How clean are Android head units? ATOTO S8MS Distortion measurements

[@remifassol4198]

This channel is criminally underrated! So much useful information, thanks for all you do!

[@kavaninho7]

Agreed

[@bieldionizio5261]

Thank you for the channel. I'm from Brazil and this content dosen't really exist here. I'm learning a lot seeing your videos.

[@adyandrey23andrey]

I recently found this channel and I feel like if I was doing youtube, this is what it would look like😂. So pure and full of information, tests, experiments and newbie-friendly advice. Much luck for the future to you!

[@neildeatherage2269]

I appreciate your time and effort in everything you did to produce this video. And yet such a missed opportunity when having a conversation regarding android and SQ, but with the MS that not a single person would purchase if SQ was someone's intention

[@JasonWW2000]

I assume you're referring to this specific model of head unit. Android is certainly capable of very high SQ when it's done properly.

[@ahmadkhairilirham]

There's also the standard SD version with RCA out. Or maybe its region limited

[@garycaudwell5214]

Finally someone techical to evaluate the Atoto

[@kilgoretrout4461]

I would love for you to test a Teyes CC3 android head unit. If you get a chance to test one I would sincerely appreciate seeing it. Thanks for what you do!

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

It is going to be the exact same thing and it probably uses the exact same chip, as he explained in the beginning of the video. I have a different branded android head unit from his and mine uses the exact same amplifier chip as his. Even if the model number of the specific chip is slightly different, as is across all the different brands making these units, it is not going to perform any differently than what he just tested. If it even did it would be so small of a difference it's not even legible. Since he is also using an Atoto which is arguably the best brand android unit on the market, everything else is either going to be exactly similar or worse than his. Just like he explained, they are all extremely similar to the point it's not even worth testing anything else in this category because it will be the same result.

[@dsk-xx]

Only chip doesn't decide the cleanliness. If all other Android use the same tda chip , doesn't necessarily mean that all Androids will measure similar to this. There is alot of circuitry involved before this tda chip amd after this tda chip. The design, quality if components and implementation of those circuitry combined with this tda chip , decides the performance

[@scottburgess2263]

Thats the HU I recently put in my a3, would love to see an expert review it - especially the EQ settings.

[@garycaudwell5214]

I see you don't have any low level "random computer buzzing" type noise which does not increase with the volume control. This is when I connect my old Kenwood amp to speaker or RCA outputs, with resistive voltage dividers. Yes I am a technician! I suspect I have noise from the car electronics being superimposed onto the head unit supply. Good to see that not all these head units do this! Fantastic video, very clearly presented.

[@adrianjosephdavid8128]

thank you for measuring these android head units! i'm curious to see how the maxpeedingrods head unit measures out. I saw a video from DIY Audio Guy about a year ago which shows the rcas to be pretty clean, but it's the only resource i've seen documenting it. I would love to see you test it, too!

[@JVCORTIJO]

See if you have the opportunity to try one of those with digital outputs, it would be nice to see their response.

[@flowinel]

Great video, so nicely explained without getting too technical.

[@phizzle24]

When you mentioned you have an Alpine F409.... it brought back memories of an MRV-F409 that had "Special Edition" engraved/stamped on it. Is yours the same? Mine was used in an all Alpine system, the 1st generation single din iPod head unit, imprint dsp, front Type R components, Type R coaxial in the rear doors, MRV-1507 sending power to two 12" Type R subs in a custom sealed box with a dedicated 2nd battery and capacitor. Loud and clear.

[@RAW-CAt]

Yep, the same special edition with copper back plate🙃

[@phizzle24]

​@RAW-CAt that era of Alpine products was some of, if not THE class leading equipment without having to sell a kidney. I along with a lot of others really appreciate the good info and the easily explained testing/results. Thank you from Australia 🦘🐨

[@HazzJC]

This video is absolute gold - thanks for sharing all these insights! I’m wondering if using the internal Android interface might offer better audio quality than USB, e.g. running Spotify Premium natively versus through Android Auto. It’s a shame because these head units are so appealing feature-wise. I wouldn’t mind too much if the initial sound quality wasn’t top-tier, but having a true, high-quality RCA pre-out and improved Bluetooth audio could really make them more adaptable for anyone wanting an upgraded audio experience

[@RAW-CAt]

Check out my later videos about Joying and Atoto S8 ultra😉

[@JasonWW2000]

What some people forget is because this unit has built-in hard drive storage you can transfer all your music directly into the head unit and play it from there. That's what I do. Then I keep all of my various test tones on a USB drive that I can plug in should I need to do some testing.

