How Canada got stuck building low-speed rail | CBC Creator Network

[@thestevenmartinshow]

Love that CBC is giving Paige Saunders a platform. He's absolutely fantastic. So is RMTransit.

[@PaigeMTL]

Thank you. That’s such a nice thing to read.

[@natalipierson98]

Thanks for writing out the KZbinrs names, I just used your comment to find and watch two Paige Saunders videos 👍

[@RMTransit]

What an honor!🎉

[@jimmoreau9661]

just bring back the day liners.

[@my2iu]

I really dislike the use of KZbinrs as “experts.” Just because you make a lot of loud, opinionated videos with views doesn’t make you an expert on a subject. Just look at Andrew Tate. This video was highly subjective and didn’t bother looking at the other side of the topic. There is lots of high frequency low speed rail being built. Switzerland is a country built on rail, and they have no high speed lines, just lots of high frequency lines. Brightline is winning lots of praise for its new low speed lines in Florida and California. If you actually ride the Montreal-Toronto corridor, you will realize that much higher frequency would be a big benefit. It’s not even clear to me that the alternate “plans” suggested in the video are even feasible or just some imagined pipedreams. CN and CP aren’t just going to let you build some random high speed rail lines on top of their freight rail corridors. I should also point out that France, their high speed utopia that they keep pointing to, has decided that they probably built too many high speed rail lines that are draining their economy and they feel they should have built more high frequency lines to smaller cities instead.

[@SnapDash]

The Montreal-Toronto corridor is likely one of the world's best spots for high speed rail: A string of major population centres nicely arranged in a line. This thing should have been built years ago. It's time we stopped the political dithering and committed ourselves to the project.

[@pbilk]

You could even extend the high-speed rail to the Waterloo Region, possibly Stratford, and then to London and Windsor. 😊

[@EastofVictoriaPark]

I agree Toronto to Montreal would make the most sense as a phase 1 build. Problem is politics. No way Quebec residents would accept a train that only goes west. So we'd need to include Quebec City, even though it makes more sense as a phase 2 build (as would west of Toronto). I also hope no one here suggest HSR for commuting to work from the 519.

[@BeHappyByBike]

As soon as there is one good line, everyone will want more. We just have start somewhere and let the domino affect transform Canadian transportation. 🙏

[@euanwarkentin7204]

@@EastofVictoriaParkI mean assuming there are 3 stops 5 minutes each between Windsor and Toronto a train going 350kph will get there in a little over an hour its not a great commute but if you're working downtown its definitely doable

[@TheG5Man]

At the very least I'd like to see them prioritize people over freight. How many times on that excessively long Ottawa Toronto trip does the VIA train have to pull over for prioritized freight trains. Something is wrong in our society - we prioritize things like cars and freight over people.

[@WilliamChan]

Great to see CBC getting into this kind of content. Very educational and entertaining! More of this kind of stuff please.

[@noneofyourbeeswax371]

Yep, finally doing the job the Canadian tax payer expects them to. Calling foul on government ineptitude and bureaucracy.

[@marclemieux8269]

​@noneofyourbeeswax371 Via Rail’s HFR project actually is a HrSR-type (Higher Speed Rail) of passenger rail project encompassing top speeds of up to 200 kph or 125 mph, coincidentally equivalent to affordable and effective modernized passenger rail in Sweden, Germany, and even the US with their regional NEC (North East Corridor) trains, just to name a few. Sweden's so-called HSR X2000 train even competes in terms of travel times on some routes with HSR in Germany whose trains only reach HSR speeds of 300 kph for only part of their journeys. In reality, approximately 90 percent of rail passengers in Germany use HrSR trains running at maximum speeds of 200-225 kph, while the remaining 10 percent use HSR trains. Why? HrSR trains are almost as fast, serve far more towns, and are far more affordable than HSR trains! I actually personally observed this fact while on an extensive rail tour of Germany just a few years ago. Contrary to this CBC News report, Via Rail’s HFR trains cannot be considered as being slow since these would reach similar speeds to that highly-used, fast regular intercity European trains. For example, Via Rail HFR trains would complete the Toronto to Ottawa route in a very respectable 2 hours and 55 minutes, a travel time much faster than driving and even flying, when one considers the usual delays encountered at airports, etc. On this particular route, the average speeds obtained would be on par, or better, than those on similar-length European routes! Most European countries only migrated to HSR once they reached maximum capacity of their respective rail networks! As such, there is no reason for HFR not to be just as successful in Canada! In closing, what would be the point of having HSR if it would be unaffordable to most Canadians?

[@dylanc9174]

@@marclemieux8269 This HFR only goes 200km in certain parts. Other parts of the track are owned by freight. Freight companies aren't very nice, so they force your higher speed rail to wait for half an hour behind their 1km train moving about 20kmph.

