How Atlantis: The Lost Empire Became Disney's Most Underrated Film (so says me)

[@TheWhiteermine]

It always saddens that Aristocats is the beginning of the Dark Age 😢 I love the doubling of the animation lines, the color coding and jazzy influence 😍 also it‘s quite a unique story for Disney to start with a single mother of three 😅

[@BetterWithBob]

Ooh very good point I rewatched it recently and appreciated how the animation is so influenced by Parisian art of the time period

[@maidenofthelight]

And it's funny how the Duchess VA is also Miss Bianca from the Rescuers!

[@VillainIsLemony]

"All will be well, Milo Thatch. Be not afraid." This line NEVER EVER fails to send chills down my spine.

[@BetterWithBob]

They put so much effort into the Atlantean language and that moment had quite the punch

[@JuriAmari]

Thank you Mark Okrand for making two conlangs that I love (the other one he did was Klingon). I always hope that the vocabulary is expanded someday. ❤

[@hameley12]

Dig Adlantisag, is a fictional language created for Disney's Atlantis and related media. The language was designed by linguist Marc Okrand as stated by others here in the channel. I feel like if we were to expand upon it, it would become one of the many most spoken languages in the world. Since Gaelic Irish is dying out, we should be learning it as well. 🗣

[@Sebbir]

A shame Milo didn’t catch what she was saying

[@4.1132]

Rourke even as a kid always felt slightly off like he felt smarmy, although that may have been the localization. Helga is just iconic. What I love most about Atlantis is that the characters feel like real people that aren’t locked into their positions in the story. And that they had a main character couple where they complement each other in their strengths without full on resorting to either hunky man and heart of gold woman or hypermasculine woman and extremely effeminate man. One possible explanation why the Atlanteans don’t get more characterization is because that would have been too many characters for an already very large ensemble cast and having too many conflicts makes the movie less focused. It’s not a film targeted primarily at adults, so the information needs to be a little more condensed and to be fair outside of the main cast the background characters of the Ulysses and later Rourke‘s minions don’t get a lot of characterization either. Kida and the king are synecdochic of the positions of Atlantis as a civilization that the main cast is privy to, which makes it easier focus more on what the culture looks like from Milo‘s perspective.

[@BetterWithBob]

That's a fair point, thank you for making it :)

[@marocat4749]

I mean, Kida is the one needing it and maybe er dad, but she needs and gets it. And too much and its harmful too without very clear direction. to have too much .- And Kida is the one needing it really, and gets it. And didnt in the movie itself showing her after Milo partly because he can read it and her dad refused.to teach her the language and its onthe chietains tto pas on after the disaster, and the wariness, i think its obvious enough to, yeah that must have been outlawed because the disaster other than the chieftain line. And that bit we get from her dad that he refused to tell her stuff about that And they could talk more abiout atlantis in a series, that sadly was a weird cut together movie .

[@MirZee]

I was an impressionable kid when I saw Atlantis in the movie theatre. It left such a mark on me from the get-go. Obviously, I spent the next 3 years only drawing Kida being drawn into the crystal. She is still one of my absolute favourite characters for the same reasons you mentioned: her feeling like a complete personality, being brave and ruthless, if needed, but also kind, caring, curious, playful, vulnerable, and carries the responsibility of being the future leader of her people. She is not defined by her loss in childhood, though she carries that within her. She is not defined by her “badassedness”, though that is a part of her. And she is not defined by being a “free, fun-loving” woman outside the (American) social norms of the time. She is a character with many sides to her, and we get to see those sides and how her interactions with Milo and her father bring them out. We actually get to know her. That is why I tear up when she comes down from the crystal and finds her old bracelet, a memento from her mother; or when she is so overwhelmed she embraces Milo, feeling utterly safe with him; or when she bids farewell to her father in the ending scene, her grief, but also hope and love entwining within her. Sorry for the unexpected ramble, but her scenes just seem so genuine. Also, I just love her character visually and all the characters, actually, as well as the world of Atlantis in general. Kida’s budding romance with Milo feels so very believable and genuine, too. You really see and feel the connection between them spark and grow, based on who they are as people, actually, instead of just narrative reasons or superficial “what more is there” reasons. And it was gratifying to see Milo standing up to what he believed in, sort of encouraged by Kida’s example and her now being in danger - but also in honour of his grandfather, who would never watch a civilization come to an end because of greed. Regarding the scene after the crew’s escape from Leviathan: I can’t believe people would critisise the film for being too tame, with that devastating scene in there. Over 200 hundred people lost their lives in a desperate escape attempt from an unnknown monster, in the absolute and inescapable darkness and massive depth of an ocean. You see people boarding the expedition boat, and most of those people die. You even see a moment with a father and son terrified, seconds before they crash. The silence of the memorial scene is profound, I think, and I still feel its heaviness when I rewatch the film. Explicit monster fights would have been repetitive, as you said, and boring. One major escape attempt with crushing consequences sets rather a tone for the entire expedition, I think. The lone candle floating away to honour those, whose amilies will never learn of the fates of their loved ones. Lol, maybe I take things a little too seriously, but I am a very feeling person. XD I feel you with the Leviathan, too, I played Final Fantasy IX and Leviathan along with Shiva were my favourite ever spells. The cold bad machine in Atlantis was a tough pill to swallow. Also, an honorary mention of Helga: I surprisingly enjoyed her character from the start, and her final action of shooting down the zeppelin or whatever, choosing spite over her own life was quite a way to go. Before I finish my rambling, I have to point out how fascinating (and undermentioned) the crystal and its concept are. It was the source of life for Atlantians, and yet it demanded royal sacrifice, in a way. Ut that’s a opic for me to delve on when I’ll go to bed and try to sleep. Anyway, great video, thanks for making it!

[@BetterWithBob]

No apologies necessary. I loved reading every word of that :) Couldn't have said it better myself XD

[@MirZee]

@@BetterWithBob Glad to hear! 😆

[@王征服]

Having mentioned it in this video, Bob is now contractually obligated to make a full "Titan A.E." essay vid.

[@maidenofthelight]

Or Treasure Planet...

