House of the Dragon Season 2 Episode 8 Review - All Setup and No Payoff

Off the bat I think we can all agree, whether you liked or hated it, this did not feel like a finale. It felt more like the penultimate episode if anything. Someone said that the entire episode itself was just a giant trailer for season 3 and while I don't necessarily agree, I can certainly understand the frustration. Lets talk about it.
Episode 8 Leaks Discussion/Daemon Video: • House of the Dragon Se...
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▬ Information ▬
House of the Dragon is an American fantasy drama television series created by George R. R. Martin and Ryan J. Condal for HBO. It is a prequel to the television series Game of Thrones and is based on Martin's 2018 novel Fire & Blood. Set two hundred years before the events of Game of Thrones, the series chronicles the beginning of the end of House Targaryen, the events leading up to the Targaryen civil war, known as the "Dance of the Dragons", and the war itself. The main contenders are Houses Targaryen, Hightower, Stark, Baratheon, Arryn and Velaryon.
Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil conflict among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter, the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
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#HouseoftheDragon #GameOfThrones #WindsofWinter #GameOfThronesPrequel #Podcast #HBO #Targaryen #Rhaenyra #Alicent #Daemon

[@andrewschneider2121]

Otto threw himself in a cell because he saw how this season was going.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

fair

[@berserk4souls]

Funny enough it feels like the pacing was locked away in a dungeon as well.

[@Rifi77]

Somehow I have this feeling that they're gonna change his fate from the books

[@willbeard4835]

@@Rifi77 at this point rhaenyra may not even get eaten by a dragon

[@tamnickyle]

Alicent switched sides and gave up her own sons, and Sunfyre is confirmed dead. Yeah it definitely seems like they're going to retcon the ending. Fuck this

[@juanpablomina1346]

The final scene of S01 with Rhaenyra being reasonably angry really went nowhere...

[@vereyafrequency]

you would think the first episode of this season would be all hell breaks loose but nah.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@vereyafrequency a little boy died that every character completely forgot about, how dare you!

[@ncblock87]

You would think the murder of her son would have been a breaking point. But nah...

[@dementedavenger2784]

Didn't she say "son for a son" in the finale. That's somewhere

[@skedda2861]

All hell breaks loose with what army??

[@Nick_Barone]

But hey, that girl with permanent bugged out eyes said hello to a dragon…..😮😂

[@rohaankhan7523]

Wait who ??🥲

[@Nick_Barone]

@@rohaankhan7523 Rhaena

[@Latenivenatrix_Mcmasterae]

@@rohaankhan7523Rhaena, she always looks like she’s gonna snap

[@SFforlife]

I’m so glad they cut Nettles for this 🙄

[@javatreecko]

I ain’t standing for Rhaena slander

[@jordanford9320]

Ser Simon strong carried this season dude is a walking meme

[@LautaroFs]

I laugh so hard when Daemon kneels and he starts clapping, dude is a bliss.

[@ringamaite]

The seed is Strong.

[@alanpennie]

His reaction shots during the *great reconciliation* were hilarious

[@zypalitra8080]

I'm usually against big changes for characters being kept alive longer than they should be or dying too early, but I really hope they don't kill him off and change it so that he lives a little longer. He's been such fun to watch.

[@ago184]

Alicent selling out her sons was beyond ridiculous. WTF was that?!

[@Backdyre]

One season she shields Aegon from what she thinks is impending death from dragon fire, and the next she sells him out because she changed her mind? What is this character?!

[@unc54]

@@Backdyre It all comes back to that dinner scene. Alicent went from an S tier character to the worst character in the show.

[@LautaroFs]

Cersei is a better mother than her, indeed wtf?!

[@schnozchan6606]

When i heard the spoilers about that scene, i was dumbfounded but in the actual episode i didn't hate it as much as i thought i would. Key words being "AS MUCH". Still an incredibly stupid change that makes Alicent look like a complete dumbass, but i think olivia cooke's performance sold it for me. She comes off like she's spiralling and searching for anything to grab onto and in that spiralling she has made an incredible error that feels entirely illogical, because she isn't really acting logically. Idk how they will handle this going forward, but judging by how they completely wrote off rhaenys killing hundreds of people at the dragonpit to have her be the "peacekeeper" this season, and luke's death having no real reaction from the Blacks, my hopes are not high for alicent in this regard. This show is gives me whiplash from how it goes from great to incredibly stupid and bad in the matter of seconds lol.

[@willbeard4835]

The story will unravel because of the changes to blood and cheese. Alicent and Helena should be broken mentally and suffering because of what they went through. In the show it's barely an inconvenience

[@Vortexnicholas]

😂😂What’s weird is that Helena , showed up in a prophecy vision to support the man( daemon ) who was responsible for her son getting b*headed. Did the writers not think about that ???

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

Probably! lol

[@franklyn2661]

Shoutout to Rhaena's eyeballs👀

[@DominationRotation]

Lol.

[@lukeschroder3036]

If she has one more scene with her eyeballs bulging, imma gouge my own eyes out

[@SilverScale.]

Gwayne is pissed about Cole because Alicent is his sister, and because he had such highfalutin values around knighthood, war and service, to begin with. He talks down to Cole even though Cole is his field commander because he thinks he outranks him within the nobility, and because he feels he has a moral high ground in calling Cole out. So that confrontation scene made sense to me.

[@alanpennie]

I was pleased they had this little heart - to - heart.

[@Backdyre]

Alicent in fire&blood fiercely supported her son’s claim. She was one of if not the most supportive of Aegon, so to not only show her as a terrible and unsupportive mother in the show but to also have her be complicit with her sons possible death, the one not long ago she was prepared to protect with her life ( HOTD Episode 9 “The Green Council”) against rhaenys and her dragon is beyond me. Absolutely beyond me, these show runners abandon storylines (that THEY THEMSELVES CREATE) as they please like people aren’t gonna notice.

[@Hazelcake]

damn, it's like she changed her mind or something

[@r.beeeee]

​​@@Hazelcake she decided to let her 3 sons (daeron is innocent), cole and brother die because she had a bath in the woods makes total sense.

[@Hazelcake]

@@r.beeeee while i agree all of them would have as much claim as Aegon, they weren't mentioned so you can't say for sure what she was expecting for them. She knows Aemond is evil af and a threat to Helaena so it's best he dies. for Aegon the way she spoke was that ending his suffering was part of the consideration. and perhaps dany kinda forgot about Daeron/maybe she thinks he can be spared as he's young and been raised away from KL. Oh and cole is a fuckboy who betrayed her, why would she bother trying to save him a third time

[@r.beeeee]

@@Hazelcake I don't like what they did with aemonds character by making him a one-note villain, in the beginning (even though it's tragic that Luke dies) he admits in private it was an accident making it seem like he was going to question his actions in private but mask how he's really feeling in public (which would have made him complex) but out of nowhere he starts hating aegon and shows no sympathy for jaehaerys or halaena or aegon. It makes sense for alicent to want to keep aegon alive (he wants to live even though he's suffering otherwise he wouldn't have escaped with larys) she took care of viserys until the end. Shes also the one who put him and forced him on to the throne in the first place. She was the only one who defended aemond with his eye. There were so many directions they could've taken the greens, so many developments that could have set up s3 (not just action sequences)

[@VMohdude-]

@@r.beeeeeshe condemned Aegon and Aemond. No one else. Cole, Gwayne and Daeron are far away and safe (for now). They talked about the taking of KL.

