House of the Dragon Season 2 Episode 4 Discussion w/ Fantasy Haven

[@thelonelybolter8245]

12:49 When the three king's guard go to leave the room, and the two walk into each other - I died. Agreed, this season's humor is incredible.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

It's subtle but it's there and I'm glad they found the natural humor in the moments

[@JustforNow-ty5zt]

There’s something very cinematic about a live stream beginning with the words “Are you live?”

[@jj947]

The gods have yet to make a stream that’s absolutely immune from audio issues, your grace

[@idontuploadanym0re]

@@jj947the internet is a fickle lord, much like the Late Lord Haven

[@morganhunt8051]

I loved Aegon’s housecat energy as he pushed that pitcher off the table. Also reminded me of him saying “I have dared. I found it stimulating”

[@anorangetabby]

Omg, I had the same thought! 😂 Also, when he was playing with the ball in council😂

[@yogadork_namaste]

Aegon is ser pounce confirmed

[@nevaehaho61]

Sunfyre and Aegon’s bond reminds me of Rhaena and Dreamfyre and how Rhaena became a more confident person through her dragon bond but where Dreamfyre gave Rhaena assertiveness Sunfyre softens Aegon. I think that’s really sweet and Sunfyre is my new favorite dragon

[@anorangetabby]

Sunfyre is such a sweet, good boy, and Aegon took him to fight dragons three times his age. 😢 WTF Aegon?! He's the only creature who loves you!

[@adry3211]

​@anorangetabby Tbf Aegon wasn't aware of the trap that Cole had laid to bait in Rhaenys. To Aegon, he probably just thought that he was gonna help his men siege Rook's Rest, not engage in dragon-combat.

[@Kriosaivak]

“Putting your frat mates on the Kingsguard.” How dare you not refer to the Aegoons by their proper title?

[@alexiavya722]

I have been yelling since the release of the first season that they are building space for character change and that all of the characters will fill the space the books portray them as when we get into the actual war itself.

[@jannikgotpanick1469]

Me too, media literacy is dead

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@alexiavya722 They have been actively assassinating characters left and right. They turned Aemond into the biggest idiot in Westerosi history by having him actively try to kill a dragon that is on his side in front of his own army and now Vhagar stands alone outnumbered at least 4 to 1.

[@alexiavya722]

@@masterplokoon8803 You are part of the people I am yelling at.

[@JayRo72896]

​@@masterplokoon8803 ya know in the book it's heavily implied he did the same thing, right? he's a pretty fuckin bad guy in the source material, and making him the presumptive heir after Jaehaerys dies makes this make a lot more sense either way. Not sure who's being assassinated here

[@masterplokoon8803]

​​@@JayRo72896 Maelor was Thanos snapped out of existance. And Aemond was evil against his enemies, not brothers. And he was rash and brutal, but not this idiotic.

[@aegorbittersteel2154]

Muppet Tully

[@nevaehaho61]

I definitely thought of Nettles when I saw the black ram for mild spoilers: Daemon later watches as Nettles sacrifices a black ram to Sheepstealer, kind of implying Nettles might’ve taught him or shown him some blood magic

[@ianmcgregor576]

48:55 you’re telling me Jace is supposed to be 15?? No shot

[@incoherentrambling3139]

Probably the same way Robb was “15”

[@baron6588]

He is likely aged up just a little bit, around 16 in the show.

[@baron6588]

@@incoherentrambling3139 They aged up Robb in the show, he is around 17.

[@nont18411]

37:37 It’s Richard III and the only reason Richard is known as a bad guy was because Richard was the last Plantegenet while Shakespeare was a Tudor propagandist. He worked for the usurpers.

[@Rinendel]

Richard III stans unite

[@notribadsvault]

There’s also the small issue of the fact that he almost certainly murdered his nephews.

[@voltairethegoldflame9280]

Propaganda!!! ​@@notribadsvault

[@yogadork_namaste]

​@@voltairethegoldflame9280who do YOU think killed the young princes?

[@BatFlash52]

I really like the Muppet Tullys, the Dance of Dragons is a really dark story, especially at the end, so I’ll take any opportunity to have a Laugh and the Tullys in GOT were Muppets so it’s appropriate. Also Quinn is right, GOT is a dark story but funny names, cough Dickon Manwoody cough, have always been used to lighten the mood. I hope Kermit 🐸 shows up, because he is one of the Lads! But if he doesn’t who should replace him?