[@BetterWithBob]

Oh lord, darn these contracts lol

[@vampirefrompluto9788]

17:52 Also the movie shows that Milo is treated FAR nicer by the Atlantians than by the people on the surface. I've NEVER questioned why he chose to stay because even if he & Kida weren't a couple the locals would likely have enjoyed his company.

[@BetterWithBob]

Very good point

[@0h_hi_mark]

Gosh these movies remind me how grateful I was to own them all on VHS and watch repeatedly

[@hameley12]

Same for us, we owned the VHS tape until it wore out. Years later, I found the Blu-ray DVD along with the deleted scenes and extras. I was over the moon, still am. Even found the Atlantean blue crystal on Etsy, it glows in the dark. It doesn't have the magic, but it is a unique design. I hope more people learn of the movie, its symbols, and its messaging. ❤

[@andrewmcneillactor]

Definitely in my top 5 as well, along with Hunchback and Treasure Planet. Also, having been lucky enough to see the Hunchback musical adaptation, it does a lot to remedy the issues of the film (gargoyles included).

[@BetterWithBob]

Oh how so?

[@JuriAmari]

@@BetterWithBob they make the gargoyles genuine imaginary friends for Quasimodo rather than ambiguous supernatural manifestations in the movie. They also made his singing and dialogue more of an inner voice since medieval bell ringers were more likely to be deaf/HoH (it also could’ve been a theatrical choice on the production/actor’s side). Finally, they did some changes in terms of character backstories, songs, relationships, and the ending to make it more realistic and book accurate. Thankfully, a lot of people have uploaded the musical on KZbin so it’s worth a watch!

[@Nakiami]

With every video you make I feel like our tastes align quite a bit. Atlantis was one of my favorite Disney movies as a kid, along with sleeping beauty. I was apart of the crowd begging the put it into kingdom hearts 3 while it was in development. I was also surprised to see another one of my favs as a kid be brought up (final fantasy the spirits within) as I see no one talking about it. Thanks for all your hard work and I look forward to your next video!

[@BetterWithBob]

Thank you for your kind words :)

[@gamingoutlaws9765]

@@BetterWithBob​​⁠will you do a video on the Disney Princes I would love to hear your thoughts of them especially Phillip next or Esmeralda or are you a bit princess fatigue?

[@JuriAmari]

It actually was in development (at least according to KH Insider and the wiki). But I guess they had a hard time integrating Atlantis into the plot for KH3 and both the Japanese and English VAs for Elder Xehanort passed away (Keisuke Otsuka and Leonard Nimoy). They also played King Nedakh (Kida’s dad). Hopefully Atlantis makes it into the Master of Masters Arc because a Crystal Keyblade (along with a Lightsaber one) would look badass!

[@katherinepfister4177]

I love this movie. It’s got amazing story and memorable characters. It needs more love.

[@davidalbee5039]

Hold up, I never thought about how all of or the majority of Disney villains are one of the seven deadly sins and I need to meditate on this

[@BetterWithBob]

This one is fun: *Queen Grimhilde would be Envy *Lady Tremaine possibly Envy too (definitely in the remake) *Maleficent is Wrath *Cruella is possibly Wrath or Gluttony *Edgar is Greed *Madame Medusa is Gluttony, since she's very wasteful with the things she already has *Rattigan is Pride *Ursula is Gluttony (going off the original definition, it's desire for excess and that's definitely her) *Gaston is Pride *Jafar is Greed *Scar is Sloth *Governor Ratcliffe is Greed *Frollo is Lust *Hades is Envy *Shan Yu is Wrath *Clayton is Wrath as well *Yzma would be either Pride or Envy

[@JuriAmari]

@@BetterWithBob you can also argue there might be some sloth too for Yzma considering how she did the advising job, how much she splurged after Kuzco’s “death”, and using Kronk as a vehicle and personal chef. Then again, she worked smarter, not harder! 😂

[@BradLad56]

The one thing I always remember about The Emperor's New Groove: WRONG LEVER!!! lol

[@BetterWithBob]

@@BradLad56 "why do we even HAVE that lever!"

[@acousticmonkey2209]

​@BetterWithBob Thank you, Bob. About to say the same thing 😂 Me and my family love ENG. Ww quote it endlessly. It has no right to be as good as it is😂

[@redscorner4324]

If Del Toro were to direct the live action remake, I'd watch it in a heartbeat. He understands creating worlds that have good representation and diversity being from Europe and he always puts a lot of heart and meaning into his movies. His stop motion version of Pinnicho was breathtaking in it's beauty and the bittersweet in depth look at how grief affects others during the height of WWII

[@BetterWithBob]

I forgot all about his Pinocchio. I must check it out

[@AndyG94]

I loved this movie when it was a kid, I remember going to McDonalds and they offered the necklace crystal in one of the happy meals, and I kept that plastic crystal for years afterwards

[@BetterWithBob]

Oh I wish I'd gotten those. I have the toys for Audrey, Sweet and Mole

[@dumpsterDeity]

It's my dad's favorite animated movie. Thank you for covering it

[@Koopalingfan]

Very nice review and agree. I love Altantis The Lost Empire, it’s one of my favorite movies. I do agree the Milo and Kida subplot is nice. The scene where the king dies is such a sad scene. It was also my introduction to Michael J Fox. Rourke and Helga are one of my favorite villains. It’s also nice how the action scenes really give out the military vibe like World War 1 and 2, the Vietnam War, and pretty much in general. Which is impressive for an animated movie. The Leviathan attack scene sort of reminds me of The Hunt For Red October another one of my favorite movies. I wonder if they took inspiration from that. As you get older you can sort of side with the Leviathan because of protecting the crystal, which sort of makes the scene unique.

[@JuriAmari]

The other thing that stands out with Milo vs the Atlantis crew is he adapts immediately to Atlantean society and customs. He bows to King Nedakh with Kida unlike the Atlantis crew who just stand there. He immediately thinks about the well being of the people when the heart of Atlantis is taken away, when he sees why Nedakh locked away the Heart in the first place, and the rhetoric he uses to motivate his friends to save the city. When he stays, you can tell it’s really out of care for the people as well as Kida so it’s not surprising that he fit in so well. Milo is a prime example for what an ally looks like.