[@marclemieux8269]

The vast majority of HFR trackage would end up being owned by either Via Rail or the federal government. As such, Via trains would have complete priority on these dedicated tracks with the possible exception of trackage in or near cities such as Toronto or Montreal. You simply cannot compare the freight train interference taking place on a daily basis on the lakeshore route with the Via owned trackage such as is presently the case between Ottawa and Montreal that would end up being used exclusively by HFR trains! If you combine this with HrSR speeds of up to 200 kph, as evidenced in countries such as Sweden, or Germany, you'll have a winner, without a doubt! I witnessed this for myself a few years ago while doing an extensive rail tour of Germany! Most of the trackage in Germany only allows for 200-225 kph speeds; that's in the ballpark of Via Rail’s HFR service.

[@MTobias]

@@dylanc9174 I don't know what that guy's agenda is, but at least everything he talks about concerning Germany are plain lies.

[@iambored456]

This is what a great pubic service looks like. Independent journalists being highlighted and Canadian-specific issues that are critical of the status quo. Canada needs more of this, this is healthy for our democracy and healthy to creating a better country.

[@dylanc9174]

The best way for CBC to talk about Canadian rail is definitely to look at those interested in it to advocate.

[@jasperli]

Paige Saunders & Reece Martin, two of Canada’s biggest transit advocates! Thank you CBC for allowing two very passionate and knowledgeable independent journalists to have a larger platform. Definitely would love to see them have another opportunity to return.

[@DemandBetterCanada]

CBC does good journalism, I'm glad they are supporting independent journalists

[@marclemieux8269]

This video is full of inaccuracies and isn't an example of fine journalism! The upgraded HFR project wouldn't be considered slow rail at all but rather HrSR (Higher Speed Rail) which is faster than conventional rail and marginally slower than HSR! The proposed upgraded HFR would be far quicker than that which presently exists on Via Rail’s corridor services! HFR would offer a 2 hour and 55 minute travel time between Toronto and Ottawa, impressive even in Europe for a 400 kilometer journey! And HFR would basically be equivalent to X2000 so-called HSR in Sweden, that has very high ridership levels or Amtrak regional trains operating at up to 200 kph or 125 mph in the NEC that carry over twice as many passengers as the Acela HSR trains that can only travel at high speeds for very small portion of their journeys. I could go on and on with the flaws in this video! Sad journalism!

[@dylanc9174]

@@marclemieux8269 You are misrepresenting facts here. HFR would not give 3 hour trips for 2 reasons. Only certain parts of the track would allow you to go 200k, the other parts would allow 100k maybe. And 2 half of the track would be owned by freight. So expect to wait 30mins behind freight once or twice on your "higher speed" trip. So expect it to take 5-6 hours rather than 3.

[@marclemieux8269]

@dylanc9174 HFR would operate mostly on dedicated tracks and, as such, would not be unencumbered by freight trains. The 3 hours or less figure for a trip between Toronto and Ottawa is indeed achievable, with certain sections allowing for 200 kph, and is definitely not a misrepresentation on my part. The above-mentioned travel time was mentioned by the federal transport minister, Via Rail, along with other analyses pertaining to HFR. It was already shown on the UT website that a 3 hour and 15 minute travel time could be achieved using a 110 mph HFR plan! My comments don't come out of thin air, only through exhaustive research!

[@kerri648]

​@@marclemieux8269I still think high-speed rail should be built. HFR between Toronto and Montreal would be 4 hours at best vs HSR would be about 3 hours. A 2 hr difference from the current 5 is pretty game-changing, and IMO would really encourage travel between the two cities and make fewer people drive. Knowing this country, though, it'll probably won't happen.

[@dn00189]

This piece of report is really poorly researched and missed out best practices in China and Japan. Borh countries have better technology and experiences in building out large system.

[@arnaudmenard5114]

All I want, is train tickets that don't cost FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS one way, cross country. And public transport that let me actually live a normal life without crippling car and housing debts.

[@Alex-js5lg]

​@sjtwstotor, and hear me out, we could use the sound design principles used in the EU to shape how we design our own country so we don't end up like the US.

[@drdewott9154]

@sjtwstot That heavily depends, the EU is a bit better but not as much as you think. Plus it heavily varies from country to country. Like I'm from Denmark and we're walking right down into the car dependent shithole that Canada is currently working its way out of.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Cross country is thousands of kilometres here. Thankfully we travel very rarely from one coast to the other so it's not that big of a deal to fly when we do. Most of the time we are travelling between cities that are not that far apart, yet the train system is unable to consistently get us from one to the other in a reasonable amount of time.

[@pbilk]

​@@Alex-js5lgthankfully, we have mostly avoided becoming like the US in that way because Canadians generally have a better and a more accepting view of public transit unlike the average person in the USA.

