Horus Heresy: This Rite of War is BROKEN and why it doesn’t matter

[@jamesgarrett1300]

Salamanders would also be a good candidate for this Rite of War. -1 to wound to the weapons that can really hurt Dreads. and built in Will Not Die (6).

[@matthewhelm1952]

You can also master craft 1 weapon too

[@shewhothirsts5632]

Not going to lie, the RoW looks really bloody cool and I would love to do it at some point, but I'd 100% bring another army with me if it's against someone randomly and if it's arranged, I'd ask permission first. Honestly that's something I've missed with 40k recently, that sense of common decency and making sure that your opponent is having as much fun as you are.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Definitely! For games with lads, a simple heads up so they can adjust for it is just fine.

[@c0ldsh0w3r]

I had a guy bring a redemptor dread to a combat patrol because it was "so bs and broken." He thought it was hilarious.

[@shewhothirsts5632]

@@c0ldsh0w3r how about the beginning of a crusade that we were told to be fair, someone brings a bloody riptide.

[@stevenschnepp576]

@@c0ldsh0w3r Our other local Ultramarines player started doing that. Other players started copying him. For a while, everyone was playing pretty much the same list. It was... not exciting.

[@endlesswaffles6504]

What's the difference between a contemptor and a flare shielded spartan? A contemptor survives 16 lascannons on average. Also, it takes 324 boltgun shots to kill a contemptor on average.

[@edensmith2331]

Sorry if it has already been said, but the rule is on page 147 it says multiples are done before any additions. So the sons of Horus would be applied after the multiplier of a weapon

[@joahnaut]

I love this list sheerly from the modelling side. Each Dread is like its own little character with their quirks and personality which can be in stunning detail.

[@MyNameIsntReallyNate]

It's also a lot less models for some people to pop together. For some reason this is kind of reminding me of Ogres from AOS/Fantasy.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Imagine a really cool Siege of Terra Death Guard FotA army, each dread its own uniquely mutated monster?? 🥰

[@fareastwargaming]

Contemptors have had the much needed boost they needed IMO. Fury of the Ancients is something we'll be seeing on the table more often. I view them as tankier versions of Terminator squads. I totally agree with your reasoning about why it doesn't matter. The Heresy Community is more self policing than any other GW game system, it doesn't promote the WAAC style. Narrative gaming for the WIN!

[@endlesswaffles6504]

Personally, I feel like FOTA is an auto win unless you let your opponent bring an extra 1k points. I wouldn't play it since I already know the outcome.

[@jonadamson1201]

Thought - if you take the Techmarine covenant for repairing, they cannot join the Dreads in a unit, leaving them stood out and targetable, so tactical squads would be a good cheap way to keep them out of harms way - the added Line is a bonus. A cheap 10 man no upgrade squad just advancing up behind or next to the dreads with the tech keeping in range to repair.

[@sylviewilson4137]

I absolutely love dreadnoughts, they're my favourite models to collect, paint and play with, and i have an absolute boatload of them. I don't try to think in terms of absolute efficiency and numbers and winning all the time, because i know i will fall into that hard, and its no fun constantly revising every little thing when it doesn't perform as well as it should statiscically. I probably will shelve most of my dreadnoughts for this edition knowing that fury of the ancients is likely to get my car keyed afterwards hahaha. Oh well, maybe i'll pull it out for fun games where me and my opponent agree on it, cause as you said, an all dreadnought army looks pretty nice on the table!

[@ottemzzz9700]

You know what mudcrab. The opponents that complain about it should stfu aye . More then likely 40k players. HH is fluff and best point of fluff is playing your own list and if that means a sexy af dread list then so be it , as it has been said build that list AND LET THE GALAXY BURN

[@combatwombat2134]

Don't worry about playing it, buddy, just have the foresight going in. If you're playing against people you can contact, let them know what your plan is. Let them adjust. If you're going to your LGS, take other units to make up another RoW or army to balance it out. You can still bring Dreads, there's just fewer of them. :) Don't feel the need to hamstring yourself, just don't play it as a power fantasy. 😂

[@JeffJedi]

The best way to deal with it us to plan ahead for both players and once in a while have a Dread bash on both sides.

[@MyNameIsntReallyNate]

If I showed my son this rule he would totally be into the heresy. He has a Redemptor adread every troops choice in 40k. Before Covid I was in a narritive crusade and we of course had "that one guy" that ended up making a few of the other players just walk away. Even after he had the coordinator tell him to stop being so "extra" it didn't help. I could see doing something extravagant like this in a controlled situation though with someone that was cool with it. Communication and knowing your opponents are huge things to keep in mind. It's not just "I need to know what to bring to counter" but also "dude... I got this stupid idea..." And honestly as people read and analyze the rules with this we're going to find a lot more "huhuhuh... That would be so effing cool" but everyone just needs to remember to choose who they try it with wisely.

