How Bakhmut Became Europe's Deadliest Post-WWII Battle: A Warographics Analysis

Discover the shocking truth behind the Battle of Bakhmut, the deadliest conflict in Europe since WWII. Unveil the hidden political agendas, Wagner mercenaries, and desperate tactics that turned Bakhmut into a symbol of resistance in the Ukraine War.
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[@SamWal]

"according to the classified documents leaked on Discord... " we truly live in strangest of times

[@typhlosionproductions5970]

😂

[@krall5995]

We got the information from a server named thugshaker general

[@ASavagebboy]

​@@typhlosionproductions59708:25

[@ASavagebboy]

​@@typhlosionproductions5970h

[@ASavagebboy]

​@@typhlosionproductions5970v 9:07

[@bone0101]

You keep mentioning the Somme. The Somme was, indeed, a horrific battle, but I think a more apt comparison would be Verdun. The Somme was a battle fought for some land. Verdun was a battle fought over a city.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

Simon only knows what's written on his script....

[@browngreen933]

Simon only knows Brit battles.

[@LordDaret]

I was also thinking the same. Germany knew that France would throw men at that city because of its symbolism, so they captured it and it proved true. It really was just pure human wave offensives.

[@Ricky_Baldy]

Concur, the German aim of Verdun was "to bleed France white". This seems more apt than the Somme.

[@matthewporter2798]

that is an excellent example since Bakhmut has recently unseated Verdun as the longest battle in human history.

[@longtabsigo]

There was a western journalist in one of Dnipro’s military hospitals the head surgeon was asked about the casualties he is seeing. Interestingly, less than 2% of the patients treated there were gunshot wounds. That means 98+% were shrapnel, that is a horrific statistic for me as a professional soldier with 28 years. That is a very telling number.

[@connormclernon26]

Hence why body armor and helmets are important.

[@longtabsigo]

@@connormclernon26 I was privy to the revolution of both body armor and helmet. When I enlisted, my helmet was the 2 piece “Steel Pot” with the liner, modified for Airborne Operations. My “body armor” was the Vietnam era 2 inch thick “flak jacket.” I wore everything in between, from the the first “Kevlar” “brain bucket” to the 1st generation of the modern helmet. The last body I wore in Iraq was Level IV and I found that I could be “just a little braver” with my kit than I was patrolling the Nicaraguan border with my first issue. It really puts sh¡t in perspective watching those men wade ashore on 5 beached in Normandy.

[@samwill7259]

Artillery and air bombing are the kings of the modern battlefield.

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

@@samwill7259 missile is king of modern war. only reason russia is still standing due to abundance of missiles striking key ukrainian infrastructure

[@dzzope]

@@QWERTY-gp8fd missile is just another form of artillery..

[@MC-gj8fg]

Russia's got 999 problems, but an overcrowded prison system isn't one of them.

[@darrenpowell7225]

Using convicts is a masterpiece

[@descram8094]

But there is another problem now. Crazy criminals are now getting amnestied if they agree to be sent to the front. So when they get back, streets will be filled with them. Filled with criminals which were trained warfare and the use of weapons. And remember, they were amnestied and officially they are cute little white rabbits which never commited any crimes. Amazing, just amazing.

[@Aveoncore]

what counter offense doin

[@aceundead4750]

I never thought id say this, but that's something they got in common with Jay-Z

[@descram8094]

@@aceundead4750 what's about jay z?

[@xsh4dowfallx]

"Snouts firmly jammed in the trough that's built from the bones of fallen soldiers" that line gave me chills. Awesome work as always Simon

[@kif8522]

This should be made into a political cartoon.

[@The_Republic_of_Ireland]

That's darkly poetic

[@Sevo-]

Not simon, the writer.

[@RainytheNB]

cop bootlicker pfp lmao

[@jamespatterson2693]

This is what total war looks like and people have seem to have forgotten this after decades of insurgency wars. The only people how can give us a real look at this kind of warfare are no gone or very few left. The veterans of WWI, WWII, and Korean war.

[@pabloluisalcala-velasco4727]

the western world is so used to insurgency wars that they forgotten how to fight against a similar opponent. probably stopped all these war mongers who wished a world war with china or russia will have to wait.

[@GuineaPigEveryday]

The thing that scares me is how callously a lot of like extreme right-or-left-leaning Western people dismiss this war and its victims according to their conspiracy theories. I mean the dipshit that leaked on Discord cuz he was fed up with the government, might’ve caused hundreds of deaths, and other young ppl online on discord just laughing it off because ‘they deserve it’. say what u want about the past but the internet rlly has desensitised people to conflict, to just laugh it off or minimise it becuz of their own fucking personal issues projected onto it. especially that rant that Jordan Peterson had talking about Ukraine and the Holodomor being fake, and then claiming it all had to do with Ketanji-Brown for fucks sake, that apparently this whole war is a democrat sham

[@ericbarber4297]

Well to be fair their are plenty of people in Syria, easternmost Europe and even some small areas in Asia that can still understand total war because it's literally happened to them in the last 25 years, but yeah not nearly on the same scale we see now

[@Thehomelessathlete]

i would argue there have been some total wars in africa in regards to ethiopa recently and rwanda

[@HumbleAshe]

It’s strange how such a kind of large-scale war waged by Russia was always toyed around in fiction via movies or games (notably the original Call of Duty Modern Warfare trilogy), but now it’s still going on today for over a year. It’s unnerving and terrifying when/if you dwell more on it. Hoping it does reach some kind of end soon.

[@jonhall2274]

What's strange, yet funny, is how our fears thought Russia was some super army, capable of taking on America, when in reality, Russia couldn't even take over a neighboring country that *SHOULD HAVE* been taken in less than a month, some even say a week or two. Meaning Russia just has Bern an absolute failure in this invasion, er, I mean "special military operations". 😂

[@chrismcdonald3379]

K loep0

[@tedcurrently6092]

They've been fighting over this village people Ukrainian vs Russian crap for a thousand years. This is not likely to be the end of that saga.

[@alaintobin6690]

Warzone one was based losly on ukraine

[@trexthethird4622]

They were pretty much the only ones that could be viewed as a threat who would wage wars at the time. China didn't look like they'd be going for Taiwan ever back in 2010, and then you've got Russia who have been fighting in Chechnya and Georiga or the chaos of the Middle East to set a modern conflict

[@Nathan-vt1jz]

It also limited some of the destruction to one city, instead of it spreading to the next city.

[@biggestouf]

​@@ArminiuswolfspeerYou inspire me to write to my congressman to send F-16s. Thank you for giving me the spite to provide the tools for liberty.

[@Aveoncore]

what counter offense doin

[@skol3882]

U could always rebuild cities. People are more important then buildings. Ukranian soilders literally begged to get out of that city. Politicians wasted their service.

[@GnosticAtheist]

@@Arminiuswolfspeer So what you are saying is that Russia invaded Ukraine with the purpose of killing their own people and they see it as a success? #ThanksArminiuswolfspeerForWW3, it is you who pushed for it, you who will be judged. You will be alone with the consequences of your hatred. You will face judgement. Not Putin. Not Biden. You. You are the only one that matters in the end, in front of the throne. Pray that you see what hate has done to you.