[@BeHappyByBike]

​@@OntarioTrafficMan Thank goodness but we're still far from having good alternatives to driving for most places in Canada. So happy CBC is talking about this topic.

[@Mechanical-Animal]

I think it's hilarious that Canada's 21st century rail system can't even beat the best rail system from the 1970s.

[@TheRandCrews]

Hell Canada’s 1970s intercity rail system is better than current system

[@gregory-of-tours]

And the 1970s system wasn't even a little better, it was MUCH better. Two trans-Canada routes with trains departing daily. Now they run twice a week on a single route that skips Calgary entirely.

[@john15008]

Canada hasn’t had the investment that other countries have dedicated. People are more likely to use rail if they can get around easier at their destination. Ottawa is evolving to become one of those destinations.

[@linesided]

We're still stuck with Budd cars from the 50's lol. It's pathetic.

[@ianweniger6620]

This gentle video reminds me of the old joke that Canada is just three oil companies in a trenchcoat. Thanks Blaine and Reece for supporting regional rail AND proper HSR!!

[@robocop581]

It was more than 40 years ago Canada helped build a slow train in a remote province in China. Fast forward to today and China has a 42,000 km high speed rail network. A total of 180 cities in 32 provinces are serviced by high speed trains. And that high speed rail line project started in 2008

[@inventor121]

Funny thing is Bombardier builds high speed trains for China through a joint partnership. Those trains are designed and partially built in Canada. FFS we have the technical capability, industry, and funding and we still can't build it.

[@morimoko]

China runs those at a massive loss and there is all sorts of issues, if you are looking towards china for anything frankly you are looking the wrong way, ffs i thought the 2 years of being locked inside would make people see this.

[@tigading2177]

welcome to vulture capitalism@@inventor121

[@potdevodka]

@@inventor121 Cost per KM is significantly lower in China

[@Neuzahnstein]

you mean alstom now? @@inventor121

[@jonathanlanglois2742]

The worse part about this fight between Siemens and Altsom is that there is space for both in this project. Montreal's commuter train network is rather lackluster and definitely should be upgraded. Better regional trains running on the same track as the HSR could replace the existing commuter trains. They don't need to be as fast, so the Siemens trains would be perfect for the job. If we are going to spend that kind of money on infrastructure, we might as well make optimal use of it.

[@dylanc9174]

If only the government would make a plan for them and give the two companies their regions to work on...

[@stevencooke6451]

It's like Saunders is saying: there is a need for conventional rail and high-speed rail. Flying from Toronto to Montreal as a commuter route seems like a silly idea. Flying should be for longer distances, such as to Halifax, Calgary or Vancouver.

[@ronfischer191]

Love the suggestion of putting a GO line out to Peterborough and running the high speed out the smart way

[@inventor121]

@@stevencooke6451 As someone from Calgary we need HSR as well. Particularly between Calgary-Edmonton, and Calgary-Banff-Lake Louise, Other logical routes are Calgary-Regina-Winnipeg (You could quite literally make it a straight line if you wanted to without too many problems). You could also have Peterborough to Port Hope on a lower speed regional rail and link up/transfer to HSR. You could get Ottawa to Toronto through a rail station at Prescott with an HSR route.

[@wisekyle0800]

​@inventor121 well you're in luck, we are building a Hyperloop between Edmonton and Calgary

[@DDSHADE]

More content like this please CBC! Paige Saunders and RMTransit stay on top of Montreal/Canadian transit and it's good to see them both acknowledged.

[@firestaffer69]

I would love to see you do a story on the state of intercity travel in BC. It is extremely difficult to travel around BC without a car or flying. Vancouver Island has a rail bed but hasn’t had a function train system since 2011. The provincial government isn’t willing to invest in it, but we have 1 road to get in and out of Victoria that is prone to frequent closures.

[@logangod2]

Can't forget the completely underutilized rail line between Vancouver and Whistler... So much potential that is simply not used for commuters

[@Reason077]

@@logangod2 It does seem crazy that Whistler has a rail line running right through it, and a big beautiful station that is used by only by one tourist train per week. Although looking at Google Maps it's just a single track with no real platforms, sidings, or turnaround points, so I guess a lot of investment would be needed to offer a more frequent service?

[@estycki]

I was actually considering taking a train this month up, someone told me they took a train to 100 Mile House decades ago… turns out they don’t take passengers anymore 😕

[@fallenshallrise]

This report hints at why. Lobbyists from the airlines and bus companies. SO many people have moved up to Squamish, Whistler and Pemberton recently and there is no commuter rail for them to get into Vancouver so they all drive. Luckily due to the last 3 years most people are still able to work from home otherwise that highway would be bumper to bumper every rush hour.

[@tyroneemail]

Thats because any such infrastructure project would have to result in significant environmental impact and would not be popular with the political parties voting base. It would also be lobbied by indigenous group for half ownership without them desiring to invest money making this financially not beneficial for the private sector to invest in.

