How Big is Smash Melee's Skill Gap?

#smashbros #melee #shorts

[@1karlave]

Lol Aura double four stocked my friend in pools at BOBC4, who usually crushes me and I genuinely think is quite good at the game. Can win locals. So yeah, there are levels to this.

[@omereissa5435]

You

[@TriopsTrilobite]

I remember mang0 saying that the best part about new people trying melee for the first time, is them realizing how cracked our top players are

[@CreamyPesto505]

​​@@TriopsTrilobite I'm bronze tier trash and the best player of anyone I know. I love fucking someone up and them being stunned, then I show them Big House 9 Grand Finals highlights.

[@KelpyG.]

@@TriopsTrilobite i mean for it being a 20+ year old game I expect the top players to be pros

[@suned3128]

@@KelpyG. Calling the top players pros is an understatement. Being top 100 definitely makes you a pro, but as you saw in the video the gap between top 10 and top 50 is still quite massive.

[@oneunfunnyguy612]

Someone in the crowd at Genesis 9 yelled, "This is a multiplayer game!"

[@plasticbudgie]

The fact Amsa is second as Yoshi absoloutely shows how big of a gap there is between everyone and Amsa.

[@t3rcx]

Melee skill gap is more or less the same as any competitive sport (which is to say, incredibly huge). Like there's you, the kid in middle school who was better at basketball than you, the kid on that kid's high school team who dunked on everyone, the kid on the college team who started ahead of that kid, the kid at the rival college team who got NBA scouted, the NBA starters on that guy's team, and the NBA starters on a better team, and then Steph and Lebron.

[@IHarleyWin]

To quote the great Scalabrine, "I'm closer to lebron than you are to me."

[@fuegoredlego]

This is a great point. I want to add that a part of the skill gap in popular sports is also an athlete’s ability to make use of physical traits that the “average person” might not be able to compete with. Melee’s skill gap can feel comical at times because the gap can be seen clearly in the game, but there are very few external traits we can use to guess who might have an advantage. The taller basketball player won’t necessarily be better but I certainly have more hope for a 6”5’ hooper than a 5”6’ one 😅

[@YemiAjayi_]

i never thought about it like that

[@twig7219]

Chess is another good sport because Elo rankings exist to give a very transparent view of how good players are. Every 100 elo pt difference indicates about a 65-35 matchup. If you put a beginner player at about 1000 elo (could be lower depending on what you define as "beginner"), the best player in the world is over 2800, meaning that there are 18 tiers in between a beginner and the best player in the world.

[@0oShwavyo0]

@@twig7219 that is the case for any game with an ELO system as it’s just a mathematical system for ranking, not chess specific. Your point stands, just saying that there are many games where you can observe a large skill gap between top competitive players and average players by looking at the ELO distribution. I play AOE2 and sit at around 1k ELO with the top players having just cracked 2800, so it’s the same boat for me with like a 0.1% chance of taking a game off one of the top players.

[@bobramage7993]

keep up the shorts homie they help new people find out about the scene

[@archangel8444]

For real

[@debeb5148]

Why does that matter? They would get washed for years and years and years before they feel even half decent at the game.

[@Meechell]

@@debeb5148 bro I get your salty and keep getting destroyed in unranked but that’s irrelevant here

[@debeb5148]

@@Meechell Honestly, I am probably better than you. Dunning Kruger goes both ways. You think I suck? You must be EVEN worse

[@Meechell]

@@debeb5148 maybe you are but that doesn't mean the scene should never get new players. the game would die out. be more positive

[@CreamyPesto505]

What's wild is that Aura would body like 85% of the player base, if not more. The top is the top for a reason.

[@codetaku]

the playerbase at large? way way more than that. Aura vs #100 should win 9 out of 10 games, and Melee has over 10 thousand of active players across just this country (only like 2 thousand or so can attend multiple majors per year but way more play on slippi at all). So if you assume he bodies roughly everyone below rank 100, you can safely say he bodies 99% of the playerbase ... but then Zain bodies 99.9%

[@TheDragDavid]

Crazy number hahah, he is literally ranked 46 in the entire world

[@CreamyPesto505]

Yeah, I just used a random high number, figured I was undershooting, but meh. The point still got across.

[@alex-sm2iw]

If you do the maths on that it would make the melee player base approx ~307 people lmao

[@austinrobinson8130]

85% gotta be the worst estimate I’ve seen on youtube

[@odd_potion]

The levels in melee are insane. That guy who 4 stocks you with ease? He's getting 4 stocked by some other dude. And on and on and on and on and no matter how good you get you will never be immune from getting bodied by someone.

