How Could They Forget To Show This Moment? | Rings of Power

[@sirbooksage]

There are moments in the journey of a character that are important to show. Leave it to RINGS OF POWER to completely forget to show one of those moments in episode 6. Let me know if you caught the moment the show didn't seem to think was important enough to even show.

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

great take of this topic! 👏 i have read Tolkien books since 90, and i have read all of them many times! this show is absolut dumpster fire, there is just none of Tolkien in this. how stupid these showrunners are paid 250M just for names and places. dialogue is trash, there is more holes than plot. acting is meh, costumes are worst than some amatour theater. filming is bad, they made lot of mistakes (Galadriel sword training, using show motion and blur vision when its not needed). GCI is sometimes avarage and sometimes just awful. actors are paid less than 30k episode. where is that money going???? for propaganda and paid good view from chill media? or is this somekind money laundering sceme?

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

sorry for bad english...

[@bawsack69]

@@jarnobrofelt1891 dude, you have spellcheck

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

@@bawsack69 really? I didnt know that i have spell check for english in Finnish made old phone. 🤔 Can you show me where i have it?

[@RAWNERVZ]

I think you're missing something even more deeper which is the globe I see the door supposedly sit down on Middle Earth the first time again the first time he did and although it makes more sense when they go there to establish a kingdom to do that I would have loved to see that put their maybe just as a another gesture or something they can change a certain degree of things as long as they connect the story but what's the point of making us feel like this if it's not for extreme fans of the books They can't base lore off of a movie and that's what they're trying to do is Carry on from the movies circle back they for example use the Peter Jackson look for sauron at least in the prologue and I honestly wonder if they changed anything because it's.

[@emileelynette3158]

Someone wrote down "and then Isildur throws a partially eaten apple into the ocean for no reason" - executives saw this in the storyboard and said "good let's film that" and then everyone watched the proof edit and kept it in there. These are the same creators who didn't think to include a scene of the Numenoreans landing on Middle-earth, and this tells us everything we need to know about why Rings of Power is technically and subjectively bad.

[@zaxx]

This comment ⬆️ is what I've been trying to say, but couldn't articulate correctly. Perfect comment 🙏

[@katraapplesauce1203]

translates to *i wanted to see numenoreans land on middle earth and i personally was really hyped for that and created an expectation that i wanted fulfilled so now iam big upset that it didnt happen/wasnt included in the way i wanted and ill just make that the show runners faults by pretending its a super important lore event that should have been included* Yeh, would have been super exciting to see a bunch of dudes arrive at a coast to then step on land with nothing important happening. I too remember fondly the trek of Aragorn and the Gondorians and when they are shown to cross osgiliath on the way to mordor and their path through ithilien as the entire narrative tension of the climax of Lotr died as we follow this trivial event.

[@emileelynette3158]

Naw - I’m pointing out a contextually odd scene that adds nothing to narrative or character (throwing food overboard during a sea voyage), versus a scene that would have a) given payout to previous scenes that set up going to Middle-earth as a big deal, b) foretold significance to landing on what (I presume) will become these characters’ future kingdom, and c) established better locational transition between sailing on a boat, to a hostage situation in town, to suddenly galloping horses, which was a jarring mess. I didn’t say anything about lore - this show isn’t about lore and I don’t expect it to be. But for millions of dollars, I expect it to be internally cohesive and not like, straight up dumb. (People surviving a volcanic eruption from close enough that the trees do not is dumb. Being a great warrior but giving your sword to a child while enemies are hunting you is dumb. I could go on.)

[@SaithMasu12]

The only reason i could imagine why they didnt show the Numenors land in middle earth is to not take away speed and tension that built up over the episode, when the orcs are about to attack the village.

[@zbynektrajer2735]

Well, the first one is probably cheaper to film :)

[@FlyfishermanMike]

Time and distance are meaningless in this show. Everyone fast travels everywhere. The could have dealt with this a number of ways but the meteor seemed to sync the timelines. This is yet another indicator that the writers have no idea what they're doing and never should have been handed such an epic and beloved world.

[@namenloss730]

Yes time if crazy in this show. The elven tower grew dozens of meters in what appears to be 2 days. The sociopathics halflings travelled hundreds of miles in the time. Elrond and the old lady go to kazat dum and back in a chill stroll with no equipment. The numenorians travel what they say is 2 days journey in a day. As far as we are told, about a week has gone by in the show.

[@sirbooksage]

@@namenloss730 Gladriel has gone from one of the world to the other and back, with a multi-day (a week?) pit stop in Numenor. Elrond walked from Lindon to Eregion to Khazad-dum, back to Eregion, back to Khazad-dum, then back to Lindon, and all in the same amount of time it took the orcs to go from the neighboring village to Tirharad.

[@namenloss730]

@@sirbooksage sorry, i block out the stupider shit so i forgot about that nice little swim she had. My friends keep defending that shit as "ellipses in the story". But, they also love how the "lore is presented" so ... episode 6 is ~70 minutes long. I have a list of continuity errors, editing errors, narrative nonesense, idiotic BS, teleportations, etc... longer than that. By the way, in terms of dumb stuff, when the numenorians are charging at full speed towards the village (for reasons unknown since they didn't know the orcs were there). I have a question for you: what direction are they coming from ? And is that consistent with the sun rising behind them?

[@dlevi67]

@@namenloss730 They obviously followed the same type of path that Halbrand followed to get in front of Adar in the chase. "Go East by the West" - as Christopher Columbus would have said.

[@davfree9732]

I guess they took Babylon 5's approach. Any form of travel moves at the speed of plot.

[@12SPASTIC12]

This is like having the Fellowship sail past the Argonath and neither Aragorn nor Boromir reacting to it at all.

[@avermanbramblebuck5220]

Except they know the thousands of years of history associated with the Argonath, whereas Isildur is seeing middle earth for the first time! His concerns are to the battle ahead and what awaits at home, he has no notion of the future which lies ahead for him in Middle Earth!

[@harvain731]

The Peter Jackson Movies did skip some key dialogue moments. Everyone but Aragorn should have been cowering and showing respect when they passed the Argonath as then Aragorn could state about not being afraid, that the Heir of Isildur, Anarion and Elendil had nothing to fear there and long he had been wanting to look upon the Argonath. But Peter Jackson's Aragorn was an unwilling Heir of Isildur & Elendil. He did his part in the North but that was it. He was content not being King but would do his part to fight against Sauron. It's only through events which "force" him into Leadership moments and realizing he must accept his destiny. Completely different to the Aragorn of the Books who not only wanted to be King but YEARNED for it. He knew that much would have to occur, likely much sorrow and grief but he was willing to face it. Aragorn in the Books was even willing to risk what could have been a Civil War or Kin Strife as the previously happened in Gondor during the Third Age but only once Sauron was no longer a threat. This was to ensure his Kingship after the Banner of Gondor & Token of House of Elendil was displayed when he arrived borne upon a wind to the Kingdom of Gondor as he even states himself he won't allow his claim to be challenged when asked by Eomer on it.

[@abrahamacevedo5302]

My take on this and all the other obvious contradictions on the screenwriting: with each chapter I'm increasingly convinced that the Rings of Prime has hired several scriptwriters for different scenes, and that they do not communicate with each other to coordinate the whole picture and have a bare minimum of coherence in the final result.

[@sabineb.5616]

Abraham Acevedo, we actually talked about this on another KZbin channel which is meant for aspiring writers and hosted by a writer. And we came to the conclusion that there are most likely a bunch of writers at workwho have different tasks. And some of them may be more competent than others, and the coordination seems to be rocky to say the least. We also agreed that the writer who had the job to conceive Adar's character and his story line seems to be actually quite good, and he or she managed to create an intelligent and even moving character whose motives are plausible. Unfortunately that doesn't really save the episode because everything else is so inept and implausible. And it's also very likely that the editors aren't very competent, and they may have left important material on the cutting floor while leaving in scenes of no importance whatsoever. It's possible that there are simply too many people working on this show, and not all of them are are up to the tasks.