[@treblejunkie2082]

Fantastic work. **So** glad to see you two on the CBC

[@jamesatkinson2344]

Great, informative reporting. Only thing it's missing is some advice on what the average Canadian can do to push for more high speed rail!

[@weldonyoung1013]

Best "study of HSR in Canada" I've ever heard of. Hope it doesn't get lost amongst all the others! Way to go CBC 🇨🇦

[@patmclean1951]

This might be one of the best videos I’ve seen from the cbc in recent memory.

[@garymonteiro]

this was the best sacarstic transit piece i have seen. Great to see Reece there

[@etbadaboum]

Paige Saunders is such a fantastic reporter, thanks so much for doing all these superb videos

[@ScottHamilton1]

waves from Australia. A lot of this report feels very very familiar. We had a few less feasibility studies than Canada by sounds of it only just. Australia also had a weird sidetrack moment with something marketed as Faster Rail, which as you might be able to guess wasn't that much faster. It does look like the Australian Federal government are going to move ahead with some kind of HSR, but there are many hurdles and lobbyists yet to encounter. It is nice to know there are other friends who have followed a similar path.

[@ianhomerpura8937]

Which is weird. An HSR line between Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, and Brisbane is pretty much feasible.

[@eclogite]

@@ianhomerpura8937 funny how two countries with large parts of their populations in essentially in a line both have such a hard time actually leveraging that

[@fjeoijweiojfweio8212]

Australia's population in a line..? a line stretching 2500 kilometers. @@eclogite

[@eclogite]

@@fjeoijweiojfweio8212 you have to compare it to the enormous mostly-empty desert which mostly isn't in between all the cities

[@jeremythebeer8609]

One of the best things I've seen from CBC. Great report.

[@grd4629]

Excellent creative use of an overhead projector 👍

[@J-Sebs]

Great reporting from respected journalists! In my opinion, High Speed Rail is the only logical option looking into the future even if it is initially more costly.

[@stuartspence9921]

Producing content like this is the absolute best use of CBC funding.

[@Alex-js5lg]

We should have a corridor of high speed rail paralleling the Trans Canada from Calgary to Montreal by now... airlines are fairly affordable right now, but we shouldn't have to fly in order to travel between cities. Trains are far less environmentally damaging.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

Step one is to build lines between big cities that are only a few hundred kilometres apart, like Toronto- Ottawa-Montréal, and Calgary-Edmonton

[@Nabee_H]

​@@OntarioTrafficMan I could also see Calgary to Vancouver come in after that

[@Free-g8r]

There's a medium distance sweet spot for HSR where it is faster than flying. Over longer distances flying is faster, and over short distances driving is faster. Toronto to Montreal is exactly in that sweetspot. Going all the way to Calgary would not be competitive for HSR unfortunately. The distance is too far.

[@MrBaskins2010]

love that they featured RMTransit, he's the best. these videos are great teaching tools for international viewers

[@DannyKoKo]

How can the average Canadian get involved in this debate? Who in government is 'on this train'?

[@MrAlen6e]

There's many groups that are advocating for public transportation in the country not just deferally but in municipalities as well. Write to you're MP leaders as well bring them attention and also let others know this is an issue.

[@MelioraCogito]

Elizabeth May-the Greens have been advocating for better inter-city rail passenger service for 25+ years

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@MelioraCogito Oooo, high-speed rail from Regina to Mississauga? A lunar exploration program is cheaper.

[@johnransom1146]

Who’s talking about that?@@RideAcrossTheRiver

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@johnransom1146 This video

[@h.b.7104]

I frequently travel Toronto to Montreal using ViaRail because I do not have a car as I am visually impaired. The train is slow and outdated, yet almost always full. It is obvious to me that a high speed train from Windsor to Quebec City would be very popular and increasingly so as our population increases and fewer people own cars. The Feds need to step up and make high speed rail happen. Look at Europe for inspiration.

[@abcdeshole]

I’ve taken that train about a hundred times and noticed the same thing. The Toronto-Montreal train is always full. It makes it easy to believe that people would fill up faster and more frequent trains.

[@naomi89able]

Yes-it's always full even considering the high prices, and frequent delays from priority freight trains. With a train line that has rail priority, I would imagine it would be even more popular.

[@jessephillips868]

More of these type of videos please ! Great video

[@e5b7-wr811ouhih]

Paige Saunders and RM Transit.. I might start watching the CBC again.

[@Silos9195]

I was already a big RMTransit fan. I have a feeling I'm about to become a big Paige Saunders fan. Great video CBC!

[@DMSparky]

Nice to see CBC moving towards a proper modern journalistic format.

[@buildintotrains]

Thanks for featuring RM Transit! I hope he has a long and fruitful career not only in content creation, but hopefully high office where he can help create informed creative change from the top

[@SeanMenezesPhotography]

Really great video. Awesome reporting that we love to see tackling real problems and insights.

