Hot Label A300 300dpi Thermal Printer vs Zebra 203dpi

[@EEVblog2]

PART 2 video kzbin.info/www/bejne/jGXYm3R-pN-SadE UPDATE: I *KNOW* it's a software scaling issue in addition to the reduced dpi, please stop commenting on this. This is plainly obvious on difference between programs and image sources. I am using the official Zebra driver, silly me. I tried installing the Seagull driver but it will not detect my print and will not let me proceed. I *DO* get clean edge barcodes from my Zebra in my shipping program, but I have problem with the tight spacing on the Aus Post barcodes and small font on the DHL labels. The 300dpi printer fixes all of this.

[@expired56k]

I can definitely attest to 300dpi making a huge difference for labels. I use a Brother QL-1100 (very happy with it by the way) which is same DPI and around $200 US. Zebra are mostly for industrial use as they usually have support for really old systems and embedded devices like WinCE based kiosks, ATM, etc. Vast overkill for home use, even by price alone.

[@Okurka.]

I bet it's a software scaling issue in addition to the reduced dpi.

[@Graham_Wideman]

@@Okurka. I disagree. It might be the software scaling issue, and also the reduced dpi. :-)

[@andytrueman2846]

Dave, I was a Zebra technician and that barcode with the jagged edges is possibly the worst I've seen. A 200dpi printer is perfectly capable of printing crisp text and barcodes. I'm guessing here, but I'm thinking that the print job is generated from a 300dpi pdf or image and because 2 doesn't divide into 3 the print quality is poor. Seagull is a company that produces dedicated label printing software called Bartender and they also write their own Windows print drivers. You could try downloading the Seagull drivers for your Zebra, but if you're happy with the One Hung Low printer - stick with it. Cheers.

[@EEVblog2]

Thanks. Yes I suspect it's a driver scaling issue. Silly me for using the official Zebra drivers and expecting them to just work and print nice crisp labels.

[@michael-gary-scott]

One Hung Low hahaha

[@nathansavery3298]

I have worked with Bartender a fair bit, and while it is decent, I would much rather use Clarisoft. Also Bartender requires a connection to the seagull server, which is fine if that is installed on the same PC as Bartender, but if you have a seperate server and if your connection goes down for any reason, you are unable to print, which is something that I haven't come across with Clarisoft as it isn't a server/client program.

[@madisond5042]

Super helpful!! The exact comparison video 205 vs 300 dpi I was looking for. Thank you!

[@DavidRickett]

I've written software to produce labels on Zebra. That GC420d is pretty ancient, and is just a renamed LP2844 from when Zebra bought Eltron. Modern equivalents would be the GK420d (last decade) or ZD420d (this decade). That being said the behaviour you're seeing from that Zebra is not unexpected when it prints a rastered image (try scaling the image to a multiple of 812 (203x4) pixels wide before printing), I'd be interested in seeing what it prints when you go into the zebra printer driver and issue a custom print command like on page 69 of the 1710 page ZPL2 programming document (yes, it really is 1710 pages of how to make the printer work). Previously I wrote some custom inventory software that used Zebra ZT410s to generate labels and Symbol MC40s (which are really cheap on ebay!) as scanners/control interfaces for the printers.

[@EEVblog2]

I had the GK420d and it had the same issue.

[@fredinit]

Dave - It's your driver. I've got at a Zebra ZP 450 CP - 200dpi beast like yours that does a great job printing all the usual barcodes... 3of9, 128, Maxi code, PDF417, ECC200/Datamatrix, QR Codes, etc. As for the driver for your Hot Label - Bartender from Seagull Scientific is THE software you want. I would head out to Seagull's website and find their driver for your Zebra. The driver is independent of the Bartender software - no signups to download them. Seagull built the custom printer driver for the Rimage thermal, Everest, and Everest 600 CD/DVD/BR printers. None of that ink-jet rubbish. Legally indelible dye-sub laminated media printing. Those printers were awesome!

[@EEVblog2]

Silly me is using the Zebra driver.

[@jaro6985]

Agree, I'm using 200dpi too and small text is very dark and sharp. You can see dithering in the zebra printout, even though its disabled. Although it may not be easily fixable, so if the new printer works out of the box its worth it to not screw around.

[@BillyONeal]

Hearing Aussie “Dots Per *Inch*” is giving me a double take every time :)

[@radp4291]

honestly I never understood why people messed around with Zebra designer or seagull scientifics bartender software. the great thing about Zebra printers is that you can use them without any auxillary software or drivers! all you have to do is send your ZPL code (a formatted string) to the printer, you can do it with netcat on linux and in java you just send the bytes of your string to the printer on port 9100.