[@albirieo]

I'd say Blood Angels are a unique considerations for their Contemptor-Incaedinus Dreadnoughts.

[@dimitrihenry5183]

Hum i was thinling salamanders could be a good way to go too with it. You have the -1 to wound and the iwnd 6+ With flammer option it's pretty fun ^^

[@tommothedog]

This is perfect for the Alpha Legion commander who wants to drive all his disguised dreadnoughts at his enemy.

[@taffeh]

18:40 onwards those guys playing at WHW look familiar...

[@GPFallaize]

I would love the challenge of trying to take one of these armies down with my wolves. Grey Slayer/stalker packs with power fists/axes, plasma support, auto cannons, lascannons and Terminators. I may lose but it would be interesting to see how many I would take down first

[@blackbriargaming5483]

For sure! Matches when you know it's coming would be a bunch of fun. But, and especially for beginners, the negative play experience when getting surprised by one of these lists may turn people away.

[@uberleech3096]

Love the content but is there any chance on a video coming up that could be tips and tricks for new players/returning for the new heresy ?

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Yeah I'm planning a whole "How to Play" series, starting with Army building, Game set up, Different Phases, etc. Is this what we're talking about here?? :D

[@uberleech3096]

@@blackbriargaming5483 Yep thats exactly what i mean! Im very keen for this series

[@joshuagannon6566]

Getting into HH and I have to say, this might be my favorite RoW. Dummy Dread Army has been one of my favorite gimmicks since I started 40K running Blood Angels with Librarian Dreads, Furiosos, ect. This is like that, only competitive! But I do agree with the balancing it out a bit. Since HH Contemptors are better than most 40K dreads, it'd only be fair to bring say 2-4 units of Tactical Marines so the opponent has some meat shields to interact with, at least.

[@captjingles8689]

I’m building on for salamanders. It’s not my main force, and mostly for the conversions. I’ll reserve my 6 comtemptors and 2 leviathans for larger apoc days. Great video

[@nurseclaire5252]

I believe the multiplier happens first then any addition or subtraction but I don't know the son's of horus rule specifically

[@kusanagi54321]

Another boon for the Alpha Legion is you can borrow stuff like a Mara Gal. I feel that dropping 2 wounds from all dreads would be a good balance. They would still be tough but not unkillable. For a counter unit, 5 landspeeder proteus with double melta or plasma. It’s expensive 400-500 points but is fast enough to get stay out of melee and shooty enough to drop (with help) a dread a turn, possibly 2 with counter fire. It’s also tough enough that they can’t instant death them back with shooting.

[@icholi88]

Head hunters with combi melta or recon squads can take melta bombs at up to 10 for 25 points, remember that armor bane gets to rerolled falled wounds against automata and dreads. Considering I dont even need to tailor to kill them because S8 AP1 Armorbane on a psudo-sniper unit is already good... I'll do just fine.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Yeah head hunters with combi weapons get pretty wild, I'm thinking about combi-plasma for mine, precision plasma shots to take out Praetors?! Yes please.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Another concern is that they are essentially immune to leadership-based tactics (overrun) or challenges (by a fighty character imbedded in your unit to protect the others). I feel the problem comes from how under-costed dreadnoughts are. The combination of high T AND high armour save means there is little they need to worry about.

[@Lord-Supreme_Branden]

I think the application of dreadnought spam with other rites of war could be even scarier. The dread wing RoW could make most of the map difficult with sections dangerous terrain. Along with the auto passes on dangerous making life harder on the enemy especially melee Focus armies. The sons of horus long march gives you + 1 movement and terminator for troops to open up more Elites slots. With the price of the praetor being saved with not having to buy the Warlord upgrade for the dreadnought and the forced consul paths.

[@sarli2166]

I'm curious how many contemptors people feel are too many, at say 3k. I don't think I want too, it limits other things I want to do too much. But I was considering a themed army around Nuceria of the librarians and Lhorke who all died trying to stop angron from ascending. Would the venerable ancient + two one dread talons be okay? How many could somebody add before you started to get put off when you saw it?

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I think 3 Dreads in 3000pt is perfectly fine! 6 Dreads is just flying under the radar... 9 Dreads and you're dead to me :P

[@jtrain9926]

I play IW, with Tyrant of Lyssastra your WL contempor can fire 6 Lascannon shots a turn, effective S10, but admittedly with gets hot. This RoW also lets you take a Forgelord to lead a unit of Iron Circle, which are a pretty good counter to contemptors.

[@vulkansbanhammer4600]

what about salamanders -1 to wound for all the anti-dreadnought weapons?

[@Cypher_The_1st_Fallen]

Finally, my 10 contemptors can be used in a single game. At least once. Want to see them all stomping around.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I mean, you've definitely got to do it at least once!