[@GageEakins]

I actually really liked the Larys and Aegon scene. I didn't think it was humiliation porn. I think they played it very seriously. Basically a guy is despondent about his life after being gravely injured. It also had the element of how this society views a man who can't fight, can't walk properly and is metaphorically and literally stripped of his manhood. I think it worked really well and I think that Larys having sympathies for what he is going through worked well too. I agree with you on most other scenes you did like and absolutely agree on the other disliked scenes.

[@Funaabas]

to him it was like “why bother? what life will i have? dont even have a dick to piss”

[@DildoDaggins69]

Yeah, I really don't get the issue with that. And it's entirely in keeping with the book.

[@JackPinter]

Same, I found this scene incredibly moving, and I'm a cynical bastard.

[@SFforlife]

I didn’t like that they straight up revealed it was Larys all along that smuggled him away to safety.

[@brocklee9202]

I just couldn't believe Sunfyre was confirmed dead.. he's arguably the most important dragon plot wise if you know what happens..... and the fact they even confirmed Sunfyre did the crucial plot thing back in GoT s3... stupid. It's retcon. And it's not like they're doing some secret alternate twist, like everyone thought after the NK was killed in s8e3. What you see and hear is usually what you get when it comes to these writers...

[@thehalfbloodserb]

According to some information collated on the asoiaf subreddit, there were 10 complete episodes written including the gullet battle. But the change in hbo management forced them to cut it to 8 episodes, and possibly due to the looming writers strike they decided to keep the first 8 with minor changes rather than rewrite the entire season. Condal also confirmed that they decided to push the battle to the next season partly due to resourcing, as they couldn't afford to do it in the way they wanted to this season

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Can you link that to me?

[@thehalfbloodserb]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview since youtube won't allow the full link it's: r/asoiaf/comments/1ekqoe8/spoilers_extended_what_we_know_about_hotd_season/

[@thehalfbloodserb]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview sent

[@Isuream6331]

Ah yes, corporate meddling. My favourite

[@sese8976]

that last question is the difference between book readers and people only watching the show ... book readers can never forgive D&D

[@SFforlife]

Show fans hate S8 (and rightfully so) but as a book reader I’ve been pissed at D&D since S5 lol

[@dom9041543]

I was fine with everything until season 7

[@aegorrivers6700]

Unlike D&D, we never kinda forget

[@nakki123]

​@@SFforlifeIm show fan and i hated the show since season 6. Season 5 was bad but i still had hope i would get better again.

[@MC-el2us]

Never. Ever, ever.

[@fairdose]

MVP of S.2 is Ser Simon Strong, for being the best-dressed, dripped-out diva noble. This guy deserves his own fashion house.

[@SuperAuzziegamer]

If i start telling people that GoT S8 story was ok... I've been kidnapped and my life is in danger.

[@Backdyre]

The idea of Alicent in Fire&Blood that I absolutely love is that she doesn’t give two craps what Viserys wished, this isn’t some fairytale land where viserys is this all righteous figure that people need to listen to after his death. And the iron throne isn’t the sort of throne that is won by simply being next in line, if you look at not only medieval history but Westorosi history you can see that it’s seldom half the case. It’s won by might, and political cunning, the franchise is literally known as “Game of thrones” even though it’s technically called ASOIAF. And as for Alicent, she is a focused woman who is set on accomplishing her goals. This girl is a Hightower from Oldtown, of the oldest noble families who at the time ruled the most prestigious city in Westeros, and also one of the oldest, it’s the home of the maestors and the faith whom her family heavily supports and have been patrons of for generations. As she was growing up to be a lady in kings landing her father was hand to Jaehaerys the conciliator, the single greatest king in the history of Westeros, the same king who when he was nearing death called a great council to decide who would be the next ruler, and that very council choosing Viserys, the first born of a second son over Rhaenys and Laenor, a direct descendant of his first born, which directly upholded untold thousands of years of tradition and law from the first man to the Andals of first born male primogeniture over everyone else. To grow up to that, be the best highborn lady you can be. Get chosen to be queen by that exact beneficiary himself (Viserys) and then give him 3 true born Targaryen sons (Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron, plus a girl Haelaena) which are all eventual dragon riders each one of their dragons being very fierce, and then being somehow placed in competition with Rhaenyra, daddies little princess who can do no wrong even after all the vile and unladylike things she got to indulge in as narrated in Fire&Blood and shown in HOTD when she sleeps with Ser Criston, and untop of that having the most obviously bastard looking kids even before Jeoffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella. And then have your husband who you’ve given everything to, your obedience as his wife and consort, and most importantly *HEIRS* and then have him insult you by still choosing Rhaenyra, a women with a rocky history of behavioral problems, and untop of that ignore one of her bastards (which by their very existence insult her and her children and the crown as a whole) slice the eye out of her own son. To have such a weak, incompetent, and biased leader as your king for half of your life who had made you smile through it all and try to ignore the degenerate behavior of his daughter just because she’s his first born from another women by the way! That’s Crazy. And I would not blame Alicent for her actions. (Except letting his body rot, weak king or not he deserves immediate care and proper burial) So what I loved about book Alicent is that she was set on her goals and intentions to make her son king, an endeavor she vied and supported till the very end, before she turned insane of course. I despise this show Alicent who can’t choose between her obvious enemy and her own family, that’s why I don’t really like the whole they were once former best friends storyline the show made up. I’m unapologetically against show Alicent, whether you are team black, neutral, or team green, we can all agree that her book counterpart would’ve never even for a moment think of betraying her sons, not once. For a mother such as Alicent who gave herself completely to her sons, who in the show even got in front of Aegon when Meleys was ready to burn them all, and to then let him die? What kind of character is that? Because it’s not a good one I can tell you that. I would always expect a mother, no matter her morals (Cersei being a good example) would always have unconditional love for their children. But that’s just too hard for poor show Alicent is it?

[@gingeranagram2467]

I'm not reading all of that. Jfc

[@wynonasbigbrowndragon6121]

Alyn's scene was amazing

[@jameseden591]

I still don't understand why Team Black can't just fly over to King's Landing and win the war. They have six dragon riders, three of whom are expendable.

[@alanpennie8013]

I expected KL to fall this episode. Still Rhaenyra always gains by waiting. Alicent is now arranging to surrender it peacefully.

[@gmsthisvilekingdom3390]

i hate how the show force team black on us...no grey characters or nuance like the source material.

[@Backdyre]

Essentially Alicent in this show is a walking contradictory character, and not in a smug “that was the point sort of way☝️🤓” that these incompetent show runners are trying to do but in a literary sort of way, her character seems to change every episode. She doesn’t care about her kids, barely mourning for her grandsons brutal murder, but then in the next episode is supportive of the green cause, then in the next one going another direction.

[@Timquan.]

She was written too strongly in s1 and the writters decided to nueter her and mark her style of femininity as clearly wrong in order to cover up just how right she was In s1.

[@slightlygone]

HOTD: The Setup

[@Ezojazol]

Nice setup for the last two episodes... OH WAIT! Also RIP Alicent Hightower, my theory is that a faceless man took her place.

[@nont18411]

It’s Bran who took her place

[@Ezojazol]

@@nont18411 It sure explains her complete apathy

[@BigFlabbins]

Allicent Hightower is being mind controlled by Alys Rivers.

[@randeli7785]

She's a host sent by Ford.

