Why Is Smash Melee The King Of Platform Fighting Games?

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Why is Super Smash Bros considered to be the best platform fighter of all time?
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0:00 - Intro
1:05 - Sponsor
3:06 - Why Is Smash The King Of Platform Fighters
20:50 - Alternative Platform Fighting Games & Future
24:00 - Outro
#smashbros #gaming #nintendo #esports

[@Akshonesports]

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[@hansolowe19]

Firefox + adblock + noscript. You will never go back. No ads, no intrusive rubbish. For youtube (on android?) there is revanced, no ads. 👍

[@unclefred3128]

I'll never trust a browser that tries to download itself when I'm watching Japanimane for free.

[@TheAnikasis]

Your bowser is holding you back. Level up by picking Fox or Shiek.

[@unclefred3128]

@@TheAnikasis Awww MAAAN! I wish I'd thought of that. It's brilliant!

[@EhPringle]

Opera is worse the Internet explore in terms of privacy do yourself a favour and don't download that trash

[@jimkas3606]

I think the points made about lacking options for casual play hit the mark. It's hard to grow a new player based when you catter to a hardcore audience. Most people don't pick up a game wanting to play it competivly, people play for fun and if they really enjoy the game they make start playing competivly

[@AL-lh2ht]

Good single player mode adds so much value and initial hype for a game. Yet none of them do this

[@ViewtifulJae]

The hardcore smash audience is really appalled and having a hard time accepting that it’s a damn Mario fighting game that was really intended to be for shits n giggles and isn’t having the misguided hardcore audience be catered to I don’t understand. If you wanna play fighting games seriously play with other misguided ppl or play a serious fighting game that caters to you ….. like brawlhalla lol

[@MA-ym8pl]

@@ViewtifulJaebro really used a fucking smash clone as an example 😐 your game is literally based off of the happy accident that this one of a kind game is

[@ViewtifulJae]

@@MA-ym8pl exemplifying exactly what I mean lol. Smash was never intended to be sweaty. Stop comparing other games on their first outings to be as comparable or polished as smash bros. But agai ln there are developers who cater to ppl wanting to play hardcore ….. and brawlhalla is a good example of that. Ppl are creating what you want but you don’t wanna play it cuz it’s not exactly smash even tho it’s actually balanced for competitive????? Make it make sense lol. So what you are telllong me is ppl choose to try and force a dev to make a competitive game …..they don’t do it so another dev steps up and does it….. and you refuse to play it? Because nostalgia? Idk just doesn’t make sense. I like gears of war ….. but you think I’m still playing G5 or G4 even tho the multiplayer got fucked and they won’t improve it? No. I just move to games or devs who step up or actually listen to feedback. These smash players are barking up a tree and getting literally No response to their concerns or wishes . Steve will be top tier forever I’m this upside down world we are in lol And what’s crazy is you “sweat” smash players probably know this and still bang your heads against walls hoping it’ll change or praying to sakurai to lose my which is just never gonna happen otherwise we’d have a “cooler” roster and not all these goofy characters to appeal to younger audiences or the hat have you and it’d have more actuall nintendo all stars

[@skycharts7054]

​@@ViewtifulJaedude took it personally

[@spudsbuchlaw]

If there's one thing Sakurai has made clear, he REALLY knows how to make good animation!

[@Vyz3r]

And sound design. You can feel the weights of each attack in the games.

[@ImmacHn]

​@@Vyz3r For some reason Smash clones never have that "Oomph", and it's weird because it's not something only smash does, it's just that for some reason it's lacking in other platform fighters. Look at "Slap City" for example, game looks super fun, but it still feels like the fighters are not interacting properly with each other.

[@DeadShoot48659]

Good seeing brawlhalla mentioned, that game is absolutely still kicking after years yet never gets the respect in deserves in the fighting game community.

[@milo4885]

You mean he really knows what MAKES a good animation, he didn't make them

[@spudsbuchlaw]

@@milo4885 Yes that's what I mean lol Ive read in Melee interviews he was a very big part of that game's animation design, and he models all the animation himself using action figures!

[@ImmacHn]

The thing is, you want to have a huge pool of casuals to feed into your competitive environment, you're not going to pull someone who has over 10k hours on a game with another similar game that they have zero attachment to, even if your game is technically superior, but you if you can get a lot of casuals to git-gud in your game you can make your own "pro" players.

[@weatherreport3249]

Brawlhalla has done a FANTASTIC job with this issue.

[@AL-lh2ht]

The thing is though basically all of these alt games are mechanically weaker. By a lot.

[@ImmacHn]

@@AL-lh2ht That's where the "even if" statement kicks in. I'm pretty sure that even if a mechanically superior game to melee existed, it would still be extremely hard to pull the hardcore melee players in, because they have so much investment in melee that to them even the random quirks and bugs are features, and because sometimes, the character you play as is as important as the game itself, just look at what happened with MVC4, while I can't attest to whether it's better than MVC3, it did not have the characters to pull it off and just poofed.

[@weatherreport3249]

Brawlhalla is not mechanically bad or weak by any means. It has a very interesting and intricate neutral and advantage/disadvantage state. It's just different.@@AL-lh2ht

[@dialectiks]

Say about Brawl's gameplay what you want, but it has the best single player mode of any Smash title. The Subspace Emissary was legendary, and every few years I rewatch all the cutscenes as a movie haha.

[@dialectiks]

Best art direction too. Everything was just a bit grittier than in the other titles.

[@yggdrasilsaltar]

“the best single player of any smash game” isnt really a hard title to get regardless

[@skunthundler]

@@dialectiks Brawl's art direction is fucking awful lmao. It was a strange choice at the time and it's aged like dogwater.

[@veggie4876]

I hate this argument, I grew up on brawl, it was fun yeah but I can never replay it without project m installed.

