How Bomb & Gouge Broke Golf | The Game Plan | Golf Digest

[@aaajjworm]

he's scary accurate AND outdrives everybody. His game around the greens is phenomenal too. He's not just a one trick pony. The man has skills to go with his muscles!

[@yepdontcarebud]

I mean you don't shoot 58 EVER unless you're an absolute machine lol

[@johnunderwood8050]

its all in the bear car with the little red wheels as yoshi

[@FairwayNavigator]

He hits fairways 50% of the time. That both PGA and LIV stats. Thats not scary accurate. He just hits it long enough that he takes a lot less club to get out of trouble and to the green which makes the game a little easier for him. If we’re being honest, he’d be 20+ percentage points behind the 10th most accurate driver on tour right now who’s at 74%.

[@expansioniskeyrn]

@@yepdontcarebudOld man Furyk is complete opposite & did it 1st. 😑

[@tonysmario817]

'scary accurate'? he's the only professional golfer in history to miss so many fairways and win us opens. i guess you see no connection to the idea that if he doesn't have wedges to every green he doesn't score?

[@jaywood9415]

Bryson has distance and accuracy. And if you watch his youtube, he is one of the best people in golf. he is advancing the game tremendously.

[@golfingfishermansurfer]

The glazingg

[@jaywood9415]

@@golfingfishermansurfer is it though? dude is outstanding. plays weird off brand equipment. one lengths, weird math based putting calculations. name one other golfer doing any of that at his level

[@steviechampagne]

@@golfingfishermansurferhe’s right bro

[@dtlocke]

Summary: trading a few shots in the rough for more distance is a good deal (this is the decision the pros face). But trading a few shots out of play for more distance, is a bad deal (this is the decision recreational golfers face).

[@tylerbrown4483]

Yeah. In my own game I shoot my best scores by limiting myself to the shots I know I can keep in play and out of the bunker. I’ve broke 90 never pulling a club longer than a 6 iron. If I’m not practiced up I struggle the most with the longer clubs. A 400 yd par 4 with the short club strategy might go 6i to 250, 6i to 100, PW onto the green, and 2 putt for bogey. Meanwhile a more traditional approach might go driver into the trees, punch out with a wedge to 200, 3h to the bunker next to the green, SW out of the bunker, and 2 putt for double. Now when I’m swinging my long clubs well, which is usually a direct function of how much I’ve been hitting the range, if I can keep the driver in play it gets a lot easier. I carry my driver about 240, so I can usually be on or close enough for a shot at an up and down in 2 as long as I keep it in play. So if the long clubs are working, I’m playing for par on most holes and shooting something like 82-84. If the long clubs aren’t working I’m playing for bogey on most holes and shooting something like 90-92. If I’m stubborn and try to force it when my long clubs aren’t working I’m playing for par but shooting closer to 100 😂

[@tv19463]

Bingo. Tee shot strategy is hit the farthest you can while not going OB. Hitting fairways is overrated. Amateurs lose most strokes off the tee

[@evandh1989]

I think it’s misleading to use the phrase “less accurate” when comparing longer/shorter hitters. Sure, longer hitters miss more fairways. But that’s not because they’re “less accurate” (indeed, their launch conditions and dispersion are just as tight as, if not tighter than, shorter hitters’). It’s because their ball simply runs out of room and/or travels farther on an off line.

[@brandonhockey3076]

That is so true.

[@awill3454]

That’s not the whole story. If the club face is open or shut just a degree or two, it will exaggerate the miss.

[@JustusSeiber]

Correct. Angular dispersion can be exactly the same for a golfer than carries it 280, and a guy who carries it 320, and the guy hitting it 320 will have a wider shot pattern. Same reason a free throw is an easier shot than a 3 pointer. Because the ball is traveling a shorter distance, the angular accuracy doesn’t have to be as exacting. Or if you had to shoot a target at 400 yards with a rifle, you be far less accurate than what you’d be at 100. But old heads in golf tend to ignore this. However, every degree of face angle is more punishing for faster players, and bad strikes thrown in the mix, those misses can actually come out worse due to the speed. Bryson talks about this too. The roll and bulge of modern driver heads isn’t very helpful for golfers 190+ ball speed. That’s why he switched to the crank driver. I think it’s a flatter face or something. Or maybe it’s MORE bulged. I can’t remember. But . His toe and heel strikes are straighter.

