How a US Crackdown on Chips in China hits Europe

[@stc2828]

America is building a wall and EU is paying 🤣

[@AP-ei4jt]

Huawei is already marching from 7nm to 5nm. Crack down on what? People have lost their minds completely.

[@peternicholls50]

Huawei marching ?!!! Without Western supervision [at shop floor base-level manufacturing] China has no quality awareness or designs , Fifty years and the pattern is the same .."Make cheap - make weak - make money" Eyes are open in the West our money and trust has been taken and we are finding new partners , China is finished here !!!!! Granted China will bribe certain Governmemts [Hungary et al] to allow plants to be built but sentiment against China is massive now !!! European and American ...

[@fofoqueiro5524]

Fun fact, US used to think they can crack down China's space program.

[@miltonlai4850]

US made a cage only to lock themselves from the world

[@stuffstoconsider3516]

But we are talking about EUV lithography; this is a whole new level.

[@DccAnh]

@@stuffstoconsider3516 won't be any different, if China can't get something from the outside, then they'll make their own, just like the space station, usa forgot that China is a whole continent by themselves, they happy to work with the outside world for mutual benefits yes, but when push come to shove, they can easily be self sufficient, like they have always been for thousands of years.

[@narf0339]

they succeeded in preventing china from landing on the sun.

[@chongzhouliu7893]

@@stuffstoconsider3516 what level?made by god?

[@happymelon7129]

Winners Focus on Winning, Losers Focus on Winners

[@mchammer3927]

So what we are saying is we are scared off competition , free trade and already lost .....

[@DW-op7ly]

That’s about it…. And it’s not even working As the Chinese who didn’t really have a semiconductor manufacturing industry Is now poised to dominate the legacy chip market

[@peternicholls50]

You need to read up a little friend ... China has blindsided the naive !!!!

[@DineshTwanabasu]

To be enemy is dangerous but to be friend is fetal

[@Curiousinternetperaon]

"Fetal"? 🤨

[@dub604]

@@Curiousinternetperaon Yeah, I thought that was a bit childish. 😂

[@IdeoControl]

@@Curiousinternetperaonfatal (typo)

[@Omegacrafton]

😂😂😂

[@chongzhouliu7893]

America has no friends, only cannon fodder

[@happymelon7129]

Coercing other countries to suppress China’s semiconductor industry. Sad for Japan(Tokyo electronics) and Netherlands(ASML)

[@fofoqueiro5524]

Puppy countries never complain.

[@eugenec7130]

We are just watching a show. Let the show go on. We will know who the losers are at the end of the show.

[@wusue4875]

Why does Europe needs security guarantee from the US? Otherwise US will bring insecurity to it?

[@user-it8gk3ke7h]

thats the perk from being a lapdog. 😂😂😂

[@jw999]

Sooner or later China will figure out how to build its own advanced chips... Then what do we do??

[@JigilJigil]

They wouldn't, it's beyond them, they were supposed to be the leader in quantum computing and now we know for a fact that they are at least 15 years behind US and 7 years behind Europe, despite the fact that they've spent 5 times more.

[@JigilJigil]

And keep in mind that Xina has spent over $100 billion during the last 4 decades to make itself a domestic airliner, failure after failure, they ended up with asking the Americans and the Europeans to make them one, (the Comac), and the result is an airliner with 70% of its part coming for US and Europe, despite all the efforts by Xina to make them domestically. (IP theft, foreign talent recuritment, tech transfer,....).

[@michaelrobinson3734]

@@JigilJigil Keep believing that lie

[@yuxiangluo8614]

@@JigilJigilkeep dreaming. check out the latest American quantum experts' comments on China.

[@JigilJigil]

​@@michaelrobinson3734 Yes, US has two companies with two 1,121 qbits computers with distinct technologies and 1386+ qbits systems under development, meanwhile Xino is badly struggling with a high error 75 qbit system.

