House of the Dragon S2E02 live Q&A discussion

[@MipsoSoup]

Otto trauma dumping then not reciprocating the favor for his daughter is hilarious 😂

[@RickyHGV]

yes, and then when alicent sees her son crying she ignores him, its a cycle

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

​@RickyHGV OH that's actually REALLY OBVIOUS now that you say that??? How did I miss that???

[@DisasterDIYist]

Aegon didn't want to be king but these two forced him to. Why are they now surprised that he has gone rogue lol

[@hillbillypowpow]

He's doing the exact same thing as Viscerys, as Alicent, refusing the acknowledge the apparent misdeeds of their children

[@YodaOnABender]

@@RickyHGVthat scene was really frustrating because, even if it wasn’t genuine, Alicent comforting Aegon would help to better their bond and potentially give her more control over him

[@8snowman88]

Every time Christon fails he gets a promotion it seems.

[@TheHellyeahmen]

If "mission failed successfully" was a person

[@MenwithHill]

That's the best part of his character. He's an irredeemable ball of negative emotions and absolutely the worst choice to be given power to.

[@hameed]

And he doesn’t age! What a life

[@alisterfolson]

Failing upward

[@staceyrose5821]

Lol wait for the bad haircut. He looks ridiculous... punishment enough😂

[@pharaohanakaris]

the sheer magnitude and audacity of Criston's projection in his bullying of Arryk was actually jaw dropping

[@annabelstien2851]

I feel like he was definitely projecting. Taking out his self-loathing on Arryk.

[@ricebix]

I don't get how Arryk didn't just show up on Dragonstone and say "fuck those guys, Krispy Kreme is a bitch, I'm joining you"

[@robinvik1]

@@ricebix They would never trust him. His brother joined out of principle, he would have joined because he was sendt on a suicide mission. Then how could they trust that he would follow orders from them if it got dangerous? Why wouldn't he just switch sides again, and that is assuming he isn't just a spy. He could have given himself up as a hostage or ran away, but there was just no way he could continue being a kingsguard without actually following through with the assassination plot. And he has been a kingsguard basically all his life, losing that identity with all the honor stuff that is tided up in that would probably be worse for him than losing his life.

[@JaneDoe_123]

Right?? Dude was projecting so hard he was about to invent IMAX before Westeros even had electricity

[@xomm]

At first I was like, "this projection is so on the nose that it's unrealistic." And then on second thought, actually yeah, people who are that hypocritical definitely exist... 😅

[@michaelt475]

The lone wolf dies, but Cheese's dog survives.

[@realdaggerman105]

Cheese’s Dog is Coming.

[@DingLiren1992]

Is Cheese's dog the Azor Ahai?

[@michaelt475]

@@DingLiren1992 The "Pup that was promised"

[@edith1315]

@@DingLiren1992 showise he may be 😂

[@习近平就一粉蛆头子]

r/Iam14thisisdeep

[@SciFiCatGuy]

Duty was the death of love for Erryk and Arryk.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Damn, dude, that almost made me cry

[@Hoot]

It's amazing how so many of the wise words from maesters etc. during the series keep repeating in different context and proved correct again and again

[@thomaswillard6267]

​@@HootExcept it is an inversion of Maester Aemon's proverb

[@sandipanghosh0511]

underrated comment.

[@Cruelrevolter]

MAESTER AEMON WAS VERY WISE EVEN FOR A MAESTER HE HAD A LOT OF WISDOM​@@thomaswillard6267

[@hephaestus98]

DAERON MENTIONED !!!!!!

[@sentientmustache8360]

TESSARION RAHHHHHH

[@carmacksanderson3937]

The dialogue surrounding that felt super clunky to me. I know it's probably for the benefit of the audience, but Otto going "ah yes, you have a son there" pulled me out of the narrative a little

[@iamnotagoose]

🚨🚨🚨

[@noicezzzzzzzzzzzzx4081]

Where was he mentioned and who is he?

[@hardikchoubey8232]

He’s the third and youngest son of Viserys and Alicent. He’s bonded to Tessarion, who’s supposed to be this beautiful blue dragon.

[@aquadonkey.]

Its a small thing but i love how jace and beala were able to openly talk about harwin strong, like he knows shes not using it to try and make fun of him, but shes just actually interested in what hes thinking and feeling. It also somewhat shows the hints of hoe corlys and rheanys are able to actually talk to each other truthfully

[@isaacmartinez7557]

Truthfully save for the bastards 🤣

[@aquadonkey.]

@isaacmartinez7557 i kinda feel like just mentioning harwin was enough for them to basically acknowledge that they know the thruth that he was their real dad but just dont want to say it. I only know bits and pieces of fire and blood but i kinda hope he eventually uses the "Strong" thing like tyrion always says "wear it like armor" i wanna see him become a powerhouse type of fighter instead of super quick and agile like it showed aemond being when he was duel criston cole.

[@isaacmartinez7557]

@@aquadonkey. is was being jokey about the bastards of driftmark please excuse me. Agree wholeheartedly with you on Jace and Baela

[@michaelhenry3234]

@@aquadonkey. He can't publicly admit to being Harwin's son, as it's a pretty bad idea for the heir to admit they're a bastard and thus illegitimate. During a succession crisis, no less.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

I guess you could say they Hughmanized the Hammer

[@Gigipretty64]

Dad joke 😂

[@Jon155mt]

Literally! Because I hated his book character, but I was watching this episode like “wait…are they making me actually like him now? Wtf?” 😂

[@lukasmadrid1945]

​@@Jon155mtit makes perfect sense that a lowborn who became very powerful and maybe even wanted to become king, would be looked at terribly in the history books. Im so excited about it

[@Jon155mt]

@@lukasmadrid1945 Yeah ppl keep crying about changes from the book but I’m absolutely loving them so far. Hopefully they do something similar for Ulf. I wouldn’t mind seeing the show change it to where Hugh doesn’t serve the blacks or the greens and just tries to be a man of the people leading a 3rd faction. It would be an interesting twist imo

[@squrler]

Thanks, I hate it 😂

[@MrJethroha]

Tom Glynn-Carney really stands out in every scene, he gets to show so much personality and takes full advantage

[@marymcallister7963]

He's really making me love Aegon as a character. His range is incredible. In ep 1 he was so funny, his comedic timing was impecable. In episode 2 he was absolutely tragic. His performances gave me chills.