[@rjlarose5271]

I like the old version of this RoW better because you got to use the classic box dreads. But this one isn't to bad.

[@mattjohnson2090]

I'm a TO, and I would love to get a link or more information about this sandbox/casual tournament concept. We suddenly have a solid number of HH players, many new to it, some even new to GW as a whole, so an open tournament sounds perfect to kick things off. Any information would be appreciated.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

So after Part 3 of the unaligned RoW I'm going to do a video on the factors that make for a good narrative based Heresy campaign/tournament, using examples of ones I've been in, and the one we've got planned for August here in Canberra (Australia). Watch this space!

[@mattjohnson2090]

@@blackbriargaming5483 sounds great!

[@BrooksSligh]

I think you're on to something with Alpha Legion Fury of the Ancients. I was considering it the other day and while there isn't much that directly buffs dreads they count as 2" further away for melta purposes, they can steal the BA unique dread & all three Warlord Traits work. Master of Lies let's you move stuff around, Hydran Excursor boosts to hit & Mobius Config lets you stick all of your infantry into a detachment that you want to sacrifice. Makes me feel a bit gross considering a Fury of the Mobius Config list.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Right. Just feels dirty!

[@blairbird8022]

I wrote up a list for this that's the HQ Dread, 2x2 Troop Dreads, 2 Mortificators, a Techmarine, and 3 Leviathans in Pods. Think I settled on Iron Warriors for the legion, because that's what I currently play, but the Sons of Horus with their legion trait and the Chosen by Dark Gods Warlord trait made the HQ dread really durable.

[@JD-mf9zm]

I ran this a few times in 1.5 really like that you no longer have to take the charicters, and a Venerable contempt or sounds nuts. So may ask someone to play this in 2.0 letting them tailor list build. I used it for iron hands. Would like to try this with wordbearers adding my tainted dreads as elites.

[@treydudley7966]

Mechanized Ultramarines doing lascannon spam (transports trigger +1 to hit for heavy squads plus moveblocking the talons) can definitely handle 10-12 contemptors. Similarly, Death Guard doing lascannon spam with two movement reactions can really kite the dreadnoughts since they're unique reaction also involves a 7" move. Night Lords running (you guessed it) lascannons on a heavy support squad and their own dreadnoughts can keep Night Fighting in effect for most of the game while ignoring it themselves, letting them shower the contemptors with anti-armor firepower without reprisal. Lastly, grav spamming Iron Hands (fluffy!) will ruin an all dreadnought list by wounding on 2+ and lowering the whole unit's weapon skill. Edit: I also think the best army to do this with is Word Bearers. mhara gal are ridiculously good, but they compete with other dreads in the elite force org slot. Getting to slot contemptors as troops just so you can take more mhara gal is a power move in and of itself.

[@nightingale4632]

I was thinking of a night lords heavy armour list. The idea of giant murder machines unleashed in an unfair fight seems very them. What vehicle would you pair with this in the heavy support option? As I only get one nondreadnought i gotta think carefully xD

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Really depends what weapons you're putting on your giant murder machines and what gaps you need to fill. Do you need long range fire support while your dreadnoughts run up the table to get into assault ASAP? Some pie plates to handle big blobs of infantry that we'll no doubt see from Imperial Armies in the future? Maybe some anti-tank firepower to peel open transports for your dreadnoughts to charge into the fleshy contents?

[@nightingale4632]

@@blackbriargaming5483 i was thinking of having my dreds geared up for infantry ccw so I can do lots of gore and body horror conversions. Tanks probably going to be my anti tank i guess

[@nightingale4632]

I think the -1 goes before powerfist. If they had a +1 strength buff it would be before the powerfist so the negative should be the same.

[@MightyMoriar]

Pemdas. Its the same as furious charge double then add or subtract

[@MediSquidGaming]

I was worried I was a sociopath for a second there. I wanted to run a 2 contemptor and 1 leviathan sons of horus list because, well... I like big robots. I was worried that was too much, I had no clue they could hit numbers that high with FotA rite of war.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Ha ha, three dreads is just fine. 12 is when my eyebrows start to raise :P

[@Appolyon]

13:54 - Fury of the Ancient pushing for Night Fighting against IW? Not a good idea in my Opinion. All shooty infantry units of the IW WILL have Augury Scanner and can ignore the 24" limitation. The Dreadnoughts on the other hand don't have such equipment, so either you have at least one vehicle with Search Lights, or you will have very limited options for your targets while the IW can chose freely.

[@knoxminis1211]

I just started building Alpha Legion, and I love dreadnoughts. Since the two AL RoWs already don't focus on vehicles, I'm seriously thinking of building this RoW out. Just wondering how many dreadnoughts this will actually require, lol

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Remember that Dreadnoughts aren't vehicles in this edition!

