How Can Narcissists Have Both Shame And No Shame?

Narcissists are a walking bundle of contradictions, which means they are posers. On one hand, their manner of life is strongly influenced by messages of shame, resulting in them hiding the Real Self. On the other hand, they can act as if their conscience has been turned off, demonstrating zero shame when it is necessary. Dr. C will help you sift out this confusing pattern.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, TX. For 40+ years he maintained a counseling practice in Dallas, conducting more than 65,000 therapy sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder. Since creating his KZbin channel, his videos have received more than 120 million views.
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[@brucefriedman1]

In order to maintain a public appearance of being a cut above the rest, there always has to be a fall guy who is the subject of shame and ridicule.

[@yukio_saito]

They don't internalize shame inside of them. They project it onto you. 📽

[@amandaliverpool3374]

🎯

[@MarianneCatherine]

So true! 😢😕😔

[@LiveforHim73]

The narc I know is lived his younger life with disgusting behavior with women drugs alcohol. That’s a lots to be ashamed of. He got God in his life. Now he throws the book at others. Projection. Anger is an under current in his behavior. There is No love, kindness, patience. His words are few and abrupt. No ability to reason out issues. The cult we grew up in didn’t allow you to reason out ones beliefs. You had to follow their teachings absolutely. Long term creates the ability to not reason for oneself with all that life throws you.

[@anautisticsguidetotheunive4109]

Ding! Ding!💯

[@vickiegroome3220]

If it doesn't go to plan it's blame shifted to someone else.

[@lynnienorris5776]

Also ,Their Stubborn Inability to EVER Admit their WRONGDOINGS

[@howdydocowgirlcowgirl181]

Yep, they can't do that as they're constantly trying to run away from themselves.

[@pumpupthejam28]

If I could double like this comment, I would

[@jameswayton2340]

You can literally film them doing something and they would still deny doing that thing. If you would record them saying something that is a lie and play it, they would then ignore their lie you exposed and focus on YOU being the wrong one for recording them.

[@hurricaneaquatics]

​@@jameswayton2340yes! Happened to me many times. They live in another world, their fantasy world.

[@lijohnyoutube101]

@@jameswayton2340recording people is wrong, like a total lack of boundaries.

[@michellepurcell8703]

They dump all of their toxic energy and shame onto empaths

[@SnarkasticSunny]

Indeed! Says this empath married to a narcissist for too many years.

[@shar240]

I run away from fake, pushy behavior. It's so hard to deal with. Grey rockin makes them meaner. Treat them with respect

[@diane6920]

Recently, I was in the hospital. My narc husband would start to cry. My first thought he cared. I realized his tears were not for me. He was emotional for HIMSELF recognizing he would have to help me when I was discharged.

[@teresacamp5739]

Did he help you? This is what is terrifying me.

[@earthcat]

@@teresacamp5739 At least he visited you...mine didn't

[@lishmahlishmah]

@@diane6920 Haha (a bitter haha) 🥴 I had these "ahah" moments so many times in the last years... and I realized that my narc mother was immensely worried for the possible "more work to do for the family" if my father or even I were ill. No matter if it were a few days or one month illness. No matter how serious was the health issue. My mother began to play the victim immediately. Her husband or her adult children were in the hospital, she had and she has good health, still she tortures the sick with her tantrums. It's a horrible situation to face. Sometimes I was terryfied... And I had to enter a sort of "transactional game" to get some normal behavior, some help from this woman... (I apologize for my poor English. Very tired today)

[@diane6920]

@@teresacamp5739 His "care" isn't consistent. He has no problem leaving for hours. He's retired. I can only suggest if you have care needs, a back up plan of help (friends, relatives or professional) might be necessary. Empathy is required to give of yourself.

[@diane6920]

@@lishmahlishmah I wish and hope for the best for you. It is a difficult way way to live.