[@willbeard4835]

The story will unravel because of the changes to blood and cheese. Alicent and Helena should be broken mentally and suffering because of what they went through. In the show it's barely an inconvenience

[@rohaankhan7523]

Idk but the way HOTD s2 uses GOT is like how a kid in highschool uses their Popular friend to gain recognition instead of trying to be themselves. Also i don't think there was lack of action or filler this season but the changes made from the books and portrayals of thing's and decisions is what made this season..kinda...mehh

[@Backdyre]

As to the girl Nettles, "She is a common thing, with the stink of sorcery upon her," the queen declared. "My prince would neer lay with such a low creature. You need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon's blood in her. It was with spells that she bound a dragon to her, and she has done the same with my lord husband." - Rhaenyra Targaryen from Fire&Blood How much do you guys wanna bet that they cut out Nettles and pseudo-replaced her with Alys rivers because of this quote? They can’t have their Daenerys wannabe poster girl being the least bit negative. Or when she had Vaemond murdered by Daemon and fed to Syrax.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

but why and how would they backtrack to Rhaenyra knowing or caring about Daemon sleeping with Alys at this point, AFTER she already came to Harrenhal and he swore to her. it would make more sense if she did that before he swore to her in front of his army because there would still be tension between them. but now at this point after seeing visions and swearing to her face to face and in front of the army he gathered, what significance does it make for Rhaenyra to care that he slept with Alys

[@Backdyre]

@@b1bbscraz3y Simple, because the plot points in the books and the show are different, I made this comment by using one out of a multitude of examples in Fire&Blood as a general point of Rhaenyra’s character and how she isn’t some one dimensional righteous character as they’re trying to portray her in the show. This quote by Rhaenyra was after ulf and Hugh had betrayed her and she was getting desperate and suspicious of the other dragonseeds that she sent 20 gold cloaks commanded by Ser Luthor Largent to arrest Addam velaryon, on top of that since nettles was a dragonseed and was said to be very close with Daemon she suspected her of controlling him with magic because she couldn’t possibly imagine that such a lowborn peasant girl could lay with her prince. Also just to clarify even more I’m not saying Rhaenyra would be mad at someone sleeping with Daemon it is pointed out earlier on in the dance chapters that Rhaenyra let Daemon sleep with other women. Mysaria I believe was the one who he still had relations with the last time I checked, I suspect as long as she worked for them she let it happen but it was specifically nettles because she could pose a threat with her dragon that she got angry.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@Backdyre right all that would make sense if Alys had a dragon like Nettles, but she doesn't so who cares. it's the fact of Nettles also being a dragon rider that makes it more significant. Alys doesn't ride a dragon, thus making it far less significant

[@jamesmorseman3180]

I don't understand what you don't understand about the Aegon line. He said that because he currently doesn't have an heir and the language is pretty on point for something he would say. This episode was ass but that was like one of the only good scenes of the episode.

[@throwbackblackcat]

Mysaria and Orwyle are both Fire Emblem speedrunners spamming their Warp Staff and Rescue Staff to teleport Rhaenyra and Alicent across enemy lines on the map to to speak to each other and sequence break the story

[@dino-id8yb]

w comment 😂

[@Orikon25]

There is 100% some kind of deleted scene featuring Criston and Gwayne. The scene in Episode 8 felt like it lacked context, especially since we didn't see these 2 in the earlier episode. When and how did Gwayne find out Criston slept with Alicent? If he knew from the start, why didn't he confront him earlier? Was there some kind of conversation between them before the scene? It was literally just Gwayne coming up to Criston all like "you fucked my sister". In Season 1, almost every time there was that lack of context, there was a deleted scene to back it up.

[@essey.]

I saw a pic of them in a sept(?) But I assumed he saw the ‘A’ stitched on the handkerchief and pieced it together

[@b1bbscraz3y]

most likely the handkerchief and Gwayne somehow knew it was Alicent's, I'm guessing

[@BigFlabbins]

Rhaenyra should have been hellbent on war instead of trying to be reasonable. Her son was brutally eaten and murdered, reason should have gone second to vengeance. Rhaenyra and Allicent should not have met again until Rhaenyra takes Kings Landing. Making us wait longer for that sort of reunion, especially under such circumstances would have been much more powerful. They need to fucking forget about GOT and focus on being HOTD, no more references ffs. HBO is most certainly a big reason this season was underwhelming, $ over art is just so fucking typical. We had all the buildup, none of the payoff. Instead we have pain and blue balls. Imagine cutting out the Battle of Blackwater from GOT S2 after all that buildup. Wild.

[@LordFleaBottom]