[@Arminiuswolfspeer]

@@skol3882 Glad you get it Skol.. Now do the world a little favor and try to explain it to that Yankee war whore in this comment section.

[@StayPrimal]

This war is absolutely horrible.

[@jdawg8487]

@@MortabluntThere was no genocide in the Donbass.

[@jonhall2274]

^^ Yeah, just like Russia totally didn't commit genocide in Bucha... Oh wait! They did!🤦

[@tsdocholiday8965]

@@Mortabluntit would be if that ever happened. It didn’t. Thanks for admitting your a Russian bot

[@josephstalin839]

Well get ready beacuse there will be more on the way in the next decade. Especially the water crisis coming.

[@Iamtheliquor]

All wars are horrible. There’s never been a nice war

[@henricomonterosa4534]

Absolutely spot on about Shoigu and Prighozin. Btw. splendid timing.

[@ignitionfrn2223]

1:20 - Chapter 1 - Tsunamis of blood 6:10 - Chapter 2 - Death of a city 10:55 - Chapter 3 - Symbolic fortress 16:35 - Chapter 4 - Generals gathered in their masses 20:40 - Chapter 5 - Into the meatgrinder

[@DannyByWest]

Just some thoughts for future videos. :) 11:37 here I would find it really helpful if you showed on a map where these cities lie, it would help to see what you are talking about. 8:44 also to use a map here, you don’t need to put out exact lines, but something just so we can see how they advanced through the city. Great video as always!

[@fabioalves7961]

Thank you for educating us on the state of the war with an unbiased opinion. Bless Warographics.

[@History_with_Sirius]

I was keeping tabs on this specific battle because when I first learned about it a few months in and saw the photos, it reminded me so much of Verdun. I am an amatuer historian with my main interest being WW1 and the 20th century with a focus on the early 20th century. I was waiting to see if it would surpass Verdun in terms of length and it did. It's scary to think that even after 100 years a battle like Verdun is still possible. Verdun with drones.

[@wertywerrtyson5529]

Not the first time in history that a city that first appeared to be an easy capture on the march becomes a symbolic city that is fought for far above its strategic value.

[@amazingdany]

It's a very important transportation hub. Beggensky's NATO masters were breathing down his neck hard when Prigojin's men unfurled the Russian flag on May 20th 2023. At least Bakhmut will live in Cokensky's heart (for now).

[@nomdeplume881]

I've been waiting for you to do a video about the Battle of Bakhmut. Thanks 👍

[@Mortablunt]

And it's just as full of Nazi propaganda as you dreamed.

[@dzzope]

One thing you didnt cover from ukraines side is that while they did loose significant numbers, its not like they wouldnt loose people when russia brought the front to their new positions .. However it would being that grinding, total destruction to more of Ukraine. I personally believe Ukraine/Zelenski kept the fighting in Bakhmut in order to confine the worst of the destruction to where it already was.. especially with wagner being primarily involved And civilians being more of an issue with new areas.

[@47CryXMA]

Fair point. Once the civilian infrastructure is MOSTLY destroyed, it's a small step to COMPLETELY destroyed, vs letting several more cities get mostly destroyed.

[@rmmonline]

Your nuts if you think Ukraine got anything good by over staying and finally losing in bakhmut

[@Migolcow]

@@rmmonline You mean besides staying in a defensive position and killing far more of the enemy than they lost for months?

[@Tinnitus1445]

Military it doesn’t confine it, it exacerbates it. Withdrawing to a position with fresh defensive infrastructure could reduce Ukrainian military casualties. As noble as the idea you’re describing is, it’s more pragmatic in the long term to preserve veteran troops and formations not to mention supplies. That would allow Russia to be thrown out faster. Granted it goes both ways we have to remember Russia was using a lot of convict units and mercenaries that aren’t as valuable. Now there’s all sorts of angles they could’ve been working that made it worth the cost, Ukraine and Russia likely know things we don’t. I do hope to think that they didn’t do all that for sentimental reasons alone tho.

[@jamsbean4383]

Most of the UA losses were Territorial Defense... less training and under-equipped. Struggling to take Bakhmut also had a huge impact on morale inside the RF and support for RF from the international community. It sapped RF resources and fueled internal power struggles. Had UA pulled out, they would just have to fight somewhere else and there is no guarantee it would be on so favorable terms. Don't interrupt your enemies when they are making a mistake.

[@kingnaga619]

It’s a fascinating tactic, and something you almost never see in more modern conflicts. The smaller, more resource scarce military, holding a dugout attrition fight to soak up the larger opponent’s resources.

[@nomdeplume881]

@kingnaga619 It's been very much like the Battle of Stalingrad I think. Like that battle, it may well prove the high watermark of the invader's advance during this conflict.

[@johnm8015]

i know its crazy how russia took the city with less men and weapons, those Tos-1 thermobaric missles did the trick

[@kingnaga619]

@@nomdeplume881 One can only hope. Zelenskyy needs his men more than Putin needs his. Putin’s callous disregard for Russian lives has shown that.

[@seanbrazell7095]

That video of the Russian firebombing was unbelievable. Beautiful horror of horror

[@julmdamaslefttoe3559]

@@seanbrazell7095 Its war attrocities are everywhere, From russian warheads hitting civvies, To azov Barracading civvies in basements to then throw grenades down the basement windows when retreating to blame russia.

[@Shachza]

I, keyboard warrior that I am, think that there's likely a factor in Ukraine's decision to fight for Bakhmut that few have really ever voiced: once it became clear that Russia was committing to Bakhmut, it became worth it to Ukraine to exhaust every defensive advantage they could muster, because as long as Russia was attacking Bakhmut, Ukraine knew exactly where Russia was. This is certainly part of "pinning Russia's forces," but I believe the wider Ukraine strategy was specifically to lean on sunk cost fallacy for Russia. As long as Russia had nothing to show for Bakhmut, then Russia was unlikely to pull back to recuperate, _and_ Russia wasn't going to devote troops, ammunition, and materiel to some other offensive that Ukraine would then have to learn about. Ukraine knew exactly where Russia was going to attack, so they did everything they could to make sure Russia continued attacking there, meaning that everywhere else in Ukraine was just that much safer. Also, even if Ukraine was trading troops for convicts, those are still armed Russians who are coming for Ukraine's country. Ukraine was going to have to fight them somewhere, so where better than a known and already prepared battlefield?

[@larsrons7937]

Very good points and analysis, which I believe to have been true all since early autumn last year. And definitely since russia's really putting effort into Bakhmut from December 2022 onwards. And Ukraine did achieve their objectives with holding Bakhmut so tenaciously.

[@larsrons7937]

Shachza I just saw a vodka bot comment on visit. I've seen hundreds of analysts opinions on the issue, so indeed incl. your points too. But yours is clearly not copied but individual elements put together to form your personal opinion. While the bot earned his 4 rubbles your earned my respect for you taking time and effort to think about it and write all this. And I largely agree with you.