[@JayRo72896]

​@@marymcallister7963he was still a bit funny this ep too, when Otto barges in asking the meaning of the ratcatchers, Aegon going "oooooh ... i had them hanged" got a good cackle out of me lmao

[@hillbillypowpow]

​@@JayRo72896 it's really like he can't even expect that his actions might have negative consequences. "oh, I had them hanged." "You'll need your flock, you can have all the sheep back." "It was just harmless fun." He is not singularly vicious or cruel. He can take actions motivated by a range of emotion, but he consistently does not think those actions through to their logical consequences. Hes excellent

[@dreamday988]

He is absolutely amazing! I never thought I would actually like Aegon (i know some details from the books) but holy hell..his performance when he breaks down in tears when Alicent gets into the room kinda makes me wanna hug him

[@MarcellusMaize]

Otto roasting Aegon was very satisfying

[@sebastiaanv]

@@KingKendrickTheGod233has nothing to do with this lmao randomly that into this is weird

[@sebastiaanv]

@@KingKendrickTheGod233oh you are a big troll, nevermind

[@andyhx2]

At that point I was almost feeling sorry for him - he was trying half his life to put Aegon on the throne and now that he's done it, it comes to bite him in the ass. I tihnk he half regrets not putting Rhaenyra on the throne as Viserys would have wished him to - it would have saved him and the realm a lot of trouble.

[@Jon155mt]

Ngl I was 10000% on Aegon’s side there 😂 he was cooking Otto. Like Otto really thought he could just walk out the room all Willy nilly after talking crazy to the king like that lmao. And the acting was goated.

[@marken816]

"And what has Ser Criston Cole done?"

[@Blur041]

Otto remembering viserys and finally kind of acknowledging viserys was needed .

[@defiantaichi]

I thought he just missed how much he could control viserys

[@Argos-xb8ek]

Viserys wasn't mindless Otto knew that everyone kinda forgot Viserys knew alot more than everyone let on.

[@Blur041]

@@defiantaichi now that you said it . I think that's true aswell since viserys rarely questioned otto and otto definitely loved that .

[@Wustenfuchs109]

@@defiantaichi Yes, he misses that, but also he is honest about his qualities that his son simply does not have. Viserys was easier to manipulate, but he did care for the realm, for peace and prosperity. He would not be so petty, rash and unreasonable. Viserys was a rare good king (as good as the setting allows) and he knew his limits, which is why he let others do things they are good at, and did not throw tantrums and saw himself as the smartest, strongest and the best at everything. All of those things are why Otto lamented his death in this instance. He knows that the new king has NO qualities at all, and more importantly he is riddled with flaws. In short, while Otto does care about his legacy and power, he does care about the realm as well, because through that his position is also cemented. He is a true feudal lord - care about the realm, and the realm will keep you in power. New king has no understanding of that - he thinks that him being a king is done deal and that he is almost a god.

[@thomaswillard6267]

I thought he was just pulling the ol' "Think of your predecessor" like he used to with Viserys

[@BR4INR0T_]

the twins killing each other almost had me crying. i felt so bad for them both.

[@Ambu557]

it be better if they gave us more screen time with them ...like if we got to know them more ...

[@SolidMikeP]

Solidified my hate for team green

[@quintus920]

It did have me crying a little bit, but I was also a bit drunk so the thumb was on the scale just a bit.

[@corneliuspildershmidt]

I cried

[@valerogarcon9304]

@@Ambu557facts it could’ve been way more emotional than it was

[@Firmth]

9:53 re the model city, it's also a (fairly heavy handed) metaphor for recklessly smashing in a fit of rage what his father had so painstakingly crafted over many years

[@vili6632]

Viserys didn't craft anything, he just inherited the peace that Jaehaerys made before him

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

​@@vili6632eh, maintaining that in and of itself is a craft of sorts. It's not like new opportunities for conflict didn't arise

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

The king only rarely builds directly, but if he upholds peace and justice, the realm prospers by itself.

[@Firmth]

@@vili6632 that's a deeper analysis than the metaphor was trying to allude to. If course we see it that way, but I doubt viserys or Otto would.

[@Isuream6331]

@@CoRLex-jh5vx Did he do a good job maintaining it though?

[@Ragozin12]

The acting in this episode was top notch.

[@Jon155mt]

You can tell rent was due, and we are grateful for it 😂

[@dvsat12]

Otto went from my most hated to favorite in the span of a roast session.

[@George-um2vc]

Aegon is so trash he makes Otto look like a saint, I felt bad for Otta here, I shouldn’t, but I did, this brat is destroying everything Otta has built on a whim.

[@nikolascsgo]

​@@George-um2vc he put him on the throne and he ate the consequences

[@youdontknowme2913]

​@@George-um2vc it was satisfying to see Otto finally acknowledging viserys, he was devoted to his duty as hand but he never thought of viserys as a good ruler. He finally understands the burden viserys was dealing with all this time. He could have acted just like aegon or daemon, if he wanted. He was the most powerful man in the 7 kingdom but he chose to be humble. He was an idiot, I accept that, but he was also a wise idiot.

[@viniciuspedrosa2405]

​@@George-um2vc Aegon is trash but i like how we can pity this guy, he is weak, pathetic, nobody really loves him. He isn't a monster like Joffrey or Ramsey

[@JBleauOst]

@@viniciuspedrosa2405and a direct result from growing up with a silver spoon and no parents who actually really give a shit about him.