[@pldaniels]

Dave you'll possibly remember I bought myself a shipping label printer recently, generic 203dpi unit, and in the end, I threw it out. The ugliness you're seeing on the Zebra matches the issues I was having. I would get some settings where the barcode was good but the text was useless and vice-versa. In the end, picked up the Brother QL1100 and all is a LOT better now. 203dpi units seem to be doomed really, they just can't produce the goods :( I see Auspost say their labels are only assured on 300dpi.

[@EEVblog2]

Yep, I've got two different models Zebra's with the same 203dpi and the same issues. Interesting about that Aus Post requirement, and yes I mostly having issues with Aus Post. Completely gone now with the 300dpi.

[@gamerpaddy]

i got the smaller brother label printer and wrote a converter to convert dhl labels to fit the smaller ones (moving the barcodes to the right, address on left etc.) dhl is just fine with a different layout as long as everything is visible.

[@JamesPotts]

As said elsewhere, I think your Zebra isn't working right. I'd still expect the 300 dpi to be better, but your Zebra seems sub-par.

[@EEVblog2]

Yes, it's not just the DPI, but the software scaling.

[@hallcrash]

I use an old Zebra 2844. I got on Ebay for like $80US. It's on a Linux print server, it's been working for 10+ years, over and over and over. When I see those printing clarity issues, I clean the thing with thermal label printer cleaner sheets, and an alcohol pen on the roller. Maintenance is required for all of those devices. I also don't use the rolls of thermal labels. I find the fan-fold labels are less expensive, and I aquirer them in boxes of 2000 fan-fold for less than $50US on Amazon. I think Buhbo is the brand.

[@EEVblog2]

In this case it's not a cleanign problem, it's a problem of processing and rendering of the image and the print resolution.

[@hallcrash]

@@EEVblog2 the Zebra 2844 is still a 203 dpi printer, although discontinued in 2012. Maybe the linux CUPS driver is better than the Windows driver?

[@theLuigiFan0007Productions]

​@@hallcrash I was almost gonna say, the quality can definitely be better than what was showing up here. I would lean strongly on the side of a combination of the print software's label generation technique AND badly written drivers AND the lower resolution working together to make that an issue. But my method of printing doesn't use drivers, and directly generates the ZPL code of the labels and sends it off to the printer, either over Bluetooth, WiFi or RS-232. It exclusively uses the printer's built in font and barcode rendering, instead of sending a image or raw pixel data. That DOES make a difference. But, if Dave found a cheaper device that works perfect for what he needs, it's probably the easiest way to fix that problem. Source(s): I made a app that prints notes and custom labels on Zebra thermal printers, and can navigate the label programming manual fairly thoroughly.

[@SeanBZA]

Got 2 of them for free, and yes they work on linux, though there are caveats on that.

[@ThebigFlanc]

@@hallcrash I feel like CUPS drivers are almost always better than Windows drivers.

[@stevelupton2533]

There's something weird going on with scaling / interpolation on your Zebra. We use GC420d here and our UPS labels are perfect. The text is crisp and sharp and the barcodes are perfectly clear. It looks like a bitmap image is being scaled nearest neighbour or something. Not normal for sure, but we're using the Seagull driver on the GC420d.

[@EEVblog2]

Silly me for using the official Zebra driver and expecting it to work.

[@stevelupton2533]

@@EEVblog2 it wasn't a criticism. Those Zebra printers have their own language and when you use them directly with the shippers own software (UPS etc), it uses that language to describe the label to the printer - they print instantly because only a few hundred bytes of data are being sent, and the quality is razor sharp (even better than with the Seagull driver). Because you're using a third party shipping company, they are rasterising all the labels. The Zebra Windows driver really is terrible - it uses really crappy interpolation. Ultimately the remaining issue you have (I've watched your second video) is with your third party software sending those 2D barcodes as images to the printer. I don't know why they're rasterising, rather than keeping things as vectors. I guess it was easier... But it makes it absolutely crucial as you've discovered to fully disable dithering. Your higher resolution printer is masking this issue. For all the lines to be wavy though, it means they're sending a greyscale image rather than a monochrome bitmap. They ought to fix that. We accidentally discovered the improved performance on the Zebra printers using the Seagull driver. We bought some new (non-Zebra) printers and they actually came with Seagull drivers in the box - there were no manufacturer supplied drivers at all - and this prompted me to wonder if there was any point in trying them on the Zebra printers. Lo and behold, a massive improvement.