[@arkamkage7718]

@@veggie4876project m ex remix?

[@danfelder8062]

They have absolutely patched basketball to nerf too-tall people before. There's been a lot of rule changes in basketball accordingly over the decades.

[@TrueYankeeFan]

Perfect time to plug Core-A-Gaming's channel for top-tier fighting game content

[@AL-lh2ht]

Yea it’s kinda funny because they have changed the rules all the time. All sports change rules that drastically change the meta of the game.

[@muskop42]

i agree but i would also argue that rule changes are not patches. melee has had many rule changes over the years but never any patches. the basketball rule changes affect everyone, whereas patches would alter individual players/characters. the 3 point line massively buffs short players but it doesn’t make them physically stronger

[@DANCERcow]

If I remember correctly, basketball was a white person sport that started off with regular sized people until a tall person was recruited and then the game was changed around that tall person!

[@sipper2136]

One of the reasons additions like new stages hasn't "stuck" is the omnipresent threat of Nintendo. We can truly never know if mods would be popular given the current paradigm.

[@commonviewer2488]

The missing ingredient is always the casual play with this genre. Too many devs skip it.

[@NathAnarchy45]

And yet it's so easy. But they only focus on that competitive side, yet that's not the most important part. Mario kart was never competitive yet it's their most successful game

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

11:55 "You're not gonna patch basketball to put a height limit on centers." I think this is a bad example bc while basketball may not have a height limit, but it certainly has been "patched" over the years. Dribbling legality and 3-point line come to mind. Same is true of other sports. American football and the forward pass. Soccer and goal line tech being integrated. Baseball and mound height or glove size. These are some I can think of off the top of my head, but there are rule changes in all sorts of sports in all sorts of leagues at all sorts of levels EVERY YEAR.

[@yomama5368]

I agree. I think a more effective way to talk about the idea that the video was trying to get at is saying "You can't patch the laws of physics so that wind resistance makes the ball go further than it does now" or something more along those lines. In a videogame, reality itself can be changed because that reality is made up of numbers and code. In real life, we can't do that, so when it comes to sports the way you deal with unconstructive game design is by the people who play and manage the sport coming together to change those rules. In Melee, there have been no patches, so in the same way that physics can't be changed in IRL sports, the players are forced to deal with unconstructive game design by changing the competitive rules that they all willingly sign up for, e.g. banning certain stages, infinite combos, and glitches. In another game, these stages, combos, and glitches might have gotten patched out, but because Melee gets no patches the players themselves all collectively agree that, though it's still technically possible to use them, they will choose not to for the good of the game. This is the kind of thing that has developed the community in the way it has.

[@WarningStrangerDanger]

I think the height example is fine because rule changes absolutely have happened in Melee, but not changes to the characters or their physics. Having completely dropped the in-game sudden death mode and added in stage bans and a whole counter-picking system for competitive play... Things Melee doesn't have or do, but because people preferred to play that way it stuck. In Soccer, they can change the rules to say you can't carry the ball in your teeth, but they cannot change the fact that short people are more agile than tall people, and tall people make the best goalkeepers, etc. If I recall, you can legally carry the ball between your ankles in soccer, do a handstand and throw it like that, but rather than it get "patched out," nobody does it because they'd get kicked or hurt trying. Instead, they do the same startup with grabbing the ball between the ankles and flicking the ball up to do a header. This is a metagame developed in the Melee sense.

[@BlazeArceus777]

Akshon Esports doesn’t do their research on literally anything that would take a simple google search They’re known for this and every video has errors like this because like most esports outlets they’re more concerned with the mythos than being accurate or having any real journalistic integrity That said, I like me a good story and at least they’re good at telling them. I just wish they actually did proper research

[@PandaVsGames]

Even as just a casual fgc fan the crispness and quality of smash just looks so much more pleasing than any other platform fighter. It's like the umvc3 of platform fighters Edit: bingo bongo is my new main

[@theotherjared9824]

The sub-genre has yet to come out of its "doom clone" phase where everything is immediately compared to Smash. There needs to be a goldeneye and halo so the industry can move forward.

[@TempRawr]

Chucking pokeballs at eachother is truly peak competition.

[@Nawakooo0]

The only game that got even close to capturing the heart of Melee was Rivals of Aether. Rivals had depth in every character as much as Melee does, and the mechanics just clicked, but most important of all: it had developer passion. I, and many others, are very excited for Rivals 2

[@Marthyboy88]

Same here. I really REALLY hope it does everything melee players need it to. It's the only game out there that I know of being dev'd by massive melee fans that truly understand what makes melee so great. Completely agree on the character depth etc as well. If it could have more "stuff" for casual players, and then get workshop support again (although it'll be much harder with new gfx etc), that would be a huge boost.

[@jmanfro1]

I honestly think it’s INSANE how even 22 years later the “meta” for melee hasn’t been figured out. We have characters like yoshi , a character that was perceived as one of the bottom tiers winning major events. Even characters like DK, another character who’s was seen as s low tier has been seeing a renounce in the past year or 2.

[@JonathanScarlet]

Rebound or renaissance are the words you were looking for, I believe.

[@grubbinvgm]

How has NO ONE mentioned Slap City? It does everything this vid recommends -- a completely unique experience that's focused mostly on silly, stupid fun, but with really fun movement and deep tech if you want to get competitive. It's not the most popular game, but I think it's carved a significant niche!

[@CocoMura]

RUSHDOWN REVOLT is CRIMINALLY underrated. Playerbase needs some gas.

[@AllStarKingD]

Yeah. I remember 3-4 years back I went to a gaming event and they set up their beta for people to play. I thought it was going to be more successful by now. It’s super unfortunate.

[@CocoMura]

game has outstanding BONES but no players.