[@_lewtz]

Any chance you have a link or two, to past event structures you mentioned in the open play narrative? Looking to build some local events and this sounds like the way to go. As always, great video!

[@SonoVAo]

About modifiers with its interaction with power fists, the multiplication happens first, then the -1 so only S7.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Thanks for that! I assumed that's how it worked but great to have it clarified. Still savage for marines trying to fight dreadnoughts in close combat!!

[@BrandonL337]

Man, the contemptor is such a great kit already that I was already planning on buying two of the solo kits to make a full talon (probably also gonna make a full reason of leviathans too tbh) 12 of them is a wild idea. I think I might prefer the ROW if it didn't limit taking non-dreads in the fast attack and heavy support slots. Let you have line contemptors, but tanks and bikes and stuff for support

[@azir64]

can't magine this in Iron hands. With the -1 strenght vs all non-vehicles.... and their better forgelords :s Btw is there no restriction like the 'rule of 3", like in 40K? In 40k strenght and other stats is calculated like this -> base, then x2 then + or 1. So S4 with a +2 on a x2 weapon would be S10, nog S12

[@Nilmur2]

your confusing post 8th edition rules with pre rules, the core rules for horus heresy is like a mash of 5th and 7th and the only thing that was inspired by 8th is reactions which is a toned down stratagem system. Rule of 3 not a thing. to wound chart is using pre 8th wound chart, and S modifiers work different depending on how they are applied, weapons are applied after all other modiefiers if I read this correctly. Edit: my reading oy modifiers were wrong, they are still Division/Multipy, +/- then absolutes. Don't know where Iread the bit about wargear if at all.

[@azir64]

@@Nilmur2 Thank you for the clarification and feedback

[@corbinfraley7922]

What about castafaeran?

[@ashlevrier]

so after looking at it. i think dreads are weak to plasma. 4+ breaching means that almost 100% of the time it will only be using a 5+ invul save. 24 inch range means you dont need to get in charge range of it.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Ok. Let's do the maths. Let's say you've got a full squad of 10 Tactical Support Marines with Plasma Guns. At 24 inches (or anything more than 12 inches) they get 10 shots. We'll assume that nightfighting isn't on, but keep in mind that it probably will be. They hit 7 times (slightly above average). They wound 4 times (once again above average...), 2 wounds of which are AP2, 2 of which are AP4. If you're LUCKY, this gets through 2 wounds, which is definitely above average. If your opponent happen to run Iron Hands or Salamanders, you're doing even less damage. Also, you've potentially killed one of your Marines in the meantime. So yeah. I think 'weak' might be an over estimation here. Now at 12 inches and less you're doing more damage, but don't forget reactions are a thing.

[@ashlevrier]

@@blackbriargaming5483 plasma guns are 4+ breach so every time they wound they are AP2 and you need a 4+ to wound a dread.

[@ashlevrier]

@@blackbriargaming5483 that makes dreads a 5+ save.

[@ashlevrier]

@@blackbriargaming5483 augury scanner ignors night fight penaltys.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@ashlevrier ha ha, so true, my mind went blank there. Sorry! Scanners only remove 24" penalty not the -1 to hit unfortunately.

[@krzysztofzacharjasz8469]

My favourite idea to use this Rite of War is to take 2 dreadnoughts make one of them your warlord and make him into Rylanor the rest of the army i would take as tacticals and fire support maybe also one terminator squad

[@blackbriargaming5483]

LOVE this! There are certainly great uses for this RoW. 12 Dreads ain't it 😅

[@errata2412]

Sallies seem to have super good dreads

[@blairgray5234]

GW: hey folks have you seen our new plastic Contemptor and leviathan kits super cool huh and look at what they can do now, better buy 12 GW 3 months later: oops us again sorry we messed up here’s an FAQ, shame you can’t use all of those dreadnoughts anymore but still have you checked out our new predator kit…

[@DJRaffa1000]

I dont know all the consequences of it, but at tournaments they could just A) limit the unit size of the compulsory dreadnaughts or B) remove the line subtype from it in some form. Thats if this is going to be a problem in the first place

[@blackbriargaming5483]

I think all you need to do is say "this is a casual event, please bring lists that you'd want to play against" and you're good to go in a positive way! If that doesn't work... yeah... "No more than six models with the Dreadnought type in an army". Doesn't seem unreasonable :P

[@marcmiddleton2277]

I really want to build a version of this because I love Dreadnoughts

[@blackbriargaming5483]

You do you mate! But remember that you can still have infantry in a FotA army! :D

[@marcmiddleton2277]

@@blackbriargaming5483 yea why I said version, I looked at this the night before I say your video

[@dwhisper79]

I'm planning on building this for my Blood Angels legion at some point. The Inceledous Dreadnought makes this even more bonkers, given it's jump pack bonkers nature. It's strictly for fun, though. Don't honestly intend to do it as a regular thing.