[@debeb5148]

That's why it a waste of time to even try lmfao

[@supwititproductionz3738]

@@debeb5148 Can say the same about any pursuit, but then you'll never end up doing anything. Comparison is the thief of joy.

[@debeb5148]

@@supwititproductionz3738 That's exactly my point actually, you're invalid in anything you do

[@debeb5148]

@@supwititproductionz3738 Comparison is a tool of success and a weapon to beat the weak with. Welcome to earth, you're worthless and someone is always better, richer, more powerful, more important, more influential, more remembered, and even more hated. Your existence and mine is completely inconsequential to any event that happens on earth

[@supwititproductionz3738]

@@debeb5148 you felt the need to make 2 comments, 10 hours apart. rent free

[@kevinguimond7711]

And then every non top 100 player would get washed by Aura

[@debeb5148]

And the tiers keep going down from there lol

[@TheQueensAce719]

Zain's Marth's movement is so graceful. It's the little things like this that keep the Melee community alive.

[@ThevenimX]

Last time something like this happen was when #6 Hax played Mang0 then got “walk up down smashed” on Mang0’s two off characters

[@ADavidJohnson]

That was what made “the Five Gods (+Leffen) era” so different and honestly less exciting than now. The drop off was so immediate and huge then, whereas now, the gap is probably equivalent to top 5 vs people outside the top 30.

[@dubzndrugs]

Ppmd vs hax would be a much better example

[@cubicalprobably]

That was years ago, things like this happen often. Zuppy vs Zain at Collision this year is another example.

[@mimixis]

and then there is mango placing top 90

[@leonblum816]

With Dr Mario

[@Pingponglu42069]

Yeet

[@BlueGrovyle]

You mean top 100. He got 97th.

[@CoDMunichTV]

its not like he has to prove something

[@orb3796]

​@@CoDMunichTV He kinda does considering he spends more time claiming he's the goat than he does actually winning tournaments

[@dwax8329]

yo shoutouts aura though lol, WA resident and he wipes the floor with me without putting in any energy

[@adambarker1626]

West Africa has a smash scene?

[@dwax8329]

@@adambarker1626 WA state, not W.A. lol

[@frogturtle]

It’s funny because the 46th ranked player in this game is still an absolute uncaged monstrosity against most players on earth including tournament players lol

[@Goodbylekyle]

I mean it was auras secondary shiek, but still zain is cracked

[@mustachewalrus]

Now show the clip where his butt gets beat by Wally cleanly in a 2-0 at last Genesis

[@Boredalec777]

zain not having a shiek problem

[@mL-7992]

This shows how volatile is a game like melee, Squid ranked number 91 take Jmook number 3 to game 5 and almost won in this Genesis X, this just show that to be so good and dominant between games takes a lot of discipline and understanding of the game

[@Rspknlikeab0ssxd]

That movement at the end is clean

[@daviguilherme1287]

First there was 5 gods in melee Now theres a whole pantheon

[@bailujen8052]

The Australian Fox player used to be ranked 101 but jumped to rank 15

[@ChemSSBM]

Aura’s sheik is new lol

[@KieraQ0323]

Zain dogged on Aura’s Peach too in the same set, when Aura gave up going Sheik.

[@k1kk0ssbm13]

I've seen sets of leffen and armada 4 stocking each other back and forth. The gap is alot closer than u think, even if the stocks don't represent it

[@Yokai_Yuri]

Meanwhile in Ultimate: A top 60 can kick your ass if you don't play 100%.

[@noahmay7708]

Zain fumbles combo, opponent fails to punish so he up-b's. "how does he see it so differently?"

[@-shi.v-]

i remember watching this live. it blew me away

[@CC_-pn2og]

I am glad franz is ranked so high now

[@Shaeffen_]

Zain vs Wally SSC 2022

[@rucksack_kh]

Poor Aura, sets like these ruin careers.

[@gianlucatartaro1335]

The fact that this is Marth vs Sheik makes this even crazier. Zain can make the worst matchups look ridiculously easy lmao

[@meleessb]

Marth Sheik made me quit the game 😂

[@lunarumbreon7699]

You think that gap is huge? Wait til you see how Mang0 feels the gap is between 2 and 3

[@ihatetobait9396]

Zain is built different.

[@danielalv7840]

That song tho

[@maruchan458]

Kinda reminds me of when hax when against Drpp(considered the worst God of the 5) he low percent 3 stocked him 2 times in a matter of seconds. BTW hax wasn't 50th, he was *6th*

[@glendian]

But ngl Hax got fucked

[@micahstuart2395]

Yes every day I wonder what the skill gap is between rank number one and rank number forty six

[@m3z784]

wouldn't let that happen to me personally

[@debeb5148]

You suck at the game 100%. You have never played at a locals either lmfao, you would get washed so hard for years and years if you even tried.