[@tonysmario817]

gone are the ben hogans, gary players, and lee trevinos...gone are the pure ball strikers and shot makers. gone is the real competition. professional golf today is a limited hangout 'long drive contest' competition under the pretense of a golf tournament. @@JustusSeiber

[@tonysmario817]

just ask yourself if bryson could score with a wound ball and a persimmon wood? not with that swing designed for tech assisted drives that miss the sweet spot but are swung 1000 mph. just check the statistics...if they don't hit wedges, they don't score...if they don't make second putt birdies on par 5's, they don't score. if they had to hit drivers 'dead balls accurate' every hole...THEY DON'T SCORE!! why is that so hard to see or accept? @@JustusSeiber

[@Golfzilla5000]

The strategy of "bombing and gouging" all by itself has been around forever. You can go over 100 years ago and hear names like Ted Ray and how he utterly dominated others with his distance (but the rest of his game didn't always follow). The difference now is that modern technology has brought the bombing and gouging technique to a broader base of golfers. I can't believe that the majority of guys on tour today would be able to swing it as hard with a tinier sweet spot that ALSO penalizes you so dramatically when you miss it. It's not a coincidence that Jack, Tiger, Sam Snead, Palmer, etc. dominated in their eras while others couldn't match them in the distance department. They obviously had powerful repeatable swings. I would absolutely LOVE to see what the tour would look like if they brought back persimmon woods, and made them a traditional size. You'd still have some guys hitting it further than most of the others (and that would be your Tiger/ Jack types, and they would be superstars because of it), but probably half the field would be eliminated because they couldn't keep a ball on the planet. And likely others would be elevated due to their precision, even though they're a little short in the tee ball department.

[@lostalone9320]

I love that Bryson's approach to any problem is to try doing something differently to everyone else. That's incredibly beneficial for golf as a whole. Perhaps not everyone wants to play like Bryson every single shot, but being able to play like that, and discerningly play that style when the course favours it, that's great for your game. And practising a wider variety of shots and using different types and styles of club gets you better prepared to face unknown situations.

[@baseballehs3]

I’ll give the speaker credit in actually acknowledging strokes gained approach, many golf publications will push speed but fail to mention the great importance of approach play which separates the higher level players.

[@jimiverson3085]

The illustration also shows what happened at Winged Foot - course setup strongly favored bombing. When a fairway is uniformly narrow, which they were at Winged Foot, there is no advantage to not whaling away. The shorter shot is about as likely to end up in the rough. Once in the rough, the player who can use a more lofted club has a serious advantage, especially with "US Open" rough.. Setting up with wider fairways that get progressively narrower closer to the green would even up some of the advantage of distance.

[@tonysmario817]

the pga has been manipulating golf courses to favor the long drive contest golfer since becoming shill for the novelty golf equipment industry in the 90's

[@widdershinss2085]

Maybe something else to think about too is how (professional) golf courses have become more and more maintained over the years. Hazards have become better managed. Bunkers are kept to pretty tight regulations now and even the rough grass still has to be cut to an exacting length. Twenty or thirty years ago, this wasn't as prevalent and you were penalized a lot more if you didn't make the fairway. Another thing is that golf club and ball technology have advanced so much even in the past 10 years. For example clubs have gotten so much more forgiving; even if you make bad contact, the ball is still going to go a significant distance down the fairway. Then even in the event the ball lands in some rough terrain, there is a plethora of hybrid golf clubs and wedges you can use to get yourself out of a jam. With all this, players don't need to be as pin-point accurate off the tee box and can really focus on getting the ball as close to the hole as possible.

[@jakelong3466]

I’m not the biggest fan of Bryson but I certainly appreciate him trying new things in a world where folks are fairly risk averse.

[@jimiverson3085]

But he has had to back off that play because his body couldn't take it.

[@retrorampage484]

Check out his youtube channel. It changed my opinion. His love of the game and his dedication are quite endearing.

[@atfinthehouse8631]

Bryson just has found a way to enjoy the game. Even if he is not at his best for every round and every tournament.