[@kmich7660]

Why did Henry Kissinger once say, "To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal"? This is why.😊

[@andrean2247]

Paying obedience tax to US.

[@pgdaszzz7399]

I tell you why U.S will fail on this: 1.The trending generative AI is based on GPU, not CPU. 2.GPU's bio-system is way simpler than CPU, GPGPU only does tensor calculation, and it has no other purpose. It cannot r/w hard drives, it cannot send request to internet. To build that chip is not difficult for China. What China cannot handle is to replicate a PC CPU-OS-APP bio-system, and CPU is way more complex than GPU. 3.Even if China cannot make GAA or cutting edge FINFET chips, China could just rely on its massive power grid to support dozens of data centers powered with previous generation Chips for big corps. 4.If the recent massive subsidies from white house to INTC/NVDA/AMD cannot turn into massive interest support by massive market, the U.S will risk over-production of Chips, which in turn will causing chip price to fall.

[@terencetong4896]

Huh ? You think US cares about Europe ?

[@greentraveler4114]

Everyone now talk about enemy, why can't we live peacefully together, trade with each other is good thing but politicians are making trade among different countries so difficult.

[@hengongchua6250]

Not everybody. China never talks about the enemy or treats others as an enemy. China just wanted to trade and prosper for the betterment of the Chinese people and all nations of the world. It is those that are jealous of China achievements and success and couldn't compete with China see China as an enemy.

[@keyboardmanyoutube3189]

Because all they know is 0-sum game… they don’t know cooperation and win win

[@hkraytai]

China tech will out pace the world unless it’s put down. China with its huge population has a modern power grid that supports an all EV infrastructure something the West hasn’t started to develop so they are already a generation ahead. AI is what drives that infrastructure but they don’t have powerful chips the type Nvidia is producing but they will unless stopped.

[@hengongchua6250]

@@hkraytai ,it is not because China has huge population. If China success is because of huge population. India population is now bigger than China but they have not even achieved half of what China has achieved. Why is that so?

[@hkraytai]

@@hengongchua6250 Different cultures have different priorities and values.

[@anguianoalan100]

You know US sanctions against China will work in the short to medium term but will fail in the long term and we are seeing that already more and more chip companies focus R&D to be outside the US to be able to sell to anyone without having to deal with US sanctions and this is forcing Chinese companies and the Chinese gov to dump billions into chip R&D and it’s also having a lot of Chinese expats who work in the chip industry go back to the mainland to help grow the industry as well as foreigners who are drawn in by the high pay been offered

[@JigilJigil]

No, it won't, Xina has spent over $100 billion during the last 4 decades to make itself a domestic airliner, failure after failure, they ended up with asking the Americans and the Europeans to make them one, (the Comac), and the result is an airliner with 70% of its part coming for US and Europe, despite all the efforts by Xina to make them domestically. (IP theft, foreign talent recuritment, tech transfer,....).

[@DW-op7ly]