[@profsrlojohn635]

I was already working on one of these before 2.0, and honestly the new RoW spurred me on, primarily due to the Anchient. Whom I have affectionately termed the "king of the dreadnoughts". I do however plan to mix in a decent bit of grunts and marines however. Background is: they're a semi-rouge chapter within the WE. The Dread King is the result of an attempt to make a mass-psychosis generator in a dreadnought, which could cause an even greater blood-rage to those around it. Instead, it created mass delusions, which caused it to crown itself the Emperor of the new Imperium of Death. These mass delusions also influenced those around him to believe in his vision, with WE of various stripes following him into battle. They still work with the mainline WE, but are are particularly insubordinate, and thus operate more as a roving band than anything else. My hope is to minimize the broken-ness of FotA by mixing in more regular marines, and by using WE as opposed to anyone else.

[@travisvance619]

night fighting and helical targeting array on dreadnoughts is OP

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Not really sure why? Helical Targeting Array doesn't ignore night fighting as far as I can tell? And there don't seem to be options for give Contemptor Dreadnoughts night vision. Except for Night Lords? Night Lords Contemptors OP? Lol. Specific. I'll let them have it.

[@jaworski105]

Flashburn shell goes BOOM

[@Crushanator1]

Alpharius, a Venerable Dreadnought, and 3 infiltrating or DSing Talons of Dreadnoughts

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Lol. Right? Yuk...

[@bryanscott8528]

Don't forget blood angels, deep striking multiple incandeus class dreds, so buster

[@ValhallanMelta]

The Alpha Legion list is interesting but don't forget you can also Infiltrate those dreadnought talons if you don't want to deep strike them.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

What do we think the verdict is? Deep striking or infiltrating being better? My issue with Infiltrate is that the opponent will always get at least one turn to shoot at you before you can charge on in.

[@MrClassicor]

This looks like something fun to try with my Dark Angels. You could build an entire narrative scenario around it, give the opponent twice as many points for example. The desperate but awesome last stand /final effort the Dreadwing would use, perhaps? Also, for anyone who has watched Angels of Death, there is an awesome Dreadnought fight that would work on a larger scale like this as well I think. Not something for *every* game (also, screw tournaments 😋 ), but I think I will set something up for this.

[@jw7500]

Yeah, this is a bit silly, but there are few other broken rites. Sagyar Mazan for instance. Tldr: play a full infantry army with a 5+++ and that doesn't give up any kill points.

[@Cruxmajor]

I don't know, I don't see this army to be much of a problem. You spend half the video talking about not playing such army, but fail to mention that while dreads are resilient, they are also slow, incredibly inefficient when comes to damage per point they inflict(one of the worst), they are awful into mass infantry, on Objective Games you simply have to kill off scoring dreads - which is 6 maximum - 2 talons of three as compulsory troops, on Blood Feud they autoloose due to low damage. They also really REALLY dislike meltabombs - especially on WS5 and if you can bring multiple efficiently - such units can easily delete Dreadnaughts. Tactical squads have value also - charge shooty dreadnaughts with double ranged weapon and Dorritos and keep them pinned in combat. Big units of Terminators with fists also beat Contemptors- though it takes on average 2 turns - which doesn't matter since And finally, this army folds to majority of primarchs, who tend to turn dreads into mincemeat and elite legion terminators(Justerin, Firedrakes or simple Command Squads+Praetor with Thunder Hammer). Additionally, it's free slay the warlord points, no way to pin or control movement of the enemy - and most missions in any version of any Warhammer game are won in movement phase, where this is weak. I'm slowly building almost fully plastic army just out of heresy box, Kratos, 2 preds that I had lying around and extra contemptor and I'm not too terribly worried about this particular army (Got alpha Legion, 3 tacticals - big one goes into spartan, small ones into rhinos with MM, small dawnbringer squad with some character, 2 small Headhunter kill teams with MM a piece and 3 jetbikes with MM + some HQ,2 preds(pred cannon + las sponson), spartan, Kratos(lascanons+Melta cannon) is what I'm thinking) - basically hardly a mega competitive army, and it can easily move 2+ Contemptors of the board per turn - goes to 3+ once melee dudes get stuck in. I'd honestly be more scared of more balanced army with 6+ dreads than this.

[@rorythomas9469]

We definitely need to see these played rather than things being banned off theory.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Some really good counter points! I think we definitely need to see this played. My money is still on the dreadnoughts though. I don't think Movement 8 and the option to run another 4 inches is overly slow though... Also this game will be won with Sweeping Advances, not pure damage output. Counters to counters, as you said.

[@Darkfist007]

I've been excited to do a FotA list since I saw they made it not utter trash like in HH1. But I have several armies, so if someone doesn't want to play against it, they can play against my squats, or my daemons. That being said. I think Daemon of the Ruinstorm, assuming they aren't nerfed into the ground, will tear apart a FotA list.