[@Magnus1964]

There are a couple of scenes in ASOIAF where I swear the entire Justice League International shows up, never mind the Muppets. They don’t fly in, but the banners have sigils including Black Canaries, Green Arrows, Blue Beetles, Red Tornadoes, etc… I think Brienne has an old shield repainted for her use that previously had an image suspiciously similar to Batman’s symbol. George is a comics fan from way back. For all I know, he may have some Avengers (Stark?) planted throughout the tale…

[@gokbay3057]

"Like Batman's symbol" That's House Lothson, predeccessors to House Whent (who also have a bat sigil but slightly different than Lothsons). Danelle Lothson is the ASOIAF version of Elizabeth Bathory.

[@masterplokoon8803]

If I was Aegon I would name Jaehaera heir just to crush Aemond's hopes ans dreams after the little stunt he pulled. I would rather be a hypocrite than reward the guy who backstabbed me with the throne.

[@bartonarchuleta204]

It’s a do or die situation. He would either need to kill aemond and name daeron. Or abdicate and let aemond take over. Wounding aemond is really stupid he’s more powerful politically and physically with vaghar

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@bartonarchuleta204 and what would Aemond do? Switch sides to Rhaenyra? He killed Luke, he knows his only way to survive is for a green victory, he has to fight for the greens regardless.

[@carastone3473]

Not only did they bring Laena into that scene, but it was the younger version of her that he danced with at Rhaenyra & Laenor’s wedding.

[@fayedunaway8]

The people who are complaining about the changes to the battle don't understand how much more sense it makes that Aegon is alive from this battle. In the books when Meleys and Sunfyre were entangled and Vhagar falls on them. That should have killed both Sunfyre and Aegon. At the very least it should have killed Aegon. But this sequence is so much better where Sunfyre falls from the dragon fire and you can see in that moment when he is falling he tries his damnest hard to not crush Aegon. The way he cradled him around was so beautiful then in the books where Aegon actually fell from the sky and landed on himself. This seemed more logical than the plot armour George RR Martin gave Aegon from the books and it also gives such meaningful power to Sunfyre's bond with Aegon.

[@frankvandorp2059]

In this case, I absolutely like the change, because it was kind of a plothole for the greens to needlessly risk Aegon on a mission that Aemond was perfectly capable of handling alone. Why take that risk? Aegon's involvement being unplanned and the result of an impulsive decision by Aegon himself neatly solves that issue.

[@fayedunaway8]

@@frankvandorp2059 i always interpreted the involvement of Aegon and Sunfyre as his plan with Cole. He is the leader of the greens obviously. So whatever he says will happen. And it was clear in the books that Vhagar could not have handled Meleys alone.

[@bobjoemac1]

Vheagar seems to be less comically large in the books. So they probably needed both dragons to take down Rheanys​@@frankvandorp2059

[@Heavenly9999]

I feel like Rhaenys didn't flee because she knew she couldn't escape Vhagar. In the season 1 finale Luke couldn't escape Vhagar in much more advantageous terrain with a much smaller faster dragon. And as you said she also had the chance to kill both the king and the heir in the FIRST BATTLE of the war basically ending it immediately with minimal destruction even if she dies.

[@frankvandorp2059]

Luke couldn't escape Vhagar due to the storm, which caused much more trouble for his smaller dragon than it did for Vhagar. I think that's even mentioned in the book.

[@kvothethebloodless3361]

Awesome stuff guys thank you for the amazing content!

[@anorangetabby]

I love Haven's muppet Kermit voice. It makes me smile every time. 😺

[@jacksparrow9227]

Tully's should have red hair

[@hillbillypowpow]

Didn't that come from the Whents?