*The* *Queen* *Who* *Ever* *Was* The episode was only 109 minutes when I thought it would be 113? They cut a scene from the leaked footage. It’s a scene of Alicent and Helaena escaping. They’re both sitting inside a carriage. The part when Alicent secretly sees Rhaenyra made zero sense. She’s practically committing treason. Told Rhaenyra everything including an injured Aegon. Only five episodes earlier, Alicent told Rhaenyra it was too late. Was cutting that scene a way to have Alicent and Helaena remain at King’s Landing after it’s seized by Team Black? Scenes with Rhaenyra and Alicent were only created for Emma and Olivia to shoot scenes together. You can tell it’s a retelling of GRRM’s story. The other extremely divisive scene and perhaps the most divisive scene happens to be Daemon’s vision. Unlike Preston from RedTeamReview, I don’t have an issue that fate determines a character although Daemon loses this option. He said winter is coming in High Valyrian and it was cringe. My biggest problem was what Southern Mother of Dragons and Red said. Why lean on the previous show and White Walkers? Can’t House of the Dragon be carried by their own characters and not the backs of Daenerys and the White Walkers? It was great to see a book accurate Brynden Rivers / Bloodraven this time unlike having Max von Sydow (RIP). Joshua Ben-Tovim have eyes that beam like Cillian Murphy. The White Walker did look awful like it was a cheap mask. Freeze frame it and it looks awful. Seeing the back of Dany’s naked body looked like cheap CGI/AI crap too. I had no problem with Daemon finally pledging his allegiance to Rhaenyra but that’s always been the case. His visions will probably have a pay off later on as Alys Rivers did tell Daemon he has gained abilities of a greenseer since arriving at Harrenhal. I believe they’re leaning onto this angle after Daemon dies to explain where his body was all this time. Season 2 didn’t feel it improved any of the established characters with maybe the exception being Aegon and to a lesser degree, Mysaria. I didn’t get anything out of Daemon, Alicent, Corlys, Baela, and Rhaena. Rhaenyra and Rhaenys were fine but they were always that way from S1. None of the new characters like Ulf, Hugh, Alys, and Jeyne stood out. I voted on a poll on The Plot Twist asking who is my favorite character between Rhaenyra, Daemon, Aegon, and Aemond? I was a surprised Daemon won from 24K votes at 59%. Rhaenyra is at 28%, Aemond is at 10%, and Aegon is 3%. When I voted for him, it still had 10K votes and he was at 57%. Aemond and Aegon dropped 1% each since then for Daemon to gain that 2%. It’s obvious at least 90% of viewers are Team Black. Rhaenyra was beating Aegon 93% to 7% in another poll. After S2 wasted Daemon, fans still love the D-man? I’m starting to question if he remains my favorite character as we didn’t see the greatness coming from Daemon because the writers wants to keep humiliating him because he’s no Paul Rudd. While I didn’t enjoy every moment of Daemon from S1, he was a lot better in that first season than this one. Let’s say Bloodraven or Breakspear becomes my all-time favorite. HBO will find a way to ruin them. They always do. Their only clear improvement was with Viserys. Daemon in S1: 8/10 Daemon in S2: 6/10 Matt Smith could easily carry this show. Matt and his Daemon character have enough charisma to pull it off. But the writers wants us to hate everyone in the show not named Rhaenyra or Rhaenys. They’re the perfect ones while everyone else is flawed. Rhaenyra and Alicent can’t lead for shit but it’s the writers wanting us to hate Daemon and view him as a selfish bozo. They’re turning him as pathetic as Kylo Ren! No wonder GRRM recently threw these hack writers under the bus. I know the Dance should center on Rhaenyra because this is her story but the writers are extremely biased towards her as if everything she does is correct or can be justified. I feel she will get whitewashed at the end. Overall, I will give this season only a B-. I think it’s about as good as The Boys S4. Maybe I should give both a C+ instead? Half the season was good to great, and then the other half made some questionable creative decisions…. Good to great: Ep. 1, 2, 4, 7 Bad to questionable: Ep. 3, 5, 6, 8? Perhaps the strikes and WB only ordering for 8 episodes affected S2 to become worse. We should’ve ended S2 during the Battle of Gullet. So Episode 8 felt like a trailer to Season 3 or to an Episode 9 and 10 we should’ve got. If we had gotten 10 episodes, it would’ve finished with Gullet. Felt like Season 2 got limited by the budget and number of episodes. HOT D S2 Character Rankings 1. Rhaenys 2. Rhaenyra 3. Silverwing (more character than the rest) That’s it for me. The rest didn’t seem to matter. I know Alicent taking so many baths or dips in water is for her to cleanse the impurities she did with Criston but we didn’t need to see her keep taking baths. We saw Aegon for half the season and only saw Otto for two episodes. We saw Tessarion but not Daeron. We get Tyland (mistakenly called Tywin) getting into a mud fight with a transgender KZbinr who also appeared in The Acolyte. Sharako Lohar is supposed to be a male in the book. I guess he still is. Or should I refer Sharako as they/them? Baela and Rhaena were wasted. Jace is always complaining. Got nothing out of the Jeyne Arryn scenes except her acting like a total bitch to Rhaena. Ulf went from fan favorite for people who never read the book into a moron after a couple of scenes in Ep. 8. I didn’t get much out of the Velaryons this season. It’s now official that I prefer Andor over House of the Dragon. I don’t have hopes from HBO doing this right. With Andor, while it doesn’t have enough lore building for Star Wars channels like Star Wars Meg and Generation Tech to talk about, it excels because Disney doesn’t meddle on what Tony Gilroy wants to do. I feel HBO is meddling too much on George’s work. It still hurts that we need to wait two more years for HOT D’s Season 3 which I expect to be a banger. I’m hoping HOT D does the opposite of Game of Thrones. GOT started great but ended poorly. HOT D starts off a bit too slow but ends amazingly. I expect S3 and S4 to be superior to S1 and S2. And we got A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms next summer to hold us over like Gen V did last year for fans of The Boys. Only 6 episodes but better than nothing. I wouldn’t have my hopes up too high for Baelor Targaryen, aka Breakspear. He is my 3rd favorite all-time character behind the Rogue Prince and Bloodraven. But after what HBO has done to GRRM’s favorite Targaryen in Daemon, their own “interpretation” of Baelor could end up far worse. We just have to accept the fact that HBO will dramatically change things, for better or for worse. GOT/HOT D Season Rankings 1. GOT S4 2. GOT S6 3. GOT S3 4. GOT S1 5. HOT D S1 6. GOT S2 7. GOT S5 8. HOT D S2 ⬇️ 9. GOT S7 10. GOT S8 I know GOT S8 is hated. But Ep. 2 was fun and Ep. 3 was still more exciting than most episodes that HOT D had. Maybe I should have HOT D S2 below GOT S7? GOT S7 still gave us 7x4 The Spoils of War and Euron savagely killing the Sand Snakes in 7x2. And 7x6 Beyond the Wall wasn’t that bad. At least we got Tormund and The Hound in the same scenes. The Acolyte or Game of Thrones Season 8? I would still take GOT S8 but would turn it off after The Long Night. I don’t need to watch the next 3 episodes after that where Dany forgot about the Iron Fleet and Rhaegal easily got killed, Dany goes mad and burns KL, and Bran gets chosen to sit on the Iron Throne. Jon should actually be beheaded for killing Dany. Not get his old job back where the White Walkers are no longer a threat. Jon basically got a slap on the wrist. Jon got off better than getting detention. I didn’t hate House of the Dragon S2. Still had some amazing cinematography and production values. The best set designs and costume designs in the business. I was still entertained by a couple of episodes specifically Ep. 2 and 4, but I can’t call it a great season overall. I was a little disappointed with the pacing, character development, and a few creative but odd decisions. Some of the story arcs for these characters went nowhere. If S1 was an A- or B+, S2 is a B- or C+. A letdown like The Boys S4. Oh well, I’m still optimistic for Season 3. With no more actors and writers strikes to interrupt production, I fully expect S3 to be far superior to what we got from S2. Let’s hope for 10 episodes instead of a measly 8 and we get to see several battles in it. We just need to expect that HBO will never try to emulate what’s written in the book and accept these changes. See y’all again next year for the Dunk & Egg series. It’s coming in the same month as Andor S2. ThroneVerse/ASOIAF is still a great lore to be part of! 1. Loki S1 (2021) 2. Loki S2 (2023) 3. House of the Dragon S1 (2022) 4. Andor S1 (2022) 5. House of the Dragon S2 (2024) Overall 1. Loki 2. Andor 3. House of the Dragon BTW, is Sunfyre dead or is Aegon only assuming he’s dead? They need Sunfyre later to explain what Joffrey told Margaery in GOT S4. All-Time Favorite Targaryens 1. Daemon Targaryen 2. Brynden Rivers (a bastard) 3. Baelor I Targaryen Who is HBO going to ruin next? Bertie Carvel better bring it next summer! Duncan the Tall is a fan favorite among book readers. I expect him to have many fans for the show next summer like Daemon has prior to HOT D airing in 2022. *A* *Knight* *of* *the* *Seven* *Kingdoms* (June 15, 2025 - July 20, 2025) Let’s hope for a teaser drop before this year ends.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

bro literally wrote an essay lmao

[@darthJ9]

I didn't even know you could comment something this long on a youtube video. A proper essay, title and everything 😂

[@you-jb8ef]

I posted the same hotd/got rankings (except s2 and 6 swapped) on the r/gameofthrones sub and was demolsied in the replies because hot2 was so low

[@status_quo_post]

I do need to know what in the seven hells happened to Ser Harrold Westerling.

[@masterplokoon8803]

They forgot about him. They only prolonged his life so he could dunk on Criston about how much of a false knight he is.

[@user-hg3iv5hy3s]

Me too!!😂

[@BobBrophy78]

I'm kind of split on Dave and Dan. They did give us arguably the best 1-4 seasons of tv history with GoT and that's no small thing. But then they started to run out of source material and the show started it's decline into the shameful embarrassment that is season 8.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

fair

[@theprimo100]

They didn't really run out, though. They omitted an entire book.

[@gilesbarnes7456]

@@theprimo100 true but if you look at the stuff they omitted it was the stuff without a clear ending. Lady Stoneheart, Dorne, the Vale plotline with Sansa, young Griff all the stuff they omitted was the stuff that there is no clear ending for. Lady Stoneheart is a glorified undead bandit, we know Doran Martell is up to something (we don't know what), Sansa and Littlefinger are building power in the Vale. At best Dave and Dan could have used that for maybe another season but then they would be in the same position at the start of season 6 without source material. Don't get me wrong many of the choices they made were awful, the Sansa rape was the final straw meant I lost all interest in the setting barring observing the fandom which I find fascinating. But the point still stands Martin wasn't about to finish the book or give them a satisfying ending in a timeframe that wasn't decades.