[@CalCalCal6996]

Amazing content, love Paige started watching him before I moved to Montreal. He's got a great channel.

[@moosefuel]

This is an excellent documentary, well done. Glad to see CBC embracing this kind of niche journalism. You're helping make the world better!

[@aidankronberg3059]

Great reporting! Hopefully this perspective can be shared in the public sphere to incentivize a re-evaluation on HFR policy. RMTransit said it best, no point spending billions building a less efficient, mixed-speed Ottawa-Peterborough-Toronto line when you can cover the Ottawa-PTBO corridor with a dedicated GO-Train line and build Ottawa-Toronto high speed instead.

[@nokitch]

This is great content CBC. Right on

[@AlecReimer]

Fantastic reporting and presentation on a vital subject! CBC should absolutely do more of this type of content

[@jpcourchesne]

So happy to see Paige again

[@stevencooke6451]

Sad that a country with such a long history in rail cannot build a railway. I say this as a light rail train that was supposed to have been running across the centre of Canada's largest city is now 2+ years late with costs continuing to pile up.

[@BoBandits]

Thanks, Paige! And CBC

[@danmcbride6258]

That was an excellent summery of our Rail problem in Canada

[@OSUTINDIIN]

I love how Canada put so much pressure and importance in getting cross country rail, and did so in quite the amazingly timely fashion. But for some reason, there's been no political will to move us into the next century for passenger rail 🤔

[@dylanc9174]

Canada's rail peak was probably 1930. We ripped it all up after that.

[@graffie88]

Because the government found it’s not viable in the bank book but a lot of the politicians are boomers and genX we need fresh brains in the positions of power, in the uk in 7-8 hrs you can get from Manchester to London on a high speed train or even go from London to Paris yet in Canada it takes 3 days to get across the country on regular rails and that train has to let freight go by so they are stuck waiting in a passing siding strikes and it delays the journey even more. Time to let the passenger trains take priority and let freight trains travel at night and when passenger service isn’t

[@shauncameron8390]

@@graffie88 The UK is much smaller in land mass and more densely populated. Easy to have HSR when there is less area to cover and plenty of population density to support it.

[@PAPADRACOLIN]

@@shauncameron8390 60% of canada lives in quebec and ontario, and more than 50% lives in the quebec city - windsor corridor. It's not a huge area compared to whats been accomplished in other countries, the very first high speed rail line japan ever built which was in the 60s was 515kms long. That's the distance between montreal and toronto, which are both of canada's largest cities. There should be more interest and will to be building a high speed rail line when in reality Majority of Canadians live in a very small part of Canada.

[@IanBerg]

Cross country by air travel is preferred by most passengers.

[@morganahoff2242]

That was very refreshing, to see an overhead projector used to display infographics in a KZbin video, in contrast to all the Fiverr-produced infographics out there. And pointing to just how long Canada's been doing studies of high speed rail.

[@amtrakharry]

CBC you actually hit the nail on the head !!! Congratulations... 👍👍👍

[@99malc1]

Thank you Paige Saunders. I've been waiting for this my entire life. Now 71, will I ever travel in high-speed comfort between Toronto and Montreal?

[@xouxoful]

Merci Paige, du bon travail toujours présenté avec beaucoup d’humour. Je n’ai jamais autant ri à propos de quelque chose de sérieux 😅

[@The_-_-]

Ayo that’s Paige Saunders. Congrats on the gig man

[@JaybayJay]

I would totally love to have a new highspeed Train system for Canada with sleepers and a double deck on each car so people could definitely have more space and take in the Country as they travel across it.

[@cherylsibson2529]

The last incline was "Back to the Future" a movie about a Flying Steam train, They make high-speed drones, and they can make a high-speed train system, it's clearly a choice they are choosing.

[@johnransom1146]

PS, my mom took VIA Rail’s “Ocean “ Montreal to Halifax. On a 19 hour trip it was 17 hours late. Some trains in the system are scap metal

[@dylanc9174]

It's not the trains themselves in my opinion. The track itself limits the speed (thank the freight companies for never fixing their tracks) And the freight trains getting priority (thank the freight companies for 1km long freight blocking passenger).

[@robertlindsay420]

Phenomenal piece. I work overseas and am always amazed at how backward we are in Canada....we can be better!

[@kingyertle100]

Love to see a big platform give Paige Saunders a soapbox like this

[@craigbeare9770]

Glad our airlines are deciding our govt policy cool

[@ethimself5064]

🤔 🤣🤣🤣

[@mra4107]

Excellent video on this subject! Would be great to see a follow-up piece that includes the issue of 'last mile' public transit connections in our car-centric, suburban hellscapes.