[@Shachza]

@@larsrons7937 Why thank you! I won't claim that my opinion was unique, but it does seem to me that most of the reporting in the media was questioning why Ukraine was willing to engage in what was clearly a difficult and very costly protracted battle. What I saw of the opposing opinions was a lot of confidence that defending Bakhmut was part of a plan, and trust that that plan was a good one. I think a lot of the analysts on my side of the fence would agree with my take, and if that is "parrotting, then oh well. There are only so many good sense reasons that Ukraine would have chosen to stay in Bakhmut, so there's probably a lot of overlap in people's opinions on those reasons.

[@Shachza]

@@justinloveday2410 Whether you think my points are unoriginal is apparently a whole different issue than the "parroting" thing, by the way. Parroting means to repeat something without knowing the reasons or the context for that thing. I do not appreciate the insinuation that I did not watch the battle of Bakhmut unfold from start to finish, that I did not look at the competing opinions on whether the battle was a good idea for Ukraine to invest in, that I did not compare those opinions to warfare strategy with an eye to the events on the ground at Bakhmut, that I did not make an informed decision based on all of the above, and that I am instead just repeating what someone else told me because it sounded pretty.

[@oconnor6456]

That's full of cope. Why did Zelensky say no one is going to surrender Bakhmut?? It's his version of Stalingrad. From there on Ukraine failed on every end. He could have saved nearly 30 brigades worth of men, according to Ukrainian sources themselves in Zaporizhia right after the winter when the Russian defenses were being built. Instead he wanted to show the world how they were unbeatable and instead he just showed that he was a joker who lost to a PMC.

[@jdawg8487]

We went from wondering how many days Russia would take Kyiv to wondering how may weeks/months they would take a depopulated small city that even after capturing, their hold on it remains tenuous.

[@chadimirputin2282]

The memorandum signed by zelensky and and Russia that Putin showed to African leaders last week has all the information you need in regards to the pulling out of around Kiev to create the foundations for negotiations which the west leaders stopped with Boris Johnson turning up and telling zelensky not to negotiate.

[@jdawg8487]

@@chadimirputin2282 Source: trust me bro

[@jonhall2274]

^^ yeah, "Chadimirputin" is TOTALLY NOT a Russian orcbot. 💀😂😆😂

[@chadimirputin2282]

@@jdawg8487 source? The memorandum paper that's now being circulated after the African meeting with African leaders. 👍

[@chadimirputin2282]

@@jonhall2274 unlike you, a nafo waifu. ✌️

[@vvss9307]

In Russia Bakhmut is compared with Verdun, not Somme, as a known example of a meatgrinder battle. Mr Prigozhin claims that Wagner lost 20 thousand men in this battle, but he is not known to be the most honest guy, so make whatever you want from this number. Also, Russian side is trying to convince everybody that it all went as planned there. They have even created an unofficial medal in Wagner "For the Bakhmut meatgrinder" and yes, it is literally what it says. There is a conspiracy theory that I have seen but not fully understand and surely can't prove - that Wagner deathtoll has something to do with the monetary compensations for the dead. Like, most of the convited that enlisted are asocial elements that have no family to recieve the money, so Wagner is said to keep it. And when families do recieve money, it is speculated to be somehow less than it is supposed to be... Also, as for a possible reason for weird tactical decisions from the Russian side - one of the most popular versions in Russia itself is the commanders stupidity. Just saying. As for the convicts enlistement - it is reported to drop as they understood for what exactly they are being enlisted for... and then it rose again when the first wave of surviviours was paroled (they are enlisted fir 6 month and then are officially pardoned). But ahortly after that the MoD woke up and shut the shop completely. The conflict between Prigozhin and MoD has surfaced some months ago, and Prigozhin was literally making videos with dozens of his freshly killed soldiers as a background to blame MoD for various things. To say it made a splash is an understatement. This conflict took a turn few hours ago, so stay tuned.

[@larsrons7937]

Yes, and 20 hours later it stopped as sudden as it started. And now 55 hours after the Wagner mutiny started then suddenly ended, we have hundreds of theories but no complete answers to what really happened. Maybe time will tell.

[@user-jv4nj4kf5x]

Yes, Prigozhin claim 20,000 dead his men in the battle But also he claims about 70,000 killed Ukrainian troops So this man claim at least 90K fatalities in the battle Its 5 times smaller than in Verdun, but Verdun is in top-10 bloodiest in history

[@larsrons7937]

20,000 Wagners killed at Bakhmut, Prigozhin might be right. 70,000 Ukrainians killed is *_not_* true. It simply isn't possible. 20,000 is only about 100-200 per day, depending on when Prigozhin started counting (not that he counted their bodies, many have been eaten or are buried under the rubble; P. is estimating). My own contacts inside Bakhmut estimated the Orcs had a dozen or two dead (plus 3 times as many wounded) in their own small section of the town. Ten times for the whole town sounds reasonable. Note: Of the maybe 60,000 Wagner wounded it is quite possible that a large number of them would eventually die anyway from their wounds at a later point, because the medical treatment centres in the rear simply didn't have the capabilities (incl. missing equipment) to save any more than the lightly wounded soldiers. This is according to the russian's own footage, in media and on social platforms like Telegram. As for "70,000 UA dead " at Bakhmut, Ukraine never even had that many troops near that town. Even ten times lower, 7,000, then I for long wouldn't have had any more contacts in Bakhmut. My contacts own estimates was that the Wagner losses was far higher than 10 to 1 to Ukrainians. That is quite higher than the 10 or 7 to 1 we have heard of in many outside estimates. But it does fit with the number of times I've heard of my own contacts losing men in their unit. That would suggest Ukrainian losses of 1-2,000 inside Bakhmut over the 225 days period which is many, but nowhere near Prigozhin insane claim of impossible 70,000. We must raise the question: Is such a huge difference possible? Well there are several factors to count in. We can normally assume that an attacker will suffer more casualties than a defender, often 3 to 1 but can be even higher in urban environment. Well trained and experienced troops can be expected to suffer far less casualties than untrained unexperienced troops. These two factors alone must be not added but multiplied. Then we easily get far above 10 to 1, easily the double too. But there are more factors. In the later stages transport in & out of the UA held side was getting risky. So while rotaion would still happen, troops would to a larger extend than before stay inside, and thus newer and less experienced troops would gain experience a lot faster, and very soon become hardened. Yet many UA troops were very experienced to begin with. The Wagner ex-prisoners arriving on the RU side had no experience, no training, and many wouldn't get to gain much experience. Simply because often their first real experience would also be their very last. "Cannon fodder". This matches stories told by the POWs. It's easy to imagine Wagner claiming 10 Ukrainians dead because they demolished the house they were in 23 seconds ago, not seing them evacuate. The Ukrainians didn't demolish that many buldings, except in the later stages with mined houses blowing up the moment a sufficient number of russian forces had entered it. But if it happened, the untrained conscripts probably wouldn't have known that their hiding position was about to be destroyed, nor how to safely evacuate it in a bullet rain. And since the russians and Wagners didn't evacuate their dead (the Ukrainians did when they could), the Ukrainians would have found their bodies when they returned the next day, and confirm the Wagner losses. Long story, but to sum up: Prigozhin is probably telling the truth concerning Wagner's losses. Concerning Ukraine's losses he is telling a big lie. The claim is simply not possible.