[@andljoy]

We use Zebra printers in the hospital i do IT for . We use them as we have to have consistency and confidence the output will always be the same, even if its not quite as good. We also need to be able to get parts for them and supplies for them and the supply is just better with a more common brand. Its kind of like using a fluke, you have to trust it even if you can get better for less money. For what you are doing get the cheaper better printer for sure :)

[@mfx1]

Didn't realise you actually still shipped stuff, last time I looked nothing I wanted was in stock.

[@QsTechService1]

Wow looks like a really nice printer If I didn't have my brother printer I would definitely buy this one thanks for sharing Dave

[@UpLateGeek]

We used to sell kiosks at my old job, and I believe the thermal printers we integrated into them were open frame models from Star Micronics. They were really fast, to the point where I'd occasionally see a customer using one jump in surprise when it spat out the paper! The earlier models were pretty low-resolution, but the later ones were much better. I have no idea what resolution they were though. Sometimes they'll have options hard set with DIP switches, so it's possible yours has some weird option enabled that forces it to dither the image that it receives from the PC. I don't know about Zebra printers, but I've used some that you can hold down the button while powering it on and it would print out a test page with all the settings listed. Could also be an issue with the scaling option, you might be able to set it to disable scaling or fit to page width or whatever.

[@johng.1703]

I've used a bunch of the larger 203DPI zebra printers and I haven't see this sort of thing happening. how the print job is sent to the printer (EPL,CPCL,ZPL,etc) can have a massive effect.

[@Psi105]

I've been using two ~USD$70 aliexpress label printers for DHL and other labels for many years. (They also both use seagull driver) They do have a few quirks but yeah they work great for the money. I see no need to ever spend $400 on a zebra. Making sure to print 1:1 scale is critical, it's easy to mess something up and have it start doing some amount of scaling which will ruin barcode lines. Either in the app side or the driver side, or both.

[@ulwur]

Was the zebra always like this? I have found on smaller strip label printers a clean of the printhead makes all the difference! Exactly like the zebra shows, uneven printing just goes away.

[@EEVblog2]

Yes, and on two differnent model machines.

[@EEStuff]

Something is wrong with the Zebra driver. It looks like it is being rasterized at some point in the process. Are the PDFs vector graphics? I have a Zebra LP 2844 (203 dpi) and it prints way better than that.

[@EEVblog2]

They are generated by my shipping software.

[@Amir-kz6yq]

4:07, upside down, no electon fall?

[@npgatech7]

There is also Brother QL-1110NWB. With Wi-Fi support and can print straight from phone over bluetooth. Also has a ethernet jack. 300dpi, top notch Japanese company with great software. It's more expensive but any expense less than $500 is no brainer for a central component of a business.

[@Sulfen]

Brother also has their TD lineup some of which have wifi and ethernet and they can use any label like rolls or fanfold fed from the back allowing you to use the free UPS labels.

[@SeanBZA]

For the Zebra printers you can install multiple copies, each with their own density and speed settings, though the Zebra software itself stores printer settings per label when you save it. The separate printers works for software that is not really aware of printer and treats like a regular printer. Zebra is a market leader simply because they sell the printer, and give the basic software for free, and Zebra designer does around 80% of the labels you need. If you want to integrate with other software then you pay for the upgrade, but the "works out of the box" of Zebra is the big seller. And no DRM on the labels at all, and you can use roll labels, any size that fits, or get the stand that allows both massive rolls of labels, and also includes the take up roller to make bulk labels.Those print heads do last a long time, though all will eventually get dead pixels in them. But for almost all the 203DPI printers the head is the same, and you can change them out for new. But only really after a 100 000km of print.

[@rkan2]

For 400$ you should be able to get the big hunking mATX case sized 203/300dpi label printers used. :P They will also spit out labels like nobody's business of course.

[@gamerpaddy]

the zebra ones have a (at least the zd ones with wifi) small switch underneath the usb port to set the contrast or something. maybe yours is set to low. i have had a zd420 and zd410 (repair video on my channel) both had quite useable printing results.

[@Okurka.]

5:20 Those aren't UPS labels.

[@TomStorey96]

He makes these kinds of mistakes all the time. You get used to it.

[@Petro770]

Test with different program. Pdf labels for some reason prints weird

[@NeilMartinIsHere]

Can you use these label printers to print out regular documents and images on a roll of thermal paper?