[@djtodorov]

It's -1 after, the rule follows the order of operations

[@lordalpharius5928]

Honestly I try to find something that does multi wound damage and apply it to most units that counter this list and monster spam like a legio cybernetica

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Brutal is where it's at. And you know who has it in spades... CONTEMPTOR DREADNOUGHTS! :D Lol...

[@lordalpharius5928]

@@blackbriargaming5483 try haywire

[@lordalpharius5928]

@@blackbriargaming5483 also try using weapons with or has brutal 3+, dreads hate them. I have a feeling many mechanicum and Custodes weapons will have more of that. Also try finding gear ot psychic powers that takes away invul saves or give an aura like ability that takes away invul in conjunction with plenty of AP2

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@lordalpharius5928 yeah I been chatting with my mate about Brutal this morning. May have come up with a wild strat including Rad Missiles and Demolisher Cannons to combine Instant Death and Brutal 😅 But that pesky 2+ save gets in the way

[@lordalpharius5928]

@@blackbriargaming5483 graviton weapons has haywire, and dreads are force to take an invul save on a 2 to 5, and it ignited invul on 6. Causes a single wound on dreads and automatas

[@frizzank]

This ROW isn't as scary as it seems. Just keep the all melee Dreads out of combat with vehicles, staying out of their range. All ranged Dreads can be charged from Deepstrike, and tied up for the rest of the game. Dreads doing both melee and ranged won't do anything particularly well.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

We've got a tournament coming up, and I know one of the lads is going to bring 5 dreads to a 1400pt campaign. I'll let you know how he goes!

[@ruleofkoolwargaming4926]

Basically, it just comes down to something extremely simple…. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Just because it’s in the game, doesn’t mean it’s good for the game, and doesn’t mean you should play it.

[@FlourEater]

I like it tbh! It would be fun experience to play and against. I don´t see it as a problem either, in a sense it feels like all knight lists in 40k or other super elite lists. If I would play it, I would tell my opponent in advance "Hey, I am bringing all-contemptor army" ... just a heads up. Thank you for the review!

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Oh! If you tell your opponent and it's for a fun match between mates. I'm all for it. Load up on those lascannons! My concern is events that people have turned up to, and their subsequent experience.

[@FlourEater]

@@blackbriargaming5483 absolutely, I guess that depends on the GM of that particular event. It comes down to the player in the end.. as always.

[@Nilmur2]

Rad weapons and str 12 weapons would be the counter to the contemptors, but i don't know how spammy those weapons can get. since dreadnoughts aren't immune to instant death

[@kennethphillips6006]

Dreadnoughts with atomantic shields only take 1d3 wounds for any unsaved instant death wounds

[@joahnaut]

Contemptor combat would be amazing. Just a straight up zombie robot fight.

[@captainparty]

While Contemptors are really strong now, they’re really pricey for it, the Fury of the Ancients list is going to be hard everything it needs to do at 3k points, you’re not going to have a lot of the tools it’s going to want. It’s one of those things that looks great on paper but at the end of the day, the tabletop experience is always a bit different. I’ve seen a lot of Fury of the Ancients in the previous edition, it never really worked and no one had a good time against it.

[@38crippler]

yeah but before you were hitting them on 4s and melta bombs had a 1 in 3 of killing them outright (with more melta access). Now that WS5 makes WS4 hit on 5s, basic units lost melta bomb access, and they need average 3 ID wounds to go through to kill em, they're ridiculously more durable than before. especially with S9 brutal 3 on their basic weapons and all their heavy weapons being either twin linked, extra shot, or both versions of smaller weapons; plus reactions, we're looking at some major firepower and durability for cost. levis of course are a huge winner here because of how durable t8 is and how strong storm cannons are. my group's been looking into ways to deal with them and so far our best options are ignore them, be iron hands/warriors, or take our own dreads.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@38crippler - Of course, you have good points. I have a feeling the first guy was trying to say "but guys, it's not that strong at all!" as he brings his own Fury of the Ancients lists and tricks himself into thinking his "skill" wins the game. Primarchs are 430+ points, and a Contemptor is only a few small steps down in combat power from some of them, but at less than half the cost. Something is wrong here. I think they should be brought down in wounds AND increased in points.

[@Rathios1337]

:( I got really excited about playing a full dreadnought army and now I feel like an asshole

[@lesbianmorgoth652]

Same here, it sucks :(( I'm thinking I'll just be limiting myself to only one dread per talon to try and be a bit fairer, but still feels weird :/

[@benkai09]

So I've put together a fury af the legion army it consists of 11 contemptors 2 Leviathans and a deredeo. It is not the sort of army i would dream of taking to a tournement. The local flgs tournament I'd do it once because i know 90% of the people that'd be going. My main army is all terminators and landraiders so people will be expecting me to take the heavy infantry at a minimum XD

[@deonisdevastator]

Я бы очень хотел поиграть армией только из дредноутов, но я не могу из-за того что опасаюсь быть слишком OP. Это очень грустно, когда армия которой ты хочешь играть слишком сильная чтобы приносить удовольствие и тебе и оппоненту.