[@AB-nv7bz]

Bryson is one of the most consistent golfers out there. Face to path dictates curve. Same face to path but with more speed make the ball curve more

[@Trizzer89]

In Disc golf, it is very similar. Everybody who wins has crazy distance. Putting is huge, but one of the 10 bombers will have a good putting day. Therefore, only people with power can win except in crazy circumstances where people putt unreasonably well

[@jimralston4789]

Bryson is in my top 3 picks for Pinehurst. He's gonna have such an advantage shooting shorter irons onto those crazy greens.

[@hosoiarchives4858]

You picked it

[@OrvinReyes]

5:57 😂😂😂 you should start with this

[@PatMcCarthy420]

I still use an old laminate Cobra Baffler 5 wood and it’s my favorite club. It feels so pure and I hit it 220-230 yards consistently.

[@adambitner4690]

I’ve always been a longer hitter, and as such I’ve always been confident with a driver in hand. Since I had pretty good distance I’d hit it more often because it was fun, and I became pretty good at a driver in a hand. Now as a golfer I notice I almost always score better when I’m hitting my driver on tee shots. I’ve always found (for me at least) is that although my errant tee shots with a driver go farther off line, whenever I try to ply it safe and take a 4 iron instead, I have errant shots more often, just because I’m more confident with a driver in hand.

[@JK-vc7ie]

Rewrite that and make it more concise and I’ll take another look.

[@joeydayton8116]

It’s only better to be longer, if you can find it.

[@Brewskie86]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I often am. I haven't watched the whole video but I'm already thinking about the the usga and them relentlessly wanting to attack distance. Roll back the ball distance, move tees back, lower moi limit, etc. This may be a stupid question, but wouldn't a better solution be to just let the rough grow even longer to more effectively penalize players that are there more often? It seems to me that this would be pretty effective. Thoughts?

[@Brewskie86]

I mean if you're 20 yards closer, but in a foot of rough where you basically have to punch out to the fairway or risk severely mishitting a full shot, what benefit would that provide? Sure it would also penalize the shorter hitters, but they'd be there less often.

[@johannesgutenberg5993]

Im of the mind that just crushing the ball as far as humanly possible, accuracy be damned, should be punished more by course conditions/setup.

[@scaffscazz8497]

exactly.

[@jimiverson3085]

Which the USGA did not do at Winged Foot.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

It doesn't really matter as the video explains

[@erictien9117]

The comment should be, distance in play (with a shot at the green) that is king

[@Bubbab12]

I’m curious why should you if they are gonna have the roll back rule? Idk if they change it yet

[@tblev97]

They did change it, but it doesn't go into effect for a few years. But either way, 90% of 320 is more than 90% of 290 so I don't think it'll change strategy much, maybe just raise scores a bit

[@jev5117]

Happy Gilmore knew this way back in 1996

[@ChandraMouliPalit-hv1uz]

Wasn't tiger the OG bomb and gouge player?

[@yepdontcarebud]

Nope, but he was the posterboy of it for his time

[@the808life]

Lol..ok!

[@macksgarage1291]

Love the video but the camera shutter noise drove me crazy

[@hosoiarchives4858]

It worked last week

[@LordVerdo]

I got the distance but man the short game is the hardest!

[@trevenscott8833]

The game changed forever when he tried (and could have both times) to drive a par 5 at Bay Hill. You can debate between whether to call them a double-eagle or albatross, but there is no term in golf for a hole in one on a par 5. And he can do it.

[@sillysailor5932]

Surely a triple Eagle or double albatross

[@Cats3141]

Missing the fact that a longer hitter likely uses a PW to the same distance as a 9i. Naturally more accurate...So one cannot look only at driver distance.

[@Sk82478]

Well clearly it does! Here after the 2024 victory! Go Bryson!!

[@johnunderwood8050]

its so cold in here

[@Michaelj22ff2st]

Now he won another major

[@ranson2450]

Mr. Bomb and Gouge T1 D1 of the Masters seems to be working

[@lil_ish_2122]

It’s just about the golf now which is longer drives more flip wedges because a wedge is easier than a long iron

[@earlblevins1284]

Well done!

[@CptGolfsAlot]

Surprised there wasn't more short hitters defending accuracy and putting.

[@PatMcCarthy420]

My favorite golfer

[@taylormartinlucas]

Why would the shorter golfer hit 6/10 fairways and the longer golfer 5/10 if they're opposite ends of the spectrum. Wouldn't the longer golfer be hitting 4/10 fairways?