[@Sulfen]

If you can scale it to a 4x6 paper then yes. They won't last as long as ink or toner but they last a fair amount of time if you store them correctly.

[@jrmcferren]

Dave, I'm going to have to go with the other comments. I think there is something beyond the resolution causing you issues with the Zebra printer. I'm seeing suspicions of the scaling being an issue. For scanning, 200 dpi is my minimum for text and that's what a fax machine uses on standard mode, in either case, it usually doesn't look that poor.

[@EEVblog2]

Yes, it's the scaling.

[@MAYERMAKES]

well there goes the christmas money, also seems these hotlabel printers have linux driver support.

[@Wilksey37]

What software do you run your shop?

[@leodaso2]

I have clients starting to purchase these "off brand" label printers. So far so good. It seems they ripped a lot of the Zebra. Arkscan is the brand my clients are mostly buying. They have been a sinch to setup, and use Seagull drivers. Even network ones have been great! We will see how long they last. I still have a lot of Zebra 2844 still in the field and they have to be close to 20 years old.

[@alanl3292]

my Zebra GC420d prints UPS label in the same quality like the Hot Label A300 in the video. you been using it wrong so please try print from Adobe reader and not from chrome browser or Zebra designer software. Browser like to print with dithering on even with dithering turned off in the driver setting.

[@EEVblog2]

It's still no good from my shipping software, and that's all that matters.

[@alanl3292]

@@EEVblog2 its a driver issue. try zebra drivers by seagulls.

[@Narwaro]

It really depends on the rasterization. If your software is a shitty PDF/PostScript renderer it usually looks really shitty on 1 bit black and white. But if your software directly outputs rasterized 1bit grayscale it usually looks very sharp. But I have no clue about Windows. We use those things with CUPS in our Linux/Unix only network.

[@Skraap]

Something is wrong with your Zebra, that is sub par performance compared to what I have experienced. There is some fuckery with how the darkness is adjustet, as you can also do it directly on the printer by holding down the button.

[@EEVblog2]

Both Zebra's (different models) performed the same on the software and lablesl I was printing. Aside fro mthe resolution, it's the way the Zebra driver renders the image that also determines the quality.

[@chasingcapsaicin]

Looks like a possibly bad memory buffer in the Zebra, overpriced junk. Only just recently condemned my HP LaserJet II. Use an HP-CP1525 now found and the test/check/log/print showing

[@veryboringname.]

You can do a quick and dirty screen capture with winkey-G. Won't beat a proper hdmi screen capture or capture with dedicated software though. Coincidentally I just ordered a Paperang P2 300dpi pocket thermal printer last night. They have a 203dpi model (P1) too, print quality for small things with curves is noticeably lower on that compared to the 300dpi model.

[@KeritechElectronics]

We've got a Zebra at our local hackerspace; the optotransistor in the lid failed, can't find a replacement. We bought a new one. Meh.

[@BrianHG.Ocean.Fitness]

May be a really old windows printer driver bug, not Zebra. When you have odd printer resolutions (IE: 203 dpi), and a B&W pixel output, windows completely omits some rows and columns and pixel corners when converting / rendering the internal graphics to the printer's raster. However, I haven't seen this problem since WinXP. Perhaps, turning ON Dithering may improve things or Zebra is relying on a deprecated library from windows printer HDK and you are just stuck with the quality you have.

[@EEVblog2]

I've tried a ton of stuff including dithering and it doesn't really fix things. I assumed it's just hwo the driver renders it.

[@nathansavery3298]

I use similar printers myself. Specifically the Linx Series TT500 and TT1000 series of ribbon based thermal printers. The only thing I would warn people about is going from 200dpi to 300dpi the price of teh replacement print heads jumps from $200-300 to over $2000. They do last a while, and my experience is that they are more likely to be physically damaged by operators rather than wear out, but its something to consider.

[@spacenomad5484]

I hate those Zebra printer (drivers) with a passion. They have massive software problems, sometimes they do not apply the driver settings. Forget about using these with a windows print server as well, we had a customer with 3 GK420d's and they all had problems even though everything was set up fine on the server and distributed via GPO. Days and days of wasted troubleshooting and finding working settings again (remember, the printer does not always apply settings from the windows driver...)

[@envisionelectronics]

I struggled with their drivers 15 years ago. I can’t imagine how anyone gets them to work properly.

[@PropaneTreeFiddy]

If you ever happen upon a dumpster dive industrial model (Zebra ZT series or similar) those are definitely worth the effort to restore and learn to maintain em....just take good care of the print head cause they run for hundreds, but besides that if you dial it in and don't abuse it it'll last a lifetime outside of a 24/7 plant

[@wburger2178]

Is it Zebra or Zebra?