[@jacksparrow9227]

@@hillbillypowpow I just want them all to be unless the Seed is Strong from Baratheons, Martells or Starks

[@TrajGreekFire]

​@@jacksparrow9227it's book accurate that Tullies before Whents were not redheads

[@jacksparrow9227]

@@TrajGreekFire I can't even find where they married in the wiki, also for forever I thought Catelyn and the other 2 were somehow related to the Mad Danelle

[@notribadsvault]

Ya but they didn’t in GOT either, in fact it’s kinda funny that only Sansa had red hair when all the kids save Jon and Arya looked like their mom

[@Mink-yu8nu]

Every time Measter Geradys speaks, I have to resist the urge to shout "Parklife!".

[@colbyadamski8139]

“Why can’t this be for a throne alone?” Idk because that’s like one of the biggest themes of asoiaf? The horrors and senselessness of war?

[@Morfe02]

Daemon with Aemond cosplay is like any fusion of dragonball lmao

[@Jonjzi]

Saint Elmo's Fire actually causes the name "Elmo" to be most appropriate in a medieval context.

[@colbyadamski8139]

No?

[@Jonjzi]

@@colbyadamski8139 why not?

[@idontuploadanym0re]

my fav part of the episode wasn’t the battle, but the harrenhal scenes. old gods magic and trippy visuals? my kind of stuff fr

[@idontuploadanym0re]

7:50 if we see a flayed man or a golden lion next episode….

[@eren__morwen5947]

Aegon is the best character in the series

[@yogadork_namaste]

Hes a horrid rapist ' but the actor makes him so compelling! I love all his screen time.

[@rajon94]

Spoiler Question: Would it "break" the story or plot if they were to have the Black's take Kings Landing in the season finale? And then move the Battle of the Gullet to after that. Since it'll be in season 3 anyway

[@baron6588]

@@rajon94 Yeah they could make it work

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@rajon94I understand the feeling since I don't want Jace to die so soon and I want to see more of him but but it might be dificult since the Triarchy atack was meant to target the Velaryon fleet and its base on Driftmark to break the blockade to King's Landing while it was under green control. If Rhaenyra already has King's Landing there is no blockade to break. Either that or they would have to find an excuse to put Jace on Dragonstone and the Velaryon fleet in Driftmark when after Rhaenyra's take over of King's Landing most of them would be defending the capital. The Triarchy trying to atack King's Landing directly might be too far fetched.

[@yogadork_namaste]

​@@masterplokoon8803very true. I really hope jace has some good screentime before his watch has ended.

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@yogadork_namaste there was a part of the the trailer for the season where Baela screams in horror at the top of her dragon. I used to think that she went with Meleys to Rook's Rest and saw her die but now I think that she flies with Jace into the battle of the Gullet and sees his fall.

[@ayiza8511]

I am really enjoying Deamons harrenhall escapades. They guy is on a whole trip haunting here and haunting there. Would have loved to see a really intense vision whit Viserys

[@Zarab923]

I’m convinced that’s what they’re building up to. Viserys will be the only one who can actually get through to Daemon and get him to dedicate himself to Rhaenyra’s cause. There’s so much that Daemon just can’t understand about why Viserys was wary of trusting him and now it’s happening with Rhaenyra

[@yggdrasil2]

There was a Richard IV in Blackadder...

[@WatchingCrow]

I could see them technically keeping Elmo Tully and just changing his name to Elmer

[@Forgetful_Scorpio]

The Witch is like one of the best horror movies AND it has some GOT actors in there.

[@thewerdna]

Clearly when, in the show, Jojen was blown up, his body was sent back in time and then turned into paste.

[@hk-4886]

Did they remove Elmo and Kermit Tully? In the show Oscar Tully says he’s the grandson of Grover Tully and his heir. In the books that role is filled by Elmo. Elmo has two sons, Kermit and Oscar. So Oscar is the great grandson of Grover and only third in line

[@SerObeseHightower]

One son! Ah ah ah! Two sons! Ah Ah ah!

[@adry3211]

Condal, you hack!

[@rschmidt93]

Best episode yet we finally got rid of that nagging war criminal

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

Seriously, I was so tired of the show version

[@yogadork_namaste]

Fear and loathing in harrenhall!