[@robsolf]

Appreciate the vid! But I'm a bit confused about some things you said at the end. You're saying not to bother with quality amps as the noise from the head unit power amp would make the extra expense irrelevant. But you were measuring power amp output. And the unit you're testing has RCA preamp outs to connect to external amps. Are you saying the preamp is causing the distortion? I'm curious about the distortion at the RCA pre's(not those line levels you're talking about at the end; the actual RCA's that connect to the pin blocks), as that's what would matter if you're building a serious system with external amps. Anybody trying to build a serious system using deck power is gonna be disappointed for the reason you mention: You'll only ever get about 20 WPC(or less) no matter who the manufacturer is: Dual's Walmart special or a flagship Alpine. Again, I really appreciate your efforts and your sharing these sorts of tests! Love this kinda stuff!

[@RAW-CAt]

This particular head unit does not have RCA pre outs. You are supposed to use the LOCs that degrade the sound even further.

[@robsolf]

@@RAW-CAt ugh... yeah, not good.

[@bennyblanco14]

Well i am happy to see that these head units do well...i have the S8 pro, and i use the optical output for the best possible sound ..the higher end ones like mine for bluetooth is aptx hd so, i assume this hu is the entry model...not shabby for entry

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

I have an equally specd head unit as well with optical out, what are you using for the input of your optical out?

[@dsk-xx]

Only chip doesn't decide the cleanliness. If all other Android use the same tda chip , doesn't necessarily mean that all Androids will measure similar to this. There is alot of circuitry involved before this tda chip amd after this tda chip. The design, quality if components and implementation of those circuitry combined with this tda chip , decides the performance

[@JasonWW2000]

Do you have any high quality line out converters like the Kicker KEYLOC or KEYLOC2? On my Joying head unit I can get up to 8.0v on the speaker outputs. It also has an interesting adjustment in the settings called Power Conditioning. I can adjust it down to limit the maximum output voltage. Let's say my amps can only accept 6 volts or 4 volts RMS , I can adjust the output levels so that full volume only goes up to whatever voltage I want it to. In its default setting it does allow the volume to go higher than 8 volts, but then the signal starts to clip. I could adjust it to limit the maximum volume to be 8.0v. The same can be done on the RCA outputs which are clean up to 2.0v. The volume control allows it to go one notch higher which is 2.2 volts and it clips. It's definitely a very cool little feature of this head unit.

[@RAW-CAt]

I don't have any LOCs as I never had a HU before. I am getting a joying HU for a review in a week or so👍

[@JasonWW2000]

@@RAW-CAt For anyone looking for an inexpensive, yet high quality line out converter, the Kicker KEYLOC is usually the cheapest and easiest to find over here in the US. It's got a nice flat frequency response.

[@magnuswf]

Sorry if i missed some point, but what I understand from the end conclusion is that my Xtrons with 5xRCAs should deliver decent low level sound signal to my amp?(Its decent quality for my ears now, but it could be because i dont know what I'm missing out on, lol) I read in a Reddit post that if the headunit support the use of USB soundcards, it would be an improvement to have a USB to optical sound card, sending signal to DSP. My friends joying headunit has optical output in the back, so is that a better method than RCA or is it limited by the amp chip or Chinese home brew android software?😊

[@RAW-CAt]

You are correct on all assumptions👍

[@bieldionizio5261]

One question: if we connect this Head Unit to a DSP, a Helix for example, what would be the result? Would there be even greater distortion? (adding the HU distortion with the DSP distortion) I ask because I have a HU Volkswagem RCD340 and I am studying how to set up a good system in my car.

[@RAW-CAt]

The sound quality would be limited by the head unit. With a dsp you would gain options for tuning, but the signal will be "as good as it gets".DSPs are much more cleaner than this hu.

[@JasonWW2000]

If you already have a helix with digital input, and you were interested in an Android based head unit, I would suggest getting one that has a digital output so they can be connected directly together.