[@SuperCrow02]

​@@gilesbarnes7456It was up to them to find a way. Whether that means more writers, more production time or whatever. They fucked up.

[@gilesbarnes7456]

@@SuperCrow02 no disagreement here, however if Martin wanted the tv adaptation of his novels to have a good ending he probably should have given them an ending to adapt.

[@maxpowers6033]

They should have at least ended the episode with Sheepstealer walking up to Rhaena or something similar

[@hopemikaelson9223]

Literally no one is starting to miss David and Dan, what are you even talking about... How this series goes has nothing to do with how those two ended the main story, I literally read better fanfics online and that not a simple "fumble" on their part, it's straight up unforgiveable.

[@mycattypedthis2827]

WB’s decision to cut season to 8 episodes is the biggest culprit. Condall&Hess said that the script was finalized before the cut announcement, and then the writers strike happened, so they didn’t have the opportunity to rework and rewrite it properly. We’re literally seeing unfinished season and the first two episodes of s3 will have to fast forward ep 9&10 of this season. great planning on WB’s part. you just gotta love it when corporate gets in the way of creativity.

[@sebastianirala7714]

Big sad. I couldn't believe it didn't end with the fall of king's landing

[@willbeard4835]

At least the battle of the gullet so we see the prince die like in season 1

[@Isuream6331]

Worst part is that you can TELL it was going to before the episodes got shortened. It literally ended right before it would have happened.

[@suzleber4]

I honestly loved the Aegon and Larys scene. I don't think we were meant to pay attention to what Aegon was actually saying but how vast of a contrast it was from what Larys is saying. Larys is talking about hope, talking about tomorrow, a plan for the future. Aegon is living in the now and it's so far away.

[@Caio_Myguel]

There had been happening 300 years of visions of The Long Night and the white walkers, but only to have it ended in a single night...! Imagine if Daemon had seen that, too lmao

[@ceciarchi4674]

And ended by te hand of Arya Stark 😂

[@alexmars1511]

The whole season was pointless if it only took one dream for Deamon to undo his treason.

[@LarthV]

Well, Daemon was slowly manipulated into being open to prophecy. Not that I particularly like it, but I do not think that Episode 2 Daemon would have given that vision a second thought. He has been "trained" to be open to this stuff...

[@Backdyre]

From the looks of it, It seems like the first season (writing wise) will be the best out of the 4 seasons of this show. I never expected this show to come close to early GOT in terms of writing but I at least expected some competency from the show runners, they put the blacks, specifically rhaenyra, on a superior moral pedestal like they’re supposed to be the good guys and that greens=bad, like there’s no moral ambiguity in majority of the characters, I wish the majority of casual non-book reading reactors the best when they inevitably get disappointed with a certain characters death.

[@SFforlife]

I have a weird feeling they’re going to squirm out of giving Rhae to Sunfyre. Hope I’m wrong lol

[@Backdyre]

@@SFforlife Aegon even says to Larys that “my dragon is dead” Now I do believe that he’s just mistaken but if Sunfyre is actually dead in the show then I could see them going for that, I’ve always speculated that they were going to make Rhaenyra’s death to be this dramatic self sacrifice and that rhaenyra is going to bravely walk to her death by dragon fire, as if she didn’t scream like a little girl as she got burnt and then devoured lol. Rhaenyra as a character just can’t do no wrong, and if she does, it’s sweeped under the rug, forgotten, and not further acknowledged.

[@SFforlife]

@@Backdyre Oh for sure, I’m hoping it’s a red herring though, and they’re trying to make the audience forget about Sunfyre only to reveal him in the end. Even if that happens though I’m sure they’ll have her go out heroically, probably dramatically sacrificing herself for Aegon III.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@Backdyre it should be pretty obvious with as many characters saying Sunfyre is dead or discounting Sunfyre blatantly in their dialogue is supposed to be meant as a some surprise later that it's still alive. it's not that much different from DC characters all sad about Superman being dead and thinking they have no hope only for him to come back to life later

[@Longshanks1690]

I don’t like how they made Daemon arrive at the conclusion he did, in fact I kind of hate it. Overall, I’ve been loving the Harrenhal scenes - certainly more than most of the fanbase - and while I did enjoy the aesthetic of the final dream sequence… it just feels so out of character for Daemon. Daemon is a character who views himself as the decisive man of action, the definition of main character syndrome who thinks he and only he has the ability to change history and save his House. Now, this season has gone to great lengths to put him on an arc of change, to make him understand that he’s not the most important person in the world, that he actually has remorse for what he’s done and he’s capable of showing restraint rather than indulging his impulses to get what he wants. But at his core, he still should have that “I write my own fate” aspect to his character, which is what leads into throwing away the idea of being King in his own name. He doesn’t want the power but he wants to help Rhaenyra get there. Overall, I love that idea. …But making it so the final reason that pushes him over the edge is prophecy? It just feels wrong. Daemon can embrace the magical aspects of Targaryen history and his world, but he should never lose sight of his desire to write his own story. Giving up on that and simply accepting that he’s a pawn of destiny doesn’t just feel contradictory to his character, it feels extremely cheap and weak. Rather than explaining why he truly believes in Rhaenyra now, he simply pivots to “Well the magic tree says she has to, and that’s good enough for me!” They could have done SO much more with him that gave him a magically related arc while still making his decisions his own. What’s more, it feels contradictory to George’s themes. In spite of the obvious shenanigans of Bloodraven/TTB, every character consciously wants to choose their own fate, that’s very important for them because it’s very important to George that you dispel the idea of myth and destiny and prophecy guiding character actions more than anything else, because that is ultimately what drives people. So making Daemon, of all people, the one who submits to the role that destiny had laid out for him feels so out of place for George’s work despite embracing the outward aesthetic of spooky dream magic. I’m very much not a fan of where this turned, when I was so enjoying the majority of Harrenhal scenes before this.

[@unc54]

I don't like that they forced a GoT connection but I feel Daemon was already changed when Broome talked to him. And Alys even says it's only because he's changed that she's willing to show him that vision. Daemon at the beginning of the season would have scoffed at it or it would have given him a sense of elevated importance. But I do agree it would been stronger to just not have Daemon have that final vision and have him swear to Rhaenyra when she arrives.

[@irredeemableTFT]

Not really sure what is so hard to understand that it's just a matter of preference, it's not bad writing. Leaving the question on whether daemon would be willing to fully submit to Rhae without seeing the vision ambiguous is a stylistic choice. It can be argued that yes, perhaps he would have regardless, or the stronger version being that he needed to see those visions to change enough for him to be willing to accept the prophecy and be the man he needs to become. That doesn't take away from his character. He still had to change. Daemon who arrived at harrenhal wouldn't accept and be the mane he needed to be without the prior visions. It's not bad writing. It's style.

[@LarthV]

Exactly. Assuming Episode 2 Daemon would have just had the weirwood and changed his mind is ... a strech. He had to change his mind _first_

[@authorfarrell7161]

We know what Daemon's answer to the visions would be if he hadn't had a season of development. Rhaenyra tried explaining it to him in the last finale and he throttled her saying dreams were bullshit.

[@MissyAmy88]

Ulf was my favourite this episode.

[@DarkKing009]

Show Alicent betraying everyone because she's obsessed with her old bestie. Show Alicent was trifling for backtracking.

