@eggos5074]

honey conquering the galaxy isn't enough to do and dad is working in the garage and won't tell me what he's building. Horus needed a Mom to say "get you ass back to work and stop worrying about what dad's doing." Just think two parents and this could all been avoided.

[@moonshadow1795]

​@@eggos5074 LMFAO at this.

[@diomano.3341]

​@eggos5074 ehhh. Maybe? But even with 2 parents, Horus would question everything. Especially the removal of the 2 Primarchs from history.

[@cerberus8059]

Also fuck, this conversation must have haunted Gavriel Loken

[@skullsquad900]

Yeah, thanks for putting the Universe on my shoulders, Dad

[@tr3v3n96]

Well... "what if he fails" - "HE WON'T" (He did failed, well Magnus help failing) "what if we fail" - "WE WON'T" (YEAHH... they all failed, Imp would forever be broken, with an never ending Chaos) That surely broke Loken

[@Venthe]

Narrator: They did in fact, fail.

[@VA_Nightshade]

That book made me like horus more than I thought I would. And that conversation did SO much.

[@duhass]

Thinking about them facing a demon spawn that used to be their brother without knowing what the EFF was happening at the time is chilling.

[@bernardbuan6629]

​@duhass dude, the first whiff of the Whisper Heads on 6319 was chilling af. Even the Vox interference, where Samus was mucking about. Horus Rising is the first book I read in Warhammer and it gave me an impression of "wow, so not everything is bolt porn, this shit has some spooky shit going around"

[@bigmonkeking9067]

Man, hearing Horus talk to his son shows how much he truly cared for his legion. Shows what type of guy he was before Erebus fucked everything up.

[@MelendezSama]

Even after being corrupted he still didn't kill anyone from his legion

[@basketcase77]

Obligatory fuck Erebus

[@gu8647]

@@MelendezSamaIstvann 3?

[@Azorees-oj5zr]

⁠​⁠@@MelendezSamauhhhhh (stares at Istvann 3)

[@MelendezSama]

@@gu8647 I apologize, I should've phrased this way: Horus has not killed any loyal (to him) space marine kzbin.info/www/bejne/mF7EhXt3lNhnaJIsi=psHbR06u9bXjDupb

[@TabukiJones]

Man, this Horus guy sounds like a really compassionate and supportive guy. Never change my guy ✊🏿

[@XNitrous]

“Dad said I was in charge because the space clouds were talking to him.” Horus Lupercal, in a discussion with Garviel

[@colerobinson1422]

I'll be honest I didn't really care too much about Horus at first because I knew what he was going to turn into but these videos have made me feel really bad for him he was actually a legit nice guy

[@zeropokewarrior1]

When i read the books it hurt so much, i knew how it would end but i had faith that maybe it wont be like that

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

Same for Fulgrim.

[@TheCirclekeeper]

So like Horus couldn't wait 5 minutes for the Emperor to figure out the secrets of the warp before going all crazy.

[@ethatsgoodwine5888]

I mean… it was closer to a hundred years

[@KamdenTurner]

It wasnt his fault. It was Erebus'

[@thequestbro]

He was tricked my dude. He thought the emperor was setting himself up to be a God.

[@ethanmitchell7479]

God dude 30k was so hopeful and optimistic shit even Perty and Big E meeting for the first time had this grand sense of beauty and understanding to then become what we now know it as What a tragedy…

[@Solomon-mv4xf]

Damn Erebus fucking everything up

[@Kohl293]

“What if we fail.” “We won’t.” OUCH THAT HURT

[@herrdoctor2895]

When I'm in a most hated person tournament and Erebus walks in (I hate the guy so much)

[@ferjusto]

Man... I like a lot the way Horus is portrayed... It trully explains why he was Warmaster.

[@mwrr1922]

Currently listening to the audiobooks and its such a beautiful and heart wrenching story

[@marqofthedwyne]

Erebus is cooking something oddly sinister.

[@slayeroffurries1115]

Horus was the GOAT, once

[@KazimiraPR]

Horus was expendable. The great plan continues.

[@ashurad_fox5991]

​@@KazimiraPRexpendable? Nah, even Big E didn't want to kill Horus. Even now, Big E is biding his time to Redeem all the traitor Primarchs. II and XI though...

[@KazimiraPR]

@@ashurad_fox5991 I mean in the chess game with Malcador it looked like the heresy was planned and horus was always supposed to fall. As for the two lost primarchs... i have no trust they will be anything but abominations.

[@leovalenzuela8368]

@@KazimiraPRthe heresy was not so much planned as it was post-hoc rationalized away. Like that person who always says “I meant to do that” after even the most catastrophic of blunders. After all, do you know the Enperor to be the kinda guy to show humility?