[@Koopalingfan]

@@JuriAmari Totally agree. It’s also nice how the king entrusts Milo not by actions, but by words since he probably heard him the entire time.

[@BetterWithBob]

Excellent points!

[@Koopalingfan]

@@BetterWithBob Thanks!

[@arnesahlen2704]

The big twist, 95% turning from Rourke, recalls film Spartacus and even a TV 'The Fugitive' prison episode. One starts, then others follow one by one, doing the right thing. Btw: SUPERB POST!

[@songweretson]

I saw this one in theaters, and I was OBSESSED for months (pretty much until Attack of the Close came out...). I've revisted it a few times over the years, because it really is one of the best movies Disney has made. Part of me wishes it had gotten a live action remake (Cole Sprouse did a Milo costume for Halloween one year, and Disney should have pounced on that as soon as they saw those pictures)... but another part of me is also happy that it remains untouched. Underrated, but untouched.

[@mariapazgonzalezlesme]

I am so happy to had seen this. Thank you Bob. You have amazing and insightful analysis about this.

[@BetterWithBob]

Thank you for watching Maria, and for your insights :)

[@lizz-kikimoria]

Amazing to see a video on Atlantis right as I joined your channel just recently! Love love loooove the truly deep look you take on any peace of media you cover here, cause as you said in your big Disney princesses video, they really are quite frequently remembered with a lot of bad faith and actual misinformation, to the point where the whole discussion becomes subverted. And seeing your content makes for a breath of fresh air, I rewatched Pocahontas recently cause of it, and finally remembered what I liked that movie for as a child! And Atlantis is truly one of all time favorite (with sleeping beauty too actually, as you pointed out here hehe). The grandeur, the beauty, actually not shying away from the theme of all the deaths happening and tragedy of it all… I was mesmerized as a child

[@BetterWithBob]

Your English reads perfectly :) Better than mine I would say aha

[@lizz-kikimoria]

@@BetterWithBob awww, thanks

[@AileynRed]

I'm here for the defenders of Treasure Planet & Titan AE club, those movies slapped, I will hear no arguments against it ❤

[@BetterWithBob]

I only saw Titan AE for the first time this year so I haven't had a chance to fully form an opinion on it, but I did enjoy it

[@ccdecker]

MOAR ABOUT FINAL FANTASY THE SPIRITS WITHIN! I am the only person I know who liked it, please help! Those scenes of the Phantoms pulling people's souls out of their bodies simply by drifting through them has lived rent-free in my sense of existential dread since 2001.

[@thememedungeonkeeper]

My first bout of existential dread came from that damn scene! Huzzah! 😂 It even stars Ming Na Wen! ...and Alec Baldwin, but still.

[@joshuapineda1369]

I think I would have liked it if it didn’t have the title Final Fantasy. Looking back, I was one of the people who lined up at the premiere expecting Squaresoft (Now, Square Enix) create a movie version of the games. But we got sorely disappointed. But I remember rewatching this a few years later. It wasn’t that bad. The characters were actually fun and engaging. So yeah.

[@BetterWithBob]

I first had the novelization and read that, and it got me very hyped to finally watch the movie

[@micshork]

I absolutely love this movie. It’s a shame that they never got to have the planned theatrical sequel. I also once spoke with screenwriter Tab Murphy who said that Helga was originally Milo’s love interest before they created Kida and that at some point there was possibly going to be some kind of love triangle thing but that got scrapped. I just find it funny that the typical nerdy guy is the babe magnet here.

[@BetterWithBob]

Oh wow that would have been...a choice lol

[@micshork]

@@BetterWithBobPart of me wishes that they had kept that love triangle aspect so that Helga being hesitant to betray Milo would have more impact. But that’s just me. Anyway I really like your videos. Keep up the good work. If possible could I suggest a video topic that you might find interesting?

[@meganjeffrey6207]

I absolutely love your videos! Thank you for making such fantastic and thoughtful content. Although I disagree with one point: if Guillermo del Toro got to direct the live action version of this, I would be so psyched -- largely due to his work history with Mike Mignola, who was a production designer on the 2D Atlantis. Then again, I'd probably lose sleep over how the Disney studio execs would interfere 😅 so, in the end, you're right!

[@BetterWithBob]

In that I was saying I would be intrigued to see Guillermo del Toro direct it so we are in agreement there :)

[@chheinrich8486]

Atlantis, Brother bear, and Aladdin, are my favorite 2d Disney movies😊❤

[@BetterWithBob]

@@chheinrich8486 I actually never saw Brother Bear. That's one that always escaped me

[@chheinrich8486]

@@BetterWithBob whenever we visited our grandparents, we watched the movie since they had it on vhs,

[@gamingoutlaws9765]

@@BetterWithBobwill you do a video on the Disney Princes I would love to hear your thoughts of them especially Phillip next or Esmeralda or are you a bit princess fatigue?

[@JuriAmari]

@@BetterWithBob you’ve got to give that a shot. The BTS on that one is especially fascinating between Phil Collins’s creativity, Tina Turner’s opening theme, and the gorgeous animation and music. They also used an Inuk choir for the transformation sequence and Inuk consultants for the film!

[@vampirefrompluto9788]

13:16 This! Every time someone tries telling me Kida is "problematic/sexualized" I point this out!

[@BradLad56]

It's always good when Bob uploads. He just gets straight to his point and doesn't talk a load of bollocks as a lead up. By the by, just thought I'd point out we have Marty McFly talking to Spock in this film, or Galvatron if you're a Transformers the movie fan lol

[@BetterWithBob]

@@BradLad56 I am not but that's rad for those who are 😅

[@ericgeddes3353]

I like the first two Shrek films a lot but I am so sick of CG animation. I'd say bring back animated musicals but I've also grown to hate Frozen and think Tangled is much better. I'm sorry if this all sounds overly negative. I love these videos thanks for making them .

[@BetterWithBob]

I feel the same way. By the time I saw the My Little Pony movie in cinemas, it felt like the freshest breath of air after non stop CGI films

[@katarinakrnjevic8183]

It's a shame that this movie didn't get more attention . They had a very original story and good voice and it's one of darkest Disney movies.

