How activists are greening Sweden's logging industry | Focus on Europe

[@toms5996]

As a Finn I haven't really payed attention to our Nordic neighbours. Cutting down forest's is always a sensitive subject - how the forest will regrow etc. In the case of Finland the EU actually wants to reverse how our forests grow and 'restore'. That would mean changing forests back to swamp. In Finland we never cut old forests without a reason. (Europeans in general need to understand that 'forests' are not necessarily a 'natural' thing in the Nordics - we have cultivated them for a 1000 years.)

[@tosa305]

this is not true at all. Finns do exact the same as swedes. There is no more older forest left in Finland. The trees barely reach 80 years before they are cut down for landowners profit. Total destruction of the forests and still building more paper mills. To import cellulosa to China...

[@larsdahlen319]

The same in Sweden it just doesn't exist any natural forest . I have friends to have been stopped to cut down Forrest that was planted by my grand farther 1900. Motivation "Urskog" .

[@DragonsFan.]

Most Forest in Sweden was never planted !!! stop spreading lies. So many people just don't know anything. But there still a lot plantation's but not a lot compared to natural Forest

[@toms5996]

@@DragonsFan. Most forests are natural of course - I never said they weren't. But for example in Finland in the past 200 years a LOT of swamp land was dried and turned into forest. I'm referring to the new 'restoration directive' from EU that - in the case of Finland - would mean that huge areas of forest would be turned back to swamp by blocking water flow and drowning forests. That WOULD be natural but with the climate crisis is it sensible since a forest binds CO2 and produces wood as a byproduct. A bog does bind more CO2 than a forest but that would mean turning huge areas of forests into bogs and there would be no use for them for people - basically turning Nordics to a reservation. I have no answers without more knowledge and conversation.

[@onebridge7231]

@@toms5996 I’m surprised you have swamps and not peat bogs. I have seen other research of planned forest being restored back to bogs because the bogs capture more CO2 over the planned forest as the underlying root system turns over and becomes soil. I also always thought Finland and Sweden were 100% naturally forested. Always learning something new. 🤗🤓

[@mindymorgan7684]

Here in Germany Swabian Alb they've cut out all the old trees with the nice hard wood just to burn them in their fireplace, left thin young sticks that will break in high winds because the big old trees aren't there to shelter them. Also there are wide tracks in the forest like scars from big and heavy machinery. This is old forest management. A dense forest is cooler and retains more moisture which is vital in a warming climate.

[@larsdahlen319]

In northern Sweden it takes somewhere around 120 years before tree is cut down. When you take Forest down you also have to replant and that is also done in Sweden. Sweden had a energy crisis in the mid / end of the 17 hundred in major parts of Sweden the forest were gone used as coal for the Steel industry. That triggered replanting in large scale that still continue. Sweden do not really have any natural forest all is planted including forest that are well over hundred years . Just because a forest is old that does not mean that it is natural, just that it was planted long ago. The first ten to thirty years s planted forest looks planted but after that it starts to look natural . After while the generation that planted the forest are no longer with us . People tend to forget that it was their Grand farther's Farther that planted the forest that you grown upp with. If you walk through a Swedish forest you will find traces of the old landscape. You will find old stone walls, old field boundary's, old coal mills traces from the time that all possible land were under the plow or used by grazing cattle. About one and a half miljons Swedes left for the Americas because no more land were available. Since then vast areas of forest has been planted.

[@karinlindblom2934]

So because we didn't know better in the 18th century that makes it okay to do things that we today knows is bad?

[@larsdahlen319]

@@karinlindblom2934 So it is bad to replant the Forest ? The thing is that the forest taken down today where planted around 1900 . Sorry we do not have any wilderness in Sweden the turist sagen "Sweden the last European wilderness" is a bluff. Resultatet av den energi krisen som jag nämnde resulterade i bland annat kakelugnar för att spara ved. Men framförallt drev det fram lagar om återplantering efter avverkning . Det fanns helt enkelt ingen gammal skog kvar i Sverige i början på 1900-talet . Så det som du idag och även jag uppfattar som urskogar planterades kring 1900. 1903 kom det en lag om skogsplantering Skogen idag är altså ingen urskog utan är ett resultat av planteringar. Detta gäller även den fjällnära skogen den planterades under det klimat mässiga mildare tidsperioder. Kort sagt fortsätter man som idag kommer vi att få områden med äldre skog blandat med områden med yngre skog. I stort sett som det alltid varit.