[@zewill87]

Yeah would've been good to see what data they used. They just served that data as fact... But what if the longer driver was on a punishing course behind a tree? It will depend. Still, I get the point of the video

[@gasperstarina9837]

Obviously it does in certain situations on certain courses

[@bsmith4u2]

Bryson DeChambeau - Forbes net worth - $69 million...I think he might be on to something here.

[@toyotaecw]

Nice

[@PalladinPoker]

It's not fair to point out certain legends like Nicklaus and Hogan as examples of distance > accuracy. Nicklaus had top 3 fairways hit pretty much every year he competed, even breaking your mythical 80% if I remember correctly.

[@LLWCorp]

this may be true for pro's but not me as a 5 handicap. Recreational golfers dont have the short game skills and being in the fairway leads to pars and rough, bunkers, ackward short pitch shots lead to bogeys and doubles...

[@igainconsistentgolfassocia4010]

He was 91% on 10' and closer putts.. that's what won

[@BB-vy6ig]

Soomeone didn't watch the video.

[@colincolenso]

This is why Happy Gilmore is the GOAT.

[@deepwaterrehab7685]

And now he did it again 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻

[@ForeRight59]

Wait until the USGA finds that they will have only made it worse with the roll back. Distance isn't a problem, it's a biproduct of good players. Nobody complained when Nicklaus, Palmer, and Hogan were bombing it. Palmer drove the first green at the 1960 Cherry Hills US Open. Nobody at last years US Amateur was able to do this, and the hole is almost the exact same yardage.

[@JimLadBossMan]

Make the rough a little longer to penalise missed shots more. Don’t roll the Tees back.

[@itsnotokgolf]

Yes, yes it does.

[@Cats3141]

A modeling flaw is that off the fairway can mean in trees, etc, which greatly affects the calculation. It is meaningless without this correction.

[@thelammas8283]

In short: Yes and no. It depends on the hole.

[@travis5481]

Yes and yes. Because on every hole you will be able to take less club. I think everyone would rather be hitting 7 iron into a par 3 instead of 5 iron.

[@MegaTimtheman]

No disrespect but Cameron champ is the best example of bomb and gouge, but bryson is strong throughout the bag his short game during that us open win was brilliant and he wasn't in the top 5 for distance

[@dbo4506]

No disrespect but Champ wasn’t in a shootout final to win the world long drive championships. Bryson is the best example of bomb and gouge.

[@hyiux]

So after everything is said and done, it seems putting is still the king.

[@scottrussell4537]

I wish I could see Moe Norman play against Bryson

[@lawbinson]

Fairways in regulation is a flawed stat. Strokes Gained considers much more.

[@ellists3163]

You can’t outsmart a golf course if you’re always fighting for a good lie. And Bryson is an incredible putter to say he doesn’t care about that is incredibly disrespectful

[@Trizzer89]

Iff golf doesnt like this trend, just add more OB

[@springinfialta106]

Realty is said to be all about Location, Location, Location. I guess golf is now all about Distance, Distance, Distance.

[@mrbuckets11]

If Tiger was 23 years old now, with today's technology, he'd average 320 easy

[@the808life]

Distance ain’t king, speed is.

[@vintageswiss9096]

John Daly started this trend by being the first human to ever average over 300yds. Courses were redesigned...

[@jimiverson3085]

Lifting the left heel isn't exactly a new thing. Harry Vardon did it.

[@godz4681]

This is why people spend 600 dollars on drivers and 200 dollars on wedges

[@therottenrook]

Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, and Tiger Woods were all "bomb & gouge" before Bryson. They were all the longest drivers during their reigns, this isn't anything new. In fact, the faster your swing speed the lower your handicap.

[@martingonzalez2850]

I wonder what Nick Faldo would do today if he was born in this era?

[@aidenanderson9769]

Who’s watching after Pinehurst?

[@BernieTheBoxer]

Distance is more important than accuracy because of the courses not because of the strategic benefits. The courses are old and their layouts move slowly while tech moves fast. If courses could re-map as fast as TaylorMade and Callaway and Ping etc. the club makers would go out of business because their constant chase for distance would fail - the drive average goes to 300 yards and the most common bunker & large tree placements changes to 300 yards and the long driver is dead. Distance is king because it is easier than accuracy for both the player and the club maker. What we forget about the pros is they generally have plenty of both attributes and they putt soooo much better than amateurs. For an amateur the effort to get longer does not match the effort to become a good putter.