[@BetterWithBob]

The love is growing though so ^_^

[@Williperhonen]

I think in Atlantis you can feel the love the filmmakers had for the story and the world. The fact that they had to cut so much out to make the story flow better. You can still leave pieces of all of that background information there without bringing it up. It makes the world feel lived and old. Films dont have as much time with these things but the newest Zelda games definitely use it to make the place like it has history and past so old it has been forgotten twice over.

[@BetterWithBob]

@@Williperhonen very good point. I haven't played the game myself but I get you. I've been rewatching Frozen for research and realising how weak the world building is 😅

[@gen_li7725]

I love this movie. I rewatched it recently with some friends and I think it’s probably one of my favorite Disney movies. I always loved mulan and pocahantie, but I think kida is always in the back of my mind as my real favorite princess. I’ve based a dnd character on her before… her dynamic and personality, especially in contrast to Milo’s, to me feels like the most relatable relationship disney has done

[@gray7433]

In a perfect world, Atlantis would have a bigger following. I think a live action could do it a boon. If we had more time (2 hours or so), we could explore more of Atlantis and its people, maybe follow more messaging on greed, and get a truly epic film

[@BetterWithBob]

Very true

[@JuriAmari]

I agree. I also wouldn’t mind if Atlantis 2 got a proper development outside of/in addition to what we got with Milo’s Return. There were a lot of interesting plots that could use more expansion, especially the Sonoran Desert one. That one really stood out to me even as a kid.

[@Oakjet1998]

ATLANTIS THE LOST EMPIRE IS MY FAVORITE DISNEY MOVIE!!!!!!

[@caitlynskiff2001]

Ironically, my mom and I were talking yesterday about how underrated Atlantis is. It's definitely one of my favorites as a kid. It was Little Mermaid on top, then Lilo and Stitch, and finally, Atlantis. Nowadays, my top 5 are Moana, Lilo and Stitch, Frozen, Mulan, and finally, Atlantis. With The Lion King and Little Mermaid just outside the top 5.

[@BetterWithBob]

Lilo & Stitch is so underrated!

[@caitlynskiff2001]

@BetterWithBob What is interesting is that the character of Stitch isn't. Disney does so much merch with him (which I love since he is my favorite Disney Character), but the movie itself is underrated. Like most people know who Stitch is, even if they have never seen the movie.

[@ReviewsWithAL_]

I need to watch Atlantis again, don't remember it too well but remember always enjoying it when I did watch it

[@BetterWithBob]

It's a film I think you'd enjoy XD

[@Itachi45481]

I’ve always loved this movie much to my dads wallet because we went in theatres 3 times and I bought or was gifted a lot of the Atlantis toys when I was a kid and it’s why i started playing lorecana the Disney card game so yeah I’m a fan

[@henrymockingbird9645]

I really like the Black cauldron deserves I think it deserves more credit for having the balls dark and mature then the average Disney film at the time and come on I don’t think it’s deserves to be considered Disney’s lowest point I feel like chicken little deserves that title

[@BetterWithBob]

Its animation is nice, I'll give it that. I haven't seen Chicken Little but I think that and Home on the Range are considered the worst. Although from the discourse surrounding Raya and Wish, I think they might be contenders too

[@henrymockingbird9645]

@@BetterWithBob Ray and the last dragon, and wish are not even close to being candids and home on the range is just freaking stupid chicken Little is a mean spirited movie

[@ubermaster134]

The balck cauldron just bums me out because that movie could've been so much cooler

[@0h_hi_mark]

I remember getting the crystal necklace in a McDonald’s happy meal

[@BetterWithBob]

Oh so lucky. I got the Mole and Audrey action figures

[@mintkit1064]

I loved this movie as a kid and I adore the side characters. There is just so much appreciate it, the villain is definitely the weakest point of it but he serves his purpose.

[@TheNutCaseNetwork]

Small note… I actually LOVE the Aristocats🥰

[@BetterWithBob]

I never had much fondness for it but recently rewatched it and found it nice and charming. Think I grew up to be O'Malley

[@TheNutCaseNetwork]

@@BetterWithBob 🤣🤣🤣 that’s funny, I rewatched it with my kids and I think what I liked about it most was that the main characters were cats. I’ve loved cats my whole life and the movie gave them life

[@BeWithTamia]

My favorite movie. I have an Atlantis themed wallet. I even had this movie on VHS and watched it until it finally broke. Loved this movie.

[@BetterWithBob]

Ooh that sounds cool - the wallet not the VHS breaking

[@kassandranevermind2009]

I absolutely loved Atlantis when I was a kid!

[@henrymockingbird9645]

I agree with you about Atlantis the lost empire getting a remake unless someone has the passion for the original? I just can’t see it in this day and age when almost of all the Disney remakes passionless cash grabs maybe if the Atlantis remake was made in 2015 or 2016 I’m pretty sure then it could’ve worked but it’s too little too late now

[@alexhowarthactor_]

Michael J Fox the goat

[@anonymoususer188]

I'm just old enough to remember a time before streaming services. When I was young, there was a brick-and-mortar movie rental that we occasionally rented movies from. By the time I got to high school, that wasn't a thing anymore. However, back when it was, the single movie that my brother and I asked our parents to rent SIGNIFICANTLY more often than any other was Atlantis: The Lost Empire. Most movies we didn't bother renting more than once, but we loved that movie and kept wanting to rewatch it. I don't understand why we never just bought a copy (maybe we couldn't for some reason?). That movie was a massive part of my childhood.

[@BetterWithBob]

Ah the days of video rentals. So magical lol

[@Black.Templar_002]

atlantis is peak

[@BetterWithBob]

Peak what?

[@Black.Templar_002]

@@BetterWithBob just peak animated adventure movie. really captures that jules verne esque feeling. id say on par with treasure planet, two of my favourite 2D disney movies

[@arnesahlen2704]

29:28 Garner was not only a major film star but famed for *nice-guy roles.* His shock evil-ness matches that of also-famed sweetie Suzanne Pleshette as Zira, Scar's widow, in Lion King 2.

[@theexplorer1476]

It's one of my favourite movies, i wish they added more scenes to the part where they travel to Atlantis, it's my favourite part of the movie, and Milo was such a fresh character i loved him soo much.