@@JigilJigil ​​⁠You have no clue what you are talking about just giving f ache News talking points The Chinese had “virtually” no chip making ability/foundries 6 years ago thanks to the USA who did the job for the Chinese Where their Government was trying to get their people to switch to homegrown chips before the sanctions China is now expected to take over those legacy chip markets If the USA was smarter instead of cutting off China from semiconductor chips and equipment for manufacturing They should have themselves and their allies, lowered prices even more, and dump even more chips on China Instead their idea was to force the hand of Chinese people at the time content with cheap imported chips. Hope they could not innovate When there is now a 7 volume 27 book series on what China invented first that says the world copied from them And China leads the world in 37 of the 44 critical technologies of the future 🙄 At one point China was importing over 300 billion in chips a year Now they will probably be exporting around 200 billion dollars worth of their own homegrown chips per year, within the products they export 👇 How Close Is China to World Dominance in Legacy Semiconductors? 27-02-2024 | By Paul Whytock * Bread and Butter Technology Obviously, China would like to be a major player when it comes to high-end sophisticated semiconductor devices, but that doesn’t mean they are not interested in the bread-and-butter end of the market, particularly when it comes to legacy products. In fact, they are very interested in the legacy market, and there are some very good reasons why. Legacy devices make up a huge amount of global chip sales. Most chips manufactured today are not advanced chips but legacy chips, and around 71% of devices * China's Aggressive Expansion in the Semiconductor Industry In September 2023, Reuters reported that China was set to launch a new state-backed fund aimed at raising about €43bn to support its chip industry, and according to research analysts, the Rhodium Group, in less than ten years, China is expected to domestically add nearly as much 50-180nm wafer manufacturing capacity as the rest of the World. The views of industry analysts and observers vary, but generally speaking, it’s thought that 22 wafer fabs are being built in the country, and there is an overall plan to create a total of 30 new wafer fabrication plants. Many of these will concentrate on the production of legacy devices. As for market share, industry intelligence gatherers Trendforce believe China’s legacy chip manufacturing base could provide as much as 30% of the global demand for older devices. ElectroPages

[@DW-op7ly]

@@JigilJigil there is 27 books out there in what the Chinese invented in the past that says we copied from them These days China leads the world in 37 of 44 critical technologies of the future That’s how narrow minded we westerners are…. as we concentrate on the 7 technologies the Chinese are behind in conveniently overlooking the 37 technologies they lead the world in Take Semiconductors where they are behind …. we require their lithography machines to be 100% homegrown Which the Chinese have a 100% domestically made 28nm lithography machines that they can do that proprietary quadruple patterning Yet the difference is that world leading Dutch ASML company, sources 85% of in the parts from around the world, that go into their lithography machines While the Chinese lithography machines are 100% domestically made these days As for Chinese made domestic passenger planes? 👇 A Look at Boeing’s Outsourcing Strategy Moving up the “value chain” - and taking selected suppliers along for the ride Jim Destefani, Senior Editor, SME Media Mar 1, 2004 Updated May 20, 2024 At Boeing, about 65 - 70% of the content for a given airplane is procured from outside sources, according to Chuck Agne. A director of supplier management for Boeing’s Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) business, he’s an 18-year veteran of both the commercial and defense sides of the business. Advanced Manufacturing

[@wendali5980]

@@JigilJigil even through, there isn’t another country can build similar plane

[@JigilJigil]

@@kenbehrens5778 Sucking badly at R&D and innovating on their own.

[@alko_xo]

Free international trade has never been so free!

[@vlhc4642]

it actually has never been so free, China just logged $100 billion in trade surplus in 30 days, and semiconductor export make up a good part of this. lol

[@alko_xo]

@@vlhc4642 sure. You are absolutely right. And American customers must just pay 100% tariffs on Chinese EV (which are way more good and cheaper than you know what). That’s how free trade works. Yeah, God bless the United Shaish!

[@JigilJigil]

@@alko_xo no they are junk.

[@DW-op7ly]

@@JigilJigil Yeah let’s listen to what you have to say 👇 Chinese cars dominate latest safety ratings 03.04.2024 Six out of the 10 cars assessed as the safest on Europe’s roads are from Chinese manufacturers Sophus3 👇 BYD electric cars are regarded as one of the safest vehicles on the global market in 2023. This is because the Dolphin and Seal were recently released and therefore tested against the latest, strictest testing criteria by ANCAP and Euro NCAP.Mar 7, 2024 Compare the market 👇 Study shows BYD Seal and Dolphin are two of the world’s safest cars Reading Time: 3 minutes Mark Andrews March 13, 2024 The BYD Seal and Dolphin demonstrated high safety scores against the strictest 2023 testing criteria from Australasian and European safety authorities, in addition to universally standard safety assistance systems globally,” said Adrian Taylor, Compare the Market’s Executive General Manager of General Insurance. In the study by the car insurance experts 32 models available in most of six markets were examined across six data points. Countries looked at were Australia, New Zealand, Germany, the United Kingdom, United States and Canada and these markets are covered by three different safety authorities. To gain an overall safety rating the ratings of the three individual agencies were analyzed under Global New Car Assessment Programme (Global NCAP). In addition the study looked at whether key safety assistance systems were universally available on each model. CarNewsChina