[@golfingfishermansurfer]

This is bs, accuracy is way more important for the average weekend golfer. I know a guy that thinks distance is everything and he smacks it really far off the tee, but can't hit the ball off the ground, and then 5 putts every hole 😂, i hit it like 20 yards less but get on in 2, or I have just an easy chip up.

[@loganw861]

Moneygolf

[@snappatruce]

Longer is always better. You’re always better the closer you are to the target. Don’t lay up, like, ever.

[@lgeiger]

7:10 You think that‘s the one ultimate truth in golf? That’s exemplary nonsense for amateurs.

[@RatluBoogerbag]

I'll stick take accuracy over ultimate distance, thank you very much.

[@GHOSTOFEIGHT]

Every stat in golf says otherwise. If you don't lose your ball, fairway or not. Longer is better every single time for all levels of golf.

[@RatluBoogerbag]

@@GHOSTOFEIGHT I don’t play for stats, I play for fun. I’ll take accuracy.

[@brandonhockey3076]

@@GHOSTOFEIGHT Yes but that is only if you don't lose your ball. For most golfers, focusing not losing balls and focusing on good course management and good short game would be the best way for lowering scoring average. Remember that those analytics were collected for the most elite players that already do those things pretty much as well as humanly possible. So at this level, because the gap in those particular skills is so tiny, distance gains becomes very valuable. But still, if the average golfer would start working to gain speed and keep good swing mechanics of course it would help a ton but it would just not the best way for them to gain strokes compared to the top player.

[@hiddenbunny7205]

Science tells you the facts, whether you do it or not is your choice, You do you, no one should tell you otherwise. But if you are convinced by the fact and change, you are still doing you, just changing your mind. That's great too.

[@loganw861]

@@brandonhockey3076 I agree, I think this will help excellent ball strikers who can push their speed without too much downfall. The average Joe may not have the time necessary to hone his skills and be punished greatly by swinging harder.

[@timothyjohnnolan]

Author: Distance is the only thing that matters Also Author: Distance is not the only thing that matters.

[@captgeesh5163]

Here we go with the analytics again. God almight is there a single sport these people cant ruin?

[@Andrew1454]

And still nobody wins like Tiger did

[@winsyong]

Tell me then why doesn’t he win every tournament, or at least a lot of them?

[@antpalm8]

Is this a real question? The data very clearly shows that if he didn't play this way he would be worse.

[@svk_5104]

You’re not the brightest person are you? lol

[@Hsjfnbfk]

Commentators voice makes you fall asleep

[@Jrallen42005]

Lol, yes all the greats hit the long ball, duh

[@emme6907]

Also people don't forget that Bryson totally customized his equipment in a way no other tour pro did. He uses different tech, and I'm afraid, for as much as I enjoy and respect Bryson, that they should put some limits on how you can customize your equipment.

[@nickmanville900]

Everyone is free to use one length clubs if they want.

[@emme6907]

@@nickmanville900 I didn't mention one club length, that's not tech, the first ones were already used more than 50 years ago. Eventhough you are kind of right because today s one length clubs don't lose distance for shorter shafts and don't add more for longer. (compared to the clubface used) I'm mostly talking about customization and tech info he s been developing like devices to calculate exact pressure on your hand, allowing him to use more upright shafts (10° more vertical than normal ones) and other things that most people don't know about unless they read The Golfing Machine.

[@emme6907]

@@nickmanville900 also, why do you think Bryson publicly declared that he KNEW he was going to be a change in world of Golf? Because he knew he had an advantage over others. Otherwise you can't be so fool to think.. "next year I'm going to beat all pros". He did. Now more and more people are changing their approach to the game, and Golf is at risk!

[@tonysmario817]

bryson is an unfortunate product of the novelty golf industry created by the pga to shill novelty drivers. not sure his swing holds up with real golf equipment designed to test the players game, not just his 'club head speed', as the modern game has deteriorated into.

[@nickmanville900]

Lmao cope You can buy all the same equipment he uses, see if you can shoot a 58 on a tour level course.