[@miketrujillo3677]

The face of otto realizing what a good king (pliable) he had and being utterly defeated in the face of aegons buffoonerys

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Grandpa Otto is tired of the youngins nonsense

[@annabelstien2851]

Looking forward to his interactions with Daeron.

[@uhhhh_bo]

Having Criston as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and the Hand seems like it may be a little bit of an issue lmao

[@sebastiancespedes5842]

He's probably commanding the royal army on the ground too lol

[@sentientmustache8360]

Nah not really, they just have to make Arryk the new lord comma- oh wait…

[@brunoactis1104]

The greens are fucked

[@p0tanscimm]

To be fair jaimie wasn't too far off doing the same, them 2 do mirror each other in alot of ways

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Wasn't Jaime doing two out of those three?

[@samf.s.7731]

Criston projected and displaced every feeling he had for himself onto Arryk. The deflecting of self blame onto other people enables him to survive without dying of disgust from his shame.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

That scene was RICH. Like a delicious chocolate cake.

[@angrynerdgirl]

You could tell Arryk knew exactly what was happening, too. Like "oh ok, it's THIS kind of day with the boss, fine, I'll go change."

[@merrittanimation7721]

@@angrynerdgirl "I miss Westerling. He never projected his insecurities onto me"

[@KentzHodiono]

Speaking of which what happened to Westerling? I liked his gigachad energy but we haven't got any info to what happened after Edit: Nvm i finished the video

[@neltins5308]

Yup, it shows how evil abusive men project & manipulate, he gaslit Arryk into killing his own brother & a suicide mission twisting reality and making him feel very guilty when he did nothing wrong but Criston Cole is the reason the poor little boy got decapitated banging the king's mother illegally.

[@maxsilva11]

The theme of "being loyal to their abuser" (ie dog and Cheese, Rhaenyra and Daemon) also applies to the idea of the commoners being loyal to the nobility.

[@LarthV]

Unfortunately, that is how powerful people remain powerful far too often…

[@jrlombardi5251]

And Aemond and that sex worker

[@leebarbs7176]

Solid catch

[@jrlombardi5251]

And Aemond and the s*x worker

[@ske_kt2048]

Good take!

[@mamboonthetube7652]

I caught an alt schwift x stream once and he had only nasty things to say about you shift. really cool to see you being the bigger man and shouting out his content too. it's nice to see folks rise above the drama.

[@yaqshanullah]

Aren’t they the same person?

[@cowpoly1564]

I’m just confused because they do sound like the same person

[@cosmic_ghostwolf]

​​@@cowpoly1564 What? No, they're not the same person at all.

[@lostvarius]

@@yaqshanullahentirely different

[@adry3211]

​@cowpoly1564 just watch both creators and you'll know there is no similarity between the two

[@alexking988]

Tom Glynn-Carney and Rhys Ifans killed it this episode, great acting🔥

[@Jon155mt]

The acting is GoT level tbh. Phenomenal job thus far.

[@user-sl1wt1dv4y]

Daeron, the grandson that was promised

[@dtl19]

Is Helaena making the opening credits tapestry? She was too sad/busy to update it this week

[@Firmth]

Really cool how larys doesnt step in until aegon turns his attention to alicent, then he plays his card to spare her. Subtle writing

[@MotherofMunch]

I loved that

[@jamesknott5255]

Interesting. See I didn’t see it as him stepping in to defend Alicent so much as he saw the writing on the wall, so to speak, when Aegon was starting to get accusatory towards everyone on the small council, and so stepped in to shock the situation in letting him know that Blood had been detained.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Larry skin changes into rats to lick Alicents feet while she sleeps.

[@Firmth]

@@jamesknott5255 well yes, I'm saying it wasn't coincidental that he waited until aegon turned his attention to alicent to step in, then aegon never returned to that train of thought.

[@ThatsaRandomName]

@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 It is known.

[@Frank_Hughes]

The realism of watching in between him killing his brother and When falls on his sword is such that it’s disturbing. It removed the idea of romanticism that act that’s often implied when it’s in a book and destroys it. Like you can see in his face the mental space of someone who decided that’s the best option they have and can’t live with what they did. Pretty incredible.

[@Frank_Hughes]

And probably the best episode that hbo has made in the world of ASOIAF.

[@pastychong]

@@Frank_HughesThis is perhaps the most insane comment I have ever seen. The BEST??? Holy fuck how?

[@miketrujillo3677]

I agree with him, this episode was a masterclass in drama.​@@pastychong

[@miketrujillo3677]

I never thought we'd see someone "fall on their sword"

[@pastychong]

@@miketrujillo3677 It was a good episode, but even ignoring GoT for a second, episode 8 of last season was better lol. And with GoT in mind, Baelor, Battle of Blackwater, Rains of Castamere, Laws of Gods and Men, Lion and the Rose, Mountain and the Viper, Watchers on the Wall… I mean HotD is fine but I just can’t fathom how this episode tops any of those, plus many more episodes I didn’t even care to mention.

[@Siptom369]

I think the reason Heleana talks about her son as The Boy and not name him is because she tries to disassociate herself from the horrible situation that her son got murdered

[@marymcallister7963]

It also feels like she's slowly coming to term with it. He's not just "the boy" now, he's "my boy"

[@hillbillypowpow]

And its something that she's had to deal with before it even happened. She may not have fully understood it, but she knew her son would be killed

[@miaallen6161]

I love how when Aegon names Criston as Hand Criston makes the same face Aegon made on drift mark after Aemond's eye is cut out. "Who... me?"