[@SkipperWing]

turns out what Meleeheads like about Melee is the Nintendo IP, and not actually the "in depth mechanics." RDR tried to give them the project M experience and Meleeheads said "eh, but we've got Melee."

[@Wave420XX]

so glad to hear about rivals input from this interview. honestly an underrated gem that deserves more attention and is a great alternative platform fighter to smash

[@bandeyawx9709]

I do think that trying to emulate Melee in its entirety is a detriment to growth, but another issue I also see a lot is people interpreting games that *don't* do this as attempts to emulate Melee, and dismissing the game entirely by saying something like "not everything needs to be Melee" or "just play Melee". It serves as a sign of ignorance, where people don't care to acknowledge the original concepts the game *does* try to accomplish while blending in the old options that they took from the Smash series as inspiration. If new entries put more effort in their marketing to highlight their new ideas and gameplay aspects, instead of making "yeah, we have wavedashing! look at how fast it is! this move is a shine! remember shine?" as constant of a headline as it is, people will be more inclined to accept it as something truly unique. Rivals seems to do a good job of this, if I could name one.

[@mostlyharmless11]

Joshman was probably talking about the sound of when fox specifically hits a shine (falco also), because the game adds a lot of bass to the sound when it hits. It really shakes the whole venue when it's amplified

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Joshman nailed it when talking about learning to move. Melee has no buffer system so it just feels weird and hard but the reward to learning scale is just perfect. Meaning you are constantly getting dopamine as you learn to walk, then recover off stage, wavedash, l cancel, jump cancel, etc... Also sound design is massive. NASB is good but the sound design sucks and it ruins it. However if a new platform fighter as good as melee came out, id swap simply to get away from dealing with Nintendo and their constant BS

[@highlin9270]

Try Rivals of Aether sometime.

[@jebril]

Yea its why pros still mess up all the time I'm just like them ofc.

[@AL-lh2ht]

Rivals of aether two is going to be closer mechinally to smash, meaning it could be a great alternative when it comes out.

[@eclipse9727]

Though it's most likely not going to dethrone Smash (But tbh, I don't think it should try to), I do think NASB 2 has enough of a hook with it's rogue-like campaign and MUCH more revised gameplay. Again, still not reaching smash's heights, but it's a LOT better than how NASB 1 was, so I feel cobfident for them.

[@coreenforcer6404]

What's NASB 2 stand for?

[@crumplycashew7095]

@@coreenforcer6404nickelodeon all star brawl 2

[@legoboy7107]

@@coreenforcer6404 "New American Standard Bible 2" XD

[@AL-lh2ht]

I don’t think it’s even a issue about dethroning them, just being good enough where it could survive a long running esports. Which only rivals and brawlhalla managed to do.

[@eclipse9727]

@@AL-lh2ht That's what I meant with my comment. Good enough to stand out.

[@SubliminaIMessages]

Melee was really lightning in a bottle. We're probably never getting another game like it

[@AL-lh2ht]

This is silly. Ultimate is like twice as popular as smash. Platform fighters as a genre can thrive beyond smash.

[@flying7900]

Quick question which ultimate are you referring to

[@kappadarwin9476]

We won't because people have hurt themselves playing the game. Its bad press to have players hurt themselves just to get good at your game.

[@kyscojastar]

As much as Sakurai gets flack from Melee players, he really is a game design genius and a major contributor as to why other platform fighter IPs can't replicate Melee's secret sauce.

[@DANCERcow]

Melees secret sauce as you put it is an exploit and unintended. If they had been given more time and play tested the game, your precious wavedashing "tech" would have been removed

[@gavinwarren9705]

@@DANCERcow I understand the sentiment, but wavedashing was intentional, same as L-Canceling. Also while l-canceling I’m neutral on, wavedashing is a legitimately cool mechanic that I think more people would appreciate if they didn’t associate it with sweaty melee-ers

[@user-be3qc7re9o]

​@gavinwarren9705 No it wasn't. Wavedashing was known back during development, but they couldn't do anything about it as they didn't have the time, on top of the fact that Sakurai didn't think it would be that crucial to Melee's Gameplay. There's a reason why he created Brawl the way he did.

[@KaloKross]

@@DANCERcow if you look at the fact that they made hundreds of small changes they made to the PAL version, and the fact that they even mentioned the wavedashing mechanic, aerial lag reduction and L/R lockout back in 2001 youll see the game was pretty well-tested and obviously they knew how their engine worked lol.

[@TravisOuttaHell]

Ip recognition. That's why in any other platform they describe the character rather than saying the character's name. I still call Rano "The poison frog guy"

[@thadex454]

Nick all stars tried and failed though

[@TravisOuttaHell]

@thadex454 I don't acknowledge the games existence...

[@coopersd100]

Project M is the only game that I would put in the same conversation as Melee for greatest platform fighter. And even then, even if Nintendo hadn't killed it, it lacked a certain je ne sais quoi that Melee has.

[@DANCERcow]

You mean the brawl mod right? The mod that is an over stuffed mess of altered in-game assets? That one?

[@SSJPENGUIN]

​@@DANCERcowI think the blending of Brawl mechanics with Melee/64 features makes up more of the appeal than the extra assets The added assets are just a nice novelty, if anything

[@SSJPENGUIN]

Project M break the targets doubles is one of my all-time favourite modes across any smash games 🔥

[@treehann]

Imagine if Nintendo was a company that embraced modding, that would be the sickest thing ever.

[@austinsroche]

For me, Melee's hit SFX are better. I exclusively play PM for smash games at this point, however, so I think PM is the best. Definitely think Melee's SFX sounds better though.