[@somethinglikethat2176]

​@@leovalenzuela8368 there's a part in The Great Work where Big E is describing his ability to see the future. Its been a while since I read it but he talks about how sometimes it's as clear as day, other times it's foggy. It think one issue is that you can look into the future, see a course of action to take, however others can do the same and that can change the outcome that your new course of action.

[@OSTemli]

People forget that Horus was stab by an ancient weapon and needed chaos help which corrupted him

[@shadowki5687]

Honestly the primarchs' and the emperor's relationship feels like a Nod to Frankenstein's monster and Dr. Frankenstein respectively

[@somethinglikethat2176]

That’s perfect.

[@ambion19]

Big brain take over here, excellent

[@akmalhafiz8763]

Thanks to Erebus, everything goes down the warp drain.

[@possumlovr42069]

Ah you're finally awake father! You really took a nice blow to the head in the last battle. What? Horus Heresy? Golden Throne? Guilliman did what with an Eldar??? That's quite a dream. Dear father you know chaos cannot lead me off the path you have set for me. Come, Sanguinius awaits you on the command deck. - If Erebus never existed

[@Aureonw]

Lowkey, even if the Changeling decided to work overtime to deal with the vacuum that would be left if Erebus left he still wouldn't manage, Erebus is the greatest non primarch, hell, non warp being that contributed the most to the heresy even occuring to begin with, yet despite all that just goes to show how bad Erebus is not even the chaos gods like him even through he's the cause of their win 😂

[@_A.d.G_]

That's why the Emperor secretly sent Legions 2 and 11 in the Webway.

[@meiforgot]

11th under ground in lichtenstein about 100 miles northwest of mt.sion Switzerland and 2nd legion providing surface support while we take down the epsteins cannibilistic underground world in 2030 (underground time zone is is 6 years back in 2024 they b.s. their plague down here on actual year )

[@LoFi_Sinner95]

Narrator: " All of them did indeed fail.."

[@cerberus8059]

Love your shorts, guys!

[@Meme-Republic]

As Kor Phaeron said. He stinks of Pride even though hides it like down to the terra. Ambitious to know the Webway Portal

[@mariusconstantin6057]

The emperor or Horus? You meant both didn't you

[@somethinglikethat2176]

​@@mariusconstantin6057 like father, like son I guess.

[@mariusconstantin6057]

@@somethinglikethat2176 so I wasn't wrong then. I mean I fust found out the entities within the Warp cab also feed on base instincts, so no way his plan would have worked. Also the Imperium was going to fail sooner or later woth or wothout the Emperor or the Primarchs

[@Graypaws]

Garviel was my favorite character, him and Torgaddon.

[@12coudak000]

" I wonder, should I tell my trusted generals about the millenia old eldritchian entities that i stole from so they dont get a chance for a revenge, or punish them if they find out about them?" - The smartest Emperor of Mankind

[@somethinglikethat2176]

Guilliman definitely got his common sense from his adopted parents.

[@KevVIII]

Man... to think it took an entire four chaos gods and a freaking alien sword of chaotic origins to bring this chad down should say something. ... and all it would have taken to undermind all that effort by the Warp was for Papa E to say "I love you, son, and here is what I am planning on doing."

[@solortus]

The guy who betrayed the emperor wasn't Horus anymore. He died on Davin and what was brought back was just a shadow. Even a part of Horus' soul is still in the warp. As soon as the chaos taint left Horus he realized what he's done and repented

[@rho-9operativegamma995]

Is it me or does Horus kinda look like bald Giga Chad?

[@dingdingding2166]

I mean primarch means gigachad so

[@dylanpiazza6358]

And buff homer simpson

[@undercovertakodachi4301]

I love how Horus is actually Could have been the BEST chill dude of The Imperium. But no, It had to be the other way.

[@diomano.3341]

Big E knew what balding would do to Horus.

[@astroboy6515]

I just read the horus rising trilogy! Happy to see you do videos about it!

[@Sammidonut]

Wow! Hope it all works out for this father and son duo

[@treznorify]

"Hey Horus, I'm about to work on some science project to replace the warp by another safer means of space travel, btw beware of those word bearers they seem kinda upset after Monarchia"' Heresy solved

[@domschra]

Videos like these make me wanna grind erebus & khor phaeron into a fine red paste

[@bobtehdinosaur]

Boy, Horus really seems like a good guy. I sure hope nothing terrible happens to him....

[@jackmyklusch-hc2er]

The Big E was kinda a jerk to his sons when you think of it.

[@Soul_404.]

“Kinda”??

[@blimpnerd2190]

I think Angron would heavily disagree with "Kinda"

[@guyver441]

​@@blimpnerd2190 and Mortarion.

