Echo 2511T vs. Stihl ms200 - The Difference a Dawg Makes!

[@grin64]

That little echo holds it's own

[@boywonder768]

grin and bear it - echo are good, I had all my gear stolen a couple of months ago and have replaced all my stihl stuff for echo, saved loads of money and happy.

[@TheSpidersoftheworld]

@@boywonder768 damn man these theifs are getting bad i had the same happen to me over 3,500$ stolen . i just replaced all my saws for echo .damn good saws i get a chuckle here and there from the guys got them to try the saw's out and they were impressed.

[@joescissorhands141]

1st I've gotta ask, am so glad you posted this-- Do you think it could be dangerous to the 2511t powerhead to use dogs? I realized the cs590 dogs basically mounted-up directly, so I just ground them a touch to fit perfectly and mounted them -- it certainly let me push the 2511 harder but I couldn't help fearing I was going to destroy the gas and/or oil reservoirs since the dog's screw-bosses are literally holes on the outer-edges of the reservoirs...I removed it, I want it back (I'm a climber, and will admit I 1-hand all the time, so having dogs lets you 1-hand in ways you simply cannot w/o dogs!!) REALLY wanna put them back onto the 2511 but was just so afraid I'd end up seeing oil and/or gas leaking after doing some hard cut pivoted from the dogs! [and WTF did that 2511 just beat a 200 rear-handle?? Isn't that "same as" a 200t? How is that even possible, that's not insane-o-ized yet, I could understand *if* it were ported but jesus this makes no sense, the 200t is nearly equivalent to a 355t (which certainly runs-around the 2511t, I have & love both and the smaller 2511t is even better power-to-weight but the 355t is 1/3rd more HP, and 200/201's should be identical ie 2.0 or 2.1HP off the shelf versus 1.45HP for the 2511's)]

[@hotsaws101]

Joe S. Hi Personally, I like the chain to be doing the work. Seems like if you have to push to get it to cut then the stops/rakers/depth gauges are to high. No slight intended. It is a fine line between just right where the chain will feed themselves and to low and the chain is grabby. So for me, I'll run big dawgs and take advantage of what they afford. In the 6 decades that I've been around the woods in some degree, I know nothing of your style since we have never worked together. I've seen guys that can tear up an anvil. Also, guys that can use a saw for a year and from 10 feet it looks near new. It you spoon on big, aggressive dawg(s) then the bash, crash, & thrash mentality needs to be put in check. The 2511 gives up ~10cc in displacement to the standard & top handle 200s. The 2511 is not going to win, or challenge really, either version when it is in stock form. So if I can make a "little saw that could" run with the "big kids" then I've done my job for the owner. Thanks for watching.

[@joescissorhands141]

@@hotsaws101 *ZERO* slight(sleight?) taken, honestly it's boss just getting a reply from you, I don't go in for regular TV you may as well be a celebrity to me lol ;) Re the dogs -- to be clear I meant for 1-handed extra precision, to be clear -- not at all a requirement or anything, but as you say the chain should do the work and dogs better help us make-use of this, honsetly it's funny because even like 1yr ago I still didn't "get" dogs, I'm an arb in coastal FL where the biggest trees I felled last year were still under 60' (and average is more like 40', Live & Laurel Oak predominate here) so my 590 was plenty for me, BUT once I got into the 660 clones (for fun & more power!) suddenly, using the 660 w/ those big dogs, suddenly I "got it", up until middle of last year I figured dogs were more of a lateral thing I didn't 'get' that they were a fulcrum point :P BUT yeah if you 1-hand (I'm a climber 1st & foremost) then there's almost no objective denial that the palm-rest offers you more precision, and the same can be said for the dogs - they amplify your ability to control it, this isn't "necessary" (nor is porting ;D ) but it's nice, it's "optimizing" (and yes I do have a big palm rest on my 2511t, like my 355t came with, will have a video up today I promise I know I should've posted days ago because my 2511t & big bore 'monster 660-clone' are both done now :D)

[@joescissorhands141]