[@ayiza8511]

😂😂 my head canon is if mushroom said it it did not happen

[@carlrood4457]

The scene with Jace highlights my whole problem with the Aegon's Dream thing. Why isn't EVERY Targaryen taught this from birth? The whole kign to heir thing is idiotic considering it only took one generation for them to have succession conflict. Jahaerys had 13 kids, including 6 sons and NONE of them inherited the throne. At this point there has been only one succession without some sort of controversy (Aegon to Aenys). It's a Medieval world where life is cheap and princes get killed in battle. The idea that anyone believes this secret will continue to be passed down by only having two people at a time know about it is ludicrous. Hell, Viserys never told Daemon despite him being heir presumptive for years.

[@ChildOfTheFlower]

Jahearyes never told his oldest son Aemon who was his heir for nearly 4 decades since Rhaenys sure as **** didn't know either what was going on.

[@Zarab923]

I think they thought that if more people it was a risk that they’d tell someone and the story would spread and cause panic in the realm. Jaehaerys’ kids weren’t exactly the best kids and some got exiled or stuck into marriages they hated so they had reasons to want to lash out at their dad so yeah, I see why he didn’t wanna risk it but I see your point because the way the heirs kept dying you have to worry about the secret dying with one of them if some tragedy occurred that the king and the heir died before he could pass it along. It is definitely on the whole family to keep the house strong and united and populated lol

[@Morfe02]

im reading the blog of george and he said that dragons are beasts, intelligent but beast half tamed. and he explain the origin of dragons in WINDS OF WINTERS maybe im wrong but all the talk about "cute dog dragons" IS IMPORTANT

[@gokbay3057]

1:31:25 even if Jaeheara was to be recognized as Aegon's heir Aemond could still easily be Prince Regent. Only other person who could assume the regency is Alicent and perhaps Helaena. 1:33:20 Maybe Helaena after the Blacks take King's Landing? Doesn't seem very in character with her portrayal so far though.

[@elliecoffin616]

That Lamprey pie joke was very dirty for Alicent! Lampreys are shaped like 🤐😂😂😂 and she drinks moontea from and over indulgence 🤣🤣🤣

[@ShadowDogProduction]

Would it be considered treason, or at least tip Otto's hand to his plans, if he "raised Aegon to be king"? Aegon is like... 6th in the line of Succession? 8th? Under non treasonous circumstances, why would you imagine he'd need to prepare to be king? And it's not like you could hide these preparations. As far as Alicent, she didn't back Aegon to be king until her husband died so, again, why prepare her son before that?

[@yogadork_namaste]

He could have raised him to be politically savvy and and smart so he'd be better than what he is. Dude didnt understand taxes. But the Hightower are horrible parents.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

Gotta disagree on the Kingmaker bit. I think it would be much better to have given him a bigger role in the scheming and manipulation of Aegon. Now it just feels like a consolation prize

[@Zarab923]

I can’t imagine the actor in a more kingmaker type role. He doesn’t come off as someone diabolical who schemes up that kind of stuff. It suits him that he comes up with plans that in theory might be great but he doesn’t plan for uncontrollable variables like arryk running in to someone who just saw erryk and warning him or Aegon deciding to show up. Criston has a permanently confused look on his face so it makes sense for him to be someone who is reckless and arrogant instead of scheming and calculating because he has failed to do his job this season and somehow got promoted for it so of course he’ll keep doing it since he keeps somehow getting away with it

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

@Zarab923 well yeah, the way the show runners cast and wrote him, yes I agree. What I am saying is he should have been a more menacing, almost Darth Vader type, someone who has an intimidating presence

[@BatFlash52]

1:07:16 Every Frey Explained coming 2024 confirmed!

[@guilhermegfreitas]

do u think they purged the muppet tullies because of copyright reasons?

[@federicoxcc4966]

I didn't like How Meleys basically flew into a position where She could get easyly chomp; and she got the Arrax treatment. Yes, I ready Fire and Blood. And I've always imagine that Vaghar would have ended the fight by diving down on Sunfire and Meleys

[@blackeyedlily]

Love the Muppet Tullys! Especially as every one of those names is a legitimate name. Unfortunately, some of them had fallen out of fashion in modern times. But don’t forget we had a Kermit Roosevelt living in the White House at one time. And Elmo is not that crazy of a name that it couldn’t be used.

[@Jakob2322]

1:29:00 the german is not bad

[@comicdog5097]

Ive been asking people all season if they can figure out who Adam and Alyn and nobody i know has figured it out. Even after this episode... In which im finally telling people because they are dumb apparently

[@carastone3473]

The Alys Rivers actress is OBVIOUSLY Scottish.