[@user-jv4nj4kf5x]

@@larsrons7937 Yes, it really looks wrong about 70 thousand dead. I said this because they wrote above about the words of Prigozhin as 20 thousand victims, without specifying that these were their own losses, and not all in the battle But in reality, most likely, in the first place, in addition to PMCs, there were also troops of the Ministry of Defense on the flanks and about 7 thousand of them died, and secondly, some of the wounded die in hospitals In modern medicine, no more than 10% of the wounded will apparently die on beds. 27 thousand / 81 thousand in terms of ratio in battle would give up to 35 thousand killed To this number, I would add those not counted as you wrote, for example, those killed by weapons with thermobaric properties, by evaporation of a person. So I admit up to 40,000 victims from the Russian side In Ukraine, the deaf defense factor fights with the fact of less ammunition than Wagner. So the most logical ratio is 1 to 3 Therefore, it seems to me that 12 thousand Ukrainians died there 1 thousand civilians It turns out 53 thousand died in the battle According to civilian principles, it is clear that officially, during the peak of the fighting, 5-7 thousand were sitting in the city, the city is destroyed, some basements obviously could not stand it, say, half of the basements Total casualties IMHO 53,000 About the wounds Unfortunately, in the world history of military conflicts, the number of wounded has never interested anyone. Well, in addition to 53k killed, about 120k were wounded. but who will be interested in the future, people are obsessed with death

[@larsrons7937]

@@user-jv4nj4kf5x _"Who will be interested in the future, people are obsessed with death"._ Sad, but so true. But not all. And maybe it depends on the context. For me, I wish all invaders, as military assets, to go home, be captured, or get wounded or die. But as individuals, every one is a human being, and I wish everyone of them, regardsless of side, to survive, unharmed. Unfortunately war rarely offer such guarantee. Those are very good thought and analysis of the numbers, and close to my own expectations when we counting the flanks. The only thing is concerning inside the town, the unit of those I was in contact with can't be the only one to suffer much less casualties than those suggested in the analyses. Though it doesn't have to be a general picture, it must influence our idea of what the general picture could be like. The actual truth we might never know, or at least not until the war is over. Under normal circumstances yes, of the wounded brought to a real hospital we can probably expect 9 out of 10 to survive. A great issue is the standards of the medical stations closer to the front. Thats where I've seen many sad reports from russian nurses in the rear stating that the wounded that under normal circumstances would be saved, they simply couldn't save them, for lack of supplies and all else. _"Only the most lightly wounded can we save"._ That's where I think the others normally would be transferred to a hospital, but they simple don't make it that far. To me it is heartbreaking. A bit off topic yet concerning the wounded: I recently saw a channel showing statistics over Ukrainians who had lost limbs in battle and gotten surgery and replacement limbs abroad. Over half of them insisted on and did return to the front after recuperation. With an artificial leg or arm. They didn't have to. They wanted to.

[@javiermoya2801]

The War Pigs by Black Sabbath reference is both awesome yet chilling given the known context when it comes to Russian leadership

[@hobohobona]

"General's gathered in the masses, just like witches at black masses"

[@Jimtheneals]

It's almost like Ozzy wrote that specifically for this situation. How prophetic.

[@devonwilson8306]

Excellent timing, with the references to the Prigozhin - Shoigu conflict.

[@kreigpeterson3711]

Simon you are awesome, entertaining and informative. Thank you.

[@iannordin5250]

The reason for Bakhmut's strategic importance is ironically it's unimportance. For Russia, taking it is actually a fairly big deal, and the first step to pushing further into the Donbass. Ukraine knows this, and they also know that the cities to the west are, to put it bluntly, far more important to the Ukrainian economy and war effort. So instead they chose to blunt the offensive in the city and tie down Russian forces there, a kind of sacrificial battleground of their own choosing that keeps the surrounding cities and logistics hubs relatively untouched by the RU war machine.

[@ikaustralia]

Zelenskiy made Bakhmut his Stalingrad: it was a big pr stunt and losing it would equal to losing his face which he did.

[@sikorsky5815]

Losing his face? Really? Holding a city under THAT level of pressure, escaping an encirclement and causing (potentially) 60-80,000 casualties is NOT losing face. Not even mentioning the offensive pushes by Ukraine to recapture areas around Klyshchivka and Berkhivka which have now resulted in a LOT of territory regained. Also, remember, Bakhmut had a job, and that was grind down the Russian war machine. It did just that.

[@ikaustralia]

@@sikorsky5815 It's fascinating to observe how they continue twisting Russian narrative into their own again and again. Grinding in Bakhmut was done by Russians to reduce the Ukrainian forces that had nothing left to launch their, now failed, counter offence. Ukraine had 3 waves of mobilization during the fight for Bakhmut while Russia had none since their initial September one. Meaning Russia kept their forces intact while Ukraine lost a lot that needed to be replenished with new recruits. It all can be understood with a bit of logical thinking.

[@sikorsky5815]

And yet Ukraine is on the offensive after supposedly being grinded down. In various videos, you can clearly see they're in the best shape militarily since the beginning of the war. There is no "twisting of narratives" it is genuinely just Russia going into an urban battle expecting artillery to do all of the work, only to realize that urban warfare is not in fact easy. I do not deny Ukraine suffered. They suffered greatly, but tell me, was Russia NOT meant to be at Slovyansk, Kramatorsk...Chasiv Yar even?? What happened to those plans? Also, no, the Southern offensive is not a failure, they have taken many settlements and managed to cause significant Russian losses (Putin even admits to an extent that Ukrainian loss estimates are fairly accurate) Ukraine did not rely on the manpower in Bakhmut to push Russian forces in the South, most of the brigades in the South have never even TOUCHED Bakhmut, nor have the reserves.

[@ikaustralia]

@@sikorsky5815 no need to watch any videos. Just read mainstream news sources such as The Telegraph, Wall Street Journal, Sky News and others to observe how they all have immediately changed the narrative in the last two months. It's all done, comrade. One had to be delusional to believe that Ukraine, or NATO for that matter, had a slim chance against the Russia alliance with the Middle East and China. Ukrainian forces are exactly the same Soviet people as Russians but with no industrial base and in smaller numbers. What one could expect?

[@ElegantMessTechPC]

Appreciate you covering Ukraine, they've shown immense courage & heart to free their home from this ridiculous aggression from Russia

[@subhajitpaul2977]

Right but expanding near their borders isn't ridiculous but just saying hi to each other right I would love to see how usa 🇺🇸 would have reacted if a cuba 🇨🇺 would have entered into a pro Russian alliance and host Russian nukes at their door step honestly western countries would justify with any ridiculous reason to invade any country they want to but would condemn if anyone else other than them would do the same

[@netiturtle]

@@subhajitpaul2977 why are you yapping about nukes? There was never any prospect of nukes being placed in Ukraine. Even joining NATO alliance would have been more than a decade away in 2014 in best case scenario. And lets not forget Ukraine HAD nukes, which it was persuaded to give up, in exchange of guarantees to sovereignty and territorial integrity, from Russia among others. If the claim is NATO being at Russia's border is the issue: when Finland and Sweden announced plan to join NATO, Putin's reaction was "its not a problem" If claim is placing nukes at bordering countries is the problem: there are Russian nukes in Kaliningrad, there were tactical nukes placed in Belorussia just now. But no new NATO nukes in response, nor invasion of Belarus, not even diplomatic joust over this. If the claim is "west wants to invade and destroy Russia, this was pre-emptive invasion": Russia is weakest it has been for a very long time. Yet no invasion, Ukraine's allies won't even allow attacking Russia's troops or logistics with its long-range missile, inside Russia. Putin's excuses are dumb beyond belief to anyone with a functional brain. Thus you are excluded

[@nolongerblocked6210]

​@@netiturtle 🎯🎯🎯🎯💯 extremely well said!! Putin complaining about NATO has always been nothing but an excuse

[@synthsun7662]

@@subhajitpaul2977 Even ur cook knows.