@@hotsaws101 Oh and ROFL @ "lil saw that could" I now want a childish train-cartoon sticker for my 2511 :P You'd know more than anyone that 2-stroke output efficiency is NOT realized on 25cc jugs, if I chart HP/lbs for every saw I own, and even add-in some commonly-loved models, the HP/LBS rises as displacement rises, from my 25cc g2500 clone to my ~103-105cc 660-clone, *except* for the 2511t, it is an outlier in that its HP/LBS is superior to 201t/355t, I'm not saying raw/total output just power-per-pound, the 2511 is an outlier and that's just off the OEM spec 1.45BHP which we all know is rapidly jumped when the muffler is un-choked! Thanks so much for the reply, and all the amazing content, a year ago I considered saw-work a necessary-evil of my profession but now it's like playing (well at least w/ the bigger ones, cannot say I'd wanna port my 2511t & am very VERY happy to know it's competent-enough with "everything-but-porting" to not 'need' it, to be fair I did dog out the exhaust port's flange area and mating to the muffler-intake but that's all -- what areas of the cylinder did you find the most gains in? Am gonna guess that compression is a big one here considering OEM spec is 7.85:1!

[@jackhammer4248]

Been waiting for a video!! I know its been your summer over there so no sparks i guess. Woohoo

[@billa7571]

That echo could be. Sounds like it has the potential after you work your magic on it if you were to any way miny micro howler that's way cool love your videos Jack. And thank you for sharing them always God bless bro .

[@zachtrammell8054]

Dude your vids rock. You do the insane-o builds right?

[@victoriousvictor7978]

I think you better put them dawgs into production jack.

[@Blackeye35]

355T dawgs fit the 2511T. Smaller size for the 10" bar I run on mine ;)

[@HiLineTree]

Witha minor exhaust mod and carb adjustment I run the bar and chain supplied and the little saw rips ass. I love it for limbing in tree. Keep afuel can nearby though 😆

[@bradmetcalf7832]

I appreciate you taking the time to make these vids especially since all I use are Echo top handle(CS2511T&355) but I would really like to see what a stop watch says when you make a comparison. I also don't get why you armed that 2511 with a 16 inch bar? In my mind which I know is off center, I could never see a reason to do that. All the hop up kit's I have seen involve a Stihl 14" and 1/4-.043 set up's which is a climber and limber's dream. Anyway there your vid's and thank's. PS: pause the cam during bar changes!

[@hotsaws101]

Brad hi. The time comparisons are located in the description area. Because the parasitic drag on a 16" bar is around.5 of a HP. The longer the bar the more load that is needed to overcome by the saws and it is a great equalizer. I have a client that uses a 24" bar and know of a guy that uses a 28 on 200t saws. Not everyone is the same or thinks the same. I show the bar changes so there is no need for the detractors to run their mouths about skewing the results. I never actually thought about it until noticing a guy using different chains in a saw-off and then stating one saw cuts faster. It goes on all the time evidently. I know from YEARS of experience in/of sharpening chains that you cannot run two different chains and call it an accurate/fair showing. Thanks for watching.

[@Fabzacres]

I do all my work on terra-firma ... not a climber but have been up in a bucket ( ONCE lol ) ! I could see that tiny-mighty-mo ECHO running a 12” bar with 3/8 picco round (or better yet square) ground being an absolute Light - Saber up in the tree limbing up to 10” ... “Wood” make the right gent a lot of $$$

[@jbeard82]

Where did you get the dawg for this saw?

[@johnreed7719]

I have a 2511t I would be interested in having you do the same thing you did to this one. Are you available for work in December or January?

[@hotsaws101]

John hi. My email address is in the description area of most of the videos over the last few years. That is the best, first point if contact for me. Thanks for watching.

[@obxkoastie8170]

Jack Amazing. Att five pounds, put a Sugihara Lite bar on with some 63PS (non-safety) chain and it could put Stihl and Husky way behind the eight ball. I wonder what it would look like if you did your magic to the Echo CS-355T.