[@maebell7668]

Otto saying he doesn’t want to hear about Alicent’s sins, just like Viserys did with Rhaenyra. And after he had reminisced about Viserys earlier. Ryan Condal I will never hate you

[@WyllBG3]

I like how the Hull brothers see dragons, nobles and beasts,from different perspectives: Alyn saw the destruction of the war and how dragonriders have so much power. Nobles can destroy the common people lives with their wars. Adam sees a flying dragon as a symbol of both power and freedom. Having the Velarion patronage, and by consequence helping the "dragon" queen, could help him stop being a common lowborn with his hands in the mud.

[@TheHellyeahmen]

interesting how in season 1 Jaeherys lives and dies in the first episode and the same happens in season 2

[@realdaggerman105]

Imagine if one of the kids was named Baelon, too.

[@nont18411]

It’s a shame that the Jaeharys we had in GoT didn’t stay dead. In fact he returned as an embarrassment who had limited dialogues and screeched at a dragon for no reason.

[@tysmosisjones]

@@nont18411fake news shut up

[@CorrectionUnknown]

​@@nont18411 Aemon* ;)

[@hetty9262]

the main difference between hotd and got for me has been the use of violence and sex as narrative tools. nothing feels gratuitous and always feels like it’s being used to meaningfully develop characterization/plot. really appreciate the change

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

It can be cringe,like it's just trying too hard to be adult. It's kinda like alcohol once your 21. It's not special and actually kinda lame

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Agreed. 100%. Got added in lots of sex stuff just to make it spicy. They marketed the show as soft core prawn drama TV. Ryan gets it though. Gratuity is extreme in modern media, using sex properly in a story is tough and he’s nailing it. The brothel scene we get 1 solid boob shot and one solid butt shot then it’s all naked skeleton Aemond having mommy issues 😂 nothing explicit with Crispy Cream and Alicent. It’s much much better than GoT on that.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

GoT first episode adds in Tyrion getting a toppy in the brothel. In the book, Tyrion does a backflip and reads books all night.

[@dreamday988]

GOT definitely had A LOT of unnecessary sex bs..💀 i do get why they did it tho, and they did tone it down in later seasons but HOTD definitely uses sex scenes in way more useful way for the story

[@hetty9262]

@@dreamday988 yeah! same with the violence. not showing aegon graphically beating blood to death or the actual child beheading itself almost feels like the writers refusing to lean on violence for the sake of violence. it makes erryks graphic suicide and the violence we DO see all the more visceral and heavier imo

[@THE_BLOOD_MAN]

The thing I find most interesting is that Larys DEFINITELY was suggesting to Aegon that he be had his hand. He just happened to do it to the most politically inept person in the family, so he Aegon just picked whoever was nearest to him that he happened to like at the time. This is going to stir up some shit between Criston and Larys. Larys is going to try and blackmail Criston with his and Allicent's relationship, but do you remember what Criston did to the last guy that tried to blackmail him over a sinful relationship? He got his head smashed inside out at a wedding.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

He gonna beat ol boy with his own club foot. He gon fold that fool!

[@crumdogy]

I might be alone in this, but I don’t think Larys wants to be Hand at all. It feels like way too much of an out-in-the-open position for someone whose strength has been currying favors and negotiating one on one with people in the background.

[@edsp666]

Otto: schemes to put aegon on the throne Otto: knows aegon isnt loved and gets abused (does nothing, adds to it) Otto: knows aegon takes his hurt out on others (does nothing) Otto: knows aegon doesnt want to rule (doesnt care) Otto: knows aegon knows nothing about ruling (doesnt teach him anything) Otto: forces a grieving and angry aegon to parade his freshly dead son when he doesnt want to Otto: insults aegon Aegon: fires him Otto: surprised pikachu face

[@Isuream6331]

“Ignoring my daughter’s problems worked great for my daughter and I’m certain it will work great for my grandson as well!”

[@adaezez8378]

@@Isuream6331😂😂😂

[@dylanchouinard6141]

For a guy who constantly talks about thinking long term this was a very short sighted plan 😂

[@thecarter8700]

Aegon has parents

[@Kay-kg6ny]

​@@thecarter8700who both hated him and managed to abandon him while still living in the same house full time. It's almost impressive TBH 😂

[@RisitasKEKW]

Innocent Rat Catchers: "man I’m in the wrong business 😂"

[@stevetutu749]

😂

[@stillatin]

Rats: "man we gonna be eating tonight!"

[@WAH2.0]

The rats: "cheese is back on the menu boys!"

[@ChellTahs]

@@WAH2.0😅

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

That's like saying an innocent nazi. Undermines the importance of rodent suffrage.

[@samcresp5440]

It’s been bothering me how much the line “the mother grieves, while the queen shirks her duty” is still following through this season. Alicent shirking her duty with Criston as Haeleana ran with her daughter for dear life. Haeleana serving her only real purpose and duty - being paraded through the city as the brood mare she’s been treated as, to show off her grief as her duty. It keeps happening, and I love it. The great writing is going to be stuck in my brain for a long time to come.

[@aerynnkh]

the acting was always on point but in this episode, it was on another level. was incredibly emotional for the whole hour. Otto and Aegon stood out for me, the twins fighting was also absolutely heartbreaking

[@ericscarface]

For the record this was spoiled in 1996 - Game of Thrones-Chapter 8 Bran ii. Bran literally spoiled this fight for all the readers 28 years ago.😮

[@miketrujillo3677]

I'm not tryna be this guy but all of that info is learned by bran from a secondary partial source from 170 years ago, the big things are set in stone, but motivations are a mystery to history and certain things were covered up or "make up"ified to better portray certain people

[@ericscarface]

@@miketrujillo3677 ????

[@fofi444]

12:38 there’s a really great line in succession that i feel applies to a lot of the relationships on hotd (relating to the assessment you made about cheese and his dog) “He never saw anything he loved that he didn't want to kick it just to see if it would still come back.”

[@iliaponomarev1624]

What I liked about Aerrykbowl is that I lost track on who is who. I was even wondering if the extra Kingsguard was gonna murder the survivor no matter who the survivor says he is, just to be sure.