[@TheSweatSlayer]

This video encapsulates exactly how I've felt about the modern day platform fighter genre for a while. Never really could put my finger on why I and many others always came back to smash at the end of the day but this vid def put my feelings into words, very well made video

[@AL-lh2ht]

I think also legit none of them have truly been amazing. Most of good, but it needs to be amazing.

[@shinobeatz3803]

08:04 i love how they added the sacred combo as a mechanic lol

[@1423big]

Maybe all the other developers of platform fighters should pay more attention to sakurai's youtube channel and see the importance of the conscientious he put into his games.

[@redpandaplush5980]

I feel like it'll be easier for new platform fighters to pull the ultimate players tbh. Consider trying to hook people who are stuck with Steve and Sonic, shitty online, and have played their game for 5 years max vs getting people who have put their blood sweat and tears into running tournaments from their basements since 2001

[@arglebargle5531]

The issue with this idea is that they're not stuck with it at all. If they're playing it for five years it's because they clearly find it rewarding.

[@tntgoboom98]

This may be crazy but after playing melee for so long the only other competitive game that has really hooked me in that way has been rocket league. There is so much complexity while also being such a simple concept

[@cjkmelee]

Rocket League and CSGO is what all my meleehead homies grind

[@cyrus4285]

@@cjkmelee yall should try out TF2, Tf2, or CSS

[@dougtheghoul2845]

Multiversus doesnt need to replace smash bros. Always room for more platform fighters. Just gotta hope the relaunch in a few months is worth the wait. If it's fun and polished, people will play

[@playharderscrub]

It’s crazy how there will be no other platformer like smash even after 15+ years

[@AL-lh2ht]

There are several like melee. There is just none of them are as good.

[@vwtdi1579]

P+

[@remalemadingdong]

subspace emissary could have been a standalone game and it would still be my favorite game of all time

[@OGEdger]

It sounds like first and foremost, ip is important for attracting players. Then, fun casual modes to hold the attention of said players. Finally, good mechanics keep players hooked for a long time. And DO NOT skimp out on the animation, sound design, and art design when making the game. Just try to make a good game from the start and polish the hell out of it as to not have it in a perpetual state of early access/public beta testing.

[@DIce_PPlus]

Surprised there wasn’t a Pm/+ shoutout when discussing trying to innovate with Melee magic

[@alb7466]

Not a fan of how the title implies that the video will be about smash as a whole but then you only talk about melee

[@TheDanielCityHeroes]

Here, I was expecting to hear more calls of "Just STOP making platform fighters altogether! Nothing can ever come close to Smash! This is the ONLY series we need here! The rest are all just dumb clones and rip-offs!" Nice to hear that people aren't just outright dismissive of the non-Smash platform fighters and were willing to at least give them a chance.

[@FlamingZelda3]

SC II is what comes to mind for me. I know the FGC & fighting games in general have gone far beyond anything Soul Calibur 2 ever did, but for a kid growing up in the suburbs in the 00s SCII's story, music, animation, and combo style were amazing. Even without any sort of items or really goofy game modes, my brothers and I had a blast learning new combos, playing footsies, throwing each other off ledges, and trying out wacky character builds. If someone asked me to boot up SCII for a few rounds today I would. I think one of the big advantages games had 20 years ago is the free to play, pre-access, half finished, paid dlc, patches every few weeks game model hadn't been rolled out yet. You went to the store, bought a game, and it was either good or it wasn't. Obviously as the gaming industry has become more indie oriented and less studio based newer developers need direct feedback on their games, but I feel that on the whole the "early access" and "games as a service" models have been hurting the longevity of games.

[@Xfushion2]

The reason is and always will be that Smash at is core is an extremely casual party game that's incredibly easy to pick up and play and has massive brand recognition and I think folk don't think about the later too much. Smash started as a crossover between Nintendo franchises and evolved into a massive videogame industry event it's essentially _Videogames the videogame_ and you can see that in the hype roster reveal trailers caused even back in Brawl. The reason games like Nick brawl or Multiversus don't reach half the hype is because their characters *are not videogame characters* Also doesn't help that the competition usually lacks polish, talking mainly about Nick brawl and Multiversus but those games downright look ugly, animations are stiff, lack "selling" and the sound effects are subpar.

[@kappadarwin9476]

I don't think them being video game characters has much to do with Smash's success. I think its more brand loyalty. Smash bros had 20+ years to cultivate its base. Smash isn't without flaws, I was pretty irked about smash 4 DLC characters not getting custom moves and then seeing the whole custom moves getting removed entirely in Ultimate despite thinking it was a good idea.

[@Xfushion2]

@@kappadarwin9476 The reason Smash even gained notoriety in the first place was because it was a Nintendo crossover game, even Sakurai stated that he decided to use already established Nintendo characters instead of creating original ones because that would pull a bigger audience, and he was 100% correct. Again, look at how people are hyped up when a new character makes it in Smash. I have yet to see a reaction of that magnitude for Multiversus or Nick Brawl. Also don't get how custom moves factor in. The reason they removed them was because people barely used them.

[@kappadarwin9476]

​@@Xfushion2 Smash bros gained notoriety because of it having decades to cultivate its fanbase and the fact that when it first came out not many people have heard of such a battle system before so it set the standard. Custom moves offered variety to character play styles but was poorly implemented because the DLCs didn't have any which shows a lack of a finished product. While I do enjoy Smash I think it should take notes from Multiverse and NASB. Mainly in interactions between characters outside their respective franchises and a slime meter like mechanic to balance out the roster. Because if it doesn't its going to feel rather empty. Sonic and Mario have interacted in crossover games you would think there would be some interaction between them.

[@Xfushion2]

@@kappadarwin9476 Smash became a staple series when Melee hitted the scene, that was 2001, just 2 years apart from the original game, don't give me that Smash "took decades to gain notoriety" Meanwhile the games you mentioned play and look worse than Melee. Sorry but Smash doesn't need to take note of two games that can't even match the gamefeel and polish of a 23 year old game.