[@hotsaws101]

OBX Koastie hi. I used the same .050 Stihl PS chain as in the last video with these two. It appeared that the 2511T runs were 13 and 13 seconds. Seemed as though the ms200 ran 14 and 13. So they are pretty equal with the 2511T running WAY rich and ~ 10 ccs less in displacement. A bigger displacement saw chewing through this wood even faster I imagine. Thanks for watching.

[@oldoldpilgrim7898]

I wish you'd edit out some of the time you're fooling around off camera.

[@Fabzacres]

10000+ subs -Bravo Jack ! .....

[@hotsaws101]

Fabz hi. Hey thanks for the heads up. I have been pretty busy lately and did not notice. It is Stihl .050 PS chain, sharpened square. Hopefully the owner will be happy and weigh in here after he has had a chance to "kilt" some vegetation with it. Thanks for watching.

[@steppoffaith8426]

Should be lot more! He is twice the tree feller as bucking Billy Ray!! And is a wiz with saws.

[@danowen9142]

I need that dawg on my own 2511t. Where do I get it?

[@hotsaws101]

Dan hi. I "fabbed" them up in my shop. Thanks for watching.

[@obxkoastie8170]

Dan The dogs and the screws to attach them are available from Echo or lots of other dealers who sell Echo. Go to the Echo website, click on the manuals and go to the parts manual. Here is the bumper spike: C304000000. Here are the two screws: V805000240. Not sure why Echo doesn't increase the price by $5 and include them stock.

[@hotsaws101]

@@obxkoastie8170 that's a good thing to know since fabricating dawgs is not a "cheap and easy" maneuver.

[@PoplarMechanic]

@@obxkoastie8170 thanks for this

[@bradmetcalf7832]

@@obxkoastie8170 I can assure you that the felling dog I see at 1:51 in the vid is nothing like what echo sells. Echo should pay this guy for the design because theirs suck's.

[@michaelremski8295]

Thanks for this kind of stuff. Light weight, blessing and a curse. Heavier you get momentum and inertia in your favor, lighter weight is just easier on you. Kind of like a framing hammer vs a standard hammer.

[@outdoorvideos3825]

@Kenneth Silvers you're*

[@michaelremski8295]

Understood; right tool for the job and all that.

[@michaelremski8295]

Thanks for the reply (and putting your stuff up) Lots of good information, always enjoy the teardown comparisons and hot rodding. I'm guessing that exactly where the weight is can make a difference too.

[@hotsaws101]

Michael hi and thanks. Weight works the opposite in a kick back situation. It takes more energy (force) to get a heavy object moving, or moving in the reverse direction, than it does to get a light weight object moving. That's simple physics. It is the same in a tree, on the ground, or anywhere in between. If sawing directly overhead then there is gravity helping the down (back) force though. I completely track what you are referencing with the hammer analogy and run A LOT of lw bars because of it. Thanks for watching.

[@liammulligan4355]

@@hotsaws101 LW light weight bar . Will a light weight bar not kick quicker than a normal weight ?😐

[@scottfoster2487]

Any saw with out a dawg or pair of dawgs is not worth owning!

[@hksjoshua]

I love my ms194t but before I put it to use I had to get a metal dog/bumper for it but then I could not live without metal teeth

[@fabzacres-blackcat]

Looks like the “cat on a hot-tin roof” dancing of the bar from the previous video has been eliminated by the addition of a .........Dog ! Reading some of the comments on here makes one wonder if the circus is back in town OCD-style ... if ya ain’t got nothin nice to say then zip-it ...

[@vinceleonguerrero6311]

I’m of the understanding the longest bar recommended by echo is 14”. Putting a 16” bar gives advantage to Stihl.

[@hotsaws101]

This is a power comparison exercise. You cannot have a fair test without using the same bar & chain. I run longer than recommended bars on saws all the time felling timber. It pretty commonplace out on the West Coast. Thanks for watching.

[@robertdancho9671]

Unfair comparison

[@SkrixFox]

FIRST!!!

[@neosporin47]

Where did you add the sight line on the 2511t?