[@shini1908]

On the Aegon scene: i think it was a realistic depiction of someone who has completely lost hope, when i was young i had cancer and had moment just like this when you start to name all the things that are wrong with you or you will never have as if to plung yourself deeper into sadness because you really cant see things getting better. So in my opinion it was a beautiful scene with larrys, who already came to term with what he is and aegon, still struggling to accept it.

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

I expected nothing, and I was still let down.

[@ShameenYakubu]

Same. Garbage

[@Hero_Of_Old]

So what was the point of Larys and Allicent in season 1?

[@matthewnicholls3258]

The foot scene geez that episode was a mess lol

[@RabidNemo]

I have to say I honestly think the people calling for Dave and Dan to come back are just trolling

[@santiagovera416]

This season was missing a dreaded episode 9. The writer's strike made the season two episodes short.

[@justinpachi3707]

The writing is so bad it completed Allicent's character assassination turning her into a kinslayer arguably more evil and vile than anime villain Aemond. She basically sold out her sons (including Daeron), her granddaughter, her father, her brother, and even her supposed lover Cole. She has no reason to do this when everything Otto prophecized in Season 1 is happening now. Daemon killed her grandson and now Rhaenyra's demanding the murder of Aegon the one who didn't want the throne, the one who Allicent put on the throne in the first place.

[@dom9041543]

She only sold every Male loved one. She asked Rhaenyra to spare only herself, jaehera and Helena. Then afterwards asked Rhaenyra to come with her.

[@authorfarrell7161]

Her magical thinking is that Aemond and Daeron will lay down their swords if Rhaenyra takes the throne. Rhaenyra is pointing 7 nukes at her so she cut a deal

[@mcbeaty3971]

When she asked for Aegon‘s head I expected Alicent to say Otto was right about her.

[@FC-yj1wd]

Alicent is somehow dumber and a worse mother than Cersei. How can she think Rhaenyra will let her father, Daeron, and her brother live? And if women are now valid heirs, Helaena and her daughter are just as much of a threat as her sons.

[@LarthV]

Her father? No chance. Her brother? Why not, he was not a significant player. And that chance might be better than a battle against several new dragon riders. Daeron? More of a stretch, but still better than fighting so many dragons. Helaena and Jaehaera? They have no claim. Their side specifically needed to dismiss women's right to inherit. How should people who said Rhaenyra could not inherit because she was a woman support Jaehaera?

[@alanpennie8013]

​@LarthV Rhaenyra put it clearly. Aegon has to die because he usurped her throne. No one else needs to die though Aemond is becoming a threat to the realm.

[@hlipscomb18]

Carmine, what do you think was that creepy creature that was walking to the tree when Daemon was walking to it? What do you think it means?

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

They're Green Men that, in ancient times, were the guardians of the God's Eye (that little island with all the weirwood trees that you see near Harrenhal when Rhaenyra flies towards it). Some believe they are horned and have dark, green skin.

[@TH3DUDE0075]

I really don’t like being right on this one because I love this series but it really looks like wokeness in the writers room damaging another series. Most of the issues can be traced back to them trying so hard to make Rhaenyra and Alicent the good guys who are just manipulated or harmed by evil men. It is so unrealistic that Rhaenyra wouldn’t immediately want fire and blood after Luke’s death - it is obvious the writers are mostly single/childless and probably cat ladies because no mother would react this way.

[@NM-iw7kj]

After watching the full season it really feels like there are two final episodes missing to make it complete. The season finale we got would have been great as a setup for episodes 9 und 10, featuring the Battle of the Gullet and the fall of Kings Landing. Now we have to wait two years on a cliffhanger, which just isn't worth it. It seems like the show runners sacrificed season 2 to make season 3 as great and big as possible and I understand why it frustrates the fanbase. Season 2 was not bad at all, but it was too much setup for a season that should have developed the plot way further and quicker

[@ryanlion512]

They cut Cregan tho

[@theprimo100]

IMHO, the Alicent situation on Dragonstone is the only real problem I had. That, and the missing final 2 episodes (but that's on HBO). I would've preferred to have Nettles, but as much as some might deny it, having Rhaena in that role does make sense, both because she's an already established character, and because book Rhaena doesn't do anything at all until after the war. But still, Nettles shouldn't have been cut.

[@Oxcymoron]

I stared at my tv the way Jace stared at Ulf at the dinner table. Almost nothing worked for me and it made the previous 3 episodes seem even more redundant.

[@rohaankhan7523]

What they could have done with alicent was to have her do some sort of schemeing through out kings landing and other Kingdoms with lary after blood and cheese instead of her going through her hannah baker arc

[@discohospital]

During the writers strike Hot D could continue filming as the script was already written, but it could not be adjusted during filming, so they had to stick to what they had from day one. I’m guessing that’s why it played out the way it did all season.

[@efrent-vr3bm]

If they’re going to make us wait 2 years again. They better have at least 3 big episodes in s3

[@NM-iw7kj]

With all the plot points they need to feature from the book season 3 should have more action than all of Game of Thrones combined 😂

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@NM-iw7kj watch them decide to have 50% of all that action go down off screen lmao

[@Competentetyler]

GoT finale’s typically follow this blueprint with some exceptions. Second to last episode is normally the big climactic moment, with some resolution/aftermath/set up for the finale/next season. HoTD did it a bit different Season 1, but Episode 7/8 in S1 were kinda like a split episode (one of Team Green POV and one of Team Black POV). I think we’re a mature enough audience to need a throw it in “cliffhanger” each season, right?

[@TimothyDunn-dp4cc]

So are they trying to set up Daemond as the first ‘ blood raven ‘ , and he then recruits blood raven , who recruits bran ? If not you heard it here first …

[@Marlboro-lights1]

Making aegon a SAer and abuser, making Alicent a constant victim of SA from larys, making aemond a cartoon villain, and coryls ignoring Rhaenyra essentially ending his entire line, destroyed this show. This was all done to paint the “team sports” narrative, which then ran out of control on social media, which in turn led to the writers pandering to the vocal fanbase for “team black” there is no saving this show now. Next season could be a good show, but it won’t be house if the dragon. It will be fan fiction. The whole prophecy angle is a joke. We know his this ends! With a horse faced stark girl named Arya.

[@Mike90317]

Episode 4, payed off episodes 1-3; episode 8 felt like part 1 of this season's conclusion. No we wait.

[@AmethystEyes]

Did Criston threaten Gwayne to take Alicent’s reputation down with him? When you think he can’t go any lower…

[@thedopaminestop2355]

Now we wait 2 years 😃

[@StrayCat-Tama]

Wait, did Rhena just ditch those kids she was supposed to be taking care of? Lol

[@dww6]

Season 8 probably doesn't seem as bad if you binge watch the entire series and weren't waiting 2 years.

[@pbh9195]

They couldn't even end with a cliffhanger with Rheanyras youngest son disappearing That would actually be a good leadup to battle of gullet next season

[@Scrowlock12]

In defense of D&D they were great at adapting. Fire and Blood is a finished work unlike A Song of Ice and Fire. I can see some validation why some would want them back; however, I do not

[@Staticjokes]

I have a feeling that they didnt have Rhae take kings landing this season because they want to have her lose jace at the same time. She wants to take kings landing with no loss of innocent life & I think she will get her wish & it'll be juxtaposed by her losing jace (and technically visarys) at the battle of the gullet. They ended the last season with her losing luke so maybe they didnt want a repeat of that.

[@franklyn2661]

Jesus Christ I'm putting all my faith in Dunk & Egg. HBO MAKE IT HAPPEEEEEEEEEEEEN

[@joaquinortizblanco]

They really lacked those last two episodes. And worst, season 3 is gonna be eight episodes of events that would fit in only two

[@craigwelch4597]

That’s what I’m noticing too! The show seems to be purposely stretching out the stories lines. This is badly hurting the story telling & the overall product. Will Season 3 not have a payoff either? Is that the plan? Keep kicking the can & watering down the product.