[@writinggoose6059]

I agree that Platform Fighters need more content for "casual" players, but I think focusing on stages and items is falling for the same trap of "recreating Melee," only from the party game side. Why should I pick a game with 20 items, 10 stages and a few songs when Ultimate is right there with over 100 items, stages and iconic songs spanning from multiple games? The workload needed on the dev side to even match Ultimate's content would exclude everyone but the largest companies. If SF6 has taught me anything, its that "casual" does not mean "uninvested." We blanket those outside the competitive side of a fighting game under the term "casual," but the truth is they're are many different types of video game player; pvp is just one of many ways a player engages with a game. SF6 had a character creator for people who like making their OCs in games, extended backstory and interactions with the playable roster - for the people who actually into Street Fighter lore - and an online battle mode that encouraged you to grind your created character like an mmo. Now granted, expecting small teams to compete with Capcom isn't a reasonable ask either, but I think the takeaway is that any team making a platform fighter (or any competitive game for that matter) should be asking what other type of player can their game appeal to. With that framework in mind, I disagree with the notion that Rivals of Aether's Workshop mode "doesn't count" as a core part of RoA's "casual" appeal. Think about how broad the appeal a custom character creator introduces: for players, there is near infinite amount of new content to try. For creatives, there is a whole new avenue of creative expression: make your own in-universe RoA character, your OCs, or your favorite FG character in a platform fighter. Rivals Workshop was the best side mode I have ever seen an Indie Platform Fighter introduce. An honorable mention goes to Slap City's Adventure Mode

[@boogsss2]

Way to many words

[@writinggoose6059]

@boogsss2 Can't stop me nerd

[@EduSolsa]

Smash is in another level. I played all, except for Melee, and love the series. Sure, played others games, like Rivals of Aether (looking forward for Rivals 2), Jump Ultimate Stars (it should have a new game) and want to try NASB 2, but none of them is more appealing than just pick Smash again and playd a quick match online.

[@zechonMod]

ngl, this video should just be , why melee is king? since you dont talk about why smash is king: content. just feels like melee propaganda than smash bros as a whole. Edit: Wow, they edited the title to make it more sense.

[@juanrodriguez9971]

Too much melee focus rather than focusing on why the series only has 1 (arguably 2) games nobody cares go back to, I get the point because literally all platform fighters except for multiverse are inspired by melee's competitive, but come on the whole series is amazing, even the worse smash is better than the best platform fighter

[@MasterHandSpazz]

I feel like Slap City goes unseen in most aspects of platform fighter conversions

[@Meepalasheep]

slap city owns

[@MasterHandSpazz]

@Meepalasheep I like how it has its own sense of charm, Is down right hilarious, And you don't instantly think "Melee clone" or Smash adjacent. I think I've only seen armada's deep dive into it

[@Weebfox]

Not only is it the strong IPs, but without a doubt to me it's the *feel* of Smash. Multiversus, Nick AllStar, Rivals, so many games that have cool characters but none of them to me come even close to the feel of smash. It just plays so smooth, and everything else feels janky in their movement. I cant really explain it well, but Smash just feels smoother compared to any other platform fighter I have tried (Rivals still slaps though, and the mods are god tier)

[@DANCERcow]

It's all about the animations, hit stop, attack, idle and knock back animations! Just look at all of Smash as a series and even Smash Bros 64 compared to how nicktoons and multiversus is animated! Also watch the video of Sakurai talking about animations!

[@juanrodriguez9971]

The ad at 10:28 made me think Jhon Wick was added to Tekken lmao

[@kingrhoam93]

Melee is undoubtedly the best competitive game ever made. No other game has the staying power of melee. I suck at competitive smash, but absolutely love to watch it at high level. I've mained Falcon in every smash game, and never had landing a knee felt as good as in melee.

[@Tmathh]

11:56 they patch basektball more often then you think. they have new rules and regulations added every fews years sometimes they are drastic too like moving the 3 point line back or changing what is and what is not a foul

[@JoJoboiWav]

You should defo talk about the masterpiece of a competitive game that is Omega Strikers, if you never did before. It's deadass one of the best games of the year but sadly nobody's talking about it on KZbin and that led to game to threaten its company's live atm. It really got everything : it's the most original game that came out these last years, the game's anime art direction looks insane, the level of commitment and implication of the dev team is something I've never seen before and the soundtrack is straight up incredible. Now the game ain't the perfect but I think one of the best way to prevent this game from closure would be first to talk about it. I hope more esport content creators will get to talk about the game

[@88facz]

An adequate budget, good game feel anime platform fighter is the only thing I can see really giving smash a run for its money. Specially if it's not tethered to the Jump franchise, but rather all anime and manga. We could have Ichigo fighting Guts from berserk, but also doraemon and astroboy fighting Thorfinn

[@AL-lh2ht]

That already exists. Seriously look it up there is like two separate game series with all the anime characters.

[@88facz]

@@AL-lh2ht there's battle stadium DON which is only One Piece, Naruto and DBZ for the ps2, and also jump ultimate stars that's the shonen jump guys for like the nintendo dS? That's bullshit, the game I'm talking about needs to be constantly expanded with endless new characters either by releasing new versions or by updating the same game. And in the current gen

[@thadex454]

Nintendo will never give Smash players money

[@88facz]

@@thadex454 the anime platform fighter wouldn't be a nintendo exclusive game

[@KonaKonaKaabisteru]

M.U.G.E.N but for anime with platform fighter engine, lol

[@Zwork101]

Multiversus is gone right now, but that's a fighting game I felt was super approachable. Great for new players, while clearly having a high skill ceiling.