[@NilsMueller]

In my country we still have native forest that is chopped every day

[@larsdahlen319]

@@NilsMueller And the forest grows in size ?

[@cancerino666]

@@karinlindblom2934 no. It means using the renewable resource of forests is better than the alternatives.

[@kalsarikannit9587]

I live in northern Sweden, and pretty much every forest here except for nature reserves are replanted and cut down ever since the early 1900's. It is sustainable and it is kind of similar to how we grow crops on fields. We try to do as little damage to the soil and avoid natural lakes and so on. We even leave a bunch of trees by ditches and waterways so the animals living there wont feel any difference.

As a swed I tank DW News for some good news reporting! Swedish news are mostly behind paywalls nowadays so me and many people dont get the news from "old media". Also Greenpeace reducing clear cutting is a very good thing, our wood industry is often seen as a good thing and it can be if taken care of and done sustainable but clear cutting is not something that is sustainable. Hopefully this improves our forest industry.

[@fynnschumann7661]

There are actually a lot of good documentaries concerning forestry on SVT play.

[@thomaskortvelyessy]

Looking closely, one can see the word "Sámi" in the name of the cooperative - but no other (verbal) mention by anyone in this report.

[@wildirishladdavy7965]

When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money.

[@DragonsFan.]

Thank you, I support that. Tack.

[@PizzaHomie]

Although I think the preservation of invaluable old growth forests is a tremendously important, for forests that are zoned for timber harvesting, forestry science shows that clear cutting is not so different from natural processes that occur. Over the course of extended periods of time, forests experience naturally occurring fires, erosion and landslides take out massive areas and high winds blow down large groups of trees. Still timber harvesting companies should be required to replace clear cut areas with saplings and show that the work they are doing is performed in the most sustainable manner with minimal environmental impact.

[@Munin497]

There is extensive regulation of these things in Sweden that have been adjusted for over a century. I pray the Germans are not gonna push some radical nonsense forest legislation on Sweden by means of the EU. Because that will cripple a pillar of the national economy while preserving no valuable areas of nature.

[@Rambling_Man]

Clear cutting is far from a natural process even if science shows this. What goes on under the ground is just as important as on top. If you want mushrooms etc to grow then the underground web or a Mycorrhizal network needs to be maintained otherwise an eco system is destroyed. Clear cuttings kills everything, natural processes as you outlined above allow layering and life to occur.

[@Zardeon]

Dude, it's literally the law that you have to replant forest that you cut down in Sweden... I've literally done it myself, it's a really common summer job here in northern Sweden, some of the forests I helped plant 15 years ago are growing really well.

[@karinlindblom2934]

There is one HUGE differens. When you remowe the trees after clear cutting you also remowes the valuable nutritians from that peace of land. That means that you in the long run depraves the ground

[@PizzaHomie]

@@Rambling_Man Good point! I just did a little bit of research regarding the effect of clear cutting on fungi because of your comment. Seems to have a relatively significant impact and takes a while to return to initial conditions. Makes sense. Still, don't the naturally occurring processes (fire, landslides, wind, disease,...) affect root systems and canopy shade? How do they affect the fungi networks you mentioned? I'm not against what you're saying. Just curious and I think the general public draws conclusions based solely on aesthetics without a deeper nuanced understanding.

[@ProductofNZ]

Felling trees on the land that they own. Land that will be replanted with the same trees, will be left for 30-40 years and then the process repeats. I think Greenpeace should put more focus on indiscriminate and illegal amazon destruction instead of this tree farm?

[@coraltown1]

DUMB ALERT LEVEL 5 !

[@ProductofNZ]

@@coraltown1 please enlighten me

[@peabase]

True, but the cycle is up to 120 years in the Nordic countries. A cold climate makes for slow growth.

[@Skogen594]

They don't own the land and even if they do they aren't allowed to destroy it. Sweden has to many villains working for the paper industry abd too many careless people.

[@attilaabonyi8879]

You do realize that greenpeace is an internationally recognised non profit activist organization? With thousands of people being a member or helping them?

[@funkmachine9094]

you can thank IKEA for this

[@jebbo-c1l]

Meanwhile Ikea illegally chops down some of Europe's last old forests in Romania

[@mileshigh1321]

I live in Nova Scotia Canada, and my province is being clear cut to provide bio mass for heating in Europe! We need help from Green Peace too!