[@rachelnesser9223]

Ah, thank you for doing this video essay, as Disney's Atlantis is one of my favorite 2D animated films; I completely agree that its an underrated gem! Some other points to mention: As a Hellboy fan, I love that Mike Mignola was the comic book artist who did the concept character designs/artwork for Atlantis. As for the Team Atlantis series we never got, as a big fan of Disney's Gargoyles, I'm aware Gargoyles co-creator Greg Weisman wrote a crossover episode, titled "The Last", for the Atlantis series that would've seen Kida, Milo and company encounter Demona! Finally, I share your closing sentiments and wishes that we could've been living in a world where Disney's Atlantis had been a huge success and what that would've meant. Oh, and as a big fan of James Cameron's Avatar, thanks for mentioning Quaritch in comparison with Rourke (as I've always felt Avatar is Atlantis-adjacent...or is Atlantis Avatar-adjacent?)

[@BetterWithBob]

Hmm Avatar was in development since the 90s but trying to make sense of that wiill just make my head hurt lol

[@rachelnesser9223]

@@BetterWithBob Yeah, you're right, and I agree.🙂

[@OpticalSorcerer]

I'm torn about this film: it deserves more attention, but I'm not crazy about this being an example of the anti-musical sentiment (having shirts that say "less songs, more explosions").

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah I see what you mean. I know in Disney they were getting fed up of every film having to be a musical in the 90s - since Mulan wasn't written to be one but they were forced to make it one. So I think it might have been the attitude "can we make something else for a change?" rather than hating on musicals in general

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@BetterWithBob I'd never heard Disney didn't plan to make "Mulan" a musical--they even planned to have Stephen Schwartz do the music, but his involvement with Dreamworks via "The Prince of Egypt" made them take him off the project when he opted not to take sides. And it's funny you mention "Mulan"; it has very few songs, the remake has none since the director said she didn't know how to incorporate songs in a war film, and Raya was decided not to be a musical because they thought ut'd take away from the seriousness. Really concerning situations to me.

[@JuriAmari]

@@OpticalSorcerer especially since war songs are very common. It wouldn’t be a hard thing to do! The one credit that Mulan has is how the format changes from musical to period drama. That shift from singing about girls they’re fighting for to when they see the burned village was incredible. Most unforgettable moment in film history.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@JuriAmari My only qualm was how there were no more songs afterwards, despite "Pocahontas" and "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" having songs during serious moments.

[@Nevae_696]

My favorite detail about this movie was the Leviathan because it was set up in opening scene you can see it getting in golfed in water which also just a testament to how technically advanced Altantis is, it survived 8000 years under water and still functioned even tho that wasn’t its intended use.

[@BetterWithBob]

Ooh excellent point. And the graveyard of ships signals that it's been active the whole time

[@bensneb360]

I remember seeing and liking this movie in theaters… good times

[@peachmint2228]

I would love to hear your thoughts on "The Road to El Dorado"

[@BetterWithBob]

I haven't seen it unfortunately

[@liesellein]

“And to whoever stole the ‘L’ off the pool sign, ha ha, we all think youre very funny” 😂😂😂 still my favorite joke ever

[@BetterWithBob]

I only picked up on that recently lol

[@Danigoddamnit]

Well, I'm probably not the first, but now you need to make a Treasure Planet video so I can have my two beloveds scrutinised by someone of excellent taste.

[@BetterWithBob]

Flattery is good aha

[@ChrisTheAspergerGuy]

I hope you're still checking comments. I was out of town for a couple of days and didn't get a chance to see this video until now. Anyway, I don't have any memory of this movie coming out, which is weird because I remember the 2001 summer movie season quite well. Nevertheless, I think I should check this one out. I'm digging the steampunk vibe and I've always had a fascination with Atlantis, whether it ever actually existed or not. As far as getting a live-action remake, I would argue that this one could benefit the most from that. It's not nearly well known as the other ones Disney has been doing, so the stakes are far lower for disappointing audiences. Not to mention, it's an action film, whereas the other Disney movies are mostly musical love stories. In the hands of the right writers and director, it could be pretty awesome.

[@killerr721]

I feel like if this movie was a box office success, it couldve become disneys version of stargate. I always felt like milo was inspired by daniel jackson, they both had an idea that family members died trying to prove, both the "scrawny" nerdy type, both finding a love interest in their exploration, and both staying behind while the rest of the team return home. Granted i watched this movie because of the stargate movie and series but it wouldve been cool if disney also tackled other ancient civilizations with milo and gang exploring akin to stargate.

[@blankisblind9474]

Fun fact: Atlantis: The Lost Empire is one of the Disney films that was possibly a plagiarized work. There are a suprising amount of similarities between the film and a 1990 anime called "Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water", with some of the similarities being character designs, setting and even story elements. The similarities were so close that Gainax, the anime studio behind Nadia, requested that Toho and NHK, their parent companies, sue Disney but were denied apparently because Toho and NHK were afraid of Disney and their lawyers.

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah you do not fuck with Disney's lawyers aha. That's a little disappointing to hear

[@JuriAmari]

It’s not the first time Disney’s come under fire for this. They had similar accusations for Lion King on two counts: one with Toei’s two films - Kimba the White Lion and King of the Jungle, and the other with Solomon Linda’s estate and the South African government for the musical and the Lion Sleeps Tonight. The former ended up getting settled out of court (some call it a myth - infamously YMS - even though there’s plenty of history between Disney and Tezuka and even a Japanese newspaper petition). The latter is one of the only times Disney lost - the South African government won via cultural rights and the Linda Estate and family are supposed to get royalties. But of course Disney found a workaround by dragging out the lawsuit until almost all the family died out and not using Mbube (aka the Lion Sleeps Tonight) in the live action remake; they made it a soundtrack only release in the US and a credits sequence internationally, making it less likely to be heard. That ended up getting screwed over when Beyoncé pulled an Uno reverse and used Mbube in Black is King! If you’re curious about the latter, check out the Netflix Remastered documentary The Lion’s Share.

[@ryanparker4996]

Wait till you learn they pulled the whole thing from Plato! All stories are made of other stories. Get over it and youll be happy.