[@Vizorfam]

I love smash and play it still sometimes!

[@d-tergent7899]

Since Fraymakers just released Fishbunjin, I think that game does need better sound design for hits, most hits feel flat, which contrasts Fishbunjins unique sounds when hitting sweetspots on his moves (which is taken right from Slap City) and feel way better. Honestly the sound design is a very important part of a lot of games, not just platform fighters, that goes overlooked a lot

[@extonjonas6820]

I think a big factor is that that smash is a gaming roster. It is so cool to see characters like Mario, Kirby, inkling or even Steve feel like they are plucked out of their game is really cool. Bugs Bunny and SpongeBob are cool and iconic but their random stuff is not as satisfying as play with actual video games characters. Then you have characters like shaggy, who has so little going for him as a fighting game concept that he is literally a meme like he is in some fan game. Second, smash feels official. It feels like it was made with love. Nick all stars feels souless and despite the polish of WBs game, having what feels like a near infinite roster of characters from a giant conglomerate could not feel more like I am playing an advertisement. I am sure there were some developers that put their heart into that game but that is going to be hard to convey

[@Nightlizard1564]

Soo yall realize that the sequel for nick all stars brawl 2 pretty much fixes a ton of issues of the first game right and is pretty much fun and a lot more fluid along with having a lot more offline options and crossplay as well.

[@extonjonas6820]

@@Nightlizard1564 glad to hear it

[@thadex454]

so true

[@kappadarwin9476]

I don't really understand what you mean by NASB being souless and Multiverse feeling like an advertisement when Smash does the same thing if not worst. There is hardly any character interaction in Smash. If it wasn't for Palutena's guidance and Snake's Codex the game would feel more like an advertisement than Multiverse or NASB. The point of a crossover is to have interactions between different franchises and I think Smash really needs to work on that aspect.

[@danytalksmusic]

I think Rivals is the best balance of mechanics in terms of depth vs accessibility. You can learn it in 5 minutes but it takes years to master.

[@riffz6065]

There's certain games that hit a sweet spot in terms of easy to learn/hard to master. Melee, Rocket League, Chess, Mordhau etc. those are the games that always have the die hard communities that stand by their game.

[@deadfr0g]

*First-mover advantage* - Wikipedia Reality is obviously more complicated than just this one single factor, but also, though… Am I wrong?

[@2N3mo001]

Definitely the sounds and the speed. Sliding around at the speed of sound, watching characters be slapped around with random, dumb shit, and execute that satisfying kill move with a nice, meaty, thump or smack (knee or sheik fair).

[@kalarse]

11:55 funily enough, that happened in south america in the 90s, a country organized a tournament where the height limit was 195cm, and they didn't win XD

[@ForgedCalamity]

I stan coin launcher.

[@Solharath]

16:56 Project M jumpscare. It really is a shame that this video really turns a blind eye to it, because all these smashers and the voice over are talking around its existence, refusing the elephant in the room, even when bashing Nintendo- they still fear it.

[@NathAnarchy45]

I honestly think the problem is a lot of people grew up with melee so they are attached to it and couldn't get into brawl or others

[@Mario1080p]

title should instead be called "Why Melee* is King" . I think there's more mention to Nasb than any mention of Ultimate, or any other smash game besides Melee.

[@Mario1080p]

Thanks for the title edit. Good presentation on the video regardless if it pertained to a particular version of Smash rather than as a whole.

[@SkipperWing]

Y'all need to get out of your bubble, and talk to analysts outside the Smash community, not just Meleeheads or peeps who grew up with Melee. Smash is considered the best platform fighter (in general, not just cuz of the melee community) because it has recognizable video game characters (which the smaller-but-tighter games don't have) fighting other video game characters in a mechanics framework that just works better (which the bigger-but-looser games don't have) than all the other alternatives. Yeah, the game still needs to be good, but the bulk of money and recognition isn't about how technical the game is. Its about having your favorite characters fight each other in one of the simplest control schemes in fighting games. That's why Smash can drop everything Meleeheads love about Melee (wave dashing, L-canceling, etc etc) and still sell better and better with each game consecutively. It's King DESPITE the pro community, not BECAUSE of it. That's how Smash can have a scandal like the 2020 sex abuse thing, and not lose any momentum. Because no one outside the smash community had even heard about it. That's how small the community is vs how popular the games are with casuals. As is, this vid is mostly waxing lyrical without actually getting to the point, because Smash isn't (and never has been) just Melee. And you're not going to get the actual answer without considering that maybe the pro/Melee community is a niche that is best ignored if you actually want to compete with Smash, and not just cater to people who would rather keep getting whacked by Nintendo than do anything else.

[@Wildstag]

I love when people reveal how British they are by using the phrase "streets ahead" and other idioms casually.

[@ZHibiki]

Look we get it you like melee but you can't just neglect ultimate like that

[@Micha-Hil]

>Why Smash is King Because it's Smash. So many other franchises have tried to take Nintendo's mantle, but they've all failed. It's not because their gameplay is bad. It's not because their graphics aren't good. Not because of its story mode or singleplayer content. Not even the netcode. Nintendo is just such a large company, to the point where the "too big to fail" mindset comes into play *literally everywhere.* They could ban everyone from playing games they haven't been selling for longer than 1 year, and no one would care. Smash is just such a ridiculously large game with so many characters and a massive company backing it to the point where even if it sucks, people will buy it. That's the Nintendo mindset. The closest I've seen someone get to Nintendo's throne in the platform fighter department is Rivals of Aether, and even that was solely because of workshop content, something that Nintendo could never do.