[@BDawg-hy7pl]

Bringing d&d back would just make things worse. Have we forgotten season 8?

[@dw1419]

You will never catch me defending those two, but the people who are saying bring D&D back (in a trolling manner most likely) are pointing out that Condal and co. actually have a finished story to work with unlike D&D.

[@asherahstruebornson5971]

Condal doesn't care about Daemon. He wanted to see the Ghost of High Heart give Rhaegar Targaryen visions and prophecies of fathering Azor Ahai to prepare for the long night and support his true queen. He's on a mission to put things in the show canon that were missing like Sansa dreaming of a Lannister golden arrow killing the stag and true knights doing no harm. He even wanted to have the character with his face cut off observe the smallfolk are fools for loving the queen when it was her side that blocked the food (search Storm for roseroad).

[@t1nma5k22]

HUGE SHOUTOUT TO Rhaena's eyeballs 👀👀

[@iliaponomarev1624]

It's pretty obvious HBO made them stretch the material and squeeze in Game of Thrones references.

[@SilverScale.]

Disagree on Daemon's tree vision. It's not substitute for character development. The previous visions brought him around to realize he doesn't want the throne. The tree vision gave him a PURPOSE. So it was several visions to realize "I don't want this" and 1 to realize "... But THIS is what I gotta do instead." He still had free will to do whatever he wants about the vision. He chose to step up. He's not an automaton where you put in a vision like a coin and he does a dance. He has choice.

[@ItachiUchiha-ut6xj]

Aegon's conquest and Roberts Rebellion are both way more interesting than the Targaryen civil war.

[@ltbraca470]

The book nerd in me will never forgive D&D.

[@Longshanks1690]

I really don’t understand what their vendetta against Alicent is. Daemon stans whine that Hess doesn’t like Daemon but he’s a murderous, unhinged, racist, incestous nonce, that dislike makes sense. But Alicent? She was a 15 year old girl forced into a marriage she didn’t want that destroyed the only friendship she cared about, and that deepening divide pitted Alicent’s love for her friend against her children. She was a tragic, layered, complex character who had her own motivations and story to tell which mirrored Rhaenyra despite being outwardly dissimilar from her… in season one. In season two, she’s worse than Cersei. A hypocritical, drunken sex addict who yearns for power while having no clue what she would actually do with it. And maybe that would be fine if she at least loved her kids like in S1, but she doesn’t, she hates them. Where she once was furious on Aemond’s behalf and was the only one who stood up for him, now she despises him. Where once she craved a relationship with Aegon, now she spurns him at every turn, up to and including allowing Rhaenyra *TO MURDER HIM* just so she and Helaena can escape. And man, what about Helaena? She’s so forgiving of Daemon she doesn’t even care he had her son killed. And they seem to think that Olivia Cooke being an S Tier actress who plays the part excellently with the puppy eyes and occasional finger bite makes up for all that character assassination? No. It doesn’t. That final scene butchered her, and made her an irredeemable monster who sold out her family for no reason, not even protesting that a son had already been taken in Jaehaerys, who she once felt guilt over since her lust made her think she was responsible, but now doesn’t even remember he existed. I do not have the words to express how much I despise that development to her character, when I loved her S1 portrayal so dearly.

[@Backdyre]

@@Longshanks1690 The show-runners favor team black, it’s a simple as that, they always have.

[@LarthV]

Technically, Aegon might feel like a kind of mercy killing to her...

[@JacobTemplar]

I cringe to think about people saying the ending of GOT wasn’t that bad one day

[@samadjibogoun9240]

Already saw someone say they would rewatch s8 of GOT on repeat than to watch s2 HOTD again. This season def was far from perfect but that take was so braindead

[@bolblizt]

Don't ask them to come back please. They'll short it again.

[@dariusshams962]

The weakest episode of the season? Not even close, however, they could have had 10 episodes instead of 8.. imagine if ep 9 and 10 were a part 1 and part 2, covering the Blacks siege of kings landing

[@tobiverrum]

I thought that Daemons visions were good but perhaps lasted 2 episodes too long. I’m not a fan of the deciding factor being a vision of the white walkers tho. I wouldn’t mind if it was merely the three eyed crow, and then maybe hints of the Blackfyres. Let it be something regarding daemons character, something that pertains to him, and have alys merely guide him to see it but not know it herself. I also thought they’d do more with his constant thoughts of his daughters and his guilt but that felt more like a general sense of guilt which is fine but wasn’t phenomenal. I enjoyed the first Rhaenyra Alicent scene but I think the writers forgot to give us a believable reason why Alicent would actually reflect on herself. It could make sense for her character if we didn’t see her in season 1 doubling down for years, only for this season to sell her family short. She literally stood between herself and Maelys to protect Aegon, and all of sudden she's ready to sell him out? Ultimately most of Rhaenyras stuff felt clunky and clumsy, well most of dragonstone/Jace stuff felt like it. The greens as a whole were much better this season, they made me feel something for Aegon, which is good! And then they did virtually nothing with Haleana, and then Aemond as well. I did like Aemond when in scenes with Aegon but not much else after that, same with Larys. As much as I would like a big cast of characters I think they struggling to do a lot of interesting stuff with the characters they barely have. I understand the need for changes with adaptations. I get that they changed the underlying motivations for the dance to be about Rhaenyra and Alicent, but I think the writers must have forgotten what comes after season 1 because all of season 2 for those two felt very poorly written. I get the idea, but man does it feel like it fails in its execution. Them having less episodes to work on the show, and seeing some of the criticisms of season 1 (the pace is too fast) made them try to course correct by slowing things down to get to know the characters more. But I think it was too late. And the few characters that have been well written, either had an arc that went on for too long, or an none existent arc that kind of assassinated their character. I think the writers thought they hit gold and pivoted to the show being about Rhae and Allic, but somehow destroyed any aspect of that being interesting by trying to make Allicent do a 180 and hate her children so much so that she would throw them to the alligators if she could. Its not that I don't think Allicent season 1 can become this character, but they don't really try to give her an arc, its just a flip flop, which was neither interesting or engaging. At the heart of GRRM's stuff is the characters stuff. "The heart in contest with itself". Its not that I don't think Allicent can change, but I think an Allicent who would double down and try to make things work, to try to reach out and share some sort of connection with her children, to feel it for a moment and then see it disappear. She was ultimately indifferent to them, she was still growing up when she had Aegon, I don't think people really fault her too much for it given she was essentially sold as a wife. But in this hypothetical scenario. having her essentially bury her feet and now make an attachment with them, however flawed they are. So it can be broken later would make things so much more interesting. Instead we get her peering at the screen disassociating, then her going to say sorry to Rhaenyra, and its just so empty. It doesn't work!!

[@ShameenYakubu]

The problem is the set up wasn’t even good. It was mediocre as hell

[@cucuchurro9440]

The worst part is that i think them putting the whole white walker and daenerys thing vision was just for fanservice, otherwise why would you put that shit there? The white walker/ prince that was promised plot ended being shit that didn't matter matter and no one liked.

[@creationfied]

not enough material to work with wouldnt be a problem if they can fill in the gaps the story left behind well

[@ml.9417]

The people off handedly sayin they miss D&D are either just crazy or talking out of their ass for the moment lol.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

also true

[@buddyfats4768]

I don't miss D&D but I think they are better writers than Condal

[@ryanrogers2224]

@@OfficialRedTeamReviewalso true is that they all live in the blue eye of a giant named Macomber. #OldNanPlannedItAll

[@jdh5224]

The character assassination in this episode is next level, I've never seen so many character arcs butchered in a single episode since GOT S8.