[@dsk-xx]

Get an Android with digital optical or coax out . And prefer the Android unit that sends bit perfect digital signal out . Use that with DSP for best performance. Even if you don't find an Android with bit perfect output over digital output, still use its digital optical output rather than RCAs. Even if not bit perfect still the digital out over optical would have much lesser or Nil background floor noise. PS. Optical out may appear lifeless to you although clean and RCA in spite of being not as clean and notes of silent background floor noise, will appear to be more lively.

[@vitalyvalkov3961]

Great video, but very technical for me :) How much worse is this unit than the top line Kenwood DMX908s? And will this atoto do well with sound stream 405 amplifier and single 10" sub in a trunk?

[@RAW-CAt]

Cannot answer the question about Kenwood, as I have not tested any of the big brand head units. In regards to your setup, this head unit would work with any amp.

[@vitalyvalkov3961]

@@RAW-CAt thanks for the response. Are you planning to test them in the future? I wonder if the 800$+ price tag is really justified..

[@RAW-CAt]

@@vitalyvalkov3961 unless someone will send me one. That is not likely.

[@shirazs8882]

I would have liked to see you actually have tested using the rca/low level converters that came with the unit also to see if it was really worse or better?

[@RAW-CAt]

I did measure them, the data is from 11:15

[@shirazs8882]

@@RAW-CAt I must have missed that part, thanks. Are there better high to low converters than what's supplied with the unit or do you think its best to use an amp with high level inputs.

[@RAW-CAt]

@@shirazs8882 best is to use a head unit with normal RCAs out.

[@thunder57]

​@@RAW-CAtwhat did you set the gain to on the converters?

[@RAW-CAt]

@@thunder57 minimum gain.

[@dsk-xx]

For production of the low level outputs that is the RCA, no player would use this TDA aur any other similar chip. These chips are used for the production of high level or speaker level output. The RCA level signal is one step before this amplifier chip. This low level signal is produced after the decoder decodes the track data. And then the DAC chip converts this decoded data into analogue signal. This analogue signal produced by the DAC chip is still very weak. It is boosted and processed by something called the op amps and other electronic circuitry. Now it becomes so called 2, 3 or 4 volts of RCA out . Therefore the quality of the RCA signal you get is dependent upon the quality of DAC chip and the accuracy of decoder chip and quality of op amps used and all the electronic circuitry components implemented in support of these chips and of op amps . I hope you get this as I tried to explain it in as basic and rudimentary language as possible

[@RAW-CAt]

Yes, all of this is very correct, however most likely you are commenting without watching the video. This head unit does not have low level RCA outputs, only high level amplified after the IC. So in this head unit the bottle neck is the TDA chip.

[@flowinel]

If you were to connect the head unit to speakers directly with no amplifier, using just the 15W the unit puts out, would I just connect the speaker wires to it? Is there a downside to this?

[@RAW-CAt]

Yes, you connect speaker wires directly.

[@jasonschreiber6458]

I would like to request a test for a inline digital to audio converter with an android head unit. (Yes I know this one has no r.c.a ir input /output)

[@RAW-CAt]

There is no point in using a DAC if the head unit has a digital output. All DSPs have digital in. I will be testing Android tablet digital output.

[@Triplej863]

What's your opinion on the LDAC in Sony units?

[@TheSFFV]

So this test was done with a high to low using the embedded amp? Did you test the RC'A's?

[@RAW-CAt]

Unfortunately.there are no RCAs in this unit.

[@TheSFFV]

They did not include any that are pigtales and plug into the top row of plugs?

[@RAW-CAt]

@@TheSFFV those are for video and aux in.

[@TheSFFV]

@@RAW-CAt Wow that is a first time I am seeing that.

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

​@@RAW-CAtare you sure there isn't a front channel rca audio output? Every unit I've seen has an L and R rca output in the same jst connector as the video ins and outs, usually the 20 pin connector will have the Land R rca out and a single sub rca out. From the video it looks like it does have that same row of jst pins

[@dsk-xx]

I am reading a lot of comments that the cleanliness is due to this tda amp chip. And also that most Androids use this particular chip and they gonna measure similar. This is not at all correct inference to make. Only chip doesn't decide the cleanliness. If all other Android use the same tda chip , doesn't necessarily mean that all Androids will measure similar to this. There is alot of circuitry involved before this tda chip amd after this tda chip. The design, quality if components and implementation of those circuitry combined with this tda chip , decides the performance

[@RAW-CAt]

That is very correct, however these measurements are extremely close to the ones published by texas instruments, so the performance is close to optimal. The only way it can change is by screwing things up, but there is very little to screw up as this chip requires minimal.extra components. And no android HU manufacturer will put anything extra if it is not needed. Everything is being built to a price point. Head unit cannot perform better than the chip itself.