[@zazenbo]

no one i know is interested in casual/simple fighting games. The more mechanically dense, the more folks are going to play. That’s why people love Melee, even if they started on Smash 4, or Ult. As far as single player stuff goes… idk. I don’t really engage with that stuff, I’m just interested in playing against other people in fighting games, and learning match-ups and mechanics. It’s rewarding

[@zazenbo]

one game I enjoy playing casually that has a nice skill ceiling, though it’s not Melee, is Rivals of Aether. Rivals is sick

[@diego4lonso]

Amazing video, loved the format

[@pauldaulby260]

Early rushrev for all its flaws was my favorite fighting game of all time, its such shame that it fumbled so much

[@DoubleL11862]

I think it would have been a more interesting conversation if you included pros from other platform fighters. If you only ask Melee players which game is the best, they're obviously going to say Melee.

[@RandomDude647]

yeah like wtf man. akshon barely did any research on the alternative games

[@SSJPENGUIN]

Hahaha I love melee but yeah this is essentially ‘why melee players love melee’ rather than why Melee's number 1

[@KaloKross]

they have before, you get top level players like sandstorm talking about how melee is too clunky to control i guess because you cant mash airdodge after every input like you do in every other smash game and brawlhalla mv and others

[@1wayroad935]

I'm actually really curious about what the current player count of Ultimate is now? I've never really heard much about the game after the final character reveal.

[@utjason35]

It’s still very popular it’s just that the meta is all over the place with the dlc and stuff

[@eegernades]

Minecraft Steve is a menace and broken to hell

[@SadFace229]

Super Smash Con 2023 had 2600+ registered attendees for Ultimate, probably the biggest Ultimate tournament yet. And this weekend, Port Priority 8 which is a premiere tier tournament due to all the top 10 players in the world attending in addition to so many other top 50/100 players from across the world.

[@nathanaellazaro3347]

Ultimate is actually doing better than melee when it comes to the number of entrants and viewership. People in the melee scene just have a bad habit of acting like they are above the Ultimate side of the community. The opposite also occurs but on a smaller less frequent basis. It just comes off like the melee side of the community has a constant chip on their shoulder about making themselves look better.

[@lordmango6060]

Melee is amazing--watching it is such a treat. Some things could be improved though. Some unnecessary technical barriers like L-cancelling could be removed and that would make things so much better

[@WatameNo1Fan]

I’d disagree. Learning to L-Cancel is a fundamental skill, and makes getting good at the game far more satisfying. Removing L-cancelling just removes a fundamental part of getting good at the game, a skill that every player should learn just as much as any other.

[@lordmango6060]

@@WatameNo1Fan the problem with L-cancelling specifically is that it's complexity for complexity's sake. There is quite literally _never_ a time when a player wouldn't want to L-cancel, it is something that _always_ should be done. Things like wave-dashing are better because that is a fundamental skill that serves a clear purpose and a player can choose to do/not do it _depending on the situation_ . L-cancelling does not have that depth, it's literally just an unnecessary barrier

[@yungmuney5903]

​@@WatameNo1Fan L-cancel is literally nothing more than a tech barrier, it adds nothing but difficulty. What 'fundumental part' are you talking about?

[@kkletsplay_]

The other platform fighters are getting better and unique. Keep going devs. Rivals 2 looks FIRE. We should support these games to grow this genre. I love melee but its been 20 years and this genre is still small? cmon now, theres so much room here. I dont see any of theses a threat to melee neither, I see it as a genre growth imo.

[@liquidsnake23]

i mean basketball and football have had patches lol just not as often and balancing games is always tricky especially fighters imo.

[@savaget2058]

I think it really is a mix of the subtle/and not so subtle animation effects, the sound effects and soundtracks and the way the game just feels. The feedback you get when hitting someone or being hit. It's really hard to describe, but most other platform fighters lack it. The movement in SSBM feels amazing and responsive as well, but I feel like that is easier to replicate. I think in regards to the feedback that the player gets from interacting, this is found in other traditional fighters and even beat em' ups. Sakurai's love for fighting games really shines through in this regard because he was sure to make a "digital" hit feel tangible to the player. I think that's the major thing other devs lack because they are trying to mimic or replicate Super Smash Bros. whereas Sakurai was trying to mimic traditional fighting games and revolutionize them.

[@kylespevak6781]

10:50 He says that like patches are universally bad. Patches can also fix things like brawl metal knight

[@fatyoshi696]

at this point melee players have become so ingrained in their ways that I don't think anything could ever topple the game, the majority of melee players will stick with their game no matter how good any future games are. I'm a massive rivals fan but many of the people that have bounced off the game or not even tried it criticize the differences it has compared to smash (the lack of grabs and shields, the complicated walljump mechanics, the smaller roster, the pixel art artstyle) but if it was the same as smash why would you ever play it? This is part of why I'm skeptical about rivals 2, I feel they're making the game too similar to melee to the point many people would rather just play melee, the number 1 selling point for rivals has always been really mechanically good character designs but for the general public mechanically interesting characters just can't compete against the titanic IPs smash wields.

[@jebril]

I played Rivals for a good bit but yea it felt like the community was small and super hardcore, the character roster was also small and then you have to further invest into DLC characters which I don't honestly like in these type of games, costumes is one thing but when a game comes out the roster should be completed.

[@fatyoshi696]

@@jebril there's no paid dlc characters anymore though, there used to be dlc characters but they've been made part of the base game, and they've even added four more free dlc characters with the workshop pack

[@yungmuney5903]

Facts. Melee players are such a total lost cause of an audience.

[@akajesustsuki]

good thing you updated the title with (melee).....needed the clarification thanks.

[@Akshonesports]

No problem 👍

[@xx_ggplot2_xx]

You can tell the editor is a Jmook fan I love it

[@birdstwin1186]

Smash cant be dethroned for the same reason all the souls like games cant dethrone FROM software souls games.

[@pkakira88]

Basketball is such a bad example, basketball experiences rule changes both in the game and in the surrounding leagues that play it the effect how the game is played.