[@TaCC2]

Didnt work

[@angzel2]

Incredible analytical piece as usual!

[@thomasobrien5997]

Excellent work. Great delivery tks

[@kevinmcqueenie7420]

We need an update now on the "Wagner Coup", and what it all means. Was it real, staged by Putin, just a power play or something else? Damn but it's good to have (relatively) real time analysis of this war beyond the mainstream media. Thanks Simon and team for the hard work. Here's hoping we've seen the beginning of the end to this conflict.

[@larsrons7937]

I have already spent 50 hours (very little sleep) on that topic, and here's my best take on it: Figuring out what happened is like a puzzle. We have all the pieces. But every time we pick up a new piece, it doesn't fit with anything we managed or tried to put together. Everything that we can put into some context where it makes sense, contradicts something else. But every idea or theory can be interesting. Will we ever solve the whole puzzle? Who knows?

[@3goats1coat]

​@@larsrons7937such anomalies usually present themselves by relying on a faulty reference matrix. In this case, most probably attributing too much forethought and/or intelligence to the participants. I know it's a cliche to think of major leaders and power players as fumbling idiots, but they aren't 4d chess playing criminal masterminds either. But if you want to hear my thoughts, better put: a single question. *What's our assurance that the audio or video of that day is Prigozhin?* A 14yo kid can make convincing deepfakes nowadays. We got the technology.

[@panemetcircenses6003]

@@3goats1coatanother interesting take I saw on the claim that the US/UK knew about the Wagner plans. If that’s so, then it would be very likely Russian counter intelligence also knew. That potentially makes the army shelling Wagner not the inciting incident, but an attempt to nip it in the bud. The Wagner rebellion then becomes a reaction to being found out, moving fast and hard out of desperation.

[@3goats1coat]

@@panemetcircenses6003 yes. Except that the US intelligence claims they know everything in every backwater shithole, yet they can't stop a single school shooting even when advertised days ahead on social media? They have to say they knew it, just to save face. They don't even know with which side of the toilet paper you're supposed to wipe.

[@jessehachey2732]

@@larsrons7937 For someone who claims to have spent so many hours on the topic, you sure said very little of substance 🤦🏼‍♂️ Anyone could have come up with the puzzle analogy and said who knows if it’ll be solved, with spending zero time on the topic 🙄

[@MikeBenko]

The fact that any civilians at all are left in Bakhmut is absolutely mind boggling.

[@robertturner5848]

Love your monologues Simon. Thank-you.

[@Glan432]

Thanks for great material

[@javierpatag3609]

Watching this 8 days after it was posted. 1 day after uploading was Wagner’s ultimately aborted rebellion. So many new revelations confirming this video’s info- and so many new details and developments that give more shape to this video.

[@matthewrussell4679]

How tf do you think I feel? King Wagner is DEAD NOW😭

[@petermiller7978]

Excellent Analysis especially reference to Black Sabbath - War Pigs - Generals using soldiers like expendable pieces of pawns on a chess board. And I think a lot of Sub Conscious stuff is going on when neither the Ukrainians or Russians will back down over this conflict & agree new terms & go back to making money - Keep up the good work with your team Simon, Pete Miller from Bristol UK

[@blackterminal]

Thanks for the video.

[@shawndunlap714]

I watch all your channel and I've never heard you, ' quote Ozzy Osbourne ', that was really cool Simmon ❤

[@richarddemeter860]

This is one of the best written narratives I’ve seen on KZbin. Very impressed!

[@loloshitake4594]

Really? I thought it was full of western propaganda and contradicted itself several times. Also, simon and team have no military experience or background.

[@fencserx9423]

“Breathtakingly cynical thought” is a great line

[@haldorasgirson9463]

You are the hardest working man on KZbin.

[@rocko7711]

Excellent video

[@Pleplerhep]

With all those deaths, imagine the smell of rotting corpses that must be everywhere, on top of the fighting in the ruins, must be unbearable.

[@elilawhorn3724]

Morale (both civilian and military) often plays a big part in strategic thinking. Leaders don't want troops to be focused on retreat or loss. Nor do politicians want their constituents thinking of defeats. Yet one more factor on top of tactical and strategic orientation.

[@petersaunders5808]

I love how you said “it seems as if Prigozhin and Shoygu are trying to destroy one another.“ Having a healthy dose of hindsight, all I can respond with is “Yeah. Ya don’t fuckin’ say.” XD

[@craigfurlong7981]

hey Simon... i know you must have alot of time on your hands, ya know, with so few channels to your name...lol... Maybe a video on your other channel about the Titanic sub. Just finding the debris feild as i type.... thamks for your great work...

[@rullja]

Simon Whistler.....you are such a storyteller, and I think your coverage of this is going to be remembered long after we're gone

[@chriscassel6621]

Remembered as laughable nato propaganda for the ignorant.

[@nvwlsnvwls2785]

So true, his depth of knowledge and powerful delivery is so impressive.

[@Iamtheliquor]

⁠@@nvwlsnvwls2785depth of knowledge? You do know he’s reading a script, right?

[@Iamtheliquor]

@@merlijnbazuine5075 In the age of the internet anyone can research anything. Research isn’t a depth of knowledge. I can write a copied thesis on quantum physics, that doesn’t make me knowledgable on the subject. Who’s to say it’s correct? I mean we in the west are getting fed the western narrative. Those in Russia and their allies are being fed theirs. But sure, Simon is a great presenter with a hardworking team that manage to put out the amount of videos across all of their channels.

[@heikos4264]

Would be nice if he would put a simmilar effort in his pronounciation of foreign languages (for example, it just took me 10 seconds to find and hear a proper pronounciation of Kharkiv). When it comes to that he is just a medicore butcher. I love his work/his channels, but especially when it comes to german and pronounciation he is an idiot. He nearly always makes fun of the language to distract from his inability to properly pronounce the words. Makes fun of german compound words while not having the tiniest bit of an idea that english and german are very close to being exactly the same when it comes to that, with the only difference that in german it often is written as one long word while in english it is written as single words. But when it comes to pronounciation it is the same in both cases, spoken as one long word, ZERO difference. It may sound unbelievable to some, but often enough the german version is the shorter one. If you're fluid in both languages you will notice that english and german are nearly equal when it comes to the amount of compound words, it's just that people like Simon don't notice it because of the writing. Many people are superficial enough that they will never notice that and will forever think english always has shorter and easier words, but after speaking english for more than 20 years i am pretty sure that i have seen an equal amount of cases in which the german words were shorter and easier. Both languages are very close, but too many people can't see it because they can't see past the predujice and sterotypes that are parroted everywhere. After watching thsi for years i am close to being sure that Simon is one of them. Sorry that it slipped into TLDR land, but i am watching Simon since YEARS and this is the first time i said something about this topic...