[@lynnienorris5776]

Personal Shame that NO ONE BUT YOU sees ... But Shaming You is a mere reflection of their Misery

[@lindawise4652]

I finally arrived at a point where I don't want my hurt or angry energy going his way anymore. I don't want to release negative energy that could be good energy for a meaningful purpose. The rationale of my thinking helped me shift out of emotions to an intellectual understanding. I've been trapped on a hamster wheel going in and out of good/bad emotions. Never getting off of the wheel. I haven't had EMDR therapy, but I read the purpose is to get out of an emotional perspective to a more rational one. If we had trauma as children, we began a perspective of life based on feelings. We were too young to rationalize. This is a relief to understand. I think of my abusers behavior with disgust. Which I am entitled to. A much less disturbing emotion than anger. Anger is hard to live with daily.

[@PbH22a]

It's gets to the point where it's so bad that it's just downright demonic.

[@MissKim671]

I agree

[@LiveforHim73]

Darkness surrounds this person. Feels scary to be in his zone. So weird why he thinks he needs to get so close. Intimidating! On purpose!

[@shar240]

Why do they believe they can just push people around

[@shar240]

​@LiveforHim73 they are a constant pest. In charge of life

[@Ratgirl2]

Yes my friend is so worn her partner tells her you need mental help I feel for her. She doesn't know how to escape it. She has grown children she doesn't want to tell them how bad it is. Should she let them know or hide it?

[@t_nels]

Any shame would instantly be turned to angry and a reason to justify it.

[@yukio_saito]

True.

[@t_nels]

​@@yukio_saitoMaybe early attempts to make them feel ashamed creates a battle (like two magnetic forces repelling each other). Example; being told your mother came down with life threatening disease during her pregnancy with you. They resist the idea, even before even thinking it out as a fight response or even scarier they just really don't care? Is it a wound or is it just a learned way to get what they want through hoodwinking?

[@flowers6576]

​@@t_nels I'd say "learned way" bc it's their initial, and most often, their only reaction.

[@amandaliverpool3374]

@@t_nels Yes. Like when they get caught out in a lie!

[@amandaliverpool3374]

Sometimes, they'll appear to have shame to hoover you back in. They have no shame in that!!!

[@MarianneCatherine]

After that, the whole cycle begins again. 🙄

[@caroleminke6116]

The only ever apology of sorts I got was a Sorry for being sneaky & deceptive… which just goes to show how aware they are that what they’re doing is wrong! That half admission was after an emotional affair he never got to consummate because he got caught but was still trying after he tried to Hoover me. Fortunately I was the person who discovered it first & told the other woman, his daughter’s age, without a clue he was lying to her. Now he’s completely out of supply 😉

[@amandaliverpool3374]

@@MarianneCatherine Indeed!

[@amandaliverpool3374]

@caroleminke6116 Ha ha. I would have loved to seen his face.

[@Lover_warrior]

Another spot on analysis. I'm a survivor of a 23 yrs marriage with a covert. 4 children with her. I kept us together until our youngest was 14 and is when I was discarded as my push back from the gaslighting was traumatizing our children and is what she needed to convince them that I was the problem only for the truth of her long term affair being soon after exposed with a man who I was told was gay and that she was no longer friends with. Best you can do is realize they will not be accountable nor will you be treated with any consultant measure of love and respect so that you must face your own fears of why you endure such cold treatment even though they will be sweet at times as a reward, it's manipulation. The stress is slowly killing you. Took me over a year of painful introspection to realize I was blessed that she left. I have now a very loving and respectful partner and life is as it should be. You can do better and you must feel deserving as such and be willing to go it alone.

[@MarianneCatherine]

@Lover_warrior Well said and good for you! Wishing you all the best. God bless!😊

[@amandaliverpool3374]

Prayers for everyone going through crisis' at the moment 🙏 Heaven help us we all have something going on! I felt as though Dr.C was describing my son today.😢

[@amandaliverpool3374]

This video is very much one to keep listening to for me regarding my son. He is a good lad deep down and often shows compassion, which is why I'm not giving up. He's been using alcohol to mask his depression. For a while now he has been drinking every day and been aggressive with or without alcohol. Long story short. He came home drunk, in the middle of the afternoon, and I wouldn't let him in. I called the police as he was causing a disturbance a few days ago.They advised him to go for a walk to sober up. That if he returned he would be arrested. He returned and was arrested and locked up overnight. The following day I decided not to press charges as this would mean cutting contact. I have, however, removed his key. He's allowed out for periods of time but will not be allowed in under the influence of alcohol. He'll be going to uni. His isn't residential as its nearby. He failed his 2nd year so is repeating it. I've pointed him in the direction of various support and I'm trying to remain hopeful, positive, and calm. As a single parent. I have been feeling partly responsible. I'm trying to let him know that all his deep seeted issues Aren't ALL his fault. The rest of the time I pray 🙏

[@aaronkwolfe]

Lol. Shame drives them to the point where their actions/behavior know no shame.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Yep!