[@Jackaroo.]

Bro it used to be the top 10-6 weren’t close to the top 1-5. Everyone is a lot closer now than how it was in the past.

[@Telcontar86]

I mean, there are levels for sure, and Zain is absolutely, ridiculously good at this game But I'll have to watch the set because Aura looked too scared to do anything but shield in these clips and it was allowing Zain to do stuff that doesn't work. Unless you're really intimidated 😅 Edit - just watched the set. Zain was living rent free in Aura's head. Game 1 was pretty competitive even though Zain was clearly in control (fsmashing Shieks Nair is crazy) I don't know if I've ever seen a high level player miss as many techs as Aura did in game 2, and Zain just smothered him. So yeah, levels

[@SkarmoryMelee]

Whats the music in the background?

[@medea6341]

nah Zain is just the post 2018 goat

[@ZainArtz]

It's really weird seeing people say and type my name since it's so uncommon

[@jasmithyantro9680]

I mean there is a gap but like didn't Zain, the ranked 1 player, lose to Wally, the ranked 60 player like 5 months ago?

[@elshaddollworld3941]

that happens form time to time but at the end of the day if hi is in the zone just the top top players are touching him

[@522wma5]

also worth mentioning that wally got like 3 stitch faces in a row that set

[@jasmithyantro9680]

@@522wma5 And only 2 of the 3 stitich faces actually did something. Like you could say Wally got lucky but it's also on Zain for letting Wally pull so many turnips to increase his likelihood of pulling stitch faces.

[@archangel8444]

Yeah this set was crazy

[@mxcascade]

Now go between top 20 and top 10 with Joshman vs Leffen

[@damana1000]

I played a green Falco on Slippi, and the guy destroyed me. I couldn't do anything. Later, I saw him play Zain's Fox on Twitch, and Zain was making him look like a complete amateur

[@lambmaster27]

Lmao “big dog Zain”

[@atari_hmb]

OMG my coach has told me Ultimate is boring for him to watch because players don't edgeguard and let top players get away with unsafe b.s, which is true. I am an unranked guy who still can take games off any top 20-30 ultimate player. Yet Aura would dismantle 90% of melee players 0-difficulty. So he was right the skill ceiling in melee is RETARDED, almost like Dragonball Z comparing to gods of destruction haha

[@ethann1625]

In melees modern era, who would the 5 gods be?

[@meleessb]

Zain, Mang0, iBDW are all 3 locks, and the other two are fringe / could be argued. I’d say aMSa at the moment (his explosion in performance is a little too new to lock him in as one for me), Jmook (same argument as aMSa), and Hungrybox maybe.

[@petramacneary8152]

Zain would not be number one during the 5 gods reign. He’s supremely talented, but he’s not facing the best of what remains of them.

[@Nako3]

Didnt have to go down to 46. The 2nd place is already a huge gap xD

[@foxcollr831]

1st and second place are actually pretty close :) same for 3rd and 4th, there was a lot of controversy over the rankings. Zain is incredible tho

[@deepnostalgia6036]

Im a smash ultimate player, so maybe i lack some context, but that doesnt look to hard 😂

[@dylanflores7215]

I’ve seen aura play at some of the Washington state regionals. He’s super good and wins them sometimes. Maybe he should have just gone peach idk

[@homelessharry336]

Peach vs Marth is almost impossible tbh

[@TempoTenshi]

He got STOMPED when he switched last set lol. Aura's Peach didn't dent Zain as much as Shiek managed.

[@june4135]

I would simply just not lose as Sheik. I'm just built different.

[@debeb5148]

Never heard of you, chump. You probably never won a locals.

[@LogosLFTG]

Aura been playing sheik for a year LOL

[@kotasake]

Song in background?

[@revolutionofmedicine]

One person isn't 10 people.

[@nevalk196]

Someone knows the name of the song?

[@FTAcatnip]

anyone know the name of that song??

[@AnonYmous-ob7py]

Zain beat a top 25 player with Roy in tournament, which is even more impressive than this dominant performance

[@randomgamer8763]

What's this song called pls

[@lellowranger]

I hope Aura doesn't see this lol

[@I_am_Mon]

I didn't realise i was watching you i thought it was some big KZbinr not someone who's scared to do a Pokemon nuzlocke

[@bbqseitan7106]

Zain was so sheisty lmao

[@lemguins7031]

When did amsa get 2nd spot ^^

[@flexluthor1]

Melee actually looked this bad? Damn 😂

[@_Blinxzy]

I’d wreck em all with bowser

[@StrigWilson]

Why you sound like game theory tho

[@meleessb]

I don't know man I was just born with a voice belonging to Game Theory 2

[@RiotAugust]

lmao isn't aura like one of the best in Oregon??