[@johnglue1744]

My brother and I were discussing the same thing.

[@sirbooksage]

@@sabineb.5616 Yes, Adar is surprisingly an interesting character with a story line that seems to have real motivation. He's actually the most compelling character in the show at this point. Sadly, he's lost in a sea of mediocrity and disjointed writing overall.

[@sabineb.5616]

@@sirbooksage , I agree - and there's some hidden irony that the most compelling character of this show is an elf-orc or orc-elf who is the beloved leader of a bunch of orcs - pardon - Uruks, while the real elves are either insufferable and sometimes even downright nasty, or they are petty politicians with really silly saloon style hair-dos. This show is so topsy-turvy that it becomes fascinating for all the wrong reasons. But Adar's conversation with Galadriel has actually moved me, which is a first for me as far as this show is concerned. So far I didn't really care for any character. There must be something wrong with me, but I am rooting now for Adar and his Uruks and their quest for a homeland. And I cheered when Adar's landscaping project was successfully initiated and the eruption of Mt. Doom started to transform the Southlands into a place which is much more suitable for the needs and the livestyle of Adar's Uruks. I hope that they will live in their promised land happily ever after - or at least for a while - until the second dark lord will set up shop in Mordor and their days as free and proud Uruks will be over.

[@ChristmasLore]

@@sirbooksage , it's sad when the best written character, and the one you care for, is supposed to be a vilain in the show, meanwhile, the heroine is absolutely unbearable.... 😓

[@GreatGreebo]

This series is absolutely baffling in its ability to continually fail in epic proportions. It makes me incredibly sad that Professor Tolkien’s beautiful world has fallen into Amazon greedy, grubby hands. *”There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery “* -Treebeard

[@wicklunda]

They are taking such liberties with the timeline. At Isuldur’s birth, the rings of power had existed for about 1500 years already. How and why they place him in pre-Mordor times is mind boggling.

[@adrianbardan782]

mmm... I guess that's why they're building the elf forge overnight. 🤔they're trying to catch up.

[@harvain731]

They can't use part of the timeline anyway due to not having the Rights to the Silmarillion & Akallabeth which is Elendil's own account of Events. Rings of Power probably can't even use the name Annatar, as for example, the Lord of the Rings Online can't use the name Annatar and has the same Book Rights as Amazon.

[@Kaitonel]

I don't mind condensed storylines in this way too much, some things need to be compressed and adapted to fit TV. If they had not done this, they would have had to do major time jumps on an even larger scale than House of the Dragon has done, which for some is quite jarring. So it would have been a risky move to do. House of the Dragon has done it quite well, so its proof it can be done. Not that this show has any kind of concept around Time and Distance. The issue we have with the way they have condensed things is that it destroys actual lore to make it work. For all the changes PJ did to the Lord of the Rings trilogy (not Hobbit) they were done by keeping in line with the lore still playing out quite well, and keeping the tones and themes respectful of Tolkien. Rings of Power just changes lore to fit their way of storytelling, without any respectful kind of compensation for the changes. It is nice to have Elendil and Isildur early on (not that I like them as characters in this anyway) instead of having to wait til season 27 and 15 time jumps later. Having him taking part in major plotlines and places he would not have been at are an issue though. As said in the Vid, by having him looking around and admiring the place that heart of his kingdom will one day be is at least compensation for having him there, it is respect for the timeline even due to the change. Except we get a silly little line later on about how he "likes the mountains" of Mordor.

[@katraapplesauce1203]

Yeah, see when you have little discconected stories and notes as source material that span thousands of years of really boring stuff you gotta take some creative license to condense the happenings down and turn them into something you can actually develop as a cohesive narrative and story with protagonists and subplots and mainplots that dont span 1500 years. Tolkien estate and society said its cool and gave it all the thumbs up for the script and the lore adaptation.

[@shiroumxm2052]

@@katraapplesauce1203 it´s garbage

[@RamblesBrambles]

I honestly wanted this to work..I set my expectations very low..so that I could be pleasantly surprised..oh boy! ..this isn't just a travesty against Tolkien..this is a slap in the face for everyone who ever grew up with a believable fantasy world

[@katraapplesauce1203]

Its not though, The tolkien estate and society disagrees with you. They think this is more worthwhile as adaptation of Tolkiens work than Lotr was by peter jackson (which is why he was barred from working on this) Maybe you shouldnt *assume* in the name of tolkien?

[@cmdrvex]

A day's journey up the river and another day's horse ride over land, to arrive at this tiny village in the nick of time?? How did they know where to go? Did they charge their horses 15 abreast for the entire distance? How many times do I have to suspend my disbelief to accommodate this story telling? You're right. Isildur is portrayed as a moron.

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

and how did they get all those horses on middle-earth? they show that there was 10 horses on 1 ship, and even that is too much for ship like that! 😂

[@Syaniiti]

@@c.krueger9530 Nah, the rest of the horses and men and armour and supplies were simply delivered via Amazon Delivery where they were needed.

[@Syaniiti]

"A day's journey up the river and another day's horse ride over land" Only to arrive after just 1 day in precisely where they were needed. The show can't keep its own story straight even within a single episode (see episode 1 the Southlands moving). It is the most incompetently made show I have ever seen a full episode of.

[@cmdrvex]

@@Syaniiti I don't think the men of Numenor historically rode horses either.

[@jarnobrofelt1891]

@@Syaniiti and when they charge in dawn, sun is behind of them. So they are attacking from east??? Doesnt make any sense!

[@m.b.boyack2228]

Tolkien fan, but not a scholar. Working out which part in this episode has the most atrocious writing is difficult, but the worst offender, as it has the most impact on Amazon's overall current story, would have to be, Adar giving the 'Spillway Sword-Hilt Key' to 'Waldreg'. Instead of trusting one of his devoted, loyal 'children' Orcs, to complete the task of activating the key and opening the dam spillway. The culmination of all their months of work and desire, including locating the sword-hilt key itself, Adar instead, entrusts the job solely to a human barkeep he met a week ago and does not know, (approximately as there is no timeline). Eating a pyroclastic cloud would have to come second. Great analysis. Cheers.

[@joewebster1]

I think you missed the part where they said Waldreg was actually Sauron, and this was his plan all along! 😂

[@billymiskimmin]

I feel like we have more to learn about Waldreg. We don't know how he came in to possession of the sword in the past. We know he had it at one stage because of the scar on his arm. There might be more to his character yet. But yes, I thought about this too

[@arthurballs9632]

Waldreg had it hidden under the floor of his barn in episode 1. Can't remember if we were told how and when he got.

[@danguillou713]

Oh, but the sword can only suck human blood dontchersee. So neither Adar or a top orc could do this. Or maybe they assumed the vampire sword would suck the user dry and that's why they needed a human patsy to turn the key.

[@onbored9627]

Perhaps orc blood won't activate the sword. Only human. We never see Adar activate the sword either, and I imagine his blood is still considered elven even though he's corrupted. Only waldreg and theo. Just a theory though.

[@Perry_Wolf]

I'm actually a little surprised you can ask this question. Sticking with Isildur, these writers previously had him hearing his name called from West Numenor and him _needing_ to go West, reason unknown, so much so that he sabotages his career as a sailor so he can pursue this, only to have him completely change his mind, I believe in the very next episode, when he hears the Queen has decided to take Galadriel to Middle Earth. He then tries to stow away on the boat where he and Kemen, in their tussle, ignite the wine or oil which so happens to have nitroglycerin levels of ignition. Then, lol, with everyone rushing out to see what happened, meaning no-one was in the harbor except these two people now swimming back from the direction of the sabotaged boat, are taken at face value of their lie that one was out fishing and the other saved him. The same writers who set up the fact that Galadriel and Míriel are headed to Mordor to investigate and find if the orcs are there. There was no time constraint at this point for them to be rushing there, yet after they land they mad gallop the horses to get to the Tower of Ostirith when they more likely would've been conserving the horses at this time, because to them there was no urgency as yet. Where in all this do you see evidence of writers that could possibly clue in to the geo-location of Isildur's future ruling, let alone set it up.

[@olafbuddenberg4787]

They "forgot" because the writers are hacks and they don't care about Tolkien's Legendarium. For them it's just a vehicle to transport their agendas.

[@AnemoneEnemy]

These writers haven't dropped the ball. They have dropped any sort of semblance of a connection to the story they claim to be adding to.

[@namenloss730]

@@AnemoneEnemy They didn't just drop the connection to the story they claim to be adding to, they dropped any semblance of internal consistency to their story. Continuity is shit, motivations are all over the place and change from episode to episode, etc... Galadriel goes from telling halbrand that revenge is bad, to telling Adar she wants him to spend eternity seeing his children get slaughtered, to wanting to kill him because he calls her a bitch. Editing is bad, we see the elven tower blow up 3 times. Logic goes out the window from the start.

[@namenloss730]

For the boats, the worst part is not the C4 in the lower decks It's the boats themselves. CGI Boats that we are told can carry 100 men with 100 horses and supplies. CGI, which does not suffer from the constraint of physical realism, or building cost. Well let's make boats that look cramped with 20 people on the deck and show that there is no room for horses or men on the lower decks. It's not like you could easily just render bigger boats, and more boats. Rendering a big boat, a small boat, or a fleet, is pretty much the same cost

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@AnemoneEnemy In the last episode, everything, and I mean _everything,_ depended on incredibly coincidental things to happen. Like Elrond hearing some dwarf children sing a song and him immediately knowing that this is the codeword for the incredibly secret mine shaft. I guess that is why the dwarfs teach their childen the super secret codeword as a song. The writers did not drop the ball. They dropped all the balls that ever existed on eart, the manufactories where all those balls were made and the people who made them.

[@emblazen6442]

The writers don't care about the stories around what they are writing, just wanting to write their own story.

[@themsuicjunkies]

Well thats true but are they doing that? It seems to me the story they are telling makes no internal sense.

[@Gentamoru]

They just wanna write wamen lord of the rings

[@buddylord3020]

Isildur is a man, of a particular hue, which people who write allegories that have been presented in this show hate. They don't care about his story. This is all about not-Galadriel and Not-Legolas.

[@MrSneaksful]

Don Lemonlas

[@daniilknigin8713]

Ironically, Guyladriel turned out to be the dumbest character in the show, so dumb in fact she became borderline evil. This sort of writing should be illegall. When CW does this it's bad enough. Like, I've seen batwoman, it was laughably bad. Now this is insultingly bad. It insults the memory of J.R.R. Tolkien, it insults his vision, his ideals and it takes us all for idiots. This is not "don't like it don't watch it" type of situation, this is taking a piss on a grave type of situation, burning a flag etc.

[@mikestanmore2614]

Ah, you've forgotten that RoP isn't about Tolkien's characters.

[@danguillou713]

Sure, I can explain. Because they’re writing by the seats of their pants. They are focused on the scene where the numenorean cavalry rescues the southland villagers. They are barely thinking of what happens next episode, much less anything in coming seasons. Isildur with horses. Numenoreans riding. Southlanders losing the fight in a few stages, so that they are in desperate peril. And now: numenorans ride in and kick ass. That’s all they thought, that’s all they put in. Setting things up for character development in future seasons? Bah, humbug. The same goes for the eruption of mt Doom. They want the eruption cgi. The writing takes the story there in a few easy steps. Actually set up as long ago as episode3. You remember all the weird tunnels and ditches that the orcs were making that made no damn sense to anyone? Yeah, well shame on you because we just made up an explanation for all that and now we’re pretending it was actually a canal system all along! They wanted the dramatic moment when Saurons sword goes into the altar and triggers the big magic. And then something-something and: volcano! All the writing in this show is like this.

[@adrianbardan782]

the volcano was the best character in this show. 💯the way it ended the insufferable elf was the biggest payoff! 🥳

[@Perry_Wolf]

It's worse than that. This idiocy is actually planned. I heard somewhere that when they brought this show to the table they had 50 episodes outlined already. So no, they're not thoughtless writers, which might be forgivable, but no, their just stupid.

[@danguillou713]

@@Perry_Wolf I know they say that. But them saying it ain't mean it's so. I am absolutely convinced that their great plan for the whole 50 episodes is a couple of bar napkins with lots of concepts, arrows and TBDs. I mean, look at that ominous Sauron sigil. Do you seriously think they had already decided what that was gonna mean when they carved it into Finrod and stamped it into Saurons northern workshop? Hell no. When they wrote episode 1 they just thought it would be cool if Sauron left a kinda supervillain calling card at his crimes, because that's a thing that supervillains do. Big mystery box: what does it mean? Inside the box: TBD. Once they decided what it was actually gonna be (writing episode 3), did they go back and adjust their earlier work to line up with the explanation they had come up with. Nope. They just left the writing in episode 1 as it was. Galadriel is getting an arc, now, because no one can stand her and she needs to be fixed. But they didn't plan to make her everybodys Public Enemy Nr 1. They thought the audience was gonna love her. Go back and look how they write other characters and events in contact with her constant jerkassery - the script assumes everyone will be like "wow, that's so cool!". So no, I don't think they've got this thing planned out. I think they're full of shit and making it up as they go along. As the hacks they are.

[@mariusionita266]

I like how everyone had such grand theories for the sword, 'oooh, it's a Morgul blade, Theo will be a nazgul!', 'ooh it's Sauron's sword!', 'ooh it's one of the swords made of dark iron, lost in the First Age!'. And then the sad, pathetic reality came crashing down: nah mate, it's just the key to some dam to start-up Mordor (TM), lmao. They also gave the damn thing addictive properties like the One Ring, to remind us who they're ripping off (memba LOTR? Oh you memba).

[@danguillou713]

@@mariusionita266 Heh. Yeah. Memberberries and mysteryboxes. The intention, as far as I understand it, is to create speculation among the fans outside the show. If it does that, its purpose is fulfilled and it doesn’t actually need to fill any further narrative function, or make sense after the reveal. Like the way they intentionally write Halbrand with hints that he might be Sauron in one scene and clues that he might not in the next. That mystery is completely artificial, because either way the alternative will be completely uninteresting once they pop the big reveal. And going back and thinking carefully, all the little hints won’t make sense in retrospect. They’re just put in as speculation bait.

[@BigIslandBound]

They must have taken the long way around because they do their full charge with the sunrise at their back meaning they were traveling west and not east. Un-freaking-believable

[@Syaniiti]

When time nor logic nor logistics have no meaning you can take all the time you need.

[@colinmyers9200]

i actually facepalmed for that scene.. you dont even have to understand middle earth at all outside of the show to understand whats wrong there.

[@AJHodgeIV]

Cutting the scene where they landed also screwed up the continuity of the episode. How did they know this town was under siege? Why were they at full gallop towards it? You couldn't spare some time to show the Numenoreans making landfall, setting up a camp, and maybe having a scout note the orc movements before just jumping into a full charge? Nah, it's not important, gotta spend 4 minutes on a cheap CW-level death fakeout!

[@adrianbardan782]

sorry, they already spent all the budget to leave Numenor twice, for two whole episodes. a billion dollars can only stretch so far. 😳

[@jrconway3]

@@adrianbardan782 "leaving Numenor twice" Exactly. Cut out the second one which had garbage training sequences anyway. Have them already be sailing at that point. Then in this episode show them starting to explore the Southlands finding ruined villages after ruined villages, leading them in the direction of where everyone was congregating. Because you skipped the training that made the soldiers look incompetent you can go straight into them being actual competent fighters.

[@guygadbois3010]

They haven't got around to explaining whose voice Isuldur heard call his name in the earlier episode either, lol. I suspect our friend Isuldur has the wrong demographics to get the show's full attention. In your review of episode six I hope you touch up on something I'm honestly baffled by - who built a dam up in the mountains that works with a blood-activated sword key? Since its Sauron's sword that activates, presumably they were baddies, but to what purpose was it built? I can't think of a reason for it that doesn't sound a bit silly.

[@Perry_Wolf]

That's obvious....Sauron, disguised as a simple laborer, slipped in with the work crews and somehow convinced his supervisor that to control the sluice gate, instead of a simple lever or mechanical geared system, it would be super cool to build a complex magical sword key mechanism, you know, for safety, so someone wouldn't accidentally open it. Then snuck the sword out that night when his work buddies and he went to the tavern. There, for a few coppers, he pays the bartender to keep the sword safe for him to use at a much later date...

[@swesimon3925]

The Dam was probably builded by the first men who sided with Melkor/Morgoth. The Elvs just occupied it for the strategic position after the war of wrath.

[@Syaniiti]

Because Elves don't really mind things built by the forces of the dark... Especially when they're built to fall upon the breaking of a single rope. Really lucky that the orcs don't ever seem to carry weapons, otherwise they would've made that tower fall when the elves captured it.

[@hansoerteras3983]

@@swesimon3925 There are reasons to build a dam. But why there? Water rationing for the humans in the valley? Why would you need a swordkey to destroy it? Have the builders planned this whole thing a thousand years before? Why would anyone build a dam and at the same time build a magic key to destroy it? How can Elves live 70 years in a tower that falls apart if you cut a rope? They had the time to make their home a bit more safe. Nothing of it makes any sense.

[@johnglue1744]

Not to mention the same builders built a tower held together by ropes and tension tightened straps.

[@EchoASMRtist]

It really blows my mind how incompetent the writers are for such a HUGE show.

[@MaxxMcGeePrivate]

It blows my mind that they hired people with no credits for the most expensive TV show ever. The incompetent people are even higher up the hierarchy.

[@EchoASMRtist]

@@MaxxMcGeePrivate 100%

[@Smallpotato1965]

'Incompetence'? Naw, if certain things happen over and over again, it's not a flaw, it's a feature.

[@Strideo1]

Tolkien's works are so well thought out and meticulously detailed and it's astounding just how badly this show just doesn't seem to care about or pay much attention at all to the details. I don't expect the same level of excellence but I would expect there to at least be a reasonable attempt to try and pay attention to the details.

[@katraapplesauce1203]

@@Strideo1 They do though, maybe you just dont notice them? The script and show has been approved by Tolkien estate and society. Perhaps spending more time trying to see all the details and appreciating the show the way it is rather than trying to compare it to P.Js Lotr or complaining that its against lore or doesnt respect lore (again, tolkien estate and society beg to differ) would allow you to see the details you claim are not there? This feels a complaint very reminiscent of the Star wars Sequels and boiii, let me tell you how many time i saw people make this point just to be utterly wrong there, too.

[@ozymandiascakehole3586]

speaking of villeneux's dune, he also made a big deal of paul stepping into the desert the first time.

[@JSEITSONEN]

You really can´t compare important film director like Villeneuve to these people. Given their credentials before arriving to helm project like ROP. What Amazon was thinking ?

[@rhysproudmourne1646]

Shout out to you sir for understanding why that scene is good where most reviewers didn’t in your synopsis of Dune. It’s significant because Paul becomes a man in this scene and it’s the place where the story takes it’s turn.

[@tommys984]

They simply did not want to have a scene that features a Man, as it would somehow detract from Galadriel’s story.

[@lotsofspots]

Very likely they'll have Isildur found Minas Tirith instead, as people will remember that city from the movies, and they don't seem to have Anárion at all.

[@avermanbramblebuck5220]

Personally I think audiences will also be able to remember the ruins of Osgiliath and I can't imagine they will stray so far from material in the Appendix which they have full rights to use. You may be right about Anorian, it would be a understandable change, but it would be a shame.

[@harvain731]

Anarion also sounds like he is the older Brother in Rings of Power, which Tolkien originally was going to do. They might have Isildur found Gondor on his own, with the Tower of the Sun, Tower of the Moon and Osgiliath all being 100% his. As for one thing, the area which Minas Ithil or Minas Morgul would be at is only truly important once Minas Ithil is built as not only is it guarding one of the entrances into/out of Mordor it was also very beautiful especially with the Sapling of the White Tree being planted there by Isildur. I personally wasn't too bothered by not showing off the pass although the lack of Travel Sequences is hurting the Rings of Power. They easily could have had a scene lasting 1 minute, with Isildur looking at that general area and him "staring" as if something was letting him know that spot was important but the time for it's importance has not come. Then just have his 2 friends draw his attention and he starts moving again, before glancing back over his shoulder towards the spot.

[@roger5585]

The showrunners are focusing on all the wrong details which causes them to miss a whole bunch of important ones.

[@pyramidus]

Sadly in this monstrous show it was more important for the “women” to arrive in places. That’s all the showrunners care for. Sigh. Fyi I am a woman and I hate this condescending narrative. I don’t need no artificial female heroes in my life. I want Tolkien’s world.

[@uenolane]

Agreed! Same here. Seeing the riding scene with galadriel at the front made me laugh out loud because it's so painfully obvious they're trying to portray her as superior to every warrior (emphasis on the "male" warrior) on that field, even though she's riding a horse like any other rider. While doing so, the scene and consequently the show makes no sense, except that they're going for the "badass aesthetic" with no underlying meaning.

[@nolster1]

Yes, like why did the Queen go on this little adventure? They didn't think they had enough girl power? All she did was wear a ridiculous helmet and send a stable boy, alone, into battle. And it was nice of the Numenoreans to breed one white horse for Galadriel and equip it with custom blue armor.

[@uenolane]

@@nolster1 I actually prefer that they didn't have the queen fighting, because that would've been even worse but the armor was really ridiculous. The overall consequence of events is just odd and doesn't feel natural, but then again nothing with this show does feel natural really. The white horse! I didn't even think about that haha well, one more thing to prove they only care about aesthetic, not the storyline.

[@nolster1]

@@uenolane Yes, her armor was ridiculous, the crazy sun helmet and the cloth sleeves with the printed armor scales. My question was just why was it so necessary for the queen to travel with a few hundred soldiers, halfway around the world to save a tiny village from orcs? Other than to send a stable boy into battle and congratulate another strong woman, what did she do? Any ordinary soldier could have done the same perfectly well... and may not have been blinded by a few flying embers.

[@uenolane]

@@nolster1 they totally ignored the purpose of the armour, as if the most important thing is for it to look pretty. I think they wanted to have her the "coordinator" of the battle but never showed any of the actual planning or any work on her part. What I don't get is, that she doesn't have any generals. Any commanders who are in charge of the attack? Any group responsible for battle plans? It makes no sense, why she was there and without any purpose. To simply wait for the outcome and run away like a coward if the plan fails?...basically aesthetic over reason, hoping the glitter will blind the audience enough to not notice the abundance of shortcomings

[@manos7958]

Actually they don't even land on Osgiliath. The map that they have on the ship, shows a tributary of the river that leads straight into the mountains where Minas Morgul is located on your map. (Your map clearly needs a security update in order to fix some visual bugs) :D So, the show has Queen Regent pointing out with the magnifying glass on the map, that they skip Osgiliath and Minas Morgul and just have to do a cavalry rush down the mountains. They are in a hurry after all, they have a pressing appointment to save the village from the orcs.

[@sirbooksage]

Yep, apparently the show has the "real" map of Middle-earth, not that out of date one Tolkien drew. 🙂

[@hansoerteras3983]

If they showed the numenoreans make landfall it would become apparent that this army would ever fit into this boats. And they used a crane to lift the horses onto the ship, i guess nobody invented the ramp yet. I understand why this scene could´ve been great, but it would require a level of skill on the writers side that is aparently non-existent.

[@gerisaccomanno7422]

Udun is also another name for Utumno, Melkor's first fortress, roughly translated as "Hell"

[@ghostlightx9005]

"You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn." ~ Gandalf

[@JSEITSONEN]

Utumno first comes to mind to me also. As this story is supposed to happen in the second age and freguently mentions Melkor / Morgoth and even shows remains of parts of Angband.

[@koyaanisqatsi2855]

Isildus will not be the king. Some strong female will take over. You still believe they are following the book and the lore. His sister will take over.

[@adrianbardan782]

👑slay queeen! 👑

[@MaxxMcGeePrivate]

Short answer: The showrunners are completely clueless.

[@daffy72]

I for one am glad they spent time showing gratuitous Gore pouring out of an eye wound into a character's face rather then this fateful moment.

[@-VexingVekhs-]

I saw the first couple of episodes of this show and was like… okay, I’ll give it a chance. After though, wow… it is a good fanfiction though.

[@kamilswiergula6339]

Good video overall, just missed some information that I'd like to add: - The Black Gate wasn't built by Sauron as it was built to keep the orks locked in Mordor, - Minas Morgul would indeed be a great acess point for Numenor. Only much later Minas Ithil was but there to guard Ithilien, the city was later taken over by Sauron and turned into seat of the Witchking. Only then the name was changed into Minas Morgul. Both these things back the rule that evil cannot create anything new, but only twist and corrupt. The incompetence in this series taught me one thing: I am never surprised by awful contradictions they installed in it. Now it's just boring...

[@sirbooksage]

Where is this claim that Sauron didn't build the Black Gate coming from? I've seen a few people say this recently. Sauron built the Black Gate in the Second Age to guard the northern entrance into Mordor. After his fall when Isildur cut the ring from his hand the Numenoreans of Gondor took control of the Black Gate and they built the Towers of the Teeth, a tower at each end of the Black Gate and guarded it for a long time until the great plague of the Third Age reduced their numbers.

[@kamilswiergula6339]

@@sirbooksage Thank you for responding! I think that was said in Silmarillion, however it's been some years since I read it. It might be right that only the towers were built, that'd have to be checked, and arguing over such details would be the last thing I want to do, I only felt these details were missing (or one, assuming my memory didn't serve me). As a general note I should have made in the first comment, I don't think they forgot, I find their writing simply incompetent. Just watched the final episode yesterday and I wasn't even disappointed, that became my habit now, at least we all have 2 years to recover now

[@timmy1071]

The way the writers are approaching this show they would never ever do something like this.

[@belegur8108]

hi, i think the show points more to Udûn meaning "hell" in Sindarin, then on the valley in NW Mordor... also Udûn was the first keep of Morgoth, up in the north in the FA

[@gorazdvahen492]

Faced with all actual failures and incompetences of this show, our first fears when we saw the teasers became laughable.

[@occupywallets9096]

Makes me want to watch the Peter Jackson trilogy for the millionth time! LOL...

[@SeanRCope]

This severely restricted adaptation is made, rather must be made for everyone. That means heavy content specifically included for children. Saying that what’s really important, at least to me is bringing more people to Tolkien. Remember the days when we only had cartoons?

[@wendyb3713]

The people making this show don't care about any of that stuff. They're telling a story complely unrelated to Tolkien.

[@PXCharon]

This entire show seems to have forgotten that Isildur MUST do certain things in the future. But it's okay, they can tease his death a few more times and try to make us worry....

[@coreyshaffer1720]

I thought it was a nice moment him looking out at the sunrise and finding it to be so beautiful and full of promise. The land that will be his.

[@jaypeadieL611]

Anyone else noticed how the dark dwarf wife was basically being a devil's advocate to her husband whispering temptations of usurping the throne.

[@majkus]

The writers seem downright confused (or, just as badly, are writing confusingly) about Isildur and his motivations and destination. Much of the blame lies with Peter Jackson, who reduced Isildur to being dyspeptic-Elrond's poster-boy for the weakness of Men, with a flashback to Isildur sneeringly refusing to pot the Ring. This was in service to Jackson's reluctant-king arc for Aragorn: "The same blood flows in my veins. The same weakness." At the time, it passed almost unremarked because Isildur was a very minor character. The fact that no one-not Isildur, not Elrond, not Frodo-could have voluntarily destroyed the Ring is ignored. But now we have an audience, and perhaps writers, who see Isildur's destination not as the hero who rescues the White Tree and builds Minas Ithil (and I am betting they transfer both feats to his invented sister the builder) and founds a dynasty, but as someone whose personal resolve and moral courage are always in question.

[@charlesstanford1310]

Good insight. Further proof that the show's writers are building on the wrong foundations.

[@officiallyjan8596]

I completely disagree with attributing this issue to Jackson, we saw men as great as Boromir fall to the ring's seduction within days just from being *near* it and he knew fully well what it did. Isildur being seduced within an hour of actively holding it in his hand is not a sign of great weakness, Gollum killed his own brother for it after barely a minute in the same situation. The idea of Isildur being particularly "weak" to the ring is just Aragorn doubting how fit he himself is to rule. Jackson may have only shown Isildur at his worst, but he laid down more than enough surrounding context to make it clear that it was less about Isildur being weak or corrupt and more that the ring is simply that powerful and insidious. It's not Jackson's fault that some rock-eating morons didn't understand that and then happened to get the rights to produce their own garbage billion-dollar-budget fanfic based off their own misunderstandings of the source materials.

[@mariolafrance5806]

@@officiallyjan8596 I agree. I presume that the show runners will eventually change his personnality turning him into a strong character and become a great king. He is one of the Argonath, isn't it ???

[@Kaizuk0hakupac]

AGREED! went over their head.

[@madmartigan8119]

My guess is they didn't even realize it because they are just looking for pieces to fit there story to get them to the end goal. There not looking at it from a love of the world. That's my guess

[@BurkeTrue2]

"I imagine they probably will at some point"... you can certainly imagine it.

[@vikkio92]

Beautifully said! The sheer stupidity of this show is staggering. A silly CW-esque show about teenage fairies aimed at teenagers like the Winx saga is somehow infinitely better written and executed than this waste of $1bn. Absolutely shocking.

[@kenbarnett4356]

i thought the same thing.. at this point there are so many bad choices.. it makes me cringe to think someone got paid to make this.. it feels like a univiristy project made by first years who all sat around and thought.. "hey guy we like lord of the rings movies right! ,, lets make a project based on the movies... " then one of them said "oh i have only read the books.." the one who runs the group says "oh no problem let me know when you watch the movies.. i never even knew it was a book.. hahahahahaha!

[@ipaporod]

Not Orc, Uruk!.Adar was very emphatic about it.

[@jesseerven4859]

They simply did not want to give enough info to the viewer in the hopes they can drum up more people talking about it as well as surprise them or they just didnt think

[@vycanismajoris5501]

let me explain. this isnt isildur, its isil.

[@ThePoushal]

That helps for coping😢. Tolkien lifework being butchered for the gain of greedy grandchildren

[@Syaniiti]

I prefer Izzy.

[@blkluster1986]

The Black Gate was built by the Numenorians to keep the Orcs in. The orcs later under Sauron's guidance, built the Towers of Teeth.

[@Strideo1]

You are standing underneath the towers of the teeth, And the eye blazes red! Win the battle, lose the war, Choice of evils lie before your feet. Retreat! retreat! retreat!

[@sirbooksage]

Sauron built the Black Gate in the Second Age. Gondor took control of it after the War of the Last Alliance and built the Towers of the Teeth.

[@bryanmejia1844]

@@Strideo1 another excellent Orc tune! Topped in the charts only by “Where there’s a Whip”- when they REALLY drop the funk 👍🏼

[@Strideo1]

@@bryanmejia1844 Those orcs had such lovely baritone voices too!

[@cinephileworld9551]

Udûn can mean "Hell" to the Orcs. I have not seen Rings of power. I avoid the show, being a bit of a purist, but the Orcs chanting "Udûn" as a volcano erupts could be considered O.K. The thing about Tolkien's world is the the names come from language, with meanings associated. They are not just place names.

[@majkus]

But Udûn is just the Sindarin equivalent to Utumno. The Orcs should be chanting in Black Speech in the Amazoniverse, where the Black Speech is already universal among the Orcs before Sauron returns to power. They chant in Black Speech at all other times (except for chanting Adar's inexplicably Sindarin name).

[@cinephileworld9551]

@@majkus I don't think so. In my view if Mordor does not yet exist then nor should black speech. My understanding is that Sauron created it as a unifying language for Mordor. I have not seen the series, so do not know what everybody speaks. But if what you say is true, that the Orcs have been speaking black speech up to this point, I would take more of an issue with that. Then again black speech has so little info that it would be difficult to say what is or is not the language. I imagine that during this time Orcs would have no unifying language (hence why Sauron invented black speech) and would borrow terms from others languages with various dialects etc. Hence to me it seems acceptable they use the term Udûn (or at least a group of them do). But from what I hear about the series this is just me being pedantic, there seem to be much more serious issues.

[@alexkaen1701]

The writers couldn't honor Isildur here because he's missing something important, an XX chromosome. Girls rule and boys drool, the maxim for Rings of Power

[@daroganwr421]

Udun is also the name of Morgoth's old fortress, which would make more sense for the Orcs chanting.

[@Syaniiti]

The Golden Path, which Paul refused to follow but Leto II did. Ending the book series after God Emperor of Dune is a good spot, personally didn't really like Heretics or Chapterhouse. On to RoP: the show fails at essentially every aspect of storytelling in addition to not being related to the works of Tolkien in anything but the names of some characters so them missing something to do with storytelling is not really surprising. Remember that the army had the morning sun at their back when they charged into the village, meaning the approached from the east, not from west where they landed. And they rode at full speed for presumably hundreds of miles because Not-Sauron saw some orcs in a specific location months ago. Or possibly hours ago since traveling takes apparently no time what so ever in this middle-earth, really weird how Frodo didn't just teleport to Mount Doom to destroy the ring since the technology is apparently available and has been from the second age at least.

[@yorktown99]

So, having watched the rest of Season 1, I think that I finally have a grasp of what the show is trying to do. "Rings Of Power" is structured in such a way as to try and keep the audience guessing as much as possible. The showrunners think that they have a problem: the outline of events for the 2nd Age of Middle Earth is knowable ahead of time. Even if you factor in the element of time compression, there isn't much to surprise the audience with. The only problem with this is that the showrunners think that it's a problem. Alfred Hitchcock once pointed out that merely surprising the audience does nothing to create any suspense or emotional investment in the story. Once the reveal is made, people move on. Like Chekhov, you have to show the audience the stakes right away: they see the gun and know that it will go off, but you are going to force the audience to wait for it!

[@MarkArandjus]

Well, I thought the black gate was somewhere else this whole time (somewhere along the western mountains), thanks for clearing that up!

[@davesworld7961]

Every time I see these thumbnails I think it's the stranger.

[@kulusjibbie]

I think it comes down to your last point on the lack of world building. That moment of isildur talking to his father would have been perfect in the context you just presented, but somehow the writers fail to see this. Thousands of years they had to fill with stories and they choose to compress it all. I do feel however that people are starting to nitpick the show because the overal negative vibe. For example there is allot of hate at the Galadriel and the horse salto scene. But to be honest I do recall scenes with legolas that were the same or worse then that. Skateboarding of a stairs on a shield... it’s important to stay objective in the mids of this negative vibes. Thanks again for your sobering and true opinions.

[@hansoerteras3983]

It´s not about objectivity. Never met anyone who liked the Legolas scene. Lotr has a few silly scenes in an otherwise masterpiece, so it can be overlooked. RoP is just a mess, there is so much to critcize that every stupid scene just makes the point clearer. The whole Galadriel scene was silly, but not even really noteworthy between all the other failures.

[@harvain731]

The Peter Jackson Movies did have moments that it didn't need to do but it also didn't over use them. Slow motion moments were only used at key moments, not multiple times within a quick span. Arguably the only character who did things that were fairly crazy was Legolas and this basically being a way to show he was "an Elf". Rings of Power is just overusing many things and just doesn't have a clear concept about itself. World Building, Story Telling, Pacing, Dialogue, Travel Sequences, Combat Sequences, smaller details for how moments move from one to the next, and so on.

[@NovelPhoinix]

@@hansoerteras3983 Actually i liked the skateboarding scene! For me (like in the mountains where legolas walks over snow) it emphasizes how agile and lightfooted elves are. The Galadriel scene on the other hand does neither of that, and is only there to look cool (which it doesn't) and not to establish anything about the character or race! I actually liked the sword catapult scene from episode 1 more because it shows a level of discipline and agility among the elves (even if the scene itself was shot horrendously)! And atleast Legolas was wearing light clothing and not chainmail and armor like galadriel in her scenes.

[@hansoerteras3983]

@@NovelPhoinix My problem with the scene is that is makes no sense. The Oliphaunt scene f.e. is unnecessary to me, but at least its possible and shows what you describe. When a man can walk a rope over a canyon, an elf can slide down an elephant nose. But the shield scene is just HOW? Because thats not athletism or balance or light feed, it pure magic the way the shield behaves. But it doesn´t matter, because a few seconds later the battle goes on and so do you and its awesome and so who cares. If you enjoy the scene, that´s good for you, nothing bad about that. RoP on the other hand is just. You know what, i dont even wanna even talk about it anymore.

[@shehassee]

The best we get is him saying, I like the mountains.

[@Rogun987]

And the sense of scale is so diminished in middle earth. They open the flood gates and about 45 seconds later the water reaches Mt Doom. They would have had quite a long time to flee the area before any water reached it. I think they just wanted to mimic flooding sarumans tower.

[@MentalParadox]

Wow, your subscriber number and views per video just went through the roof the past twee weeks. Congrats on 1,5K! In a way though, it's tragic the content about actual books gets such low engagement, and it takes videos on hot pop-cultural topics like RoP to get some decent views. About the actual subject, I agree. They have soooo many opportunities with this show, and they're neglecting them to focus on far less interesting subplots. They have payoffs with hardly any setup, and setup but with the payoff missing.

[@DVSnark]

I swear this series was written by people who have never gone on a hike.

[@lotzofboldts]

I watched 9 minutes into this video thinking it was going to be something super important and it’s just a clip of Isildur on a boat that he wants in the show 😂

[@TwoMenandaCanoe]

Great video. I agree with you. They are missing many important parts. I am watching the show. I am wanting to like it. I am happy that many people do like it. But I am very disappointed with the writing. The writers seem to be more interested in creating mystery boxes than telling a good cohesive story.

[@Danlovar]

This show is making you SEE and THINK. I would be more careful next time.

[@Jagonath]

Great points. Ironically enough though, Game of Thrones never showed Dany arriving at Westeros either. But they did make a huge deal of her fleet leaving Esos.

[@sirbooksage]

Dragonstone, while an island off the shore, is considered part of Westeros, and was the first place the Targaryen's came to from Valyria. They showed Dany coming ashore and kneeling to place her hand upon its sands at the end of Season 8 Episode 1.

[@matthewstone1362]

All these figures of myth and legend. Beings of might and power. Capable of defeating a valar. Given gifts from the gods. Yet you could bump into them in a local GAP shop.

[@TrippyTheShroom]

Very well said, Rings of Power has massively frustrated me as a Tolkien fanboy. The show clearly wasn't written for people like me (us).

[@ikmor]

I get the feeling that this show is not about giving the fan of Tolkiens work and world a visual version of what the books tells us in words. Not about standing there next to us in total awe, looking upon the grandeur of events and places, or "nerdingly" examining close the details of this fantasy, giving the feeling to the viewer that we are THERE. This show is about anything the writers want, and they don't seem to have a plan. They are not Tolkien nerds, they are just interested in showing us THEIR characters, all made up by them. Mystery boxes, missed opportunities showing us the wonder of the world and enormous key elements and scenes (like this episode 6 one), plot armor, unbelievable feats by protagonists, idiotic decisions the characters would never make, weeks upon months of travels shortened down to a minute of walking. It's just... Unbelievable, how bad this is handled. This show should have the guts to have entire episodes being about JUST the travel from point A to point B. It would be so much more interesting, having the story be about characters, feelings, and a sense of wonder. And I say "guts" because it means the show had to slow down, no matter what the writers think that TWITTER will cry and scream about that decision. I saw a movie yesterday (Possessor) and two scenes in it has the person we follow basically just standing still in front of a mirror, smiling, then crying, and the pure nudity of the character in front of us.. those 30 second scenes, offer more feeling, and more connection to someone, as it turned the character into a human being and a person, than the whole show of Rings of Power. Baffling.

[@DaddyDumptruckDeluxe]

Your new name should be SirBookSaVage 😉 I’m only joking, great points though, truly, well put. Great Dune comparison!

[@sjmarlowgm]

This makes total sense to me. Amazon doesn't care at all about Tolkien's lore. They are creating a glorified video game for people with the attention span of a goldfish.

[@bucky7162]

Good point! This is just more proof that the writes have absolutely no clue about the source material. They are literally abusing the name The Lord of the Rings for money and nothing else.

[@TheAmethyz]

Maybe they are saving that moment for second season where Isildur propably is found by the horse like Aragorn and then he rides to that river where Osgiliath will be and thats when they show it

[@Bamiar1789]

Ehhh, I don't know if we needed to see that response from Isildur in that specific moment, before the creation of Mordor. That land would plausibly have a lot more significance to him when he escapes to it in Season 2 and when the need for a base of operations there has actually manifested.

[@MagusMarquillin]

They did kind of cover this character beat with him looking for Middle Earth's coastline during the sunrise. It might not be as specific as to where his home will be, but I think it does what you're describing.

[@charleslaine]

It's because this show is bullcrap. Isildur isn't a female so it doesn't matter. But regardless, all of this is alternate universe fan-fiction. It's not canon. Mordor wasn't created by a stupid damn breach.

[@sandorsbox]

This is The Galadriel Show. At what point did you fall under the impression that the showrunners gave a damn avout the source material?

[@chrisnagy377]

There was no time, we have to fit in 40 minutes of slow mo horse riding and pursed-lipped glancing!

[@Smallpotato1965]

Oh, I know why, but to explain it would take some serious time, so I will just say that if you know things about postmodernist philosophy (even though it hardly warrants the nomiker 'philosophy', imho) things will suddenly make sense. The short answer is that postmodernists believe that there is no such thing as 'truth', only 'narratives', and that everyone wants only one thing: power. So, they argue, those who are in power will tell the narrative that keeps them in power, and in order to gain power yourself, you have to break that narrative. Jaques Derrida, for instance, coined the prhase 'phallogocentrism', from 'phallus', the male organ, 'logos', meaning words or speech and 'centrism'. According to Derrida it refers to the privileging of the masculine in the construction of meaning. You might ask what all this has to do with Tolkien, and as I've said, it's a complex thing, because Postmodernism is also at the root of all kinds of other things like Intersectionality and has things like Marxism at its root, so it's a whole boatload to unpack. Suffice to say that a Postmodernist would look at Tolkien's story of Isildur and see only a phallogocentrist narrative about a White Cisgender Male, and a priviliged one of that (son of a King, after all) whose actions only serve to keep White Cisgender Males in power, and so needs to be taken down a notch. Bronwen, however, a Single Mother in a Mixed Race affair, needs to be shown heroically suffering with an arrow in her shoulder for ten minutes because Power needs to be taken from Isildur and given to Bronwen. I mean, have you seen the armor the Numenorian men are wearing? The worst dad-bod, man-boob, soy-boy armour EVER designed, and NOT by accident. This was intentional. Just like it's intentional that Galadriel, a wise, feminime queen reminiscent of Mother Mary just HAS to be deconstructed into some pathologically evil warrior chick whose only delight is in killing orcs and taking down the Patriarchy. Or that Halbrand is apparantly Sauron, because I can assure you they will absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Sauron is a Maiar and thus a kind of angel (because that would smack of Christianity and Christianity is phalogocentrism to the hilt). And of *course* the hobbits, er.. harfoots, *have* to be portrayed as cruel psycho's because Tolkien wrote them as the embodiment of Englishness and y'know, 'the Evuhls of the British Empire' (according to Postmodernists, of course, not according to actual truth, but then again, Postmodernists don't even *believe* in truth, only in the Narrative).

[@rursus8354]

Udûn, by the way, is a Sindarin variant of Utumno, meaning "Hell". So the Orchs are chanting Elvish.

[@JackChurchill101]

Good point - I missed that myself, amongst all the noise of the flawed logic in the episode. The writers honestly care so little for the lore that I seriously doubt Isildur will build Minas Ithill. I think they will just skip the enitre backstory of Gondor and have Elendil and Isildur reach out to Gil Galad, where they will immediately join forces and March to Mordor... The realm of Arnor will be completely skipped also.

[@adrianbardan782]

one mustn't detract from all female agency in the Rings of Girl Power, precious. 🙄the story of middle-earth and the womens that built it. 😵‍💫

[@beerasaurus]

Perhaps ignoring the tolkien experts on set to the point they walked was a bad idea.

[@BernardLangham]

the show doesn't really have kings in the Tolkinien sense. it has morally grey politicians. so no, they wouldn't celebrate or underline the rise of a royal house, because that's not how you do 21st century allegory.

[@user-ks5cg5cd7m]

ROP made Isildur look like such an idiot. He demonstrated no abilities whatsoever. I could not imagine the ROP version of Isildur actually being a competent soldier let alone building and ruling a city.

[@IcarusRepublique]

Tolkien is one of the original godfather of fantasy, nerd and geek culture. Imagine a fantasy video game or literature now where there are no Dwarves or Elves. We have alot to thank for his contribution to our culture. Amazon has no respect for the works of Tolkein whatsoever, they literally just wanted to ride the bandwagon of Game of Thrones to sell Prime.

[@echobucket]

I feel like this is just one of those things that was left out for time/budget reasons. This show is already pretty expensive. I do think they could have inserted a traveling map thing like they did with the Harfoots though to explain the Numenoreans landing and travel. However if they did that, you would lose the "surprise" moment where they show up to save the village...

[@echobucket]

Also I feel like this might be handled in Season 2, since Islidur is "lost". I do think there's gonna be a pay off for middle earth calling to him.

[@jeremiahjudeestaniel5917]

Thank you for pointing this out, this show continues to disappoint.

[@tykehotep2865]

I have a question unrelated to this show, I was recommended a pair of books which I bought not touched them called the children of time and the children of ruin. And as you seem like well read Sci-fi enthusiast (don't like the word fan lol) I was wondering if you have read them and if so are they worth the effort. Even though it a bit late now as I already bought them I am curious as to others opinions because I have a load of other unread books and these can wait if they are a bit lack lustre thanks

[@sirbooksage]

I haven't read those books yet but they're definitely on my 2023 reading list. The third book in that series is due out in November I think. A few of my online booktube friends whose opinion I regard really enjoyed the first one and liked the second one.