[@sukiyakking9138]

Shame bounces off the false self and the false self is the firewall for the fragile real self which is full of shame.

[@marmaladesunrise]

Thus, that makes them dangerous.

[@MarianneCatherine]

Oblivious and in denial!!! 😳

[@IzabelaWaniek-i1x]

Adults need to sort their dysfunctional behaviours in therapy and it’s is their responsibility and they don’t use others as their punching bags. Narcisists project their shame onto others and have no shame while doing it. Tragic.

[@shar240]

We're not here to fix others, we're here to fix ourselves. We all have things we need to work on.

[@MarianneCatherine]

@shar240 That's so true. We can only change ourselves and how we respond to others. People have to be responsible for themselves! 🌻

[@CyberWitchShares]

I recently met a man whose narcissistic wife was so awful, she convinced him he needed to go to therapy (the whole “you’re crazy, you’ve got problems, this is all your fault, you’ve ruined me and the family” etc etc bit along with everything else) and he believe her due to all the blame shifting she put on him. He told me he was going to go to therapy and I just celebrated; the huge hope and silver lining that comes into play when narcissists do that; they basically get so toxic that their blame shifting gives their codependent a chance to escape them via therapy and getting healthy. “Thanks for the wonderful suggestion that i need professional help; I can hopefully soon come to see how awful this relationship is and can then be healthy and leave you.”

[@susanbennetttellstales7998]

As the saying goes, "You're only young once but immaturity can last indefinitely."

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Well stated!

[@joannajohnson696]

My heart aches. I have been married to a narc for 11 years this Nov. 2024. I have broken my spirit helping him. Today he gloated, "You never do anything for me anyway!" This is after I emptied my savings account paying for our bills. My whole retirement gone. Because he is a drunk & doesn't always want to work. This week he worked 40 hours, next week who knows what he is in the mood for. I am tired of giving my soul with no appreciation. I feel like I am dying inside.

[@caroleminke6116]

Make an escape plan if you can & leave! If it’s your home then go gray rock plz. Dr C saved my life & my home by this method. The narcissist simply disappeared one day & I ignored every attempt at contact since then… over a year free now & it’s wonderful to be here

[@stephanielindberg2836]

There’s a great book by Natalie Hoffman that helped me start to break away! Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage!

[@LibraryBP2]

Sorry about what you are enduring.I read what you've done for him, but what are you doing for YOU? You are valuable and getting help(counseling, talking with a trusted friend, etc.) are ways for you to handle the trauma. You're not alone, but you do need an outlet to survive the narcissism.

[@klimtscat347]

They have zero shame about not keeping the promisses they made. They're like a crust with nothing inside, it's difficult to comprehend at first, but there's nothing (good, at least) inside those "things".

[@Spootiful]

0:00 They are shameless in protecting the deep shame that drives their behaviour? 7:40 Not to mention criticism is a two-way street. You're free to criticise and offer argumentation but you have to be willing to allow for a response, for explanation, or for countering argumentation. Narcissists don't seem to like that and want a one-way street where they can never be criticised but they get to unimpeded "criticise" (read heckle) whatever they want.

[@elzechristinedun6387]

My story and observations. And I am so happy that it is over now for more than a year. I thank dr C.on my knees for his clear language and video's

[@caroleminke6116]

Yup ❤️‍🩹 me 2! Without the gray rock method I wouldn’t have gotten free! Over a year since he just disappeared & ignored every type of contact since then… thank goodness for kind men like Dr C ♥️

[@pamelamoore6239]

Dr. C you are a wonder. You're sharing the secrets of behavior and growth to us all. It's so frustrating and sad that those who need these treasures most won't allow themselves to listen. They are truly stuck. As a mother of adult narcissistic children, this is truly heartbreaking for all involved.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Glad the videos resonate!!