[@yuxiangluo8614]

@@vlhc4642 Why you don't mention that the US digital and internet products dominate the European market with Google, twitter, facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Microsoft, Intel, oracle...... and grab hundreds of billions dollars every year from Europe?

[@yehuo2825]

are any tariffs working so far?

[@luffytaz5482]

It is only reasonable that the USA wants to and needs to defend its last frontier in the area of technology particularly in semi conductors. What they need to realise is that American tech companies were able to make leaps and bounds in the last couple of decades were also partly due to the help of China. Without the low cost manufacturing from China, US companies wouldn't be able to make the types of margins that they did. With increased profits more money can be spent on R&D thus technological advancement. I remember when Tesla started they had trouble making enough cars at a lower enough price to sell to the mass. It wasn't until they opened a giga factory in China that Tesla were able to reap the benefits of low cost production and as a result became one of the biggest and most profitable companies in the world. Europe would be wise not the take the route that the US is currently taking.

[@JohnJones-k9d]

Your clueless. This is EU and Japanese companies as the US does not have this tech, leading chip makers are not USA. Typical USA mentality, we can’t win wah wah wah. Karen’s all of you.

[@timomulder6548]

This will cost ASML billions of dollars of lost (potential) revenue 😮

[@SD-rednex]

And making a paying customer turn into a serious competitor

[@timomulder6548]

@@SD-rednex big dilemma indeed

[@JigilJigil]

@@SD-rednex Xynu won't able to make EUV ever.

[@keyboardmanyoutube3189]

@@JigilJigilwould you also say Huawei will never able to produce new phones?

[@philyhai]

ASML and TSMC are both tumbling today

[@thefourthrabbit9516]

Inconvenient for China. Deadly for Europe.

[@788RICKY]

US, only good in making potato chips.... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@artvandelay7236]

Tripling down on a losing strategy 😅

[@ob6842]

Let’s not talk about right or wrong but who’s running your country? So so proud to be a Chinese!! We are the only country can stand up to the US 👍👍

[@CKxperience]

India also

[@inetherlands1030]

US totally missed the semiconducter train. They failed long time ago and try to regain some influence now. I think its the other way around: USA needs TSMC, Tokyo Elektron and ASML more than they need USA

[@JigilJigil]

You have no idea what u are speaking about, US is still the leader in semiconductor industry, leading the world with design and EDA, equipment, innovation,.... those companies you mentioned are the ones who need US, TSMC is nothing but American semiconductor tools and equipment, let you remind you that even ASML EUV technology was originally developed by US consortiums of US privates companies and DOE National Labs, actually ASML joined the efforts later by getting a premision from US gov to be a part of the program (Nikon & Canon from Japan did same, but US gov denied and rejected their requests), then the technology was transfered to ASML, in addition to that even today the main and most complicated part of the EUV system which is its light source is still designed and built by an American company in US along with 1000s of other parts and components that come from US suppliers, in hypothetical sitaution, US is the only country in the world capable of designing and building its own EUV system while denying the ASML the technology it needs.

[@unrelatedcomment]

Nonsense. I know the asml zeiss success story. It cannot be claimed to be an American storyline.

[@JigilJigil]

@@unrelatedcomment Actually the technology behind Zeiss mirrors is tech transfer as well, long before Zeiss joning the program, Tinsley Labs (US) and Lawrence Livermore(US), AT&T Bell Labs (US) and NIST (US) were working on different aspects of the EUV aspherical mirror fabrication and meterology, they were able to achieve the nanoroughness below 1nm, (0.6 nm in mid 90s), and then the technology was transfered to Zeiss, and Tinsley Labs and Zeiss developed the technology together even further. (until the departure of Tinsley Labs), the work and the history of EUV mirror development are well documenated as well.