[@maidenofthelight]

I enjoyed your gushing analysis of Atlantis and I found your arguments sound, sometimes less is more cause I didn't find fault that their journey wasn't more harrowing or there wasn't any more context for the Atlanteans, there was enough for me as a viewer. I watched it on VHS and I was glued to it from beginning to end. I always memorized Cookie's 5 Basic FG or Vinny's Laundry rant or Rourke's Sound Off. Rent Free in my head.

[@RE-yj9ts]

As soon as Disney started doing live action remakes, I have been telling people that they should do this one live. It was a flop in the theater so it would give Disney the chance for a redo and if done well, it could be very successful. They have also redone their more popular movies (Lion King, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, etc.) that couldn't really be improved upon. If they did a live action Atlantis, they would have more screen time to introduce and explore the world of Atlantis and develop characters, relationships and the culture. If it is done by a crew that cares, it could end up being an amazing tribute to the original story.

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah but sadly their priorities wouldn't lead for them to remake a film that could use the improvement - because they want the easy cash grab, so they go for the most popular option that has name recognition

[@h.j.froehlich326]

I'll die on the hill that that Atlantis and Treasure Planet only failed because the Disney marketing team had no idea how to sell anything other than princess stories.

[@seasonembrace3624]

Gosh I have a ton of nostalgic for Atlantis especially since I saw this film when it debuted in theatres. I was so bug eyed 👁 👁 when I saw the submarine on the big screen 📺. That and Milo Thatch is probably one of my favorite male Disney leads. And my favorite scene's would probably have to be the camp & crystal moments. going off topic but I also cosplayed as Black Cauldron’s antagonist The Horned King. I was surprised when I encountered folks who remember this guy considering the Black Cauldron’s lesser fanfare by Disney standard’s which gave me some fuzzy feelings.

[@Wolfcreed117]

This movie and Treasure Plant. Loved those movie when I was little. They still hold up today, in my opinion.❤

[@nadjakari1752]

I love this movie ❤ I love Kida and Milo. 😊

[@michaelbrent1536]

When I was a little kid, I had a huge crush on Helga and Kida! I thought Atlantis the lost Empire with a really good movie. I love the animation. I love you environment. It almost reminded me of Star Wars! I knew Rourk was a villain!

[@BetterWithBob]

I was never much of a Star Wars fan so I didn't pick up on the similarities lol

[@Yellowguy0619]

People tend to forget that Disney made a story of a real-life scenario with crippling debt and how the wealthy would use the poor in needy, resulting them to crime themselves to get by and pay back their moneylenders.

[@skzip888]

Vinny's voice is modeled on Father Guido Sarducci, a Saturday Night Live character Don Novella used to perform in the 1970s. I have no idea if or when those episodes became available in the UK.or anywhere else in the anglosphere.

[@JeffreyDeCristofaro]

2D animated sci-fi films of the very early 21st century are a niche from my childhood that I wish we got more of - especially since I watched FINAL FANTASY: THE SPIRITS WITHIN a lot more than most people did at the time. That and TITAN A.E. and ATLANTIS deserved far more than they got. While I LOVE adult animated sci-fi classics like AKIRA, FANTASTIC PLANET and HEAVY METAL far more, these gems need just as much if not more love!

[@maidenofthelight]

Also another minus with Atlantis that people keep bringing up was that Kida, the crystal, Atlantean subplot was too related to Nadia - The secret of Blue Water anime or some other

[@kaylovesdisney4582]

Firstly, thank you for creating interesting content for us Disney Adults 😊. Also, not for hating on Pocahontas and Hunchback, as Pocahontas is also my 2nd favourite (after Little Mermaid) and Hunchback is forever in my top 5....with it's soundtrack being my No. 1. I understand the dislike of the gargoyles, but I also understand why Disney included them. I've always enjoyed Atlantis because it was something different...and if the live actions were not just cash cows....I would be happy to see this get the live action treatment. Out of curiosity and just for fun, I would be interested to know your take on why Milo and Kida do not kiss at the end. This puzzled me as a kid because you can see Milo going in for the kiss but then Kida hugs him. I remember being worried he was in the "friend zone" but he clearly becomes her consort at the end. Watching as an adult, my theory is possibly it's a culture thing. Or maybe Disney artists got fed up of animating kissing scenes. 😂 It is quite refreshing...but at the same time strange (when you watch for the first time), because i think they are the only Disney "human" couple who do not kiss. Yes, I know Mulan and Shang do not kiss in the original movie, but they do in the sequel. Milo and Kida do not. Thoughts? 🤔

[@BetterWithBob]

I never thought he was going in for the kiss but I suppose it kind of looks like that My guess is that Milo is meant to be older than the usual Disney guy - he's 32 - as well as being shy around women with how he gets tongue-tied as Kida strips off. So he's not the type to make the first move Out of universe, this was meant to be a little more mature, so without songs and musical numbers to develop a love story, they went with something a little more believable. Or they might have just felt that a kiss wouldn't have the same effect - it's why they got rid of a kiss between Jet Li and Aaliyah at the end of Romeo Must Die and used a take where they hug instead

[@kaylovesdisney4582]

@@BetterWithBob Perhaps not, though to me it looked like he ever so slightly leaned in. He just saved an entire civilisation, I like to think he got a little confidence boost 😉. It's a lovely reunion 😌 kiss or no kiss. I really like Milo and Michael J Fox's voice work is brilliant. Probably his best. 🙂

[@JuriAmari]

Atlantis is my favorite Disney movie of all time. Kida and Milo is my dream pairing and Atlantean is one of my favorite conlangs in existence from the writing system to the sounds of the language. It’s one of the few fictional places I’d love to visit if it were real 🥰 James Newton Howard’s score is so memorable that I still listen to it whenever I write. it really is an underrated film that I’m glad it’s getting its flowers! Also I hope you do Final Fantasy the Spirits Within. I rewatched it when I was in college and my mind was blown by the animation quality especially from the 2000s. (Also that line was too real 😅😂)

[@BetterWithBob]

Thank you for your lovely comment :) Which line did you mean was too real?