[@BaraSchmidt]

The Narcissistic individual is like a many-masked repeat offender. Just one disappointing layer after another. And you'll never get to their true self! Neither will they. Knowing is growing! Stay Healthy!!

[@Victoria-c4n]

- They don’t have a “true self”.

[@t_nels]

🪷

[@susanmunoz7688]

Thank you Dr. Carter, as always this was very helpful !

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Glad it was helpful, Susan!

[@slanjbo]

Shame - consistently felt by narcissists with trauma Guilt - the key component when they circle back around to you

[@t_nels]

Great topic! On point, as always.

[@MadonnaMead]

Always amused how the narcissist own hubris deludes them about how easy they give themselves away with their over use of projection and reaction formation. Always blind to their own dysfunctional behaviours.

[@caroleminke6116]

I guess that’s the point 😉

[@shar240]

They are so obvious about control and mocking others 🙄

[@SandraII-in9sl]

They need to grow up and deal with their own shame

[@rwdchannel2901]

I was talking to an elderly man acting highly narcissistic. He's disagreeing with me on everything I say, so what I did was kind of funny. I brought up something he said and said I agreed with it because it agreed with something I said. He didn't know what to do because if he disagreed with me, he realized he would be disagreeing with what he said. I'm so done with these highly narcissistic idiots who disagree with me to get a reaction out of me so they can feel dominant over me.

[@joshuahenley8246]

That Reaction Formation makes lots of sense why high conflict people can’t handle criticism that well. I’m glad for the explanation!

[@texasorange285]

Love the insight and how you’re able to explain in the simplest terms. God Bless …Texas loves you!!!

[@FoolintheRain123]

I love using the descriptive way of dealing with the interaction. The problem occurs in my experience, when they react identically as if you used the judgemental approach.

[@rossanderson5243]

What grinds me most is the war over others with the narcissist. The shame is the ones the narcissist is affecting or should I say infecting, are trying to be perfect for the narcissist’s sake. I tried to make someone my friend recently and we had an argument and went to the narcissist side, but I see her becoming anorexic and there’s nothing I can do. The narcissist has gotten into the way she sees herself and it’s a big problem. The narcissist affects the way people see themselves. They spread their emptiness to others.

[@t_nels]

My husband brought me a date with a chunk of cream cheese on it and almond slices. I tasted it and realized how much cream cheese was on this and I couldn't just act like this was okay. He said he made it especially for me. If he did he wouldn't have put all the cream cheese on it. He said he was making it look appealing. I turned it on him and said if I made him something he knew wasn't good for him would he eat it?... He wants me to follow his dietary rules not my doctors.

[@rossanderson5243]

@@t_nels If it as me, I would of said there’s too much cream cheese on this, my doctor said there are things I need to watch out for. I would of called it out. Sorry men are more direct but it’s great you listen to your doctor as he understands your health. When it comes to the outside world and others the professional people are better concerning your healthcare than those close sometimes especially if the people on the outside explain things to you.

[@t_nels]

@@rossanderson5243 He knows this, he just strongly disagrees with it. He used to go to my appointments. He has the same physician. She is aware that what might seem good for him isn't going well for me.

[@rossanderson5243]

@@t_nels yep it does look like he needs some control. Going to your appointments? Can you make your choices without his knowledge? Have them go under the radar so to speak. Sharing what are important choices are probably not good that he needs involvement. Smaller choices I guess would keep him happy. The important choice is your health and that’s under your control.

[@sharonericson480]

Mine claims his p*rn and affairs were "just fantasy and it was not real". This must be beyond narcissism??? Then he claims they never happened - that I have a faulty memory. Nope. I remember every moment. Sadly.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Keep in mind, Alternate Reality is part of the narcissistic pattern. That's a nice way of saying they make up "truth" to suit their self-serving agenda.

[@jeankipper6954]

That's a nice way of saying they're liars.