[@turntech4776]

Ever wondered how big the gap is between the average destiny player and b2k is

[@kingwashington4044]

To me it doesn't matter because melee is a fundamentally a broken game. But people still want to talk about it like it's the best fighting game of all time.

[@kek8726]

To me it doesn't matter because fighting games are fundamentally broken

[@skilledroy2672]

it is the best fighting game of all time lmao

[@HatedAngeI]

Humph, I could beat him

[@jadonplox]

thats the difference between number 1 and 50 in any game or sport lol

[@Rael0505]

I think melee has a higher skill ceiling than most other games

[@josephcarrell]

Nah, mango #1. King just sharing his throne

[@Silverado-pq6xe]

Algo comment

[@jaw2835]

Wally

[@RipleySawzen]

Most of this is all in their head. You could still take a stock off Zain using beginner techniques if you had meta mind games.

[@matrixyst]

taking it back to the old school meta lmfao "yeah your techskill is good... i just think you need to work on your mindgames man" 💀

[@RipleySawzen]

@@matrixyst Yeah, people need to think about that more. Slippi kind of threw it all to the wayside for a while, but a hypothetical Zain without the mindgames would probably lose a game to this guy in a set.

[@sleebyrose]

The Zain Character.

[@sdw-hv5ko]

Aura would destroy people who would destroy people who would destroy people who would destroy people who would destroy most of the audience of this video

[@frankensteinmd4921]

lol they are about the same level. meaningless talent is meaningless all the same regardless of its magnitude.

[@laafeeemin3120]

We all know your zain simp b2k

[@meleessb]

Gonna simp my way into a zain teaching session 🙏

[@N0T1VE_]

Franz coulda won 🥱

[@michaelcontreras2007]

Too big

[@codsocrazy]

Mang0 is number 1. Zain could never. 🤦🏻

[@chrisdrums1910]

has to be bait

[@cameronguitarhero]

bait

[@AzumaRikimaru]

The gap is too large and this is why no one plays the game anymore. Adults have to spend their time working while the top 10 plays all day. Also the rank 1 player uses OEM... Meanwhile we got people who havent place top 10 in a decade trying to mod the game to make it easier for him lmaooooooooo yes you HAX$$ A box users and crying to mod the game ever more so

[@geniegoldroyalty7371]

Ugh no but ok

[@nothanksnate]

Literally wtf are you talking about. Like seriously. This is the most dumbass comment ever.

[@ivannolan]

Fire emblem character winning 🥱

[@be2957]

Who cares melee is for boomers

[@armasapee]

Still got destroyed by jmook. I feel that the top 5 isn't Consistent. Amsa is definitely top 3. Yet Mango and Zain are in a weird spot. Mango got like 97 on genesis. Zain wasn't even top 6 in genesis

[@poordecisionsandworsesolut6397]

He’s literally 5th at genesis

[@AlphaChopstick]

Also mango went doc the whole tournament for some dumb reason

[@522wma5]

zain vs jmook literally went to game 5 lol

[@nahometesfay1112]

​@@AlphaChopstick I thought he switched to doc when he played Taj's mewtwo

[@savageedgelord]

marth and skill don't belong in the same sentence.

[@liberty2087]

This is why melee is deservedly dying

[@BlueGrovyle]

It's not. In fact, it's probably quite a bit bigger now than ever, even though 2018 Evo levels of viewership probably won't be topped soon. The normalization of online play has drastically reduced barrier to entry.

[@nothanksnate]

Dumbass

[@SoullessKuriboh]

No respect for melee Marth players because exactly like the vid it's spam central

[@yScribblezHD]

I can practically taste the salt from here holy, you definitely just got cooked up by a netplay Marth

[@RespectedSpice]

@@yScribblezHD lol if you get to a high lvl you’ll realize that everyone has the core mechs perfected so they resort to cheese moves. Such as a grab and tech chase right after. He isn’t that wrong….

[@AlphaChopstick]

​​@@RespectedSpice tech chasing isn't cheese lmao just do as ISAI says and don't get hit, I main spacies btw

[@RespectedSpice]

@@AlphaChopstick didn't say tech chasing was cheese was saying the GRAB repeat is cheese and the way they get the repeat is by tech chasing

[@JoonTheKim]

Ngl I watched the match and almost nothing zain did connected. It was like 80% fishing and 20% actual combos

[@debeb5148]

Let's this be a message to anyone with a dream, you are not the main character. Do something else with your life, you are wasting your time