[@JuriAmari]

The AI acting replacement one that brought on the SAG strikes. Another film that reminded me of that line was The Congress starring Robin Wright. She plays an alternate version of herself who wasn’t successful after the Princess Bride and she gets asked to give up her likeness and voice to AI in exchange for royalties and never acting again: not even as a VA, for interviews, conventions, or theater. It’s a mixed medium film (live action and animation) and its popularity spiked after the SAG strikes last year because they were afraid the industry was going to turn into that.

[@BetterWithBob]

@@JuriAmari Oh wow that is almost insanely prescient :O

[@JuriAmari]

@@BetterWithBob it sure was! I ended up watching it again after the strikes started. I still think about it.

[@Pretender6]

Would to liked to see this movie draw out over a 13-episodes Tv/mini series, building more off the cut content, etc Mostly is to see a more 'classical' feel for a good mystery evolved over time, whilest making more effort of making Rourke seem to be a good guy Episode #1 start with the Viking Scene, whilest Milo gets similairly introduced as the protaganist being ridiculed by his peers, there is another subplot afoot During/Following up his introduction, they would show Helga dealing with a opposing organisation by a rival of her boss, and finally result into pickin up Milo and the introduction to MR whitemore Episode #2 start off during the meeting of MR.Whitemore, the scene of testing Milo for his willingness to commit, ie being reluctant/'hostile' before 180 into fully supporting him. Traveling across the surface to Atlantis last know location, gained from first episode's events, Milo fills in Mr Whitemore to the Viking Scenes along with similair paset events. Episode #3-4 start with departure of the Main Sub, along with a longer/delayed introduction to the rest of the Cast, and experiecing life underwater Besides persuing potential sites through mini subs, the rest of the episode gets spend on the (re)telling of events surrounding the Shepherd's Journal This gets told by the rest of the Cast in segments, each having a slightly different 'theme'/tune/shading, with some foreshadowing of Rourke Episode #4 start similairly with the exploration of the seafloor, altough the leviathan would appear more frequently for the viewer, with only at the last second hearing loud strange noise Episode #5 start with the Crew entertaining the idea, what this is, followed up with an actual encounter, damaging evacutaion & destruction the main sub, with cliffhanger on airpocket Episode #6-7, starts with the 'funeral' along with exploring the rest the underworld from cut content, with the group being gradually watched by Kida, up to the point of firefly fiasco Episode #8-9 starts Kida being 'hostile' before healing milo, him returning to the others, not sure he's mentally stable, until kida finally reveals herself. However, unlike the movie, this TVshow example would spent atleast the rest of them trying to understand each other whilest traveling to the City itself Episode #10-11, starts with meeting with the king, 1 day stay of execution/deportation, etc the main cast would spent the rest of the day, exploring Altantis itself Meanwhile Mio would have the scenes with Kida along with her flashback of how Atantis sank, followed up with translating the Murals, and finally ends with cliffhanger of Rourkes betrayal During the entire episode, there are several background of Rourke's troup getting more guns/equipment, but this can be easily look over Last Episode starts off with a voice-over from MR.Whitemore, during a interview within a Flashback from redshirt surviors, about the events after the previous episode If not the fact that when first flashback ends with MR Whitemore & redshirt interviewee in the normal style, it WOULD seeming the entire show was made by another Animation Studio After 2 shorter interviews/flashbacks, each with completly different styles from each other, the regulair Cast members would re-introduced, explaining the rest of the movie

[@henrymockingbird9645]

Hey, I love the Horn king. He is an underrated Disney villain

[@BetterWithBob]

Love the idea, don't love the execution

[@vivicovoibarra]

O my ! Guillermo del toro would be insanely good ! I can dream

[@BetterWithBob]

It was a fake announcement but we latched onto it because the idea sounds cool aha

[@ladydomiollo]

Your top 5 is solid, but Sleeping Beauty at #1? So incredibly cultured. Great video on one of my top 5 from Disney ☺

[@BetterWithBob]

It took me a while to be comfortable putting it there lol. But I couldn't stop lying to myself - it's absolutely brilliant

[@LOTR22090able]

Disney did diversity better before they made it a point

[@BetterWithBob]

Well it's more of a change in how movies and TV are made in general now. Everything is now market tested and based around algorithms to be more content than art

[@Koopalingfan]

That’s true.

[@irenadjukanovic6317]

Please do also the movie that is even above Atlantis ! The most underrated or better to say erased masterpiece Treasure planet! Pretty please 🙏🙏🙏

[@charlie4443]

You're making me feel like I'm going to end up watching Sleeping Beauty for the first time. I know the story obviously, but I don't think I ever actually saw it at any point.

[@BetterWithBob]

It is inevitable!

[@George-Hawthorne]

If they do a remake of this, I want one major change. So, everything happens the same until they to the heel face turn and capture Kida. Here is where the twist is. The moment they step back outside Milo, Rourke and Helga are ambushed by the Atlanteans, but these are no longer the Atlanteans they had met before garbed in skimpy outfits These Atlanteans are now decked in head to toe in armoured diving suits impervious to bullets, shields and War tridents that fire rays that turn Rourke's men to ice. Milo, Rourke, Helga, and the main explorers are quickly overwhelmed and captured and taken to the REAL city of Atlantis. What they had entered was just an outlying settlement at the edge of their domain and the 'King' was just a former war minister. The real King abdicated long ago due to old age, so the true ruler is Kida's older sister who is more militant than she is. It turns out that the Atlanteans were not primitive aborigines but a highly developed race of humans that had never stopped advancing their technology. Fish themes Hovercars and Monorails, an artificial sun, and a perfected version of a Tesla Tower. Milo and the crew also witness a vast military assembled. War machines with sea animal motifs. Crab-like Tanks, Ray-like aircraft, shark-like submarines. Here it's the natives that are the advanced ones and the invaders that are primitive. What had happened before was a set up to test the integrity of the explorers. To see if they would treat a supposedly primitive race equally. Kida's Sister would then use Rourke's unprovoked attack on her people as an excuse to invade the surface world and retake their lost empire. And considering what year this is set in. How about they be the ones to instigate WW1 in order to weaken the surface world for their invasion.

[@BetterWithBob]

Interesting...

[@George-Hawthorne]

@@BetterWithBob Also I would add another member to the crew who turns out to be an Atlantean Agent. One of many agents spread across the globe to study the 'surface humans' and report.