[@terriwilmottw]

Guilt requires empathy which the do not have. Shame is only when they are found out! They feel small inside and can only obtain worth by hurting others!!! Esp, their children and animals as it makes them feel powerful. I pray for my Ex all the time ❤

[@judysangregorio2787]

Gus looks so relaxed! Thanks for another great video Dr C!

[@Rainbowlorikeetbebe]

Brilliant message again Dr Carter thankyou. God bless you 🙏

[@arielalejandro6900]

Thanks Dr C. had a hard week dealing with narci... that must deal with at my job and this is quite healing. Have a great weekend. I appreciate you a lot.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Hi Ariel. I hope next week is better.

[@misottovoce]

Spot on, dear doctor! Thank you once again!😘

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You are so welcome.

[@misottovoce]

@@SurvivingNarcissism 😘

[@caroleminke6116]

How can you have your cake & eat it, too? Project! That’s the upside of delusion but it just doesn’t last

[@SnarkasticSunny]

1 WAY TO RAISE A NARCISSIST: If you raise your kids with no rules or expectations, where any & everything they do is perfectly fine, they never face any judgement for their actions...you are raising your child in a very UNrealistic environment - in that the world outside your door is NOT like that! It is ok to judge actions, without judging the child itself. It's the child's behavior that's not acceptable, not the child himself. (That matters!) Being careful to differentiate those 2 things & make it clear that it's the behavior you don't like/is wrong, matters! Parents are the ones teaching children so many things & if they don't do it, the child suffers. Children need to learn what is/is not acceptable behavior, in a safe environment. If you don't teach them that, then the world will. A big ol' world that WILL judge them by their behavior, according to society's norms. And out here, people are not so kind & patient as parents/family! Some parents are so fearful of judging their kid, that they allow anything, whatever they do, as being "perfectly fine", even when it's not. The outside world that they must function in as adults, will not 'baby' them; it will be more harsh in its judgement. As adults that don't understand what's expected, or that anything IS expected, they don't fare well out in the real world with 1,000,000s of other people. What's right/wrong, acceptable or not... & how to handle feelings of having done something that hurts or upsets someone...these are things that are best learned in a loving environment, such as family & are easier to learn while growing up. I know parents who never correct their kids - very passive parenting! (More like 'besties'.) "Everything you do is always perfectly fine", is NOT realistic; is not raising them to be able to function in the real world. We ALL do things that maybe not the right thing to do & we need to know how to handle that. (Denial, or anger reaction, is not how!) Feeling guilt is how we know we've done something wrong. It serves a purpose in healthy people & relationships.

[@MrScientific007]

Their mind is having constant fight with their Image/Pride vs their pleasure of wrong doings. Pleasure always top priority.

[@Rachel-mz8ko]

Thank you for this very helpful information. I could have NEVER figured this out on my own. It's applicable for dealing with my narcissistic husband (narc #2) but also for myself. At first, I doubted that I could be capable of pulling off the descriptive thinking approach, but after a second viewing. it seems possible. I'll have to listen to your video again and give it some thought (prep. work). Narc #2 seems to have a perpetual view of not being liked (acceptable). I've felt a bit grouchy over the past couple days and, honestly, wasn't quite such why. When I asked him if I seemed grouchy, he said "yes:; and, when I asked him why he thought that was the case, he openly said it was because I didn't like him. (Surprise.) So, I gave it some quick thought and explained that I had not been feeling completely well (mild covid) and had been dealing for several days with workmen covering an area in which I had no direct experience-- which was making me anxious. This all goes to demonstrate his sense of worthlessness (shame), lack of empathy, emotional laziness (sense of futility?) .... Can empathy be taught? Do we tend to define "character" incorrectly? @SurvivingNarcissism-0 is claiming to be you and is sending out contact information. I received a message from "them" yesterday but only saw it today. Others in Team Healthy may not be able to detect the phishing. PS I was sad to hear you encourage abandoning the narcissist. I do understand the need for emotional "separation" and objectivity.