[@Zero_2500]

This was season 7 of GOT. All the signs are there - teleporting characters, plot lines that don’t go anywhere, action and acting carrying the show, etc. If I were GRRM and I wanted to continue making television series I would get my fat ass in the writers room. He sure as hell isn’t working on the book all of us want to read - he could at least give us a good adaptation of what he already finished. This season was poorly adapted and the white worm is the worst actor and character in the entire franchise.

[@abdallaha92]

All I can say is season 3 is gonna be crazy. The pieces are set. Time for some battles, battles, battles

[@Fireground42]

Remember people saying this about Season 2 after Lucerys death? Lol

[@abdallaha92]

@@Fireground42 True but there was always going to be a setup that needed to happen. I was more than happy with Blood & Cheese, and the forming of the factions. They probably could have speeded it up tho.

[@BlackBeard-lh3mu]

​@@abdallaha92We are not paying them for f*cking setups....if they are taking our money then we want politics,drama and action

[@zarombiste9158]

Bro this is other audience then in got era.. new audience that came to age doesn’t know the scope of this historic fail that last got seasons were and now when they watch them, they like it. They never read the books, for them got was great to the last season and they think hotd is boring in comparison

[@user-dv3fi7zs3t]

How dare people like things you didn’t

[@juanignacioordoqui7539]

Elio Garcia from Westeros org words : "It was supposed to be a 10 episode season. A month before filming, after 8 months of writing, HBO told them to cut episodes. Then the writer's strike started three months later, so the writers couldn't work during filming to reorganize things. So, yeah, HBO shot themselves in a foot with people who are bothered by this aspect of the season."

[@wesche7916]

This ep was ok. Good not great . I can understand why Time Warner wanted to extend or set up season 3. GoT in the best thing they have currently. Knight will hold us in 2025 because we will be back for more in 2026 for HoTD. Looking forward to your season 2 full review.

[@theletterm5425]

"George has never used prophecy as a substitute for character development" Maggy the Frog prophecy, anyone?

[@LarthV]

Or Rhaegar Targaryen?

[@StefunnyStrange]

I’m frustrated. I wish the show runners would STOP bringing up the white walkers! We all know that the white walkers were defeated in LITERAL HOURS and by a 90 pound little girl with a dagger no less, so the writers reminding us of this constantly just HURTS! In season 1 this show was removing the stain of season 8 of GOT but now Condal or HBO is trying to make this show Game of Thrones and I can’t take it! And I can’t watch Rhaenyra anymore either. This isn’t the Rhaenyra from the book. Lord knows why the writers thought a more peaceful, calm, rational Rhaenyra would be more entertaining than the Rhaenyra GRRM crafted. The woman lost her son, lost her throne, lost Rhaenys, lost her father, lost her baby and came within an inch of being ASSASSINATED and that STILL wasn’t enough for her to want blood or to become a bit ruthless. I don’t need her to be the mad king but it doesn’t even seem like a lot of those events happened because she barely reacts to them or she reacts once or twice in an episode, and then it’s dropped. They constantly tease fans with these “mad queen” face expressions she keeps making and pretending that she has become dark, having her glare into the camera or glare at Aemond like sh*t is about to POP OFF, only for us to learn a few scenes later that she actually still wants no bloodshed. Corlys had to CONVINCE her to fight FFS! Like, f*ck me. Rhaenyra actually said that she had just planned on using her newly gained dragons as a deterrence for Aemond. A F*CKING DETTERENCE. END ME ALREADY. Many characters just aren’t allowed to change this season. For instance, by the end of the season, I had FORGOTTEN that Jahaerys was murdered! The green characters just act like that never even happened after the second episode or so. I’m just not feeling the impact of that death. Moreover, 15-20% of the episode was focused on Tyland and a girl boss androgynous pirate who no one gives two sh*ts about! The pirate seemed cartoonish to me. But maybe that’s because they chose to put it in the FINALE of all places! It would’ve been better to spread that out through the season and I would’ve been fine with the pirate. But since it was in the finale, I was looking at my watch during those scenes thinking “WE DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS! Why am I watching Tyland wrestle in a mud pit with some pirate when there is so much more important sh*t to cover?!” And I don’t care about Rhaena either. She makes the same damn pikachu face all season and we’ve ALREADY seen the storyline of a Targaryen child being belittled because they don’t have a dragon and then gaining a dragon, and that child’s name was AEMOND! Why would I want to see that similar storyline again with Rhaena? Just claim a dragon or don’t! They’ve dedicated like 5 scenes to this! I don’t care anymore. I hope Sheepstealer EATS her. At least that would add a little more excitement and shock to the show. Who TF thought a made up Rhaena plot would be more entertaining than seeing Nettles? Ryan Condal is starting to remind me of D&D where he writes to spite the fans or the subvert expectations to be a creative genius, and not to please or give the fans the most faithful adaption as possible. He is coming off as little big-headed. We wanted Fire & Blood, not a Ryan Condal original story using Fire & Blood characters! Some liberties taken with the story are fine but he went too far in season 2. The hubris of this man or of HBO… especially given what happened in Game of Thrones. I see no lessons were learned there, huh? I cautioned fans all season to wait for the finale before passing judgement and now I have egg on my face. Ryan Condal, make this right! I’m starting to miss Miguel Sapochnik…Give that man a bag of money, meet his other demands and BRING HIM BACK. I haven’t given up on the show yet but they better fix this sh*t in season 3.

[@princeprocrastinate6485]

It would be funny if after all of that, Rhaena ends up not getting Sheepstealer, they introduce Nettles who gets that dragon instead, and once Rhaena finally chills out and accepts her role as chaperone, a dragon egg hatches for her and she gets Morning as she does in the books.

[@DarkKing009]

With a family like this you don't need enemies

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

Aemond is supposed to be the crazy violent one but because Alicent is so dumb now he seems like the reasonable one. Alicent should've jumped. (It would save the finale) Daemyra was fine minus ASOIAF like you said. Cole and Gwayne was good and made some sense. Funny doomer moment. Alyn was good. "Realm's delight" represents all the love from people and his parents Aegon would've reasonably expected as the eldest prince or even just as their son but it all went to Rhaenyra instead. He says it kinda mockingly too. I thought it was fine. Helaena's Aemond scene was fine if you remove the implication that she was actually talking to Daemon just previously. Otherwise it was bad. But, I think was saying the words in Daemon's visions because she's associated with prophecy and dragon dreams, not that she was actually talking to him. Regarding D&D they adapted 4 seasons well and nailed the medieval political intrigue which was always the best aspect of GOT and what HOTD needs, not the fantasy part. As for Star Wars, people disliked the prequels mainly for directing reasons like bad dialogue. The story and it's symbolism were great. The lore didn't contradict what was already established and at the end of the day, it was George Lucas's vision.

[@alexmars1511]

Allison teleporting then not taken hostage was a fumble for team black

[@LarthV]

They could, but nobody would have cared - that's how I explain it to myself. Might be grasping, but Allison went because she thought she would not be worth becoming a hostage and took a shot, and Rhaenyra thought "Well, if she came, I guess nobody cares enough. And also we were besties once. And she did not take me hostage. Guess that's enough."

[@henrysheppard3433]

Rhaenyra being captured at kings landing talking to allicent made more sense We have twighlight writers here