[@RaevenKS]

It's the same concept as with Blood Angel charge turn 1 stuff. People will simply go toward what can effectively kill a dread. They are resilient if you try to see them as the old "armoured profil" they were. But if you go Plasma shower, they are not that incredible.

[@itsmeseppy601]

So to the point of the narrative bullet. When I first saw this RoW, my mind almost immediately went narrative. Picture post-battlefield Isstvan V (or any other multi-legion battle, really), bodies of all legions strewn across the landscape. Mechanicus would surely have gotten word of it and saw it as an opportunity. They would roll up after the dust has settled, and start salvaging. Bringing back what they could to reforge the fallen. What better way than in the big 'ol punchy boxes of the dreads. Would be an awesome excuse to get a bunch of individual legion-specific dreadnoughts and have a reason to A. field them all and B. give them a reason they're all fighting together. Each could have a loadout of weapons honoring their original legion's fighting style, Alpha legion may possibly be the best for this to grab one of the legion- specific dreads from Blood Angels or Word Bearers, etc. Definitely think there is some nice room to brainstorm an awesome thematic and narrative reason for taking this type of list. Lead it with a techmarine (perhaps one that had fallen and was put into his own dread? Big possibilities there!) and you have a mega fluffy army. I think it can also self-balance itself by having each dread act as it's legion would, instead of a cohesive army (some of these guys would have likely killed eachother anyway) so it could lead to some "sub optimal gameplay" and leave things more open to the opponent taking advantage. Just some ideas swimming in my head since seeing these!

[@steffanisorensen7133]

points wise you arnt bringing a lot of stuff though. you have a character that's very venerable to heavy arms fire and only around 7 models on the board. like with super heavies, you can ignore most of the force and just focus on getting onto other objectives? its gonna look cool, and you spend like £180 for the 7 models, at ...200-300 points per dread.

[@KnightsofTitan]

Yeah if some dropped this list and I wasn't at a tournament..I would pick up my army and leave. I'm not playing against a list I won't have fun facing. I also here by dub the dread upgrade as the dread daddy Also for any interested blood angels have a fast attack dreadnought with a jump pack. Go wild bird boys

[@jonathankilby6636]

Honestly salamanders for this rite of war. The it will not die adds up when you've got this many multi war minis

[@blackbriargaming5483]

They're definitely up there!

[@trimpy100]

Not gonna lie here. This seems really appealing to both me and Mortarion. I loooooove dreds.

[@ashlevrier]

gate keeping is the way. some one rocks up to a event with a broken list they get ejected from the event.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Ha ha, too subjective. And unfair to do so with no pre-communicated limitations. The community will find its new feet in this space, but patience and gentle suggestions to begin with is probably the better way to go.

[@ashlevrier]

@@blackbriargaming5483 well what i have seen is they are very stringent. i one time just wanted to run a single combat shield as a boarding shield. because i didnt want to pay a lot of money just for one shield. they said nope. hard no. because there that way they never have to deal with power gamers.

[@stevenschnepp576]

@@ashlevrier Or people not dim enough to dump a hundred dollars or more onto a single unit. The real-world price of the item is a _stupid_ way to restrict it in game.

[@RX93Custom]

I really want to make this army I love dreads

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Go nuts! Maybe just for friendly games with a heads up to your opponent though...?

[@RX93Custom]

@@blackbriargaming5483 so I don’t ever do anything but friendly/narrative games, I stopped being competitive years ago, but I love dreads and you know would build the list and only play it once in a while, I don’t want people to not have fun of corse =).

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@RX93Custom why play anything other than friendly and narrative games? That's my motto! 😁

[@slusk1981]

This RoW also has a miserable time against a balanced list in missions like Blood feud.

[@woodsmokes9th67]

Honestly this is a non issue, there are so many units that can deal with Dreadnoughts and to think bolter spam should do anything more than 1 wound to them is silly

[@Mittens_Gaming]

bring some dreads of my own, and melta. melta seems really strong against a lot of things this edition.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Definitely! Though another point for the Alpha Legion version, reduces the range of all of your melta weapons by 2 inches which can really make or break a unit getting a decent amount of shots off.