[@lishmahlishmah]

Because, maybe... they have a very unhealthy dissociation? I mean, not a healthy human dissociation within the limits of normal manageability based on facts... (for example like the medical doctors working in ER). Thank you dr C 💚 Waiting for your lecture, waiting for Gus and... The blanket story 😁

[@iamjani]

I once confronted this person for his lies, I was told "So? It's your words against mine". I replied I recorded the incident. He then casually told me , "Well there you go". I often wonder how someone could be so shameless and disgusting to lie outright for poor behavior which clearly happened recorded or not. Are there ever karma for them?

[@MickeyMousehouse]

Thanks for this

[@aaronkwolfe]

Amanda brought it up in chat, Dr. C (so she gets credit), but is there anything that can be done for someone on the edge of the dark side? Perhaps a way to break through shame and help them toward the light?

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Let me ponder that one!

[@fred.k9875]

Dogs live a day for every week of our life so they make sure everyday counts they are one of most joyous creature among us.

[@earthcat]

@@fred.k9875 Hug that doggo

[@MarianneCatherine]

Sending love to Gus! He brings us much JOY!!! ❤🐕🐶🦮❤️

[@susannakotoff7095]

The narc we know was a golden child , she never did anything wrong, supposedly. She claims to have perfect childhood all the time like shes trying to convince herself and the image shes trying to project

[@istvankiss1068]

Doc, how far away am I from the truth? I have noticed that narcissistic individuals tend to behave with lack of maturity. The forming of NPD is generally based on childhood or early unresolved trauma. Now the narcissistic person will behave with such maturity as they had when their first major unresoved trauma appeared...

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You're spot on. What is maturity? It includes the ability to see beyond themselves, to live conscientiously with others.

[@istvankiss1068]

@@SurvivingNarcissism thank you Doctor C. You helped me a lot to learn about myself, set boundries and most especially what kind of environment am I dealing with ( collective narcissism )

[@istvankiss1068]

Doc. C. Here is a humiliate request to you from me. Could you please describe connections between narcissism, sociopathy and psychopaty? ( I started to realise that I am dealing with some hard heavy " s*** ". Please it is a genuine request from a fan....

[@jeankipper6954]

Narcissists deal from shame. It's SO helpful to inform and remind us, "...That's not my burden to carry..." This is difficult to remember, because the automatic, well trained reflex is, that it IS. I'm learning. Thanks for saying that.

[@earthcat]

I have given up. I have entered hospice care. Let's just get this show on the damn road. See ya, Michael...wouldn't wannabe ya.

[@diane6920]

I am saddened to hear you have given up.

[@imago9059]

Is it "based on shame but no guilt"?

[@darinsmith2458]

I guess the way I look at it is if they are already at shame as a starting point then they probably don't know what shame is.. I compare this to me being hypervigilant.. How do I know what is a real threat and what is a perceived threat.. If I can get at homeostasis or relaxed then I should be able to sense what is a real threat and what is perceived..

[@ritakroll5965]

I have been married to a narcissist for many years. It’s like living in hell. He has no shame and has ruined my health. I have stayed in this horrendous marriage because I love my children.

[@fred.k9875]

Also “I’ve seen that movie too” By: Elton John

[@SandraII-in9sl]

Elton John is the modern Beethoven

[@TOMASH_KIN]

TY FOR THIS LIVE🫂🏆🙏🏻🔝

[@evangelinerito8409]

They have no shame and no shame because they have no conscience and no commitment.That's it Dr. Carter.

[@lorderickreyes8461]

They are contradicted to you, but to other people they are so good that's what a covert narcissists is

[@fred.k9875]

And “Tonight “ By: Elton John

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Elton John...one of my favorites!

[@fred.k9875]

Please listen to: America By: Modern Talking

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Just listened to it. Great beat! BTW, my favorite all time guitar solo is Dire Straits, Sultans of Swing, the Alchemy Live recording...where he's wearing a red jacket.

[@lilithschwarzermond7342]

"I went into the desert on a horse with no name..." One of my favorite old songs and of course "Sultans of Swing"​@@SurvivingNarcissism

[@anthonystubbs1978]

✨

[@DdD-e7n]

Narcissists are punching bags from God to relieve your stress . Have at it believers .