[@remimk]

I've never seen Atlantis for some reason. I guess I just missed it

[@BetterWithBob]

No time like the present ;)

[@MichaelMIller-q8e]

@BetterWithBob What do you think of Atlantis: Milo's Return?

[@BetterWithBob]

I watched it once and don't think I finished it. I remember liking the idea of getting more time with the characters but the animation downgrade was a bit offputting

[@lovetolovefairytales]

I actually really like the black caldron.

[@stardom.1234]

Please make video about Pocahontas and sleeping beauty

[@BetterWithBob]

I made one about Pocahontas years ago, and I touched on both in a video on all the princesses a few months back :)

[@camgold2154]

Atlantis I think was looked down on because it wasn't a musical, but when you look at it today, it's no different than Big Hero 6, Zootopia, and the Wreck-It Ralph movies.

[@BetterWithBob]

I honestly think it holds up better than them

[@HaleThePanda]

I havent seen Titan AE, but ive seen Anastasia. Im pretty sure thats dimitri in there 😂😂

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah if the male leads in Don Bluth films were his romantic partners, I'd say he has a 'type' lol

[@pamelatarajcak5634]

Did you ever see the film Stargate? I think you'd like it.

[@BetterWithBob]

Nope but I'll add that to my list XD

[@ryanparker4996]

​@@BetterWithBob its got the same vibe as this movie. Milo and Daniel are basically the same guy.

[@emily-crawford-soprano9181]

My friend keep talking about Atlantis if this became and Atlantis channel I would be down. ❤

[@BetterWithBob]

I could do it aha

[@ARKK777]

Could you kindly help me understand what you mean by renaissance film?

[@BetterWithBob]

Certainly. That period in the 90s was known as the Disney Renaissance - generally recognised as having started with The Little Mermaid and finishing with Tarzan

[@henrymockingbird9645]

Does this mean you’re going to review either treasure planet or titan AE

[@BetterWithBob]

Not in the plans yet since I only just saw Titan AE this year, but could happen in the future

[@Shythalia]

I wanna see cyborg Helga.

[@BetterWithBob]

We can only pray!

[@dasey31]

It also is very like stargate the movie and the series with lot of the same elements in the story.

[@BetterWithBob]

Ah I haven't seen that myself

[@henrymockingbird9645]

Are you going to review treasure planet i

[@BetterWithBob]

one day maybe

[@hannaelia6279]

Sweet actually does come from the working class, not immigrant but still working. Yes he's a doctor but you have to consider how he became a doctor. He's the descendent of an Indigenous American and an African American borne sometime after the Civil War. This was a time when many African American men just freed from Slavery joined the US Army due to Southern Loitering laws that would have them arrested and made prison slaves on their former masters land. These African American soldiers were then sent west and became the front line in the US Conquest of the west and often came into conflict with the local tribal nations. Sweet details that his father was an Army Medic and he was raised around Navajo Medicine Men. He attended university, before being drafted into the US Army and becoming a medic. Given that he states he was patching up Rough Riders on San Juan hill Sweet must have served in the 24th Infantry Regiment (Segregated). So while not an immigrant Sweet still falls into the working class outcast group as most of the other team. Gonna be honest I just look for excuses to rant about how well rooted in real world history the characters in this movie are.

[@seanalexandermedia]

thank you

[@t.p.m.414]

It came out at a bad time. Most the old school Disney fans were teenagers

[@BetterWithBob]

Possibly. And in the 2000s, we were all trying to be too cool and edgy

[@sagev.5818]

*SQUEES* Atlantis is my favorite non Disney princess movie so much!!!! Leonard Nimoy, yes Mr Spock, voiced Kida’s father in Atlantis!!! There is a (iirc) canon reason for the Atlanteans not knowing their own language: After the destruction of their home, King Kashekim Nedakh (Kida’s father) deliberately hid or destroyed their ability to learn their own language and hid the source of the crystals below the palace so that no one else could use the power of the crystals as a weapon like he once did. He is also blind because he deliberately looked at the blindingly bright light of the crystal taking his wife as penitence for his actions.

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah I never caught that as the reason he was blind until I was already editing and someone pointed it out

[@JuriAmari]

The tattoos they have also serve as a clue. The one under Kida’s right eye is a symbol for her being one of the last Atlanteans to be born and raised before and during the Great Flood. I also find it fascinating that the Atlantean royal line is one of the few in Disney to be matrilineal since the Crystal/Heart of Atlantis will not accept anybody but ones of royal blood. Kida’s mom was the one who was taken in even though the kings are in the stones. I think Atlantis is one of the few movies that has a lot of lore they could’ve added but they erred on overcutting than overadding explanations and filler even if it might’ve helped long term. You get a lot of emotion and bonding - by that logic, Atlantis did its job even with the lack of lore.

[@sagev.5818]

@@BetterWithBob that makes sense!

[@sagev.5818]

@@JuriAmari oooh I hadn’t realized that, but it makes sense!! Yeah, that is very fascinating!

[@acousticmonkey2209]

Wasn't there a sequel to this? I thought there was. Or is that a Mandela Effect moment?

[@BetterWithBob]

There was indeed. It was called Milo's Return, made up of some potential episodes from an unproduced series

[@TeylaDex]

yeah, wouldn't go around recommending that video from ladyknightthebrave that much.. brings nothing to the conversation.

[@drahcir8402]

This film did not get the success it deserved.

[@BetterWithBob]

Yeah it's a bit of a shame

[@ryanappleton3653]

...I've never seen this movie. I skipped it for Treasure Planet

[@BetterWithBob]

Why not both?

[@gamingoutlaws9765]

@@BetterWithBobwould you considering doing another Disney video of the princes please I would love to hear your thoughts on Prince Phillip and Eric your recent videos really made me look back and love the princesses and princes especially Philip and Eric. But if I could be a bit cheeky I would love to hear your thoughts on another Disney heroine Esmeralda as well.

[@Jordyb33123]

Never even heard of Titan ae but instantly looks like they copied the animation of Dimitri the second I saw the clips

[@BetterWithBob]

Don Bluth's male leads were like romantic partners. He definitely had a type lol