[@cellavb447]

Exceptional content! Love to see creatives like Paige and Reece bring the message to the people

[@esparda07]

If this doesn't tell you how Canada works, I don't know what will. People just talking and nothing ever happening.

[@osterguy86]

Great video as always Paige; thanks for the in-depth reporting on a complex and easily obfuscated issue

[@charlesbaran1106]

It's humiliating how backward North America is in building high-speed rail. Not that I expect coast to coast service, but at least have it in heavily populated corridors. Let's hope Brightline has success in Florida and California, then maybe other lanes will follow.

[@TheRandCrews]

Bright line in Florida isn’t even anything like High speed rail, it can hit 200km/h maximum but so does other intercity trains in Europe or Asia like the mainline trains in UK

[@marclemieux8269]

Brightline top speeds of 200 kph or 125 mph fall into the category of HrSR (Higher Speed Rail), basically equivalent to the recently upgraded HFR proposal. 200 kph is far quicker than driving, with construction costs far below those resulting from a HSR project!

[@ymhktravel]

@@marclemieux8269 These days HSR is defined as at least 250kph, as other countries are scaling up in HSR speeds. So what was formerly HS like 200kph is more like semi high speed now. Highest operating speed that's carrying passengers is 350kph now, in China and Indonesia.

[@curtismah1261]

Such great work Paige

[@zsedcify]

After a century of building up CN and CP from scratch, the Canadian gov't needs to sit both private sector rail companies down for a smack-down session that mandates expropriation of critical (but limited) property slices along the Mtl-Kingston-TO corridor so that re-aligned freight-rail beds and a new HS passenger-rail bed can co-exist side-by-side (but never intersect). Intelligent sharing of the railbed corridor is both the hard part and the easy part of this project, and we've never seen the Feds sit down with CP or CN once for such a re-alignment discussion.

[@Free-g8r]

Seriously CN and CP are the real villains in this story. They need to be strong armed into acting in the public interest as you suggested

[@TheRandCrews]

@@Free-g8rgovt really privatised CN

[@shauncameron8390]

@@TheRandCrews Because the government could no longer afford to run it.

[@colynsteele3025]

I love this guy.

[@conradcoolerfiend]

I WANT TRAINS!!!!!!!!!

[@Maryanchyk]

as someone who lives in London ON and knows it's possible to be at Union Station in under an hour, the fact that I will never see it in my life makes me weep.

[@timwright1484]

This comment is for engagement, more people need to see this video! Controversial opinion

[@pianoman47]

I travel between Quebec City and Toronto from time to time. It's annoying that it takes 11.5 hours by train, when driving only takes between 8 and 10. In my opinion, taking the train should be a faster option than driving, and cheaper than flying. It's neither.

[@natalipierson98]

Wow great video!

[@abcdefghijk8223]

Yeah great work guys. Really made it simple to understand. Hopefully the government goes with the high speed option between the major cities.

[@bryankerr9174]

To summarize: it would only be economically viable to build the high-speed tracks over the existing freight tracks, but we need the freight more than we do high-speed rail. This is why we won't have a Quebec City to Windsor high-speed rail.

[@hughjass1044]

I'm one of those Albertans who'd very much like a high speed rail line from Edmonton to Calgary. But since it seems we're not going to get one, I'd settle for, well,... any rail line.... just sayin'.

[@MrAlen6e]

For a G 20 it's a completely embarrassment how behind in infrastructure we really are, is like we got stuck in the 70s . If Canada is to be a world class country it needs to have just as good of infrastructure to the likes of Germany, France, Japan and so on. In the national interest we need to also stop looking up to the US and copying their car dependent failed vision. Canada should of had bullet trains decades ago and needs to catch up .

[@dylanc9174]

​@sjtwstotCanada's rail peaked before WW2, so we have to look further back.

[@user-gu2dx2ys8w]

The US is building HSR.

[@Neville60001]

@MrAlen6e, automobiles are still going to be needed by people for whatever reason they buy them for (especially those that live in rural areas where the kind of public transit that's in cities isn't feasible there.) Your anti-car screed only feeds those politicians who believe (and campaign on) the idea of a 'war against the car' like Rob Ford did (and which he used to destroy the Transit City LRT project that would've brought good rail transit to Toronto Inner Suburbs.)

[@gak2]

Think of the day trips if you could get between the heart of Toronto and the heart of Montreal in less than 3 hours. No need to uber from the airport. No need for a long security check. No need to wait at the gate for an hour. Think of the amount of business trips that take place between Toronto and Montreal. Think about how much much more comfortable and better for the environment a train is over a plane.

[@ttul]

Excellent journalism!

