How Chess Ruins Characters: The Many Failings of Lady Oscar

[@kiransampat4338]

This movie needs to be remade with brilliant acting and a well written screenplay.

[@belle-ashton2167]

Yes omg

[@belle-ashton2167]

This film is not portraying an equal love relationship between André and Oscar...

[@someone-go8cq]

Couldn't have worded my feelings for the film any better! I was always so appalled by Andre's adaptation, his entire character was just a cocky scumbag who felt he deserved Oscar's love when really he never earned it to begin with. The film's incident scene was the biggest highlight of that for me. Thank you for making this video, it was extremely entertaining and well thought!

[@mannastea]

Thank you so much! Yeah, I was shocked to see most "reviews" of the film didn't have much to say about André, even though I definitely believe he was at least half of the problem. (Not the actor, of course-the character/character writing.) I'll never understand what possessed the screenwriter to write André the way he did. Even at his worst in the manga, André is never like that. I mean, I guess I covered it in my analysis: cocky scumbag André can move the plot forward, while passive/shadow André cannot. Still, it was disappointing to get an Oscar who was completely clueless (though at least not unwilling to learn?) and an André who felt like he was better than her. :(

[@belle-ashton2167]

1:00:39 also the turning point about André’s blindness, it literally made him desperate, this incident was most certainly motivated by his sorrow. :/

[@supermadtrash]

Ah yes Nondre, Noscar, and the Badaptation! This was so well thought out and presented and an absolute pleasure to listen to. I especially enjoyed the sweet wine of manhood-- ERRRRR no. I enjoyed your take on what makes a good adaptation and especially your suggestion for an alternate character arc for Oscar like...that would’ve been so satisfying to watch??? And to get a peek into Oscar’s brain? Emotions? Who she is as a person?? Delicious. Nutritious. Keto-friendly. Mwah.

[@mannastea]

Thank youuuuu! I know that you secretly do enjoy the sweet wine of manhood...it is a delight. That said, I think I've seen enough adaptations at this point in my life that it's become easier for me to kind of...know what makes one "good" or not. Are my years of fanfic-writing to blame for this? Surely. But I don't think that's a bad thing!

[@Imanu2009]

I think it was very clear in the Manga that André did never have a relationship with another woman and that he thought of himself being inferior to Oscar....not expecting her to love him back... This whole script is a mess...

[@belle-ashton2167]

1:30:18 exactly!! It completely reversed the idea of equality in love in the manga !!

[@princerosalium]

i just started this video but i am... so set to watch this whole thing and then comment my thoughts again but i just need to say, immediately, hello, i literally stay up for hours reading academic articles on rose of versailles and have written essays on it for my asian studies degree and oscar is tattooed on my arm... and i just appreciate you so much for even spending the time to make this video . i don't even know what your takes are yet, i just came to say i love you

[@princerosalium]

okay, I hope this doesn't come off as overbearing or weird or anything, but I had so many thoughts that I put them in a google doc for ease of access instead of a comment. docs.google.com/document/d/1aA8lm6wO8OZNxl478UPbUGCWU9pEhLkXxFrwuCxsObE/edit?usp=sharing I hope you read this, this video has consumed my entire night

[@mannastea]