[@TomStorey96]

In Australia I would expect zeb-ra, in America I would expect zee-bra.

[@ZylonFPV]

My thoughts are… do a double tear down! Maybe the zebra uses better components or is more reliable?

[@Brooo007MC]

😅 Not much you can teardown, the BMP image is sent to the printer to be printed with it's thermal print head, which you cant really do anything but look at closely and marvel how small the thermal dots are. The difference in image quality is computer software side. Though seeing the difference in the solid black rectangles, it'll be interesting because that's usually an alignment issue against the platen roller, or just because it hast been cleaned in a while.

[@ZylonFPV]

@@Brooo007MC the surrounding electronics, power circuitry and mechanism can still be looked at 🙂 build quality too.

[@JoshuaCorley]

I would say the print head is on way out, try turning speed down and darkness up

[@snip3d]

Did you want to compare a newer Zebra printer? ZD421 maybe? - Let me know!

[@Marin3r101]

Dave this doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

[@EEVblog2]

Why? Cheap and better vs the industry standard. Very fair IMO.

[@gianlucalocri]

I bet that the image produced by the shipping software is rendered specifically for 300dpi printers and zebra driver is trying his best to get the print done. Maybe it is an old driver an doesn't even support that resolution. Who knows.. I would try other software/driver combination as suggested by many others.

[@JoshuaCorley]

Oh boy the hot label looks like a newer zebra

[@Sailingon]

Try swapping the labels, the zebras print is much better than that and the speed is the same as the hotlabel printer that looks like a copy of the zebra GX420t, my job is repairing our zebra printers from these desktop printers to industrial printers on the conveyors.

[@firedeveloper]

Baretender is well known driver also.

[@MLX1401]

Oh c'mon that Zebra looks like it's at least 20 years old. Good luck printing with that Hotmelt in 2042...

[@johng.1703]

4" p/s and 6"p?s if the 4" one takes 5 seconds, the 6" one should take around 3.33 seconds.

[@programorprogrammed]

Sold

[@lordnetsplits3192]

Looks a lot like the Arkscan printers.

[@ikbendusan]

i love ZPL

[@Nighthawke70]

I've known warehouse control software to be designed expressively to use zebra code. Meaning, you can't just go out and buy a brother to do a quick upgrade or swapout in case a $2,000 zebra production unit should break and no parts available or is out of warranty and the manager is not willing to part with the cash. You are STUCK with using zebra units, period.

[@gregalss]

31 AUGUST 2019 DATES WRONG GOOD ENOUGH FOR Australia

[@bumv2]

Dithered barcodes and missing thin lines in letters is just stupid software or bad configuration.

[@MikeBramm]

You've got something wrong either with your printer or driver. I have several 200 DPI Zebra label printers and they all print much better than what you're getting from your GC420d.

[@5Breaker]

Zebra: "ready, set, go" and starts stopwatch HotLabel: "go", waits and starts stopwatch a second late from the "go" HotLabel is faster WHAAAAAT! I don't say that you obviously fudged the data but man will there be comments. xD

[@Okurka.]

Comparing an ancient printer with a recent one will get more comments.

[@00Skyfox]

Just go with a 24 pin dot matrix. She'll be right!

[@baslichtjaar2807]

I see this is an upgraded 203DPI Xprinter sold in gray on: AliExpress as XP-450b But wow! An affordable Linux 300dpi label printer. For AU and US only. :( Anyone in Europe got there hands on one?

[@bertblankenstein3738]

Dang, I threw away the packaging and I suppose I'd have to buy another meter to see...

[@ElectronicEnigmaZone]

I have the Zebra 2844 (eBay surplus UPS version), and My labels are way better than yours; not sure why yours look so crappy. We have this setup at work for DHL, and all labels from it are a lot nicer, Same model of Zebra at work, 2844.

[@nutsnproud6932]

My GC420d prints better way than yours. Pin sharp bar and QR codes that scan perfectly.

[@denizcancgsar2810]

For me the only problem: Chinese drivers..

[@chasingcapsaicin]

hell with Zebra and there proprietary garbage$$, thermal is about temp, to low activation UV/temp and they go unusable in transit. Have not tried the Hot one, stick with a good old HP laser and free blanks to print on

[@lasersbee]

The Hot Label Printer is bigger because they needed the space for the extras 97 Dots Per Inch..... :whistle: