How College Broke the Labor Market

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[@PolyMatter]

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[@streblaverba1343]

i used to be a nebula member, but since they ended the colaboration with curiousityStream, there is no more way to pay for your subscription if you don't have a creditcard. As a european with an excellent debit-card banking system, I do not have a creditcard.

[@ianandersen265]

A lot of people in "blue collar" jobs like my uncle, take offense at the term "blue collar" because it gives those jobs a negative stigma, that society has yet to overcome.

[@isekaiguy9113]

That's what post-industrial economic is: native nation is highly educated and do well paid job and immigrants do low paid job. In order for the market to stabilize, trained people who cannot find work can go to Canada or the EU, where there are a large number of jobs for people with higher education.

[@angelgarza7437]

Do you think Nebula will ever have a comments section

[@Vanced-ii3bj]

​@@ianandersen265I understand his viewpoint, but for me, the term 'blue collar' work holds more importance than 'white collar' jobs, which often seem less meaningful.

[@garrettmiller1355]

My high school used to have a construction class, they cut it due to lack of interest even though my older brother couldn't get in due to lack of space.

[@rayraywa]

Yes - lack of whose interest? Often, it is lack of parental interest, not a lack of student interest. My high school had this same thing. A woodworking class and an auto-shop class. Both universally beloved by students, both gone now.

[@user-ng8fk8vn7q]

I imagine they were right: there was no interest on the part of the school administration.

[@mk-chan]

Lack of donation and investment interest

[@xiphoid2011]

As an Asian immigrant. The biggest flaw of the American education is the coddling of every student even when they are making stupid mistakes. "Everyone is special!" "Follow your heart!" "You can be anything you want to be!" which are all terrible advice but yet that's what's engrained in their young impressionable minds. This exact opposite of what we Asian Americans teach our children "you can be anything you want to be as long it's STEM" and no talking back, and you might not like it but it's the right advice. This is why Asian Americans are so successful.

[@limelorax]

@@xiphoid2011 "You can be only be what we want you to be" is precisely why the oversaturation of college exists.

[@ChuckThree]

Anyone in college the last 20 years knows who the real villain is… the university book store

[@hammerth1421]

Oh, don't get me started on corporate rightsholders and academic press!

[@John_Smith_86]

Fuck that shit. I just straight up don't buy them, and studied from my notes instead. Or go to the library and read it there if necessary

[@good-tn9sr]

online pdfs…

[@riteshgupta4002]

cant you just pirate them? like scanned pdf of the book? in my country, I saw some people taking photocopy of books and downloading pdf.

[@nickns732]

I would always wait till after the first test. If I failed, I’d buy the book. If I did just fine without the book, why would I buy it? I also often tried to find an older edition. Most of the time the chapters are just moved around. Total scam.

[@Jlex16]

College becoming associated with work as opposed to education was a grave error.

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

exactly college was about learning gaining knowledge not experience and hands on real world in the thick of the wild market changes in labor and demand and supply

[@relaxedleisure4766]

It makes sense when you look at STEM degrees, but outside of that, I 100% agree.

[@kushalvora7682]

That was bound to happen anyways. College is the only info you have about freshers thus employers are bound to consider their college for employment.

[@stalbaum]

The problem is the withdrawal of actual state support for college AND vocational studies. Florida, not much subsidy for in state public college students. In California? Two year degrees (where the too few vocational programs actually are) is essentially free. We have over 100 CCs. CSU? A couple of thousand per year, with quite a few universities being in reasonably affordable places like Fresno and Bakersfield. I went to SFSU over 30 years ago, but today I would go straight to Bakersfield for a practically - relatively - free four year degree and low rents. (And nice outdoor activity spaces in the nearby mountains.) The UC where I teach? We are a research university system, prestigious and many students don't know what that is, and are very disappointed that we are not a high status trade school. But we know we are doing something right, our graduates do great. (We know by loan repayment rates, we have almost zero defaults and most students pay their subsidized tuition back early.) But you have to be a Californian to take advantage of any of the steep discounts that the state provides for citizens of the state. California takes care of our own.

[@relaxedleisure4766]

@@stalbaum CA probably has the worst/dumbed down (public) K12 Ed in the country outside of the worst areas of the south. Btw, Florida’s public university system is actually one of the best in the country when you take according to USNews.

[@moreanimals6889]

I know someone who got a job at a department store and started talking to the escalator repairman one day, just because he was talkative. The repairman liked him and was getting ready to retire so he offered him the chance to be his apprentice, have a guaranteed job and walk him through the entire process. Lucky him.

[@PraveenSriram]

Thanks for sharing the story

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

stories like those make me wish i had that opportunity but am relegated to college for stem feilds or working for my dad before he sells it and left homeless for whatever future awaits me

[@DennistheMenace2011]

Dang.....!

[@PenguinCrayon269]

​@@Kevin-qj7fp homeless or hopeless?

[@redgrant4897]

Not true. All elevator and escalator installation is Union. So, he would have to join the union first and then be sent out as the jobs came in. In the first two years you don't work with just one person.

[@TylerR909]

Every parent will admit we need more plumbers, electricians, elevator installers etc. But no parent will want that for THEIR OWN kid. It's like the U.S. budget. Everybody wants to spend less. Ask them which program they're willing to cut, specifically, and everyone gets real quiet.

[@Derek032789]

Bingo!

[@hiIamalina]

Exactly

[@cloudkitt]

But there are at least arguments for cutting different programs that allow for the disagreement. Not wanting their child to get paid six figures for a trade is simply foolish.

[@thebestcentaur]

​@@cloudkitt ​​ it's not when those parents either don't want their children (and sometimes, by extension, their family) to have to weather the stigma of not attending college or university (like in China, but certainly not an example to follow), or they have those close to them in skilled labor and they see the often brutal physical toll some of said trades will exact on their bodies. Never mind that a not insignificant number of tradespeople will never see the six-figure salaries you mention, even in unionized jobs, and what is happening to college now will happen to the trades if they are eventually oversaturated too. Can't forget about the nepotism present in the higher-earning trades as well

[@adamoliver4094]

Social security, Medicare, and defense. They along with interest on the debt are over 60 percent of spending.

[@madinkan]

I am a tradesman who went to college. I made more money as an electrician than I made as an electrical engineer when I first graduated. With that said, I chose to go to college because being an electrician takes a toll on your body once you start getting old. Furthermore, I have the expectation to make much more money as a Senior Engineer or an engineer manager than I do as a master electrician. So here is my recommendation to anyone who reads this: Unless you are very rich or intellectually gifted, join a trade after high school. Use the good money you will be making to go to college, if you wish. Nothing wrong with studying part-time. Also, it will be awesome to graduate with little to no debt and plenty of experience in the field. I, myself, did not even need an internship to start working as an engineer.

[@niponcharoenkitkarn2273]

a prudent recommendation

[@Dreadkid08]

Solid advice as someone with a masters degree

[@alexandrial6738]

Thank you for posting this. I got a trade job out of high school (pharmacy technician, requires a license that you can self study for or take a year program). It helped me get out of minimum wage which allowed me to work the weekends (Fri/Sat/Sun) then going to community college full time (bare minimum units to qualify as full time). I did this for 8 years to get my Computer Engineering degree (mix between Computer Science and Electrical Engineering) due to my struggle to get through Calculus and near the end classes were too impacted (not enough teachers/classes too many students) and I had to go part-time due to class availability. Disclaimer: I paid for everything but rent because my parents allowed me to stay at home while pursuing an education. I commuted an hour to school (one way) and napped in my car between classes. I never got any scholarships because I was slacking/coasting through high school. I did qualify for financial aid through FAFSA (government funded program) which covered my community college costs and half of my university costs. Now I have a Software Engineer job that doubled my income, allowing me to fully support myself and save for retirement. No debt other than a single credit card I use for gasoline to maintain a credit score. I have coworkers who got full rides through university and career/salary wise they are ahead of me, but I appreciate the struggle I went through to get where I am today.

[@madinkan]

@@alexandrial6738 , I know well what you went through. I worked nights doing maintenance at an extrusion plant. The pay wasn't bad. With overtime, I made over 80K back then. However, I would leave work tired and all dirty with grease, and go straight to school. My classmates would all be dressed nice and clean while I would have stains on my arms and face. To this day I have my grease-stained philosophy book. No regrets though. I am in a much better situation than most of the people I grew up with.

[@stephanieherman2861]

Solid advice!

[@Highcaloriefighting]

In 1999 as we were graduating. Politicians came to our school to talk about all the incentives they had developed for us kids to go to University. I asked, what about those kids not going to University?" The plumbers, etc. They just glared at me and said. "If you want a good life, it's found at University. " I'll never forget that as long as I live.

[@davedsilva]

The politician lied

[@incurableromantic4006]

Politicians are nearly all from colleges - and they despise those who are not.

[@iangreer4585]

​@davedsilva Of course the politician would lie. As a current undergrad, I don't really feel anything other than exhausted by a good amount of professors who essentially treat us as they would high school students. It feels like just another high school as far as academics go, but I need to have the degree in order to really grt a job. Even that isn't holding up though, as many businesses are going under right now, so what is the point of college? To get a paper that says I don't need to be treated like a kid?

[@redgrant4897]

They want you to take out student loans. That is what that is all about. They are just like salesmen from the hig credit card companies. Big student loan companies make donations to their party. Politicians also get kickbacks and other perks.

[@Likeaworm]

Imagine if we didn’t have an illegal immigration problem. Plumbers would be payed more than doctors. Supply and demand lol

[@CollinGerberding]

I'm in my 40s. When I was a kid, it was "go to college or you'll end up flipping burgers." As an adult, it flipped it "what's the matter mister college man? Too proud to flip burgers?" I'm in the group that regrets having gone to college. I think I would have benefited from taking time after high school to choose a direction instead of just picking one. So it goes.

[@drivethrupoet]

It sounds like what you actually regret is going directly to college from HS.

[@CollinGerberding]

@@drivethrupoet It sounds like you actually think you know my motivations better than I do.

[@drivethrupoet]

@@CollinGerberding Just reading your words and pointing out something you may not have realized you said out loud, no offense intended. Do you think you would not have regretted college if you had chosen a different major or field? I'm here because I have an 18 yr old about to start college...or not...

[@visceralcinema]

Same boat, friend-o

[@CollinGerberding]

@@drivethrupoet I appreciate the context. I was being prickly but I'm over it. The thing you mentioned was a thought, yeah, but I've had a lot of time to think about the the whole thing. End of file, I should have waited before I went to college. I grew up in the era of "this is what you do if you want to be succssful" without being educated on many of life's skills. Gen-x if you will. I can't say I never would have gone to college--in fact, years later, I did get a degree from an institution that has since been shut down due to predatory lending practices among other things (and admit the bias)--if I had not attended directly after HS. I'm 25 years down the line and so much more disillusioned. What does make sense is me taking the time to even think about a career, what I wanted to do, and if I needed to get a degree to do that. But I grew up in a time where you "had" to go to college. I spent five semesters changing majors every one. I got more from moving cities than I did from attending class. And there are a lot of interlocking parts between college and the rest of my life at that time. If your kid isn't fully jazzed about something they need a degree to do, maybe have a conversation with them about alternatives, including taking a year to think about it. I don't have kids so please don't take this as telling you what to do. Just, communication is key and it's the rest of their life. There are many other ways to get life's experiences than a four year degree. I appologize for my first response. I'm still a bit upset about the societal imposition that so forcefully guided the path of my experience. And I still have the loans from the school that was shut down. The first attempt, my parents paid for. Personally, I feel taking that 16K or so and putting me up in an apartment for a year would have been an equal or better use of their money. tl;dr talk to your kid and see if they really want to go to college and what their plan is. You sound open to alternative lifepaths, let them tell you if they have any ideas outside of college. Sorry I was rude.

[@NigelMelanisticSmith]

I think one thing that should have been touched more upon was the physical effects of many trades on the body. The reason my family pushed me to get out of construction and food service wasn't just because they thought I'd make more money, but also because they all have had back issues and workplace injuries that an office worker wouldn't have. Both sides of the coin have their downsides, as office work isn't healthy either, but I think a factor the video didn't mention is that many youth see their parents physically damaged from trade work, and don't want the same for themselves. Not all trade work is back breaking, but a significant enough portion of it is to be off putting.

[@BEEFUS2000]

Thats why I chose college, I didnt want my hearing to be toast by the time Im 30

[@doujinflip]

Right, the trades may prevent you from being financially broke, but there’s such a high risk of becoming medically broke. And it’s much easier to earn more money later on than it is to completely heal from a chronic service-connected condition.

[@jowen001]

Yes. It becomes difficult to do that kind of work after a couple of decades. I went to trade school and don't regret it, but I much prefer my earnings from writing over the hot and cold work workshops that destroys my body over time.

[@slayer2450]

Yeah, that's the same reason my parents didn't want me to do any trades. My mom knows quite a few people in the trade and they all have back and neck pains from their trades. Though I did end up joining the military instead so I didn't quite listen to my mom.

[@Taletad]

Yes, but on the other hand wokplace regulations have greatly improved and trades aren’t as back breaking as they used to be

[@ThisNameMakesNoSense]

I graduated with a dual degree in electrical and computer engineering in 2019 with no debt. Today, I am employed as an engineer and highly compensated. I was extremely lucky. My nephew is about to graduate high school and everyone in my family except me has been pressuring him to get a 4 year degree. They're using me as an example, even though I am not by any means a realistic meter stick. He isn't like me, and he certainly would not succeed in a bachelor's program. I'm the only one urging him to attend a trade school. He likes to work with his hands and see people smile. I don't do that. I spend most of my time running simulations, arguing in meetings, and designing computer systems. He doesn't want to be me, but our family still won't let up. I find it deeply upsetting.

[@ianrau6373]

Hold your ground, trust me, if you aren’t passionate in Uni you won’t succeed. If he’s found his skills, do all you can to keep him on that path. If you don’t truly want to be there I’ve seen so many kids just become incredibly miserable, don’t let that happen.

[@good-tn9sr]

i’m about to graduate in Computer Science this semester. Biggest mistake of my short life so far, as there’s no jobs for new grads. Keep pushing him or he’ll end up like me 🙁

[@jonathandewberry289]

Sorry to hear this because they might just ruin everything. In my experience and observations - IF they push him into that he's going to fail out and can also miss his opportunity to be doing something he is meant to do and will even enjoy, (Trade school / apprenticing whatever it is) where he may well become a damn good mechanic. keeping in mind a damn good mechanic that likes to make people smile can do very VERY well financially, job security wise.

[@Marburg-yw4nj]

Somebody needs counselling. If you are actively looking for one, look no further! I have doctorate degree in medicine

[@kingace6186]

Maybe try sharing this video with him, or even them, too.

[@selohcin]

I'm so angry that my parents and teachers never even mentioned the trades as an option for high school grads. Everybody knew about college and the military, but I never even heard the phrase "skilled trades" until I was well into my 20s. Our parents' generation truly failed us.

[@the_expidition427]

Their parents failed them to warn about the social disease of the vested interests in the money machine

[@davedsilva]

Parents want to brag to each other about what fancy, expensive sounding college they went to not thinking they doomed their children.

[@climbingbear691]

Same dude. Never heard "skilled trades" til I was in the military from guys who were from Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. They asked me how big was the "rock" I'd been living under...

[@Bb-jm6wx]

Truly ! They swear they were the best but handicapped our generation .

[@Bb-jm6wx]

@@davedsilvawhy did I literally just post exactly what u said under another comment! Yup! They just wanted a bragging point to their friends, they didn’t really care about your future . “Trash man” or even “elevator repairman” doesn’t sound as good as “office worker” even if they trash man makes 2x and incurs wayyy less debt !

[@Metica777]

I attended college for a few months then was forced to drop out. Now I work at Walmart. For a long time I felt like a failure until one day I realized that all my friends who went to and graduated college are in basically the exact same position I am just with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.

[@Starbright317]

My cousin works at Walmart. She worked her way up and now makes like $35 an hour. Just bought her first house. Here I am.. a nurse. I went to college and absolutely hate my job. My other cousin went to college and is now a teacher and hates her job. College is not worth it. Sometimes I wish I would have just started at Walmart. Maybe I wouldn't have all this student loan debt for a job I don't even like.

[@ASMRDoodlez]

​@@Starbright317Your cousin makes $35/hr at Walmart, too? My dad just told me that's what my cousin is making as a forklift operator in their distribution center. Although, I'd imagine he has some more responsibility than just that, like some managerial duties.

[@Bb-jm6wx]

Yup 😊

[@bencns8614]

What does this video tell me? The elevator installer profession is chalked full of nepotism

[@lleyton8791]

all construction / blue collar jobs are

[@XDarkGreyX]

​@@lleyton8791it is a baggage of tradition

[@PXAbstraction]

That's what everyone talking about the shortage of tradespeople never mention. There is a shortage, but a lot of them won't hire anyone who wasn't referred by a friend.

[@skyak4493]

@@PXAbstraction And you are not even mentioning that the vast majority of these jobs and 99.9% of the high paying ones are union controlled.

[@cheeeeeeeeezer151]

white collar jobs are equally chalked full of nepotism lol

[@tc2241]

“And when everyone’s super, no one will be…”

[@JereyStonearm]

I understood that reference

[@benedictchinweuba5820]

Boy, that was such a good movie The Incredibles.

[@sya_7489]

"Everyone is special" is just another way of saying no one is (or something like that)

[@tristan7216]

"When everyone is special, NO ONE IS."

[@sriharshacv7760]

I talked to a European guy who told me something. They have a mix of college and trade school. At the end, they might choose to graduate or continue with the trade without too much loss. I felt that is a fairer proposition than college for all.

[@hereticsaint100]

A lot of employers still require a college degree even though the job can be learned either from an internship or from a boot camp.

[@antoniolewis1016]

14:02 The pan to Kumon while saying "for some, childhood was sacrificed entirely" felt like a personal attack. Me and my siblings had to do dumb kumon shit for so many years that it really did steal from my childhood.

[@thenosa87]

You Asian?

[@jaredmackey4511]

@@thenosa87That’s what I would have thought had I not seen a kumon in a tiny Mississippi town recently. I only knew of kumon from living in Japan years ago.

[@jonathanodude6660]

@@thenosa87 I finished both the maths and english program. I'm not asian (as you may gleam from my name.)

[@michaelabraham9233]

i remember walking into kumon and one girl used to cry and be dragged in

[@antoniolewis1016]

@@thenosa87 I am West Asian white.

[@Mito383]

As a heads up, Elevator and Escalator Mechanics/Technician is a position that is pretty heavily involved with nepotism. Thats why so many Elevator technician kids follow in that career. It’s one of the highest paid trade jobs, but also has a pretty high mortality rate. So don’t just assume you can hop into a $100k career without any issues.

[@KRYMauL]

That's kind of the trade-off with all the high-paying trades take line-man for instance. You can make up to $250k, but you can also fall off a pole and die. Hazard pay is a real thing.

[@mrmidwestguy1496]

Honestly, I have no problem with that. Its a pretty natural thing to happen too. How does the saying go? The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree? It’s the way it’s always been for all of human history. Your father was a blacksmith? You will 100% be a blacksmith. Your father is a poor farmer in the middle of nowhere? You will be a poor farmer out in the middle of nowhere. I have a friend who is in a very niche fuel business, and yes all because of his dad. No problem with that, it’s just the way the dice rolls. As for an elevator mechanic/installer? GUARANTEED you could find work if you’re willing to move.

[@RK-ox2zp]

I agree with the nepotism part. I looked at the job in the past but was very difficult to get in. I’m a controls specialist now though with a 2 year degree. Make $51 per hour with about 10hours of overtime per week.

[@nicomyth]

​@@RK-ox2zp what is your 2yr degree in? Just electrical?

[@sethhack899]

​@mrmidwestguy1496 I am the first one in my family to be an elevator mechanic. It was difficult, but fortunately, times are changing, and I have seen many very smart, skilled people gaining entry to the trade. If you score high on the entry test and you are willing to relocate, you will get in eventually.

[@herberthall8082]

This video left out one important factor for people in their 60s and 70s. When I graduate from high school in 1968, the choice was either go to college and get a deferment or be drafted for Vietnam. Millions chose college. It would have been much better for me to have taken a year or two off and worked so I knew what I wanted to do and what I was interested in. I think for myself I lacked the maturity to choose a proper major and to fully take advantage of the educational opportunities in college. I think the whole idea of high school students immediately going to college in part arose from this era when failing to go meant being drafted. I would encourage everyone to take a year or two off after high school to learn about themselves and what they want to do with their lives.

[@bluebird6300]

My father spoke about this and saw this gigantic colossal quagmire in the 1980s and thought that college way US roles it out is a scam.

[@alexcholagh8330]

He's right

[@shakirghazali2890]

And the majority of collage student is woman and young girls so we know the result already

[@Anotherguy1st]

It is, they are selling you a dream. You just don't realize it until it's too late.

[@graeme02]

Your father was a smart man. I hope you were a smart child. Teach your children well.

[@drivethrupoet]

I don't quite understand the last half of your sentence "college way US roles"? Anyway, I graduated from a university in 1998 and at that point it still wasn't a poor decision, generally speaking.

[@ghost21501]

This is exactly what happened to my brother and I. My father had a thriving electrical business. He had the highest reputation, yet both my parents drilled into us the idea that we needed to go to college so we wouldn't have to work had like my dad. My brother dropped out and ended up taking over the business when my dad passed away. I finished school, became a high-school teacher, quit after 4 years, because of abysmal pay, and now drive a semi.

[@drivethrupoet]

I have to take this opportunity to point out - only in the US do we have that much individual autonomy (dare I say, liberty). Another concept we need to rein in from the extremists that want to go the socialist or communist route.

[@selohcin]

@@drivethrupoet That's not even close to true. There are dozens of countries that offer just as much or more career autonomy to their citizens. Have you never lived in another country before or something? This seems like one of those statements that's so off-base that only a really ignorant person could write it. What strikes me is how confident you are in your incorrect beliefs.

[@OceanusHelios]

It wasn't going to college that hurt you, it was Republicans. Republicans get into power and think the game is just like Monopoly. In Monopoly if you had eight players, there would be seven losers. That has to and must change. This country isn't a damned monopoly board and if there ever is only a single winner left? You better believe their head is going to roll. That's has happened every single time in history. There is enough for these professions but the game has been skewed so horribly thanks to conservatives. People claim it as an identity but they are begging to be owned by the bank, begging to never really own land or property of their own, begging to have a boot on their neck, and begging to not have a thriving America like we were in the 1950s. What killed the prosperity of that time when people could own things? Conservatives did it. They have whittled back the anti-trust laws. They whittled back everything and made it so the rich get so fabulously rich and the poor never....ever....get fair pay or an end game that is compensation for their work. That's not socialism, that is just how the USA used to be...when we could have a few nice things and a 9-5 forty hour a week job, with security. Now, there isn't security. Just a machine that we are all part of. Now? Now it doesn't matter what your merits are or how hard you work, you will have less than your parents did. Why? Because of the dumbfuckery of that party guaranteeing that we fail and lose vitality and talent and waste that vitality and talent. It is from pin headed libertarians who think the world is a game of monopoly and 30% of the dimwitted country thinking that somehow that is going to be of benefit to themselves. It's licking the ass of the devil so you have something to eat after it comes out. It's gross. We need to scrap things and let the government intervene. People worry about tyranny and look to the politicians to say that is where it is coming from. It is the tyranny of the banks and the tyranny of the corporate system where we made laws that said corporations have more rights than human beings do. All of this is courtesy of the investors who are laughing at you right now with their offshore accounts while you get angry at the other party for the tax structure. You know, the guys who don't pay taxes and own us all. It wasn't that people weren't talented and couldn't have been put to work in their fields. It wasn't that there wasn't enough wealth to go around. The wealth was claimed and the reason that people can't succeed in their fields or have jobs in their fields boils down not to economics, but because it hasn't dawned on the owners of the land that it would be worth it to them or better for them. People own things and want to be paid just because they own it, but produce nothing. That is where this arises. All of it. Land and building owners extort people just for the use of the land and they produce nothing. IT is time to put it back in the hands of people and put these free loaders to work.

[@arivaldarivald3212]

@@drivethrupoet "only in the US do we have that much individual autonomy" Are You joking? For most Europeans US labor laws are so abusive. Employer can do a lot of bad shit to you, can ruin your life... And US law offer almost no protection. And you call that "autonomy"...

[@drivethrupoet]

@@selohcin Where have you lived? I'm an American, I'm 48 yrs old with life experience traveling, learning, meeting lots of people from other countries. This is why so many people want to come to the US. In the last, maybe, 5 yrs or so, you're all being groomed to believe otherwise.

[@toysoldier6093]

You can *feel* the pain at 14:01 . For the many Americans who spent their entire childhoods refining their college resumé, the inertia driving them towards and through higher education overrides the rational decision to enter a profession that never required that education in the first place.

[@Taffer-bx7uc]

This. But for me it was my twenties. I spent the bulk of my twenties, going to school, studying and working that was it.

[@kingace6186]

Just pain man. This usually happens around a person's quarter-life-crisis, too, so it is very tough pill to swallow for post-grads.

[@HELLO7657]

All this is necessary because of disparate impact laws that outlaw meritocratic hiring.

[@pan2aja]

Never required college degree yet still demanded in the resume

[@econdude3811]

I've had interviewers laugh in my face regarding my education. Ironically, every single day I've worked, my higher level of education has benefitted a given employer more - and I've never been paid better for it

[@callistified]

I used to date this girl in Denmark, who had gone to college for the last 6 years, and she has spent months constantly applying to new jobs with no luck

[@LarthV]

I mean, it really depends on what she did. 6 years already sounds like she did not complete "in time", as even for a masters degree it should be 5 years, and some employers still might see that as a "no go". And if she made her degree in, say, philosophy, it is was and will always be tough.

[@redgrant4897]

Maybe so but she doesn't have 300K in student loan debt. In Denmark University is free for all.

[@Ascalonn88]

Wait a second. I am a millennial European and I am sure Americans were told the same thing. Study, go into a good university, study there too, go into the labor market, work hard and have a good, happy, fulfilling life. Well, like many Americans, we Europeans did this exact thing. We are well educated, working hard, always striving to improve. After doing everything "by the book" I have 2 questions: 1. Where is my house? 2. Where is my Mercedes?

[@ChisomBenjamin-xp6rx]

Even in Africa... Studying abroad is the stigma there.... Like studying in Europe but it's still the same problem

[@prathyushareddy9404]

It's the same in India too.

[@zakmendoza8817]

I think the part of the Just Go Into the Trades conversation that’s overlooked here is the physicality of it. Having friends and family in the trades urging their kids to attend college, the issue isn’t “stigma”, the issue is potentially developing physical injuries that compound over an entire career.

[@noritelewisian2420]

This is exactly the reason why i am happy i went through the route in life i have. i have enough joint issues as it is which can't be exercised away, without doing a career that exacerbates them.

[@commentinglife6175]

Yeah, rather than push only "go into trades," I'd rather see reform in white-collar jobs to remove as many requirements for a degree as possible. There is no reason someone should spend 4, 5, or even 6 years in college studying to be a CPA or lawyer and then STILL have to pay another few thousand dollars for a prep course! Abolish the education requirement and go back to allowing multiyear apprenticeships to count as training. Trust me, someone spending 4 years actually working in a CPA or law firm would know far more than someone who spent the equivalent time strictly in a college setting!

[@toddsalisbury3851]

Another part is the struggle of going back to school after graduating. You get less breaks financially, most college grads are buried in debt and alot are burned out from "schooling". If someone spent 6 years getting a bachelor, another 1 year certification program is more daunting.

[@joey12344715]

This is true to a point. But, with modern tools and safety knowledge, you don't have do destroy your body. You just can't work for someone that will want you to

[@siljeff2708]

There’s also a little a**hole called physical disabilities

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

Becoming an elevator mechanic is very hard, you generally have to be a journeyman before applying to for a training program. You might get 100 applicants for 5 slots.

[@Migwelp]

Nevermind being qualified. That's a trade so small and high paying that it's closed to anyone that isn't related by blood to an active member lol. Super nepotistic. Even then, it's not especially glamorous given the travel requirements.

[@identifiesas65.wheresmyche95]

Yeah I'm not sure where he got this from. Anyone who has ever googled "highest paid trades" find out about elevator mechanics real quick lol

[@JerryDSM]

@@Migwelp people in the trades know how much they travel. I always ask them where they’re from and no way.

[@TexasRiverRat31254]

@@JerryDSM Maybe that's why traveling skilled tradespeople make well into 6 figures, plus good benefits and usually a pension. You slugs can stand around in retail sales and complain.

[@bpv717]

The point is that there are niche jobs that pay well. I'm a commercial glazier and it's a dying field. Most companies will pay for your certifications.

[@Foxtrot_Woof]

Oh... I live this. I was a 80s kid, mid 2000's Purdue grad. I grew up being shoveled the "if you wanna ever be anything but poor you have to have to go to college", "trades and blue collar work is for poors and the uneducated", "college is your only path to being anything other than a failure". I sacrificed so much of my youth and 20's to AP classes, extracurricular college approved activities, killing myself studying harder and competing against everyone. Only to graduate and find almost no jobs and the ones you did find (even still today) are Bach. degree and 5-7 years experience required to make $35-40k-ish a year. I languished in a "degree adjacent" job with no upward mobility and paltry pay increases for 15 years before I found an actual job in my degree field. And still, I don't make what would be considered decent middle class money. Now middle-aged, I'm in that 65% that regret College that I'm still paying for BTW. If I could do it over again absolutely not. I know HVAC, Machinist, Message Therapists, etc that pull in more than double what i make. Hell there are a myriad of high paying blue collar jobs, like the elevator installer, that I have never even heard of until recent years. College might have been the golden ticket to 60s, 70, and 80s Grads, but when you flood the market.... To quote Syndrome from the Incredibles, "I'll sell my inventions so that everyone can be superheroes. Everyone* can be super! And when everyone's super...NO ONE will be."

[@aolvaar8792]

In 1980, I went overseas as a Petroleum Engineer (first job), $100K + expenses paid. Educated in Europe, American Military HS, #1 engineering school. Blanket job offers.

[@adamoliver4094]

@@aolvaar8792 I worked overseas in the oil industry as an engineer in 2010. The pay was excellent...but $100k in 1980 dollars as a new grad? That's pretty great.

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

i was an introvert and observationalist at the age of 8 i saw what college was a bloat load of people going to college all to learn and then get to be hired yes and what do the people hiring look for? NOT EXCESS QUANTITY OF PEOPLE WITH ALL THE SAME MERITS AND QUALIFICATIONS imagine having 50000 people apply at your place of work and they all had the same book lessons and learning from 1 place its very hard to hire just 1 when 50000 want to get hired at your place with the same resume with the same education its factory production even if its quality production its still FACTORY PRODUCTION made so it can produce alot that are qualified and at some point you have too much qualified people to fill jobs that is also bloated

[@RandomguyMr]

I graduated with straight D's and an A in math. Now I'm 26, working as a carpenter, welder, handyman and spray foam insulation installer. I'm making more money than a decent amount of guys I went to high school with.

[@Ookanju]

. . . the sign- of the Rot . . . No College= Homelessness and Destitution- my Ass . . . . . . the fact is- it doesn't matter . . . if you're not a member of The Power Elite . . . or Lucky enough to be part of a Family or Connection to a Trade Profession . . . you're- pretty much Fucked, in America . . . . . . this- is one of The Issues driving the Despiration, and turn towards Extremist, especially Reactionary Ideology . . . . . . Civil War, and Societal Collapse- are becoming more, and more likely . . .

[@jazzlover10000]

What really pissed me off going to university is how we knew the college professors were giving us wrong information and not prepping us... because they were out of touch. The junior college guys tend may not offer such intense upper-division classes but... they tend to know more what they're talking about when they are competent.

[@Orthodox_American]

You seem to not mention at all how those middle skill jobs are not willing to hire people who didn't grow up doing it in the first place. You can have all the qualifications, certificates, ect. But if you don't have the connection they will absolutely pass you over. I have been outright told while I am even overqualified for many positions I apply for, they will not hire me because nobody there would "vouch" for me. I've been out of work for a year applying to everything and nobody is willing to take on people outside the small circle that already exists within an industry.

[@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle]

Thank you for this information. I will use this to help myself and others.

[@flakgun153]

This is the absolute worst part. Blue collar jobs exclude people who aren't children of people who did the same thing. Or worse the union is an old boys club and will do everything in their power to prevent you from getting a Apprenticeship and a job.

[@reachthesingularity]

This is way too true. Education plays a big part in finding a career after school, but knowing somebody plays an even bigger role.

[@johnathan_mcnutt9473]

I have had the exact opposite experience. Only took me about 1.5 years of physical labor to switch to an apprenticeship. That’s all most companies require. Very low barrier to entry.

[@Marburg-yw4nj]

I have a friend in the trades who said for 100 bucks he could hook me up with job in electrician company. I refused thinking I will make it myself with aerospace engineering degree. Boy, was I wrong

[@daviddavis4885]

Shoutout to the valedictorian of my high school who went to an Ivy League uni only to currently be a homeless drug addict, while the random Mexican kids I tutored for English-as-Second-Language class formed their own construction company together and are all millionaires now

[@brent4073]

I went to an Ivy League school and I swear it is the amount of nepotism at those Ivy schools that results in a TON of drug addict dropouts. It is crazy.. Like way more than a normal state school where people become alcoholics.

[@goatsheep4545]

That's the America dream baby

[@aaronscarpa7469]

@@brent4073I was a non blue blood kid who had the academic merits for an Ivy league school. I went to my state university because I feared this fate as a non-nepo baby. Happy to say I’m a well-treated mildly-depressed functioning alcoholic in my 30s, with a very promising career, a beautiful wife, and a good support group. I probably would’ve become a drug addict a world away surrounded by the hippies lmao

[@brent4073]

@@aaronscarpa7469 Yeah, I regret not going to my local state school to maintain more friends and my long term gf at the time. We were meant to stay local in our own tribes.

[@localneo-graphic4647]

I met a kid recently working at a sushi restaurant. First he dropped out of Harvard, then he dropped out of community college, then he dropped out of his rehab program. He was getting by, but he was working 60 hours a week to live at a motel lol.

[@mikejanacone8328]

You actually bring up an amazing point with no one talks about why the trades died the people that did the trades never wanted their kids to do them when you do a job, you have the biggest influence and advocacy over your kids to take up your trade. That’s how things were done in the past.

[@Gheir-xe4mv]

Not to mention the wife was home most of the time in the past, so you could work 60 hours and still see your wife and kids.

[@mikejanacone8328]

@@Gheir-xe4mv no that’s a good point. The two income household is actually a fairly new concept in human history. We never had that before, and it totally changed the dynamic of society.

[@alexsmith-ob3lu]

Many folks don’t even realize that many trade fields have either become extinct or degraded because of the lack of people going into such fields for several decades already! A good example is HVAC for medium sized buildings. Back in the 1950s, HVAC controls was all pneumatics. By the 1980s, we transitioned over to electronics because all the pneumatic techs retired with no one to fulfill their spot; other than electronic techs from other fields. By the time you get to the 2000s, most of the electronic techs have retired and computer techs stepped in from other fields to fulfill the work in HVAC controls (BAS). 2010s onwards we see a perpetual labor shortage in HVAC control techs because nobody knows or cares.

[@rodypony]

My family fell victim to this crap and my poor sibling and I suffered for it. My degree isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. I wish I could sue to get the tuition back.

[@iwrona6258]

what is your degree in?

[@dannydaw59]

Did you research supply and demand for your chosen career before you went for it?

[@jonathan8096]

@@dannydaw59 How is a teenager supposed to accurately & with good judgement, research supply & demand when the numbers are outdated and intensely volatile?

[@theearthmovesagain]

Get a Bachelor's Degree in General Studies like I did. Now there is a degree that is not worth the paper it is printed on, the you've-been-in-school-so-long-we'll-just-graduate-you-now discipline. In-hindsight, I wish that I had been taken in and learned a trade because I see those people making better money and enjoying more of life than I ever will.

[@doctordetroit4339]

Your parents used you as a trophy....it's their fault for this happening to you. No victims, only selfishness and stupidity.

[@fractal_gate]

Applications for elevator installers increased 1000% after the release of this video.

[@AbsentMinded619]

Now’s the time if you want to get in on the ground floor.

[@KeenanV]

​@@AbsentMinded619 I'll just get on when they finish and ride the thing to the top ... Seems faster

[@meganjacobsen3761]

13:09 Don’t forget, if you have too much education, it’s hard to get hired at these jobs. A lot of them want long-term workers, especially ones that don’t have better options than their job, and if you have, say, a master’s degree, they won’t hire you because you’re a flight risk. They’re scared you’re using them as a temporary placeholder until you can get a better job in your field, and they’ll have to either give you more money/benefits to compete with these other potential jobs, or they’ll lose you in 3 years when you find another position. Ask me how I know lol.

[@Gamebuster]

Then just don't tell them you have a masters....

[@GamerFollower]

I make over $75k a year on my IT experience/knowledge and a CompTIA certification alone, my associates are useless and never used.

[@GdFireLord]

Just when I thought Polymatter had made a video about the USA, and then plot twist: It was about China all along.

[@hugehunter121]

Lol, I skipped to the end just to see his transition. Well done!

[@elmemoshu4152]

Man has personal beef against china

[@vedantmungre1702]

😭😭

[@KenMathis1]

It is about the US. China is just a warning case about how bad things could get.

[@alexbie98]

do not talk about china for one video challenge IMPOSSIBLE

[@kisaragi-hiu]

Holy shit, I'm used to 100 people classes in colleges (Taiwanese schools before college tend to have 20~30 students per class, colleges 5~200), so hearing 1200-people classes is just insane. At that scale you're literally no better than KZbin videos! (With the possible exception of joining study groups if you're not an online student)

[@jensenraylight8011]

yeah like, they're telling people that they gonna be good in just 4 Years? no wonder they need 6+ years of more in-Job Training before they're considered Experienced in their job unless if you're already learning by yourself from the age of 8

[@abdiganiaden]

My classes in west coast US region we’re about 80 people in a class and I assumed I would just learn from the web at that point

[@fatboyRAY24]

The average public university class size in the US is 24.9 students. He was referencing an outlier to support his argument, but in reality the average university in the US has only 6400 students and most don’t allow a fifth of their student body to attend the same class at once lol

[@Amaling]

​@@fatboyRAY24sure but those classroom figures are from those bloated colleges in Arizona Florida and Jersey right?

[@michaelwang1730]

as a UCLA student my CS class has like 900 students a quarter lmao many students coudlent even get in even if they wanted to

[@trumpster635]

Honestly I gotta say whoever made this video went above and beyond. I may have to watch it twice with how much information is jam packed in it. This sort of video is why I love KZbin, Good job 👏 👍

[@ShotgunAFlyboy]

I have a friend that adamantly insisted on being a mechanic for years, but after years of getting treated like crap by snotty abusive corporate managers that don't view mechanics as human, he walked away. It's not just the pay, there's something very sick with how our society handles these jobs today.

[@benclark5388]

There is also a work culture that doesn't like spending time training people. Stagnant wages across the board mean that people switch jobs constantly. I am not saying that you should be loyal to your company, but the fact that in order to make progress in your career you have to jump ship and that means experience isn't transferred, it is lost. So, companies use colleges as a way to "train" their workforce. That way they won't have to invest in training. Another thing not touched on when it comes to the trades is that a lot of the "higher" wages for blue collar work comes from overtime pay. Blue collar workers have to work nearly endlessly to maintain a middle class standard of living. There are ALWAYS exceptions to this rule. People aren't averse to doing hard work, they are adverse to doing nothing but work. That's often what happens in blue collar trades. Furthermore, blue collar trades often lack benefits offered by white collar/college educated work. My friend's step-father is a construction worker. He's paid well... when he can work. If he can't work for any reason be it health, time of year, economic downturns, or GOD FORBID he ask for a day off, he just doesn't get paid or have access to basic health care. Blue collar workers bought into the college dream because they don't want to see their kids out of work or suffer an injury that they can't afford to cover. White collar work often provides a way to never face that scenario. I predict that we will see more people entering trades if it becomes less of a risk to your body and health. For white collar work as long as you can use your brain, your body can be busted up so it is easier to weather the storm. You can always fall back on a degree, but if you can't hold a hammer anymore and are a carpenter, you're going to have a bad time.

[@hammerth1421]

Yeah, hire and fire instead of investing in good people.

[@amargasaurus5337]

Alright maybe I'm coming from a different point of view as I skipped college after 1st year, come from a 3rd world country (Argentina) and worked on the family business for a few years.. I recently landed an official warehouse/office job in a car repair workshop 9h a day (10 if you count lunch break) 5 days a week, which is standard over here. So far I've been loving it compared to being independent. I have clear separation between personal life and work, guaranteed pay at the end of the month and overall a healthier schedule. If I ever dared ask a day off (which I'll try my best not to, as the workshop needs me to do my part for clients to get their cars fixed in time) I would assume the default is I'm not getting paid for it. Why would I get paid for work I didn't do? How is that different from stealing? Now if my boss says it's fine I won't complain, but it's not their duty, it's their good will and I'm not entitled to it. I dunno, I think many people nowadays glorify and/or demonise entrepreneurs and independent workers while taking for granted the benefits of a common job and ignoring the drawbacks of being your own boss. Most independent workers have no concept of holidays, as all days are (or can be at least) work days. Likewise, independents get no "benefits" and never get paid when they take time off. Yes, overall they earn more $ per hour, but considering the increased risk and the fact they do the boss's job on top of their normal work, that seems fair to me.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

Do you think only Blue Collar workers work a lot of overtime? The difference is Blue Collar workers get paid extra for their over time. Ask any Doctor in residency how many hour a week he works. I worked both Blue Collar and White collar both work a lot of overtime in the US. The difference is Blue Collar workers are guaranteed extra pay for the overtime they work and White Collar workers may get extra pay for the overtime they work, but frequently don’t.

[@benclark5388]

@@matthewhuszarik4173 Of course not, lol. Overtime happens across the board. But at least most white collar work won't come with the chance of getting a lingering back injury (for instance) that makes you unemployable for future jobs. Also, my fiancee is a resident. I get annoyed with how much they make them work and how they get around overtime rules.

[@amargasaurus5337]

@@matthewhuszarik4173 Honestly I'm a bit unfamiliar with the whole colour collar thing division, over here we don't have that concept that I know of, people I know more often make differences between per-contract/salaried/entrepreneur workers instead To be fair though, I just got lucky to land a job in what seems to be a very good environment. The business isn't massive, it's a medium sized workshop with I'd estimate about one or two dozen employees at most. Bosses work in an office one wall from the warehouse, there's a policy explicitly for closing on time and not doing overtime, and the overall mood is rather friendly. You're expected to do your part, but also allowed to speak your mind and promote new ideas. By this I don't mean to gloat about my luck (alright maybe a little) but to say I'm aware that not every job here or anywhere else has a good environment, so my positive view of it may be skewed by what'l likely an above average employer. Pay isn't above average though, it's around the same or a bit less than any other entry level basic job, but I'm willing to put up with that if it means I don't end up hating my whole existence. I'll always take a good job with average or below average pay over good pay with an intolerable workplace, and that applies to all jobs I've done so far As for overtime.. as I hinted before, it really depends on your employer. Some will pay more than others, some may not even want to pay at all, some jobs will have a clear schedule and some will be a massive mess. Same goes for independent work: you _can_ be independent and have a good schedule, but you depend on yourself to enforce it. The overall value you get from salaried work imposing a schedule on you will heavily depend on your self-management skills: If you're good at managing your time you'll be better off being independant, but if you're really bad at it you may benefit a lot from.investing time into finding a good boss that will do it for you, even if that means that boss takes a good chunk of the value your work generates.

[@zoanth4]

Everyone I went to highschool with in nyc looked down on me for not going to college and joining the military. By time I was 26 I was making 80k a year in 2010 in a a trade field. I was a single homeowner in nyc at age 27. To this day I work less than almost all of them and make more money and still have time to be with my kids. College isn't a scam, but a lot of people get scammed into going for big debt that they will never pay off working a job they never wanted to do in the first place.

[@NigelMelanisticSmith]

I agree that it's a big part of it. I think college can be helpful for alot of people, but there's no reason to go for it if you aren't actually passionate about your studies. If you are only going to college for a paycheck at the end, options like the military and other paths make alot more sense.

[@nishant54]

​@@NigelMelanisticSmith Nope fool. College jobs have saturated. Now is time for technical jobs.

[@theodorsebastian4272]

Is NYC as bad as they say? Crime and security and stuff?

[@peak_911]

@@nishant54 tech is more saturated than you can imagine

[@John_Smith_86]

It has nothing to do with college. They are presumably liberals who object to the military

[@bonneteau2267]

My father is a carpenter and I became an electrician. Both of us enjoy our careers and make a ton of money at the same time.

[@PraveenSriram]

Cool 🆒 thank you for sharing ❤

[@bighoss8793]

You spent 4 years and $100,000 to get a degree. Congratulations! Now it's time to learn how to pour coffee.😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@user-zo2ge3oe8d]

That’s the reason I go to Starbucks. I absolutely adore watching a college graduate pour my coffee every morning. It really gets me ready for the day.

[@Madchris8828]

More like they spend 100k dollars of other people's money from loans that they won't pay back or the government will forgive with other taxpayers money.

[@iangreer4585]

And flip burgers

[@prathyushareddy9404]

​@@user-zo2ge3oe8dand you wasted thousands just to satisfy your ego.

[@jjOnceAgain]

I work in a factory, surrounded by people that barely (or didn't) finish highschool, and I'm making $10 more an hour than my sister who has $100k in college debt

[@giovannimontenegro1162]

Jesus Christ 100k in college debt. What did she study?

[@avva4090]

​@@giovannimontenegro1162 I went to law school and after all of it I sailed past $200k

[@hugohabicht9957]

College does not make economical sense anymore

[@Funkiy]

Great on paper, but give it ten years and the college grads will be making 2x what they’re making now. 30 years and it’ll be 3-4x more, something that isn’t attainable or possible in a trade.

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

@@giovannimontenegro1162 my sister has 150k in debt while i stopped my first year because of poor grades i wasent ready or anything at least i was introverted and observation list so i could seee some of the warnings plus i wasent sure and a host of other problems

[@magical_catgirl]

The problem is (at least in Australia) is every job keeps saying you need that special piece of paper to qualify for a job (even when said job doesn't need anything you may have learned while getting that piece of paper), then when you do have that expensive piece of paper, they claim you are "too qualified" and won't hire you anyway. Can't get a job without the expensive piece of paper. Can't get the same job *with* that expensive piece of paper either.

[@Sypruskung]

Same in my country. I've seen 7-11 cashier ads that require bachelor degree.

[@qjtvaddict]

Revolution is needed

[@MBunn-uf1we]

outsourced hiring agents does that. they have no incentive to actually do their job they just want the money from the company thats they're getting paid from.

[@yuglesstube]

You have a point. I'm in Australia too. I wonder how the younger cohorts are managing. It must be very hard.

[@Alex-ns6hj]

“69,320” Man we were so close by one number 😂

[@TJSpike]

"The best salesman is the one who sold you something without realizing you bought it." A quote my personal finance teacher in high school said. He explained in great detail the business of college and the sheer amount of money it that flows into it. I was honestly disgusted and industry this influential and massive preyed on people, usually right of high school. The young and impressionable. Because at the end of the day, all that matters is your fulfillment you find in life and money. College isn't a garantee for that at all. But it was sold as so. They really got everyone.😅

[@JoshChristiane]

The pressure to go to college during my high school years was quite significant. Every person in my life whether it was my parents, teachers, the school system as a whole or government paid ads... EVERYTHING was saying "you will be a failure if you don't go to college". It was nearly a religious propaganda message, and if you defied that order you were outcast as "ignorant" or "lazy", doomed to work a low-class job. But today those "low-class" jobs pay more than your average white collar position. Markets require balance, and as all my peers headed in one direction, I decided to go the opposite knowing there would be a vacuum. As millennials stick their nose up to the blue market we are quickly seeing a shift to that hard working category becoming the most heavily incentivized. There's a video on my channel where I interview my wife as she basically just skipped the educational part of college and went straight to work in a semi blue collar field, and it worked wonders for her career. We need to teach our children that not all which glitters is gold, and the most important thing for their career is to work hard and adapt to changing industries.

[@nooranik21]

Same man. I went to a Catholic prep school. I was pushed to attend college and it was 100% not the right move for me. I graduated but I hated college and the job I had after. I went into the "middle skilled" labor market later as a bicycle mechanic and I am much much much happier.

[@markmywords3817]

I had a STEM degree but ironically the best part of college that I think is essential for everybody is the humanities subjects. Take any class in geography, anthropology, sociology, etc. and learn a bit about the world and our place in it. The degree I majored in almost never mattered on the job, but the humanities helped me be a better human being.

[@quoccuongtran724]

i got pushed into college only for a STEM degree that i only later find out i should rather drop out to go to another field instead for a lazy bum like me, i would better be doing what i like to do or what i can already do well, like foreign language, instead of chasing the trends

[@AngelaMastrodonato]

I don’t regret going to college but I do regret picking a popular, relatively easy major, communications. I went into it not knowing what I wanted to do, but knowing that I hated math and liked writing. It wasn’t until after getting real world experience that I had a better idea of what I would have liked to study and even that has evolved over the years. I was pushed to go to college immediately after graduating high school and that people who plan to take time off between high school and college often end up never going to college, which we were told, of course, leads to ruin. The first “real job” I got after college, meaning my first salaried job with benefits, was basically an administrative role that required a bachelors degree but I could have done with an associate’s and a smarter person could have done with a high school diploma. In fact if high school properly prepared kids for the workforce, even I could have done it with a high school diploma. After working at that job, ironically, I had a better idea of what I could have majored in. This has actually evolved through the years. I’m almost 50 years old, and just now realizing I would love to go to college for economics but would have been so intimidated by that at 18. My main point is I think getting more working experience between high school and college should be encouraged. In Europe “gap years” are common. Now the privileged will travel or volunteer during this gap year but I feel simply working for pay in some capacity, whether a standard retail job or some kind of paid internship is the best way to use a gap year.

[@mrman7849]

"religious propaganda?" Really? You realize that's just... propaganda.

[@changen4125]

The entire point of SAT and ACT was that it was the barrier to entry. Most people are expected to only take it once. And if you did well, you were encouraged to go to college. If you did poorly or mediocre, then go find a job or go to trade school. There was NO bad schools, because ALL colleges/universities were good. Yes, there were "elite" schools, but all of them were good. The moment the weed out barriers are removed, then the entire system breaks down. If everyone goes to college, then college is just the same as high school, a basic requirement for basic employment.

[@wellacoyoteishere185]

It's like you don't want to say it! It was already an expected basic requirement for any sort of affluent life with enough financial stability to be able to move towns/buy land/travel etc. The barriers are great if you just want whites in for CEOs and bankers and doctors and accountants and y'know the financial power to become politicians

[@nickwilson7796]

I had a college professor tell me he has deliberately made his introductory classes harder because the waved SAT/ACTs requiments at the time were filling his class with kids who couldn't cut it

[@aolvaar8792]

@@nickwilson7796 10000 Applications 4000 accepted 1000 enrolled 500 offered a seat in the junior class 200 at graduation Make it so hard that the best and brightest flunk out. (+120 IQ) I graduated from a #1 University, Highest median starting salary from a public institution in the USA. Only Engineering school, ALL students take the same courses for the first 3 years. An Alumnus paid for my education, FREE. Look at the degree of an 85 IQ graduate. Look at their Debt.

[@localneo-graphic4647]

If you are arguing that only white (and I assume Asian, considering the thinking) can do well on the SAT, that's straight up racist. Black and Hispanic students do worse ON AVERAGE because of economics and culture, that's it. Listen to Thomas Sowell compare 50s Harlem to 2000s Harlem (before it was gentrified) and you'll understand how black America was culturally poisoned, it was a tactic to keep people down after the Civil Rights movement.

[@jambothejoyful2966]

@@wellacoyoteishere185bruh, not everyone cares about your skin color

[@salvador_ii9771]

This was a solid breakdown, your narrative and argument was easy to follow. Good content 😎🤙🏼

[@dv7768]

I remember hearing that this was started by the US Gov't during WW1. They needed a way to determine who would be "officer" material. A four yr degree got you a commission. Since then it have been one major requirement to get a good job.

[@chrisschrumm6467]

There is an elitism I can't stand in my Country (US citizen here). We look down on people far too easily based on the career. Conversely, we place to much emphasis on degrees which confer questionable skills. To even question the system gets you labeled as some kind of neanderthal.

[@John_Smith_86]

Disagree with your second point. Americans look down heavily on worthless degrees, as do people globally

[@iamcleaver6854]

This "elitism" is part of human nature. People who didn't go to university in Russia are also seen as uncouth proletarians. Even if they make good money, they are still seen as lucky peddlers or bandits who deserve none of their success. And to be honest, my personal experience has strengthened this world-view in me. University is more than just about money: going to university teaches one how to behave in an educated society. I respect skilled labourors on a rational level, I know they are the backbone of my country's reindustrialisation, but, subconsciously, I still end up seeing them as different from myself. Decades of underfunding and inclusivity have taken a tall on vocational schools and their graduates...

[@deadlock_problem]

People who are uneducated or aren't self driven to study something are very boring people to just to talk to, the banter they have is very mind numbing. Not that every person doing construction is the above but a lot of them just work and go home and watch netflix all day. It's just completely unrelatable.

[@Marburg-yw4nj]

Proof that the OP didn't go to college xD

[@416to613]

​@@John_Smith_86 Canadian who has studied in the US. What really surprised me was how much people ask about where somebody went to school. In Canada, it's usually more about what you studied first.

[@nickynicky513]

When I was in high school my guidance counselor told me I’d spend the rest of my life regretting not applying to colleges. I graduated in 2013 and the week after graduation started a 5 year Electrical Apprenticeship. Instead of student loan debt I bought a house when I was 23. We should really stop the blue collar stigma.

[@Madchris8828]

But how are techies going to continue sticking their noses up at their "lessers" who built the houses they live in and in most regards are more valuable to society then?

[@yuglesstube]

Agree

[@steampunq6867]

Not to mention most high paying jobs are inherited by family members that are in the same companies. So getting a degree has less earning potential vs having a family member that makes good money.

[@robertwokosin1293]

I spent 2 years in the Bakken working with roughnecks and they were always desperately looking for help. They make 8k a week working 7 12 hour shifts, then a week off so 4k a week all year. I talked to many who became a millionaire before 30,very nice house paid for, no mortgage, 2 new top level cars,trucks,paid off,nice portfolio tucked away. AND, 26 weeks paid vacation a year. There's plenty of money out there if you have half a mind and just a bit of a work ethic.

[@avakio19]

Paying 10 grand or whatever a semester just to socialize is wild. People go to college for a job.

[@John_Smith_86]

Some people do. Others enjoy a fun time

[@johnl.7754]

Some do but some don’t

[@XDarkGreyX]

Colleges had different purposes at some point. My history knowledge sucks as s, tho.

[@systemicbreakdown7864]

@@John_Smith_86 Both end up with a bunch of debt, only one deserves to be in debt.

[@SqueakScolari69]

Education shouldn’t be and should never have become the gatekeeper to a livable wage

[@Pulcion]

Leaving a comment for those who are unemployed undergrads

[@aliensinmyass7867]

You mean graduates, not undergraduates? You're only an undergraduate if you haven't graduated yet.

[@johnl.7754]

More likely underemployed since todays unemployment is pretty low

[@JoseLopez-oz5tn]

I’m an unemployed professional 😭

[@thewetzelsixx9009]

Stole your idea and made my own comment for my situation and people. Lol. But all the luck and well wishes to those of you here.

[@OscarUnrated]

My degree is useless 😤🔥💯💯💯💪🦅

[@heather1506]

The good thing about college is that it gives you more options. I’m 46 with “some college” it definitely limits you

[@tompell2487]

I went to college but worked as a journeyman Tool and Die maker in Detroit, made a great income , loved my job and was always amazed at the young men working in retail for minimum wage because they didn't want to work in a "factory".

[@TomerBromberg]

This video hit me hard. I'm recent mechanical engineering and Industrial design grad from a prestigious university that could only find work as a factory maintenance worker and bike mechanic. I can only imagine what it's like for people without stem degrees.

[@John_Smith_86]

Which country are you in?

[@Abdullah_the_Palestinian]

Business degree here. My life has been destroyed. I am trying to do vocational training

[@lenm126]

Have you tried the utility industry? There are not enough engineers to support the utility industry. You have to do all you can to get a decent paying job. Relocate, change companies, and sometimes take a lower paying non-degree job to get your foot in the door. I did all the above and 15 years later I am an Engineering Manager with almost making $200k/yr with a pension, 457/401k, great benefits and working only 36 hours a week with 4 weeks vacation a year. Oh and sick time also which unused adds to my retirement calculation.

[@Zulonix]

It doesn’t require a lot of intelligence to understand that a degree in French poetry won’t turn into a profession. I took a few programming courses at the local community college. That was an extremely wise decision.

[@HomelessOnline]

@@Zulonix - Same here! I started with Access, then Java, then VB--failed them all--but was determined to learn it. I read the book myself, page by page, until I understood, even re-reading some pages 6-7 times over. It was a long haul but I've never owed college debt. Never got a degree, either. Everybody who works under me has a masters, I still have none.

[@inkgun3993]

That’s precisely why I skipped my graduation ceremony. I was without a job at the time and couldn’t see the point in celebrating my graduation.

[@saininj]

You would have had to pay for a cap and gown anyway (adding salt to a wound).

[@litning123]

Forgot to mention: GREAT JOB, POLYMATTER! This is a first-class video! Very well organized, written and delivered!

[@RGYT86]

I have no regrets about getting my degree, but i certainly had to check my expectations about the kind of roles a new graduate can get. Literally a foot in the door for an entry level job. Im still grateful I get to work in my choosen field, but its going to be years of grind until i get a chance at management.

[@williamdelaporte2341]

I'm not even American but this hit close to home. I just graduated with a Master's degree, and every job I apply has hundreds of other applicants. I've been considering trying to learn a trade, but that always felt like giving up. I moved to a different city for university, away from most of my family and all of my friends, and if I just change courses now then it means the last 6 years of loneliness and financial instability were for nothing

[@anastacioiii4047]

Go to the Air Force, my friend. Job market gets worse from here. If it can be done through a computer, best believe the company is offshoring that job overseas.

[@gnuwaves743]

They said they’re not American

[@RobinTheBot]

It's not a waste. They're training you to value paper, but I need you to know friend being a tradesmen with 6 years of college would be a huge benefit. Just knowing both worlds makes you a great person to have around. Failure is giving up to apathy. Trades are equal and in many cases more important than office jobs, so doing well in them is literally success.

[@ch-yq5yn]

I just started working at Geek Squad at 20 and worked my way up through various tech support jobs and now I'm a web developer making 84k a year without school debt and without ever having gone to college. Just learned myself. When i was making 11 bucks an hour I was also renting an apartment with my best friend for 875 a year and surviving on 60 bucks of food for 2 weeks. Start low and work your way up.

[@lambnj29]

Do it! I graduated in 2010 with a double major in International Trade and German. I was pretty unsatisfied with the field, as well as the lack of opportunity in it. I worked a few odd jobs after quitting, and ended up in a paid Boilermaking apprenticeship. I now have my journeyman card, and make 6 figures. I also have a generous benefits package. It can be dirty work, but the peace of mind from having a stable, well-paying, career is worth the effort.

[@Victoria-mv4hc]

Stem degree here. Grew up with the "go to college or be a failure" attitude from my family. Was told by advisors that my degree would get me rich. Turns out its only good if you have a doctorate. Only 7% of all applicants get into med school, and thats a half million dollar investment if you include cost of living for those 4 years. So when i didnt pursue more college after getting my bachelors, i took a job that pays less in a year than my cost of college. I hate this educational system

[@aaawac2174]

I was told all through high school by counselors that I need to take this and that class to look good ok my college application. Told them nope I'm going into the military and that'll look good on my application in 4 years time. They hated me for that. They had me sign a stupid amount of documents saying I wouldn't this class or that class. In the end the counselors just couldn't break me because I had decided right when I entered high school I was joining the military unlike others who barely even knew what they were gonna do in life.

[@jackuzi8252]

I narrowly avoided that myself, I was lucky enough to have a person tell me my freshman year. I changed schools and became an accountant.

[@rue-for-you-music]

Math PhD here. Turns out even having a doctorate does you no good. Now I’m overqualified from doing anything normal, I refuse to work for banks or military contractors, and teaching is extremely competitive for (usually) extremely low pay, at best middling pay, and a whole lot of verbal abuse and b.s.

[@the_expidition427]

@@rue-for-you-music Unless you join a board or do a leveraged buy out on a business the vested interested to a money machine don't care about morals. The problem with good men they don't seek power

[@prathyushareddy9404]

​@@rue-for-you-musicNSA?

[@DennistheMenace2011]

It is always a good idea to make the best guess at what the labor market will need, say in 5 years, 10 years, and perhaps further out to 20 years. Then work backwards and decide what to major in college. Balance your choice with the overal costs of attending college vs. earnings potential vs. labor market demand, and you may need to compromise. I wanted to major in music but I also realize it will be very challenging for me to land a decent paying job when I get out. So I ended up with 2 STEM degrees which allowed me to live comfortably and now I play in a band as a hobby and side gig/hustle.

[@Zapruderfilm1963]

I got my degree in 1988. It was a very different world back then. I consider myself extremely lucky not to be any younger than I am.

[@masterandexpert288]

I just graduated college. This video hits RIGHT at the issues I'm dealing with right now. Applying to 100's of "entry level" jobs that require 5-10 years of experience only to get no response or have them not even invite me for an interview. Wondering when I'll have to go back to working at a restaurant. Wondering why I spent 4 years of my life killing myself to study computer science. All we can do is push forward.

[@sriig]

and now you have learned the true value add of college...not your degree, not your certification, not your credentials or your grades...but your network. I would love to see a breakdown of identification as an "extrovert" versus an "introvert" and overlay it on the college wage premium graph he showed. People who network well are the ones who truly get the most out of what the undergraduate experience can offer you. I don't think its a coincidence that I suddenly started reaping the benefits of my Ohio State degree from a $$ POV once I had my "late bloom" as an adult and built the social confidence needed to network effectively. In just 7 short years I've gone from an underemployed valet parker to a six-figure career in corporate finance. I feel your pain, friend. You did the hard yards...its not your fault that no one told you what college is REALLY for...

[@doujinflip]

Ironically those “job ready” STEM degrees prepare you least in communication and vital soft skills. If you remain a lonely awkward human, you won’t get in, and if you’re in you won’t rise far. Dismiss those “unrelated” mandatory humanities studies at your peril.

[@John_Smith_86]

Tough luck. You graduated right in the midst of a mass firing for your industry

[@ElectrostatiCrow]

Well that's scary. I'm also in software engineering and the job market is pretty rough for new comers.

[@festusssss]

Did you do any internships while in school? 25 years ago when I was in college that's what most of us did. Summer jobs related to your field of study. Some people took five years to complete their degree but worked full time for two semesters. Usually afterwards you have a more-or-less guaranteed job lined up. I'm curious if this kinda thing is not so common any more. I used to be involved in hiring in an engineering job. Somebody with a degree but zero work experience did not rate highly to me.

[@uergi]

The government has really called things more difficult for its citizens, and we can't sit back and bear all the consequences of the bad governance. It's obvious we are headed for inflation,it is always the poor who take the hit.

[@Briley253]

Amazing video, and thank you for your great content!! All we need is the right advice on how to invest in crypto and we will be set for life, I've made huge figures from trading regardless of the market conditions

[@Woetzel]

Same here, with my current crypto portfolio made from my investments with my personal financial advisor

[@reyes-z]

I'm surprised that this name is being mentioned here, I stumbled upon one of her clients testimony on CNBC news last week.

[@Briley253]

Yeah!!! I started with Maria Bravo in 2021 and now my life is good, something to write home about!!!! I thank God the most He alone made it possible for the opportunity to come my way 🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻🤲🏻

[@Enderle518]

​@@Briley253This sounds so good and I would like to be a party to this, is there any way I can speak with her?

[@mokegabXD]

I love this video, I teach at a community college and I tell all of my students basically all the information in this video. The risks, the rewards, the social implications, and the societal impacts. People should make informed decisions! There's upsides and downsides to "college for all"

[@Casavo]

I got a income based scholarship but my father made exactly 127 dollars more a year then the cut off so it was taken from me. We couldn't afford collage outright but dad did own an old run down trailer on some land that was a rental. He handed me the deed when I got out of highschool and said "sell it, live in it, rent it, do what you want, it's the best I can do." I choose to live in it and get a job as a maintenance man since I had helped my uncle who's a contractor on the weekends when I was in school. I sold it 10 years later and used that money to start building a new home myself on some land I bought with the money I saved while living there. I've watched over the years as all of my peers from highschool work min wage service jobs and rent apartments and be just truly stuck in that situation. My father wasn't rich but he helped me immensely in the best way he could and then I dug my own ditches to get to where I am. Am I rich , no. Tho I will have a new home with zero debt in about a year so I think I'm doing okay. I really feel for folks who are less fortunate than I was as this system is a trap in the truist sense of the word.

[@NY_Mapper]

I graduated in 2023 with a double major in history and political science. Even did a research thesis as part of my program. Couldn’t find a job in either field to save my place. I am still at the job I worked during college, although now I’m working full time, in customer service. I don’t see a way out. It is unbelievably frustrating and difficult for thousands, if not millions like me.

[@brucesteiner7595]

History and poli sci majors are typically heading into Law or politics, I’m sure that you already know this, but many colleges offer majors for all students regardless of employability. The truth is that college is a massive heavily government subsidized business. Thus many schools find themselves beholden to the whims of the governmental elites who sit of fund steering committees.

[@the_expidition427]

@@brucesteiner7595 You seem familiar with the process tell us more and saving this

[@hyperion3135]

Have you ever consider emigrating?

[@kayt9627]

With what your describing you can pretty easily do some educator training and get a job teaching. It’s pretty much your own fault your doing what your doing now. I did the same thing you did and already have a job lined up for me in Albany.

[@spaghettiisyummy.3623]

Ey, you made that video about Syria! I loved it!

[@deankastler1334]

I am graduating from UC Berkeley in engineering in less than one month. I tell kids, that I tutor all the time, to look for other options beyond four-year schools. So many high school children have no idea why they’re going to college and end up wasting their time with a degree they will never do anything with, simply because getting a degree is just what you do. What an excellent and well structured video. I always recommend taking some time after school either with community college or something else before deciding on school.

[@trtl9106]

yup I wish I had done this too. It's so much more prudent to realize "OMG no one actually knows what they are doing (unless they are the select few that do)" and make your own decision and not be funneled into a university rat race like cattle. It's crazy how ESSENTIAL it felt during my time in highschool, even to the point where I saw community college as some loser alternative. I was young and naive and I thought a good uni would solve everything, but it was never about the organization. It's always been about the people, and how driven someone can be. Now that I'm 2 years past my graduation from UCSD with no opportunities of employment at this moment, I regret how I spent my time worrying about the wrong things in life at this crucial point. I don't think I'm so boned to the point of financial failure, but damn. I would've loved to spend all that youth in a more fruitful way. Maybe this is just a canon event for middle class white-collar kids who grew up in bliss

[@adamoliver4094]

@@trtl9106 If you don't mind me asking, what was your major?

[@shaylawulf4456]

@@adamoliver4094they said engineering but didn’t specify what type of

[@Kevin-qj7fp]

i probably need to go to college for aero space nuclear engineering but other than that dream i got nothing else maybe earning capital for that dream as a buissness man but thats also college resume related and qualification is needed as well because if you dont have captial you cant develope and create nuclear aero space tech or just aero space nuclear tech money funds research and development and innovation and hiringi and so fourth but you also need knowledge of the feild so nuclear aerospace tech and buissness to fund it or even innovate on it 2 reason why i even want to go to college but i have failed my first year so i have a lonnnng road ahead of me elon musk already exsists and hes already doing inter space travel so if he exists why not him i can just sit back and waste away my life happpily somewhere else less meaningfully and purposefully

[@relaxedleisure4766]

I graduated from Stanford a couple of years ago (I’m making good money and not regretting my decision to go at all), and told my partner’s younger brother (who’s relatively smart but doesn’t like STEM at all, and is more into things like history and working with his hands) that he should probably take a good blue collar job, and maybe after that go to college on the side as a hobby (because loving history is a hobby, not a job). To my surprise, his dad (who’s an electrical engineer) agreed with me.

[@madbug1965]

I graduated from state college in 1991 with a degree in Accounting and debt free. My first job was supporting accounting systems. 2024 me is working in IT making $119k a year. I have no regrets going to college....

[@mig4868]

I like the theme of balance throughout the video. It's difficult to maintain, but is always worth the effort.

[@Maria-yg3kj]

I hate that I got masters in a stem field and 3-5 years hands on experience just to barely make 60k, can’t afford rent, get taxed out the ash, no longer feels like a “good job”

[@chinggie2]

what country are you employed in, currently?

[@JamesCook76131]

Now i actually agree with you, as you didn’t get a pointless degree, however, i do believe (tons of friends who only have certs have senior level positions) need to focus on what certs if applicable can benefit you vs getting a degree

[@ashmoleproductions5407]

​@chinggie2 you already know the answer to that question stop data fishing

[@AdvocateOfJamaica]

What STEM field did you get your degree in?

[@Shadowboost]

Engineering masters, ten years ago. 70k with no hands on experience. Rent, 690 dollars for a 700 sq ft one bedroom

[@Daniel-gs5wv]

It took me 1000+ applications to find a job with an engineering degree, its insane how worthless degrees have become

[@John_Smith_86]

And that Engineering degree is from...?

[@josephp.3341]

Engineering degrees are still worthwhile, so idk how that shows your degree is worthless. Mine got me a 100k job in my Texan suburb straight out of my 4 year degree? And plenty of others. There are a lot of engineering majors that struggle to get a job though. You need to actually be skilled to get the job you can't just rely on credentials. You see statistics in IT where it is both the highest paying and the most unemployed degree and then you realize there is no room for incompetence. Either you know your shit and you make 100k+ out of college to do something you really enjoy or you never get a job in the field because the market is that brutal. Some forget that there is a floor on how low a wage market can actually go. There's a minimum standard of competency you need to be an engineer. If colleges need someone of X competency to be useful, and they can only find 500 of the 1000 workers they need to fulfill the position, they have a shortage. If they can find 1500 workers but only 500 have X competency, they still have shortage AND the field is over saturated. Engineering/IT are both fields where there are a perpetual shortage because most just aren't cut out for it.

[@Marburg-yw4nj]

You earned a degree in job applications. Be happy, now you have two degrees. One to help you find work next time and one for the work itself

[@Booz2010]

No wonder so many College Girls doin OhEf these days 😮

[@416to613]

​@@John_Smith_86 The fact that you ask this kinda shows the problem. Engineering degrees are nationally accredited. Anybody attaining one anywhere has met a minimum level of difficulty and knowledge that's not present in most other degrees. If that can't land a job, there's a real problem.

[@EmmanuelWestra-eo8wx]

I found this video insightful. I have always thought of college only and now I am in a specials honors program at my institution. I believe this is the right path for me, but I can see how for others skilled trades ought to be a great option. I think overall I have more respect and appreciation for the skilled trades now.

[@bihazards]

Love this. Very insightful and what an excellent introduction to your account.

[@AaronMichaelLong]

As gleefully as I might choose to blame this on colleges, they're not the primary force which is driving this trend, they're just the institution which reaps profits from it. The real problem is the *lack* of entry-level jobs. Employers will simulaneously complain that they don't have qualified applicants for the work they want done, and queue up to the U.S. Immigration system to import qualified workers, but, at the same time, they are shipping the entry-level jobs overseas, or just plain automating it out of existence. I'm fortunate enough to be in the top 10% of incomes in the United States. But when I was starting out, I had opportunities to get into the workforce in my industry which, more or less, do not exist anymore. If I wanted to get the job which started my career, I would have to move to Mexico or India. So, given that opportunities for entry-level work are so scarce, is it any wonder that there is a mad scramble for certifications and degrees which confer an advantage to getting that critical first opportunity?

[@ragul3204]

What do you do exactly?

[@longiusaescius2537]

Extremely true, I don't think poly would admit this though

[@AaronMichaelLong]

@@ragul3204I'm a network engineer and system administrator.

[@wellacoyoteishere185]

Honestly yeah you convinced me. I hate being in a field that's medically important (who doesn't like relaxation for stress relief and boosts in circulation and muscle tension relief) but ... Girl it's so obvious wives started this career. Stuck like my last career of CNA in 40 year old wages and sure I found a good spot but what on earth is the "CEO" position of this. I will always be poor now and tbh I wonder how much massage therapists make in Mexico 👀

[@relaxedleisure4766]

The government subsidising private universities through student loans for useless degrees doesn’t help either.

[@shashanktrivedi27]

Not to forget international students who are great source of income for colleges in English world. They too are vying to enter labour market once they graduate from college in USA.

[@Byefriendo]

At my uni in Australia (UNSW), international students pay 5-6x the cost compared to Local students. My degree will end up costing me about 35-40k AUD (Mechanical Engineer). My international student friend doing Psychology will end up paying over 200k AUD. The reliance on international students, especially those from China who see Australian uni's as particularly good/prestigious, is a real issue here and during COVID when immigration was limited, it really showed.