[@gp-1542]

Took me a moment to process when he said “according to classified documents leaked on discord” What a time we live in

[@IpsissimusBoz]

the Ukrainian military made a trailer for their counter offensive. you can pay to have memes written on artilery shells being fired. you can buy keychains of a bit of downed russian aircraft. we've gone full cyberpunk no one has realized it yet.

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

@@IpsissimusBoz thats because american intelligence is top notch. its not classified document in discord. actual classified documents probably know everything about russian war plans.

[@JG-nm9zk]

Just getting to the city was a struggle. A week to capture a gas station, another to capture the dump, five days to capture a cottage, etc etc.

[@VNG_oof]

It’s beyond my words how some of this horrific battles’ true death count documents were exposed in a discord server named “Thug Shaker Central” Imagine some people in 80-90 years finding out the meaning behind the Thug Shaker

[@seanbrazell7095]

It'd be great to see a Biographics episode on Zelinsky and Shoygu. (Or anyone else for that matter! 😉🙏)

[@Trixterion]

Shoygu isn't famous as a minister of defence in Russia, he has 0 military education and was simply placed there. The exact person who might be the one who had the most influence in Russia over the conflict is hard to point out.

[@seanbrazell7095]

@@Trixterion All the more reason.

[@BHuang92]

It is mind-boggling that Bakhmut has now become the longest battle in history, surpassing Vurdun by a month now!

[@Punchmemommy]

I dig the Black Sabbath & MEGADETH (Area 51) references in your videos. Simon has great taste in music!

[@EntryLevelLuxury]

The mud brought by the Fall and Spring is particularly terrifying. It swallows bodies whole and dries into solid dirt.

[@sling8015]

It’s sad to see history repeating itself 😢

[@Gorlami90]

That’s literally how humans operate. Unless there’s an extinction threat of the entire planet, there will always be tribes fighting each other

[@NicoBabyman1]

War… war never changes.

[@GDTRFB]

Watching this as a US combat veteran of several tours, the faith and morale on the Ukrainian side is unfathomable to a vast majority of people, my fellow countrymen in the states have no clue how good they truly have it.

[@HumbleAshe]

I definitely understand what you mean; people back here in the states don’t have that worry of constant shelling or who knows what else back in Ukraine. We’ve only seen and heard about it through broadcasts or shared footage. Meanwhile, Ukraine has been hit hard by the war for about a year and half now with the devastation caused by Russian aggression, but they’ve still been holding on and are even turning towards the offensive.

[@Kstang09]

I know *exactly* how good I've got it. I wouldn't last a couple days over there.

[@IpsissimusBoz]

oh i know how good we have it, I have friends who didn't come home from their tours. I got tear gassed back in the bush days protesting to get you all the fuck out of there. glad you made it back, and true most American's have no concept of what desperation, violence, or force actually looks like in person and are making policy accordingly. Lot of mofos in the usa who wanna FAFO who never watched any combat footage from syria or the donbas and don't know what they are asking for.

[@shiftymcgee9359]

Agreed as a veteran myself and visitor of over 26 countries. Our problems here in the US are self inflicted and petty by comparison.

[@scowler7200]

They've been wrestling with this beast for ten years!

[@EntryLevelLuxury]

Good god this man has so many channels

[@WilliamNeacy]

NEVER. Give up your nukes.

[@Nealetony]

The city broke before its guardians.

[@ravengrey6874]

A person of culture, I see

[@gregorygaskill5412]

Wagner claims the dead deserted to avoid paying out contractual agreements. Corruption and disregard for human life is appalling.

[@chrisplacido4737]

Simon crushed that intro

[@user-cx2bk6pm2f]

"Generals gathered in their masses"... I could not read this without feeling Ozzy's darkness 🤘

[@jimmysundberg2376]

Backhmut is like Verdun. It is more about symbolism. Ukraine knew that Russian will send as much men as possible to take the city. Plus they much rather let Russian focus on one cities than many other.

[@asavelakuse6865]

The Russians used the time to build the defense in the South fronts. It achieved the one thing as to drain Ukraine of soldiers while Russia lost convicts. Funny how now the Ukrainians are admitting the Counter offensive is not going as expected after months of fighting. With Russia launching offensives elsewhere it shows how both sides drained each other like a boxing match the one who gets tired out loses.

[@andersjjensen]

No. It was purely about not seeing another city leveled with the ground. Pulling back would just have moved the battle there. There was no symbolism. Just a cost-benefit analysis. But Factboi missed the key point: Ukraine has two options. Either they see it destroyed, or they give it to Russia willingly. Bakhmut was chosen for destruction because it has many sturdy Soviet era 8-12 story concrete buildings on the far side from the Russian advance. Russia had to start in an area with mostly single story residential buildings, and constantly advance towards taller and taller buildings. The river down the middle also made for a formidable obstacle, and the heavy duty industrial buildings in the north withstood constant artillery bombardment for months before they were given up. Bakhmut was sacrificed slowly to keep Lysychansk and Kramatorsk. That Bakhmut's layout made it as ideal as could be for trading Russian blood for piles of rubble was just Ukraine's luck.

[@jimmysundberg2376]

I did mention that Ukraine wants Russia to focus on one small city than many other.

[@ericrodriguez7423]

@@asavelakuse6865I mean have you seen Russia focus on any other city other than Bakhmut. Russia used this opportunity to fortify its defenses, but Ukraine needed to buy time to wait for western weaponry. It will cost Ukraine a lot of forces since they are now on the offensive. They will advance little by little.

[@asavelakuse6865]

@@ericrodriguez7423 Haven't you heard the Russians are attacking right now in Luhansk. The Ukrainians announced it a while back and also along the the entire front the Russians countering the Ukrainians with mixed success. One place is bombarded by TOS1A themobaric missiles as the Ukrainians entered.

[@KW-qd1bi]

Do mariupol next .

[@nobodyherepal3292]

He did like nearly a year ago

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

The intensity of the battle and the high number of casualties has been compared to the Battle of Verdun in World War I.

[@stevencolor3389]

The reason that wars have been much smaller since 1945 was the invention of nuclear ordinance and advancements in rocketry. Pre- nuclear world casualties would be concentrated mostly to the front lines, meaning so longs as your side did well enough the leader of the country and high ranking generals were safe within the capital far from the front. Civilians located away from the front were also pretty safe as at worse they were at risk of an air raid designed to destroy a factory or some critical roadway/bridge/rail hub/etc to hinder logistics. The war climbed out of ww1, the great war with around 20 million dead, witnessing creeping barrages, gas attacks and entire countryside's turned to mud, shell craters and debris. In just over 2 decades (1918-1939) the horror of "the great war" had faded enough for the world to once again tear itself apart. For millennia, the morale objections and the horrors of war have faded to the point where the desires for another war have prevailed. There were 3-4 crusades (depending if you count the peasant crusade prior to the first crusade) all within 100 years. With the invention and use of nuclear ordinance and with advancements in rocketry allow advanced powers the ability to destroy massive chunks of cities from long range. This changed the reason to not fight from a morale concern to a practical one. Now a single bomber with a special payload or a rocket could use nuclear bombs to destroy what would take many planes and several missions. For examples, the v1 and v2 rocket back from the 1940s could cross the channel and hit London from occupied territories, while Germany had no nukes developed those weapons had a payload weight of about 1000kg. Size requirements shrank rapidly and efficiency skyrocketed, about a decade post war the davy crocket nuclear warhead weighed only about 76 pounds and was designed to be fired from a recoilless rifle platform that could be carried on a jeep. Post war it would not take long to combine rockets and nuclear payloads, as others figured out how to and made their own warheads the calculation for war changed as now there was a risk an enemy would respond to an attack by sending warheads into your cities and devastating your country and possibly killing you in the blast.

[@Dixon_Gaper]

Those are magnesium incendiary shells fired from grad rockets, not white phosphorus. Phosphorus is much, much more smoke inducing. I'm not saying this to justify Russians' use of this weapon, just trying to better inform people.

[@larsrons7937]

What my friend was hit by _was_ white phosphorus. It ignites with contact with oxygen. They stopped it from burning by putting a bandage on. Much later, upon removing the bandages, it burst into flames again. The only option was to let it burn out and hope the injury wasn't too severe. It was really nasty. : (

[@multiyapples]

Rest in peace to those that passed away.

[@KingJohnMichael]

And the rebellion is over They turned around and whent home.

[@toastgamer0864]

Is it bad that I'm starting to think that bakhmut is the Ukrainian gettysburg? I mean just think about it both bakhmut and gettysburg are small towns that had to be taken for a bigger offense both were turned into brutal slugfests and (hopefully) both battles turned the tides of war for the defending side

[@marcellusdiederich808]

Now that reports say Prigozen has turned Wagner around and started marching back towards Moscow, I imagine the next part is going to be a little different than Simon planned... Very informative and a great way to become informed on this rapidly changing conflict!

[@deansheets]

Makes you think if certain people watch these videos.

[@bearok89]

aged like fine wine this video damn

[@Cryptid71]

It’s the most unfortunate aspect of war but when you look back in history, often those who are willing to sacrifice the most usually end up the victors.

[@SCAR116]

Do a video on ukraine and Russian military sizes and losses

[@DuBaas007]

This will only be accurately possible once the war is over.

[@andersjjensen]

That's impossible to get even half way right.

[@tuehojbjerg969]

@@andersjjensen considering it is illegal to compile any sort of losses in Russia punisable with up 10 years imprisonment and that we dont know the actual losses of any conflict russia been involve in the last 100 years

[@SCAR116]

@@andersjjensen yeah probably ukranians and russians supporting gonna hate me but I'll say 150 thousand dead on both sides

[@larsrons7937]

​@@tuehojbjerg969There are organisations within russia that collect data on new graves (and the cause of death) in russia. Without violating the law. This data suggests that the numbers of russian casualties, as estimated by Western countries and Ukraine, are more or less correct.

[@RusselTanTing-kf8zm]

Bakhmut is very comparable to the fighting… at Verdun

[@bradleydavies4781]

Stalingrad keeps coming to mind .

[@francoistombe]

Parallels to Russia's defending Stalingrad came to my mind. Russia used convicts there, but these were gulag prisoners (political prisoners). Getting rid of political problems and Nazi soldiers at the same time worked for Stalin.

[@tombakabones274]

I love the quote from Black Sabbath not only is it a fitting reference but it also goes to show that there's a lot more to heavy metal music than just loud obnoxious noise

[@MrTech-jg6wt]

Love your work of fiction

[@baneofbanes]

Such as?

[@marcobonesi6794]

it was basically a way for each side to grind the enemy with brutal attriction. We shall see in the coming months who has been able to absorb these casualties better.

[@legozackproduct111]

My money is on Russia given the amount of bodies they can throw at their problems

[@michakrynicki7299]

​@@legozackproduct111russian demographics aint that great

[@fiendersPT]

@@user-jt4pk8ii4z the fuck are you talking about? Russia isnt using 1940's soviet union tactic. Simon already explained what it is. If that was the case then why are they still on their 3rd draft compared to Ukraines 8th

[@cpttankerjoe]

@@michakrynicki7299none of Europe’s demographics are great.

[@Anomaly-uz9pr]

@@cpttankerjoeand Russia has the worst of them all Ukraine and Russia have the worst demographics in Europe at the end of the day they both lose because of this war

[@user-ru7by6dq7v]

In chechen war, the name of the fortress was called Bamut. Quite ironic yeah...

[@ErnestoBrausewind]

Another case for Clausewitz' "...nothing is as difficult as retreating from an undefendable position"

[@HERPDe]

I am here again to ask that Warographics also be put out as a podcast

[@jsinope2786]

I’d like to see a mini-doc on the Wagner Group. Such a strange concept.

[@Antekdzi1]

There is one already just search for it your ignoramus

[@shiba3071]

It's not that strange, they're a Mercenary Group. Mercenary Groups have always played a role in Wars

[@larsrons7937]

That they are mercenaries isn't strange. But the concept of a catering company needing an army of mercenaries _is_ strange. But this is russia. - Shoigu. He already controls the whole military. So of course he too has a private army of mercenaries. Natural for any politician. Right? - Chechnya. Run by a gang of mercenaries. Why not? - Gazprom. Like any natural gas company with respect for themselves they too have a private army of mercenaries. Simply because... of course they do. _"Oh, those russians!"_ 🙄

[@pesymistyczna]

Fourth! Sława Ukrainie!

[@alaintobin6690]

Of all the Simon Whistler youtube channels this is definitely in top 3

[@jmanj3917]

18:40 I can see that backfiring horribly.

[@orange8420]

At this rate russia itself is a joke

[@sinakeyhani929]

Now we have Wagnar rebellion😑 The situation regarding Bakhmut is still not very clear but the video did explain perfectly the recent actions of Wagnar mercenary army. Excellent work as always👌🏻👍 With all these new conflicts this channel definitely won’t run out of content😁

[@KingJohnMichael]

Sadly we don't

[@larsrons7937]

...and 20 hours into the rebellion it suddenly ended. Out of the blue. _What? What happened there?_

[@Nomad111.]

Wow when I clicked on this I was surprised it was Simon.

[@Iridescent_Astraea]

Think it's also worth mentioning that the geography and layout of the city favors Ukraine. The largest buildings and urban center to the West overlook the smaller neighborhoods to the east, while open ground like the railway running through the city provide a killing ground. Even if Russia shells those larger buildings, there is still ruins left to take cover in. Meanwhile, these large buildings also block sightlines to some of the major roads to the West that allow Ukraine to reinforce the city, even if it's somewhat risky to rely on that narrow corridor, it all helps them to keep the casualty rates in their favor. And yeah, as someone else mentioned, stopping them at Bakhmut prevents the violence from spilling further. Sloviansk and Kramatorsk are far more populated cities, and even though they could likely be larger fortresses, it comes at the cost of many civilians likely fleeing and slowing down efforts to defend the city, not to mention the potential human cost.