[@dylanpiazza6358]

Not kind of lol he brought most of his problems on himself

[@a1z158]

The two people responsible for the heresy were Emps and Erebus

[@fenol8957]

I swear everytime i hear anything eith emps on it all i can think is that scene of hercules with hades screaming they were so close

[@meiforgot]

I'm on it

[@Bajicoy]

If only the emperor hugged his kids like once a century

[@meiforgot]

,,!,

[@dalton5160]

The emperor was tight to not tell anyone about the webway project. The goal was to make warp travel obsolete by conquering the webway. The navigator houses were very influential and the emperor needed them until he could finish the project. If they learned what he was doing they could revolt, and that would halt the grest crusade and his project.

[@notoriousbigmoai1125]

Tears ran through the cheeks of every hardcore 40k fans when they heard this.

[@paulquinlan354]

I only recently started reading Horus Rising and just finished that chapter less than an hour ago. Funny how that happens

[@dycotomaskey9258]

This short made it click for me, some space marines understood it. The imperium isnt for the primarchs, it was for mankind, and some primarchs felt like they deserved something they were never meant to have. That was the emperor's business they were never a part of, because they don't understand what it is to be human

[@SasukeStand]

That "Not even me" part gave me chills. Honestly had me tear up because I know what is going to happen in the future.

[@GardensAndGames]

Proof that Jaghatai being so secretive runs in the family.

[@Interrobang212]

It's not just hurt Horus is projecting, but also jealousy and entitlement. Pride. He hides it very well, even to himself. But his fall was not pure coincidence. He was ripe for the picking.

[@djcokeisnotreal9810]

Ever since i got into Warhammer recently a learning about some of the lore it always makes me sad seeing horus before the heresy and how good of a person he was. Warhammer really can make you sad with the tragedy of it all

[@awfulshmuck320]

Imagine a timeline where he didn’t get that funky knife in him

[@jackstrayfeald1007]

I fell in love with Horus's character before he fell, such a genuinely kind, generous and noble soul, it only makes his chaotic corruption even more tragic. As to quote Rogal Dorn "I am now sad"

[@AxleDoomrod]

He did. They did.

[@mobiusZero2]

Damn that last one Echoes differently

[@whiteshadow1189]

Horus after the 3rd “we won’t” - “hold my beer”

[@missengoula-ezeemmanuel867]

Plot twist : The Emperor went back to Terra in order to just take some holidays.

[@ambion19]

Unironically, telling (and convincing) Horus this would have been enough. The desperate to please son being told he's big enough and entrusted enough to hold the galaxy while dad has a rest would have satisfied his anxiety

[@Graymon44]

I love when sanguinius threw an apple at horus lol

[@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668]

He speaks just like a father to Loken, that's adorable

[@halolegend-ul8qg]

This actually makes me cry It's so sad

[@Warlord62101]

Pre hérésie horus is incredible

[@avinash02aug]

Makes me cry seeing him say all this... considering what ended up happening to him regarding the warp

[@Azeral.]

"You either die as a hero.... or live long enough to see yourself as the villain"

[@humamon2211]

He may have hurted back then. But I hurt now seeing him in white armor and rooting for the emperor

[@Deadmemerz]

Every time I see or hear anything about pre-heresy Horus, I constantly think “Fuck Erebus.”

[@fuiparanyu]

We wont - Famous last word

[@bwolfeman]

He actually sounded like a reasonable person at one point

[@Gimpy1900]

Any time i hear about horus befor the heresy, the wound in my chest deepens

[@szymekszwa1285]

And then he failed miserably and some more

[@AmazingAutist]

Yeah the emperor really fucked it up

[@AmazingAutist]

Yeah, the emperor really fucked it up.

[@AmazingAutist]

Yeah, the emperor really fucked it up.

[@MrRawrCEO]

I mean...Erebus shoved his ass into the warp and he had 4 big guys doing...STUFF...to him for an untold amount of time. It would have been a damn miracle if he'd somehow stayed loyal. Not all traitors had the same excuse of being mindbroken by the undivided attention of the 4 most powerful entities in the warp.

[@Louis1945.]

Horus was the best of us

[@centeringcube]

"He wont fail and we wont fail" boy did that go wrong

[@AstraGaming-is1gd]

I don't know much about Warhammer but Hours is a gigachad.

[@silvershades6689]

Honestly, I just want to see the Hope-Light version of 40k, even if only in like a brief vision one of the characters could have. Horus staying the standup guy he always was at heart, the legions gradually standing down and becoming the scholars and artists some of them wanted to be.

[@alvarking1689]

Actually Magnus knew the plan if I remenber

[@nikik5567]

For reference this is after they had encountered a daemon possessing on the Luna wolves during a compliance. Horus knew of creatures residing in the warp, but not to what extent they really were or that they could hurt humanity outside of the warp.