[@tonysmario817]

when he demonstrates he can break par with real golf equipment on a traditional course, like olympic club, then we will all know how good he is, or how novelty he is. he refuses this challenge, of course...preferring almost any boring content to the content that proves he's as good as the records he's chasing.@@nickmanville900

[@tonysmario817]

appears, this meaningless cyber rag is censoring my replys...too bad. can't even take the heat of critical responses to his content.@@nickmanville900

[@tonysmario817]

so 'highlight' the reply...but CENSOR my response? that's par for the course, huh golf disgust? @@nickmanville900

[@the808life]

Could be.. we know this driver tech has kinda plateaued but clubmakers still acting like every new driver they make is hitting ball further…smh

[@Callofthegame247]

Bryson only averaged 12 greens in the 2020-2021 season. His proximity was 38 feet or so, way worse than tour average. His scrambling was only around 59%. His distance didn't really matter, as there were other players hitting more greens and hitting the ball way closer. This analysis is way off base, and plain stupid.

[@rodrigodemiguellamminen5244]

This video is a load of rubbish, no offense. Yes, distance helps and is an improvement. But that has only happened because players are better and equipment is better, and these players are hitting it longer withou losing accuracy. That being said, the, by far, not even close, biggest factor in the average strokes dropped over the years has been how much better players have been at making putts. Putting has improved drastically in the past 30 years, even as greens have gotten faster and more complicated. Distance isn't "more important" than accuracy, but pros are so good that they aren't losing the accuracy even as they gain distance. Edit: hadn't finished watching the video, but in the last 30 seconds they kind of walk back their main thesis, which is a bit weird.

[@nickmanville900]

Loads of PGA data historically has revealed that the most important part of the game is approach shots. Its a lot easier to make those putts when you're within 12 feet on average compared to someone within 16 feet on average. Driving distance is in second place. Look at the best putters on tour according to PGA's analytics, you wont even recognize them probably. Who are some of the worst putters? Rory and Scottie, being poor with the putter doesn't seem to affect them all to much does it?

[@rodrigodemiguellamminen5244]

My point was what part of the game has made scores drop on the PGA tour most. As in what change in the game of golf has been of most relevance to players, on average, and that is putting, by far@@nickmanville900

[@mikewilliams1479]

I won’t say it’s all rubbish. Golfers today have better tech, yes but they themselves are also stronger and faster. To maximise distance you need to maximise its use via approaches, and putting. I use distance this way - the less times I need to up and down the more chances I have of scoring

[@vargasbasti]

It didn’t break it, dechambeau disappeared. There has always been muscle heads that think hitting it long is the only skill needed Courses need to become tighter and smaller greens and set a cap with balls.

[@BB-vy6ig]

You didn't watch the video. Some courses have become tighter, with smaller greens. It still doesn't matter, speed/distance still wins on average. Often times in those situations shorter hitters still need to hit driver, where hitters with speed can club down giving equal distance but an accuracy advantage. Smaller greens don't matter, it's an equalizer. That makes approach shots even harder for the golfer that is 20 yards further. Speed cap with balls, again won't matter. That will make the game even more difficult for shorter hitters. Distance, on average, is an advantage. Always has been and always will be.

[@vargasbasti]

@@BB-vy6ig sure. Distance is an advantage. Those who hit it straight and long will always be in a good position to win. What the sport needs to do is to make it so ppl don’t keep hitting it even longer. Like a baseball club that hits it longer and longer. It ruins the game. The game is about accuracy, not distance.

[@BB-vy6ig]

@@vargasbasti I beg to differ sir, it's most certainly about both.

[@touristguy87]

Anyway how can you break golf by playing golf. Yet another dumb golf video trying to rack up views by being contentious.

[@Alexandertygreat]

Bryson is exactly where he belongs, obscurity on the dumpster fire LIV golf. The saudis have destroyed a generation of golf.

[@AndrewLane-pm2ro]

Modern equipment and balls are ruining golf.

[@BGID7]

Ridiculous comment

[@rickm4295]

BS......That little cartoon between A and B is 100% copium. Hit in the fairway as long as you can but stay out of the bushes. Have an outstanding ball-striking game. Make you irons precision instruments. NEVER 3 putt EVER and you will win. The difference between 330 yds and 350 isnt enough to bring the bushes in play....