[@DAFR2849]

“Alicent is a good mother” she’d rather comfort Criston in bed than her own children 💀

[@MenwithHill]

She doesn't know how to comfort her kids, but she sure knows how to comfort Criston.

[@danielsimon4678]

@@MenwithHillshe only knows how Criston can comfort her.

[@setarehshm1]

@@MenwithHillshe knew how to comfort viserys after his wife’s death 😒

[@vandanacasm]

Just finished the episode and came here and saw this comment😂

[@sarah07290]

​@@setarehshm1 Be serious. She was ordered by her father as a teenager to spend time with a middle aged man. Alicent didn't offer him comfort, Viserys took his comfort.

[@TheHonoredMadman]

I like that Alyn is the grizzled more reserved one of the two, Addam seeking glory is somewhat fitting, but i think they swapped the ages because in the show Alyn looks older than addam.

[@thecocomastiux3655]

I feel they are switched in every way from how they are described in the book. Lets see if they pull this change off, but I can see Alyns actor deserving "loyal" and Addams being the next Seasnake way more.

[@idawg7332]

@@thecocomastiux3655 I'm just glad they didn't cut addam completely, I was afraid they'd replace him with laenor

[@iliaponomarev1624]

Otto's "I don't wanna hear it" sounded like it actually meant "I really don't want to know anything in case I'm under trial or in dungeons with Larys".

[@temi1355]

Sure it did

[@miaallen6161]

FR. very reminiscent of Tywin completely brushing Cersei off when she was trying to tell him the truth of Jaime and her.. even if out of spite in that instance. They don't want their daughters to have committed such acts but they recognize once the deed is done its done and its better to pretend it never happened and anyone alleging that it did is a traitor to preserve their image and position. I love the hypocrisy though because Rhaenyra was this charlatan for the very same things. Sex outside of marriage AND covering it up?! The horror.. but not Alicent has no choice but to recognize that the system itself that represses her desires and invalidates her autonomy in favor of allowing highlands and common folk alike to behave in the same way with no consequence, is broken. And that owning up to falling short of its biased unrealistic standards is not an act of moral superiority or virtue, but of stupidity. Why allow yourself to be punished for committing acts that shouldn't be a crime in the first place?

[@AasiyahMuhammed_777]

@@miaallen6161that kind of behavior is not harmless.

[@SimulacraMan]

I took it as an “I love you” albeit in a twisted calculating way that is unique to Otto. Kind of like Harwin’s dad and viserys turning a blind eye to their kids. Likewise, it could serve as another example of how the Alicante’s self righteousness is a veneer. Shes just like Rhaenyra, at least as far as the things Alicent didn’t like about Rhaneyra goes, such as her sexual and relational liberty compared to Alicent’s own.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

@@temi1355to me it did, he didn’t do it cause he hates Alicent. He loves his daughter tremendously, but he’s been playing high level politics for half a century…he has to be careful about what he knows. Alicent being honest with her father could have repercussions for the 2 of them.

[@robinvik1]

Otto: "CAN YOU PLEASE JUST BE NORMAL?! Aegon: "I'm gonna make Criston the hand of the king!"

[@alexthuene2806]

i don't really...understand the comments that are calling these past two episodes "boring". it's beautiful, slow, bloody, tender, horrific, all while being tightly wrote and impeccably performed.

[@its-tinyavocado]

There are only 8 episodes, and they have been talking about war for last 4 episodes counting from last season, so yeah it makes full sense to me when people want some action instead of random common folks and sailors problems scenes.

[@glispie]

If your unga bunga brain needs constant big battles, then Marvel movies are probably more your speed. This is just great story telling

[@TheHonoredMadman]

Damn I can't believe they got Cheese. That poor dog.

[@ClueFinderDirtDigger]

He kicked his dog tho 😔 poor pup deserves a better life anyway

[@COWHATE]

It was sad but that dog is better off now

[@mkultrajos]

Futurama flashbacks 😢

[@EgoJinpachi_]

insolent pup

[@mbglosser]

It’s ironic since Cheese from the Wire killed his dog

[@iwald0]

I loved this episode so much, the scenes were amazing, cinematography was beautiful and the dialogue oh so crisp. I want more episodes like this honestly

[@richafk95]

To think it could have all been avoided if Erryk or Arryk had just shaved

[@taytayqueen7024]

It was heart wrenching watching Halaena. Literally had to pause a few times. Very painful.

[@thecoolestfaisal]

​@@George-um2vc Tbf, Aegon was also forced into the marriage and is clearly still processing the grief. He probably blames her to some extent.

[@Jon155mt]

It’s time to start a dialogue. The Greens are absolutely CARRYING this season!

[@edsp666]

​​@@George-um2vc none of the greens know how to comfort each other, its a horrible cycle...did you listen to alt shift x in this video? He mentions it multiple times. Aegon is still horrible but it would have been out of character for him to comfort her, just as alicent not comforting him when he was crying at the end, and her not comforting helaena, and otto not comforting alicent is in character for all of them. They dont know how to, its not been shown to any of them from any of them.

[@Kingedwardiii2003]

@@George-um2vcbro if I had to marry my sister I wouldn’t be the most romantic person towards her either I’d do anything to remind myself I’m not in a forced marriage with my damn sister

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Does she actually have the tism? Because if she doesn’t, the writers and the actress need more recognition. It feels so natural 😂

[@nicholkola9975]

I swear seeing the funeral carriage get stuck had me thinking the kids body was going to fall and his head would roll off. The show runners threatened to make it worse.

[@walker1tnranger]

That final scene of Alicent and Criston had me crying of laughter

[@staceyrose5821]

Criston is so not sexy anymore... can't remember back that far. Oh yeah. The turney, episode 1... after that he lost his appeal quite quickly imho. He's disgraceful and dare I say, a pus*y.