[@larsrons7937]

Good points. I believe that is correct.

[@kalez963]

Ukraine had more casualties than russia in bakhmut

[@TizbutaScratch]

With artillery. You're not counting bodies. You're counting parts.

[@PhoenixAscending]

15-20,000 Ukranian deaths in Bakmut is still a hell of a lot. I know Russia has lost many more, but with their population being much more than Ukraine's, they can probably more afford to lose the soldiers

[@andersjjensen]

Russia only has a population 3 times bigger than Ukraine. And they're on average a bit older, and on average have more women (many Russian men die of alcohol related problems in their 40s). If we go with a conservative ratio of 4:1 in favour of Ukraine, which is rather low for urban assault, then the Russian population size advantage is already gone.

[@PhoenixAscending]

@@andersjjensen with all that being said, you know as well as I do that they still have more manpower to draw from. I think Ukraine will win the war...I was just making an observation. If Putin is not taken out, then he will send men in their 60's to their deaths. You know that as well as I do. It will take a lot more deaths for him to come to the negotiating table with terms favorable to Ukraine. The thing is, how much more will the Russian people put up with, until they rise up aganst him in mass

[@nihluxler1890]

Mate, the Wagner group still exists, and they successfully cleared and held the entire city, which means they were and still are a combat effective unit. That’s mathematically impossible if they hade taken even just 15.000 KIAs, and that’s just Wagner we’re talking about. The regular Russian military was basically playing support the entire time and is almost entirely untouched.

[@nobodyfromnowhere3597]

15-20k that’s what Ukraine and NATO wants you to believe the truth is far worse.

[@hobojoe5697]

​@@nihluxler1890all these claims of russian having higher casulty than the Ukraine is just plain wrong. The russian has air and artillery superiority that numbers doesn't add up. Are the russians lossing people? Heck yeah its war but not whatever the Kiev government or any Western news outlet is claiming.

[@Ruosteinenknight]

That part about Prigozhin vs Shoigu & Gerasimov really aged well, didn't it?

[@anthonyrogers3027]

I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight. General George Patton, Oct 4th 1944

[@IVWOR]

💪🇺🇦🇨🇿❤️

[@larsrons7937]

Slava Ukraini! Heroyam Slava! 💙💛

[@PhoenixAscending]

There have not been any wars in western Europe since WW2, unless you count the Greek civil war, which would be more southern Europe, but there have been several in Eastern Europe, half of which are started by Russia. Goes to show that your definitely not safe being a neighbior to hostile Russia

[@americasfavoritebrazilian2399]

America has been a very close neighbor for over a century. Never a problem

[@PhoenixAscending]

@@americasfavoritebrazilian2399 first of all, I was referring to Russia's european neighbors. Secondly, do you remember something called the Cold War? I would say that was a problem. It would be pretty hard for Russia to invade through Alaska, and they know better than to mess with the US like that

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

​@@PhoenixAscendingOfficially Alaska is already part of the United States but I don't recognise it either.

[@zoranzwalua405]

The battle of helms deep was pretty cruel as swell

[@TipoftheMitt69]

Beer mugs Simon, make me beer mugs.

[@fahadkelantan]

None of this would have happened if the Russian public didn't approve of this. Everyone is responsible for thinking critically.

[@Migolcow]

Let's be fair. There are certainly frothing warmongers and whatnot on the russian civilian side. But there's plenty more who are just watching the horror happen, wishing they could do something but knowing a bullet to the head for not just them but their family and children would suffer huge consequences if they actually try.

[@Ricky_Baldy]

Russians were arrested for holding up blank pieces of paper. They would have to rise en masse and it doesn't seem enough are minded to do that.

[@NexUtInfinitus]

@@Migolcowso you’re admitting they are cowards and slaves? Better to die for something than stand for nothing.

[@canadianbacon9819]

Also I am actually curious you spoke a lot about Russian casualties, what about the Ukrainian ones though? Why don't they reveal numbers at all? They stopped last October at like 10-13,000 kia? Not a Ukrainian has died since?

[@bjarkiengelsson]

They're at roughly 20,000 KIA so far. Idk what site you're at, but find another. Yours might have been abandoned.

[@canadianbacon9819]

@@bjarkiengelsson oh okay sweet, they giving out updates, just as far as I heard they hadn't given update since October last year

[@nihluxler1890]

About 3 to 4 time as many Ukrainian KIAs for Bakhmut alone. Roughly 300 days at a rate 100+ KIAs a day on average. If we’re talking irretrievable losses (dead and unable to fight again) we could easily be looking at 70.000 casualties. I mean, 60% loss rate for a rotation was pretty good for units posted on that front…

[@canadianbacon9819]

@@nihluxler1890 that's what I had heard that points it was eight and 7-1 in terms of casualties, the Russians and UN / NATO talk about Ukrainian casualties all the time. But the fact that Ukraine is so shady about their losses shows that they're enormous

[@jessehachey2732]

😂 You’re pretty dense for a Canadian eh? No critical thinking skills in sight 🙄 (and devoid of any military experience 🤦🏼‍♂️). You people are embarrassing FFS! Get educated!

[@vinsklortho2008]

Bakhmut is like that war's Verdun and its messed up that I am comparing anything to Verdun in the year 2023. :(

[@PegLegNinja]

I'm digging the new intros for the channels

[@kostastopalidis9173]

So the only reason Russia kept the offensive going was because shoigu wanted Wagner soldiers to die? No other tactical or strategic goals? How can you be so biased... Given the failures of offensive operations against well prepared opponents seen in this war, Russia has made the change of the type of warfare it wages. They conduct attritional warfare, through and through. So attacking in a city Ukraine holds no matter what, provides the potential enemy casualties they aim for. Especially when you think when the battle for the actual city started, in march. When rasputitsa season starts, no offensive can be executed in the open fields due to rain and mud, therefore an attack on a (strategic gateway) city with PAVED roads is the only place where you can attack. Same as the Ukrainians, so did the Russians have a reason to keep the attack going. You should be more open to the idea that not everything Russia does is due to them being monsters

[@tuehojbjerg969]

the battle for the city started last june for the city itself november, Russia will lose in attritonal warfare since millions of fighting men left Russia and their losses are several times that of ukraine

[@kostastopalidis9173]

@tuehojbjerg969 the didn't capture soledar until January, how could the have fought in the city from November? And the casualties number you are referring to are exclusively from western "sources", that are very biased. It would be the same to take the MoD of Russia seriously about their numbers of Ukrainian casualties, which are equally absurd. In order to get an more accurate image for the actual casualties, you have to cross-reference all sources, not just nato and western officials

[@tuehojbjerg969]

@@kostastopalidis9173 like Wagner admitting they lost over 20000 dead in the city alone, they went after soledar when the first attempts on bachmut failed in november, An no they are not from western sources they are form russian that say at least 40000 died in bachmut western are saying double that, Actually the russian MOD are using their own loss numbers and claim they are ukrainian