[@moldyshishkabob]

Melee is sick and all and I love this almost mini-documentary of a video... But man, that Chibi-Robo BGM slaps

[@noirlavender6409]

I was attending some locals on smash ultimate until they released steve who's infuriating to play against, he can just put a wall and force you to approach while making obnoxious noises and charging his filthy win condition, he can do stuff so easily it isnt' even funny and do stuff no other character can like negating about half of the cast's recovery with a block on ledge or resetting his own ledge invincibility. With the limited tech and movement in smash ultimate contesting that is extremely difficult

[@DeanPelton98]

22:35 Akshon! Stop trying to make “streets ahead” happen. It won’t. What does it even mean?!

[@JAxz5]

King of controversies

[@juanrodriguez9971]

People look at the success of Melee and how people keeps going back but ignore why people can still go back to Brawl and Smash 3DS but not to Smash Wii U, and that's because they forget the time when they were newbies to their games and played with everything, not only 1v1. Also, the crossover is so unnecessary, like yeah I loved playing as Kirby and Link but "those guys Samus and Olimar sure are fun to play too", and I guess that's the reason why I really liked Rivals of Aether and Flash Party, despite being original characters they are just as lovable and fun to play, thing I can't say about Multiversus roster.

[@sirvilhelm3569]

Bring back PlayStation All Stars! So many memories with that game, especially online with my bro

[@Atlas-nf2gw]

Watched the video wanting to see what Smash pros from across the franchise had to say about the competition to get a wide view on perceptions and opinions. Got only what Melee players think instead. Should've expected it based on this channel's content but seems massively shortsighted to only ask part of the community and feels extremely click-baity to upload it as "Why Smash is King". At least use a Melee Mario render for the thumbnail next time lmao Edit: Video title changed. Thank god.

[@rainbootzz]

When I noticed it was just melee players talking about melee, I was pretty disappointed as well. There's way more to smash bros than just tournament level melee. When they were talking about the sound design and vfx I was just thinking that that was the perfect time to bring up smash 64 and smash ultimate. Also, since they all talked about melee, they didn't get a chance to talk about one of the biggest parts of smash: character reveals. The entire video felt like missed opportunities. Even then the video was still decent though lol.

[@Nightlizard1564]

Thank you for pointing this out. They made some good points but it just seems like they won’t even bother giving other games a chance. Like the new nick all stars brawl 2 from what I’ve played is a massive improvement from the first game is genuinely fun and it’s sad these “pro players” just cling on to melee.

[@Atlas-nf2gw]

@@Nightlizard1564 I get why they stay with Melee. It has basically all the things those players want and is essentially their comfort food of choice at this stage. I wouldn't expect them to give that up unless they really wanted to. But, to insert an ill-fitting food metaphor, you also wouldn't make a video on why people might avoid a variety of cuisines in favor of their comfort food and ONLY interview people that eat pizza six nights a week. Like, at least talk about the people who eat mac and cheese or fried chicken as well like what?

[@jrs2392]

@@Nightlizard1564a lot of them do play the other platform fighter games, extensively even. they just come back to melee. i can’t really describe why melee feels a lot better and much more engaging than other platform fighters. i’ve tried ultimate and i liked it, but even if ultimate had amazing online play, i’d still prefer melee. and i’m not sure why you said “pro players,” they really are pros, in every sense of the word, with regard to melee. i don’t think it’s sad that they “cling” to melee. it’s imo the best platform fighter game of all time

[@TheBoneHeadClan]

I came here just to find out about other platform fighters and I'm upset there's no list in the description.

[@vanillafella4893]

at 4 minutes when hes talking about the feeling of hitting a knee with the camera and screen shake why did you zoom in in a way that makes marth not visible and disable screen shake

[@Sugar3Glider]

When is your NASB2 review coming out?

[@lordtraxroy]

casual first then let this game slowly grow competitive by the people also the casual aspect or overall the game should be replayable

[@iliakatster]

Im sad rivals 2 is trying to be more like smash, when the lack of shielding and ledge made rivals this utterly unique, hyper-aggressive and hyper-mobile game thats utterly unique.

[@waffles7z]

is it tho (yes the answer is yes but pretend I haven't written these parentheses)

[@hasmhas]

I can appreciate how far and how technical melee players have taken the game, but man does it feel clunky as hell to play. Edit:spelling

[@treehann]

It’s an acquired taste. Not super accessible but once you have it down, it’s technically the most responsive one

[@vwtdi1579]

P+ fixes that

[@Surge_N_Destroy]

Bingo bongo the crocodile section was way too good.

[@thomaswhite8251]

that bingo bongo skit broke me

[@mattgibson9337]

Im so glad the video titled "smash is king" only focused on melee

[@thadex454]

Rivals of Aether 2 will be the one

[@UsingGorillaLogic]

I think the correct goal is to find a niche. For me, Rivals found a niche that I like so that is the game I play, and I think Nickelodeon Allstars Brawl 2 is doing something similar so I hope they do well too. I could easily see (unfortunately) Rivals essentially being the Skullgirls of the alternate smash games where there is just it... and like Brawlhalla I guess but that game is weird everyone is basically jigglypuff to each their own but I am not interested.

[@RiftBrawl]

as a brawlhalla player, after learning the mechanics, its a fast paced game about predicting dodges and punishing whiffs. you have to learn combos and strings and dodge reads for those combos and strings and how to space yourself away from each weapon. for beginners, the high jumps can make it seem very floaty, but that isnt the essence of the gameplay (also fast fall) have a good day (also sorry if this came off as hostile)

[@UsingGorillaLogic]

@@RiftBrawl It didn't come off as hostile I did like learning a bit from this. I guess I should try it again at some point.