[@Cybertruck_69]

Here in BC same problem. BC govt is allowing them to log for pellets when originally it was to be done from waste.

[@grrttr]

The reindeer levels are kept at completely unnatural levels. They eat all of lichen etc and cause more car damages than their meat is worth. Odd seeing greenpeace working together with a partner like that.

[@cancerino666]

Exactly! Sometimes I feel like Greenpeace protects what sounds good, not what is environmentally good.

[@cancerino666]

Whats the alternative? More concrete? We need to start planting and harvesting more trees.

[@fredmja97]

I'm not sure we're the greenpeace people get their information but they clearly know nothing of forestry. Cut down after 30-40 years? Must be the most productive soil in the world last time I checked the time span up there was more like 100-120 years

[@cherylcarlson3315]

30 yrs ago drove through Oregon and Washington state and was nauseated by the clear cutting, the creeks running brown with mud.Still upset by the thought and feeling like I couldn't do anything to stop it. US companies do not care what people think, want or what is good for the planet. I am glad somewhere on this planet there is a responsible CEO

[@larsdahlen319]

The difference between USA and Sweden is that you do not have a law of replanting. In Sweden you replant three plants for every tree you take down. But the most of the local population both in USA and Sweden are dependent of the logging industry.

[@amadeuz8161]

Look at most of Europe, you don't even have your forests left!!! That said the huge clear cuttings are bad and making most forest into economy forests ain't positive either, still all this is better than not having their forests at all. Yes it is a lot harder to forage today, yes it changes the nature, yes we don't have ancient forests left soon but still the companies here has to make profit somehow. The only solution is that every country brings back 70% of their forests and then we all can use less effective/profitable ways to harvest the forests. The demand is so high that we that have our forests left have to/benefits to do things like clear cutting and maximizing growth of harvest able trees. Before you say anything, I have driven from Finland to Italy to Slovenia and back up to Finland and it made me sad to see how your countries have cleared em all. Like I got happy again when we entered Slovenia, the border between Italy and Slovenia is fields of grapes -> trees. So instead of only trying to stop others from doing "not the best thing" for their forest, maybe fix your own forests. Then include the toxic chemicals that have been added to your areas where a forest grew back in the day... So is clear cuts really the biggest issue as long as they replant the trees. It is an issue but not close to the biggest one.

[@toms5996]

I have to give now my opinion as a Finn. All the Nordics countries have more forests now than in the past 200 years. In Finland the 'the cuts' are basically taking care of the forest - the forests rewens. It might be difficult for central Europeans to understand but without cuttings the forrest gets almost like a swamp with dead trees which certainly will not take CO2 from atmosphere.

[@Lajosen]

Correct and I Agree but companies plan to cut down large parts of urskog in northern Sweden and those forests are thousands of years old with No real reason but to expand their planted forests and grow the companies income

[@toms5996]

@@Lajosen As a Finn I haven't really payed attention to our Nordic neighbours. Cutting down forest's is always a sensitive subject - how the forest will regrow etc. In the case of Finland the EU actually wants to reverse how our forests grow and 'restore'. That would mean changing forests back to swamp. In Finland we never cut old forests without a reason. (Europeans in general need to understand that 'forests' are not necessarily a 'natural' thing in the Nordics - we have cultivated them for a 1000 years.)

[@pr7049]

Quantity does not replace quality 😌 My father said that in his childhood the forests in Finland had lichen (30 cm) hanging from trees commonly, but not nowadays. In satellite images Finland is light green and Eastern Karelia is dark green. Light green indicates young monotonous forests, and dark green old forests.

[@toms5996]

@@pr7049 Old forests are basically rotting away. New forests take CO2 and are growing. The issue is so complex - I would need to have a Teams meeting lol

[@toms5996]

@@pr7049 True which is why have been doing our best to transform all our 'new' forests to non-monotonous forests - meaning leaving old trees when cuttings forests and using various spiesies when reforesting.

[@brendatenorio5721]

Bald the environment near the Arctic circle sounds like destruction to entire eco-system, reindeer, native herders, ice and snow. Warm it up and see what happens. So sad.