[@volkarve]

I 3d print dreads for a few bucks worth of resin....i just found my IH army lol even if i only played it afew times with my at home group and shelved it for a cool display. Id only be out maybe 70 bucks worth of resin and a days worth of printing. Good video but wish your audio output was higher. Have fun out there guys and be awesome to each other

[@demonic_myst4503]

On narative game have to agree im building a bretheren of iron iron warrior list because bretheren of iron actualy existed in the iron warriors as the apolakron even using the tyrany of apolakron warlord trait ehich is a horibly bad trait but thenatical its a fluff arny a bad rite or war mixed with a good faction that is kust lore acurate and fluffy

[@dominator627]

Surprised you didn't mention salamanders

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Kinda like a poor man's Iron Hands. While the IWND 6+ will give you a wound or two a turn across your army, I'm not sure it's worth giving up the -1S pip to Lascannons, Missile Launchers, Autocannons, etc. But yep! They get a look in!

[@OVERKILLxxPro]

And after your advice I will say "I like Dreadnoughts." I have Trog army, a Skaven Rat Ogor army, a Space Wolves Dread army and an Ork Dread mob army. Not because I like the rules... I like big stompy things! I am sorry that I lack self-regulation to you :(

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Oh! I like Dreads too. But you can like Dreadnoughts and still only have three of them in an army :P I'm sure all those other armies are just fine. But at the moment in Heresy, Dreads are at the height of the bell curve for power, so it's important we keep that in mind when building fun lists to play, and play against.

[@HellbenntTube]

Someone must have watched the OuterCircle

[@blackbriargaming5483]

As in me or someone else in the comments? I actually don't watch OuterCircle for a couple reasons. Mainly so I can offer a different point of view without being influenced by their, sometimes rather sullen, attitude... On the other hand if we're both saying it, you know it's got to be true! :P

[@robertstrong6798]

Yeah I’m an experienced heresy player , spam is heresy take your two troops and be done with it. You are losing 200pts everything else can be super weapons ! Be they contemptors or tanks etc. I’m painting my pink and purple core and watching

[@michielschouten]

Actually i disagree with the whole narrative playstyle. Yes it has always been this way in 1.0. But you see a lot of 40k 9th players switching to HH 2.0 because they are bored with 9th, and still try make competitive lists. I thought the same, oh cool HH, playing narrative, until i faced nothing but terminators, lightning claws, thunder hammer and contemptor spams... oh i was so happy when i finished my 45 tacticals that die in 2 turns...Luckily there are narrative players and its is so much more fun. I just hope the competitive attitude and the mathammer style of play isn't going to be a thing in HH

[@chrismcguinness5405]

Would I play that army? Depends on one thing. Did they have it last edition where is was awful and just stuck it out cuz RoC? If the answer is yes, then they get the game. No? Swallow stones.

[@NapGod]

I'm inclined not to even give them that first game, salt be damned. LIfe's too short to spend 2-3 hours playing a game you don't want to. I'm a heresy n00b entering with this boxset. If I can read the room and exclude my 40k Mathhammer and L33T Listbuilding impulses from building my Heresy lists, then they can, too. I'll leave it to a heresy veteran to be nicer about it.

[@mrdelaney4440]

Just built my contemptor, fair play to anyone who inflicts building an army of them upon themselves they deserve any OP they get from this ROW 🤣

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Ha ha, yeah, look, you're not wrong.

[@MightyMoriar]

Salamanders give these bois it will not die!

[@robertstrong6798]

Ow I did alpha legion last edition that was my spam all contemptors ! It’s disgusting 🤮

[@GhstTwnzFnst]

I will never financially recover from this...

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Honestly if someone rocks up with 15 Contemptor Dreadnoughts, maybe they deserve the win...?

[@GhstTwnzFnst]

@@blackbriargaming5483 Working on it, I have 11 so far.

[@blackbriargaming5483]

@@GhstTwnzFnst 😅 What Legion you going with??

[@GhstTwnzFnst]

@@blackbriargaming5483 I play Raven Guard in 40k, figured I'd do the same in HH, but now knowing I can use all those Dreadnoughts, likely Iron Hands.

[@lordalpharius5928]

Is too early to say it’s broken, wait until mechanicum, Custodes, SA armor and knights! Oh and daemons

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Knights will be really interesting, they always had a complicated relationship with Legion armies.

[@Instar_nine]

This isn't broken Lots of cheap counters to this Tagmatta army alpha leak has many options It's interesting idea but dreds would struggle

[@billeverson5821]

Have to justify it in fluff... I run Salamanders FotA, post Istvaan; but I also run 2 20 man tacticals. The Leviathan underperforms EVERY game... they don't die, but they can't kill anything either. I wouldn't have made them compulsory to be line, and instead not allowed them in the compulsory slot, forcing at least some infantry onto the table

[@bigchrisky7031]

Hahaha dollarydoos you have to be an aussie with a saying like that

[@blackbriargaming5483]

Could you not already tell from the accent?? Lol. Although my Australian accent is rubbish. That's what happens when you grow up in the south.