[@Mofi357]

🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[@outsidein9809]

So nice just listening to you guys talk about the show and GOT universe and not hearing Preston Jacob’s cry about Trump and how the republicans will be the end of the world lol

[@theAverageJoe25]

I just wanna say I really appreciated Lord Darklyn spitting at Cole and saying what everyone was thinking

[@notribadsvault]

I was waiting for 2/10 to be a joke, but for real? That’s just having an axe to grind for personal pet peaves.

[@morganhunt8051]

@@notribadsvault huh? He said it was a joke like 20 seconds later

[@scrambledmeggs]

🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[@ThePainOfSilenc]

“Biden moment” LMAO

[@Rougarou99]

In the book, don’t Sunfyre, Meleys, Rhaenys, and Aegon all fall together, with Meleys dead, Sunfyre and Aegon grievously injured, and a burned corpse beyond recognition, assumed to be Rhaenys, beside them? Clearly, Aegon was the corpse and Rhaenys just pretended to be Aegon.

[@Mister_Skar]

I actually agree with you about purging the muppets. I'm not a book reader so maybe that's why I feel this way? but those names seem a bit too silly for me.

[@carlrood4457]

So who isn't inexperienced? As far as we know only Daemon and Laenor have ridden dragons into war at this point and that was against conventional troops. No one has been in a dragon vs dragon battle unless you count the Aemond /Lucerys curb stomp. Are we to believe that Rhaenys, a princess, has any sort of battle experience? Jace, at least got the military training most noble boys get.

[@QuinnTheGM]

I had this same thought and meant to share it

[@LPno.9]

Why does it matter that she's a princess? Daemon and, technically, Leanor are princes who went to war. She's a Targaryen with her own war machine. She was also patrolling the Gullet not far from King's Landing with their dragons and scorpions. Jace is also a prince, and Baela is a princess who are participating. It's also hard to believe thst Corlys would never have taken advantage of his wife's dragon riding in his battles. He used his son's. He said that Rhaena was pretty much worthless because she didn't have one.

[@mil_enrama]

My choice not to re-read F&B for this season is paying off. I have been thoroughly enjoying every episode while book purists are wailing and gnashing their teeth because the show isn't exactly as they imagined. But you know what? This is not my vision, it's someone else's! And when you accept that and appreciate the show for itself, it is phenomenal.

[@TheStoneTargaryen]

GIRLFRIEND?! 😭

[@yamochanchan]

HotD is book prestory! Not GoT prestory! I am by this point 100% sure that ASoIaF will be remade once the books are done... Well if the books are done 😂

[@CrackingCody]

Nah, all the sites are calling this a masterpiece and the vast majority of viewers agree. You guys are in the minority liking episode 2 more. Just how it is.

[@elijahrodriguez647]

i understand why ppl love one over the other. im in the episode 2 camp bc the acting and writing and pacing just felt so perfect. Episode 2 made me feel like middle of season 3 of thrones lol. but 4 is an amazing ep and has made the top 5 eps all time on most show rating sites. either way, we are eating good. i hope they can maintain this quality

[@masterplokoon8803]

The ending sucked. Aemond's character was assassinated and he was portrayed as an idiot who would try to kill a dragon that is on his side when his side is already massively outnumbered by enemy dragons. His loyalty to his brother and family were completely removed and he just turned into a cartoon vilain.

[@jaredheath3642]

Oh yes because we should always trust the majority with everything. This episode was horrible. They straight up try to ruin Aegon and Aemond any chance they can get. They ruined most of the characters, compared to their book counterparts. This show is making me really appreciate Fire and Blood so much more.

[@masterplokoon8803]

@@CrackingCody well the majority also loved seasons 6 and 7 of game of thrones.

[@troutsy6897]

​@@masterplokoon8803 Horrible take, if anything Aemond is more or less a cartoon villain from the start in the book. Like the vast majority of other characters, Aemond is imbued with FAR more development and nuance in the show. We actually SEE his transformation into the character he is in the book. Even if you disagree with the change, you can't argue that it makes sense in the context of the show and is perfectly in keeping with his character.