[@tosa305]

It`s about time that this aggression against the northern nature is highlighted. It`s double-moral that Finland and Sweden are conserned about deforestation of rainforests and at the same time using this destructive methods in own forests. Even they (we) are planting new trees (so called tree-fields, not forest) the fauna is lost or severly damaged.

[@peabase]

Sustainable forestry is a novel concept to you.

[@MJung-zu2vq]

Any effort to make the logging industry more sustainable is welcome, though I find it upsetting how these reindeer herders claim its their right to have a massive land area for their reindeer while most people born in cities in Sweden don't even inherit a house they can live in.

[@alaric_]

The most eco-friendly part of the world by far and with any metric, gets absolutely bonkers if anything "bad" happens to the forests. This is going to be labeled as whataboutism but i don't care: how about you care about the clearcut forest in central europe that were cut to the last tree 300-500 years ago? Whining about a fraction of a percent when it makes no difference in the european scale and at the same time nothing gets done in europe to renew the forests because it's more lucrative to use the land for farming and import the wood from the nordics.

[@Tsuchimursu]

clear cutting just needs some rules on leaving some of the old growth untouched in effective ways to serve as seeds for regeneration. leaving one or two trees up here and there doesn't help, they dry up or fall down in windstorms. small scale clear cuts are important unless we start allowing wildfires to clear forests periodically, there are lots of species that need the clear cuttings. Just not on this scale obviously.

[@oskich]

In Sweden we plant 3 trees for every one cut down in these clear cuttings though...

[@Tsuchimursu]

@@oskich im in Finland, I've done clear cutting seeding by foot where it's too swampy for a planter vehicle to drive, it's not the number of trees planned but the pattern with which the forest is managed. we shouldn't manage all of it intensively and such vast areas at once imo

[@marcob1729]

@@oskich how many of those die? How much longer does the forest take to recover vs other means?

[@oskich]

@@marcob1729 It's around 50-100 years for normal final harvest. It's a continuous process. There are twice as many trees in Sweden today compared to 1920.

[@marcob1729]

@@oskich That's not an answer to either of my questions. The point that the video attempts to make is that there are alternative methods to clear cutting

[@olowrohek9540]

Do something to stop this disaster please. Also in Poland massiv cutting 2ha or 4ha i saw last year. Please activists try to stop it us urgent

[@paitti]

We should start replanting the central european forrests that have been decimated by agriculture.

[@artworld9799]

Many plants are to be planted!!

[@Skogen594]

Tree planting is no excuse of cutting down the forests in the first place and if it done with plantation its even worse for the ecosystem than doing nothing afterwards and only done for provit and its not a forest then. Forests should never be clearcut only very tiny areas or forests thinning but removing everything results in a collapse.

[@anetaslow621]

IKEA IS IN HIGH DEMAND

[@louis.chaha397]

Well IKEA needs all those lumber

[@pr7049]

Too much focus on the northern parts of nordics. It is in the southern, middle part of Sweden and Finland where is the greatest lost of biodiversity, old forests and drained bogs.😌

[@EarlyNai]

They should at least make the effort to replant the area that they cut down.

[@sseamountain9377]

They do replant, its the law.

[@7YBzzz4nbyte]

The gardens of all villas with neatly cut lawns in Germany could also be replanted with forests that once were there. I've never once heard of any such discussions. 🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲

[@finianlacy8827]

YOU THINK THIS IS EASIER THAN CONTROLLING YOUR BORDERS ??!! ARE YOU INSANE ??????

[@simonkristensson3077]

Damn hippies should do something productive instead of protesting…

[@sseamountain9377]

It has been tried to avoid clear cutting in the 50th with disastrous result.

[@shaf60]

Logs get you sticks, sticks get you twigs . I call them twigs, you call them full grown trees . Equals i call it greed . ☠

[@aliancemd]

4:08 "Environmentalists and lumber companies have long been at odds" - quite natural with one side's entire income/business relying on as much destruction of the nature as possible/allowed to. I think most people are "at odds with the lumber companies", it's just that most of us are just too lazy/busy to do anything about it - these businesses rely on our innaction.

[@birch8005]

What about Brazil and clear-cutting😂 for agriculture use.

[@beautifulempatheticliberal5204]

As a German I really love that my country belongs to the world and not to its own people. In my head I tell myself that this is good, natural and normal.

[@simpmaster7995]

You are not a German but someone who pretends to be a German.. You are a RuZZian troller.