[@andyreid5543]

I am concerned about them rejuvenating the old CP RoW. The worst part of the line is east of Kaladar. It gets very twisty and there are tight turns there. Further, the community of Sharbot Lake does not want the line reactivated through their community. I have suggested to the HFR group that the route be changed in this section: east of Kaladar, lay a new route south-east through crown Canadian Shield land. Meet up with the CP main-line and run parallel with it all the way to Smith's Falls. In this way, communities such as Arden, Mountain Grove and Sharbot lake would be by passed. Also, go around Tweed to the north. This should not be hard to do. Now the swing bridge in Peterborough. This cannot remain if the line is upgraded. What I suggest is they move lock 20 to the north of the bridge. Therefore boats would go underneath the bridge.

[@davidjames4915]

I have a feeling that some people are taking the "resurrect the Havelock sub" a tad too literally (Paul Langan among them), to the point of absurdity: it's not even practically possible to follow it through Tweed anymore. I always saw it in a more general sense of following the Havelock / Hwy 7 corridor rather than the following the highly congested Lakeshore-St. Lawrence corridor.

[@Alex_Plante]

We will probably eventually have high-speed rail in the Windsor to Quebec City corridor, but maybe in 50 years or so. What is so expensive is the right-of-way, with all the land acquisitions, grade separation and by-passing of other infrastructure. What the government should do, is right away acquire the necessary right of ways, so that gradually, over the next 20 or 30 years, they can start adapting all the infrastructure that crosses the right of way (and any new infrastructure would have to be built with the future high speed train in mind). When the thing is eventually built, they will probably start with Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal axis, then later on build extensions from Montreal to Quebec City, from Toronto through Kitchener and London to Windsor and probably Detroit where they can connect with an eventual US high speed rail network, and have another extension from Toronto through Hamilton, St. Catharine's, Niagara Falls and on to Buffalo. This would probably eventually become a future Toronto-Buffalo-Albany-New-York line, the last stretch being shared with a Montreal-Albany-New York line. It would be important for any future high-speed rail system to have stops at Toronto Pearson Airport and Montreal Trudeau Airport, so that the high speed rails feeds into long-distance flights (flights of over 1000 km).

[@pbilk]

Yes! And while we do that, we need to improve our conventional speed trains (140-160km) that can bring more passengers to any highspeed rail line. For Ontario, this can be done by reopen old passenger lines along many of our old rail lines that need some fresh work on them to allow trains to go faster on them.

[@10z20]

GREAT PIECE CBC

[@gentlegiants1974]

So the key items that came to my mind here are what do the people want versus what do they need versus what are they willing to tolerate versus what exists now. Peterborough currently has GO shuttle bus service to the lakeshore corridor. I live and drive along the old CP North Mainline, and there are living people who can still recall riding the train all the way along the route before passenger service was discontinued by CP. It is a viable regular speed route, but it would require a total rebuild, a lot of new sections to replace areas now built up to residential housing etc. Grade separation is a must as there are literally thousands of level crossings with nothing but a stop sign in the bush along a country road. The current aggregate haulage along the route by CP plods along at jogging speed. I cannot see CP itself paying to upgrade the line let alone reinstating the abandoned sections through Tweed and Kaladar etc. It would be impossible to electrify the line successfully. As one who also frequently drives the 401 corridor between the GTA and KIngston it is obvious we have a problem. Here is my prime takeaway: The number of commercial trucks plying the 401 corridor, particularly along the sections where there is no dedicated passenger car lanes (Cobourg to Kingston) has turned it into a turtle paced drag strip for truckers, while frustrated motorists desperately attempt to make some sort of attempt to pass as many trucks as they can to somehow arrive alive at their destination. It would make sense, if the Gov't wishes to get involved in partnership with railroads anyway, to #1 reestablish the Toronto Ottawa Montreal Northern corridor referenced above as the high frequency conventional FREIGHT rail corridor, meaning shorter trains, more trains, passing sidings, switching yards where required. If incentives were in place for shippers to adapt their goods to intermodal container style transport and they in turn receive similar, on-time, service to receiver's dock, it would eliminate the long toilsome highway-clogging drive up and down the 401 and replace it with an efficient intermodal terminal at each end and intermediate waypoints and a short local trailer shunt to end destination once it is lifted off the railcar. The reduction in the volume of heavy trucks in this primary passenger corridor would permit a significant increase in speed limits for passenger vehicles, would allow a dedicated toll type truck lane to be built in those remaining 2 lane sections, and a strict enforcement of speed limits on those trucks that still choose to the mandatory toll route. This alone will tend to in time incentivise shippers to go with a cheaper quicker dedicated rail option, while allowing in the short term faster automobile commuter traffic along the Lakeshore corridor.

[@LoveTransit]

Great reporting by Paige Saunders. His KZbin videos are great too!

[@WadeLees]

Awesome to see Paige 🎉 Great reporting !

[@JeremAl]

Good luck Canada! High speed rail is awesome in France, Germany, Spain, Italy, China, Japan!