@@princerosalium HELLO......I am so late to this. I haven't logged into this account in a hot minute (uhh...a YEAR....oops) so I never saw your comment because I think KZbin hates me or something. No, it's just a secondary account and I think comments weren't being emailed to me. A shame, because your comment is life, your comment is love. I am SO here for you, your incredibly cool car, and YOU HAVE A TATTOO OF OSCAR? I'm here for it. AND YOU. So first, thanks so much for commenting TWICE on this, and for the Google docs link (which thankfully is still working, whew!). I love how you came out of this video shAKING because I know exactly what that feels like, so I'm super flattered! I actually did not read Anne Duggan's article, or at least not all of it. I went out of my way to pay for an article that I wanted to read and in typical Idiot Fashion, totally didn't get around to reading it, but I couldn't tell you the name of it now. (I've since switched computers.) It's kind of funny that her take and my take both use chess pieces but for wildly different reasons. LOL. (I used to play chess as a child, so for my take I was interested in how chess pieces, or at least the purpose of chess pieces within a game of chess, are designed to only do specific thing: the knight can only move this one way, the pawn another, et cetera. I feel like my metaphor could have really been taken to great heights if I had tried harder, but beggars can't be choosers and all that lol. If I have the energy to work on anything I feel like the stars have aligned.) I'm glad you thought all my takes were good... It's hard to be public about some takes on this series because so many fans are stuck so hard in their old mindsets. I remember in 2008 when I was writing a lot of fanfic for it, there were a great many people on the forums still who were constantly arguing about the same-old, same-old really bad cringey takes. It was like they never wanted to evolve and learn to view things differently. Of course, viewing the series for the first time since then, I was able to come out of it with some new thoughts and opinions, in large thanks to the Internet helping me understand myself better (and through that, I felt better able to understand the things about RoV that resonated with me). For example, Oscar's sexuality was something I was keenly interested in in 2008, but by the time 2020 rolled around, I was better able to understand WHY THAT WAS. LOL. Anyway, I'm really glad you liked what I brought to the table! I think I struggled the most with putting my feelings about The Incident scene into words because I spent so long trying to make sure that my take was something backed by canon and not just me defending André. I think André definitely ends up mentally unstable, but it's not as if it's out of nowhere. The story *is* a tragedy after all, and I think people forget that the tragedy in Rose of Versailles is NOT that the characters die-it's everything leading up to it. (I covered this in a fanfic, actually. The end of the series is sad, but it's satisfying...which is why it works as a tragedy. It's cathartic, the characters don't die for nothing, and the true tragedy was Oscar getting lost in alcoholism and depression, and André losing what little sense of self he actually had.) Anyway, I agree that the incident scene is where André loses that last bit of entitlement toward Oscar, not just as a male, but as her (nearly) lifelong and constant friend. I'm sure there's some gender fuckery going on in there, because this is a 70s series, but love is love, and even if André were a woman I think the same feelings would be on the table to be struggled with: Oscar's sad that Fersen doesn't love her but she doesn't recognize or seem to appreciate the love and care of the person who has literally always been there for her. Feelsbadman. So he tries to reassure her in his own way (Fersen doesn't love you but I Do!), and gets pushed away because Oscar has never really been given the freedom to examine her own feelings (and in fact, her own feelings make her uncomfortable). He reacts poorly to that-probably because it hurts to be treated that way by someone you've dedicated your life to and things get a bit out of control for a moment. Again, André still isn't entitled to Oscar's romantic or sexual affection, and she never asked him to dedicate his life to her, so...too bad for him lol, but the things they are both feeling are at least *understandable* in that scene. In my opinion, anyway! There are definitely things about the anime that I don't like, mostly the things you mentioned (Oscar actually has a sense of humor/little more fire to her in the manga). Oscar's manga personality is just...better developed and fleshed out, so she feels more like a person, whereas shorter or smaller productions really don't have the time/ability to show Oscar with the same kind of depth and tend to rely on showcasing specific traits to tell the story more succinctly. I actually own some TOTALLY LEGAL (lol) Takarazuka productions for RoV, gifted to me from a cosplayer friend of mine in ye olde days. I don't have the patience/energy to watch much these days, so I'll be honest in saying if I had more versions I probably would not watch them (I hyperfixate hard but when I'm not fixated I cannot make myself do anything with it). I do think it's lovely, though, and it was cool back in the day to see how they adapted things to the stage. It's nice to meet you, Rose. I'll have to check out your channel and maybe drop some comments! I hope you do make an RoV documentary someday. There's so much to look at and talk about, and so much history to consider. I'm glad this helped you look at the art of adaptation outside of just the specific badness of this one film. I do think this film sucks, but not just because it butchered RoV! LOL. I have no plans to revisit RoV anytime soon (making this thing took so long it burned me out of video stuff in general) but I'll keep you in mind if I do!

[@drekaflugan]

I watched the movie and this video back to back, I swear watching this video felt like 1/3rd of the time it took to slog through the movie. I kept pausing the movie to check how much was left too 😭 You deserve way more views, I know you must have put a lot of effort into this and it was so nicely made and set up I feel like one of my biggest problems with the movie (I've only seen the anime) is that the ending just felt ... SO unexciting and anticlimactic ... There was no buildup, no tension, just oh then this and this and this happened and now Oscar is wandering around the streets all sad ... but you feel nothing you don't feel the loss or triumph you don't feel anything!

[@АнастасияБ-б6п]

It was worth watching the film - after all I got to enjoy such a good essay. Thank you! Most Takarazuka productions of RoV have far better plot structure and character dramas than this film

[@Margarita14891]

Also the ending is 100% different than the anime and manga, In the manga/anime andre dies during a battle, oscar mourns and the next day she dies during the bastille attacks. But here its oscar lives, andre dies during the bastille. Like at keast stay true to the end

[@belle-ashton2167]

The dance scene...more chemistry than with André...