[@JigilJigil]

It seems my response got Csred so, another version: It was tech transfer as well. The early work on EUV aspherical mirror fabrication and meterology was done by Tinsley Labs- Lawrence Livermore-Bell Labs-NIST. Many key milestones were reached, including surface roughness-rms below 1nm, 0.6 nm in mid 90s. (Long before Zeiss) Zeiss joined the consortium. (EUV LLC in US) The technology was transfered for to Zeiss. Tinsley Labs-Ziess advanced the technology even further until the departure of Tinsley Labs. The work and history behind the EUV mirror development is actually well documented.

[@happymelon7129]

the main reason U$A will never able to compete in Chip manufacturing. All the country that do well in chip manufacturing , has Confucianism culture. For chip manufacturing, a high level of discipline is the key, and most Americans today don't possess it. They call it “forced labour" Taiwanese media reported on August 2 that TSMC claimed the production holdup at its Arizona facility was caused by a shortage of trained American labour and that they had sent staff from Taiwan to assist with the factory's development. Labour union officials in Arizona, on the other hand, criticised TSMC for exploiting this as a justification to bring in "low-wage foreign labour."

[@JW-jm5ll]

Do not kill the 500 brown bears in Romania; these animals are innocent life! May God bless these bears!

[@hitpat6179]

Does that make sense, according to the blacks law dictionary??? If the sharholders of a corporation, want to make a decision... WHY would it affect another corporation??? They are two separate entities!!

[@seanzn]

That's a simple question. Because most european countries are the affiliated states of the U.S. The U.S want Alstom, and they just take it, that's it.

[@LetoAtreides-i4c]

This may actually cause non-American companies to de-Americanize their products and technology.

[@dannyboy8850]

EU should run to its master for a dog bone. 😆😆😆

[@Kiwiadventurerandoverlander]

Bad move … more incentive for China to push harder for its own chip industry

[@nicb.1213]

The US is doing the impossible to catastrophic disaster.

[@JW-jm5ll]

Do not give up any chance to save a life!! may GOD bless you!!

[@ahmedhersi9169]

Usa behave is like kid.

[@满城風雪]

I feel sad for Japan (Tokyo Electron) and the Netherlands (ASML), their business operations have become tools or even victims of political struggles!

[@ws-jw1tv]

China has blocked the chip. Since it won't sell it to me, I will legislate to cancel all chip patents in the United States. China has the right to develop

[@bubblebobburst3502]

sunk cost fallacy

[@jimbrutan_senior]

It won't be good for the ordinary American & European consumers. Only benefits the legacy corporations.

[@phil488pista9]

This is way too funny, and the EU love it.

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

Eu is dying

[@tiagoqueiroz4453]

Long live the free market!

[@Ethian315]

Yawn....ASML stock crash 8 percent and yet someone in the comments keep saying ASML ceo said it's fine and US is backing ASML...with what? 34thrilion-and-counting debt?😂

[@hellonihaocomoestas]

this guy is not the best at explaining his points.

[@Wouter-j9t]

Waarom niet samengaan met elkaar en china en niet bang zijn zodat beurs omhoog gaat?

[@deepone5005]

Wait till the Chinese crack back at the US. 2 can tango.

[@DingDingTao]

chip, chip, chip, anything else?

[@user-it8gk3ke7h]

Cookie

[@samwisegamgee289]

China does not need the united states the american consumer loves china for its cheap labor and products I would like to know what it would cost to make an i phone in the u s a nd at what price it would be sold the american labor costs would go through the roof i bet and an i phone would be double or more what it is today

[@LuisSosa-n3f]

This all against of Free MARKET

[@lawrenceralph7481]

Is Europe stuck in the middle? Or a full beneficiary of western law, culture and security.