[@sofiav7071]

​@@KingKendrickTheGod233 shhhh

[@thenickfoxx]

She wants to hate him so bad but she just can't get enough of that lord commander pp

[@rebruisinginart2419]

@@KingKendrickTheGod233 i love kendrick but what the fuck does he have to do with this

[@Hana9916]

​@@rebruisinginart2419 It's a bot

[@victoriagill1588]

Couple of thoughts... The fascinated choice to show Alicent's physical grief/guilt mimicking Rhaynera's, whilst in labour, post Luc death. Her body language at the start of the episode was leaning over a table deep breathing and rocking, then pacing about with her hands on her lower back and focusing, mentally, internally. Some really fascinating mirroring and linking of the two characters by showing their physical grief as the same, even though one was in actual premature labour. The depiction of Heleana suffering as an autistic woman; completely overwhelmed, over stimulated, and suffering panic attacks trying to withdraw and crawl out of the wagon was one of the best depictions of autism in a long time. I was crawling over the back of the couch triggered and mimicking her. ❤

[@berkeozdemir4098]

"I have dared .. and I find it stimulating, hıhıhı" I love Tom so much, he might surpass Jack Gleeson as THE asshole king actor by the end of the show

[@miketrujillo3677]

That line was ridiculously hard for a character I initially thought to be a total joke

[@LiamPowelluuu2]

Aegon is nowhere near as hateable as Joffrey. Aegon is at least funny sometimes.

[@jacklang3314]

@@miketrujillo3677 he get's a banger in season 4 as well.

[@dudeweedlmao8519]

​@@LiamPowelluuu2what, joffrey is hilarious

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

Aegon somehow is more mature and compassionate than Jeoffry. At least Aegon loved his son and heir…

[@BionicleSaurus]

This episode slapped. Rhys Ifans is my new religion.

[@lee.burnett]

He's SO GOOD

[@elizabethrose9432]

Rhys Ifans BROUGHT IT this episode.

[@ShubertReads]

#TeamSmallfolk

[@TheHellyeahmen]

bold of you to pick the losing side

[@thequimsnaim]

So true Shubert

[@johnmandel7123]

Based

[@jessjess23brooks89]

Only good take.

[@DAFR2849]

#TeamBlack

[@tierk4328]

I like the idea that Arryk was the one who fell on his sword after killing his brother. During their fight, he realised how much the conflict had taken from him. So he apologised to Rhanerya and took his life for going against his vow to protect the Queen.

[@mikeboi1587]

Criston was A Bed, but Aemond was A Bed the whole episode. Meanwhile Rhaenyra was attacked while she was A Bed in Dragonstone, coincidence, I think not!

[@artyjnrii]

If Tyrek Lannister can be a horse, then Criston can be a bed

[@iliaponomarev1624]

Jace and Baela seem to be into each other. Which is good, I guess? It's not that they are too close relatives, by Targ standards they are basically unrelated...

[@HisameArtwork]

uf yeah, we that desperate for a functioning non incestious relationship. we'll take two minors having a civilized conversation and only being 1st cousins.

[@iliaponomarev1624]

@@HisameArtwork They aren't really first cousins, since Laenor isn't Jace's father. But Jace's mom is related to both Baela's mom and dad in multiple ways.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

@@iliaponomarev1624second cousins? Yeah with this genetic make up, this works out in real life too. You wanna go outside 1st cousins for partners to avoid genetic complications. Second cousins are usually very low chance of mutation.

[@misanthropicservitorofmars2116]

@@iliaponomarev1624you’d be amazed how many people married their cousins irl

[@iliaponomarev1624]

@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 Technically, they are probably second cousins, but in a Targaryen family Mobius band, it's pretty complicated. Let's say they both have a healthy dose of Jaehaerys and Alysanne in them.

[@YodaOnABender]

“My new hand will be an iron fist” goes ridiculously hard

[@Victori.A1]

40:10 Rhaenyra IS protective of her. That's why she told her to stay high and keep her distance! The greens wouldn't go after her! The same way Blood & Cheese didn't go after Helaena's daughter. Jace is heir, so unfortunately he's worth more and more vulnerable to the greens.

[@lindenshepherd6085]

Not to mention Jace champing at the bit for some vengeance. If he spotted Vhagar or Aemond, who knows if he could keep a cool head? Baela seems to be more levelheaded than her fiancé, and eager to please Rhaenyra and Rhaenys instead of proving herself to Daemon like she used to want to. It’s kinda cool how they’ve got maiden-mother-crone imagery and dynamics all throughout this show.

[@cuddleee]

I loved that during their fight you couldn't tell which twin was which. Because it didn't matter. It doesn't matter which side you're on, it results in the same pain and death. I'd like to think it was Arryck who apologized to Rhaenyra, understanding how meaningless all this violence is.

[@bonniebree187]

I love the through lines of the scenes for Baela/Jace, Aemond/Sylvie, and Hugh. The Baela/Jace scene concludes with Jace saying he misses Luke and in the next scene Aemond admits his remorse for killing Luke to Sylvie. She concludes that scene by telling Aemond the actions of angry princes affect the smallfolk like her, and then we transition to Hugh's situation as one of the struggling smallfolk. Great use of runtime and pacing in service of character building and plot *Chef's kiss*

[@jpa5038]

Here's why Criston Cole's plan to send Arryk to infiltrate Dragonstone was a dumb plan from the word go. How many Queen's Guard does Rhaenyra have? Three. So when Arryk shows up at Dragonstone and worms his way into the castle to get to Rhaenyra, there's a one in three chance that the Queen's Guard by her side at any given moment is Erryk. You're also sending one of your own King's guard (of which Team Green only has four) to certain death. Good luck getting more warriors to enter into service when you're on record throwing their lives away. Also Arryk does not know anything about Dragonstone so him managing to spot Rhaenyra while initially avoiding his brother is nothing more than dumb luck. The plan relies entirely on dumb luck.