[@w.centerprisesbluestar8603]

So I take it this is like the Avatar movie of anime adaptations?

[@ulrikeg2639]

How come I'm only seeing this video now?! In 2020 I watched/read Lady Oscar in all three versions: as anime (my childhood), as manga and… this terrible film. You have put an incredible amount of effort into analyzing this “masterpiece” in detail. And you are right on many points. Especially what you say in 1:25: The film should have been more of a film. For me it felt as if the film wanted to cover as many stations as possible from the original material in order to generate as many ah, this one“-moments as possible. And completely lost the story. If I had been the director, I would have focused on a single thread in the entire universe and painted it in as bright colors as possible. So no Rosalie, no Jeanne, no collar affair, just a little Marie Antoinette, no Prince Joseph, no politics... that could have been done using the “tell, not show” strategy. And know where you want to end up. The film left me with the feeling of „haha stupid girl, you thought you could do it on your own and with that silly love. Now you have lost everything and are all alone in this world“ WTF? By the way, I noticed today how poor the camera work is in this film, so static, like a theater stage. This might increase the felt distance to the characters. Thankyou anyway! Glad, I am not alone with my feeling about this film.

[@imthechinchilla]

Thank you for this wonderful video essay! As a big fan of the original series, I really enjoyed watching your analysis on the live action film.

[@mannastea]

Thank you so much for watching/listening, and for commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed my take on things! The original series was just so good... It's unfortunate the live-action wasn't better.

[@princessinfrills]

I started to watch it and lasted 6 minutes, Giroret is so bad and disgusting in that movie he makes me feral and not the right kind

[@belle-ashton2167]

This live-action needs a series-adaptation like 1975’s Poldark had in 2015 with decent actors and budget...

[@CLF211]

I enjoyed this very much. Great work 👍👍

[@belle-ashton2167]

1:06:51 you should check out the French dub ! So touching and beautiful!

[@fratercr5262]

This was great. I just watched the anime but maybe I should give the manga a chance too.

[@belle-ashton2167]

You forgot the scene in which we see Louis in the building beneath Fersen and Marie kissing!

[@RGSuperfan]

That was very interesting and accurate!

[@katiaplantscientist]

Gosh this is so darned weird! I love these characters in the anime and manga but here they remind me of a badly written fanfiction. It's like the My Immortal version of Rose of Versailles!

[@井上葉子-w1b]

ううっ部分部分しか聴き取れない。恥ずかしいのですが、少しずつ何回も聴いて行きます。😱

[@Imanu2009]

This movie is horrible...it's an insult to the beautiful story of the manga, which was adapted very well in the animé. Both, the characters of André and Oscar are completely messed up.

[@belle-ashton2167]

Only the music, the sets and costumes were good, I love Jacques Demy but just no...

[@falconeshield]

This movie was good for the costumes. Not sure about everything else.

[@belle-ashton2167]

1:01:17 there I said ! ;)

[@belle-ashton2167]

53:40 MALE GAZE 😣

[@ana-fq5gr]

Not trying to defend the film - it's a horrible adaptation, I agree, and a pretty mediocre film on its own. But in regards to the character of Andre: he's not so "perfect" inn the source material either, so I wasn't really surprised with his characterization in the film, though I agree that it heavily overemphasizes the negatives. I don't understand, you complain about movie Andre kissing Oscar without her consent, but then at 19:38 talk about a "tender and beautiful scene" between Oscar and Andre in the manga. This scene also shows Andre kissing Oscar without her consent: she's blackout drunk. Not to mention that in the manga and the anime Andre tries to r*pe Oscar. Or that he tries to kill her in the manga bc he thinks he can't be with her. Andre does love Oscar, but he feels entitled to her reciprocation both in the manga and the anime. This is not something that was added in the movie. Although, in the original IP at least it's written as something that is escalated by his disability. Which at least adds some complexity to his character. Admittedly, I feel pretty lonely in my distaste for Andre and his relationship with Oscar, because, like you said, it's a focal point of the story, and it makes me feel like there's something that I dont "get" about Rose of Versailles. I'm sad that Ikeda has made these unfortunate writing choices that waters down the romance for me, maybe one day I'll be able to turn a blind eye to them and brush them off as mistakes that are a product of the time the story was written in that now we're supposed to overlook.

[@lovelydreamingtime9563]

1:17:09 Looks like that shot (which was filmed in the château de Jossigny) was what Ikeda used as reference in her side story "Loulou's doll"! thethornsoftheroses.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/bj02011.png?w=630