[@atoto6047]

Thank u for shareing! So professional!

[@chrisselke449]

Would a teyes cc3 also fall into this android player

[@RAW-CAt]

I would say the audio performance would be extremely similar.

[@dsk-xx]

​@@RAW-CAt Only chip doesn't decide the cleanliness. If all other Android use the same tda chip , doesn't necessarily mean that all Androids will measure similar to this. There is alot of circuitry involved before this tda chip amd after this tda chip. The design, quality if components and implementation of those circuitry combined with this tda chip , decides the performance

[@elviscaragea4433]

Why thd of 0.5% at 20w is bad? Doesn't bass use more power and high frequencies less?

[@RAW-CAt]

It's objectively bad. THD vs frequency should be flat.

[@JasonWW2000]

If you were going to use a line out converter it would be best to use a high-quality unit like from Kicker. The supplied adapter seems to be a very poor quality design.

[@elviscaragea4433]

@@JasonWW2000 not my question

[@JasonWW2000]

@@elviscaragea4433 Yes, I'm just trying to help you out. Just extra info. 👍

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

Man this is a master class on this topic. Amazing video. I actually have a head unit with the exact same amplifier chip also, i do have a front R and L rca out as well as a sub out, do you think the R and L out would be as equally clean as the sub out you tested? That seems like it sould be the best option seeing how clean just the sub out was. Also do you know if its possible to ditch that chip entirely and solder in a way better one? lol is there a market for this sort of upgrade lol

[@RAW-CAt]

As chip amps go the genuine TDA is almost the best there is. If you have RCAs out, they should be as clean as the sub out I have tested, as the DAC is the same just with a low pass filter on the sub out.

[@dsk-xx]

@Mr. For production of the low level outputs that is the RCA, no device would use this TDA aur any other similar chip. These chips are used for the production of high level or speaker level output. The RCA level signal is one step before this amplifier chip. This low level signal is produced after the decoder decodes the track data. And then the DAC chip converts this decoded data into analogue signal. This analogue signal produced by the DAC chip is still very weak. It is boosted and processed by something called the op amps and other electronic circuitry. Now it becomes so called 2, 3 or 4 volts of RCA out . Therefore the quality of the RCA signal you get is dependent upon the quality of DAC chip and the accuracy of decoder chip and quality of op amps used and all the electronic circuitry components implemented in support of these chips and of op amps . I hope you get this as I tried to explain it in as basic and rudimentary language as possible

[@Mr.Thermistor7228]

@@dsk-xx that was perfectly explained and I completely understand the signal routing you explained. Since my original comment I have dove head first into audio and have gained loads of knowledge. Reading my original comment back is funny to me now cause that is ridiculous what I thought to do. I am now using the optical output into an external DSP and then to amplifier and speakers, the amount of control I have with the DSP is unbelievable. I really appreciate your comment it definitely helped further understand that path of signal. Thanks

[@tylerstryker96]

Can you please test wireless CarPlay/Android Auto?

[@RAW-CAt]

Test is what way? The music through bluetooth is the android auto connection.

[@tylerstryker96]

@@RAW-CAt I know Wireless CarPlay uses a wi-fi connection, it should be lossless.

[@mumppa]

@@RAW-CAt Atleast some pioneer headunits use wifi for audio when using android auto. I have z9200dab and it does that and it also has specific wifi audio mode. So i would think that maybe these are also able to utilize that, don´t know if it makes much difference though.

[@blondyna3991]

@@RAW-CAt android auto uses wifi or wire

[@dsk-xx]

​@RAW-CAt most head units use bluetooth for the aa or CP connection establishment and then use Wi-Fi for the music or other data transfer.

[@josephhammond2557]

I'm shore there is a RCA LOOM !!!!! Look at the wires you have. Please retest the item once you have found the leak.

[@RAW-CAt]

There is no RCA for this unit, please watch the previous video about the unboxing.

[@cpzmelbs]

Make your own video showing this. You must own one yourself given you’re so certain