[@abhinashkumar3161]

​@@Byefriendowow

[@lashlarue7924]

yeah it's perverse. The internationals all come here even more desperate than the average american, then somehow they ALL end up working for companies like Amazon that hold them hostage over the H1-B. It's a screwed up system.

[@AnymMusic]

We've had a similar problem in the Netherlands. Every time you looked up a job online, at any semi-decent wage, it was said you need a bachelor (or bachelor level thinking), and so the normalcy of getting a bachelor got ingrained more and more

[@Jilktube]

17:09 HAHAHA When I was being pushed to go to school, everyone said this number was over $1 million. Even in the official numbers it's starting to drop off rapidly.

[@ianandersen265]

Dirty Jobs highlighted this reality in the 2000's, but people didn't get the message effectively enough back then. Only now are people more involved in understanding this.

[@stevencooper4422]

The problem Mike Rowe left out was the pay was often similar between blue and white collar jobs, however one would give you a bad back by 40.

[@KRYMauL]

@@stevencooper4422 Considering that you'll probably have another problem with working an office job, I don't see your point. Also, you can still have a bad back working an office job. Dirty Jobs really should've talked about the fact that these guys are making 6-figures.

[@the_expidition427]

@@stevencooper4422 The blue collar jobs give a defined contribution plan unless far up on the white collar side in management. Those are called a pension

[@oshwaflz]

All my friends went to college. Now I have 4 years of experience and they have a hard time finding work. I saw the writing on the wall but it still sucks watching friends suffer

[@1965Grit]

This chart fully explains one previous point to a comment I made earlier, college is not for everyone. One of the other issues about talking everyone into going to college is, that your most productive learning age for an occupation is in your teens and twenties, by the time you're 30, if you haven't found an occupation, then your odds of finding something meaningful drops.

[@kyle5555]

At 13:30, that is exactly what I went through. Graduated in 2012 from UT Austin with a business degree. And then in 2016, I decided to become an electrician and had to accept that the four years at UT were for nothing. After becoming an electrician, my company paid for my electrical engineering degree and now I have an Engineer title. I wish I hadn’t gone to UT. It was a waste, and I only went because I felt pressured. I have $150k in student loan debt and I wish I had spent my time and money doing other things in my 20s. Oh well, such is life tho. I am happy now and that’s all that matters. 😊

[@magical_catgirl]

As for tradespeople, the problem is the low pay while learning the trade. The company I work for needs bakers, butchers and fridge mechanics. They don't have enough and are always looking for more. They have their own apprenticeship programs for each. While they may pay well to someone who is qualified in those trades with the needed certificates, during their up to 4 year apprenticeship they pay them *less* then the normal store workers. You could have a 26 year old on their 2nd year apprenticeship working full time getting paid less then the 16 year old in the same store working part time after school.

[@MS-ig7ku]

The reality is they don't want these trainees to advance they want them for temporary cheap labor.

[@Ryan-hn8yx]

Started as a helper for Glazier making 14 an hour in California during the pandemic, 2 years later was making a whopping 18 ( McDonalds was hiring for 20). Dislocated my back, a piece of glass broke on me and needed 13 stitches, and I got a hernia. The leads were capped at 60k a year, and they had to threaten to quit en mass to get a matching 401k. Unless you're the contractor or do a very specialized niche job/ in a union. Construction will use and abuse you for pennies of the worth you bring in. Liked the job though, just hated the pay.

[@dannydaw59]

I was making $75k/year as an electrical apprentice in the early 00's. School was paid for. It's not as bad as you say.

[@brad5696]

@@dannydaw59 That is well and good, however your experience here is the exception not the rule. As of 2022, the median salary of an apprentice electrician is between $41 000 to $45 000.

[@MS-ig7ku]

The term "apprentice" is also often misused I see job ads using the term that want five years experience.

[@DomyTheMad420]

0:05 i swear you point this out only so half of us here went "man they REALLY need to get 100 more."

[@broadestsmiler]

Nice.

[@skyrailmaxima]

I was about to comment this

[@Soriokeink]

Guilty as charged

[@loneIyboy15]

@@broadestsmiler Almost nice.

[@weird_life]

God why? whyyyy?

[@NHSSHINOBI]

Growing up with a single mother, the expectation to attend college was always there. During high school I assumed I would go, but it wasn't until I found myself stuck in low-paying, dead end jobs that I truly understood the importance of higher education and began to take the thought of going to college seriously. I used my frustration and dissatisfaction from those jobs to fuel my determination to make the most of my college degree. Went to CC, undergrad and moving to grad. I couldn't take working at McDonald's 😂 I strongly agree with you and believe that trade schools, vocational schools, and technical institutes need to enhance their outreach efforts to high school students and reshape their image to one of prestige. This lack of perceived prestige is a significant barrier that hampers their success. Additionally, networking plays a crucial role; without connections in the industry, gaining entry into these fields can be incredibly challenging.

[@Pantechnicon]

I went to college after becoming disaffected with the military (which I enlisted in right after high school). I never finished undergraduate studies, but still went on to establish a well-paying career in IT, which I've been at for 30 years now, solely on the strength of innate technical talent and acquiring industry certifications. Still, I struggle with feelings of personal failure and imposter syndrome in my associations with my spouse and my brother (both attorneys), as well as extended family, friends, church congregants, etc., virtually all of whom have bachelor's degrees at the minimum. In fairness, no one in my circles criticizes my lack of formal education, but that doesn't stop my self-consciousness about having "achieved" so little, comparatively speaking.

[@mudcatfrank7537]

This problem started in the 1970s! Both my husband and I have Bachelor's in Education (He in history, myself in art) but didn't do very well with student teaching. It was nearly nine years of unemployment and temporary jobs until I had a government program to go to technical school for printing and my husband for Industrial maintenance. Our financial fortunes increased because of that. We took vacations driving around the nation visiting national parks, museums and just looking at scenery. This satisfied our interests in history and art. Going to major art museums like in NYC and Boston was thrilling. A few years back I came across a book called "The Overeducated American" from the early 1970s predicting many of these issues.

[@MichaelWerneburg]

Agreed, it's been in place forever. I entered university the first time in 1989 and had classmates questioning their decision when they could make the same money without a degree. After graduating, it took me years to earn more due to having the degree. And I have peers who are still paying off student debt thirty years after graduating.

[@mascan7905]

And of course, in the middle of explaining why college isn't the only route for everyone, an ad for a college comes up.

[@DuncanWilliamsOFFICIAL]

You underestimate a scammer's will to take someone's money legally.

[@chaosfenix]

I feel we could address this by merging the two systems. Traditionally trade schools should be somewhat structured and have outputs similar to a community college with 2 years associates degrees. It is just that your degree could be as an electrician, mechanic, plumber etc. We could also require some adjustments to public colleges in order to receive public funds. I think it would be a really good idea if classes that are gen ed in the first 2 years were required to teach a trade skill. Anything really and they can be related to your overall degree anyway. Want to be an electrical engineer then your gen ed classes could be related to being an electrician. If you are learning any engineering job then maybe you could take one of the many mechanic trade courses out there. You want to get a degree in nutrition then maybe your undergrad gen ed courses could be in being a chef. You want to do biology or medicine then your undergrad could be as a dental technician or as an EMT. I also think we could put rules around associates degrees. 1. I think all schools should be required to have them. 2. I think they should be automatic. You shouldn't have to apply for it or go through a separate process or something in order to get a piece of paper that says you completed 2 years. 3. I think the qualifications for a given associate degree should be relaxed. They should have specializations of course but I think the general education Associates should be a catch all that would apply for anyone who completed 2 years of college coursework with a passing grade. In this way if someone dropped out of college then they would hopefully have at least their associates which would transfer easier than a transcript. They would also potentially have learned a trade while they were there so that if they did need to drop out of their electrical engineering courses they could at least get a position somewhere as an entry level electrician.

[@ender7278]

What you're describing sounds like CEGEP. I went and it was quite nice. Not exactly what you have in mind, but it does put the trades and the universities under the same roof for a bit.

[@crackshot4797]

College can be a good investment if you have a plan. In my case, I knew what I wanted to do, the GI Bill covered my undergrad, I took out loans for grad school knowing they qualified for forgiveness, I had pre-existing experience in my field from the military... and, honestly, luck and timing were on my side. Though it took me a couple years to onboard with my employer (just the nature of the work I do), the COVID pause on loan repayments really worked out in my favor.. the month I got my first paycheck was the month loan payments resumed... It worked out for me, but I can tell you this: college isn't for everyone, and if I would've gone right after high school, with no experience, no money, and no plan, I don't think I would be anywhere near where I am today.

[@me0101001000]

I'm a PhD student in Materials Science, and I've TA'd for a couple of classes. The students who went to CC before transferring to a university consistently do better in class for a few reasons. Maturity, work ethic, diligence, and they also know how to struggle. I'd go as far as say that half of the students who study engineering shouldn't be doing it, not because they aren't smart or hardworking, but they're clearly not interested in the field. If you study something you don't care about just because you want a fancy job with a nice salary, you're going to resent your life. Do it because it's genuinely something you want to do.

[@josephpurdy8390]

All degrees should have 5 mist read books. These were written by those whom are accomplished in that specific field of study. A majority of professors, and alumni should be in agreement about the quality of evidence. That is presented in these written works. A curious individual with a desire to learn should read them. If this person can manage to read all of them, and have understanding of the subject. That person now ask some insight to this field of study. These volumes should require explicit knowledge to fully understand. These are what graduates consider to be must reads. That inform the reader with accurate summarizations, cover nuance, essential tips, how to research, and most importantly challenge you. You will know before finishing the 5th book. If its the right path for you. It will save a lot of time, and expense. Yet, to my knowledge this isn't implemented as a filtering method. Those most eager to learn the subject will get a good head start.

[@rue-for-you-music]

I’m a calculus professor and I have to say that most of the students have zero interest in STEM, are cheating on almost everything, have skills stunted at the middle school level (at most) and are only there because somebody told them they need a STEM degree to make money. I’m going to resign at the end of the semester.

[@mourneris]

Many local community colleges in my area offer vocational/trade programs so that people can attend college (socially) AND get a trade cert. Some have even developed full 2 and 4 year programs for trades which prepare people to potentially transition from being a full fledged electrician to an electrical engineer in power system or electrical infrastructure. Universities would benefit from offering similar programs so that people can "go to college" but have additional options to play with without the stigma. Part of the issue is most use financial aid and once you've gotten a bachelor's with your fin aid, it's hard to have schools justify paying you to do a trade program since you already have a degree (even if you don't have a job).

[@DieselMech]

I took up a trade in off-road mechanics after not finding work after graduating college, the skid who huffed paint in high school already has his snapon box paid off.