[@jonnywolFIFA]

I never interpreted it as a real plan. I thought quite clearly it was a death sentence. Shift basically says as much in saying that even if it did work he'd have been fucked. The logical existence is that it's not a plot, it's an act of cruelty. Its metaphorical existence of the divided self and its symmetry with the Targaryen's own self-immolation is much more interesting than debating the plot.

[@iliaponomarev1624]

My head canon is that Harrold Westerling is in Lys serving as a Kingsguard to some descendant of Runaway Serra

[@Swoost]

Funniest moment in this stream: "Aemond reminded me of baby Voldemort" "...Yes."

[@L.PohodaNowocz]

You gotta give it to Blacks over Greens, they know how to hold each other. Sometimes in hug, sometimes by throat, but at least they try!

[@seanbrittain5244]

These livestreams after a great GOT/HOTD episode is one of the joys in my life. I love listening to everyone's thoughts and then at some point falling asleep to it, lol.

[@David-yy9kl]

Everyone knew a Criston in college!

[@illiafilatov5521]

Finally we get something else then insane ramblings about winds of winter to talk about

[@tristenjacob6081]

😂

[@vandanacasm]

I visibly gasped when i saw aegon smashing the model city...

[@DisasterDIYist]

Somehow the two things that upset me the most are : The model city being destroyed The poor doggo looking rough and malnourished

[@Carnage-Asadas]

Visibly lol

[@Orangefan77]

But not audibly?

[@iamnotagoose]

Daeron confirmed let’s gooooo

[@Leakampff]

I love that you really cannot fully determine which twin died in the fight. There are clues that make you sway one way or the other but I think you can apply the reasons to both each time. The "you parted us" moment obviously suggests it's Arryk talking to Erryk since Erryk is the one that left, but you could argue that Arryk parted them too by NOT leaving, and by siding with the greens. The winner calling Rhaenyra "your grace" suggests its Erryk that won, but even if Arryk thinks Rhaenyra is not the Queen, he would refer to a princess as "your grace" too, and he IS somewhat honourable. The "forgive me" moment reads initially I feel as Erryk apologising for killing himself right there, and perhaps for letting Rhaenyra be so close to danger in the first place. But you could also argue that the "forgive me" is Arryk apologising for not siding with Rhaenyra in the first place, and siding with the greens, and also killing Erryk. So I find it interesting to consider that it was actually Arryk that survived. But again, who knows. (I do like the idea that IF Erryk won, it was because he was fighting for something he believes in, whereas Arryk would've been fighting reluctantly, forced into it)

[@remsan03]

I've lost all respect for Alicent for going back to Cole. What was all those, "I've sinned" confessions? Her grandson died in part because of her riding the Kingsguard. All those lighting the candles in the Sept, and wearing the Seven pointed Star were meaningless. But then again, we all can be guilty of religious hypocrisy.

[@fimmywa]

41:15 HOUSE CELTIGAR MENTIONED 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[@iliaponomarev1624]

Laenor might as well be dead. He went to be a sellsword. And a normal state of a sellsword after 6 years of service is a dead sellsword.

[@ThePointlessBox_]

My headcanon is that in a comedic turn of irony, the ship he escaped on capsized and he drowned on the same day he left

[@buffysummers7887]

right, there's so many ways to die in this world. He could have been crushed in a city riot, drowned in an abrupt sea storm, been randomly hate crimed, drank himself to death one night, ticked off a random bravo, failed to pay debts, fallen off a horse, had a sliver get infected....lots of ways that Seasmoke could end up flying back home

[@Isuream6331]

If he doesn’t show up again, all we can assume is that he did die offscreen, which makes his survival just kinda meaningless.

[@thenobletaco4232]

Otto leaving has the same feeling as when Tywin was killed in Got. The only real adult is gone and now everything is gonna go to shit.

[@jakeconan5132]

“Death begets death begets death” Love this quote from the Red Rising series (GoT in space). It sums up the whole sequence perfectly. Death and violence will keep repeating until all the warring parties have killed each other off. Those who have read Fire and Blood will understand

[@Cruelrevolter]

Spoiler though in the end Aegon the younger becomes king and the blacks with all the loss wins the game of thrones

[@willson1908]

@@Cruelrevolter No one wins the dance. That is the whole point of the story.

[@Cruelrevolter]

@@FringeSpectre tbh I haven't read the books I just know how things will turn out

[@Lord_Zone_]

I thought Aegon was crying because Otto told him Viserys didn’t actually want him to be king

[@Jaduprune77]

I took the Mysaria and Rhaenyra “how did you got that scar” scene as Rhaenyra realizing Daemon was also violent to Mysaria. It seems like they both recognize and went through the same struggle

[@alexissandusky]

I didn't think of that. I just assumed slave collar scar. that's a really grim possibility.

[@maartenkuvener]

2.42 hours and I have no problem whatsoever listening to all your insights for that long. Well done mate, love your videos! ❤

[@SergentJConn]

"Dad loves his 40k miniatures more than his son" 😂 You are the best Alt Shift X!

[@diogenesfinewines]

The symbolism with Aegon smashing the Valyria model is so great. My interpretation was that not only is Aegon neglecting his legitimacy, he is also destroying the realm that his father spent a lifetime building and trying to stabilize.

[@neitze2604]

He kicked the dog so it didn't follow them on what was likely to be a suicide mission, no? How else do you convince a loyal pet whom one takes everywhere that this is dangerous? I took the kick to be a lesser of two evils, assuming he couldn't command those instructions verbally.

[@LiamPowelluuu2]

This is incredible cope for a shitty action. He kicked the dog because he's a prick, it isn't deeper than that.