[@SportNut1]

I know lots of people who would jump in if they build a high speed rail between calgary and vancouver

[@jamielnasser9436]

We need high speed so badly. Windsor and London should be added too....

[@jcwasheregt]

This was a great report

[@youtubesafename123]

New video about the possible HSR being planned out would be great. Paige is so good at explaining transit stuff it's insane.

[@ikesau]

Hey CBC, can you include Paige's name in the video description? It's making it hard to find these videos when I want to show them to other people

[@shifty7082]

Reese is the hero we need, not the one we deserve

[@Neville60001]

Reese is only a hero because you have nobody else with experience other than him to listen to about rail travel.

[@loucololosse]

@RMTransit Nice to see you here ;)

[@alekthevampire]

Excellent content

[@KiLLKiNDLY]

Great work on this video! It's been so frusturating watching Canada waste endless money on studies for high speed rail to only not even do high speed. The only reason to not use high speed is to plan on future upgrades but that's dumb because it would be far cheaper to simply use high speed rail to begin with. . Canada simply needs to comitt to the high speed rail that it needs and will be able to serve the country for decades

[@ronfischer191]

That is crazy, High speed should be the only option. And I like the way you put it. The new train should beat both the car and the plane.

[@marclemieux8269]

Projected travel times for the recently-upgraded 200 kph or 125 mph HFR project route between Toronto to Ottawa (400 kilometers) would be 2 hours and 55 minutes! That's way faster than driving and even flying, taking into consideration the usual delays at airports!

[@libshastra]

Canada is engaging in the worst kind of value engineering. If you want to build a HSR, then build a HSR. HFR is not only expensive but it also compromises on everything a good rail network should be.

[@marclemieux8269]

HFR would be similar to the so-called HSR X2000 trains in Sweden, in actuality, a HrSR-type (Higher Speed Rail) of fast, intercity rail service operating at top speeds of 200 kph or 125 mph! It works very well in Sweden! Why wouldn’t it function just as well in Canada with hourly frequencies? Have a look at the KZbin videos highlighting the impressive X2000!

[@railfandepotproductions]

@@marclemieux8269 there were some that went to amtrak for testing in 1993

[@libshastra]

@@marclemieux8269 They are trying to achieve the same with DMUs. That's the problem with value engineering.

[@marclemieux8269]

What's the point of engaging in endlessly recurring modernized passenger rail studies if our federal government hasn't any intention whatsoever of ever building this 7-8 year old HFR project as a result of effective lobbying by the air, auto, and oil industries, regardless of the increasingly disastrous effects of climate change!

[@railfandepotproductions]

@@marclemieux8269 Make lobbying illegal?

[@deanorr5378]

That seems like the most logical solution to me. Conventional speed GO train to Peterborough and High Speed along Lake Ontario to Ottawa/ Montreal. Lets see those proposals and get rolling already!

[@jackdough8164]

I hope they leave a trail beside the train lol it’s such a beautiful area to explore.

[@davidreichert9392]

I get why this is frustrating, but there are still some major steps forward happening here, such as Via trains not being beholden to freight rail for timing, and services with fewer stops. These two things will contribute more to reduced travel time and reliability than going High Speed will. Via has further modernisation to undertake, most notably the painfully slow boarding process. Via is unfortunately still playing catch up with even the most mediocre rail services in Europe, I feel like we need to address the basics before making the leap to more advanced things like high speed. I've spoken to a number of people from countries known for their high speed rail, and I'm surprised to hear how many of them still use the conventional speed trains.

[@TheRandCrews]

There’s still room for conventional trains though like suburban commuters, cheaper intercity trains but still fast (like 120-180km/h), and on another video sleeper trains as well. Also, electrification is a major investment with modern signalling like automatic train control and communication based train control systems for high speed rail, not include dedicated right of ways for it. It’s cheaper and also still efficient for the other routes and travel options people take still using conventional speed trains HFR is trying to fix both the unreliability of the service due to being late or stuck with freight traffic but some proposed to go higher and become high speed. Both can still (and will) exist cause travellers from the Kingston portion still need the service.

[@marksjudd2772]

Great presentation! We have a very similar situation going on just south of Ontario in New York State. There has been a study, if you can believe this, going on for the past 15 years!! To decide if we should build 90MPH, 125 MPH, 150MPH or 200MPH train system linking Niagara Falls NY with New York City. The decision after FIFTEEN YEARS of study, is to go with the 90 MPH option... WHAT??!!?? What the hell is that all about... and we have an Alston factory right here in the state making next-generation Acela trains.... ahhh politics!

[@gparsr]

Top review-appreciated this excellent overview. Frustrating situation to see little progress as it’s dangled around for election talk.

[@MrLiguinii]

A wild Paige appears. He uses facts. It is very effective.

[@Pomegrante-b1m]

This is so frustrating. We know we need it and yet we drag our feet.