[@tom_curtis]

First, you have IMO two mistaken assumptions. The first is that the ships would debark at the future site of Osgiliath; however, it would be far more likely that they debark at Pelargir - but were they to sail upstream in unoared ships, the river would likely still be navigable as far as Cair Andros (from which they also have the minimal land distance to travel to Tir Harad). The second is that they would even know about the pass of Cirith Ungol. This is unknown land to all of them, and known by repute only to Galadriel and Halbrand. Ergo they are unlikely to have known of what is actually quite a difficult pass. Further, any who did actually know of it would likely also know of it as the residence of Shelob, who by the time of the show would have taken up residence there. Ergo it is far more likely that they would have gone north and come into Mordor proper via Udun, or even circle around the Mountains of Shadow and come up from the south than that they should go through past the Sea of Nurnen than that they should go through Cirith Ungol. (I know that route would take much more than a day to traverse, but all the potential routes would take much more than a day to traverse - so I don't think that is consequential.) The second point is that absent a specific story reason to show the disembarkation, there is little to identify the land being shown as the later heart of the Kingdom of Gondor. Only dedicated LoTR fans would recognize the landscape; and even most of those would likely miss the point absent actual (and plot irrelevant) titles. Third, they clearly have in mind some heroics for Isildur in Mordor in the next season[s], but at the end of the show they leave him apparently dead. Foreshadowing his future realm would destroy any suspense for those not already immersed deeply into Tolkien lore that they gain by that. Given all this, I doubt that the moment you long for would have indeed enhanced the show.

[@sirbooksage]

Miriel and Elendil were looking at the map they had of Middle-earth onboard the Numenorean ship. If you look at the map the show used, they added an offshoot from the river Anduin to add a water route into the mountains that doesn't exist on the Middle-earth maps in the books. Miriel follows that route on the map in the scene with the magnifier, showing the viewer the route they are going to take. The Rings of Power Isildur was hearing magical voices coming out of the West earlier in the season so it would be fitting with this version of him to have him feel something odd when he steps upon Middle-earth soil for the first time, especially it it's at the place where he later builds the first city of the kingdom of Gondor. Showing Isildur arriving at what will be the heart of his future kingdom would mean nothing to the character at that moment, other than perhaps an odd feeling, but it would mean a lot those of us who have been reading these stories all our lives, and would become a nice foreshadowing that only gets noticed on a rewatch by the people who've never read any of Tolkien's stories. Considering the massive changes this show is making to Numenorean events as it is, using the opportunity of these changes to put in a moment like that for the readers would have been a nice touch. But story, and its enjoyment, is a very subjective thing indeed.

[@neilgoldsmith482]

In all my years of Tolken, This will be I will be rooting for Sauron over Galadriel. (Hallbrand is my favorite Character.

[@solring5721]

I know I'm a bit late to this video, but the Oath of Elendil is also missed with the cutting of this scene. It was actually something I was hoping to see, but it's not even there. To those who don't know, the Oath of Elendil is the first words spoken by Numenorians on Middle Earth. Elendil is the first to disembark and touch the shores of Middle Earth. Elendil takes an Oath in Quenya, proclaiming his sadness and the hardship he endured to leave Numenor. Despite his hardship, he is hopeful for the future of his people and his descendants in Middle Earth. He swears that he and his heirs will abide in this place until the ending of the World. This Oath is the same speech that Aragorn gives during his coronation, upholding the Oath of his Ancestor, the same ancestor he names as a battle cry as his Oath give him power to endure. This show is the most disappointing mess I have ever seen produced, more then any other media that has destroyed that which I love. An absolute insult to that which is great.

[@sirbooksage]

Elendil's Oath is spoken by him when he arrives in Eriador in Middle-earth after the fall of Numenor in SA 3319. However, the Numenoreans first came to Middle-earth in SA 600 and established diplomatic friendship with Gil-galad, and returned once more to Middle-earth around SA 1200 when they begin to build settlements upon Middle-earth's western shores. So, Elendil will still most likely say his oath much later in the Rings of Power, whenever they get to Numenor's fall.

[@solring5721]

@@sirbooksage I suppose I should have brushed up on my history on the Fall of Numenor before making this comment. However, it's good that there's a chance that this scene will happen. At this rate though, I wouldn't be surprised if it didnt. Thank you for reading my comment and clarifying my mistake.

[@InterCity134]

This is another of the bits of evidence that the writers don’t have a clue about the fundamentals of Arda and how things happen over time. 1) the skipped arrival of the Númenóreans, who just magically appear at some spot on the middle of nowhere without any guidance of the need to be there - armed with equipment they had no way of having anticipated. 2) the behavior of a volcano in an non volcanic way - “that’s not how this works, that’s not now any of this works”. Magma lava water open chambers puroclastic flow - screw physics and known natural phenomena. Next gravity is backward and …. 3) the Balrog did not get awakened at that time. Not remotely close to when they are playing these events. This series is a fantasy series that uses Tolkien elements in it but makes up it own fiction on how and when, what happened. The harfoot journey - try following that on a map. Where the hell is this grove that it got pelted with stone from the eruption? Amazon, you f’ed it up! Jeezus the modern American movie industry personnel just cannot help but destroy and screw up every damn thing they touch. Just stop making anything. Take a decade off and fire everyone as they are incompetent. Let the rest of the world have a go (see RRR). Then in a decade maybe some fresh people start from the ground up. I don’t see by what miracle Andor managed to be made so brilliantly. Oh wait - they didn’t use much preexisting material. I sense a trend here. Let only actual fans touch preexisting material works. Maybe it’s that none of the good writers want to work on projects where they would be boxed in with the existing lore so that the only writers they can find are the D grade writers they now seem to employ on all of these types of works. Stop. Just stop.

[@JSEITSONEN]

I´m sorry about bringing PJ here, but as we all saw from LOTR extras they ( PJ, Philippa Boyens and Fran Walsh ) had complete understanding and knowledge of Tolkiens writings even from Silmarillion to LOTR. They really had immersed themselves to the world of Tolkien and had clear concept on where to follow Tolkien and where to use "creative freedom" on storytelling. I did not like all the changes, but at least they were able to provide some explanations and logic behind the changes they made. It never felt being isolated from the original story as much as ROP does all the time. I really do wonder, how these "showrunners" were able to pitch their take on Tolkien to Amazon. Amazon had Brian Sibley and Simon Tolkien around and this is what came out. So sad...

[@kevindenelsbeck7444]

I thought for sure you were working toward Shelob. They missed that too.

[@sirbooksage]

Yes, Shelob was probably watching from above as Galadriel and the Numenoreans passed by.

[@Lucklaran]

Doing what you said would give Isildur too much credit. After all, he's not the "Warrior Princess", he's not "I'm not Sauron", he's not "Get My Family Banished Because I'm Selfish", and he's not "Stubborn Men, Act Nice Or I'll Give You What For" or "Discount Legolas". Nope, he's the "Hopeless Loser That Will Fail With The Ring". He must be made incompetent, so his failure with the Ring makes sense. In their minds, anyway. Just as they are turning Galadriel into a psychopath NOW, so when Frodo offers her the Ring, she'll "think back to this time in her life and realize her having the Ring would be very bad". Then they can say, "See how brilliant we are? It all makes sense now! We fixed it! Now everyone understands why her having the Ring is bad! Because she knows it'll make her even worse than she is right now. NO applause, just throw money! Don't you all feel silly for doubting us?"

[@voidmantis9133]

they forget to show some people that should notice the eruption but that live outside of mordor .

[@WraithOfMan]

Two options: This is a show being written by a team selected for holding the "correct" opinions and knowing other "with it" people in the industry rather than for their talent, so there's the first possibility that it's simply their incompetence and disinterest in the background material they've got their claws on, or alternatively, due to said worldview (and the evidence of the treatment of other characters in this show), they actively chose not to give a significant male character an important moment because *that's the opposite of what their show is about*, and so the attention skips straight to the scene with Guy-lad-riel riding to the rescue of the brave characters of Diversity and Strong Independent Womanhood...