[@patrickWWW]

@@LiamPowelluuu2its not really a cope lol. Thats what happened, he kicked the dog so it would leave and as the OP said it likely saved the dogs life

[@Sui_Generis0]

Exactly my thoughts

[@incanusolorin2607]

No, man. It was just a kick the dog momen (you know, when writers make a character do something cruel for no apparent gain, just to demonstrate to the audience that they are a bad person). It's kinda funny that they literally had him kick a dog though 😂

[@Jon155mt]

Yall tryna convince us that a mf who willingly beheads a child wouldn’t also just kick a dog? Lmao the cope is crazy ngl

[@Decade-c9k]

"One soul with two bodies" is strangely reminiscent of Jaime and Cersei.

[@ashW110]

You said, it was the Seasmoke flying within the blockade area. Wouldn't it be Baela on Moondancer patrolling the blockade as ordered by Rhaenyra.

[@DarksideGmss0513]

That's not moondancers colors. Moondancer is a light green color. Seasmoke is more white/gray.

[@ashW110]

@@DarksideGmss0513 Hey, true there is a visible difference in their colour, however, at such a distance it would be difficult to distinguish the difference of those particular colours. Of course I am probably wrong and it is in fact the Seasmoke because Alt shit obviously knows something I don't.

[@ItsPortu]

I finded the funeral scene quite interesting when the greens were dressed in black. Black used as a mourning color is nothing new, but the presence of green was close to nothing, as if the greens are losing the conflinct. And we see later in the episode how the greens are destroying themselves from the inside. Might be farfeched, but here's another color theory used as foreshadowing.

[@jrlombardi5251]

They were dressed in dark green, which is what they have always done for grief, they did the same on Laena's funeral.

[@Tyranidus7]

I don't think it was Erryk that won, I thought it was Arryk. I was pretty sure Erryk was the one that gets sliced on the leg, Arryk uses the leg wound to get out of the choke hold, and then runs his brother Erryk through. And then in his sadness, Arryk gave up on his assassination quest and killed himself. Which I think makes it even more tragic. Maybe I missed something in the blocking of that sequence but I have watched it twice now, really seems to me that it was the assassin Arryk wins the fight but kills himself anyway.

[@wrigleyishome4764]

Erryk did win because he called Rhaenyra "your grace". I don't think Arryk would do that. Also, on the closed captions it says Erryk.

[@Bargadiel]

​​@@wrigleyishome4764i think it was an error. As far as the choreography is concerned, Erryk is who died. I re-watched the scene about 10 times.

[@MoonSystem-They-It]

We personally take it as honestly being either twin, because it works for both of them. Neither of them could live with having killed the other in that position.

[@stillatin]

Nah, I thought so as well but then rewatched it

[@brettpennington6393]

@@Bargadielyeah Erryk is the one one died first

[@latefines1605]

I started another reread of ASOIAF (what else am I gonna do until Winds?) and Criston keeps making me think of Ned Stark’s quote re: oathbreakers. “No man is more dangerous. The deserter knows his life is forfeit if he is taken, so he will not flinch from any crime, no matter how vile.”

[@thomaswillard6267]

Sylvie looks A LOT like Alicent, and the dancer that looks like Helaena has me thinking that the 'Brothel Queens' will turn out to be them mistaken for Alicent and Helaena.

[@Akazainul]

I love the classic which one is which trope when two clones (or in this case twins) fight each other and another person comes to help

[@Sssaid17]

Aegon destroying the model could also mean that he is destroying the peace that Viserys had built.

[@ThePointlessBox_]

What peace has viserys built? He took great care putting together a very VERY big powder keg of war and lit the fuse before dying. The war is mostly his fault

[@youdontknowme2913]

​@@ThePointlessBox_ehh I disagree, he did his best. I rather respect what viserys did, he was well fleshed out character and his decisions and motivations were understanding. Tho he was weak and guilt ridden after his wife's death. And it seems most of his decisions came from that guilt part of him.

[@youdontknowme2913]

​@@ThePointlessBox_ if there's some one to blame is raenyra and alicent. Raenyrha absolutely failed in swaying people to her side, her infidelity didn't help, plus being women, she should have tried harder in politics than just leaving it all and going to dragon stone. Alicent failed by seeing raenyrha as nothing but an enemy, she was so delusional and vindictive towards raenyrha that she didn't see reasons, not even marrying halena and lucerys. Now shit is hitting the fan.

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

We all knew that model was gonna get it.

[@arthur99mun]

​@@ThePointlessBox_yep, exactly. Viserys didnt build any peace, Jahaerys did. Viserys didnt have to deal with anything besides the war on the stepstones. Im not saying he was an awful king, but his legacy is basically this war because he was unable to raise his family right.

[@lonesometroll621]

The dog isnt sad because Cheese is dead, but he's now unemployed and all the other rat catchers are dead so no one will hire him again

[@theBuilder10000]

Everyone saying Blood could have identified Cheese but like, so could Helaena.

[@leebarbs7176]

lmao love that no one thought of this 😂

[@BoadieBroadus3211]

God damn it all I can think now is “I wish they all had fidget spinners” 😂😂😂

[@ricebix]

39:24 Blood says " 'Son for a Son' He said." What I got from Daemon when he was being asked about it by Rhaenyra is that he did say "Son for a son" but what he probably really meant was "you can take Aegon if you can't find Aemond"

[@voltairethegoldflame9280]

How has no one else said this?? This is exactly what I think happened! It makes so much sense that he'd INTEND it to mean Aegon, while they INTERPRETED it as any royal son.

[@emilrogengellschwaner3555]

Has the hand of the king pin ever not been thrown on the ground?

[@dorionlightbourne6664]

DAERON MENTION HYPE

[@TheTonyEntertainment]

Same

[@Jon155mt]

We back outside baby!

[@FiftiesDad]

⁠cool to see the twins finally battle. If you read the books, they are legendary to GoT characters and mentioned a bunch of times. great to see their story play out

[@hardikchoubey8232]

Daeron Targaryen, the Prince that was Promised!

[@tessallations378]

so nice to hear you smiling while talking again. got is back ⚔️