[@wutangtang8590]

there must to be some price you have to pay being a peppy dog.

[@lokesh303101]

Give Demand to other Asian Countries.

[@Aulder]

well biden wont be in office now lol.

[@qake2021]

🤣🤣🤣✌️🥸🥸🥸

[@DanBurgaud]

LOL!

[@kyawkyawaung498]

😃😃😃

[@alhkcblack9617]

😂😂😂

[@JigilJigil]

This is the right thing to do, ASML EUV technology was originally developed by US consortiums of US privates companies and DOE National Labs, actually ASML joined the efforts later by getting a premision from US gov to be a part of the program (Nikon & Canon from Japan did same, but US gov denied and rejected their requests), then the technology was transfered to ASML, in addition to that even today the main and most complicated part of the EUV system which is its light source is still designed and built by an American company in US along with 1000s of other parts and components that come from US suppliers, as well.

[@meegz149]

No its not. It’s just the U.S flailing and wanting to maintain its hegemony. Actually I just realized this is probably a pentagon/DNC troll.

[@meegz149]

@@JigilJigil I don’t know what that means, but anyone who bought into tech stocks recently (like after NVIDIAs stock split) are going to be out lots of money. People who are too poor to invest and really have not much of a social life are the people who support these sorts of these decisions, which a just confirm a declining hegemon.

[@meegz149]

@@JigilJigil I don’t know what that means, but anyone who bought into tech stocks recently (like after NVIDIAs stock split) are going to be out lots of money. Those who are too poor to invest and really just attach themselves to weird causes well adjusted people don’t care about are the ones who support these sorts of policies, which a just confirm a declining hegemon.

[@jw999]

So why don't we build our own American competitor of ASML??

[@JigilJigil]

@@meegz149 I'm sorry, I misread\misunderstood your first comment, I've deleted my comment.

[@terencetong4896]

I am so looking forward for Trump tariff

[@rebeccaaldrich3396]

Xi Jin-Pig is intensely negative for China! 😂

[@oemcargps]

What's that suppose to mean? USA wouldn't deny china access to high end chips if Xi is down ?

[@Truthstelling]

make sure you get paid for saying this. Don't do this for nothing🤣🤣🤣

[@石东岳-h2w]

What did China do to this poor old American woman that she hates China so much?

[@rebeccaaldrich3396]

@@Truthstelling my payment is the satisfaction I get from the responses, positive and negative.

[@石东岳-h2w]

@@rebeccaaldrich3396 Masochistic tendencies！

[@lastChang]

The ban on semiconductor exports to China 🇨🇳 is one of the most important policy moves of *the century.* - The Chinese regime is still trying to figure out *what is going on.*

[@remix-yy1hs]

You really have no life. Fat white dude in the basement

[@huanghermann5207]

You are a bot everywhere to promote your anti-China agenda. I wonder how much fund you have secured from CIA.

[@AlejandroPikoulasPlata]

The dumbest bot spreading fake news came out.

[@elchinas]

Hello Gordan Chang?

[@Ethian315]

Are you stuck in another dimension or what? Hahahaha China is only puzzled by why are they so stupid.

[@hypocritehater1673]

No matter who the president and vice president are for China is like "THE DOGS BARK BUT THE CARAVAN MOVES ON"

[@davidwong325]

你们就特么不会合作共赢么，非要搞丛林那一套，很低级的文明。

[@yangli8147]

哪里都一样，在中国也一样这么搞，不要把自己想的太清高，现在就是春秋战国，中国是不起眼放马的秦国，变成统一六国的秦国

[@Maplin-Ma]

夷狄畏威而不怀德， 一步步来吧。

[@jattjamesbond1122]

For every competitive successful industry of China Europe is concerned about overcapacity 😂

[@JimboJones-ld7el]

What have we become