[@hushgamer92]

Ah... This aged beautifully 😅

[@flamingwolf8753]

Hey I just got finished reading that conversation like an hour ago

[@shadow69c]

The irony of how close to right he actually was hurts.

[@deathsaurus6699]

They did, and he did.

[@wolfmanhcc]

Lets leave our highest ranked in the same shadow as the lowest.

[@ktjohnson1431]

“WE won’t, yet.”😂

[@brutalwave3800]

So funny because Horus was the Emperor’s favorite yet told him nothing and then there’s Corvus who Big E just gives all his knowledge of the warp too

[@dinkules]

Horus should have just stayed chill.

[@CokefishR]

Erebus tried to convince Horus that the secret project was the Emperor's apotheosis, which would result in the culling of the resultingly-useless primarchs. Whether or not Horus was convinced of that, he still saw a future where he was thrown into the cobwebbed corner. The idea of which, he could not allow.

[@kira68200]

Horus is just like Lucifer, he falled because of his pride and arrogance, which is a shame because neither of the two was ill-intentionned from the get go

[@AmazingAutist]

He fell because he was stabbed in the chest by a supernatural knife that infected him with chaos goo-goo juice. Lucifer demanded equal rights and didn't want to be subjugated to basically the little siblings and be eternal babysitters.

[@AmazingAutist]

Horus fell because he was stabbed with knife and was infected with chaos goo-goo juice. Lucifer wanted equal rights come on didn't want to be subservient to the newest creation and be basically glorified babysitters for all eternity. Both of the abrahamic deity and the Emperor of mankind fucked up by viewing his Creations as tools instead of people that desire love and has a will

[@AmazingAutist]

Horus fell because he was stabbed with knife and was infected with chaos goo-goo juice. Lucifer wanted equal rights come on didn't want to be subservient to the newest creation and be basically glorified babysitters for all eternity. Both of the abrahamic deity and the Emperor of mankind fucked up by viewing his Creations as tools instead of people that desire love and has a will

[@TheDragonKnight98]

​@@AmazingAutist Equal rights? Lucifer? Are you for real?

[@kira68200]

@@AmazingAutist except the "chaos infection" used the darkness in his soul as base to fester Lucifer had doubts, was arrogant and prideful, which helped chaos to make him fall you can talk shit about Lucifer, honestly it's fair, but never forget that if the Bible is true, we have free will, knowledge of what is good and what is evil, and the capacity to choose to do good or evil things because of him, because he make Eve and Adam to eat the apple/pomegranate, without his actions, what would have we be ? not humans I tell you that so yeah it was to prove a point, that humans were inferior, but still, we are what we are because he did what he did

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Funny how much is revealed here. Horus cracks open the door to how little his father trusts him in certain theaters. He shared more with many sons, Horus was chosen as a practicality, not because he was the best, just the most in need of recognition.

[@wmc4920]

this is after Xavier Jubal died in by Samus possession in the whisperhead mountain in 6319 😢

[@ashurad_fox5991]

Then along came Erebus.

[@romanchavez5408]

I think big E knew the whole outcome of Horus. That’s why he gave him title Warmaster . All is yet to be revealed in his grand plan. He may have told a custod he didn’t know what to do but he did say he saw the outcome and took the throne as punishment. 😊

[@Elthenar]

What the Emperor didn't know, what he couldn't know, is that Horus' last name was Heresy

[@thebrawlinghunter1899]

Lore like this is why we can't let tourists take over.

[@1986DarkStalker]

Imagine using a hammer to set a nail, and then the hammer goes to cry to a toolbox about how evil you are.

[@moodyowlproductions4287]

Garveil"what if he fail" Horus"he won't" Garveil"what if you fail" Horus"i won't" Garveil"what if that guy over there in the background fail" Hours"errr... probably"

[@perturabo6231]

He wont, we wont....i love the early horus

[@jirkahoplicek591]

The Tragedy of Horus Lupercal is the greatest tragedy in the entere Warhammer 40k.

[@martincastillo6743]

When I finished reading Horus Rising, I couldn't blame the traitor Astartes, I would've followed Horus to hell and back, the charisma he exhales in that book is just perfect.

[@adamk.2336]

Never made sense to me that the primarchs would compare themselves to Jimmy. Not only did he create them, but he's greater than they are despite no evidence that he himself was created. Unless he was.

[@MineTurtleLover565]

Taking this into account its obvious why Horus once finding out about the truth of the warp made such a leap to beleive the Emperor wanted all the power. Not removing Humanitys reliance on the warp

[@saucemandela]

After actually reading the Heresy novels, the few glimpses we get of Horus being an amazing leader is what makes it such a narrative masterpiece. We all know he’s going to fall, but we can’t help but hope that something changes. I pray GW never brings back Horus, his fall truly makes 40k grimdark.